The Ben Mulroney Show - Speed camera fallout and how hard did Western U work to expose anti-semitism?

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

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This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank. Deposit it and wait for it to clear.

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Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the backseat. The whole way? The whole way. Well, happy Friday, everybody. Welcome to the show. It's Friday, September 26th. We made it to the end of the week, and we appreciate you joining us all along the way. If you have been a regular listener of the show, then you know that we've been following what's been going on at the Dufferin Grove homeless encampment.

There were a number of people who had taken over a large swath of land at Dufferin Grove. Many of them left. The true believers stuck around, a grand total of about seven different groupings of people. And you'll remember earlier this week, they put out a list of demands. They are not going anywhere unless the city was agreed to give them 800 square feet each in an apartment or condo or co-op or something like that. But they wanted options, obviously. They didn't want to just pick whatever is handed to them. They wanted to be able to shop around, right?

And while they were waiting, oh, they wanted to be there for minimum five years. I think that was what it was. I think they wanted to own these things, like outright. And so they weren't going to go anywhere until they got that. Then they also put out the appeal to supporters to bring them all sorts of stuff, including sex toys. I don't know if they got those. But anyway, this morning, the city of Toronto began clearing out these, the encampments. And we've got a little bit of audio of what.

happen. Please start packing two bags, okay? I'll be back in 15 minutes, Sam. Please have two bags ready to go. We're being assaulted by the city of Toronto right now. They're attacking us and are in our tents. We need bodies on the ground immediately. Okay. I like to see the video. I like calling things what they are. Okay. And I also don't like being talked to like I'm an idiot. I have eyes and I have ears. And I heard a person coming in and politely asking with pleases and thank yous for people to collect their things. I mean, I've been, I have been spoken to more rudely at a hotel when I missed the checkout time, you know, by like five minutes and security comes up and they speak to me far more rudely than those people were spoken to by

the representative of the city of Toronto. There was no insult and there was no attack. but don't let the truth get in the way of exploiting a situation, right? So we'll keep on top of this as the hour progresses. And if there is any more information germane to the topic, it will come to you via us. Another conversation that is increasingly important to not just people in Toronto, but around the province, is what to do with the speed cameras of it all. A reminder that there are a number of speed cameras in the city of Toronto that are a financial windfall. That's what they represent for the city.

And in a way that defies explanation, there was almost like a ninja-like takedown of over 10% of them at one point. One night, in one night, 16 of the 150 cameras went offline. And there's no, I don't think there have been any arrests. in what is clearly criminal activity, but a lot of people quietly supported this because a lot of people believe that this does nothing, but just ding you for money if you're one or two kilometers over the speed limit.

We don't even know what that threshold is. And so Doug Ford, the premier, came out against this. This is after the mayor of Vaughn Stephen Del Duca came out and said, this is wrong. It's a cash grab, and we're going to stop using them. And that's in recognition, that's, as a backdrop, he was the architect behind bringing speed cameras to Ontario when he was the minister of transport of the province. So he had quite a turnaround. So Doug Ford says he's going to get rid of him.

And now he says that there's a bill that could come into effect in mid to late October that would render these things illegal. and a lot of questions have to arise because of this. What do you do with the contracts? I mean, the city didn't invent these. We bought them. We're releasing them. And we've got a contract with whoever made them. And we owe them.

I think the contract goes until 2029. So is this going to be another one of those Starlink situations where we just have to eat the cost? And if so, how much is that going to cost? And somebody actually put this question to Doug Ford. Well, let's be very, very clear. They have deals worked out with the U.S. and Canadian manufacturers of speed cameras. The deal goes this way, folks. They install it.

They pay for everything. They pay for the technology, the cameras and everything. And they get a slice of the pie. And there's all sorts of different deals. That's one deal. And the other deal is, well, you'll pay us back through the money to get for speed cameras. but do you know what I find ironic the people and the mayors I've asked the money you've collected how much have you put into road safety how much have you put into calming traffic

not one dollar yeah and and that's why this is a really this should be a nuanced debate you know my my initial reaction is I don't like these things but if you then ask me a few more questions. What should we do? Well, given all the context, I do think that the solution has to be, there has to be an element of the solution that I don't like because the whole system's a little messed up. So you got, because not everybody's happy about Doug Ford's position. I like it instinctively and emotionally, but realistically, I think you have to take into account other people's concerns. For example, the mayor of Burlington, Marianne Meade Ward, this is what she had to say. I know him to be a compassionate person.

