The Ben Mulroney Show - Should we be sending addicts to treatment against their will?

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Alberta plans to impose mandatory addictions treatment with Guest: Yonah Budd, Corus addictions and counselling expert YonahBudd.com -One Minute More with Guest: Robert Rotenberg, Author of One Minute More If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Want to own part of the company that makes your favorite burger? Now you can. With partial shares from TD Direct Investing, you can own less than one full share, so expensive stocks are within reach. Learn more at td.com slash partial shares. TD ready for you. Listen, if you can't keep track of what Donald Trump is talking about and the timelines that he's laying out in terms of when he's going to lay out tariffs on Canada and what those tariffs are going to be on and how much they're going to be. You can be forgiven. None of us can make sense of this.

I don't know that he keeps track of it. Sometimes we think he's talking about the 25% tariffs. Other times we think he's talking about reciprocal tariffs. The reasoning behind none of it makes any sense. I don't know if it's by design. I don't think he does much by design. I was in the car with my brother yesterday and we were trying to make sense of exactly that. Right before this segment started, we were under the impression that Donald Trump yesterday said

that he was going to drop 25% tariffs on April 2nd. We've lost millions of people due to fentanyl. It comes mostly from China, but it comes through Mexico and it comes through Canada. And I have to tell you that, you know, on April 2nd, I was going to do it on April 1st, but I'm a little bit superstitious. I made it April 2nd. The tariffs go on, not all of them, but a lot of them. And I think you're going to see something that's going to be amazing. Okay.

And so now, and you'll forgive me if I'm, I'm learning about this in real time because it literally just dropped. Now he's saying that he plans tariffs on Mexico and Canada for Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, while doubling existing 10% tariffs on China. I can't, we can't keep track. We can't keep track. We can't keep track. We just keep reacting to this man who is, I mean, he's an agent of chaos, at least as it relates to what's going on in this country.

And meanwhile, we don't have a functional government. So thank you, Justin Trudeau. Okay, so a very smart man once told me that the Liberal Party of Canada Okay, so a very smart man once told me that the Liberal Party of Canada is the most successful political brand, political party in Western political history, because in other words, they've governed this country for more time than any other party

has governed any other country. And the reason is, is they can be depended on to do and say absolutely anything they need to do and say to get reelected. Even if it means denying or turning around or doing a bout face on the things that got them elected or the things that they believe in. Doesn't matter. That stuff doesn't matter. What matters is we must be in power, which means they pay more close attention to the polls than anybody.

And if the polls tell them that, as my dad would say in French, les jeux sont faits, it's over, you're gonna see a whole bunch of them leaving, like rats leaving a sinking ship because they know their time is done. But every now and then you can count on them to do the exact opposite. So Transport Minister Anita Anand recently said that she was leaving politics to spend

more time with her family. And that's normally an indicator that it's over, right? Like they've read the tea leaves and they're gonna be given it, as they believe a timeout from the people before they're allowed to govern again. And she wasn't the first. She was after a string of dozens of MPs and cabinet ministers who said their own version of that. She was gonna leave. That was it, done. Well, yesterday the transport minister did an about face reverse course. She's gonna leave, that was it, done. Well, yesterday, the transport minister

did an about face reverse course. She's gonna seek reelection. And the internet is not being kind, not being kind. People that you would expect would defend someone like this just can't find a way to defend her. One of my favorite tweets was somebody saying, I've decided to unretire to spend less time with my family.

This is again, this is how I see the world. You will see this decision as something completely different. I see this as base opportunism. Somebody who saw the changing fortunes of the liberal party and decided to get back on the bandwagon. What was once a lost cause, oh now they have a chance to come back to power, okay I'm coming back, I'm coming back, I've changed my mind. It'd be very interesting to see what the people of Minister Anand's riding think about this. She was so apt to leave,

think about this, she was so apt to leave people who may want maybe wanted to vote for her. And she decided to abandon them. And then she came back. I mean, if it's me, I mean, that's like, that's like a girlfriend breaking up with you. And then she finds out you won the lottery. And then she wants back in. I mean, it's not exactly an apt parallel,

