The Ben Mulroney Show - Political panel - Is the Brampton plant story a critical hit to the auto sector?

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate advisory .  Former vp WestJet Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank.

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The whole way? The whole way. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to this week in politics, the midweek panel with Andy Gibbons and Regan Watts. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. I hope you're having a great week thus far and I hope you had a happy Thanksgiving. All right. We've got a very serious story to talk about the fact that to Stalantis, I think, surprised a lot of people by saying they are shifting production of the Jeep Compass from Brampton down to Illinois. Now, before we talk about the seriousness, I do want to just add a moment of levity because I was looking at my Twitter feed and I saw somebody right. And this made me laugh, but it is serious, but it doesn't mean we can't laugh. Tune in tomorrow at 11 a.m. and watch Doug Ford bash a Jeep Compass with a bat for an hour.

That to me, that made me laugh. But now let's talk about the seriousness of it all. What does this mean, Regan Watts? Ben, I have to say, it's not really a surprise to me to see these types of announcements made. The Trump administration got elected on a mandate to bring back manufacturing. An auto assembly is something that is clearly near and dear to his heart. I suspect this was also no surprise to the government of Canada in the sense that I'm sure they were given a heads up a day or two or even a couple of weeks before.

That's typically how this occurs. It's unfortunate for the people of Brampton who were hoping to secure good-paying long-term jobs at that facility. But I think it should be a real splash of cold water for Canadians when they see this announcement. Whether you live in Ontario or Alberta or BC or Nova Scotia or Newfoundland, we are in a global race for capital and capital creates jobs. And with pressures like the Trump administration placing on the auto sector and other manufacturing to return. turn to the United States, it is going to be even more important now than ever before that our governments work together. I know conservatives like the rail on Doug Ford as being too

chummy with the prime minister. But the fact is we need premiers and the prime minister working together to keep these mandates that are here in Canada. And there's various ways to do that. And we need them working together to attract investment to the country or the suck of capital, which has happened with this particular instance, but a number of other projects will continue from Canada, the United States. And it's not good. Andy, is this game over? Is this the end of the road for this Brampton facility? Or is there something? Is there a pivot? Is there a rabbit that can be pulled out of a hat so that the 3,000 jobs from the factory itself and the 1,000 knock on jobs are not lost? I don't think so. And the other thing this does, Ben, is it really brings back into

focus the importance of finalizing an agreement with the United States. And it's sort of been like, you know, deadlines have dragged and Kearney said the deal was going to be this day and that day. But this is a real life reminder that it's not a nice thing to have that it's necessary for Canadians' lives. So I think that that's really going to ratchet up the intensity around the importance of the deal. And I know that the prime minister's comments squarely said this is a result of U.S. tariffs and U.S. activity and positioning on trade. So, you know, they've decided to make it. it about that and publicly state it's about that. So I think this is really bad news. And also, you know, the government has been in power for not even a full calendar year. And, you know,

companies and their investment cycles and how they make major decisions and investments in Canada take time and months and sometimes years. So we're only in the early part of this story and what its impact will be for Canada from a business investment perspective. So, you know, it's no accident. You know, you saw the list. Mark Carney was in London. You saw this. The PMO published all the people he'd met with. I mean, he's working over time to keep what we have and grow new investments. And boy, this is a really hard day for a lot of people. And so Regan, if it is a fight for capital, if it's a fight for investment, then what do you make of the news that I actually reported on over the weekend on the West Block that the United States

government was taking equity positions in two Canadian critical minerals companies that are essential to lithium, germanium, and zinc, I believe, to name just a few of them. They took, the government itself was taking equity positions in Canadian companies. Now, never mind the fact that Donald Trump said, you have nothing in Canada that we need down here. But that is an investment, that is money, that is capital that came to Canada. but it's American money coming to a Canadian company for critical minerals that will then go south of the border. Well, Ben, I think critical minerals is an area where we actually have some commonality with the United States. I'll start with where I would, if I was the prime minister or advising the prime minister, where I would go.