I know him to be somebody who, when presented with a compelling argument or case, will change course. And I am begging. I'm pleading. Let change course on this. If some municipalities don't want to install these, that's okay. They don't have to. But don't take the right away from those municipalities who are doing this in a thoughtful, responsible way with proven technology that will save lives. where other measures have failed.

Okay, that's absolutely fair. And to be, to be candid, I spent an evening with Marianne Mead Ward when we did the Ontario election coverage together, and I found her to be a very thoughtful person. And I don't think that she said anything untoward here. I think that was absolutely fair. Meanwhile, closer to home in Toronto,

Mayor Chow, she is not going to let this go without a fight. Her stance is that banning cameras sends the wrong messages and makes streets less safe. And so she put forth this Hail Mary where she wants to introduce changes at City Hall to strengthen the program. And this is, I think this was just a,

I think she was just spitballing here. But she said she wants to include a seven-day grace period so drivers don't get multiple tickets from the same camera in a week. And I think, like I said, she must be spitballing here because if she's not, then what she's actually doing

is telegraphing her desire telegraphing that her priority is not keeping the streets safe because how you get a ticket on a Monday and then you're given a grace period by that same camera to speed for the rest of the week. So I like that she's trying to work with the other side

but this I think she tipped her hand here in a negative way and besides the city staff called her out on this but I think the city staff called her out on this just because they don't want to give up the ability to turn those cameras ever. And so we only have a little bit more, a little bit more time here. But look, as I said, I don't like these cameras at all. But if you were to ask me what my solution is here,

it would be like, okay, okay, what's our priority? Our priority is to keep school zones safe, right? And certain areas where you have pedestrian deaths that are markedly higher than elsewhere. Put them there, right? And recognize that those school zones aren't school zones all day long. There are school zones when kids are in school. So if you really care about school zones, turn them on an hour before school and an hour after school, right? And after that, if you really have concerns with traffic in that area or speed in that area, put a cop there where a cop can make a judgment call.

A cop can make a judgment call and decide, you know what? Everyone's going, everyone's going 46. Everyone's going 46 in a 50 zone. Everyone's going 36 and a 40, everyone's going, whatever, six kilometers over. not stopping anyone for that today. I'm not doing that today. Introduce the human element back into it. But in certain times of the day,

make it so that you're protecting the kids and you're protecting pedestrians as best you can. That's where I stand as of right now. Open to have that discussion in just a minute. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much. much for joining us. Now is the time that we open up the phone lines at 4168-8-2-250 talk. We want the battle lines have been drawn. On one side you've got the Doug Ford progressive conservative

government saying that we are done. The era of speed cameras in the province is done. They have been a cash grab and the money that has been collected is not used for road safety, traffic calming infrastructure or anything like that. And on the other side, you've got a number of mayors, some of which are pro Doug Ford's position, and others are saying, look, some of us are being very responsible with these things, and we want to have the option to be able to use them if we want. That also includes our mayor who is suggesting she is willing to compromise. And so what is the solution?

Let's start with Adam. Adam, welcome to the show. What say you? I opened my mail yesterday to a $1,400. ticket. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, a $1,400 ticket from a speed camera? Yes. So what happened was somebody stole the plates off my vehicle, used them as a speed camera, it's a company vehicle, so I don't drive it every day, found this out in the mail. So if this was about safety, should a cough have come and at least talk to me doing 56 over

a 50 limit? Wow. So, oh, sorry, I'm sorry, I may sneeze in the middle. of this, and I apologize. But so your, your plates were stolen. Did you, when did you find out that your plates were stolen? When I received a $1,400 ticket. So, so, so, and you, so you had been driving around what they, someone swapped your plates? No, I have multiple vehicles. You have multiple vehicles.

