The Ben Mulroney Show - Speed cameras, beluga whales and concussions in Ontario -- what a mix!

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

- Melissa Matlow, Campaign Director at World Animal Protection -Tim Fleiszer – Founder:  The Concussion Legacy Foundation Canada -Sarah Stockdale /   CEO and Founder of Growclass If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We appreciate your time. We appreciate everything you do to help us build this show. Yesterday, at the end of the show, we had quite a delightful surprise, a change of pace, if you will, because Whitney Cummings, one of the great stand-up comics, who's done practically everything a stand-up comedian can do in Hollywood. She's created shows, she starred on shows, she has executive produced, she's written, and she's directed a movie, and now she's coming on tour in Toronto. And it was just a, it was a, we had these notes that we did not use,

because the conversation took us to all sorts of places, and I really appreciate her willingness to do that. and so if you're a fan of her, she's coming to town, I think on October 4th, I could be wrong, but go check it out because she's going to be at the Elgin and Winter Garden Atheir's. The saga that is this province's relationship with speed cameras has taken a new turn. Premier Doug Ford plans to ban automated speed cameras this fall, calling them a municipal, quote, cash grab despite studies that show they cut speeding near schools by up to 45%. Ford said the province will instead fund street calming measures like speed bumps, flashing signs, and turnabouts while deactivating but not removing hundreds of cameras that were already installed.

Now, on the other side of the equation, you got police chiefs, you got doctors, you got sick kids. There was a sick kid study that argued that the cameras are effective safety tools. And now here's something, this was in a Toronto Star article, I'm going to say it. And then I'm going to tell you, I don't believe it. A CAA study found that three quarters of Ontario drivers support speed cameras. I'm calling BS. There's no way. I have never met a human being who likes speed cameras.

Like, I even met one. I'm not saying I know them or we're friends. I have never met a person who likes speed cameras. There's no way that three quarters of Ontarians like speed cameras unless what you're saying is to go back to the top of this, that they are in favor of speed cameras. around school zones, which I have no problem with, no problem, especially if they're already there, you know, but, well, why don't we listen to Doug Ford's reasoning on getting rid of the speed cameras?

So all municipalities are collecting hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't believe that slows it down. So when you live in a community, you find out there's a speed trap, you learn, you slow down. But there's thousands of other people going through the community that aren't slowing down and getting dinged. And if really the strategy is to slow people down, we're going to be giving municipalities across the province, a lot of money,

to put in all sorts of street calming methods, from the little turnabouts, from speed bumps to flashing signs, and that's going to slow people down. The speed traps do not slow people down. They may slow them within the community, but there's so many other people coming throughout the community. So if our goal is to slow people down, which I think is very important by school zones, we're going to give them the money to put the infrastructure in place that will slow people down.

Yeah, I completely support this. By the way, I mean, if the city of Toronto has been raking in hundreds of millions of dollars, then why are we still, why do we still have a budget shortfall? Like this is free money that they're just making up, right? The faster people go, the more money they make. This didn't exist years ago. Where does that money go? Goes right down a rat hole.

Well, I mean, obviously we know there's a lot of things that they're not telling us about what they're spending money on, which they should be a lot more transparent about. But yeah, you're right. And why are my taxes going up double digits over the last couple of years? Well, and listen, now I'm going to say something that I think is real. I think it's true, but I could be mistaken when Ontario decided to opt into their own version of the land transfer tax because David Miller back in the day needed more money. The money was not directed exclusively to something like, say, infrastructure. It just went into general, whatever it's called, the general pot, right? And so once it's in there, it just disappears, right? Because everyone comes for their pound of flesh.

So even though they have that massive amount of money that they were earning that they did not earn before, it's not like it made any big change for the city of Toronto. Well, you know what's going to happen during the next budget, right? If we get rid of the speed cameras, Ooh, they're going to have to make up those millions and millions of dollars. And the only way to find it because they want to spend it on whatever programs they have or whatever it is, is to raise taxes again, as opposed to finding ways to run this city. I owe that money. I am responsible to the city for that money. It's their money. I was just holding on to it.

