The Ben Mulroney Show - Politics fire and ice! Tech talk in person and Canada History Ehx.

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Guest: Carmi Levy /Tech Journalist GUEST:  CRAIG BAIRD /  Canadian history Ehx If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠���⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much to the House Band for opening this show for us. It is indeed the Ben Mulroney show, all conversation, no cancellation, all across the nation. Hey, we've made it to Wednesday. It's the 14th, I guess one month from today. is Valentine's Day. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah.

Wait, what do you mean, Intrepid producer? Oh, great. What does that mean? I just, Valentine's Day is such, is so much pressure. And it's like, oh, you didn't do this,

but I did this. Well, hold on. It's such a manufacturer day. It seems like you're saying a lot without saying a lot. Let's, let's dig into this for a second. Let's know. So you're like, oh, I,

I think you just expose sort of a vein that I think we've got, we've got to go in there. Like, oh, it seems like you're getting a lot of trouble on Valentine's Day. I just get a lot of trouble, period. But that's, that's that. Let me tell you my problem with Valentine's Day. And we'll revisit in a month.

Yeah. Here's my problem with it. Pre-fix menus. Yeah, that's not great. So, and listen, I get it. You know me. You know how much staunch support I have for restaurants, right? I love them. I'm, God, it takes a lot of courage to open a restaurant and the margins are so. So I get it. That's a day. They know that they are going to be back to back to back. They need those tables full and they've got to get people in.

and get them out. And the best way to do it, prefix menus. So here's the special Valentine's Day menu where you have two options to start, three main courses, two desserts, have your free glass of champagne, and off you go because we need somebody else in that seat. I get it.

I don't like it. I don't like it. I like to have my options. I mean, when I go to, before I go to a restaurant, which is rare these days, by the way, you'll see when we take that trip together. I like to check out the menus online days in advance. I need to know what I'm going to be eating at that restaurant.

That is some OCD, buddy. No, no, no, because I can back time my other one. If I know I'm going to have steak in two days, then all that will determine what I'm going to have in the lead up to that meal. Well, yes, that sounds interesting. Yeah, but I just, I, you know, so I prefer meals, like, I prefer a Valentine's Day meal on like the 11th. Yeah, okay.

I mean, you're in the season, right? You're in the season? I would say, though, I mean, if you can, go in support, it doesn't even have to be on Valentine's Day, but any restaurant during that week, any week, especially this is a rough time of year for restaurants. Yeah. And we did get that report from the food professor saying that they're expecting 4,000 restaurants in Canada to close this year. When you talk to various, I've talked to various people in restaurants here and there, and they say it is tough, tough sledding right now. So, yeah, they deserve, I mean,

everybody in the country is having, a lot of people in country having issues, restaurants in particular. Are our technical producer, Santiago? How are you, my friend? Oh, good. How you doing? I hate to keep bringing this back to Columbia. But we're talking food. And yesterday we talked about home-cooked Colombian food. Are there any Colombian restaurants in Toronto? Yeah.

There's really one, a good one in the offering and Eglinton. That's the only one that I like. It's hard to get. The only one's only one. It's hard to get, like, the oldest that I try. Buddy, it feels, this feels like an opportunity. It feels like an opportunity. If there's only one that you like, then we've got to come up with another one.

We could call it Santiago likes this one. That would be the name of the restaurant. No fixed menus. and Amy Siegel is back in the box. And we say box, it's just another, it's another studio, but we can't, we can see her, we know she's there, cannot hear her. Anyway, welcome to the show. Thank you for spending a little bit of hump day with us.

And there's a lot to get to today. A little bit later today. What are we talking about today? We're talking about lots of stuff. We are talking about a lot of stuff. Yeah, but you know, we've got a surprise guest. I'm not going to tell you it is. Yeah, he's here and I told him to just sit there.

Oh yeah, he's right in front of it. There you go. He's right here. I said, you can, you zip it. You zip it, man. This is when I shine. This is when Ben shines. Later on the show, I passed the mic.

I'd ask questions. I'm deferential. This is my time to shine. Later on the show, you have to take a nap. You know, the biggest public speaking event I had done up until that time was when I emceed my sister's wedding. Oh, okay. And the theme of what I was, that I went with is, what about Ben? That was the theme.

