The Ben Mulroney Show - The curious case of Travis Dhanraj and his attempt to break up with the CBC

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

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We made it to halfway through September. I want to thank you all for joining us. I want to thank you all for finding us wherever we find you. Are you a podcast listener? Do you watch YouTube? Do you, are you always on social media? Are you a traditional radio listener? Do you stream on a streaming app? We're on all those places. The Ben Mulroney show is in every place that you are. So find us and help us shape this show. If there's something that we do that you have a problem with, we'd love to hear from you if you think that we're being unfair to somebody, please let us know. We'll take that criticism in. And what

comes out the other side is, is me having listened to you, not always agreeing with you, but listening to you, but thank you very much. All right, today is the first day back for the House of Commons. Parliament is back with a new government and a leader of the opposition who has won his by-election. And look, I've told you before, I don't prosecute the previous election. That's done. Canadians have spoken. However, if the Tories had won, I think one of the things that we would be seeing in a new parliament would be a conversation about what Pierre Polia promised defunding the CBC. That is obviously not in the offing. Canadians decided against that. But this next story would be,

would add kerosene to that fire. That's for sure. So we, we've been following the story of former CBC reporter and rising star at that network, Travis Dan Raj. He and I spent some time together at a different company years ago. And I watched with great intent as he, as he moved up the ranks of the CBC to one day just disappear from there. Well, now he and his lawyer have filed their human rights complaint against the CBC. And Travis Dan Raj, I suspect, will not be speaking very much. You hire a lawyer to speak for you, but he did go on to Twitter. And he said, hey, CBC News, just popping on here to say this as clearly as I can.

Stop trying to be a controlling X. I know you're dismayed, but we've broken up. I have Canada as my witness. get to dictate who I talk to or what I say anymore, and I've got a lot to say. Well, let's hear what he asked to say by way of his lawyer. Please welcome to the show, Catherine Marshall. Catherine, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me.

Okay, so give us a lay of the land in a few sentences. Bring our audience up to speed. How did we get to where we are today? Well, we've sued the CBC for human rights, discrimination and retaliation and reprisal and intimidation. And the list goes on and on. Look, we've been in discussion with the CBC for quite some time. Travis was stripped off the air for frankly doing his job after he posted a tweet that the CBC did not like about the CBC's CEO. So we have now sued the CBC.

Travis resigned in July. Now, it was involuntary. So he was really forced to resign because he was being treated so horribly. But the CBC has not even accepted his resignation. They continue to pay him. Okay. And gaslight the whole country

by telling everyone, oh, he's still employed. Yeah. No, he's not. So, so, yeah, I'll say, yeah. So I read the statement that you sent over. There's a lot to unpack there. There's a lot. I mean, the allegations of discrimination and harassment are myriad, everything from

he experienced resistance when promoting political diversity and racial equality. What do you mean by that? I mean, there's this argument that has been pushed that we as a society want our diversity to, we want it to look like diversity. But when it comes to diversity of views, that's where certain people draw the line. Yeah, well, I think that CBC hired Travis for the role of hosting his own show because they tokenized him. I think they looked at him. They looked at the color of his skin.

They thought that he would espouse a certain worldview, a certain liberal worldview, that he didn't, right? Like, that's not his job. He's a journalist. He's not partisan. And when he had his show, he tried to bring on a diversity of views. He tried to book conservative guests. he actually booked a lot of people of different skin colors and ethnic backgrounds and really like he was trying to have those real discussions and that did not go well for him.

Catherine, are you saying that Travis wanted a discussion on his show that reflected the diversity both culturally but also diversity of viewpoint of the country? Are you saying that he deigned to do that? That's a bridge too far, Catherine. My goodness. yeah um you know like and there was jealousy i mean i think you can you read in the claim there was a lot of jealousy from other correspondence because travis was able to actually book conservative guests on his show because he didn't mistreat them he gave them a fair shake he didn't sandbag them yeah um and he didn't just espouse the liberal party talking point so so talk to me again there's also the uh the allegation of a toxic work environment and you know look i think i you

I came from a previous experience that I believe was toxic. I just left because I didn't want to – well, I left for lots of reasons, but one of them was – it just wasn't – it wasn't the place it used to be. Talk to me about what Travis experienced in his work environment. Well, I think anyone who's experienced a toxic workplace, and I'm sorry that you experienced that as well, but like anyone who's experienced it can say it's traumatic to go to work every day and feel like you're under attack.