And we came up with this really fun way of me going a kilometer over the speed limit, and that way I could give it back to them in $100 chunks. It's a big game and it's a lot of fun. and they're going to have to come up with a new game. All right, well, let's remember that last week, and I'll admit I was guilty of this, last week Vaughn Mayor Stephen Del Ducca called an emergency council meeting

and scrapped the city's automated speed cameras, and we were on this show saying, good job, that's leadership, well done. Yeah, but we didn't think about it. We didn't tap into our memories. Right, we should have, because had we gotten into the way back machine and gone back to 2017,

we would have remembered that Stephen Del Ducca was the man who created the legislative framework for the cameras back in 2017 when he was the transportation minister under the liberal government. It was called the Safer School Zones Act. It's not called the Irony Act. So yeah, let's just remember that he was the guy

who brought them in. And he says now affordability is a concern for residents and maybe wasn't back in 2017. And look, when, when facts on the ground change, I like it when the policy changes. There's nothing wrong with that, right?

I have no problem with that. It shows growth, you know? And back in 2017, we had more money in our pockets. Well, people can change their minds. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, my mind has changed on various issues over the years

over the last like five, 10 years. For sure. But, you know, it is absolutely a cash grab. But yeah, you know what? The more I think about it, now, I wonder if we really should keep some of those speed cameras because I just don't want my taxes to go up again. So my suggestion is maybe we keep the speed cameras away from just these, the random spots they put them in, and you put them around schools.

And you make the fines much higher. So if you do speed around a school, you're going to pay for it. You can do that, or you can just put speed bumps up. you cannot speed over a speed bump that's why they're we have speed humps on a street near my house and the speed humps people go flying over and then they remember and they don't do it a second time

or if they do it that's on them but no like they're designed for that they are traffic calming moves when you put them on the street they slow things down and so if you really want to do it why not do that if the issue is the money then just do that but do you think

how fast do you think it takes to put in those speed humps. This is a, it's a trick question because I know the answer. A weekend? No, they don't put them in because on my street in East York, it was promised that they were going to be putting them in last fall. They even put up the signs on our street with, and they put the signs saying these are where the speed humps are going to be, they put, they taped off, they spray

painted the road and all this stuff, but they, because the humps weren't there, they put plastic garbage bags around the signs. Okay. Nothing has been done. Nothing has been done about it. And that was last fall. Have you checked with your, who's your city councilor? Brad Bradford.

You got to ask Bradford was going on. I just did. I just did. And they're like, oh, yeah, nobody's asked about that. We're waiting for it to happen. So I'm waiting for an answer from them. Well, look, I think, I think if you want to put down a speed bump, not a speed panel or whatever you just called it, that's a few hours. It's a few hours.

And what you do is you put two in succession, right, so that someone can't build back up speed after they go down the slow, after they slow down for the first one. And by the way, in case people want to know, the difference between a speed hump and a speed bump, speed bumps are narrower. Yeah. A little higher. Speed humps are those long sort of. Yeah.

But I think you do that in a day and you're all good to go. And anyway, I commend the premier and I commend the former transportation minister. And I commend because they're thinking about the taxpayer. And we also ask Brad Bradford to figure out about the speed humps. Figure out the speed humps. All right. Coming up, what to do about the speed humps. the whales that are still at

marine land. First, I can't believe they're still at marine land. There's no easy answer, and we're going to dig in next right here on the Ben Mulroney show from coast to coast to coast, right here on the chorus radio network. There's a wonderful place in Ontario, where all the dolphins dance in a row

you know, from big to We've got something for all Everyone loves Marine Land You're listening to the Ben Mulroney Show Yeah, I don't think everybody loves Marine Land. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for being here. All right, it's been a blight on this province

for a very long time, Marine Land. I think everybody who lives in and around Toronto, the GTA, southern Ontario, they probably have at least one memory of going to Marine Land. I don't have a strong memory. I think I'm guessing I have to assume I went at one point. But those memories have been sort of shocked back into reality with all of the news that came out of the mistreatment of the animals. So Marine Land was sold and was sold to somebody else and it's been close to the public for over a year,

which means there's no revenue. So what are they doing? How are they caring for these animals? Because it ain't cheap caring for an animal in captivity. And so to discuss that as well as what they're supposed to do next, I'm joined now by Melissa Matlow, campaign director at the World Animal Protection. Melissa, thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. Okay. So did I get the chronology right? We don't know that they're sold. Okay. We don't know who's interested in buying the property, but yes. Okay. They are close to the public.