So you hadn't even looked at this car in a long time. Yeah. Wow. And so what is the, so had you been, had that person been stopped by a, by a cop, this would have been resolved on the spot and that person would probably been, uh, would have been arrested. And also, yeah, because if a cop stops somebody speeding, it was a 50 zone, I'm guessing, and you were 56, and they're doing 106? A hundred and six. So this person would have been arrested on the spot.

They would have done a check on the license plates, and they would have said that is not, those license plates are not registered to that car. So the person would have been arrested 100%. And you would have had nothing to do with this. Instead, the camera picks you up and you're dinged with a $1,400 speed ticket. What is the process by which you get to contest this? Yeah, now I have to go contested. I had to go to the police station, the service, Ontario, and now I have to go to the courthouse. Right.

Okay. So now, I'm not going to pretend that this one example, this is an outlier example, but it's still an egregious lack of accountability. For a ticket, this size, it should at least warrant a phone call or visit from a cop to say your vehicle was seen doing almost double the speed limit. And to what you would have said, that's not my vehicle. yeah yeah no absolutely and it could have been resolved i have a gold vehicle they're two probably different yeah the pictures you look at the ownership oh gold okay well let's listen on the car

well adam listen i hope you give us a call back and let us know how this gets resolved if in fact it does we appreciate it thank you so much no problem thanks yeah it for me there's all there's the lack of accountability of the speed cameras like that's why they send the ticket to your house and you don't you don't lose points because they can't prove that you were the one driving necessarily Oh, yeah, we've got lots of calls. All right, so let's take Aaron. Aaron, welcome to the show. Hey, good morning, Ben.

How are you? I'm well, thank you. How are you? I'm great, thanks. A couple of quick points. I apologize. When they first brought the cameras into Barry, they did the rigour mall where they covered up the lights.

They put up the signs. But the problem was where they first put it in, it was east-west. There were streets that came into that corridor from the north and south. So you would turn into that, not realizing that the speed camera is there because you're missing the signage and then everybody's getting tickets they complained so they changed it they put it up um before school started it was like 830 to 9 10 the second break like 10 30 to 11 they did the lunch the second

break the after school so nobody knew what the hell like what time it is so then they stopped that one yeah and then move them all around so i you know what they do work i hate to see it because i i do want to see them go. But, I mean, I'm picking up a piece on a Friday night coming back through a school zone on 1130. I'm doing 52. And the thing flashes. I never got a ticket. But at the same time, it's like I was saying the screener, if you're going to do it, if there's a bit of, you know, movement here, make it clear cut. Put it all across the school boards, all across the school zones. This is the designated time. You know, let's do 730 to 430. Yeah, that's it. That's what I'm recommending as well. And take the ones that aren't in

school zones and move them to school zones. Like let's, if we really care about, make that the priority. I dare somebody. I do not like speed cameras and I promise you. I will, that is not a hill I'm willing to die on fighting against safety in school zones. Anyway, thank you very much for the call. How do we have next? We got Dan. Dan, thanks so much for calling in.

Hey, Ben. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks. I agree with Ford, but I don't. I agree with you putting them in school zones at certain times. Great. And to compromise with the cities where they have to show accountability of where that money goes. Oh, yeah. That money should go towards traffic calming, you know, ideas.

Yeah. I agree, yeah. Just on a quick note, I know you got a lot of callers, but I think the funny thing is that two callers ago, if someone did get pulled over by a police officer and was put in jail, he'd be taken back out the next day on bail. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, man.

David, happy Friday. Hey, how you doing? As far as a school zone, I actually got one from a school zone. The problem was is I never even know I had the ticket until I got the thing that the mail that says, yeah, you've gone to court, you've been found guilty,

you owe this much money if it's not paid by this date and your life is suspended. I got that letter in the mail four days after the day of the suspension. Well, yeah, well, let's not forget. We have a Canada post-strike right now. Well, this was like last year. But, I mean, the point being that I never even got the original. So when I went in, they go, oh, no, we weren't going to suspend your license.

So it has nothing about, like, actual real consequences. And it was all about the money. And the money for that was basically around about $108. Yeah. Now, most of us make way more than $108 for a day. So you're not going to take a day off work to fight it. Because, well, you could take that to court if you want. No one's going to do that for $108.

when you're going to lose two or three hundred dollars or more for a day's work. Yeah. It's all about money. They priced in that little sweet spot, but there was no consequences. And I didn't even know that I had had this ticket. And when I said, hey, I didn't even get the original ticket. They go, yeah, that happens a lot. All right, David, we've got to leave it there.

