The Ben Mulroney Show - The Friday Political Panel -- has Carney made a shrewd deal in lieu of bailouts?

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Guest: Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy Guest: Warren Kinsella, Former Special Advisor to Jean Chretien and CEO of the Daisy Group     If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty, it's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed.

You're allowed to say, I'm not okay right now. And trust me, I have been there. Whether it's the state of the world stress at home, or just feeling like you've got to have it all together and have all the answers, you don't have to hold it in. Better help is here to help with the world's largest network of licensed therapists. They've already supported over 5 million people, you can connect with a therapist online from wherever you are, no waitlist, no office visits. And if it's not the right fit you can switch anytime it's time to put your mental health on the agenda talk it out with better help visit better help comm slash Mulrooney today to get 10% off your first month that's better help HELP comm slash Mulrooney

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and it is Friday, which means we take stock of the big political stories of the week and couldn't ask for two better partners to do this with. We've got Chris Chapin, political commentator, as well as managing principal at Upstream Strategy and Warren Kinsella, former special advisor to Jean Chrétien and the CEO of the Daisy Group. Happy Friday, guys. Happy Friday, Ben. Happy Friday.

All right, so let's start with the big court case. We've been waiting on pins and needles for the decision by the judge in the sexual assault trial for the Hockey Canada players. And quickly, as the judge was rendering her decision, it was pretty clear that she was gonna come out in favor of not guilty. And I'm of the opinion that this,

nobody was gonna be happy with this result, but it was a predictable result. It was an expected result. And it also, if you harken back to Gion Gomezi so many years ago, doesn't feel like a whole lot has changed. Warren, what are your thoughts? I agree with you. And like, you know, I wasn't in the courtroom, my rule of thumb is always be careful about commenting. If you haven't been there to hear and see all the evidence. But you

know, there is fallout that we can comment on. You know, for the players, I don't think it's going to be any of these guys are going to be heading into the NHL anytime soon. They've all taken a reputational hit, whether they've been exonerated or not. You know, and they're seen as kind of creepy because there was five guys in a room with one woman. With for women, and I've talked to a few this morning, what I've gotten is I'm not surprised. This is what always happens. This is why we have no confidence in the justice system and, you know, fewer women are going to come forward. Whether those things are true or not, that is the reality we've got this morning and you know,

professional sports taking yet another hit. So, are true or not, that is the reality we've got this morning. And you know, professional sports taking yet another hit. So I don't think a lot of people I don't think anybody's happy all around the players included, who got that not guilty verdict. Chris, this is yet another black eye for, for hockey Canada. And there are there are calls to take that thing down to the studs, change the name, change the logo and start fresh because there is, I mean, if what we're hearing is that there was a slush fund to pay off, you know, those who would make allegations, it's almost like the, the stories that we heard about the Catholic Church. And, and I got to wonder what you think. And, and I got to wonder what you think. Yeah, I think that's, you know, I think if there is one black spot in this whole case, then it is hockey Canada because, you know, at the end of the day, yesterday, our justice

system acquitted these five, these five men and said that, you know, what they were accused of wasn't didn't in fact happen, you know, the sexual assault didn't happen. And I think the fact that hockey Canada triedockey Canada tried to throw it under the rug and pay this woman off with, you know, and tried to make sure that this never saw the light of day is a black spot on Hockey Canada and something we should reflect on because our justice system said these guys weren't guilty. And I mean, I thought Warren made a great point about, you know, if you weren't in the courtroom, you'd be very careful commenting because, you know, I tried to follow this

case fairly intently because I thought it was, you know, fascinating one. But it was very interesting. I think probably the most reporting we saw the entire case yesterday was of the justice's verdict, almost word for word. And there were things that came out in her verdict and her review of her findings that I hadn't seen reported through the news because, you know, whoever was covering the court case that day just didn't think that was relevant for public consumption. And so I thought that was something also that was fascinating is, you know, there were clearly things that were said that were

obviously not reported publicly. And I think people jumped to conclusions about, you know, the guilt of these five guys far too quickly. All right, let's move on to the state of play with our steel industry. It's being battered by Donald Trump and his false allegations that for some reason, it is a national security risk to let Canadian steel into the United States without tariffing it, whatever. That being said, Algoma Steel is looking for up to $600 million in loans, effectively a bailout.