We think they have 30 beluga whales on site, and we don't know where they're going to go. Okay. I need you to say that again. And there are, to your best guess, 30 beluga whales still in captivity at a now defunct amusement park. Yes, as roller coasters are being dismantled and sold, as the property is getting ready, potentially to be sold for something else. There are not only 30 beluga whales, there are some dolphins, and there may be another 100 other terrestrial animals there. Okay, so what are you supposed to do with? these animals, right? They've been in captivity their whole life, so you can't throw them back

in the ocean. And some of them, I'm sure, have health issues. If the stories are to be believed about how they treated them, you know, they're going to need attention from some, so what, what do you do with them? Who would want these animals? And I'm not trying to be callous, but honestly, who would want these animals? Well, we understand from media reports that there is a venue in China, an entertainment park that is considering potentially buying them. Okay. We understand that Marine land has applied for permits to export those animals. So potentially they're trying to sell them to this Chinese venue. Our concern is that they're just going to be bred and used for entertainment.

So it's just exporting the animal welfare problem there. It's also a horrible way. You know, these animals have suffered enough. Shipping them to China and being used again, I mean, that's not the right solution. Okay, so Melissa, so what would you want to see happen? Well, the ideal situation is for at least some of these animals to go to a seaside sanctuary. There are seaside sanctuaries. There's one in Iceland.

And there's one being established off the coast of Nova Scotia. Oh, really? There is. Okay, so what is a seaside sanctuary? So it is a much bigger space, about 150 times larger than the largest aquarium in the world. And it would provide a more natural environment for these whales where they could actually forage for food and, you know, dive deep and explore natural surroundings. and has something to do instead of floatinglessly in a concrete tank. So they would, I mean, there's certain ones that wouldn't be able to make that trip.

So with the ones that can you would like to see go to those sanctuaries. And what is there, is there a scientific research that happens as well? Yes, absolutely. They could be studied by scientists to understand them better. And this might not surprise you, Ben, but the seaside sanctuary is being held up by government bureaucracy. Oh, shocker. Shocker. Yes. That doesn't, that surprises me to my core. But let's talk about how did we get here. You know, when the story started bubbling up about

the mistreatment, right? And when it started coupling with just it being an icky place that less and less people want to go to, why couldn't the powers that be, you know, the governing bodies, the governments at every level that could have a say, why couldn't they just come in and say, all right, for the public health, animal health, we're closing you down and this is what's going to happen with the animals. Why are we still here and why there's still 30 beluga whales sitting in a defunct amusement park? That is a great question and I don't know. There is no great answer. Premier Ford should strike an emergency conversation about what to do with these animals, be transparent about marine lands plans, bring experts, bring animal welfare

groups, bring other stakeholders who are interested in this issue, including people who want to read or develop the property in Niagara Falls to the table. And this can happen. Yeah. I mean, look, anytime I see a video online of people on a boat who catch a whale, a beluga whale or any whale breaching right by their boat, they have almost a religious experience. the people who were there, when they're in the presence of something like that. That's where these animals belong, right? That's where they belong.

Ideally. Ideally, they belong in the wild. Yeah. And, you know, they can't be returned to the wild, but they could at least have the most natural environment possible. Now, this seaside sanctuary, if the government signaled that was the ideal outcome for the whales and had a meeting with the Premier of Nova Scotia to make that happen and met with the Federal Ministry of Fisheries, I mean, These provinces say they're working well with the federal government. Let's bring everyone together and make this happen. So World Animal Protection Canada was calling for the government to convene a meeting of experts and stakeholders to share information and develop an emergency solution for the beluga whales and dolphins that remain. And then that emergency task force would have a lot of things on its plate.

One of them would be immediate vet care with marine land and independent vets. Do we not know the health of these animals? Is there no third party, independent third party that has access to them? There's no transparency on this at all. And that's why we can't give our best advice without knowing exactly how many animals are there. We only know through media reports. We don't know on their health and welfare status. And you need experts to come in and see if they can be even conditioned to transfer to the sanctuary.