but I just made that up. So I'm gonna stick with it. I think it's a pretty good one. We've been following the liberal leadership contest. And I put contest in air quotes, because it's a coronation. And there's been a lot of agreeing upon agreeing upon agreeing, like,

not a lot of actual fighting and debating in these debates. A lot of people saying, very good point. Thank you very much. I help you out, you help me out. We're all in agreement. But Karina Gould, who is distinguishing herself quite aptly, probably one of the reasons is that she wasn't viewed as a serious contender, there were two, but she's slowly rising up the ranks of somebody who should be taken seriously. And I think one of

the reasons people are taking her seriously is she actually said something that can be viewed as a true criticism of Mark Carney. Let's listen. I think if you listen to the debate, you will hear that there were a number of my colleagues who were using some of the same language and some of the same ideas as Pierre Poliev. And quite frankly, Pierre Poliev does not have a positive vision for this country. The ideas he's putting forward are not

going to help Canadians. And Pierre Poliev is not who we should be trying to emulate as liberals or as Canadians. We don't need a timid Trump up here. What we need is someone who's actually gonna stand up and fight for Canada. Yeah, okay. I immediately discount 50% of what you say

when you call him Donald Trump, because he's not. There's no proof to that one. Mark Carney said it, we called him out. I'm gonna call out Karina Gould. There is no proof, zero, zero proof. So you are misrepresenting the truth. I'm discounting what you say to 50%. However, what is true is Mark Carney absolutely

is using a lot of the language of Pierre Poliev. And we heard Melissa Lantzman on this show say, if that's resonating with you, it's because those are Pierre Poliev's ideas. And if you want those conservative ideas, vote conservative. And Jagmeet Singh has been very clear about the liberals as well, to go back to my original point about doing and saying anything they need to say to get elected, knowing full well they don't believe it. So they'll just say, do and say something later.

Once they get elected, Jugmeet Singh has said that about the liberals, that they, they get elected by, by pilfering NDP ideas. And then when they get into power, they do nothing on those fronts, except when they were forced to in a minority situation. So it was true on the left. It's absolutely true on the right. It's happening right now. If you vote for Mark Carney as prime minister, because he is saying things that Pierre Poliev put in the window. You can fully expect he will not act on them because that is the liberal way.

It is, it just is. Ask Jagmeet Singh. Don't take my word for it. Now, as we know, there's been a lot of action on the provincial front, very activist provincial politics as it relates to the threat of Donald Trump. How do we make this country more productive? And how can our provincial leaders be leaders

respectively in their provinces, but contributing to the national conversation? Well, Scott Moe of Saskatchewan said something pretty bold, pretty bold on Twitter where he said, effective immediately, all pipelines, all pipeline permits going east, west or south received in Saskatchewan will be considered pre approved. We encourage all provinces and the federal government to do the same. And he directed that tweet to Justin Trudeau and Donald Trump. That is a bold, bold statement. I'd love to get the details on what that means.

And if Scott Moe or anybody associated with him is listening, I would love to know what that means in terms of environmental concerns, in terms of buy-in from Aboriginal groups, what happens if these have to go through protected lands, all of that stuff is, I'd be very curious to know about, because I like this end result. I wanna know how we got there.

And if it's this easy for Scott Moe to put that out in a tweet, why isn't it that easy for everybody else? It's a very important conversation. This could be a huge story that we will be following. Let's turn our attention to Alberta. And for the past few months, Alberta has been pushing back and challenging, I guess, the status quo that has been in place in British Columbia and generally in Ottawa about the issue of safe supply. How do we deal with addiction in this country?

And Alberta is planning to impose mandatory addictions treatment. Let's hear from the Health Minister on why this is the way they're going. We need to make sure that yes, those people who need treatment and looking for treatment have access to it. But also not only is there a question of personal and human dignity to somebody who's overdosing hundreds of times a year, there's a public safety question. You and I and our community members have the right to not inhale secondhand crystal meth smoke,

and if somebody is having a schizophrenic break because of the fentanyl they're consuming along with their methamphetamine, and they're fencing with the used syringe out front of the local recreation center that's not appropriate. We should have safe spaces for our families to be able to go to the rec center or go shopping and play sports and so this this small but recalcitrant group of people that are not seeking out voluntary treatment they're often not only the greatest danger to themselves but the community. Now this position by the Alberta government

