The Ben Mulroney Show - Should we adopt New York's Congestion Charge here in Canada?

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -Should we adopt New York's Congestion Charge here in Canada? -Three hostages arrive in Israel for tearful reunions as fragile Gaza ceasefire passes first hurdle with Guest: Kevin Vuong, Member of Parliament -Protests derail Freeland's launch, and Tik Tok Television? -Judge agrees to expedite legal challenge of Trudeau’s move to prorogue Parliament with Guest: James Manson, Lawyer Charter Advocates Canada If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And now is the time where we turn it over over to you. I want to hear your opinions at

416-870-6400 or 1-888-225. Talk, we're talking congestion charges. Manhattan has seen almost 50,000 fewer cars per day, thanks to a new congestion charge. Now, let me give you some numbers. One week into implementation, total traffic in the area that was told dropped by seven and a half percent compared to the equivalent period last year. Now in Toronto, a 2023 study estimated that congestion costs the GTA $11 billion a year. New York is not alone, London, Stockholm, Singapore, they've all implemented congestion charges in an effort to tame gridlock. So should it be considered here? I mean, it would likely cut down on congestion big time, it would raise revenue for the city's

that's those I think are just expected anticipated facts that we can expect down the line. A lot of people are against this. A lot of people but this city is being choked by congestion. And if that's the case, if it really is being choked, shouldn't every option be on the table? So if you're in, if you're in traffic right now, if you're coming into the city, what would what would you think at the prospect of being charged $5 $10 every time you come into the city? I'd love to hear from you at 416-870-6400

or one triple eight two to five talk. Look, I don't have to do that every day. I live in the city. So I am not against it. But I'm not I'm not somebody who comes into the city every day. I want to hear from you. And I'm again, just because I say that I'm for it. Don't come at me like I'm your enemy. I think we have to be everyone has to be attacking this problem together. And in New York, just so everybody knows. They're charged $9, a congestion charge of nine US dollars for vehicles traveling on in weekdays from 5am to 9pm and on weekends from 9am to 9pm, motorcycles pay 450 and they use a license plate reader like they do on the 407. And then I guess you get a bill in the mail. So we lose 11 billion in congestion charges. And another estimate, another estimate that congestion costs us $47 billion in lost economic opportunities. That's a lot of money to leave on the table. And so if we could come up with a system where we charge x amount, maybe it's a flat fee, maybe you register, and you're just charged every year, or every month, you

get a bill. And then, and that money gets diverted to, I don't know, increases in in go transit for people to take the train in as opposed. Let's talk to Tom, he's on the 400 right now, Tom, what say you this should Toronto implement a congestion charge? They should have done this years ago, but the problem is that the city officials they're so lackluster. They can't you know, they can't put two sentences together without costing billions of dollars in fact, there's I was telling your screener in London, they've had this for many years to drive in the

city center is something posted on your windshield that you have to pay for. Yeah. And usually, usually that would be for taxis, that'd be for service repair, people like myself that would go into the city. And in Toronto, what they should do, because they've really never beefed up or added to their infrastructure over all these years. All the money that went to consultants, it's went to out the windows, so to speak. Yeah. And what they should do, I think at minimum

is have vicinities around the city with large parking areas. The majority of the people are coming into the city. So I don't think Toronto residents should pay for this. They live there. They pay a lot as it is to live in the city. But if you have many TPC buses going through the city, okay, you make it more feasible and easier to get around. Because that's the state that people are not going to think because the TPC isn't good.

Exactly. Yeah, Tom, Tom, I want to thank you. I got a lot of other calls to get to. But thank you very much. And you know, he listen, he brings it up, you have to have if there's a congestion charge, in my humble opinion, that has to come with a commensurate rise in investment in public transit. Let's welcome Catherine to the show Catherine, what say you congestion charge? Hi, good morning. Good morning. I again, like everything, I don't think it's a black and white issue. It's very nuanced. I'm going to actually echo what you and the previous caller said, if

we're going to have a congestion charge, we need improved public transit. You mentioned buses this weekend. The Yonge-Bourne line was completely closed and at Yonge-York Mills near my house there was a gazillion buses lined up. So we have to have public transit that's available. And we know that at Eglinton Crosstown, I don't know how much we've wasted without not working. So that's the first point. And the second point, if we are going to charge it, it's not a bad idea, like, you know, pay fees, I think it's not a bad idea. We do need revenue for the city. We'd also like to know where that revenue