And, you know, for Travis, like, he was being harassed and he was being bullied, not only by other senior correspondence, but by CBC management. He was being called into meetings with HR present and his union present. You know, his union's supposed to protect him, but they're there complicit. And they're telling him, you need to stop. You need to, you know, close your mouth. You need to put your head down. Travis tried to have the CBC investigate the abuse that he was experiencing and the discrimination, and CBC refused.

And to this day, they have not investigated anything, he alleged. Really? In contravention of their own policies. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, so we move on from that to the moments around when he was parting ways with them, the retaliation, the constructive dismissal. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so Travis's tweet is bang on because the CDC's behavior towards him and, like, the final months of his employment is absolutely the kind of things that I see, like, abusive partners engage in. It's all about control. So, CBC really wanted Travis to sign an NDA and resign. That was their ultimate goal. Travis refused to sign the NDA. He refused to be gagged and silenced.

And so the CBC started doing things to him to force him to do it. They told him that he owed them money for overpayments. But then when I asked, they wouldn't clarify what those overpayments were. And they said, oh, if you don't, you know, if you just sign this NDA and resign, we won't send the creditors after you. Oh, God. Jeez. Yeah, they demoted him. They said, look, if you're coming back on air, you're going to.

to be in this demoted role where you're earning less and you no longer have your own show. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine what that would do to him, especially if he's been marginalized and made to feel like he's alone on an island with no one to help him. At what point did he seek legal counsel? At one point, did he say, I can't do this alone. I've got to find a lawyer.

I've got to reach out to Catherine. Yeah, I've been working with Travis since about February. And, you know, we did. We tried to work with the CBC. Like I, you know, at first, you know, our, our intention wasn't that, you know, he resigned or anything. You know, Travis wanted his job back. He wanted his show back. He wanted things to be made right. And it was honestly like banging my head against the concrete pillar. Yeah. I also tried to deal with the union. Yeah. The union. Yeah. Useless. Yeah. Well, we don't have a lot of time left. So I just want to run through this, you know, the relief that you guys are

seeking or damages for wage loss and pain and suffering, comprehensive, a comprehensive CBC investigation of DEI and harassment policies and implement implementation of whistleblower protections for employees reporting systemic workplace issues. Do you have any faith that if you get what you want here, they are able to investigate themselves or should this be done by an outside organization? And Catherine, I'm up against the clock, so if you can answer me in about 30 seconds. Yeah, absolutely. We want it external, independent.

We do not want it in-house. Well, I do hope that as this moves through the process, you'll come back and give us updates. I think the audience of the Ben Mulroney Show would be very curious to know what's happening with a state broadcaster who, not for nothing, is probably going to be defending itself and what seems like egregious behavior with taxpayer dollars. So I think it's incumbent upon us to get that information for our listeners. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, Catherine.

Good luck. And I want to hear from you. Give us a call to Ben Mulroney Show. Have we swapped cancel culture for bully culture? Let's dig in next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and we want to hear from you. Give us a call here at the show. We were just talking with former CBC reporter Travis Dan Raj's lawyer, Catherine Marshall.

They have sued the CBC for human rights violations. She just laid out the case as they see it. Of course, we'll be following this very, very close. for a lot of reasons, and not the least of which is the CBC that purports to be our national broadcaster that consistently, if not quietly suggests that without the CBC we somehow lose some important aspect of who we are. I think it's incumbent upon us to then hold them to account. If you view yourself as more than just a news organization, more than just a vehicle for people to get information

that you are somehow linked entirely to the DNA of what makes us Canadian, then we have to, I think, I think it's incumbent upon us to hold you to a higher standard than we do to all of our other news organizations that should be held to the highest standard. And so let's talk to Frank.

He's joining us now on the line. Frank, thanks so much for calling into the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning to you, Ben. We're obviously trying to destroy this guy whatever way they can do possible. Obviously, they didn't have any grounds for just termination. So that's probably one of the main reasons why they're claiming the CBC that has not been terminated. What I think they're also trying to do is to get him back in the work environment

so then they can concoct claims or grounds for just dismissal. You know, if he's successful with that human rights tribunal complaint, he can likely seek if he's going to pursue it, re-statement in the previous position before he was demoted. And I don't know if he's going to be doing that, but if he's successful with the Human Rights Tribunal complaint, he could use that as a basis of part of a constructive missile claim to go after them for punitive damages. So I like the way his lawyer is playing it. And he played a great move by not accepting the offer's counter-proposal there about come back to work. Well, I always find it so ironic that news organizations, and I know it's the way the system works, but it's an irony of the system, that these organizations that claim to be about, you know, that the best antidote to a problem is more information, you know, sunlight is the best disinfectant, if you will.