What's that like? How do you get a whale from one place to another? I'm not quite sure. I understand they're called container baths. and they can go by boat and airplane. What I do know is aquariums do this all the time. So they need to be brought to the table as well. Some of the best aquariums can help with this solution.

Is there anywhere else in Canada that you guys have your eyes on? Or is marine land the one and only? Marine land is the most known. But no, Ontario is actually the worst jurisdiction in Canada when it comes to captive wildlife. There are about 30 roadside zoos. These are places that... The Tiger King stuff.

Tiger King's stuff that keep tigers behind flimsy low fences they can easily escape out of that, like, deer fencing with duct tape. These are the kind of things we have in our province. We are the wild west. In Ontario, you're saying that there are unregulated roadside tiger attractions. Yes. Tigers. Real tigers. Real tigers. Real lions. You do not need a license. Lions.

Or any professional qualifications to keep a tiger a lion in your backyard unless there's a minister. bylaw preventing it, it's up to municipalities to enforce. Do you think our municipal officers can deal with this? Well, they've got, no, I mean, oh my God. I'm sorry, I'm reeling here. I'm reeling that there are tigers out there. I mean, I saw a capy bearer one day. It's captivated the entire city. I had no idea that there are lions, tigers, and bears living free. There are more than capy bearers that have been on the lamb in Ontario. We've had a situation where there was a tiger on the 401. We've had a kangaroo on the loose, taking up our OPP's time. This is a serious public safety and animal welfare problem. And we would love to

appeal to your listeners to put pressure on the Ontario government to get it done. Well, look, if you don't know it, then you can't ask for it. And so I'm glad we're doing this day. What do you want to see happen in Marine Land? I would like to see them retire from ever having animal entertainment. Whatever happens to that property. It can have roller coasters and other amusements, just no animals. They shouldn't be in that business. We still aren't clear on whether the family is selling the property. We think so. And we need to learn from this mistake. At one time, Marine Land had 50 beluga whales, the biggest aquarium in the world with the most, yes. I'm sorry, the number is staggered. What do you, what do they need 50

beluga whales for? To entertain people for selfies, of course. Yes, that's fine, but like how big is Marine Land 50 of them? And I'm being sarcastic here. They never should have been allowed to have this many beluga whales in the first place. So we need, even if it could be that there isn't a happy solution for all of these beluga whales, let's be clear. And we need to learn from that and never let this happen again. And stop breeding these animals in these crappy places. I agree.

Melissa Matlow, campaign director at World Animal Protection Canada. Thank you very much. Keep up the fight and we'll do what we can on our end as well. Thank you so much, Ben. Up next, Ontario made a big push back in 2018 to tackle concussions in sport. Well, we got the numbers to show that it's working. Don't go anywhere. This is Ben Mulroney show.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks so much for being here. And if you're a regular listener of the show, then you'll know that most days we talk about some sort of failure by government. And we'll say, oh, this project is, failing. This program is failing. This program went over budget. And I almost always finished the conversations with whomever I'm talking with. Is anybody doing a better version of this anywhere? Is there anything we can learn from somebody else, a best practice somewhere that we can then

bring back to Ontario so we can fix the problem that we have here? Well, this next conversation is a little bit different because Ontario is the only jurisdiction. in Canada that has a law that helps us push back against the terrible damage of concussions. It's called Rowan's Law, and it came into effect in 2018, I believe. And the numbers are now out, and we're going to talk about whether or not Rowan's law has been effective in diminishing the impact of concussions on youth and people playing sports in general. So let's welcome to the show, Tim Fleiser, the founder. of the Concussion Legacy Foundation of Canada.

Tim, welcome the show. Thanks for having me on. Okay, so give our listeners a little more background on Rowan's law, and then we can talk about what we've learned today. So in May of 2013, Rowan, who was a rugby player, captain of her team, sustained a concussion,

didn't tell her parents, told her friends, Googled concussion, and decided that she was going to try and play through it. It was a big game and ended up getting hit again. And we see this so often with concussion. When you sustained one, the brain is very vulnerable. And a second can happen. And in this case, it was a tragic consequence.

