The Ben Mulroney Show - Should we put addicts into mandatory drug treatment?

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Should we put addicts into mandatory drug treatment? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Great to have you here on this Monday. I'm Alex Pearson. And for Mr. Ben Mulrooney, he'll be back with you on Tuesday. Lots going on. We're into the final week of this election campaign, five-week campaign. And should it be longer? Absolutely. Lots to talk about that's not getting talked about. Polyev is going to be in Toronto GTA today and tomorrow. Why does that matter? Well, because the 905 area is one of the crucial, crucial areas that either party must win. And so if that's an area that Poliev is spending a lot of time in, then they think that they can keep some of the seats there. So that's where he'll be spending his time.

You got Carney in PEI. They want to shore up Atlantic Canada, see what colors come in first on election night. Will it be all red? Will it be broken up by the blue? Some of the things that Poliev is proposing, and certainly there are differences in this campaign. You've got Carney from what he took of Poliev's to run on. And then you've got certainly the areas, and certainly if you watch the debates, the area of crime and justice was by far Poliev's best section because he has a lot of big plans

to deal with it. And one of the things that he is dealing with and proposing to deal with are all the drug addictions and addiction in general. But he says that he will let judges order drug treatment for addiction. I'm gonna open the phone lines on this. 416-870-6400 or 888-225-TALK.

Is it time that we allow the courts to decide for those who can't decide for themselves, you know, to get straight, to get sober, to get the drugs out of their system? Because that's what the goal is. And this would be that, you know, judges would have the option that either your mandatory drug treatment, like you got a choice, you go to jail or you're going into treatment, right? And it wouldn't apply to every offender. It's only if your crimes are connected to possessing small quantities of drugs,

but you don't have other violent infractions. And other parts of the plan requiring rehabilitation programs in prisons for more serious offenders. And also of course he's on the on the plan to you know shut down safe supply sites and he'll amend the criminal code to employ life sentences on those caught trafficking or you know producing more than 40 milligrams of fentanyl. And as he says, it's not about punishment, it's about redemption. And if someone is too sick to choose help, and not leaving them without hope.

And so, you know, is taking control of someone else's life to give them control back wrong? Again, it's a very contested issue and people get very emotional about this. And the activists on this side would say, no, can't do that. That goes against someone's charter rights. But if we can't get someone sober, and if someone is in the grips of drugs, what's more cruel, keeping them locked in that life or actually getting them help so that they can see the light and say gee I never would have been able to survive if someone hadn't taken that control of me four one six eight seven zero sixty

four hundred triple eight two two five talk let's get to the phones lots of you calling in oops I hope I didn't muck that one up Gordy can you just flip that back off those little headphone II thingiesies? There we go. Let me try to get, I'll let him fix that line. Let me go to a, is it Shopal? Hi there. Hi, how are you, Alex? I am good, thanks. Good morning. So, I actually work in criminal justice system. I work with clients who have, are struggling with addiction and they end up in the criminal justice system. I have attended several drug treatment courts and I really found them very effective. The judges are very compassionate and really encourage and applaud people who make some

changes and it really works. This particular program does work. The only thing is that instead of opening the more safe site injection site, we should convert them into treatment sites. Well, yeah, and I think people would welcome that. But when we get these sites in someone's community, as you well know, they aren't that. They become just rife with crime and a lot of other bad stuff. Exactly. I 100% support it. It's the only route to go to. Make it as mandatory for them to go for the treatment as part of their probation. Otherwise, you go into the jail and if they go to jail,

there they will be pushed to take drug treatment again. Yeah, so you're for it. All right, so you're for it. Look, I think more people are for this than they are against, but they just don't speak out because up until just a little while ago, this was a third rail topic and I'm not sure how we let it get to that. I don't see someone in their depths of drug addiction

as being, I don't see that as compassionate. So I would rather be the know, be the mean person but take them in and get them treatment, get them clean. Let's go to Troy. Troy, you say what? Good morning. How are you? I'm good. Thanks. Good. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's a very contentious issue. They these people need help. They're not always having the family to get them the help. The system obviously is not doing a very good job. But I also want to look on the other side too.