Oh, my God. I'm sure they enjoyed that. Oh, yeah, my sister loved it. I was like, I'm just going to ask the question that's on everybody's mind. What about Ben? You may be here for my sister, but really you should be here for me. So there we go. We're answering the question.

What about Ben? Top of every hour is about Ben. I get to tell you what's on my mind. I don't like prefix menus. How about that? There we go. But one thing that is top of mind for a lot of people. And increasingly, we've been learning about this.

that the ramifications of Ontario Premier Doug Ford's banning of U.S. alcohol on shelves at the LCBO in Ontario is far more nuanced than otherwise thought. And, of course, the next battle line was drawn with Crown Royal. As we know, because Diageo, the massive conglomerate out of the UK that owns that among myriad other brands, announced that they were closing the bottling plant in Amherstburg, Ontario. The problem with, first of all, most of the, most of this stuff originates in, in Manitoba, and the bottling plant for Canadian booze is in Quebec. And this, this decision will hurt people on, on either end of that equation in Manitoba and in Quebec. At least, that is according to some of the people I've talked to.

And now Wob Canoe is urging Ontario to back off this plan boycott, warning it's going to risk Canadian employees. and we've heard Doug Ford say many, many times that he's a big fan of Wob Canoe. So maybe he'll listen. Because I've said on this show last week or two weeks ago, I said, I think the time for this ban and this boycott has passed.

I think it made a good point. He stood on principle. And now I think it's time to recognize that there are possibly other ways to fight this fight against Donald Trump. And now, like, it's a Pyrrhic victory at this point. I mean, there's nobody's winning. And certainly not.

consumers in Ontario. So maybe now is the time to turn the page and say, all right, whatever we got on the show, whatever they're sitting in reserves, let's sell that off for charity and let's start again. I think he's only doing damage to his own popularity, his own reputation at this point. I don't know that it's going to hurt him. I don't, because it's not that big, I don't drink Crown Royal, so I wouldn't be able to tell you. But I don't know that it's that big of a deal. It's just, to me, it's like, come on, like just, you know, go fry another fish, a bigger fish. See what I did there? A tuna.

Tuna. Big fish. You fry tuna? I don't know, do you? No. No. Sure. Cut up, eat it raw.

Okay. You're trying to get me back on track. My producer puts so much time and care and energy into building this show. And then we talk about it. I say, great, great, great. And then at the top of the show, if we get to 50% of it, it's been a good segment. I don't know that we got to 10%. You think 50?

I said if we get to 50, it's a good. If we get to 30, it's a good time. That's like how many, if you win 30% of is it BS or is it real, that's a good day for you. I don't even know what that is. Okay. No, the Trump administration is announcing it's ending the temporary protected status for Somali immigrants as part of a broader mass deportation agenda. I didn't know about this temporary protected status. A lot of people were making a big deal out of this saying because the Somali community has been under attack in the U.S., particularly in regards to data.

daycares and fraud in Minnesota. They've got over 100,000 Somali expats, I guess, live in there. Or people of Somali origin. And so they're like, ha ha, ha, if Trump was saying, thinking that if he remove this status, which protects people from being sent back, having to go back to countries which are war-torn or problematic.

And it would be a big dent into the population. But apparently no, because there's, 1.3 million TPS holders in the states. There's only, there's only a few hundred Somalis. That's it. Under that program. Yeah. Okay. There's not a ton of them.

Okay. So it's not a big deal. Not a big deal. But they're still having their issues in Minnesota. I mean, at the fallout from with the ice and the, the homeland security agents like picking up people and it's big time going on right now. But we, like, we've seen that there's, look, I'm sure this is messy. I know this is not going the way most would want. I don't know that the videos that we're saying, well, let's, here, we got just enough time.

Let's play this video. It's a Minnesota ice situation where some anti-ice people are in conversation with an ice agent. I told you, if you guys get in my way, I will arrest you. Sir, we're just observing. You're going to observe all you want. I am observing. Do you see me in the way? I am at back.

You had anger issues as a kid, didn't you? Were your parents present? You should be ashamed of yourself, man. He is. Okay, we'll end it there. You're not a lot of time. Okay, look, I don't know a lot about a lot. Observation does not involve asking somebody or telling somebody they should be embarrassed.