is to certain people very controversial. They feel that it flies in the face of, like I said, the conventional wisdom of today. I'm just a regular person. I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a member of a community. This emotionally to me sounds like it makes sense, but rather than go down a rabbit hole of emotion that doesn't serve anybody,

let's go to somebody who's been on the front lines of mental health and addiction for years. And so let's welcome Yonah Budd, chorus addictions and counseling expert at yonahbudd.com to the show. Yonah, thank you so much for being here. Thanks Ben, nice to be here, Thanks. So at is at first blush, somebody with your expertise, somebody who's been on the front lines, when you hear this, when you hear about this policy,

what do you think? Well, you know, it's a good question and a good point to talk about. So first of all, in in several provinces, like Ontario and BC, there is something called a mandatory mental health hold, which is up to 72 hours. You can get a police officer, a judge, a medical practitioner with a medical degree, doctor, psychiatrist, conforms, that's called forming. You can form someone to, against their will, to attend mental health treatment, if you will, for what it's worth, for 72 hours, drug-related, not drug-related, it's irrelevant. So there really isn't anything in place right now where they say, if you've got a drug issue, we can force you into treatment, because we all know that that doesn't fly straight in

terms of what really needs to happen. What this program is, and I know Marshall Smith is one of the architects of this program and we had long chats about it, this program is designed to use the healthcare system as opposed to the criminal system where Ontario and BC use the criminal system to put people on diversion programs for mental health or addiction. But in Alberta, anyone with a, with a health card can be picked up, taken into, into a sober facility where they detox and then into some form of addiction treatment, mental health treatment, they're building, you know, hundreds and hundreds of beds and facilities and so on.

It all sounds great. So in the old days, they had something called a drunk tank, right? So your dad and I would remember that, right? Rest in peace, a drunk tank back in our day. So the drunk tank was you take somebody off the street because they were drunk and disorderly. You threw them in a holding cell for a couple, either overnight or a couple of days, they would dry out

and then they could attend court for charges. That's been going on for years. And whether it still goes on or not, we don't really know so the dry out portion of it the detox portion against your will Maybe has some legs right because you're taking some of these out of their mind. They're not in a sober state of mind They're either way too high way too drunk or in a bad state of mental health In a bad mental health run So you take the you know take them out of danger's way for a couple two, three days, so they can at least catch their breath. Yeah. And then and then inform them of opportunities for treatment. Anyone that I've been like I've treated, you know, close to 4800

patients in almost 50 years. And I got to tell you, bro, it only works when someone has some level of motivation to actually get well. Okay, you know, I want to stop you there, because this is where I thought I thought the conversation was going to go here and I'm glad it did. So a couple of things. One, let's take what everybody should view as the universal positive that the Alberta model is not diverting people to the criminal justice system. It's overburdened to begin with and it's the inappropriate area to put people with mental health and addiction issues.

So I'm glad to hear that. But I guess the sticking point for a lot of people, Yona, would be the idea of the notion, the keywords, against their will. And again, I'm just a lay person, but what I understand about opioid addiction is that it literally rewires the synapses of the brain and it makes it so essentially the brain has been hijacked.

The will of that person has been hijacked. Their goal as an opioid addicted person is to get more opioids. So the value of the notion of against someone's will, I think it loses importance because what will are we talking about? We're talking about the will of the drug over the person, which means they don't have the requisite responsibility to consent to something like that. So it's sort of like damned if you do damned if you don't. Am I wrong?

Well, you're half right. Okay. Because I'll take it. Because while you're in the midst of the high, if you will, while you're in the midst of the drug consumption in your body, you're clearly not in a frame of mind to make proper decisions, healthy decisions. I've treated the you know probably a thousand opioid addicts in my career and you know no one starts off wanting to give it up right? So it takes it takes time to get to that level but but once a

person is detoxed from you know opioids couple, two, three days, 48 hours, as much as they're in withdrawal, they are of some much better level of presence of mind. So once they're past the detox or sobriety period where you get them flushed out of the drugs or alcohol flushed out of their system, then you're now dealing with someone who's much more rational. So that's the level that has me interested. Yeah. First, first two, three, four days maximum. Well, I'm Riona.

