The Ben Mulroney Show - The Charlie Kirk Assassination/A manhunt in Toronto for a pair of teens

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

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This show is sponsored by Better Help. Let's be honest. We've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs. Most people get it right the first time, but if it's not a match, you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and

you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulroney. That's better H-E-L-P.com slash Mulroney. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on Thursday, September 11th. Thank you so much for joining us. This is day three of my time here in Winnipeg, Men.

I want to thank the people at C.J.O.B. for making me feel so at home, giving me free rain over the coffee maker, which has been vital, as well as a wonderful studio. The people could not have been more inviting and really, really sincerely thankful. The city's been welcoming. The food's been great. The weather's been fantastic. And last night's event, the reason I came to Winnipeg was a high watermark. It was the celebration of the 150th anniversary of B'nai Bres. Canada's oldest independent human rights organization and I had a 45 minute sit down with Canada's 22nd Prime Minister Stephen Harper. We're going to have a clip of that conversation a little bit later in the show and then this afternoon we're going to be posting the more the broader conversation that we had and we touched on a number of subjects. We talked about the rise of anti-Semitism. Are we on a path that we can't get off of? Or is it simply the sad ebb and flow, waxing and waning of anti-Semitism over the course of history that we're witnessing. We even spent some time being optimistic about this new liberal government.

What is there to look to to say, hey, they're doing a great job. We didn't want to end on anything negative. That was the end point of the conversation. But I have to say, the older I get and the more time I spend with Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the more I realize I've got lots to learn from that man. And he was magnanimous and generous, insightful, honest, and I think you'll all appreciate the fireside chat. I wish we could start the show with something other than what I think you know we're going to talk about, the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And Charlie Kirk was the head of Turning Point USA.

It's a right-wing group. He founded in 2012. He organizes on universities and high school campuses. And he shows up and he debates. That's what he does. He helped shape MAGA public opinion through his podcast, through his social media presence. And he is credited with helping bring out the youth vote for Donald Trump. Now, for those of you who don't know his name, you might recognize his voice.

Let's listen to Charlie Kirk in his own words describing what he does and why he does it. Well, considering I've been assaulted, followed, stalked, and had things thrown at me, the greatest protection I have is Tamras. We record all of it so that we put on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that's when you get violence. That's when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil and they lose their humanity. Marriages break apart when you stop talking. Churches fall apart. And I think what makes this country on the verge of going to a place we don't want it to go right now is we're afraid to go to places like this and have these conversations.

I'm not. Yeah. Well, it's sad to say that the country is in that place and the United States has lost Charlie Kirk. And he was 31 years old. He was a father of two. He was a husband. He was a friend. He was somebody who had a vision of America that he wanted to see manifest. And whether you agree with that or not, that was his God-given right and it was taken away from him. So he was fielding questions at Utah Valley University in Utah. About 3,000 people showed up. And he was fielding questions and talking about mass shootings involving transgender people. And then another about the number of mass shootings in general.

During that exchange, a single gunshot rang out. I want you to hear the last words spoken by Charlie Kirk. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America? over the last 10 years counting or not counting gang violence great so that was his last argument that was at about 12 20 p.m. mountain time so 220 eastern audience members panicked people dropped to the ground there was a scramble to evacuate uh kirk was removed by a security detail and there are lots of videos that show someone running across the roof of a building which was about 200 yards away from where was speaking. Now, 200 yards,

for those of you don't know, that's about the equivalent of two American football fields. That person that they stopped was later released, according to the FBI. And so, I remember, I was in my hotel room when this happened. I got word

in the elevator on my way to my room that there had been shots fired at a Charlie Kirk event. I get to my room, and then that story becomes Charlie Kirk has been shot. So I take to YouTube and I start looking for live coverage of the event and

it starts the only coverage I can get at that point is local coverage. The people who are there covering the local affiliates who are the CBSes, the foxes from that town. But in short order this becomes a national

story and that's when the big guys, the ones that we look to for sober conversation about emotional issues. That's when I moved to the first available feed that I found, and it was MSNBC. And boy, did they disappoint. I need the full details of this. We don't know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off

in celebration, or so we have no idea about this. But following up what was just said, he's been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this, who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to hateful thoughts, lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions. That was MSNBC pundit Matthew Dowd, who was summarily fired after not suggesting, literally saying that he caused his own death, victim blaming the assassin, the man assassinated. And of course, he then put out his own mea culpa saying, that's not what I was suggesting. Yes, it was.