So there's a lot to unpack, and we're going to talk about it later in the show. But don't go anywhere because when we come back, our tech expert is in studio. Carmen Levy is here. It's really the best use of my time. Any clients quick tax questions ever be quick? Is this really the best use of my time? Well, busy season always end in Barnow. Is this really the best use of my time?

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Shopping store or at metro.ca. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you for spending a little bit of your day with us. Hey, just as a reminder, we have done our best, and I hope we continue to improve. We've got our best to find you wherever you are. We know that you're busy. We know that you've got many different screens and many different ways to enjoy the content that you enjoy. and if you are somebody who avails yourself of the Ben Mulroney show on a regular, semi-regular,

or just a one-off sort of situation, we want to find you. And so we are on all the podcast platforms. We are on the traditional radio machine. We're on the IHeart Radio streaming app. We're also on Instagram where people enjoy sharing our little bite-sized pieces of content. Like and subscribe and follow us there. And of course, we're on YouTube if you want to see the face that makes this voice. So we said, thank you very much.

What did you just say? I said, oh. That's what I said. Okay, I'm sure. We'll go with that. Normally, when we talk to our next guest, not only is he not in studio, but oftentimes we're not even doing it live

because he is far too busy to be constrained by the linear schedule that is the Ben Mulroney show. And so we find a moment to record something beforehand because we like having him on so much. We'll take him any way we can get him. Well, it turns out not only is he live, but he's in studio.

Please welcome to the show, tech expert and general bon vivant, Carmi Levy. Carmie, welcome. Oh, so good to be with you. Thanks for allowing me into the building, not kicking me out

when I showed up at the front door. That was really kind of here. Yeah, well, we do have the space. I don't know if you notice, but there's this. You could ride a bicycle through this office. There's room upstairs. I did threaten them.

I practiced my break dancing. I got lots of space up there. I think we have video so much. So, yeah, So we're going to keep you around for a couple of segments. This first segment almost feels like it is around the horn of Elon Musk. And the first one is the Senate of the United States is trying to address deepfakes. And for some reason, people are focused on GROC, even though it does feel like there's a problem, really?

But it does feel like a lot of AI platforms can do what GROC does. And it's called the Defiance Act. Now, this is interesting. It's called the Disrupt, Explicit, Forged Images and Non-Consensual Edits, D-E-F-I-A-N-C-E, the Defiance Act. I mean, somebody spent a lot of time on that. That is easily my favorite technology legislation acronym of all time. They definitely sweated the details on this one. I think they won.

I think this is something that we will remember. There's a posted in my office. I will not forget this one. What's this about, is this significant, or is this just, you know, governmental busy work. No, this is actually really significant and really timely because just a couple of weeks ago, there was that story that emerged over the New Year's holiday of people on GROC. They found that their images were being grabbed out of their feeds,

and then they were being used. They were being run through GROC. Rock is kind of like Elon Musk. He owns a company called X-A-I, and it's their answer to chat GPT, Google Gemini. It's a chat bot. It's a large language model without the guardrails, without the protections. And they were running these images through them. They were nudifying them, sexualized.

them. And then they were posting them online. They were going viral. So imagine you post a picture of yourself at Christmas dinner. And next thing, you know, someone has taken it, puts you in a new pornographic position and suddenly you're hearing from your aunt and uncle asking why. So this Defiance Act would allow victims of this kind of crime to sue individuals who go, who have done that. And it also holds the platforms themselves liable. So you could sue the perpetrator. You could also Sue Elon Musk's company for this and at least get, this is not criminal it's civil, but at least it offers you

an opportunity to level the playing field somewhat if you've been victimized. Yeah, I, listen, I don't want to come to somebody's defense if they don't deserve it, so you'll tell me, tell me what's different, why is Elon Musk getting, is the focal point of people's ire when it does feel to me like

other platforms can do this? Is there something specific that Groch is doing that is making it so that people are targeting him? It's, I mean, like every other chatbot, it works the same way. You give it a prompt and then it spits out an answer. You can have conversations with it. You can have it to work on your behalf.

