The Ben Mulroney Show - Provincial Premiers set to meet and a Canadian judge declares the US dangerous for trans

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

- Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe - Adrienne Smith/Lawyer   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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stop you know how fast you were going I'm gonna have to write you a ticket to my new movie the naked gun Liam Nees. Buy your tickets now and get a free chili dog. Chili dog not included. The Naked God tickets on sale now August 1st. You're listening to the Alex Pearson show. Welcome back to the Ben... Oh, it's not Alex Pearson. That's... Hold on a second.

That's my bad. That's okay. That's okay. Hey, we all have those moments. But I had to stop myself for a second. I was like, what's wrong here? I am not Alex Pearson. I am Ben Mulroney.

A real pleasure to be with you today. And so next week is a big premieres conference where the leaders of this country are going to get together to talk about all sorts of issues. We're going to drill down on those things with our guest who's joining us right now, Premier Scott Moe of Saskatchewan. Premier, thanks so much for joining us again. Thank you so much. Hey, so before we get into the Premier's meeting, I do want to talk to you and ask you about the state of play in the fires, the wildfires that have been plaguing so many places across this country. We know that they are exceptionally bad in in Manitoba right now. But what's the state of play in Saskatchewan? Yeah, we're above our five-year average and I think more significant than that with the fires and the intensity of the fires in Saskatchewan. We've had significant loss of people's homes. That's almost 300 homes businesses have been lost and so pretty significant and

pretty severe in Saskatchewan and we've had to go beyond the resources that we have to fight the fires and support the evacuees financially as well. So we still have about 50 fires going, which is more than we'd like to have going for sure. Now, so I have to ask you, Premier, I have to ask you, as part of your response, have you sent any sort of note of apology to the congressmen and women south of the border, who have been so upset that we have been inconsiderate in Canada to their summer plans by allowing these fires to rage and the smoke to go across the border. You know, I say that tongue in cheek, but you know, there's, they wrote a letter, the congresspeople wrote a letter to our

ambassador to the United States, Kristen Hillman, saying, you guys have to do something about that, You know, there was, they wrote a letter, the Congress people wrote a letter to our ambassador to the United States, Kristen Hillman, saying, you guys have to do something about that because we can't cook out and we can't go camping because of your fires. Did you do anything about it? No, I didn't write a letter. And I would say that, you know,

Saskatchewan and comedian steelworkers are having a little bit of an unsettled summer as well due to some policies in the US. And so, you know, I didn't really take that too seriously. In fact, I had a chat with Ambassador Hoekstra about it just the other day and he was quite apologetic with respect to, you know, that being an issue coming out of Congress for some odd reason. And we have a strong relationship with the U.S. and we hope for that to continue despite some silly, yeah, but also some serious concerns between our nation.

Yeah, indeed, indeed. But you know, as we, as we look south of the border to fix what's broken there, we're also trying to fix, we're trying to get out of our own way in Canada to build the one Canadian economy, which I think every every Canadian should get behind. What is on the agenda for the premier's meeting? Well, I think from from our perspective, there will really be three things. And one is trade and market access. We see that changing in the international stage and with

countries like the US and China, but also interprovincial and we're making an offer. As we did that the Western careers meeting. The largest and simplest step forward to reduce trade barriers between provinces is for everyone to join the Western community trade agreement we have with the new west partnership agreement which was signed in 2010. That would be number one.

Number two, you heard the Prime Minister talk about Bill C5 and moving forward with COGEX across Canada. What that bill is is essentially legislating for the future of the You've heard the Prime Minister talk about Bill C5 and moving forward with projects across Canada. What that bill is, is essentially legislating our way through a very challenging and sometimes incoherent regulatory process. And so we agree with that. But we could also fix the regulatory process behind that. And then in Western Canada, and I would say more broadly,

we could attach various projects together. Once we have that regulatory process in place so that we can truly become an energy superpower of all kinds of energy, is, you know, how are we getting that to the countries around the world? And we propose the Port-to-Port corridor, which would help open up Asian and European markets, connecting Hudson Bay to

the Northwest ports. And then could be connected around to Eastern corridors as well and really connect Canada from coast to coast. And if we truly want to become a superpower economically in the G7 and want to become an energy superpower, these are the kinds of things that we're going to have to very much focus on and move forward together on. And so I would hope, and I think that's going to be a large part of the meeting is really our trade access, interprovincially and internationally, the regulatory environment we have and how we're pushing through that with Bill C-5,

and then how we're actually getting our products to market. Premier, what is your early assessment of this, this young, new liberal government under Mark Carney? Well, I would say they've been a little bit of a breath of fresh air to work with, you know, I'd barbie it for me. And I say this often, I haven't been part of the liberal booster club the last decade. But Prime Minister Carney and some around him are a breath of fresh air to work with, to listen and for us to listen. And I'm hopeful that we'll be able to find some landing spots on a number of regulatory policies that have been longstanding issues between our province and the federal government and other

provinces. And so I'm hopeful for, you know, cautiously optimistic, I might say that we really are going to come together and build a strong Canadian economy by supporting the 13 territorial and provincial economies that we have. But is it fair to say they are on the clock meaning like, words are great, and you know, working well together, but unless the rubber meets the road, and unless certain things change, then, then it's it's performance. and working well together, but unless the rubber meets the road, and unless certain things change,

then it's performance. It is. And that's true at any level of government. And I think that's in particular true given the last decade of really virtually signaling decisions that have been made by the previous Prime Minister. But the right words are coming out. And I do respect that.