is going. A couple of days ago, you had the mayor on and Livia Chow didn't really have any concrete numbers to provide where our tax dollars are going so yeah thank you Catherine and and listen yeah so from what I understand about the City Hall I guess there's some kind of like the general revenue and this money should not go to like general spending at City Hall because that's just a rat hole and you lose it there needs to be a commitment that if the city does go down the route of congestion charges, there has to be a direct line between the money raised

and improved transit in the city and getting into the city. So go transit in the TTC. If that doesn't happen, then the whole thing is gonna fall apart. Let's welcome Max to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks so much for joining us. Good morning, Ben. So you're probably a pretty well traveled guy, I would assume.

You've been to probably a number of American cities. They were all built very differently than Toronto was. Right. They all have a number of highways going in. They have a lot of one way streets. They foresaw their growth way better than we did as a city and they built out accordingly. Every like you know we have what two highways going into Toronto, New York has like what 10? No, but like it truly matters because everybody beats the highways by taking residential streets into the city. Yeah.

Hence our congestion, right? So the city, instead of like, oh, it works in New York, it's going to work here. Queen Street needs to be a one way street. King Street needs to be a one way street. Young Street needs to be a one way street. We have way easier lower hanging potential solutions than beating people over the head with another tax that is only going to frustrate people more in the city. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. And listen,

he's right. This is not, there's no one magic bullet to help. But I go back to what we just saw in Manhattan, 7.5%. Do you think the city would be more manageable with a seven to 10% drop in congestion and people coming into the city? And by the way, seven to 10% drop in congestion and people coming into the city. And by the way, that's not people coming in. Cause there would be all alternatives to driving in again, if we can improve and, and provide a robust, reliable go train that is run with more trains that run more often that are cleaner, that are safer, that are have a better wifi.

You put all of that on the table and more people will migrate to that. Absolutely that will happen. You give people a reason to take public transit, they will take public transit. Dean, welcome to the show. Good morning. Good morning. So I live next door in Durham region and I try to avoid going to Toronto as much as possible. That said, I don't agree with this whole notion. The province gives Toronto hundreds of millions of dollars a year for their TTC, a service

that the vast majority of Ontarians will never get to benefit from and have nothing similar to in their own communities. On top of that, living in the Durham region, we have about 1,600 acres roughly of shoreline taken out with two nuclear plants. The biggest benefactor being Toronto because they refuse to host their own power plant. They lost the hern back in the 80s and refused to sell you their their lake shore with anything. So I think Durham region search to start charging a tariff. The biggest benefactor of these two

nuclear plants take up all the shoreline is Toronto. All right. Hey, listen, I appreciate the counterpoint, sir. Thank you very much. Let's welcome Dan to the show. Dan, what's your opinion on congestion charges? Good morning, Ben and compliments to all your callers. There are testaments to the intelligence of your listeners. I have nothing to do with it. But I'm glad they join us every day.

I worked in New York twice a month for 20 years. And I could tell you, in same with London, same with Singapore, same with all the cities you mentioned, what they have is a subway stop on every block, every corner. They have a cohesive complete network of trains that spread right throughout the suburbs. You can take in multiple trains, multiple bridges. I can go from West Chester through down to New Jersey anywhere on a train for a couple of bucks. Dan, listen, you're not saying anything I don't agree with. I

agree with all of that. I think it's shameful that for, you know, a couple of generations, the city of Toronto punted the ball and didn't build tunnels. I think if we had built this thing about over a course of 45 years had we built a one kilometer of subway tunnel every year, I can do that math. That's 45 kilometers of underground tunnels that could be servicing all parts of the city. We didn't do that. But we do have to start somewhere.

So Dan, I put the question to you. If there was a congestion charge and every single dollar was directed to public infrastructure, like the GO train, like subways, like like the LRT like like buses, what you got to start somewhere. So why not start there? Oh, I guess I lost it. But so I put that to everyone that I don't I don't know that that's an unreasonable conversation to have. I know some people have a knee jerk reaction and say I don't want to have to pay for Toronto, but you do come in and you make your living in Toronto.