How many other people, innocent people, are affected by this? I mean, crime goes up because to feed this addiction and people are hurt because of it. Right. Right. So I mean, at least one point is we can get at least people on drugs, try to get them off of it. Yeah, and that will hopefully bring down all the organized crime and the street corner people that are doing their thing and stop regular society being affected by it. Yeah, I mean, look, we have to get serious about the organized crime. We're decades behind in dealing with it. And you know, the bottom line is all of this feeds into a more violent and crime-ridden

society. You know, in fantasy, okay, yes, you can give someone drugs and I guess keep them alive and hope that they go on, but they don't. It's just not a life. So I think more people will be for this than against it. Let's go to Mike. Hi, Mike. Good morning.

You say what on this? Well, I think it's kind of funny. Like the claim is that this is done from the people who oppose it, that it goes against their civil rights. Well, if you follow that same train of thought, how come they're not upset about sending them to jail? Isn't that infringement of the civil rights? I mean, you have a choice, jail or rehab, which could probably change your life. And how anybody could say that that's against

your civil rights. That kind of boggles my mind. We live in Canada. We fight everything. Well, not we. Some people do, but this is what they do in Spain. Right? You got a choice. Spain does not have this this middle safe supply, harm supply. They don't do that. You go to jail, you get treatment. Right? But you can't have that gray area. Those who are addicted to drugs are not rational They're desperate and they make desperate decisions often the wrong ones and I think you know And it impacts everybody in the family So yeah, and and oftentimes the families and they'll tell us they tell us they speak out. They couldn't get help

They needed someone to help. So if you can get someone in the judges, they take that decision Then the families would have an easier time. Let me get to Daniel. Hey, Daniel. Hi, good morning. So, you know, I'm a practical person and I look at the tangibles. Our incarceration facilities are literally very full.

We don't have any. And our probation officers are over-capacitated. So if we're gonna start mandating people to take treatment, we're going to have to hire more probation officers and if they don't comply, then they forfeit their conditions, their freedom, they go to jail, and we're going to have to expand and create more incarceration

facilities. So you know, all these crimes that Poliev wants to charge and throw people in jail and all these conditions, we're looking at billions and billions and billions of dollars to expand these crimes that Poliev wants to charge and throw people in jail and all these conditions we're looking at billions and billions and billions of dollars to expand our incarceration facilities. Well here's the thing though we used to have these big big places like Chateau and Penitentiary we had all these places for

mentally ill and and people who needed help and we got rid of all that stuff wasn't nice well Well, that's what we need. We need people to get the help. I'd rather spend the money there. Hey, Laura. Hey, how are you? I'm okay. You say what on this? Oh, I definitely think that something needs to be done even at a younger age. You know, there's mental health issues that, sorry, get emotional about it. That's okay. Yeah, so, you know, it's very personal. My daughter's 27 now, and if I could have helped her

when she was 15, but the law said that she, it was her own person and I couldn't step in. And so if someone, if a judge had stepped in? I begged a judge to step in. And where's your daughter now? Probably on the street somewhere. That's pretty heartbreaking for a mom to hear, right? That your child, that you can't protect your child and you're somewhere out there. But when she was 15 and she was stealing and you know, she was obviously living at home and

you know, you do the parent thing, you take her phone away, you're paying for her phone and then the police end up at your house and say that you're taking her property. your house and say that you're taking her property. No, that's not, you know, like, it's, it's, it has to go back farther as well. So I think society's gone too far the other way. Boy, oh boy. Laura, I'm so sorry, I'm out of time, but I think the words you say are so, so crucial because behind every addict there's a family desperate to save them. And I just hope one day that we can help, you know, get that help for your daughter. Okay.

Thank you very much for sharing. Boy, oh boy. Those are the stories that that's the realities is Laura and other parents out there and they do want help desperately. And I wish I could give more time to her so that maybe people could understand. Right? We're going to talk about this more later in the show. I promise you that.