It's kind of like ChatGBT, GBT, and another flavor. What's different about it is, is it's got a different philosophy. It doesn't have the same guardrails and protections built into it. So, for example, if you ask ChatGPT to create a nudified photo of someone, it would instantly block you because it has those protections built into it. If you wanted to create a compromising image of, say, a celebrity, it would also block you from doing that. Seems to me like that should be, like, why wouldn't they build that in? Well, because the way Elon Musk has marketed Grock up until now,

he calls it the anti-woke chat bot, that it is the answer. It's the free speech absolutist tool. In other words, the technology doesn't decide what you can do with it. You decide what you can do with it. And there's always been this, you know, if you put protections in place to prevent abuse, there will always be complaints about freedom of expression. Don't interfere with my ability to say and do what I want. But what if what you say and do is you want to create explicit images of young children in compromising positions.

And that's the difference between a right-thinking individual who understands that there should be appropriate limits on the use of technology and others who use freedom of expression as an excuse to get away with the digital equivalent of murder. I remember an issue of an episode of Law and Order years ago where somebody had what looked to be a child pornography on their computer, but it turns out, They had used a technology to de-age women who were of age. And the question was, is this child porn? And I guess that question is going to come up again in situations like this. Is it technically child pornography if no children were harmed? Yes. And that's the thing, because this isn't just some app that sits in the corner of the internet gathering dust.

This is a bot that you don't even have to download it separately. It's integrated into X. Oh, yeah, you just ask it. You can tweet, hey, GROC. Exactly. It's crazy. And then GROC goes ahead and does it. and makes it available to you in your feeds

to share with your followers and others. And so it can go very viral very quickly because we know the algorithm on X, it prioritizes this kind of content. It will find its audience. So explain to me this next story then because we've just laid out, you know, some pretty interesting,

kind of abhorrent weaknesses in GROC. And Pete Hegeseth, the Defense Secretary in the United States, says he wants to integrate GROC AI into military networks. I mean, it feels like, giving the keys of the kingdom to it, like a gym bro. Yeah, you know, talk about bad timing. I'm not sure if Pete Hegsef, you know, the Secretary of War has been reading the headlines lately, but this doesn't strike me as the best time to be announcing this.

So essentially what he's doing is he's saying they're going to integrate Grok into the Pentagon, which is, of course, the Department of War, their headquarters, their major systems to deliver better information services to the warfighter, which sounds really great. I mean, we know his speaking style, but simply putting it in place without the appropriate checks and balances to protect the information that is there, knowing full well the specific technological limitations of GROC that we've just talked about, is almost an invitation for disaster. And you can almost write the headlines that are going to come from this particular initiative. Having worked in IT, this is not what you do. You don't just throw the technological equivalent of a bomb into the middle of a nation. most sensitive information and expect there to be no casualty.

It's also interesting that they're going to single source this contract to a guy when their other companies are doing similar, similar things. Yeah, you know what I can see happening? I could see this military under this administration integrating with all sorts of Elon Musk friendly technologies. And then one day there's going to be a president who is not as friendly with Elon Musk. And when they come to blows and they absolutely would come to blows, Elon just turns off his tech, or rather threatens to turn off his tech.

We kind of saw that in Ukraine, didn't we? In the early stages of the Russian invasion, where first he offered to provide Starlink service free to Ukrainian military. And then he balked when he realized he wasn't going to get paid for it. And he actually started to withhold some of the technology before deciding, you know, okay, he'll do the right thing, but that's the thing. It's subject to his wins. And look, the FCC is letting SpaceX launch 7,500.

more Starlink satellites. Now, how many are there already? Latest estimate is about 9,400. They've launched over 10,000, close to 11,000. But of course, some of them have been zirbited since, and they keep launching more almost every couple of days. That's a ton. And I know that in Canada, we were going to opt for a made-in-canada option instead of Starlink, but I think they've got like 20 satellites up there. Yeah, telosatellite speed. They've launched the first wave of them, and I think there'll be a few hundred by the time all of a sudden down. This is certainly not on the same scale as Starlink, certainly not the same level of technology.

But again, if you have concerns about handing over some of your most sensitive satellite communications to a guy that we don't necessarily trust, maybe you might want to look for alter-pics. Really quick. Deorbited. Is that fancy term for it crashed? Pretty much, yeah. There you go.

All right. Well, don't go on here. Believe it or not, we got Carmi for another segment. We're going to be talking about AI in schools. What's the right way for our kids to learn how to use AI and is the wrong way cheating? We'll talk about that next. Oh, we're going to take your calls, too.