And we do expect to have some action. And listen, we're willing to work with, you know, whether it be Minister Hodgson, Prime Minister Carney, whoever that is, we can move a bit on a number of topics in the greater interest of Canada. But there is going to have to be action from the federal government side,

and we look forward to it. Yeah, I heard the leader of the opposition, Pierre Poliev, a couple of days ago, give a speech where he said that everyone is going to have to get off of their, their ideological position and meet somewhere in the middle so that we can we can actually build things. And I think he was trying to get his, you know, to let everybody know that his party was going to be a little less, you know, intransigent on certain things

in order to find compromise. And I wonder if that's going to be a little less intransigent on certain things in order to find compromise. And I wonder if that's going to be part of the conversation when the premiers get together specifically with the premier of British Columbia and Quebec, who seem to want to scuttle what seems to be a national consensus on everybody working together for these, to find consensus on plans of national importance. Yeah, and I haven't spoken to Francois as much on a corridor type of project. I've spoken with all of the Western Premiers,

and there is an openness to the conversation. All signed the Western Premier's meeting where we agreed to support a port-to-port corridor from Hudson Bay to the Northwest Coast. So I think everyone is giving a little bit in this conversation, including myself. And I think we need to if we're truly going to

achieve the opportunity that lies before. Now, everybody sees the challenges. And the media is well reporting on the challenges that we have with geopolitical situations around the world, trade and tariff, and the challenges are very, very evident. In those challenges for our nation, if we can come together,

are truly some great opportunities. And I hope at this meeting, we're able to continue to build towards achieving those because Canada is poised for success. We just all need to set aside those ideological differences and start taking steps forward towards it with everyone included and involved. I don't have a lot of time left Premier Mo, but you've said twice now that Saskatchewan is willing to meet closer in the middle on certain things. Can you give our listeners an example of one of those issues that maybe you've you've held a long standing position on that you're willing to put some water in your wine

on? Yeah, whether it be you know, the whole emissions conversation, whether it be the industrial carbon tax, whether it be how we generate power in this province, we're trying to find a path forward that is yes,, yes, lower emissions and how we generate our electricity for people, for families, but also for industry here.

But we do need some time in order to transition our workforce, to transition likely to a nuclear power force working forward and even on the carbon tax. I think we can work through some of the industrial carbon tax conversations so that there still would be some degree of a of a carbon tax on industry, but we would recycle it back in

it's just into the investments. All right, we're making so there's some opportunities for us to work through the details. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it has to be we have to be competitive. Yeah. Well, Scott Mo, thank you so much for joining us. We wish you the very best of luck. And honestly, on behalf of everyone at the show, we stand with you on combating these fires, these fires across your province. Thank you very

much, Ben, for all you do on the show and communicating with me. All right, more to come. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And there is a story in the Globe and Mail today about a judge halting the deportation of a non-binary American over issues of how safe it might be in the United States to be trans or identify as non-binary. The federal court halted the deportation of Angel Jenkel, who's 24 years old, an artist from Minnesota, and they want to stay on deportation from this country and here to talk about that here

to talk about her victory in this case, it was the lawyer representing Angel Adrienne Smith, Adrian, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. And look, whether people on listening to this agree or disagree with this decision, it happened and we have to understand it. And what's what's going to happen moving forward. So I listen, I could relay the facts on the ground. Why don't you do that for us? So I think what the first thing that your listeners might be

interested in learning is that this was a really unique case in the sense that what the reason why the judge actually halted the removal of this individual was because the officer actually didn't properly consider the evidence that was before them. So there's a little bit of a nuance to this that that may be lost in in a headline. So what the officer did in this case is, you know, Angel has been in Canada since August 2022, entered as a visitor. They have a Canadian fiance who they're living with and have been living with for several years.

Their Canadian fiance actually suffers from really serious seizures. So, in the middle of the night, Angel's partner will have a seizure and Angel actually has to administer life-saving medication for their partner. That was one of the things that I think was lost in the decision. And that was one of the reasons why the judge said these individuals may face harm if Angel actually leaves Canada because their partner may also be impacted. So there's a Canadian citizen that's directly impacted by angel being in Canada. So angel has for the past couple of years been a committed caregiver.