But I thank you for calling. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news you need. That's why you can now get global national every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day. So take this as your personal invitation to join us

on the global national podcast. You can find it on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Alex Pearson in for Mr. Ben Mulry. He'll be back with you on Tuesday. Ever since I saw Katy Perry go up to space, I just can't, I can't, not that I could look at her before, I just honestly can't take her seriously in any fashion, but I digress. Let's talk about what they're doing in BC and the question becomes should we be doing this here? I'll open the phone lines on this so you can give us a call at 416-870-6400 or

888-225-TALK. It has everything to do with what BC is doing to streamline their driving license process. And what they're going to do is get rid of that need for a second road test. Now, once upon a time when I was getting my driver's permit back in the good old days, you didn't have a second. There was no second road test, right? You had your written test, which they told me I failed and I didn't. I found out when I went back to rewrite it

eight months later that I had passed. But that's me when I was 16 and I've gotten over the trauma of that. But yeah, you'd get your beginners and then you would take your driver's courses and do all that stuff. And then you would have a driver's test and you'd either pass or fail. Not now, right? So when you go now to get your license in BC anyway, you have to get there are three assessments to get the license in BC anyway, you have to get, there are three assessments to get the Class 5 license.

So you get the multiple choice test that we do, you get the road test, and then a final class road test, but you have to wait for that for 24 months, right? Up to 18 to 24 months, which is a really long time to take that second test. But under the new rules, if you're under 25 months or 25 years, then you have to wait 18 to 24 months. But if you're 25 years and up, then you wait a year. And

if you don't do anything wrong, then you get your license. But they've gotten rid of that second road test, right? They say, you know, as long as they've got the road experience, you're good. And I'm thinking, okay, why do we need this? And when you get licensed in Ontario, why would you need these second tests? If you've got the written part done, okay, you're in, and you're driving around, then you take your driver's test with someone.

If you haven't done anything between getting your test written and your driver's test done, why would you need to do a second driver's test? I don't understand how that makes a better driver. Now maybe I'm wrong, but again, when they started to look into this, it just seems like A, it makes for a lot more work for the government to do, but a lot more, it's just a redundancy. So right now in Ontario, we have a G1 test, which we write, and then you do the road test,

which gives you your G2, and then finally the G test. So again, you're repeating systems. We didn't do this once upon a time. It was not always like this. So is it time that we go back to eliminating one of them so that you just go back to having the written test and the road test, 416-870-6400 or 888-225-TALK? I mean, maybe, I don't know what the second road test

is going to really accomplish other than you drive really well for that one day. Right? I mean, I don't have an issue when we retest people like every 10 years. I don't have an issue with that because you can develop some really, really bad driving habits. Right? I think we all do.

But I don't really see how we, you know, unless someone's got a really terrible driving record. I mean, yeah, maybe you put in the protocol where if someone's got some kind of violation, like you get a ticket, okay, then they go through to a second test. But what does doing two road tests, how does that make things better other than I think gumming up government, slowing things down and becoming more of a cash grab? That's what I'd like to know. Because what I think would make more sense is making it more important that you do more

driving in class, right? Like we all signed up for young drivers of whatever we did, that kind of stuff, right? 416-870-6400, 888-225-TALK. Do we need that second road test? Is this just an extra cash grab or can we get rid of it? Let me talk to Greg. All right, Greg, you're going to set me straight. You say what on this? Do you want them to stay? Well, the first test is your basic city roads, then the second test is for the highway. So you wanna separate the two. Well, we did them all together.

How old are you? We're the same age. Okay, well yeah, I did my test in Hamilton, but they either took you on the highway or they took you around the roads. You didn't know what you were gonna do on your test. You're ready for everything. No, I did mine in Toronto,

and it was city first test, and then highway the second test. You're ready for everything. I did mine in Toronto and it was city first test and then highway the second test. I think that's good. So you want it to stay? Yeah, you don't want someone's first day on a road to be at highway speed. Well no, but again, once you've taken your written test, once upon a time, you're going out with an adult, you're going out with a fully licensed driver and you're getting that experience and you're going on the highways and then you're getting better at your driving, you're taking your classes and your lessons and then you take your road test. But to think then you'd have to drive for another 18 to 24 months and then take a test, it just seems like a really long process.