So she ended up passing away. And her parents, thinking of them today on Rowan's Law Day, Gordon Kathleen and her sister Cassie have just been unbelievable advocates. Yeah. And they approached Lisa McLean. and Lisa was able to help them with all-party support in Ontario, get Rowan's law passed in 2018. And it was first, as you mentioned, first legislation of its kind in Canada,

for context, all 50 states in the U.S. have some form of concussion legislation. Okay. Sorry, it's one of those. If people can see me, I'm just shaking my head because, of course. Like, okay, but go on. Yes. But please say Ontario has been a leader, as you mentioned previously,

this is a good news story. And so working with our partners at CAMH, specifically with Dr. Jesse Young, who looked at a study and looked at the effectiveness in the law in a number of different ways. We're pleased to report that in the first two years after the law was passed, sports-related traumatic brain injuries went down almost 10%. Yeah. So Dr. Young would pound his fists on the table and said, you know, we don't know for sure that this was a direct result of the law. we need to do more research to confirm that, but it certainly appears that the law is working. And so we are absolutely encouraging other provinces

and territories to follow suit and adopt Rowan's law as well. Okay, so we'll talk about that in a second, but what does the law do that could potentially lead to these better outcomes? So first of all, and I think most importantly is stakeholder education. So today, kids in schools and sport organizations across Ontario are learning about Rowan, learning Rowan's story, and learning how dangerous it is to try and play through a concussion as well as how to recognize the signs and symptoms, not just in their cells, because asking somebody who's neurologically

impaired to self-report is a terrible strategy, but teaching it to recognize these signs and symptoms and others and what to do if they recognize those in their classmates or their teammates. That's the first thing. Second thing is making sure that any athlete who's suspected of having a head injury is removed from play and doesn't go back in until they're cleared by a health care profession. So again, avoids what happened with Rowan. And then finally looking at return to play protocols and having that.

And so an athlete is not returned to play too soon. Well, so what people need to realize is if those numbers are accurate and there's no reason to dispute them, the amount of money saved to the health care system. And look, we're currently living in a health care crisis where there's not enough money and the money that we are putting in isn't leading to particularly good outcomes. So this is something that needs to be heralded. And while, I mean, every province is probably facing similar pressures to what the Ontario health care system is facing, I don't know why they wouldn't look at something like this very seriously, because this is the definition of preventative. We've known for years, Ben, that brain injuries are dramatically underreported and that they are having a much bigger effect on our health care system and health care costs. And so this is a huge step forward, great, as you said, great news coming back that it seems like, like the,

law is being affected and we're very hopeful and optimistic because in August at the FPT meeting, Mr. Minister Lumsden stood up and asked the other provinces to consider expanding Rowan's law. And since that time, we've booked over a half dozen meetings with other provinces and territories and the rest of them are in process. So I'm very optimistic that now may be the time where this finally gets addressed in Canada. Well, yeah, because you've got the knock-on effects on the health care system, but specifically on the mental health care system as well. And then let's also remember, if you have a brain injury, then you're not going to be able to go to work.

And so there's going to be the lost wages and there's going to be the lost tax revenue. I mean, all of these things are interrelated. And as I've always said, I'm a best practices guy. Show me something works and I will, I'll support it. It doesn't matter whose idea it was. So this is a brilliant idea. Tim, tell me, why did you found this organization? Why was this important to you?

So as a former professional football player and at that point, I was transitioning. into my next career as a sports agent and love sports, care about sports. We were talking earlier. I have three young boys, you know, who came out of the womb contact sports athletes. Yeah. They currently play soccer.

I'm their hockey coach. And so I just felt like, like, if I didn't do this work, who was going to? Yeah. And it's so important, you know, a friend of mine, my best friend here in Toronto, one of his best friends growing up, had a traumatic brain injury. And so we ran a marathon to raise money for him because he didn't have his job anymore and to see what that did to him and his family. And then you got

to repeat that many, many times over. And that's the human cost. And so anything that we can do to help mitigate those issues. I also heard possibly in good news that the number of brain injuries that have been reported by the NFL has gone down and they think that might have something to do with the new helmets. Have you been, have you been staying on top of that? Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure. Helmets haven't really shown to help in terms of concussions. Helmets are really good at preventing skull fractures and facial lacerations. I would argue it's innovation in terms of things like the new kickoff. Oh, yeah.