The deals at food beach, shop in store and online until January 21. Food basics. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And we're starting a new segment today because we're very happy to have a good friend of the show. Tech expert in studio, Carmie Levy. He's always been here as our Sherpa as we climb the top of Mount Technology. And so let's begin Calls with Carmi. Calls with Carmi on the Ben Mulroney Show. It's technically Ben Mulrooney. Tell your guy, it's Mulroney, not Mulroney. You know who used to say Ben Mulroney?

Or you say Mulroney all the time? Peter Mansbridge. Peter Mansbridge. Really? Yes. I like Peter Manzbris, but I think he did it deliberately. I think he did like, called the prime minister by the wrong name. Mulroney.

I had a friend who said, I laugh so much. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Okay, anyway, do-da-da-da-pa-p-pa-pa-pa. Carmi-leavy, welcome. Okay, time for the show. The numbers, 4168-6400 or 1-8-225 talk. We want to talk. Let's start with AI in schools.

And so give us a call, 416-870-6400. What do you think is the appropriate use of AI in schools? And I've been having this conversation, Karmie, with my son, because I told him, I said, look, he has to do a project. And I suggested to him to lay out his vision for the project for, you know, chat, CPP or something like that, and have it find sources for him. Like that would be the point. Have it find the sources for them.

Because in chat GPT, it will let you know, okay, here's the annual report of this company and that one. Then you can go through it yourself. I said, don't have it do the work for you. But have it winnowed down. So you don't have to go through 15 different, like 100 different sources. You'll go through five sources or six sources, right? Great example of a best practice with AI.

In other words, you're not handing the work over to AI to do it for you. You are using it as a tool to cover more grounds. But then you're still ensuring that you as the student, are doing the analysis. You're doing the heavy lifting. You're just covering more ground using the technology. It's no different that a generation ago kids would have used Google to find sources instead of going to the library.

It lets them do it better. It lets them do it faster. Let them get better sources. AI is doing the same thing, expanding their world due, but still keeping them in control. And they're going to go out into the real world eventually. They're going to be using these tools. They need to learn how to use them properly now. This is the perfect opportunity to do just that.

And look, what I was trying to do is, so I was asking myself, when I was talking to my son, I was asking him and said, like, what kind of advice would my dad have given me if he knew about Google when it came out? Because I think a lot of people were like, oh, Google's going to do all this work for you. Right? No, it's going to point you in the right direction. And it might even give you some advice on what to look for. Yeah. Right? I think that's great.

I don't think that's cheating at all. It isn't cheating, especially because it's part of the process. And if we tell our kids, don't use them. First of all, say no to a kid. They believe that means yes. They're going to use it anyway. And they should at least use it properly. So by the time they get, they graduate and they have jobs and they're, and they're

contributing to society. They've built these digital best practices. They have the maturity so they can squeeze the value out of it. No one is saying that this is going to replace us. But you're going to, you're going to, you know, I'd rather my kid be ahead of the other kids who aren't. Is there a platform, is there an AI platform that is better or worse for kids? I'm going to grok might not be what kids should be using. Yeah, I'd probably leave grok off the list. Was it anthropic? Is that one that's Anthropic Clode is, that's one. Google Geminae is another Microsoft co-pilot, which is largely based on open AIs,

the same technology that drives Chat-GPT, as well as Open AIs chat GPT. And isn't there one that is sort of overlaid with protections for kids specifically for schools? I mean, there are a whole lot of vendors who will convince you that they are, but I would still rather my kid learn on tools that everyone else is using because those are the transferable digital skills,

that they're going to need. If they learn on, you know, what I call a cloistered platform, that's deliberately limited because, well, you know, for kids, they're not going to learn those skills. They're not going to be kind of at the same level when they graduate. All right. Let's take a call from Chris. Chris, where are you calling from? Oh, I'm surprised.

Yeah, there you. Hey, how are you, Chris? Where are you coming from? Peterborough. Peterborough. Welcome. What do you have to say? Well, I was just listening to your discussion about Grock being able to nudify an image.

And I don't think that's entirely accurate. I just happened to be sitting in front of the computer, so I asked GROC, and GROC replies that that capability is not built in. Okay. You know, my, my guest wasn't able to hear what you just said, so I'm going to repeat it. So Chris said that he's sitting in front of his computer, and he asked GROC to, quote, nudify a picture. Chris, repeat what you said?