And for them to have wanted him to sign an NDA is to me anathema to the very essence of a news organization. But I'm not, you know, I get it. It's the system. and I thank you very much for your call. Look, yesterday in the car, it occurred to me, and I talked to my producer about this, that it feels to me that we've swapped one toxic culture for another. We went from cancel culture that prevents,

that doesn't want anybody to learn from any mistakes or ascribes mistakes and then forces you to atone for mistakes you didn't make. And not atone. They want you off, they want you out forever. You know, I think specifically of a guy like, what's his name there's a comedian who did some really awful stuff and he was he lost all of his deals and he eventually got his he eventually built something else he built his career back on another path and that was that was proof that um that you know white men control everything

and i was like or it's proof that people are empathetic and understand that people can learn from their mistakes another one was aziz unsari who did the same thing and um And, you know, but I think we've swapped cancel culture for this outrageous bully culture that we're now living in where you, if you can't cancel someone, you're just going to make their life hell. Let's talk to Rob. Rob, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben. How are you? I'm well.

Love the show. Love your approach. Anyway, yeah, I'm experiencing this very much so because the recent passing of Charlie Kirk. How so? And I, you know, I was devastated and by it. And never, I wasn't sort of, I was always sort of in the middle. Like I agree with some of the stuff he said, not some of the stuff he said. And had people over for dinner that night that he was killed and they were making fun of it.

And really upset me in my home. Wow. And went online and just, you know, posted this very neutrally, very, very, you know, like without too much emotion. But just that I was seeing it online as well. and now losing friends and some family. And to be honest, I'm fine with that. It's sad, but just, it's just unbelievable. You know, that people could laugh and make fun of someone

who was publicly slaughtered in front of his family in the public. And it's just unbelievable. And I said, Rob, just stick with me for a second. What I said at the end of the last hour, which I'll repeat now, is there are awful people on both sides of any debate. And listen, just for argument's sake, let's say there's the same number or the same percentage of bad, ugly, awful people on either side, right? Let's just for argument's sake, the difference that I am witnessing from my vantage point is, as my friend Elika Labon, who's a wonderful advocate for women's rights in Iran, came out and pointed out, she said the difference is we have created a permission structure for people to behave so terribly on the left that does not exist on the right. We have allowed people to co-opt language and scream the worst things at people and act violently.

on the left that does not exist for that same behavior on the right. And honestly, I have yet to see an example where that statement is wrong. What do you think? I agree 100%. I've always been someone in the middle, even with voting, one of the reasons why I respect your show, because it's a similar viewpoint you have. And to see how it's become so unbalanced, it's just something I never thought, I'm 60 years old, never thought of my lifetime, I would see that.

that people can actually say it's okay for someone to be killed like that. Yeah, I just, I just, it's sort of, it's gutting. It's almost as gutting as, is Charlie Kirk being killed. Well, thank you very, yeah, Rob, I want to thank you for the call. I mean, thank you very much. You know, whether people like it or not, I take the CBC's vote tracker, test every time there's an election. And whether you like it or not, according to the CBC, I'm a centrist. You may hate that.

You may think that, uh, that I'm a right-wing extremist. because I think that we should re-evaluate how we're bringing people into the country and by which metric we decide who belongs here or not. You can say that if you want. The CBC says I'm a centrist, and so you have to deal with it. Let's welcome John to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you for calling. How are you, Ben?

I'm well, thank you. What say you this morning? Well, it's just, we're surprising that last call that was saying that he said. It's just, Ben, this was going to happen. or later. That's what the world's hadn't to. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe this is a message to Donald Trump will come in against you.

Whoa. The world's... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on that. I want to give you a chance to clarify that. What do you mean? Because that doesn't sit right with me. Clarify that last thing about Donald Trump. Maybe that's a message to Donald Trump were coming to get you because he got

one of his buddies. Ben, do you think of that? I'm unclear as to why you're bringing Donald Trump. Trump into it? Like, what, are you saying that, are you warning that the left is behaving terribly? Or are you saying they're getting their act together and he should be careful with what he says moving forward? Because one is, one is, uh, one is thoughtful and the other is a threat. I think it's just what Donald Trump's, he's, he's creating. You think Donald, you think Donald Trump, listen, Donald Trump is, I agree Donald Trump is, says some, says some stuff. He calls people