In that moment, you told us what you believed. And you're doing damage control. And that's fine. And we make mistakes. But this is the consequence of that, of being the wrong person for MSNBC to turn to in a moment that required clarity and even-handed appropriate. analysis. He wasn't the only person guilty of that BS. MSNBC anchor Katie Turr sort of started positing some pretty nonsensical positions in that same moment. After one of the Doge employees was allegedly attacked in Washington, D.C., that's what Donald Trump used as a justification

to send in federal troops into Washington, D.C. to get things under control. The car situation. He used that. And I know it's hard to predict the future, Mark, but you can imagine the administration using this as a justification for something. I must admit, I'm at a loss to guess as to what happens next. He wasn't dead yet. He wasn't dead. Or at least they had not announced his passing. And Katie Turr is already going down a rabbit hole of what knows. nefarious actions. Donald Trump is going to use the, with the cover of this shooting, what terrible things are, is Donald Trump going to do next?

Matthew Dowd lost his job. Katie Turst still there. And so the shock was setting in. Once I realized that what I was, what I was getting from MSNBC was a steaming pile of dog crap. I turned to somebody who knew him. And you know, you may disagree with her, but I thought I would probably get something a little more respectful for Megan Kelly. And she was going live during this event. Here's what she had to say. Have you guys seen the video I saw? Yeah, I've seen it. I find it hard to believe it's fake because I know the sick mind that would

not only fake that but fake it instantly so yeah if that video is real there's no way he can survive this no no he's an extraordinary guy but no yeah i'm sorry i didn't mean to jump on that but um she knew him she cared for him he was a friend of hers uh and uh the presence of mind uh and the poise that she showed in conveying the truth as she sought and the facts on the ground as they were presenting. It was a very, very even-handed, very even-handed. I'm sure there are people out there who reject what I just said out of hand without having seen what she said and listened to what she said.

But you can take my opinion on it. I thought she conducted herself with grace and did a great service to his memory as she recounted what was happening. So let's go back to this person who was detained. He was a 71-year-old man named George Zinn. He was arrested at the seat. officers later determined he didn't match the shooter's description. And this Mr. Zinn is described as a gadfly with a history of disrupting political events.

Police said he faced a possible obstruction charge. Another person was detained, but released as well. And this Zinn guy just kept saying, I have the right to remain silent. I have the right to remain silent. I'm glad that once they realized it wasn't him, they let him go. And I do hope that cooler heads prevail and this George Zinn character. is not being maligned online and his life is not being made any harder because he's been named as part of this investigation.

Let's let's just, oh, I think we're going to, sadly, sadly we've got, yes, before we go to break, let me play for you, Megan Kelly discovering and announcing the passing of her friend Charlie Kirk at the age of 31. Charlie Kirk's been shot at an event in Utah, one of his student, events that he does all over the country. And we are awaiting word on his condition. It happened earlier and we got word. We did not want to come to air with the news until we knew whether it was true. We knew that a shooting had occurred. But now everyone from President Donald Trump on down has confirmed he's been shot. Charlie's been shot. He's been shot. It appeared in the

neck. There is video of the event of the shooting that took place. from far away. We're going to show you that, Utah Valley University. This is graphic. It's not as graphic as some of the films that is being represented as out there right now. And they're reporting that Charlie has died. That he's dead. At the age of 31. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us. All right. We're talking about the assassination of right-wing firebrand Charlie Kirk at the age of 31, father of two, husband, staunch supporter of Donald Trump.