You do come in and there is wear and tear on the roads of Toronto, and then you go back to your home. So there's an argument he said like, if you're gonna come in and take advantage of the city, shouldn't you pay into it a little bit? Let's welcome Sonia to the show. Sonia, good morning.

Good morning. I agree to a certain point, but I'm wondering where all the money is going. Well, that's yeah, that's that you keep going. But that's a very good question. Anglington LRT. My daughter had a function at Mount Pleasant, Red Pass and Anglington area. Knowing there isn't any parking York Mills, the line one was shut down. And I'm driving along the Anglington LRT. It's a big black hole. And you should have seen the traffic. It was unbelievable. Oh, yeah. And it shouldn't happen. Why isn't that open? Sonia, like, no, I still don't understand why every weekend when I'm driving around my in my neighborhood, and I cross Yonge Street, I see a train of buses, because the the young

lines closed. Like, why is that happening? Why is it closed? And it's I think it's every weekend, it doesn't make any sense to me that we spend so much money. There is waste, there is redundancy, there is there. There are bureaucrats that are, I don't know, I don't know where the money goes. I genuinely don't. But there should be a direct line between some of the money that we pay in taxes and I guess to use Al Gore's expression a lockbox put it in there and spend it on what people really need which is robust, well managed, reliable public transit. Let's welcome who do we have here now Now we've got Jimmy, Jimmy, welcome to the show. Hi, I actually don't agree with the congestion tax because I mean, the I live in New Market. So I've been here for almost four years. And the transit is

extremely poor, you need a car to get around. And for me, I go to work at shepherd and 404. So the if I would I when I calculate on Google Maps to get around. And for me, I go to work at Shepherd and 404. So the if I would I when I calculate on Google Maps to get to work by transit over two hours, and I have two young kids. So it's almost like no option. Oh, no. And listen, Jimmy, and thank you for adding to the conversation, because these are important things to hear. It's, you know, I don't believe that everybody would be happy. I believe a huge constituency of people would be livid and their lives would be made more difficult, at least in the short term

before the build out of better options to get people into the city. And one thing that isn't discussed in sort of this, the positive reviews of what's going on in Manhattan was what the fire department of New York said. They were livid that the city didn't consult them. What they said, they had a press conference and the leadership of the FDNY came out and said, a great many of our members who do not live in Manhattan drive their own personal vehicles into the city each and every day. And their generosity allows us to use their vehicles whenever we have excess payloads, excess equipment or excess personnel that we need to get to emergencies.

Those people are no longer driving their cars in. We cannot leverage the generosity of our members anymore. And that is already presenting problems for the fire department of New York in real time. And so what if there were certain carve outs that were permitted? What if certain what if certain days were exempt? I don't know. I just don't think we should reject it out of hand because it would change certain people's dynamics. I think it's

something that needs to be on the table because the numbers of 11 billion and 47 billion are too big to ignore. Let's welcome Sue to the show. Sue, let's say you. Hi Ben, nice talk to you. First time talking to you. Well, thank you for calling. But I listen to the station every day, every day.

So my thing is I work, I live in Leeside and I commute to Etobicoke. I take the Gardner every single day back and forth. So you're a reverse commuter? Yeah, I'm out. I don't go into the city, I go out. But going back home, it's like a drop of rain, you know, a snowflake, it's a car accident, whatever. It's horrific, horrific coming home. So I don't mind a toll at all. My worry is, hey, I wouldn't be taking TTC. My job really doesn't, I can't really do it. I'm in sales so I have to have to have a car but there are days where I work from the office and don't go yeah so I don't mind taking the TTC but I want it to be safe exactly and I think

that's what I'm hearing from a lot of people and thank you so much for calling that is a lot of people would use public transit if it were more robust, more extensive and safer. And it's sort of a chicken or an egg thing. What do we do? As far as I can see, the only way to do it is congestion charge first with a guarantee that all of that money is funneled into what I was just talking about. But there are other things that we could do as well. For example, the idea of dynamic lane changes like we have on on Jarvis, where at certain times a day, there are more lanes going north than there are south, you could do that on the Gardner, you could do that on the Don Valley Parkway, so that you have more bandwidth when you need it, and then a reduced bandwidth when you don't. I think these are,