fascist. He throws names around. This didn't start with Donald Trump. This isn't, this isn't start with him. You don't think every problem we have today started with Donald Trump. You're giving the guy way too much credit. It doesn't. No, I'm not saying that. I'm the same Ben. When that assassinations Donald Trump, that was all the setup. If people think that was real, you guys are fools. Oh, okay. Well, all right. Well, okay. Well, I, you know, I don't think you're right, but I give you the, I respect your right to say it. I thank you very much for calling, John. All right, let's reset with Ben. Ben, welcome to the show. Hi, Ben. This is, yeah. I don't have a lot of time. So tell me what your thoughts are in about 30 seconds, my friend. Really interesting that the streets aren't on fire

in the States right now because of someone was killed because of a left-wing viewpoint. Yeah. Right. The streets aren't on fire. Thoughts aren't being fat on. Buildings aren't being burnt down. And it's just, it's like after this good man's been killed, he just keeps on the sweep still. And, you know, the right are just still like, hey, let's stand up for truth. Let's stand up for what we believe. Let's do it. Yeah, no, and I agree. And thank you very much.

We're going to end on that point. And he's right. Like, there were a lot of people who, you know, someone on the left killed someone on the right and a lot of people online are like, now the right is going to take advantage and they're going to burn everything down. And none of that happened. None of it happened. And I'm going to, I'm going to

wait for those people who predict that to say they were wrong. I suspect they won't. Up next, what Canadian anti-immigration rallies could look like in a few years. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's be honest. We've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And, hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, It makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about.

They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs. Most people get it right the first time. But if it's not a match, you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost.

Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulruni. That's BetterHELP.com slash Mulruni. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 26 XE90 plug-in hybrid

from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Condition supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. To our national audience, I want to highlight that in Toronto over the weekend, there was a small gathering of pro, let's call it pro-Canada supporters of a return to logical immigration policy.

They take issue with what they think are 10 years of unchecked immigration that have led to so many. negative outcomes for this country. And they showed up at the park with Canadian flags and their masks, no masks on wanting Canada to be restored to what it was when we had rational immigration. They were met with the full force of counter protesters who were in their words and in their deeds and in their tone, vile and violent. And so that's why it's made larger news. We had the organizer on the show a little bit earlier, who was dismayed at the small size, but I think the impact has been national. I'm sure you'll be reading about it over the course of the next few days.

However, in my humble estimation, if you want to see what's in store for Canada down the road if we do not address this very real issue, look to the UK. There's a man by the name of Tommy Robinson, who planned and organized the Unite the Kingdom March in London. Now, for context, Tommy Robinson is not necessarily a knight in shining armor. He's well known for his anti-Islam and anti-immigration rhetoric. He founded the English Defense League in 2009. He has a history of legal troubles, multiple convictions, including for assault, for contempt of court, for fraud. He often frames his activism in terms of free speech or defending British culture, claims to be suppressed by the mainstream media.

But he's out there. People know who he is. is I've seen some clips of his. The clips I've seen, they don't scare me, but I'm not steeped in the knowledge of Tommy Robinson. I want to give that to you. That being said, he is a leader there. He's got followers. How many followers, in fact? Well, he drew about 110,000 people. And he turned an unruly, 110,000 people. Go find it online. It is a march, the likes of which you don't often see. And it's at least 100,000 people. There's a lot of discussion about the true numbers.

If you look at that, it certainly doesn't look like that. Some people are saying it's a million. It's people as far as the eye can see. Camera doesn't go far enough to see how many people are there. And the counter protesters were around 5,000 anti-fascist counter-protesters. And I love that we just accepted this is anti-fascist, like, you know, Antifa. We've just accepted that they've, They've co-opted a word and they attack anyone they disagree with.

Now, is Tommy Robinson a fascist? I have no idea. Is everybody there a fascist? Absolutely not. But we've just allowed them to call themselves that. And because of that, they have a self-righteous motivation where they believe that anyone they're going up against is a fascist. And the scale and the symbolism of it, let's talk.