Thank you very much for the call. And good luck and happy Friday. Steve, welcome to the show. Morning, Ben. Happy Friday. Happy Friday. I've got another classic example. I'm in Georgetown.

Uh, major artery that comes up in here is Mountain View, and they have a dip that they had to put a, uh, a bridge in to reduce the incline. Um, where they've done, it's about a 45 degree climb on there, cars have to go up to make the hill. I'd like to know what's going to happen in the winter. Yeah. But, uh, they've got it right at the top of the hill where cars, cars have to decelerate almost immediately.

The next street over is my granddaughter's grade school. Okay. Nothing there. So it's not, for them, it's not, it's not an issue of protecting the school. They could have put it one block over, and they would have been protecting a school instead. They're putting in a place where they know the chance of finding somebody speeding is higher. All about the money. Right.

That's why, like, if they really want to keep these things, put them in places where people would have a really tough time arguing against them. And that's in school zones and around hospitals. We don't have a problem with schools. and I would endorse that fully. However, it's not about that. And that other guy that was on with $1,400, well, mine for 78 and a quarter, it fails in comparison, but not worth going to court for. Well, thank you very much. And enjoy your weekend.

We've got time for just a couple more. We'll see if we can speed through him. David, welcome to the show. Hello, am I on the air? Yes, you are. Hi. Okay. Now, I just wanted to say that I agree with the responsibility of.

letting people know what they're doing with some money. Yeah. But I do like cameras because they were recently put on my street. And it's calmed everything down so nicely. Like if there's no more speeding, it's beautiful. I love it. Well, listen, listen, I'm glad that you've got peace from that. I would argue that possibly if they had put some speed bumps in.

I mean, I lived on a street where they put in speed bumps. And that street was a very fast, fast street. It slowed down. And the thing about a speed bump is once you pay for it, it's paid for. You don't have to have a contract with an American company. you don't have to send them anything once it's paid for it's paid for we got to run and i want to thank everybody uh for joining us i wish we could get to chad uh we'll get to you next time but please be safe out there and have a great weekend all right up next why western university

says it's investigation into anti-semitic group chats went nowhere i don't buy it i don't think you will either that's next on the ben milbride show Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And this is a follow-up to something that we covered just a little while ago. There was a lot of hay being made about some terrible behavior occurring in a group chat of what people believe to be students at Western University. And it was some terrible anti-Semitic, potentially violent talk. And word got out to Jewish students. Jews students took issue with this.

They brought a lawyer in. That lawyer went to the Western University, the heads of that school, and they said there's not much we can do. Well, we've got a follow up on that today, and so we're joined now by the lawyer representing these students, Jonathan Rosenthal. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us on the show.

You're very welcome. Good morning. Okay, so what is the latest as you see it? The latest I see it is that the university had no concern and has no concern about investment. this clear anti-Semitism at the university. This isn't about the conflict in the Middle East. This is about pure hatred towards Jews, calling them dogs, saying you want to find a Jew

at the rally, drop a loony, advocating violence against Jews. And the universe has made up every excuse in the book not to properly investigate this. And now that they've been called out, they continue to not be honest and mislead the public about what's occurred. Yeah. And so we were looking into this as well. And my favorite first was they wanted to know the names of these Jewish students that you were representing, which to me, I don't know why they need that in order to investigate bad behavior by other people. But that was their original position.

And then I guess they looked into this. And, you know, we've got bits and pieces of the group chat below. This is from the actual chat. There was a guy whose name in the chat was Adnan Baxter. And we don't know if that's a real name or not, but he said, I wanted to pop some Israelis. You want to refer to them as something. Refer to them as Zionists. If you get caught referring to them as Jews, they'll get you for anti-Semitism and ruin your life.