Also, if I, if I can add it to me, this feels like a new definition of harm reduction, right? Like taking them off the streets, giving them a fighting, clearing their brains. Even if it's temporarily where they get, they them a fighting, clearing their brains, even if it's temporarily, where they're giving themselves, you know, however small a chance, a fighting chance to rationally look at their situation and say, okay, should I go get help?

Now I appreciate not all of them have hit rock bottom, not all of them have that will, but some of them will. And some of them will see that in that moment of clarity where they've detoxed. And so to me, this is a version of harm reduction that certain people could get behind. Well, yeah, and the way they're talking about it is if a person is, quote unquote,

a danger to themselves or others. Well, that's the definition of forming somebody now in the mental health space. If anybody's at a risk of hurting themselves or others, suicidal or homicidal, they can be, they can be formed for a period of time to be assessed for up to 72 hours against their will, usually while, you know, being arrested at some level. And, and that's the time that the, the, you know, that we have an opportunity to look into what's going on, get the drugs out of their system, maybe do an assessment on, on their mental health and so on.

The problem with forcing someone to treatment beyond that, traumatizing, stigmatizing, it feels like you're a criminal. It's all the wrong stuff from a therapist perspective that you want to engage with someone when you want to get them into health. The Alberta program, from what I've read and what I understand, is intended to be much less traumatic, much less stigmatizing and much easier because again, you're not in the criminal system to access that help. You know, we're going to have to leave it there, but I want to thank you.

And look, this is the good news is like there are data points that experts like you will be looking to, to see if this, if this system is a success. So as it grows, we'll have you back and you'll let us know how the Alberta model is going. And if it's going in the right direction, maybe it'll become a best practice that others can look at. Thank you so much. This is Carrie the fire. I'm your host. Carrie the fire, a podcast by the princess Margaret cancer foundation featuring inspiring

personal stories about what happens when world-leading doctors, nurses, researchers, and their patients come together to ignite breakthroughs. Carry the Fire launches Monday January 27th wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Ben Moroney Show and want to remind you that our Dilemma Panel wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and want to remind you that our Dilemma panel is one of our most fun segments of the week. It's a change up. It's a palate cleanser from the important serious stuff that we do. It's also a way for us to connect with our audience. And in order to do that, it's a two way street. You send us an email telling us what your dilemma is at askben.chorus.ent ent.com and then we read it out and we help you out live on the radio. So that's our plan. Time now

for another segment that we enjoy doing, another palate cleanser called Ben Goes Digging for Internet Audio Gold. And we scour the internet for stuff that you gotta know, you gotta hear, sometimes it makes you shake your head. Sometimes it makes you repeat it to your friends. And let's start with Donald Trump's plan to offer a kind of a green card plus that he's calling a gold card. It's a very Donald Trump of him.

See that? Trump was right about everything. Just came in. Somebody said I said, this was sent in by a fan. I said, I think we should make some of them. But we were pretty much you want one? Oh, you'll have to take. He'll consider it. I know him well. Sort of a stiff. Oh, yeah. Brian, you know, you can stop that. That's I screwed the pooch on that. That's my fault. Wrong, I looked at the wrong one.

That's Donald Trump promoting his, the new hats. I mean, where's the Make America Great hat all the time. This one says Trump was right about everything. Very on brand for him. Very on brand. And allows him to refer to himself in the third person. Oh you like the hat that says Trump is right about everything? He doesn't say I was right about everything. He says Trump was right about everything. So very on brand for him.

But now we'll go to the piece on the gold card, the green card plus, also known as the gold card. Also with the five million you know that's a path to citizenship. So that's going to be it's sort of a green card plus and that's a path to citizenship. So that's going to be sort of a green card plus, and it's a path to citizenship. We're going to call it the gold card. And I think it's going to be very treasured. I think it's going to do very well. And we're going to start selling, hopefully, in

about two weeks. Now, just so you understand, if we sell a million, right, a million, that's $5 trillion. Five trillion. Howard was using a different number, but that's $5 trillion. If we sell 10 million, which is possible, 10 million highly productive people coming in, or people that we're going to make productive.