this is low hanging fruit that we could explore. And of course, in Toronto, exploring means 10 or 15 year feasibility studies, but it is what it is. Who do we have next? We've got Joel. Joel, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, morning. Happy New Year, Ben. Happy New Year. Look at the other day where there was that truck. The truck was loaded and it turned over. It was carrying cases and cases of Vicks Vaporub. And amazingly enough,

there wasn't any congestion for eight hours. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm just thinking is, you know what, like we don't need any more tax, okay? You know, what we need to do is really focus in extending, you know, our subway systems. I mean it

still goes up the finch crazy after all these years. So again you know we're such in debt this province and you know giving more money and it's just going to be spent unwisely as my opinion goes and we just need to really work on you know really making the TPC better, safer, but really enlarging it. And I think maybe we don't have to pay it. Maybe more people will take the transit. You know, it's more on the car too. It's more on the car. Well, listen, what is it in this case?

I'm a driver, right? And you're, you're always going to hear me defending drivers, because I do believe that within the city, there is a push to get people out of their cars without giving them other alternatives and there is a lot of self-inflicted congestion but in the case of people coming into the city we the equation is off kilter there are too many people in their cars coming out to too small real estate and we have to address that what we there have to be fewer cars on our roads it's at least coming into the city.

And how we do that, I'm open to talking about it. I know I'm pushing the idea of congestion charges, but I'm not married to it. And I do appreciate everyone calling in. Bet MGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, the Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600

to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News brings the story to you live. Hundreds of wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canada.

This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. Last week there was a glimmer of hope that we could be nearing the end of the hostilities in the Israel Hamas war with a ceasefire in the offing which came into effect on Sunday and three hostages arrived home in Israel to tearful reunions with their family. But the scenes from Gaza were terrifying.

I've never seen anything like this as these three brave women who had endured hell on Earth and were leaving that hell to return home. Thousands of men. Gathered in the streets streets looked like they were overwhelming the trucks that were just trying to bring them home. Innocent girls. God knows the horror that they experienced in the death tunnels underneath Gaza. And these men, in my estimation, consumed by hate, were trying to get at those women, even though a ceasefire was directing Hamas

to let them go home. Let's listen to the audio. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] Yeah, that's enough of that. That went on and on and on. What shameful behavior. I could go on alone for I don't know how long, but rather than do that, let's talk to somebody who was in the vicinity, who's in Tel Aviv right now, Kevin Vong, member of parliament and currently in Israel and a staunch and clear voice

against Hamas over the past 16 months welcome to the show Kevin thanks for having me Ben Kevin you're what how many miles are you away from Gaza so right now I'm in southern Israel so we were in Tel Aviv I'm in southern Israel I'm 17 clicks from Gaza and what's the sentiment there? This this idea that three women have been returned home, but 2000 2000 prisoners have been released from Israel just that doesn't to me feel like a fair trade, but it is the bargain that was struck. That's right. There was, I can tell you, Ben, I was in the

middle of a briefing, when we got news that the three women were released and the people who were giving me a briefing, they were, they were veterans, hardened veterans, folks who had been in Gaza and you could see the relief and joy fill the room. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important to be clear about the, this isn't, you know, some people have characterized it as some sort of a hostage exchange.

It's not a hostage exchange. It is a hostage rescue deal where three innocent women were essentially exchanged for, to put it in Canadian terms, essentially Paul Bernardos. These are convicted criminals, people who have murdered and killed innocent civilians in Israel, and the people of Israel value life. And so they did whatever they needed to do to bring their people home. And the people on the streets of Tel Aviv, are they emboldened? Are they hopeful this morning? I think there was an air of hope. People are praying now that the six-week deal will bring home, hopefully, the rest of the hostages. But they know that there's a price that they have to pay. And that is there's a 1 to 30 ratio of hostages they hope to get back.

And they have to, in exchange, give 30 convicted criminals, murderers, and that's something they're willing to do. What else are you going to be doing while you're there? For earlier today, Ben, I toured a Yehalom base, I met with the tunnel unit. These are people who are going into the tunnels. And they showed us the training tunnel and what they had to go through and I can tell you we were maybe

a hundred meters into the training tunnel and I was feeling claustrophobic. I couldn't begin to imagine what that's like. They're taking us through the process of what they need to do to not only keep themselves safe but we learned that Hamas will sometimes bury hostages who have passed away into the tunnels and so they are very careful not only to keep themselves safe but they also want to bring back the remains. They value their people. And I think Canadians back home need to ask themselves, you played the audio, who do you stand with?