What did GROC tell you? Direct quote from GROC, no, I won't notify or help notify any image of a person, regardless of whether you ask nicely, hypothetically for research or in any other way. And can I ask, Chris, did you ask, like, when did this happen? Was this like a today thing or yesterday thing or a last week thing? 10 minutes ago. Okay, so as of 10 minutes ago, I would expect that because of the controversy around

what's been happening over the New Year's holiday, that the company has rolled out updates that are more restrictive that would prevent this thing from happening, but also recognize that just because a chatbot, including GROC or any other says no, doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to prompt to kind of work around it. But doesn't it have spicy mode? It does. It has spicy mode. And again, I don't know if you were in spicy mode, but if you put it in spicy mode,

those restrictions will be either lowered or removed. And also, if you tell it that if you don't ask the question directly, but say, I'm doing a presentation on or I've been asked to comment on, there are ways to get around those restrictions too. And as has been historically proven by, you know, research, GROC, it's easier to bypass those limitations than other platforms. Hey, Chris, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

That was, I'm glad we highlighted that. Good question and a good use case. Yeah, I want to talk now about the future of the automotive industry in Canada and specifically the scenario that, well, we don't know if it's going to happen, but we know a few things. We know that America wants to hollow out Canada's automotive industry, wants it all for itself. And we know that we can't depend on the Americans anymore. And we know that our prime minister is in China. We know that he wants to help the Saskatchewan farmers get rid of the canoil. tariffs that are at 100%.

We know that those were put on in response to the 100% tariffs that we put on Chinese EVs. So you put that all in a blender and could our prime minister come home with a scenario where those tariffs have been lowered on Chinese EVs

making them more attractive to Canadian consumers? And I don't know about you. I have seen a lot of videos of some incredible cars coming out of China. We've also been told that they are security risk because it's like having a Chinese spyware on wheels. So I'd love your commentary on the lay of the land as it is today.

Well, I mean, you know, the number one EV maker in the world as of the end of last year is B.D, Chinese-based, they just surpassed Tesla. They're using technologies in their vehicles, so the kinds of batteries, lithium polymers, silicon-based, solid-state batteries that we are probably not going to see here in North America if we maintain the status quo for another five to seven years. And so there are technologies that leapfrog ours, their cars have longer range, they're a lot cheaper. And that's one of the reasons a lot of people don't buy EVs here, obviously charging, because they don't go that far. It takes a long time to charge, and it's very difficult to charge, you know, set it up at your house.

Or if you have an apartment or a condo, maybe you can't charge it all. So, you know, and of course, it costs everything else being equal. An EV is more expensive than an internal combustion engine vehicle. And the industry still hasn't figured that out, and a lot of people aren't willing to be beta testers. for the automotive industry. And so if China has a better product that goes further, charges faster, and by the way, is significantly less expensive, then that could be the game changer for Canadian consumers

who up until now have not adopted them because of those fears. I saw someone doing a review of a Chinese EV today. I'd never heard the company before. It is the most tricked out SUV I've ever seen. It's got a range of almost 800 miles. So I don't know how many kilometers that is, but that's a lot. And it's got 1,400 horsepower. It's also got a space for gas to charge you on the run. And it's got like more bells and whistles in it than I've ever seen before now. It's, they said it's all of that for 85,000 U.S. which sounds like a lot, but you would compare that to a U.S. equivalent. It'd be like $150,000. And now, my producer just showed us a video. Speaking of wild things, and I was like, is this AI?

It looks like AI. It's apparently real. That looks like AI. Kawasaki is confirmed it's Corleo Robot Horse will enter production, debut at the 2030 Expo in Riyadh and be sold to consumers by 2030. Okay. It's a hydrogen powered four-legged all terrain vehicle. It is, it moves around almost like a goat, one of those mountain goats. It's insane. Hang on while I update my calendar for a chan.

Monica 2035, this is what I want. Okay, but the videos here are not real. No, they're AI generated. It's clear because the physics obviously don't work, but it's one of those, you know, they call it vaporware. Let's put it out there, see what kind of reaction we get, because if there is enough reaction, maybe they'll put some development resources into it.