They'll be young, but they're talented, like a talented athlete. That's $50 trillion. That means our debt is totally paid off. And we have $15 trillion above that. Okay, listen, it's a it's a bold idea. The people on the left, unsurprisingly, their heads are exploding. Look, you're essentially saying you're going to bring in a certain number of hyper successful people. They are gonna pay a premium to be able to work

in the United States with a guaranteed pathway, so long as they play by the rules to citizenship. And that $5 million, now there's no way all 5 million goes directly to the debt. I'm sure there's overhead, there's a cost associated with it. So it's not as simple as that, but the numbers are still significant.

And each one of those people has to guarantee to create at least five jobs. So you're getting a massive amount of money for hyper successful people who want to work in the States and pay taxes in the States and create jobs in the States. And by the way, there is already a visa program that is very similar to this. So they're not reinventing the wheel. This is not an awful idea at first blush. And if the end result is the Americans taking care of their national debt that is out of control,

hard to argue that it's not something worth exploring. Really hard to argue. All right. New York City Mayor Eric Adams has he's had a bumpy ride of late. He was accused of federal corruption. There were charges levied against him. And then at one point those charges were pulled back by the Department of Justice. And ever since Donald Trump was elected, Eric Adams has said more and more increasingly what sound like unhinged things.

So right now he's currently there's no there are no charges against him. But there is a push to have them come back because a lot of people people don't like him. And keep in mind he's African American. It's Black History Month. And he has a number of people at Gracie Mansion, which is the home of the mayor. Here's what he said to the people assembled for Black History Month. All these Negroes were asking me to step down. God forgive them. All right. Okay. Okay. We're going to.

Are you stupid? Oh. I'm running my race right now. Okay, we're gonna are you are you stupid? Oh? I'm running my race right now Um I want to run that back. I want to play that one more time. Let's do that. This is a biblical moment You know when Jesus was on the cross. He said God forgive them for they know not what they do All these Negroes were asking me to step down God forgive them for they know not what they do. All these Negroes who are asking me to step down, God forgive them. Are you, are you stupid? I'm running my race right now.

Okay. So he then went on to run down a list of his administration's accomplishments, claiming a record amount of new and affordable housing was being built, as well as an increase in job creation, tens of thousands of guns off the city streets. And then he says, what we have done, you have to be stupid to try to stop me from running this race. It's a level of buffoonery that's going on that's spreading as fast as COVID. Okay, I don't know what's going on with this guy. He compared himself to Jesus. He attacked his fellow African Americans who take issue with him.

He called them stupid. He referred to a level of buffoonery. Donald Trump doesn't even speak with this level of bombast. This is next level, over the top politicking. I don't know what his end game is. I have no idea what his end game is, but I am here for the show. I am absolutely here for the show. We are living in a very dangerous time. And a lot of people don't like Donald Trump's kids.

And a lot of people don't like what Donald Trump's kids And a lot of people don't like Donald Trump with Donald Trump's kids say at the top of the list, Donald Trump Jr. Here is what Donald Trump Jr. said about America and Russia and Ukraine. Can't imagine anyone in their right mind picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option. I mean, just think about it, massive nuclear power loaded with natural resources everyone needs, literally the biggest country on the planet. And ha ha, there's Ukraine, which has Chernobyl and some radiation-proof dogs. Meanwhile, the Biden administration is like,

oh yeah, this is definitely the ally we need. Let's dump all our money into them. Honestly, if anything, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia. Okay, that is chilling and frightening. It should honestly, it should worry us to our bones. But not because Donald Trump Jr. said it, because Donald Trump Jr. did not say it.