Do you stand with the hostages or do you stand with the hostage takers? And every time someone steps out onto our street and propagates the Hamas propaganda, that is who they're standing with. They are standing with hostage takers and telling them that we support you and to keep doing that. Well, and our prime minister last week said that he hoped that this hostage for prisoner deal would turn down the temperature in Canada.

And we have audio that we played last week that that will absolutely not happen because you have pro Hamas terrorists who want for whom it's not about that. It's about driving Israel into the sea. They said as much in their protest, I played it. And a lot of people came for me, the the Hamas mob online came for me. And it's part and parcel of standing up for Israel and standing up for Jews. And it's part and parcel of standing up for Israel and standing up for Jews. If you do that, you're going to get pushback. Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of

State, he's got protesters outside of his home harassing him and his family. And I blink and now. We want justice, you say how? We want justice, you say how? And I blink and now. Yeah, I mean, that's disgusting behavior, Kevin. I have to assume that you've had your own share of it because you've bravely stood up to the mob.

And that's what they are. They're a mob. Yeah, and unfortunately, the mob. And that's what they are. They're a mob. Yeah. And unfortunately, the mob was also followed my wife, stalked my wife, they put up posters all around our home, saying Kevin sports genocide and all that garbage. And yet, how can we on the same time, if we're to believe what they say, that they are the victims of genocide, somehow they've turned around and said, we've claimed victory.

There's no victory if you're the target of genocide. Right, so make that make. No, no, of course. But it's not supposed to, it's not supposed to make sense, Kevin. It's not governed by fact, it's governed by feeling. That's right. And magically yesterday,

all of a sudden they found all their uniforms, right? And are no longer able to, you know, aren't wearing their civilian clothes, hiding amongst the population and using them as human shields. Like how convenient. Yeah. And so how, I know you've dealt with this.

I mean, has it ever gotten so difficult that you doubted whether you could continue being such a vocal opponent to Hamas? No, I've been the way I view it is I have no choice. Because the people who hate Jews will also hate me for being Asian will hate my wife and I for being Catholic. And what they are willing to do and support the kidnapping of, you know, I pray like I

think many people around the world and especially here in Israel for the release of the Bebus family, especially Kefir Bebus, right, who has spent the majority of his life, he's two now, in captivity. If they're willing to do that to that baby, they're willing to do the same to my little daughter who's just a little over three months old. We have no choice. Yeah. And this is a fight for all of us.

Yeah, and you're right. And listen, we can extend it beyond that. I mean, we're seeing what life in Canada could be like a few years from now on the play out on the streets of London and in Germany. It's no longer, it's not about the protest. It's not protesting what's going on in Israel. It's about regime change at home. It's not about the protest. It's not protesting what's going on in Israel. It's about regime change at home.

That's right. It's it's attack on Canadian values in the UK. There have been members of parliament who have been murdered in the UK when there was there was what was perceived potentially a controversial vote that could be twisted and spun as anti Muslim, which it wasn't. They had to vote in secret because they were afraid that MPs could be targeted. That's not a democracy. That is an erosion.

Kevin, we're going to leave it there, but thank you so much. You keep up the fight, my friend. Take care of that. Last week was all about Mark Carney throwing his hat into the ring to succeed Justin Trudeau as liberal leader and as the Prime Minister of our country. And there was some good to his launch. There was some bad. There was some bad branding. I think his logo looked a little too much like somebody else's logo. So he changed the logo. And now that logo looks like somebody else's logo as well. But this week is all about Christia Freeland, who yesterday launched her bid to compete with

Mark Carney. And she's pitching herself as a tested Trump negotiator. And all on the backdrop of protesters disrupting her launch. Let's listen to one of the many protesters. We have voters, how can we have voters? The three will keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking.

Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. So for context, the launch happened inside a gymnasium

at a boys and girls club. And there was no security of any meaningful way. There were no cops there. My dad used to say that a person's superpower is to have the ability to see how other people see you. Christy Freeland has been part of a government that is deeply unpopular, deeply unpopular. And in a lot of ways she is viewed as for better or for worse, as the female embodiment of Justin Trudeau. She stood shoulder to shoulder with him, announcing and rolling out policies that are deeply unpopular.