And this isn't an exaggeration. And he says, I'll actually pop them if I see them in person. And this guy continues. And here's what should concern not just the school, but I think police forces all the way up to the RCMP and CESIS as well. This guy says, Amman, did you get the. the shipment of rifles and shotguns and rocks. I don't know if that's real or it's not,

but the idea of transporting weapons onto a university campus, whether real or not, should be of concern. And the guy's name is there, Adnan Backus, a simple Google search shows you who this guy is. It doesn't take a genius. You do not have to be Sherlock Holmes. And so when the school comes to you and says, we don't have enough information to find these people.

Do you feel like they're being honest with you? They're entirely being dishonest. In fact, they're lying. Because actually in one of the letters they wrote to me, we note the text file contains only screen names from which the Uvernor is unable to identify any current students who made the comments. It's not true.

Your email indicates stuff, the email did not, the actual complaint, the words you read, they were given that. And you can see simply Googling that gentleman's name leads to his actual real name, leads to an actual LinkedIn profile, which confirms he went to the University of Western Ontario. They were not concerned. This chat was provided, and again, I'm actually not the student's lawyers. I am the lawyer for the lawyer of the students' rights, because we took an extra level protection to protect the safety of the student.

And the university insists that we identify the students and put a target on their back when they had no interest in calling up the students saying, hey, is that you? We provided them the name of a tutorial assistant who was the moderator of the chat. Wouldn't that be a good person to reach out to and find out about the chat?

And even more shockingly, a member of the Board of Governors of Western Ontario was a member of this. Now, to be very clear, he did not say anything anti-Semitic. No, but surely he's got some information that would be germane to this investigation. Correct. So if I was the president of the University of Western Ontario and saw that a gentleman by the name of Noah Zabian was on my board and saw a gentleman by the name of Noah Zabian was on the chat, he would be the person to reach out to and say, hey, this is of the chat. Who are these people? Do you know who these people are? They questioned and said, well, how do we know the chat's authentic? Ask him. They had no interest in investigating this matter. And the reason, in my respectful opinion, is very simple, that everyone in this world is so concerned if they call someone out to be an anti-Semite, and this is pure anti-Semitism, they are fearful, oh, that's Islamophobic, or you're anti-Palestinian. And I'm sorry, it's just

not true. This is pure anti-Semitism. If you substitute any group for Jews, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Then it wouldn't take place. No, I agree. I agree with that. And you're absolutely right about so what the reaction would be. But these people have an obligation to students, to every student at their university, everyone who pays tuition has the right to feel safe on campus and the right to feel safe as the fullest expression of who they are. If they are Muslim, and they deserve to feel safe as a Muslim. If you're a Jew, you have the right to say if you're agnostic, if you're atheist, whatever it is, you want to be gay, if you're black.

And not for nothing, we did a study of, we covered a study on this show just a few weeks ago where black students at universities said they felt racism 8% of the time. And I think it was five times that for Jews and anti-Semitism. It's a real problem. So what do you do next? do you do next as this relates to the behavior of the University of Western Ontario? Because it feels like this is dereliction of duty and it feels like they are allowing something to occur that on their watch that they legally should be stopping. I couldn't agree with you more.

And I hate to say that I've been part of the academy for over 20 years. I teach at Osgood Hall Law School. And the last thing I would ever want is for my academic freedom to be interfered with particularly by the government. That's the lasting any academic wants. But I say there's a time when the universities, which are publicly funded, if they cannot create a safe learning environment, I never thought I'd say this. But if they cannot create a safe learning environment,

take all forms of racism, including anti-semitism, seriously, there's a time that the government must take action. I never thought I'd say that. In relation to the University of Western Terror, that time has come. I know the minister of college and universities, Minister Quinn has been made aware of this situation, and the time for him to act is now. They must protect all students and make all learning environment safe. And if the university is not going to do it, the government has to do it. And in what way?

What are you hoping the government is prepared to do? How far are you hoping they are willing to take it? I hope the government is going to say to President Shepard, if you don't properly investigate this, we are not to be able to publicly fund you in the manner that we have. I hope donors who have supported this university say, and this is a university, until they prove to us that they take racism seriously, including anti-Semitism, we're not going to donate to them. Yeah, well, I want to thank you so much for being here, sir, and I hope you have a very good weekend. I hope you'll keep us up to date as this story develops.