And I get it, we want the best drivers out there. And frankly, we do not have the best drivers. Mike, you say what? I just was saying, thanks for taking my call, first of all. Thanks for making it. And I love your show. Thank you. I just wanted to say that I believe truly that where your address is,

is where you should be doing your road test. There's far too many people that are cheating the system and going up to like Kirkland Lake and then living in Mississauga. And that's not a representation of where you drive. And I feel that that's a big change that should happen. And I feel that just that just doesn't prepare people properly for the roads that they're driving on.

Yeah, okay. There you go. And I to your point, thanks a lot. There are a lot of people, you know, it's a well known thing. If you live in Toronto, you go to Hamilton or you go to somewhere quieter to take your road test, because it's easier, there's not as much traffic.

I was born in Hamilton, so I took my test there, because that's where I lived. But that is a thing. When I got my truck driver's license, well, that whole system's a mess, right? Like they do need to do road tests because there are some people that just should not be driving trucks out there.

But again, this thing's coming into play. It's the first major update that they've done. And so we'll see what happens. But once this is done, does it come to Ontario or not? Once one province does it, we tend to see more of this. I'm gonna change topics. And on the other side of this, we come into a topic which again, I don't like the way this is going,

but it'll probably have a lot of buy-in depending on what age category you're in. Great to have you here, I am Alex Beerson. In for Mr. Ben Mulrooney and the question, I can answer this right away, right? You know that I can answer this right away, right? You know that I can answer this right away, but not everyone will have my answer. Should you know how much your coworkers earn?

And I see these kinds of studies and I go, yeah, this is what I call a solution in search of a whole lot of problems. But I'll open the phone lines on this. Should you be seeing your colleagues, you know, pay stub, would that help you? Would it help or hinder? And do you share that kind of information? Do you know?

Would you want to know? I always ask the question, what could go wrong? And it's like everything. But this new study now published in the Journal of Business Ethics says that compensation transparency – I love that – compensation transparency, otherwise knowing what your colleague makes influences the culture within an organization. Well, yeah, no kidding. What they find is that when employees learn how their pay compares to that of their peers,

then they can either feel very entitled and then they deserve more. So then they ask for a raise. Or, bottom line is those with top performance rankings feel entitled to getting the higher compensation than those who are ranked lower. Bottom line, when people are at the bottom of the ranking, they felt demoralized.

I'm like, wow, you had to do a study to find out that. Less likely to ask for a raise or believe they didn't deserve one, which could lead to some incentive to perform. Study also raising some ethical concerns about performance measurement systems and how they might impact employee motivation, collaboration, perceptions of fairness.

So the bottom line is, and what I read through the study, we've realized the obvious. Transparency aims to promote fairness and reduce inequities, but oh yeah, it also creates unexpected consequences because then people get jealous. It impedes teamwork. It creates unexpected consequences because then people get jealous. It impedes teamwork. It starts a cancer of jealousy and all these things. So look, I come from a generation where you don't talk about money. It's tacky.

I would never dream of asking my colleague how much they make. I don't care who they are. It's none of my business. I don't talk about money. but there are many who say, I deserve to know. And there are workplaces, maybe you at one, that would say, we feel that people should know what everyone's making and that way we're transparent. And so I think, okay, but how long can that last? And at what point are you not pitting people against each other? Because not everyone does the same job. I very much believe in merit-based, you know, earnings.

But maybe you don't. 416870 6400888 225 Talk. But are you helping make a better workplace? And are you helping those around you by sharing what you make? I'd love to know if you've got this at your workplace, because I'd love to know if it worked or I'd love to know what happened if it didn't. 416-870-6400-888-225, talk again, we're talking.

Is it the business of the person working next to you of what you bring home? And I don't say it's none of their business because I think I'm more important than the next person, but it does come down to the fact that I don't think it would bring a positive. I just think it would cause a lot of resentment. Even if older employees who have been there a lot longer, you know, should you expect when you come into a company that you're making more than those people? And then to those people who've been there longer at company, should they then feel guilty

because they're making more than people who have just arrived? So I just, I don't see anything good coming of it because I just think you're, you end up pitting one another against each other. And so again, I look at these, these, these initiatives, equity, everything has to be equitable. There's no such thing as fairness all around and not everything's going to be equitable. It's impossible.