And that is, I would advise the prime minister to use this as some leverage with the president. We have foreign investment rules in this country that can prevent these types of transactions from happening. And that was reported on some of the other news by some of the other news sources in this country over the weekend. Canadian mining companies operate in the U.S. American mining companies operate in Canada. And if I was the prime minister, I would make it as a point of leverage. I think we have commonality around critical minerals in particular with respect to China. And we need to get the Chinese investment away from this hemisphere in North and South America and reassert North American dominance. Canada, in mining and critical minerals, it's one of the few areas where Canada has truly

world-class expertise. And so I would be, you know, I would be using this as leverage with the president. We were talking about autos before this as a discussion point as part of the broader trade discussion. There is no automatic approval for U.S. government entities to acquiring stakes in these Canadian companies, and the government of Canada can reject this investment. I'm not saying they should. What I am saying is we should be smart about it. And if the U.S. government wants to take equity positions in Canadian companies, there should be a tradeoff. And the president has made it clear that he likes to do deals. And the prime minister is a competent, capable dealmaker. And that's how I would manage this particular issue. And I think how the

government should manage the issue. Andy, you're nodding. What do you think we could get for this for our prime minister to go down to Donald Trump and say, you want to keep those deals intact? Here's what we want. What could we get from the president in exchange for allowing these deals to go through i don't know what we could get in exchange precisely ben but i think regan's absolutely right um a swift approval of these transactions would be really foolish unless you think you are in good graces with them and you can say look what we did and you know in exchange like like you know there is a there is a question of whether you approve it and then seek something to return or you do it first that is a legitimate diplomacy question

Um, you know, I'm not really sure, but, you know, it does you, you made the point, you made the point, Ben, which is you say you want nothing. You say there's nothing up there that you like. Well, uh, turns out there is. Yeah. And, um, but what's surprised me as well is how this story came to light. Um, you know, it came to light as a result of, as a result of the application to purchase these, these equity stakes. And, um, but we haven't heard about this before. So I, I think this is a, as a result of, as a result of the application to purchase these equity stakes. And, and, um, um, but we haven't heard about this is a. So I think this is a, bit of a sleep, bit of a sleeper story. Yeah. But this would be true no matter what state was buying it. If a foreign country, what's about equity stake in a critical sector, that requires serious review. Yeah. And serious scrutiny, whether it's Donald Trump in the middle of the trade war or not.

And I, I spoke with an expert on, on the subject on Sunday. And they were under the impression that this could be the, this could be just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what Donald Trump might want to do in terms of public. private partnerships. And so this could be, this could be the start of a very, of an intertwining of our economies in a different way that we haven't seen before. Regan. And Ben, look, we talked about auto before this. The supply chain that has been developed since the auto pact in the 1960s between Canada and the United States has created thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in wealth for both countries for shareholders of the companies who are

in the auto sector and in the supply chain. If we can find another way to create a modern-day auto-packed with the United States with respect to critical minerals, we should be able to benefit from the same outcome. The other thing I will say, Ben, is we have a problem in this country where we have capital, we have limited capital. That's not to say there's no money being invested, but Canadian capital is being pushed in different directions. If we can attract investment, whether it's from the United States government or U.S.

investors to build out the Canadian and U.S. critical mineral supply chain, that is a net positive. So that's why I say we should be a little smarter about how we respond to this. And I think if we can build out a supply chain, a modern day auto pact, but for critical minerals, and governments on both sides of the border federally have taken steps to do that, then that's a net positive for the country. All right. We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, Andy, you're going to be up on deck first. We're putting our panelists on the spot with the political play of the week. Don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulroney Show marches on.

This podcast is sponsored by Better Help. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty. It's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control, and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed. You're allowed to say, I'm not okay right now.

And trust me, I have been there. whether it's the state of the world, stressed at home, or just feeling like you've got to have it all together and have all the answers. You don't have to hold it in. BetterHelp is here to help with the world's largest network

of licensed therapists. They've already supported over 5 million people. You can connect with a therapist online from wherever you are. No wait list, no office visits. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch any time. It's time to put your mental health on the agenda.

Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Mulruni today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash Mulruni. This podcast is brought you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend, and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Plus, Wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending Euros to a loved one in Paris,

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Yeah, he said it better than I did. All right, Andy, you're up first. Well, in the words of Michael Bouble, it's you. It's you, Ben. You're handling of Doug Ford and his questions and your creation of the Nepo Baby Foundation. Oh, thank you. Yes.

Because born on third base isn't enough sometimes. For me, your handling of that question is the political play of the week. Very, very well done. Just so we're clear, flattery will get you everywhere on this show. Yeah. And just to be clear, you also didn't answer the question. Doug Ford is right. But the serious one has got to be Tony Wakeham

and Newfoundland and Labrador New Conservative Premier elect And man, if you're a conservative in Canada You just needed that good news Right there are conservatives across Canada Saying oh man did you see how we did in Cornerbrook East You know Well I was also Andy I was just reading some

Some polling data The Main Street got it way off They suggested the liberals were going to trounce the Tories by 20 points Well, the guy's a former basketball coach And he has a great quote this morning Which is there's nothing more worthless Than the score at halftime Yeah, yeah

He's dunking on everyone today And congratulations to him Regan, you're up Well, I'd like to point out, Ben, that I've suggested several times On this show that you should run From Mayor of Toronto And you've always denied it

But for whatever reason You didn't deny it with the premier yesterday So I just want your listeners No, I said I would like to do it one day I said I would like to do it one day I have the Benbow Rudy show is not yet one year old. It's still in diapers. I got to care for my little cherub here.

I get it. But there's no one who cares more about potholes and bike lanes than you. And I look forward to supporting your campaign. So I have two misplays of the week. My first misplay is the British Prime Minister Kier Starmor and the clip of him going up to the stage at the podium when Donald Trump asked him. I mean, what a sausage that guy is. I mean, he showed up, thought he was going to speak.

The president shook his hand. I think rather hard and then sent him back to the peons where he should be because the guy's an absolute zero and a donut and I look forward to the British people throwing that bomb on his turk on his on keister when they have their next general election the other misplay of the week for me Ben is actually the government of Canada in particular minister champagne as finance minister and this is not so much a misplay but I think a missed opportunity we have a budget coming up in less than three weeks and we don't really have any leaks or any strategic positioning from the finance minister or the prime minister's office as to what we can expect there's this overhang of expected reductions

in the public service program reductions and whatnot and i think those are all legitimate but i have not seen any strategic communications that uh political pros who've done these jobs before ahead of this and so i just see it as a missed opportunity for the minister and his team and the prime minister and his team yes there's a lot going on in the world but you use governments use leaks strategically to reporters to be able to begin a narrative and right now there is absolutely no narrative that is being set out there. And I think that's a missed opportunity. Well, you know, I'm glad you ended with that because I'm going to dovetail off of that with our next story. If there is a narrative, it's coming from the Bloch, Quebec, we, you know,

as strong as this minority government is, it still is a minority government. It has to reach across one part of the aisle to get some votes in order to secure the passage of this, of this budget. And the Bloch, Quebec says that they've got, they've got 18 budget demands, six of which which are non-negotiables, and let me just read them off for you, $11.6 billion increase in federal health transfers to the provinces over five years, extending the 2022 decision to boost old age security benefits by 10% to people over 75, providing Quebec with $814 million, tied to Ottawa's decision to end the federal fuel charge,

launching new interest-free loans of as much as 20 grand for first-time homebuyers, increasing social housing transfers by $1.4 billion, and creating a new provincial transfer program for infrastructure. So that's what they want. Andy, you're shaking your head. Well, I just find it ironic that, not Alanis Morissette, erronic, real ironic, that these people who are opposed to the extraction of Alberta energy and Alberta oil want all of the things that that resource pays for. Yeah.

So it's just always comical. And then it also made me think of Jagmeet Singh. I don't ever want to think of Jagmeet Singh ever again. but but how totally useless he was at extracting things from the liberal government and this is I was trying to decide maybe Reagan has a comment here is this worse than Jagmeet's positioning on a budget it's a real coin flip for me I just 18 things six are not six are non-negotiable so you're automatically saying the other 12 are don't bother with the other 12 I don't read past six because he's the only six it's just a it's a total nonsense. you can make sense of it. Well, I'll make sense of it this way. It is a tale as old as time that in minority governments, opposition parties who believe they have influence in the balance of power, making outrageous demands like those that you listed at the start of this segment in exchange for votes.