And his reason to be his reason for being what we know him for if we know him. And a lot of us do more learning about him today was that he. was someone who engaged in debate, he would go to college campuses and sit there and field questions from fan and foe alike, one by one, talking to them about whatever issue was mattered to the person at the microphone. Very strong convictions. And while you may not have agreed with all of them, as a matter of fact, I mean, if I had to place a number on it, I'd say I agreed with him on maybe 40% of his views at that, at most. So you may not have agreed with him on much or on anything he said.

But that, to me, doesn't matter one iota. How is he evil? Because there are people dancing on his grave today. He offered three words to all, prove me wrong. The people celebrating his death before he was even declared dead. They refuse to debate because they are right, in their minds, they are right, morally superior, self-righteous. they also refused to step up to the mic and prove that they were right.

You knew where Charlie Cook stood from a mile away with a bullhorn he was telling you what he stood for, what he was proud to stand for, what he wanted America to become. It may not have been the America you wanted, but he was going to fight using his words to get that done. Let's look at some of his positions. Let's look at what he believed on religion, keeping in mind. He was a staunch born again Christian. Here's what he thought about religion. He framed everything through his love of God.

He was critical of Islam. This was his point of view. I think Islam is incompatible with large parts of Western civilization. I think Islam is. But look, I mean, you make an important point. If you think you could just import millions of people into your country, and assimilation will happen overnight just because they're going to start eating at McDonald's and in and out burger and wearing blue jeans, it's not true.

And so we want unity and assimilation. And quite honestly, that's why I think we should shut off all immigration, legal and illegal for the time being, as we did in the 1930s, 40s, 50s, and 60s. Did he deserve to die for that? Let's look what he had to say about immigration. He was not a fan in its current form. Do you believe that being here in America here is a right or a privilege? Is a right and a privilege? You have a right to be here?

Yes, I believe anybody has a right to movement to wherever they want. So you would get rid of all borders? Yes. So when you land from an international flight at JFK Airport, no passport checks? Nope. Thank you for so bluntly telling us your view. I mean, I'm a dirty commie, so, yeah. Okay. Did he deserve to die for that?

one of the most contentious issues that people ascribe to him was his position on abortion. As I said, born-again Christian, he believed that life begins at conception, including in the cases of rape. That's anathema to who I am, but he has every right to say it, especially in the public square. not for nothing, recent polling in the U.S. puts the percentage of people identifying as pro-life at about 43%. So I ask those who are dancing on his grave are 43% of Americans fascist. Is that the fiction that you hang your hat on? Another contentious issue, trans issues. He respected how people want to live their lives, but felt it was intellectually dishonest for him to say that someone born a man can be a woman. that was his position. You were only a woman if you were born with XX chromosomes. What is a woman was one of the questions he would put to those on the opposing side? And if I'm being honest, I've watched a lot of people try to answer that question

and should be a pretty easy question to answer. It's a lot of people default to circular reasoning. A woman is someone who identifies as a woman. That's not an answer by any metric that you would judge proper debate by. And so let's listen to him. What is a woman? So what is a woman? I, dude, I don't know. That one's hard. That's your, dude, that's your line.

And I think that's hard to say, man. I don't know. But then, but what do you think is a woman? Well, a woman is an adult female with XX chromosomes. It's not difficult, right? I disagree. I don't think so. But if you disagree, why? But then what is your alternative? Oh, I don't know. I just, I don't agree with that. You disagree without an alternative. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, I think that's, I think that's a fair thing to say.

But you disagree, but you must have some opinion. What is your opinion of what a woman is? I really don't know. I think that's a, it's a gender. I think it's a gender, more than a sex. I think sex is female, and then a woman is like gender. Yeah, that's what I would say. A civilization that can't define very basic biological terms and stay close to them is a civilization in moral chaos.

Did he deserve to die for that? There were a lot of people who hated him, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know why. Let's listen to some of the people who have. opposed him. We don't want Charlie Kirk on our campus. We don't want fascists on our campus. We don't want to support that here. What is fascinating? I don't know. I'm not like a political scientist. I'm not, I'm not good at interviews. You should ask someone else. He's a fascist. What's a fascist? I don't know. Okay. Here is Charlie Kirk defending himself against that, that epithet. How do you feel about being called a fascist? I don't care of being lied about.