Right? I mean, that's, we know that's a play in football where 30% of brain injuries was happening. And so having that new kickoff that that you see in the NFL, I think has been helpful in doing that. And the biggest thing that the NFL has done, unfortunately, has not yet filtered down all the way to minor football, but it's reducing the number of impacts in practice. Yeah. Last two collective bargaining agreements, both the NFL and the CFL really puts a lot of limits in terms of how much full contact practice. So I think that would be a big part of it. And, you know, lastly, before we go, we only have about a minute left, but I want to get your take on the changes to the CFL field.

So it's not 110 yards anymore. It's 100 yards, right? And they're essentially making it look a lot more like an NFL field. What do you think of that? Well, I think, first of all, let's withhold judgment until we actually see the product. And so, you know, I'm interested to see what it looks like. And, you know, I know there's a lot of outcry and a lot of controversy around this. And so I'm going to take the position that.

I want to see it. And listen, you can always change back if it's not working. Okay. Lastly, let's get back to Rowan's law. You talked at the beginning about Rowan's family. How are they feeling today knowing that out of the sadness that they had to deal with, something really positive has come out? I mean, they've just been incredible.

And I think, you know, what a model to all the rest of us in terms of their resilience. Yeah. You know, the worst tragedy that anyone can experience. and they've turned it into good. And Kathleen very eloquently said, you know, Rowan's dream was to be a nurse and to help kids. And through this law,

she's fulfilling her dream of helping kids, which is such a lovely sentiment. That is beautiful. Tim Fleiser, founder of the Concussion Legacy Foundation of Canada, thank you very much for being here. All the best to you. Keep your kids safe. And you can come back and give us your assessment

of this new field at the end of the season. And congratulations on this great news. Ontarians are using AI more than ever, but we're not training anybody. So what's next? Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. I don't think a day goes by that we don't reference AI and the changing landscape that comes with its adoption. No matter what the industry, it is getting turned upside down. and if used properly, it can help accelerate the growth of a company.

It can take it from worse to first. And more Ontarians are using AI now than ever, but we're not necessarily training people. I don't know that we're doing it optimally. And there is a new study that reveals a widening gap between the rapid adoption of AI tools and the training and confidence that workers need to use them effectively. So to drill down into this, we're joined now by the CEO. and founder of Grow Class, Sarah Stockdale. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Ben. So tell us what Grow Class is. So Grow Class is an education company, and we focus on upskilling Canadians, specifically in AI and marketing. And the goal is always to help them get into better paying jobs. And how do you use AI at your job? I use AI every day.

I have dendic flows. that do research on people I'm about to meet, like you. I have custom GPTs that are built on a lot of the work that I've done, that help me write emails, that help me write support questions. I always have one or two, AI. Okay. Well, this study that came out that says nearly half of Ontarians are already using AI at work. 44% of Ontarians report using AI tools on the job.

That's higher than the national average. only two are mandated by their employer. And we can go through all of these points. But my assessment of what I read is that, you know, this is sort of like the conquering of the West, if you will. In the United States, it was the Wild West and people went out there and they staked their claim and they figured it out on the fly. And in Canada, we sort of, had we done that, the people going out west would have just been

standing there twiddling their thumbs we needed the police to go in first and then we had to get the train in there and and it's it feels like that with ontario workers they're looking for leadership they're looking for direction and otherwise they just default to using chat gpt as a as a search engine yeah exactly um it is really hard for workers especially ones who are being pressured by their employers to use AI at work but not given guardrails or training like tools that they're allowed to access like that is a really hard landscape to navigate and and so so what what is your recommendation then if if the tools exist if adoption and the willingness to adopt by employees is there what's missing because there's no way that this system is and what these numbers there's no

way that they are, like we can't come to the conclusion that we're setting ourselves up for success here? No, we're absolutely not. And we've started running pilot programs that are showing really interesting success. So I'm working on one right now called AI Skills Lab Canada. We're focused on training women business owners so that they can bring real adoption roadmaps into their organizations and train their employees. So we're training the business owners first to give them confidence and to give them a strategy so that they actually feel confident in what they can tell their employees and what training they should bring in for their teams. So I would say we have to upskill business owners first because a lot of the hesitation to training