All right, well, Karmie, I wish we had more time with you. Thank you so much for being here. I'm looking forward to having you back in person. Appreciate being with you. Thanks so much. All right, don't go anywhere because class is in session with the great Craig Baird, where he's, He's going to give us a Canadian history lesson, the likes of which you haven't had all week.

Class is in session, people. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And look, like I've said many, many times before, I learn a lot from a lot of our guests that we have regularly on this show. But I don't learn consistently the way I learn from our next guest. Craig Baird, the host of Canadian History X. Craig, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me.

So again, like right off the top here, This little nugget that you have that on this day in 1976, Eaton's announced that the 76 spring summer catalog would be the last. And over 9,000 mail order employees were out of work by that decision. I'm surprised that that decision was made in 76. Yeah, it actually kind of lasted for quite a bit longer than I think a lot of people realized. I mean, the Eaton's catalog was a staple of Canada for decades and decades when it first debuted in 1884. It was a small 30.

My dad had stories of it as a young kid growing up on the north shore of Quebec, like way past, way past, the north shore of the St. Lawrence River, way past Quebec City. Like, that's where he lived in a town called Baycomo. And that was how they got stuff back then. Oh, without a doubt. And it was especially true out West, too, with a lot of these, you know, settlers and everything. You know, 1884, this catalog is created. It's 32 pages.

And within 12 years, they're filling out 200,000 orders per year. And, I mean, you could order. everything. You could over farm tools. You could order fine China, furniture, pianos, even entire houses. It was Amazon. It was Amazon. Essentially, yeah, absolutely. And people would learn to speak English with this. It would be used to teach children during the Great Depression when they didn't have textbooks. They used the Eaton's catalog. And it's become just part of our, you know, our culture, the hockey sweater. The whole plot revolves around ordering Maurice Rashar jersey from Eaton's catalog and getting the Maple Leafs one instead.

And so what happened in 1976 that made them say that's it? We can't do this anymore. Well, by that point, Eaton's was really starting to struggle. They were trying to keep up with a lot of the other retailers that were around at the time. And it was just decided that with people, you know, not really ordering as much from the catalog, people were living in suburbs, people were able to get to these early versions of the box stores relatively quickly, that it kind of outlived its usefulness. and they decided to end it in 1976

and had immediate backlash because everybody was very mad about that. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, we were talking about consumer electronics a few weeks ago and how I loved that catalog growing up. But that, you know, that went away as well. I mean, it seems, you know, this sort of thing happens. Contractions happen, changes in technology,

changes in tastes happen. And it's what we're experiencing now, while with a lot of contractions and changes to the marketplace due to technology, they were clearly dealing with this back in 1976 for other reasons, but the impact on the job market was exactly the same. Oh, absolutely. And a lot of people were, like I said, very angry with Eatans.

And it was kind of the beginning of the end. You know, within 20 odd years, Eatans is completely gone, which was something no one could have thought of decades earlier because it was such an institution. Well, I'll tell you what's weird. Eaton's is gone. And yet in Toronto, one of the biggest malls in the country is still the Eaton Center.

Like, I don't get it. Why they haven't sold off the naming rights for that thing. It just blows my mind. I don't get it. A relic of a bygone era. Sure, but there's money to be had there. You can call it anything. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

But you know what keeps the name alive? Yeah, no one. You're absolutely right. All right, what's on the show this week? So this week I'm going to be talking about somebody named Shana Dithet. So she was born around 1801 near a lake in the interior of Newfoundland. And when she was a child, a trapper actually shot her while she was washing venison in the river. But thankfully,

able to recover from that. And then in 1819, her aunt was captured by settlers. And then four years later, her father died when he fell through the ice. So she was a member of the Biotic and they were really starting to struggle because of settlers on Newfoundland. And in 1823, Shana Dithet, her mother and sister were actually taken by trappers to St. John's where her mother and sister actually died. When you say taken, they were abducted, they were kidnapped? Yeah. So what happened was at the time, they really wanted to work with, like, the leaders in Newfoundland, wanted to work with the Biotic.