That is an AI of Donald Trump Jr. saying whatever the guy, the script said. Somebody put that in a computer and had Donald Trump Jr. saying whatever the script said. Somebody put that in a computer and had Donald Trump say something inflammatory. Now Donald Trump said, Donald Trump Jr., Donnie says plenty of inflammatory things, but he did not say this. And there's a line that is very chilling to me,

AI will never be as bad as it is today. In other words, it's only gonna get better. And if as many people were as fooled by this AI today, and a lot of people were fooled by it, imagine how bad things are gonna get a year from now, two years from now, three years from now. When we are seeking truth, it's gonna be harder and harder and harder for us to find that truth. And look, like I said, this guy is,

we are more apt to believe crazy things from people who typically say crazy things. And there are a lot of people in Donald Trump's administration who say things that stray from the norms, which means the possibilities, the options for people who want to co-opt AI and put things in the mouth of Pete Hexeth,

Tulsi Gabbard, you name it, Donald Trump himself. This is going to get us into trouble in short order. So I urge everybody who's listening, double, triple check your sources before you retweet this stuff because it could get us into a lot of trouble. Very excited about this next segment. Let me give you a little context about the Mulroonies and pop culture. When I was a kid, I bought Marvel comics, loved my comic books. I had a great comic book collection. Have no idea where most of it is anymore, but I loved my comics. And one day I found out that in the Marvel series Alpha Flight, which is like

a Canadian version of like X-Men or Avengers. The story, according to Marvel, was that Pierre Trudeau canceled funding for Alpha Flight. But then when a young upstart, optimistic prime minister was elected named Brian Mulrooney, he reinstituted funding and said the immortal words, bring back Alpha Flight. And there's an image of my dad in the comic,

which I owned, I don't know where it is anymore. In other words, my dad is canon in the Marvel universe. Very excited, point of pride I carry with me everywhere. So to find out that a Toronto author has written a new thriller called One Minute More that is set in 1988 at the G7 summit hosted in Canada chaired by Brian Mulrooney. That's the backdrop and the story is about an assassin on her way to kill world leaders.

I was at that summit. I was in the Intercontinental Hotel. I was part of that history. So to know that there is a piece of fiction using an experience that I had as the backdrop, I had to talk to the author. So let's welcome to the show, the author of One Minute More, Robert Rotenberg. Robert, thank you so much for being here.

Hey, Ben, it's wonderful to be here. And I've thought about your father a lot writing this novel. It was a real, real honor to do so. Well, the day after tomorrow is the one year anniversary of his passing. And I'm gonna read this book on my way to Montreal when I go say hi to him at his grave site

and spend a little time with him. But talk to me about the idea of setting a piece of fiction on the backdrop of something that actually happened. Is that, Is that an are you constricted by that? Or do you as an author find that freeing? Well, it's quite liberating, Ben, this is my eighth novel. I'm a criminal lawyer, and I've been known as Canada's quote, john Grisham. And my first books were what one would call kind of legal thrillers, but I've kind of moved into historical drama. Way back when we were at the July 4th parade at a place called Danhope, Quebec, which is right on the line of Quebec and Vermont,

the Derby line, and it was the July 4th parade, which is this wonderful American Canadian parade. I have this idea. What if a female assassin was on her way to kill the G7 who were meeting in Toronto and the climax of it was that very famous picture of your dad with the world leaders at Hart House, which is this classic building at University of Toronto. Yes, of course. And I actually lived at Hart House when I was at U of T. And I lived at the window across from the patio where they all met. And I thought, wouldn't that be perfect if there was an assassin who

eventually made her way there to try to kill to your old apartment? That's right. That's amazing. But how much research who eventually made her way there to try to kill the... To your old apartment. That's right. That's amazing. But how much research did you have to do into the summit itself? How much of it did you make up for the sake of telling a good story? And how much of it did you root in concrete history? Well, Ben, the backstory here is that I actually wrote this book about 30 years ago before my first novel, Old City Hall, hit and was a big international hit. So back then, I actually went to the Toronto Reference Library and I had to get the old film and look at all the Toronto Star, Globe and Mail articles in 1988.

And you know what was amazing, Ben, is there were all these articles that's like, oh my gosh, free trade, it's gonna ruin Canada. We're gonna become the 51st state. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember those, yeah. We were gonna lose our culture, we were gonna lose our industries. There were gonna be no jobs.