Why is it a lie? Because I'm not a fascist. I believe in a free society. Let me ask you, who's the fascist? The guy that's smiling in the sun or the 500 people barking trying to prevent me from speaking? Yeah, I subscribe to that entirely. On that point, he and I agree completely. Most of his critics have no idea why they hate him. And the irony is the people who hated him the most were essentially arguing against free speech, which is a defining aspect of fascism. It's projection to the, to the end. degree. Let's listen to some of the awful, awful, despicable reaction to the death of a 31-year-old father of two. I've never been happier. Never believe the reason I'm smiling. And it has

nothing to do with Charlie Kirk. Yeah, they got Charlie Kirk, bro. I've never been happier. Never believe the reason I'm smiling. And it has nothing to do with Charlie Kirk. Nothing to do with I would say pour one out for kirkie boy, but I don't waste good beer on little bitches. I haven't posted on TikTok in a long time, but I'm going to now because rest in peace, bozo. I don't have to go on with that, but I did want to end this segment with the acknowledgement that while we are not the United States, we are not immune to the toxicity that we are currently engaged. and in our public discourse. This is a tweet from a University of Toronto professor. Her name is Dr. Ruth Marshall. I will say her name again to the people at the University of Toronto, Dr. Ruth Marshall. Shooting is honestly too good for so many of you fascist see words. Dr. Ruth

Marshall. And in reaction to that, I saw somebody else who tweeted, I don't know this person, his name was Jack Montgomery. And this is the point I want to end on. Even when celebrating a murder, These people think that their evil sentiments are proof of their humanity. That may be the most dangerous thing about them. After the break, we're going to update you on two stories that everyone is talking about and has been talking about over the past month. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show.

This show is the Ben Mulroney show. This show is sponsored our problems in some pretty funny play. places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs. Most people get it right the first time. But if it's not a match,

you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com.

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Learn more at slur.com and ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellas lenses at your child's next visit. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show. We're going to touch on two stories that are important to so many people in the greater Toronto area. And they have consumed a lot of our discussion on this show in the past a few weeks. Let's start with Daniel Seneca. You'll remember he's a 25-year-old man from Welland, Ontario who was arrested and charged in connection with a serious, disturbing child sexual assault that occurred on August 31st. The incident involved the alleged sexual assault

of a three-year-old during a break-in at her home while her parents were present but unaware. And actually, if I'm not mistaken, I think there might be a little bit of that the notion of whether or not it was a break-in, per se, is still up in the air as there is the possibility that he was known to the family in a fairly personal way, which to me challenges the definition of a break-in. But don't take my word for that. I would default to the authorities. So Daniel Seneca, obviously, court appearance in St. Catharines. And he was remanded into custody with a future date of October 15. Here's where the story gets really interesting. Hundreds of people fed up with what they view as weak bail laws protested for stricter sentences for violent offenders.

Now, he's currently being held in segregation at the Niagara Detention Center. He's requested a transfer to the Vanier Center for Women if he doesn't get bail because he claims he's transgender. I do not believe this man deserves the respect that others who identify as a different gender deserve. I'm not giving it to him. I refuse. He is Daniel Seneca. I'm going to call him a guy. He's a bad guy.

And that's what you're getting from me. And so this is, I want you to hear some of the anger in the crowd outside of the courthouse. Petlaus come. Give him to us. Give him to us. Give him to us. Yeah, no, okay. So I wanted you to hear the anger by.

me airing it and sharing it with you, I in no way endorse the notion of giving him to us. That is not the system we have. As flawed as our system is, it needs to work as intended. And nobody on this show will ever suggest that the appropriate course of action is to hand over an accused pedophile to an angry mob. I wanted you to hear it because this is something fairly new in my estimation. We haven't seen this in a long time. We haven't seen a group of people angry to the point of mobilizing outside of a courthouse demanding changes to the system. I have oftentimes lamented the fact that most people, at least in the area I live in, go out and if they vote, they vote. And other times they don't, they just complain, which is they're right.