Someone will end up being excluded. 4168706400 or 8888225 Tong, talk, what am I missing in this? Let's go to Frank. All right, Frank, would you want to know what your colleague's making? When you started talking about that, I got an example for that would have really paid off. Gordie Howe, probably one of the greatest hockey player ever. And the owners, the six original teams, the owners were all crooks, okay. So Gordie Howe was given a leather jacket as a thank you or salary or

whatever by the owner in Detroit. And all of a sudden, little by little, he started finding out what everybody in the league was making and they go, wait a minute, I'm the best player. And these guys are getting paid more than me. So it benefited the owners. Okay. Let's take it out of the hockey world, right? Because the agents and all the rest of it, let's take it into a more common workspace.

So let's just say your workspace. Would you want people knowing what you make and vice versa? Yes, I would like to know so this way we have an idea how much to get paid or whatever because there's some people that are good at the job and there's some people that are not that good at the job. But what if people make less than you think you're not good at the job and you think you're pretty good at the job? Well, then you better prove it to me, okay? That's all I have to say to them.

Show me. If you think you're that good, show me. All right. Okay. Appreciate the call. Thanks very much, Frank. Now, this is one of those things, I guess, depending, I mean, you might talk to younger generations and they might say, yeah, I absolutely want to know what you're making.

Maybe that gives them, I don't know, some kind of feeling that they have control, that maybe they're not wasting their time. I get how demoralizing when you're younger, when you want to be able to afford all these things and you certainly want to be able to say, hey, you know, I'm making about as much as my colleague, we seem to do the same work and you're on a same plane, but not every job is the same. And not every responsibility is the same. Right? And so I just, I kind of look at it and I think, yeah, eventually it might start off as a good idea, but I just think these initiatives tend at some point to turn bad.

I just don't see how you kind of keep it going. Let's go to Raleigh. Hey Raleigh, you say what on this? I say I think it's important that we know the wage range in each job category. Okay, the wage range, but I'm talking about like specifics. You want to know what Alex Pearson makes and I want to know what you know makes? And I want to know what, you know, Raleigh makes. I like categories are different. I'm talking specifics. Yeah. I think, I think it can incentivize me and it can also, um, disincentivize me. So it's really hard.

I think it's important to know, uh, what they're, what, what a person's making and then aspire to be that person. What's my difference? What do I need to get paid the same as Alex? You know? You have to give it your life. But you don't wanna make, you wanna make a lot more than me, I promise you, right?

But it would be like me saying, well, I deserve to know what Joe Oakley makes. None of my business, what he negotiates, and none of his business, what I negotiate, right? That's how I look at it. But I do know that a lot of people see this and say, now, you know what, I wanna know what that guy Joe makes in the corner, because he doesn't do anything,

and he seems to drive a nice car. Hey David, you said what? I think it helps to alleviate a lot of animosity in the workplace. I worked for a company for many years, and we had seasoned employees that were making a low amount of money when they started and new hires were coming in and almost making double

what they were making and it was just totally unfair i mean they're just the way that the company was run was a nightmare and uh... and the reason i'm no longer there i'm always fighting for the little guy and uh... i'd just it just bothered me to know and that uh... but that happened so i i think it did it goes to eliminate that well how much is alex making a how much is david making a how much is bob

making and i see them having coffee five times a day or six times in an hour and it you know like you say they're driving a nicer car. They got the bonus, they got the corner office or whatever. So I just think it, it, it, it, it's a lot better. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Look, this is all personal. Again, I'm not the richest gal on the block, hardly. I just, I look at it, and I think the money is the root of all evil and it can turn best of friends

into the worst of enemies. Right? And so it's one of those things where I think we look for these solutions thinking it might make things better, but ultimately it does end up bringing a lot of toxins, a lot of cancers into workplace. I just don't see it being manageable for the long run. Categories, okay, you can make X amount in this job, or you can make this job X amount in that job, but I think everyone brings a different skill in, and there should be weight on that.

Thank you for your calls, I really appreciate that. Hopefully you're not working today, and you can not worry about what people are making. There's no limit to how far criminals will go to cover their tracks. But investigators will go even further to uncover the truth. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News. This season on Crime Beat, I'll take you from the crime scene to the courtroom and

inside some of Canada's most high-profile cases and some you've likely never heard of before. Search for and listen to Crime Beat on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.