Exactly. The only and primary caregiver to a Canadian citizen. Okay. And so, uh, and so, uh, uh, talk to me about the sticking point in terms of, uh, angel's visa and, and how it led to a deportation order. So the sticking point was that an angel takes full responsibility for this is that they didn't renew their visa and they should have done this and they've taken responsibility for that. They're eligible to file a permanent resident application under the family sponsorship program and are in the process of doing that. So what the judge said, and in the meantime, they were

given a date to be removed from Canada. They said, you know, because of my partner's health issues and the current erosion of country conditions in the United States that has happened for the trans and non-binary community, I am really concerned about going back to the United States right now for these two reasons. And what the officer did is they looked at the situation in the United States and they relied on a report from January 2024. So think about that for a second. What has happened in the United States since January 2024? It's essentially a different country. Yeah. Actually for the trans and non- binary community. So what the judge

said is the judge said, Well, how could the officer possibly look at whether this individual is going to face harm, if they didn't look at any documents after January 2024. And that was the legal error that the officer committed. And that was the reason why the judge actually stopped their removal. So this is far more interesting of a conversation than the article really suggests

because what you first brought up, like the primary caregiver thing, and forgetting to file and whatever, that's a human error, it happens. It seems to me like had the had had there there been a little more understanding on the Canadian government side, you wouldn't have had to go through the rigmarole of, of opening this up to a larger conversation about, you know, the, you know, going back to what you stated are believed to be an unsafe or less safe place for trans and non binary people and be I mean,

is this a precedent setting decision? So in our mind, it actually I don't think is as precedent setting as perhaps what the media is suggesting now. Right? Yeah, go on, please. This decision really isn't what's called an interlocutory decision. I know that's a legal term, but your listeners will understand that it's a temporary decision until angel can regularize their status, which they're entitled to do and are actually eligible to do.

Yeah, this is I gotta say what what I read was not was not what we're talking about right here. This is this is a far more personal and almost as you said said, nuanced and, and, and individual situation, then you know what some people some people are going to take this article and run with it, right. And they were going to say, Oh, this is going to open up the floodgates for anybody to claim, you know, refugee status, or they're going to that to come into the country because they don't like Donald

Trump. But it seems like this is a different story. status or they're going to that to come into the country because they don't like Donald Trump. But it seems like this is a different story. Exactly. And this is this is you know, what we have and we really appreciate you having us on today. And this is what we have, you know, tried to communicate in the interviews that we've done with the media, that even in our office, which specializes in doing LGBTQ immigration, for most individuals that contact me, I am not currently recommending that they make a refugee claim in Canada.

The refugee definition is very specific, and only a few people are going to meet that definition. Angel's case is really unique. And our primary argument was actually about them needing to be a caregiver. And can I can we can we stop there for one second? Listen, if there's one, if there's one drum that we beat on this show, it's that is that our health care crisis, our health care system as in in crisis, if there is somebody and I'm not trying to be glib here,

this is a matter of fact, if there is somebody in this country, who is here, who wants to be here, and they they have said and gone on record, I want to take care of somebody, I want to be the primary caregiver to somebody in a world where our healthcare system is all messed up. I think we should treat that person with great respect and deference. And if they screwed up and forgot to fill out a form, you know what? Okay, fine, let's help you because you're gonna, you're gonna be taking pressure off of our healthcare system

that desperately needs it. We should be, we should be doing everything we can to keep Angel here, not sending them anywhere in the world they don't wanna be. Exactly, I mean, if I had the serious health issue that Angel's partner had, I would only be so lucky to have someone like Angel in my life taking care of me. They have done an incredible service to this Canadian citizen.

What is that? What are the rules around being able to stay in Canada if you do get married? I mean, we've all heard the stories in the United States about the green card, and if somebody marries an American citizen, they can prove that they are in love, then the person can stay. What are the rules here? Like if Angel and their partner got married tomorrow, what would happen? So, I mean, it's a rigorous assessment, first off, about the genuineness of their relationship,

which in this case is not an issue. There's clearly a genuine relationship. What Angel needs to do is needs to file, and what other individuals need to do is make sure that they stay in temporary status while they're waiting for their spousal sponsorship to be processed. Okay. So that's a bit of a nuance. Most people don't understand. They think, okay, I'm going to file a sponsorship and then I can stay. Yeah. And that's actually not what the rules say.

This is a fascinating, fascinating conversation. What the the state of play in terms of how many? How many members of the trans community in the United States are looking to leave the United States either to come to Canada or elsewhere? I mean, because we specialize in this area, we obviously are, you know, inundated every day with these exact types of requests for individuals that want to leave. The primary group that's actually contacting me and I think that if you're a parent you can understand this. Most people that are contacting me have a trans child who is living in the United

States who is terrified for the country that they're growing up in and their inability to get life-saving gender-affirming health care. That's the primary group that's contacting me. And you know, I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for parents that are put in that position right now her living in the United States. Well, Adrienne Smith, I want to thank you for coming on to the show and and sort of unpacking this in a way that I did not expect I want to congratulate you on your victory. I want to

congratulate Angel and her and their partner on this victory as well. And I think our listeners if if they were expecting one conversation, I think they got something else and very happy to have participated in it. Thank you so much. We appreciate the nuance as well. the It'd be all other compact cars for exceptional reliability, value, and safety to become Consumer Reports 2025 Top Pick. Right now, lease the 2025 Sentra for the equivalent of $59 weekly for 36 months. Hurry into your local dealer today. SCVT for $256 monthly with $2,895 down at 3.49%.

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