They don't have to vote. The system works better if you vote. But then they sort of put their hands in the air and say, well, that's it. I mean, what else can I do? Well, I'm not getting the results I want. I don't believe that my politicians are following through on the things I hope they would. But I don't really have any power. This is one aspect of what people can do in order to voice their protest.

People on the left absolutely protest when they disagree with something. But the others, the people call it the silent majority, call it the people in the middle. call it the mushy middle, call it what you want. This is a mobilization, the likes of which I have not seen often and certainly not recently. So that's one story. The other one is, of course, the tragedy of a life cut short, eight-year-old Jave Roy, who was shot in his bed when a spray of bullets tore through his home, killing him as he slept, destroying his family. That happened about 12.30 a.m. on August 16th. There has been an arrest made.

A 15-year-old boy has been charged with first-degree murder. Two 17-year-olds are wanted, or rather one 17, one just turned 18. The police have released their mugshots as well as their names. But we will not be saying their names on this show, not out of respect for these boys and these alleged criminals, but because once arrested, the youth criminal judge, Justice Act kicks in. And if I mention that kid's name here, we will have to delete the podcast. So I'm not, if you can make sense of that, you're smarter than I. But that's how the system works. I am not going to, I'm not going to do a disservice to you or to Javeh or to his family. I'm not going to say their name so that this remains as part of the record. I want you to hear from Javei Roy's family on where they're at right now. I want to start by saying how much I miss, how much I miss my son.

And I want to say thank you to the Toronto Police Service and everybody that was involved in finding those accountable. That was his mom, Holly Roy, and the sadness in her voice, that's not going away. That's going to be baked into who she is for the rest of her life. because her son, the person to whom she gave life, was taken from her. That does not, that that is a hole that is never filled. I want you to hear now from Marcel Wilson, whom we've spoken to before, former gang member, now a significant community leader, friend of the family. This is what he wants you to know about what's going on in the community

and how they believe that there are people in the community working to the community working to detriment of justice. Somebody definitely knows who they are. I mean, there's definitely a network of people. This is the sad part, you know, this, the, the subculture, urban subculture of, you know, snitches, get stitches is still very relevant, unfortunately, and prevalent. So I would put my money on. It's more than one person, you know, how.

helping and harboring these people. Yeah. Look, in a time like this, there are white hats and there are black hats. There are good guys and there are bad guys. And the bad guys are out there. There are people in the community who are according to someone in that community, a former gang member saying they are being harbored by members of the community. They are preventing this family from finding solace and peace because they will not help the police who in this moment are wearing the white hat from

finding justice and allowing swift justice to occur and for this boy to rest in peace. Meanwhile, the definition of adding insult to injury is the fact that this woman who lost her son also has lost her home. Let's play that. The mayor, I'm sorry, but she promised me something and I still have not seen that. like my family is so displaced and we're, you know, can't even begin to heal from this. My building hasn't even fixed the window on my apartment. I think there's just a lack of empathy or like the city is desensitized.

Well, you'll remember that there are people from that side of the political spectrum who proudly said on a TED talk stage, we are the people who let cities break. and it's not just institutions and it's not just it's not just real estate it's people people make up cities this is the city breaking a woman and I'm not blamed necessarily blaming Olivia Chow but if she made a promise to this this grieving mother and so many weeks later

she still can't sleep in her own home that she's in the shelter system that is a failure it's a moral failure And I said it before. I'm not trying to lionize the man. Rob Ford would have made sure that those windows were fixed and she was in that home that night. After the crime scene had been cleared, she would be sleeping in her own bed. She is in the shelter system while mourning the murder of her son. I dare you to pay attention.

I dare you to speak up. I dare you to try something new. I dare you to challenge what you think you know. I dare you to think differently. I dare you to show up. Holland Blurview dares to shape the future of disability healthcare for kids. Together, we dare.

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