The Ben Mulroney Show - Rx for Exercise?

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

⁠NHS to give shopping vouchers to people who walk 20 minutes a day⁠ Should Canada implement this type of incentive to improve patient health and reduce overall costs on the system? Dr. Andrew Boozary, a primary care physician, policy practitioner, researcher, and founding executive director of the Gattuso Centre for Social Medicine joins Ben to discuss this important issue. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube --⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at ⁠https://x.com/BenMulroney⁠ Insta:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠⁠   Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at ⁠[e-mail]⁠ Enjoy   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Well, this story that we're starting with Canada is one I'm glad we're talking about today. It was sort of a last-minute decision. There was a headline that crossed our desk that said the NHS,

the National Health Service in the UK, is going to give shopping vouchers to people who walk 20 minutes a day. And it brought me back to, God, it got to be at least a dozen conversations that I've had on this show that we're on which we've touched on the idea of the health benefits, of the obvious health benefits of getting outdoors, walking, getting your heart rate up, getting the sun on your skin, going for a hike, walking your dog,

anything, anything. Going to the gym. All of those things, there are, from what I understand, there are not just, it's not just a correlation to better health outcomes, but there is causation as well. And so knowing that we have an overburdened, stressed out health care system in this country, I wanted to talk to somebody about putting the question out there,

is it time for doctors to be able to, in a very official and legal way, start prescribing exercise? If the evidence is there and it's free and it's going to lead to better health outcomes and it's going to therefore take pressure off of the health care system, maybe it's time we took what I think in this simpleton's brain is that essential step here with a far more depth of knowledge and more. more nuance is Dr. Andrew Buzari. He's a primary care physician, policy practitioner, researcher, and founding executive director of the Gatuzzo Center for Social Medicine. Doctor, welcome. Thanks so much, Ben. Looking forward to the conversation. Okay, did I say anything that you

think, okay, I got to correct this, this, this, this dullard? No, I think you've unpacked it in a way that I think there's been lots of discussion for a long time about the idea of social prescribing is sort of how we've been framing and seeing this work over the last 10 to 20 years. And I think it's been really encouraging to see the NHS, the national health system, as you mentioned, the UK, look to invest in some of these programs. As we know, that exercise or movement is one of the most powerful medicines that we have outside of the hospital or clinic spaces. And I think when we look at a lot of the evidence around social prescribing, we've seen some really good uptake, some really good effectiveness in terms of whether it's, trying to ensure people have access to healthier foods, access to more exercise programs. And again, it's not that the power of the physician's pen somehow transforms people's lives,

but it's this encouragement and better integration of encouraging prevention, of encouraging some of the things that people can do to have agency in their lives, to avoid seeing some of either chronic disease like diabetes or heart failure, to also issues like cancer risks. So we know that we're seeing more and more disease burden in our system, especially with these chronic diseases we've talked about. And so I think we're going to have to look at various avenues of how we reach more people and ensure that people can have more supports to do it. So I think the vouchers and incentives are an interesting component of this. But we have to be really clear out about the fact that when we look at some of the evidence, being close to green space or walkable neighborhoods has a really important effect. And so you can try to prescribe all the...

vouchers you the ability to do that or to be able to access some of those spaces or walkable spaces. That's something where we know there'll be limited effectiveness. But see, Doc, I think that there is actually, in my mind, there is a difference between a doctor telling a patient. You know what you would really benefit from, a 20-minute walk every day. It'll do your wonders, trust me, I promise you. That's one thing. But if a doctor pulls out their prescription pad and prescribes a 20-minute walk a day, and I concede it would be better if people were close to green space.

But, you know, I got in the best shape of my life by walking on sidewalks to work a couple of years ago. And I nary a park did I see. But I think there's something we trust our doctors. And if our doctors pull up the prescription pad, well, then it's not a suggestion. It's not like some guy we're talking to on the subway. It's this is an order from my doctor to improve. This is what's going to help me get healthy. And I just have this feeling that if it was something that could be done,

I think it would absolutely, there'd be more uptake. I mean, I'm sure some people listen to their doctors when they say, hey, go for a walk. I think more would listen if it was on a little piece of paper. Well, I'm really encouraged by that. And it's great to see you as a champion for social prescribing. I think that would be welcome, you know, across the health system. I think that there has been, again, some really important studies showing that for many patients, being able to receive that script, has some real credibility

or seeing the sort of seriousness that people want to see this as part of their medical regimen to do so. And I think that, again, it's not just about green spaces. Of course, it's also about whether people can have the flexibility in work, whether people can afford some of the nutritious food and produce that we've been talking about to see these effects take place. So I think it's an important part of a more comprehensive way of trying to define health, having our health system start to embrace a lot of these different initiatives that can help improve health outcomes. But it's not going to be a silver bullet. But I think given the real challenges that we're seeing, one, I think you raised a really important point. There's a lot of misinformation out there

through social media, through various channels in terms of what is actually improving health. We see a lot of paid advertising for whether it's supplements or other products that people purport to have. Doctor, it's peptides. It's all peptides today. If you're not, if you're not ride this peptide wave, yeah. We'd all look like you. And I think that's the challenge is right, that I think the realities are that we need to see some of the evidence and rigor that we'd have in the same way we prescribe diabetes medications. And to your point about walking, I think, and it's a really important point. We know that a lot of the guidelines that have been out there in terms of some of the really important benefits for patients is that if you can walk or have

moderate exercise for 150 minutes a week, you can see real tangible benefits to your health outcomes. And again, whether that's coming through a physician's pen or more of that getting out there for people understand because there's a lot of intimidation or there's a lot of challenges and obstacles people feel to try to exercise or the idea is that you go online. It's if you're not doing CrossFit, then you're failing in terms of getting the health benefits. But there's really important marginal gains that can be there, even through moderate exercise or abilities to walk more frequently. And I think we just need to make sure we're taking a system approach and not saying, again, here's the silver bullet. It'll be from a physician's prescription or pad. And then we're going to be able to solve the chronic disease burden in the country. So I just think being clear-eyed about where we can see some improvements will be really, really helpful.

And I agree. Because I think there's a difference between somebody, you know, who wants to look shredded without their shirt to get their summer bod and thinking that, you know, a quick little stroll around the neighborhood's going to get them there. I mean, I'm talking about people for whom, you know, their mental health is strained. And that's leading to sort of, you know, that they're on there, the mid-40s, early 50s, where that additional 20 pounds is, it's weighing on them. And all those negative comorbidities are a risk, you know, the heart disease and the hypertension and all of that. And yes, of course, there's all sorts of other things.

But, I mean, there are a lot of people that are on that cusp. and if something that costs absolutely nothing except a little bit of time could come from with the deferential power of the prescription pad and in a lot of cases all of those comorbidities would come down and therefore that person would remain productive and be not be a burden on the health care system 10 years later. I can't see a way where that doesn't make sense. Again, I think you're in line with a lot of the evidence that there are really important returns on investment for some of these measures. I think you also raise an important point in this discussion is how can we be more creative as a discipline to engage patients and communities for agency in their own lives that do not result or resort to medications solely for patients.

And I think this is again, this movement towards prevention. When we look again at the evidence, some moderate exercise can see reduction. as you noted, in diabetes rates by 20 to 30 percent on mental health. These are some of the real important outcomes that I think we need to really stress. And I appreciate us being able to have this conversation because there's a lot of misinformation out there. Well, if you ever have any other misinformation, we want to bust through like the peptides, you come on back. Dr. Andrew Buzari. Thank you very much for your time today.

I appreciate it. Thanks so much.