And the biggest shareholder is saying that the Canadian government is acting like a loan shark in terms of how it's talking about these negotiations. Warren, is this an indication that Mark Carney is actually a different kind of liberal and he's actually paying attention to the money that's going out as opposed to just spending it like a drunken sailor? Well, I guess we're going to find out. I mean, you know, we do have a history in this country, you know, during the global economic crisis, GM and Chrysler and the banks got bailed out, you know, in the nineties, Air Canada got bailed out, like in the Irvings. I mean, Bombardier was practically a government department. It got bailed out so often. So, you know, it's not unreasonable for, you know,

the head of this company to do what he's doing, which is say, stick his hand out and say, hey, you know, we need some help here. There's no question he's been hammered because of Trump, as you point out. There's no question that he is hurting along with other sectors like auto because of tariffs. The question we have to ask is, you know, do we bail out these big organizations when they get in

trouble? You know, in the past, we have even the Ottawa senators seeking a bailout from Ottawa. When my guy, Kretzian, was prime minister and he said no. But there have been other instances where we've said yes. And I think those this guy and his lobbyists are going to rely on that argument and say, Well, look, you bailed out them. Right? Why don't you bail out me? I didn't do this. Yeah, Donald Trump did it to me. Help me out. Yeah, Chris, if we're not careful, if our government in Ottawa is not careful, yeah, we could be on the hook for the entire automotive industry again. in Ottawa is not careful. Yeah, we could be on the hook for the entire automotive industry again. Yeah, I and I, I'm always hesitant to give the feds credit on things. But I think, you know, this is probably the right position to be in. If you're Mark Carney, and the liberals is,

I think it's too soon to start, you know, handing out cash to industries that are in trouble. Because I mean, ideally, you find yourself in a position where we reach a deal sooner rather than later. Because as you guys both know, you know, you give one, one company, give one industry a bailout or, you know, a favorable loan, every other industry, I'm a lobbyist, every other industry is going to come calling and say, you know, we'd like money too. And at this point, the uncertainty is so high that who wouldn't say that they need help right now? I think every industry across this country is, you know, sitting there scratching their heads. So I mean, I suppose kudos to Carney and the federal government for holding tight right now. And that if there were loan terms on the table for Algoma, that they were rather rigid, because I mean, you know, at the end of the, they should be. I mean, I remember being in Ottawa during the auto bailout. And I mean, I was of the opinion then that we, you know, it was, we had to do it. But I thought the terms were far too favorable to GM and Ford. I only have a little bit of time left, so I'm going to give each one of you about 40 seconds

to comment on what feels like an about face by the federal liberals who campaigned against Pierre Poliev, who is going to cut the civil service. And now it looks like at least 55 to 60,000 people are going to be on the outside looking in of the civil service. Warren, give me your sense. Well, I mean, you know, I went through this with Prime Minister Kretschian, like his, that first budget in the 94-95 period did have massive cuts to the public service. Now Kretschian was reelected with a majority, but he was narrow. And there was this jerk running in North Vancouver for Warren Kinsella, who probably lost his

shot at a seat because of it. So like there's a risk. What's interesting here, there's a real Nixon goes to China thing. Yeah. You know, Paul Yev said the same thing during the election. He said, we're going to have to trim back the public service. And he has an Ottawa or had an Ottawa area of riding. And it looked like that's one of the things he got punished for.

The guy in the neighboring riding is a guy named Mark Carney, and he hasn't been punished for it. So maybe liberals can get away with this and Tories can, you know, Tories are seen as meaner about it. But generally, you know, when Harper was there, when your dad was there, there weren't huge cuts in the public service, but they still get tagged with this impression that they might. Chris, last 30 seconds to you. Yeah, I think, you know, more makes a good point. There's a difference of, you know, you shouldn't be surprised if you say it publicly. You know, if you say you're going to fire people, they might respond that way. It happened here back in 2014 with Tim Hudak in Ontario, you know, you go out and say you're going to cut 100,000 jobs. You shouldn't be surprised when the people that you're whose jobs you're cutting

Yeah, respond accordingly. All right, we're gonna take a break. When we come back, France is set to recognize Palestine as a state. There are a lot of people lining up to suggest that Canada should follow suit. So we're gonna dig into that next. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. So we're going to dig into that next. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show.

In the seventies, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer, and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad free on Amazon Music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to this week in politics, the Friday edition,

and welcome back to Chris Chapin and Warren Kinsella. Warren, let's start with you. What do you make of Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, doing something kind of out there and declaring, recognizing a Palestinian state right now with everything we know about the leadership of palace, the Palestinian people and of Gaza. Explain this to me in a way that makes sense to the listeners. I can't you know, I think it's terrible. I think it's horrible. I think it's stupid.

You know, for this for one simple reason, the government of Gaza is Hamas, a designated terrorist entity. In this country, in Canada, Hamas has been a designated terrorist entity since 2002. How can you declare a state, a government run by a terror group to be someone you recognize with whom you have diplomatic relations with which you do trade. Like it's bananas. And I think that, you know, France has backed itself into a big problem.

Is it, Chris, look, I don't wanna be cynical here. I'd like to believe the best. I'd like to believe people's motivations are pure. Is this a numbers game? I mean, is it as simple as there are more people in France, who would be supportive of this idea, then there are Jews? Yes. Yeah, point blank. And it's that's all it is, I think, at this point. And unfortunately, we've seen that creep into our

politics here in Canada. It's, I think most people believe the right thing to do is to stand with Israel on the attack they faced and trying to free themselves from, as Warren pointed out, this terrorist organization that continues to attack them. But it comes down to a numbers game. And there's more people that are vocally supportive, it seems here in Canada, than there are that are vocally supportive of the Jewish state of Israel.