They anger people on a toxic level. They anger people. So for her not to have security there speaks to the bubble that so many of these liberals have been living in for so long. The fact that she thought that there would not be protesters, that she didn't need security. It speaks to a larger problem within that party. need security. It speaks to a larger problem within that party. And the fact that these protesters, these pro-Palestinian protesters weakened her launch when she's been part of an extremely pro-Palestinian government is proof that when you give these protesters space, they want to take even more space. When you say, oh, yes, you have the right to protest.

They don't want just want to protest. They want to disrupt. They want to control. They want to dominate. They want to influence. They want more. You give them something. They want more. This is a government that said that if Benjamin Netanyahu,

the democratically elected leader of our ally, the only democracy in the Middle East, were to set foot in Canada, he would be arrested by the RCMP for war crimes. This is a government that has been open to the idea of recognizing Palestinian statehood. This is a government that for years refused to declare the IRGC a terrorist entity. They are they are they are not pro-Palestinian,

but that's not enough for some of these protesters. It will never be enough for some of these protesters. And so you get the chaos that ensued, you get the chaos that ensued and, and you reap what you sow. So we're going to be digging more, more deeply into the Christian freelance Freeland launch a little bit later in the show. Meanwhile, another story that so many people have been following is the death and rebirth of

TikTok. So we know that there was a bipartisan law that was passed in the United States that was to ban TikTok for security reasons. If an if a buyer, an American buyer was not found, that didn't happen. So the platform was turned off. And so many people panicked over that. And then it was turned back on the very next day. But what I found really interesting back on the very next day. But what I found really interesting was the, there was a message that greeted people the next day when they came onto TikTok that said,

as a result of President Trump's efforts, TikTok is back in the US. This is masterful work by Donald Trump because he was one of the leading voices pushing to ban TikTok. Then he changed his mind and he's getting credit for bringing it back. But they're still looking for a buyer, right?

I think Donald Trump can extend the life of TikTok but only so long. I think it's about 90 days that they have. And there is a buyer on the table. Kevin O'Leary along with Frank McCourt, the former owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers have put together what they call a syndicate that wants to buy tick tock. It's not without its challenges, because this special sauce of tick tock

is their special algorithm that was something that the Chinese have said they will never give up. So they would have to come up with a new and better way to make tick tock new and better. And Kevin O'Leary is not without his plans. Here's what he told a journalist, Kevin, let's say you buy tick tock, you will now have this revamped American version. But you'd be going head to head with some big companies with smart engineers and some of the

deepest pockets out there. I mean, meta and alphabet, you know, Snap, and those are just the big players. What would be your competitive advantages in that space? 170 million users. That's my competitive advantage, but it gets better. When we solve this problem for parents and for companies and for the government, which will not use this product, when we solve it, we'll immediately increase our base, but it gets better. Frank and I are going to fly over to India and meet with Modi and say, listen, why don't we light up those 210 million users you turned off

in 2020? Same with Switzerland, France, Germany, England, Canada. Why not create the world's largest television network that's based on freedom of speech and democracy. Who doesn't want to do that? Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a pretty bold vision, right? A pretty bold vision. Tick-tock TV, 17% of adults regularly get their news from Tick-tock with younger adults. It's even higher. They're the most frequent users of Tick-tock for news. 40% of adults aged 18 to 29 regularly get their news from Tick if you could entrench some form of news gathering within tik tok professionalize it add the

checks and balances that make it real journalism, real news, you could you could create a behemoth, you could do something that doesn't currently exist in the world. And if and if you could also figure out a way and he touched on it at the beginning of those remarks, if you could do something about the dumbification of kids, and it is a dumbification. As somebody once said, the Chinese use tik tok to learn algebra, our kids use it to learn how to eat Tide pods. It's it's that's a fact the version of TikTok that exists in China is not the version that exists

in North America. And we really don't spend enough time asking ourselves why there are time limits for kids in China with TikTok not so in in North America. There are content restrictions. Kids in China that use their version of TikTok. It's all educational, all of it here. Well, it is what it is. And there are some benefits to it. There are great communities that are built around it. But as somebody who doesn't use it, you may view me as an old fuddy duddy to use the word of Trudeau.