Yeah, I remember all that stuff, all the fear mongering back then. I'll tell you something that I love about a book like this as well. And I see it in movies more and more. There's a trend like this as well, and I see it in movies more and more. There's a trend, I believe, in writers, whether it be a screenplay or a book, is setting things prior to the advent of the internet and smartphones and apps, because it brings it back to a more tactile human time, where you couldn't just check the CCTV and follow somebody down the road and

identify where they were. You couldn't necessarily task the satellites to go find somebody in real time. It's far less reliant on technology, far more reliant on human instinct and cat versus mouse. And I think it makes for better thrillers. Well, Ben, I think you're going to love this book because I love, I just adored writing that. So in the book, at one point, the detective, young detective Green is stuck on a bus for an hour and a half getting to Montreal and he gets off the bus and all the phones are full and he realized he doesn't have any change. He has to go, he has to go buy a chocolate bar so we can get a quarter so we can make a phone call.

That's how things were back then. That's how things were, absolutely. Now I hear that Brian Mulrooney does something very heroic in this story. Please look at page 300. I do not want to spoil it for you, but when you're reading the book I think you will be very proud of your father. spoiler for you, but when you're reading the book, I think you will be very proud of your father. I'm telling you, I'm very excited, very, very excited to read this book. But what are you working on next? Now, I mean, have you, have you,

because this is coming out imminently. Oh, it's out now. It's out now, so congrats. So now that you put a book out into the world, you say you finished it, you've, you've trust yourself and you trust that it's going to find its audience. Is that it for you in the book? Do you move on to a new idea? Oh no, well this is the eighth book. My readers will all know about Ari Green, my main character. They're all contemporary novels before

this. So this is a prequel. Oh wow. So now's going to have many years to do some very exciting things. Plus, he's the head of the Toronto Homicide Squad right now. So he's both going to be doing things in Toronto now and going around the world. You know, Canadian, first of all, it's so important now that we not only buy Canadian goods, but we should be buying Canadian books. And most Canadian mystery writers write mysteries, kind of cozy mysteries. It occurred to me the other day, no Canadians written a real thriller. You know, when you think of Data Jack, I was just going to say that. That's what this feels like to me a little bit.

It's a total thriller. And it's like, why does every thriller have to be in Europe or Spain or exotic locations? Canada's exotic. We need our own assassins. Well the reason that you don't, they're not necessarily put in Toronto at least in contemporary Toronto is because if there were a car chase it would be a very slow car chase everybody would be stuck in traffic. Maybe one of the reasons you said it in 1988. That's true. Yeah, no, but this is, what a fantastic, of course the G7 summit,

where all the world leaders have congregated. And let's remember 1988, it was a different world, security was at a different level. We were not on the heightened alert post 9-11 that we are today. And so you could, you know, an assassin, an assassin's job was probably less of a lift back then

than it would be today. Well, I'm gonna tell people, when you look at the cover, this gorgeous cover, take a close look at the cover, and you'll see that there's a face of a beautiful young woman, woman wearing 1988 sunglasses, kind of hidden in the cover. Robert, this feels like something that could be on that we could be viewing on a screen either big or small is that is that would that be a goal of

yours? Well I'm not supposed to announce it but I will announce it we are just about to sign the TV and film option for the book series. So we're very, very excited about it. Congratulations. Now, may I make a recommendation? If you do, invest in making Toronto look like Toronto in 1988, because people forget that it was not the city that we're living in today. And it would be, if you had some, like the technology to wipe away buildings and get the right cars and get, oh, that would be wonderful. Yeah. And you know, all my books have been set in Toronto and people said to me I mean I've been I've wanted to brag but I've been very successful sold a lot of countries and people always said well why don't you set your books in New York or Los Angeles and I've always

said no no this this is a great place to write about and let's be not just be proud of Toronto and Canada but let's tell our stories. So and that's I think what people love about the book not only in Canada but really from all around the world which is terrific. Well Robert Rotenberg the author of One Minute More in stores now online now I urge people to buy it if only because you know Brian Mulroney deserves to be the hero of the story. I want to thank you. And then quickly, I want to give my very best to your mother and I want to tell you, doing this research, I just saw what a wonderful, elegant, and much loved woman she was, mother, and I just really want to send my regards to her. Robert, thank you so much. Congratulations on One Minute More. All the best to you.

Thank you, sir. Bye-bye. That's why you can now get Global National every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day, so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global National podcast. You can find it on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.