Jonathan Rosenthal, lawyer for the lawyer of the students. Thank you very much. You're very welcome, Ben. And look, I'll say this. Ever since the October 7th happened, and we started seeing an expression of anti-Semitism in the most vile possible ways occurring on campuses in all across North America, I have been wondering out loud whether the proper course of action would be, for the biggest donors to these universities to not just withhold their donations, but to demand

back previous donations and say, when I gave you a million dollars, I did not give it to you on the assumption that you would be using it to create an environment that would foster anti-Semitism. I didn't give you money so that you could brainwash kids or at least allow for an environment where brainwashing kids is allowed. So I want my money back. plus interest for misuse of funds. I want to sue the university for misuse of funds. It's funny you brought that up because I just got an email at 901, just a half hour ago, 40 minutes ago,

because I went to Western and I got one of these fundraising emails. I just got it this morning. And it's all about, hey, it's we're living through a time of profound change across Canada and the world, blah, blah, blah. And you're not affecting the change that I expected. Sorry, not sorry. I want all my money back. And you put enough of those people together,

that's going to hurt them where it really matters. Hey, do you accept Westman's excuse? How far should schools and police services go to expose online hatred? We want to hear from you next right here on the Benmolini show. What are the obligations of the leaders of our institutions of higher education in terms of keeping students safe and creating students safe? an environment where everybody can be who they are and need to be as they grow up and as they grow up on campus. There's a story of a group chat at a University of Western Ontario that was

rife with anti-Semitism, potential violent talk, just some of the most vile stuff you could possibly hear. And despite lawyers presenting what they feel was enough evidence to trigger an investigation, the university has stonewalled. And their justification, is kind of insulting, at least to me. And now I'd like to hear what you have to say. You may disagree with me, so give us a call 4168-7-0-60-400 or 1-3-8-2-25 talk. Let's start with Frank. Frank, thanks so much for calling and happy Friday.

Good morning, Ben. I'm surprised they got to the point that it did. In the circumstances, as they are, with those threats and with the university officials, not doing anything to stop or curb, but rather it appears to be condoning this, this poisonous kind of learning environment. It's in contravention to human rights legislation. Actually, the employees that have been impacted can file a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario, alleging a poisonous environment, and also indicting and alleging that these senior officials at the university are not doing anything about it.

They then could be liable under the concept of vicarious liability, and the students could get damages awarded, competitive. compensatory damages and damages to them by being impacted the way that they have been impacted and the way they have been, they continue to be impacted. Yeah. Well, listen, thank you for that. But before I let you go, let me ask you, you know, this is, because one thing is going to happen, I think that's clear, is if they continue by stonewalling and saying things like,

oh, we don't have enough information, which I look at the information that we were able to get with a simple Google search, I say, well, you're clearly either being disingenuous or you're, or you're being obtuse, or you're lying, we don't know what it is. But at some point, if they don't take some form of action that looks like accountability and looks like consequences

for the people in this group chat, then the province will step in. And if they step in, I don't know, I know what's going to happen. The university is going to turn around. They're going to claim that their academic freedom is being taken away and persecution. When in point of fact,

they're the ones who started this by not doing their jobs. What do you think about that? That's a great point, Ben. But what the university needs to do right now is to agree to an independent investigator outside of the chain of command within the university. That's where the problem exists right now. They're covering it up. And unless they do that, that can be the subject of a complaint to human rights tribunal where they can they can allege also the bad actions, the bad faith actions on the part of senior officials not engaging in an independent person to investigate everything and then to make a recommendation to curb

disbehavior yeah frank thank you so much for the call i hope you have a great weekend you too ben all right we've got uh who do we have richard calling all the way from surrey bc richard thanks so much for calling it it's not richard it's barinda from surrey bc oh barinda from surrey bc i i've called so before to you um i'm an ally of the jewish community um and you know i've I've been very robust with my pro-Israel stance, though. And I think what we need to need, though, is a, us, as on our side, we need better arguments, stronger, know what we're fighting for. We also need better communication with on any side of the spectrum.

We need better civil discourse. So we need better, more conversations worth having, not shouting that, just invited. I completely agree. I find it very frustrating that I can sit here, and I can say I'm a firm and staunch believer in the Jewish people of this country. I'm a Zionist. I believe in Israel's right to exist and defend itself. I can also say that I believe in a two-state solution, but we are not there yet. And no one wants to hear that part.