You know, with respect to Andy's comment about Jugmeet Singh, I actually would argue that he was somewhat successful in extracting things out of the liberals because we had that two-year or three-year coalition agreement with the long national nightmare known as Justin Trudeau. we've seen where that type of extraction has got the country. With respect to the block, they did the same things when I worked for Minister Flaherty at the Department of Finance. By the way, with the Prime Minister when he was the deputy there, this party has the same posture,

and every single time they come up empty-handed. If I was the Prime Minister, I would tell them to go and pound sand. He is going to get the votes he needs from the NDP and from Elizabeth May in the House of Commons. This budget is going to pass. There is no chance that we are going to an election. However, if the Prime Minister, wanted to play hardball, and I would advise him to play hardball, he should dare them to bring him

down. He should dare the Black Quebecois to bring down the government and work with the opposition parties to cause an election. You know, with respect to their asks, you know, more money for social transfers, for God's sakes, is there anybody in Canada who believes that health care transfers are underfunded from the government of Canada to the provinces? It is outrageous to suggest we need more money for this stuff. Oh, no. You're absolutely, I mean, a man, never before in the history of this country have we put more money into health care and never before. have the outcomes been as pitiful? It's not about more money.

It's about fixing the system, fixing the machine that eats that money. Yeah, and the bloc are looking for their raise on death, and being elected as a Block Quebecois MP is one of the best jobs in Ottawa because all you have to do is ask questions. You never get to make any decisions. And for the losers who are part of that party,

that's maybe a great professional existence, but it's not productive and it's not going to build the country that we want in Canada. And as Andy says, if they want all these things, maybe they should support a pipeline going energy east through the province of Quebec. Before we, and, Andy, say what you guys say.

No, I was just going to say, like the liberal house leader is a guy named Steve McKinnon, and he's no slouch. So if the block he everquois thinks they're going to turn this guy around and work him, they're, I mean, they've got another thing coming. I mean, I think they're doing with a real pro there, and that's going to be hard for them.

All right. Lastly, before we go, this is the first time we do this political panel, Regan, and you do not have to say what you typically say when we talk about Israel. You know, Ben, and I have to say that I joined the Jewish community in Canada and around the world and celebrated the triumph. That is the agreement that President Trump and his team, Steve Whitkoff, Jared Kushner, were able to negotiate. I am not wearing my yellow pin today for the first time in two years. And I think it's a moment to celebrate. There are still some issues Of course, there was an issue, I think it was yesterday the day before, where we had some

non-Israeli soldiers who crossed a line out of Gaza into Israel that was not agreed to, and there was some fighting there. That is inevitable, that will continue to happen. But I think, you know, bringing a new dawn to the Middle East, the support of Arab nations, the support of the entire world who were in Egypt, not least of which we talked about that donut Kirstarmer, but Prime Minister Carney was there. I mean, the world is trying to move in a direction where peace, can be had. And the returning of those hostages for two years, they, along with a few others,

demanded that they come home. And I have to tell you, I was very, very emotional when I saw those families reunited. And how can you not be? And it is a blessing that this is now done and we can move forward. It won't be without bumps. But it is a new day. And President Trump should be celebrated and knowledge for this work along with his team. And gentlemen, I have to say that it does feel like that it's going to be a long tide to turn as it relates to sort of the useful idiots who have been parroting back lies and misinformation for years, making life unlivable and putting pressure on the wrong actor in this war. But when Doctors Without Borders comes out and says that the civilian and combatant ratio of death was 1.39 and the UN pegs an acceptable

level at 9. You know that the narrative around the genocide and starvation, um, uh, about a regarding the IDF, was built on sand, shifting sands, and I'm very glad to see it all falling apart. Gentlemen, thank you so much. We appreciate it. We'll see you soon. in a language he no longer understands, but a lost cassette will reveal the ugly truth.

From Curious Cast and Blanchard House comes a cross-continental Odyssey to recover a stolen past. This is Stop Rewind, The Lost Boy, available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.