is like they don't even know what they're asking their teams to do. So they need to have a clear vision and a roadmap and a strategy. And then we need a national upskilling initiative to get Canadians, the like over 70% of them who have received no training at all. We need to get them using these tools in effective and useful ways. And look, if anybody's listening at home right now, I don't need AI, I do my job just fine. There was a study by PricewaterhouseCoopers that said that AI adoption could boost Canada's GDP to $3.7 trillion by 2033. That is a leap forward, the likes of which you only get with these revolutions, and it's important for us to not get left behind in the community of nations.

Because, you know, there are some countries that are going to adopt it, a whole hog, and they will do so optimally. And if we don't, the size, the heft, the importance of our country relative to these other ones is going to go down. yeah we we lag behind most international uh countries in training and adoption who's who's doing it right step it up uh they're like a lot of um my peers in san francisco are really focused on this right now it doesn't mean that all kind of silicon valley style adoption is good but i've seen a lot of especially companies that we work with in the u.s really focus on training and really focus on adopting in an appropriate ways because wholesale adoption can't always be useful no well because look because even even like within a big company there are

there are different tools for different jobs like HR professionals are using AI more than any other sector at 81% but they've also received the most training at 33% and if that's the most training that is a woefully low number but they're also the most concerned about being replaced by AI. Meanwhile, digital technology professionals are more confident in their ability to use AI effectively, followed by non-profit professionals and government

and communications marketing professionals. So yeah, this is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It can't be. No, and it has to be tailored to the business, the industry, and the size of business, because what you are going to adopt is going to

vary greatly, depending on what problems you are trying to solve. Yeah. So are you, when you look at these numbers, are you bullish on Canada's future as it relates to the adoption of AI? Or are you looking at and saying, oh, my God, we got to take this back. We've got to take this back down to the studs.

I'm a little in between because I'm excited to see that, you know, 44% of Ontarians are using it in their job. 42% of Canadians are using it at work. and that's pretty exciting. I am very worried that they're just kind of using it, like you said, maybe just querying chat GPT once a day. Yeah. We don't know what that adoption looks like because they haven't been trained.

So I'm excited that adoption is accelerating. I'm concerned that we don't know what that adoption looks like and if it's positive or not. And also like because AI is still new and it's embryonic compared to where it's going to be in the future, if people, if employees don't get on on the AI boat now, they will be left behind, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. And we are also seeing women and underrepresented people adopting AI tools more slowly for very valid reasons. There are a lot of concerns that people have around adopting these tools, but we're starting to see a gender gap open up here. And that is going to be a huge problem for productivity in the future as well.

And why is that? There's a couple of really good reasons. Women are concerned specifically around the ethics of these tools, the biases that they can introduce, that they hallucinate. I'm talking about generative, I ask specifically. And there's also socialized, we are socialized to take less risks with technology and it works. So there has to be more hands-on training. There has to be more network effect of seeing other women, especially women business owners using these tools. and we need more support.

And would you say that if we want to leave our audience with one key bullet point, it's that we need more leadership on this file and that leadership can come from anywhere, but in the case that we're talking about right now, it probably needs to come from the top of every company? Yes. Yep. It needs to come from governments and business owners. Yeah. I mean, listen, if you're a business owner and you're listening to this and you've got, you know, let's say you got 50 employees, It's incumbent upon you to get them trained.

Give them that continuing education that, A, they want, and B, you need because your competitor is on it today. And if you don't take advantage of the same technology revolution, he's going to be eating your lunch this time next year. Or she. So anyway, I want to thank you so much for joining us. It's been Sarah Stockdale, the CEO and founder of Grow Class. And yeah, here's hoping that this time next year, those numbers have been. improved, and I wish you the very best on this hump day into the end of the week. We're renovating a hotel, expanding our resort, and breathing some life back into the lake house.

All while raising a family. It's messy. real, and it's all us. Exciting. I can't tell if that's your exciting face. This isn't just construction. This is our life. Who needs sleep? Building Bomber, all new Sundays, on Home Network.

Stream on Stack TV. I do.