As soon as they hear Zionist, they see red and they ascribe all sorts of terrible motivation to me instead of listening to everything I have to say. And then on the other side, I have a tough time, if I'm being honest, having a conversation with with with because there's so many different aspects to the to this fight right there are plenty of there are plenty of reasonable people who want to talk and yet at the same time you've got you've got you've got people like that you have people like who are in this group chat muddying the waters it's very people people have their biases right and i always stated that i'm like i'm indian origin right born in canada right and i've always been a father if we defer by community

the sea community right so what he's done for us and you know i always say, you know, like us Indians, we gave Muslims Pakistan and Bangladesh. Have we ever attacked Pakistan? Right? So what gives the Hamasori to attack Israel? Yeah. You know, that people don't even see that. That can see that's out of the story. We need better communication. And like you're saying, yeah, it's stuff like the

we chat and that sort of stuff. I mean, these people, please, like this has be a better way to just talk about violence all the time. Absolutely. Hey, thank you very much for the Calverinder. I appreciate it. Have a great weekend. You too, bye. Okay, we've got time. Let's see. Let's invite who's this one? This is Ben. Ben, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hello. Yes. Welcome to the show, Ben. Yes. How are you? I'm well, thank you. How are you? I'm doing very well, thanks. I do not support the rise of anti-Semitism in North America or anywhere in the world. However, let's look at the root cause of the rise of anti-Semitism in the last two years. I think it's fair to say the conflict in the Middle East, the murder of innocent Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank,

is the direct correlation between why we are seeing a rise in anti-Semitism in the last two years. I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with the indigenous people, how they have been treated, the Catholics, the Caucasians, the blacks. I think there's a direct correlation, and we can point the finger at the Israeli government for the mass murder of innocent Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank. Okay, I mean, listen, that's your opinion. I tend to look at the exact same situation and say none of this was happening before October 7th. Sure, October 7th is horrible.

Sure, but for you to just for you to sort of poo-poo that and say it started with what happened in Gaza after October 7th, you know, I think the genesis of what we're dealing with today was October 7th. and to diminish and minimize that and say, no, no, it's everything that happened afterwards. That's why people are anti-Semitic. No, no. This started on October 7th. And listen, we can continue that. Continue.

What do you say to what I just said? Absolutely. You know, October 7th was absolutely horrible. But let's talk about October 6th or 1948. What has Israel done in between? Oh, well, what did they do? They successfully prosecuted every aggressive war against them. They sat there.

They were given back their land and their neighbors tried to push them into the sea time and time again, and they won. How about all the condemnation from the international community in every act that they have broken from the United Nations, Israel? You're talking about the United Nations that is populated by, let's say, Iran that's on the Committee for Women's Rights? They're populated by United States, Germany, France, Canada, the G7. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So are they all bad actors, too? Is Israel the only reliable person that we can ever take at telling the truth, which we all know they don't tell the truth, ever? Oh, ever? Wait, hold on. You want to walk that back? You think that they lie every time they open their mouth? 95%. Okay. Well, on that, we're going to have to disagree because that's a, that's patently untrue. But I do thank you for a good conversation. That's the great thing about North America. We can agree to disagree. Absolutely right, sir. You have a great weekend.

You as well, Ben. Love your show. Thank you so much. See, there you go. That was a conversation worth having. It was. And, yeah, I had a conversation with him before speaking with you. And, yeah, I mean, he talks about a lot of things. But we are missing the fact that what happened on October 7th and was a heinous, heinous crime. And I just wish that, and I don't disagree that Israel is a bad actor. The government at times is a bad actor. Absolutely.

the way they're acting in the West Bank is not great. But let's not ignore the fact there are hostages that are still in this entire war would be over if the hostages were released. Exactly. You do October 7th and you release them on October 10th. The war is over on the 11th. That's a fact. But listen, we'll talk about that. There's many more times to talk about that. I run to the chaos, and Survivor is chaos. Wednesdays on Global. As a mother of a four-year-old, this is vacation. Canada's number one reality show is back.

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