To me, if it disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't change my life one iota. If it disappeared tomorrow, I guarantee you it would make my kids better versions of themselves. They wouldn't like it. But all of a sudden, they're not doom scrolling for hours, looking at content that in no way enriches their lives in no way. As a matter of fact, it might help because they seem stuck on this ridiculous alpaca haircut that I just far too many kids look the same. They'll have that dumb haircut. And I love my boys. They're so good looking. But geez, I wish they would change

their haircut. I just don't I don't get it. I don't get it. If somebody can explain to me why that trend is still around. Anyway, lots more to talk about on that front as well. So on January 6, our Prime Minister stood in front of Rideau cottage and announced that he would eventually be stepping down. But he also said that he'd gone to the governor general. And she had agreed to his request to prorogue But he also said that he'd gone to the governor general and she had agreed to his request to prorogue parliament,

wiping the legislative slate clean and pausing meetings of the House of Commons and the Senate. And this set off a chain of events where lawyers decided that there was something wrong with this, something fishy. So on Monday, January 6th, we spoke with James, on January 8th, rather, we spoke with James Manson, lawyer

for Charter Advocates Canada about a legal challenge to the prorogation. And we he is joining us now with an update. James, I hear you got good news for your side. Hi, hi, Ben, again. Thanks again for having me. Yes, yes, I yes, indeed. I can report that we've had some good news on the decision. Um, when last we spoke, Ben, um, we were working furiously to try to, um, to, to have the court. Oh, James, are you there? Yeah, I'm here.

Yeah, so repeat, you were working furiously to have the court. Oh, to have the court determine that this was an urgent matter and needed to be expedited, you know, so that it could be heard very quickly. And I'm pleased to announce that after, you know, a few days of deliberations, the court did come back with a decision on Saturday evening, which is very rare, and they granted our motion to expedite the case. This was over the objection of the Crown, of the government lawyers. The government lawyers took the position that this was not an urgent case, and there was no need to expedite but the

the Chief Justice of the Federal Court was the judge who issued the reasons and he said that no this was an urgent case and that it ought to be resolved quickly. So that means Ben that we will be in court on February 13 and 14 so next month and we will be making our arguments to the court at that point. So hopefully, we will get a decision from the court before March 24, which means that it's possible that there could be some actual results from this case. So March 24, and because you've already received a ruling that this needs to be expedited, does that mean that the Crown can't come and use any delay tactics? Well, here's the

other thing that was very good about the reasons, Ben. The judge, Chief Justice Crampton of the federal court, he actually he set down in the decision a timetable for each of the parties to follow as we move to February 13 and 14. So it's going to be very difficult for the Crown to avoid those deadlines, which means that now we're on a treadmill and we have to get all of our materials filed in court by whatever deadlines and so it'll be difficult for the court to to introduce further delay I think. And I have to assume you are not resting on your laurels? That's correct what we've done is we've plowed ahead and we will be submitting all of our materials as you know obviously according to the deadline we are currently now of course huddling up and coming up with our best

arguments as to why we believe again Ben the two main issues in this case. Number one, what is the scope of the Prime Minister's power to call a prorogation? And number two, depending on what that is ultimately, did Prime Minister Trudeau, in this case, fall short of the mark? Now, what happens to your case? The liberals are choosing a new leader by March 9th. And if they have a new leader who ends up in the House of Commons and becomes our prime

minister, would that new prime minister and this government, would they be beholden to a decision from the court? Oh, yeah. I think the court's decision will be binding no matter what happens with the leadership race for sure. It's not entirely clear to me, Ben, maybe not clear to anybody, what will happen coming out of the liberal leadership race.

I don't know if the new incoming prime minister would be appointed on the 9th, or would that take time, or would this current prime minister decide that he should stay prime minister until the 24th. I'm not entirely sure what might happen when the Governor General might call the winner to Rideau Hall to make the appointment. I don't know. And so it's possible, of course, Ben, that we don't have a new prime minister until the 24th of March and it's still Prime Minister Trudeau.

I mean, who knows at this point? Well, James Manson, you still have a big mountain to climb, so we're going to let you get back to it, but we hope that you give us a call with whatever new update there is. Thanks, Ben, will do. Thank you so much. Home Network is here. I love it.

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