The march stretched for nearly a kilometer. Robinson supporters waived Union Jackson, St. George's crosses, saying we want our country back. Now, they've got other problems there that we haven't had here. They have the grooming gangs that we've seen. They have, you know, girls have literally been abducted in small towns across the UK. And look, you got to call it what is. It's white British girls have been abducted by gangs of new immigrants from all, from multiple points. And they've been repeatedly raped. And for the longest time, nobody was doing anything about it. And as a matter of fact, it's still not being given the attention it deserves. So they've got

a lot of stuff going on there that we don't have here. But make no mistake, when you take the pendulum and you hold it as far to the left as you can and you let it go, it does not stop in the middle. It flies as far as it can to the right. There will be a coming reaction to this, to where we are today and the people on the left will not like it and they're going to and and they're not going to take responsibility for creating the conditions for somebody like Nigel Farage 10 years ago he was a fringe guy he now is in a position that we're the election in the UK to be held today his reform party would form a majority that doesn't happen in a vacuum that happens under conditions that are created by whoever was in power before.

And now we are hearing, Mike, that in this next parliament in Canada, if we can bring it home, there's a number of bills that are going to come forth about protecting our borders and changing, really moderating immigration and giving power to cut off certain people who've been waiting in line for a long time. I mean, there are good steps that could be in the offing. but of course the devil's in the details. Yeah, well, I mean, we do know that we had an immigration system 15 years ago that was the envy of the G7 because it was, it was fair.

There was a point system. Yeah. You had to have all these different things. You had to be able to speak one of the two official languages, certain amount of money, certain amount of skills. You couldn't just come here and say, I'm here. Yeah. And this is changed.

This is the thing that I find irritating and frustrating today because I'm my living having conversations. And I'm finding there is a dumbing down, a deliberate dumbing down of conversation in this public discourse in this country where for me to say all the things that I very clearly say on this show about the immigration system, there are people who dumb it down to your anti-immigration. And so I think there is a deliberate co-opting and changing of the language that has been done deliberately, but there's also a self-righteous notion that you are not allowing me to have

the opinion that my problem is not immigration and never has been. My problem has been with a poor immigration policy. It was fine before and somebody mucked it up and to dumb it down to I don't like immigrants is BS. It is nonsense. It is a lie. And to suggest it, is either you're too dumb for me to engage in conversation with you or you are too bad faith to give you space to have a conversation because it is you who are the gaslighter. It is you who are not acting in good faith. It is you who don't want us to get to a better place. I don't know why, but I keep going back to maybe you want this.

Maybe you're looking to weaken this country for some reason. Maybe you want to make our cities break. And it is too simplistic just to say you don't like immigration. No, no, no, it's a bigger issue. It's, okay, what is the situation right now with health care? Yeah. What's the situation with education? Our schools are, our hospitals are packed.

Our schools don't have space. We don't have enough housing. If you invite people to dinner, make sure you have enough place settings. Yeah. This country, we didn't do that. And now we're having serious problems. Our GDP is just horrific. we need to be able to solve some problems.

Yeah, well, speaking of solving the problems, and here's where you're going to hear me say, maybe Mark Carney gets it. Like Bill C2, the powers in the Ottawa's Strong Borders Act would let immigration officials cancel, suspend, or vary immigration applications and documents en masse in the names of public interest, giving them broad discretionary powers.

Now, there's a backlog crisis that we've talked about and chronicled on this show. This is a huge number. Canada has over 2.2 million applications pending with nearly half exceeding processing timelines. So Bill C2 aims to slash delays, similar to how 2012 law eliminated older skilled worker applications. Now, this is an interesting one as well.

Experts warn humanitarian and low economic benefit programs, such as the startup visa, self-employed person program, private refugee sponsorships are likely to face cancellation. I don't have a problem with that. If I could cut in, we talked about that last week with the various programs that they have, which people aren't even aware of. You hadn't even heard of some of these.

And there's some of them where you, you actually don't even have to get a permit to be able to bring people in. And there is millions of people who are in Canada under those permits. So I will say it, and I want to be clear, if the liberal government, it makes, if Bill C2 passes and they actually take it seriously, if they take this problem seriously, I think the temperature will come down in this country significantly. It will show us that the people in power recognize that the way we've been doing it for years was wrong and we have to reverse course immediately and take drastic. measures. And the fact that it would be a liberal government doing it, not a radical right-wing conservative party, I think will be more palatable to people. I'm fine with that. So honestly, I hope to God that Mark Carney does this, that will show true leadership. And I support him

in doing that. Take a wait and see approach. And we will follow that as it evolves. Pizza lovers, this one's for you. Little Caesars is celebrating customer appreciation day with $5 medium hot and ready classic pizzas. For one day only on Wednesday, September 17th, all day long. It's their annual customer appreciation day and their way of saying thank you for supporting locally owned and operated Little Caesars. Join them for $5 hot and ready classic medium pepper macaroni or cheese pizzas. Hot and ready.