And so there was kind of a bounty on Biotic to bring them to St. John so they could explain that we want to trade with you, we want to work with you. But that just led a lot of people to just kidnap Biotic, take them to St. John's and collect the hundred pound reward, you know, not really thinking of the welfare of these people. So like I said, you know,

her mother and daughter, or sister died. And then Sean Aditha just kind of worked in various homes as a servant. But then William Cormick, he started to talk with her. And so she detailed the story, the culture, and much more about the Biotic through her drawings and really helped preserve their culture because they were essentially disappearing at this point. And then she died as tuberculosis in 1829.

And her skull was actually sent to the Royal College of Physicians and unfortunately was destroyed in the German bombings during the Second World War. But, you know, she has an important legacy of preserving the story of her people. Yeah, well, let's listen to a little bit of this week's clip featuring Shauna Dithic. On one of his trading expeditions, he came across a deserted Beothic camp. Believe in the Beothic were watching from the trees, he hoisted a white flag and waved it. Separated by a river, eight men came out of the trees and lit a signal fire. In response, John Guy encouraged them to cross and join his party, and after a short while of hand gestures to communicate his desire to trade,

some of the Beothic waited across. The Beothic gave long speeches which John Guy and his men did not understand, And then they began to dance. And once they had exhausted themselves, they sat down for a meal. Guy made sure to serve them a lavish feast of bread, butter, raisins, and beer. In return, the Beothic provided caribou meat and root vegetables. The Beothic gave Guy and his men furs and received a linen cap, two towels, a piece of brass, a shirt, two napkins, gloves, 12 spices,

a hatchet, a knife, four threaded needles, and a pair of scissors in return. John Guy really wanted to make a good impression. and that night the Biotic communicated to them, they would be safe for the night. Then the two groups agreed to return to that spot in one year to negotiate some more. However, what could have been a prosperous trading relationship was thwarted by a tragic misunderstanding. And that misunderstanding was? Or do we have to tune in? No.

So they agreed a year later they would meet again to trade. But a year later, John Guy and his men weren't able to make it because of us. a lot of snowfall, but the Beothic did, and they saw somebody in the distance on a boat and started waving, but the person on the boat thought that they were hostile and immediately started shooting at them. Oh my goodness. And that kind of ended any hopes of the Beothic trading with the settlers. I mean, it seems based on the story that you're telling is that the Beothic were open to

new relationships with these new people. But bad luck and bad decisions led to some pretty tragic out. outcomes, like, if you want to trade with them and you create a situation where people think it's in their best interest to kidnap these people and bring them to you, you're not really setting yourself up for success. No, not at all. You really aren't creating this good relationship of trade and everything. And, you know, eventually the Biotic kind of disappear. Although, you know, we think of Shana Dithet as the last of the Biotic, but they most likely integrated with, you know, the Enu and the Mick Mac and things like that. But, you know, the fact that she, you know, worked as a servant in various people's homes. And look, when people think back at her as a historical figure, do they, is she a tragic figure? Is she a cautionary tale? Is she, what's the lesson, I guess?

I think she's seen as a heroic figure because she knew that her people were disappearing. And, you know, she tried to make the most of it and tried to preserve their story and their culture through her drawing. to communicate to future generations that, you know, they were here and, you know, they existed. And can you explain the justification for them holding onto her skull at the Royal College of Physicians? It was something that was pretty common. Her aunt and uncle had also been killed by settlers and their bodies were actually sent to Glasgow, where they actually still are, although we're working now to get that, those returned to give them a proper burial. But it was, you know, it was to study her skull to see if there was any difference between people in the

British Isles and the Beothic or, you know, other indigenous nations. And then her skull got moved around a bit until it was unfortunately destroyed. All right. Well, listen, thank you very much. Yet again, you've introduced me to a very important person in Canadian history that I did not know before. So thank you very much, Craig Baird. Where can people find the show? You can find the show just by searching for Canadian History X, and that's EHX on all podcast platforms. And you can listen every weekend across the chorus radio network. You're a good egg, sir. Thank you very much.

Thanks for having me. My goodness. One day I want to go, I want to understand why the Eaton Center in Toronto is still called the Eaton Center, when it could be called anything. They could sell the name.

That's what I'm thinking, man. Come on. Oh, I mean, the Ben Barrooney. We don't have money for that, sir. It's on now with your local metro. Save big on amazing items. Like a 12-pack, a selected Coca-Cola and Canada dry cans. 699 each and selected varieties of VH sauce just 244 each only till January 21st shop in store or at metro.ca.