And I think that's clearly what's happened in France. And so it comes down to politics. And Macron has made a decision that he thinks it's more beneficial for him to take a stand and call Palestine a state, then I think do the right thing. And unfortunately, politics will be politics. But Warren, like let's live in a world where words have meaning. And if France recognizes the Palestinian state,

what are some immediate changes to the relations between Gaza and France? And what would those changes be if you know, I just saw Nate Erskine Smith's tweet where he said we should follow suit, what would change in Canada, if the government said no, yes, we recognize the Palestinian state? Okay, then you know, Mr. Macron, where are you going to set up your embassy in Gaza and who's going to protect it? It's a war zone and like the same thing applies to Canada like the Prime Minister yesterday issued a tweet I'll read part of it Canada condemns the Israeli government's failure to prevent the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian disaster in Gaza this denial of humanitarian aid is a violation of international law the International law those are strong words. So basically what he's doing, Carney is yesterday accused Israel of a crime

in international law. And so I actually, I'm writing a column about this for this weekend for Post Media. And I've written to PMO and I've written to Global Affairs. And I said, okay, so we don't have any diplomatic presence on the ground in Gaza. We haven't, so we don't have any diplomatic presence on the ground in Gaza. We haven't ever. We don't have any military there.

We don't have any firsthand accounts. Where are you guys getting your information from? Yeah. How do you know that they're violating international law? As far as I know, this GHF organization's got a thousand trucks idling in Gaza with food and aid and supplies on it that the United Nations refuses to distribute. So like a little bit confused. Yeah, didn't the IDF take a bunch of journalists on a tour showing them the thousands of pallets

of food that were just sitting there that they, that it is not, I don't know what they showed them, but they essentially showed them there is food. It's not if it's not getting to people. It's because it's not because the IDF. No, and there's 1000 trucks over 1000 trucks right now as we speak, sitting at four distribution centers in Gaza with food and aid on them. And the United Nations refuses to distribute it. Chris, yeah, Chris, it's Yeah, Chris, it's weird.

Like we've got people chanting for ceasefire now, living devoid of the fact that the last two ceasefires were turned down by Hamas. In a world where we can't agree on the reality in front of us, I don't know that we should be making decisions on recognizing statehood. No, we shouldn't, but you know,

that's how we started this conversation, Ben. This is all about politics. This isn't about right or wrong. This isn't about future planning on what that region looks like in the Middle East moving forward. It's temporary politics. It's people shouting, cease fire now, but they don't have a clue what that means.

But nobody that's protesting this understands what statehood means for Palestine. They believe they need it. They don't understand that Hamas is withholding food from those Palestinians you know, those Palestinians, the innocent Palestinians in Gaza, who are suffering because they don't care. It's become you know, it is literally a world away from us. And yet we pretend we

understand what's going on there. Warren, I want to spend some time at the end here talking about, I mean, I this Christian musician who I had never heard of and whose music I will never hear, who is coming on a, I guess, a little tour of Canada. And it was going on a six city tour and he had to, all of his venues were canceled, I guess because people took issue

with his religious perspective, his politics, his association with the MAGA movement. I would like this same sort of passion associated with those Jew haters that we saw in Glastonbury, but I guess we're reserving that exclusively for sort of the religious right in the United States. Yeah, well, as you guys can see, anybody who's watching us

online watching us visually can see what my taste of music is behind me. It's punk rock and reggae. So that's the only people I believe should be allowed into the country. But I was like, you I never heard of this guy before. And it's like, well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're not letting this guy play, you can't let kneecap and Bob Dylan play either. We'll see how that plays out. Yeah. And that's and but to be fair, I don't think this guy was

I don't think he didn't get a visa. I think it's just that these the venues, government sites, the government sites. But but that's like, I don't know, Chris, like we are so precious. We've got to we've got to weigh our. When it's one side of the equation. And then when it's, when it's, you know, a target we view as easy, then it's a knee jerk reaction. And we pull out a bazooka to deal with the guy. Yeah, that's exactly that. I, I, unfortunately, like I do believe that it typically leans, you know, right wing when we seem to cancel these folks. I never see conservatives up in arms about, heck, it seems like half of

Hollywood's left leaning and nobody complains when people perform shows. So I have no idea who this guy is. I've never going to listen to his music. I wouldn't have known if he had a concert or not, but I think it's a, I think it's a huge mistake and especially because it's a government site, I, I have probably a different view, frankly, if it was a private venue that we have, we want nothing to do with this guy, go find somewhere else. That's, you know, that's that private business owners decision. But by, from what I've read about this story, they had a permit from a parks Canada site and parks Canada

made this decision themselves to withhold and withdraw the permit so that this guy can put you know perform a concert. I think that's ridiculous. Yeah, but I think this happened so quickly. I would like the same as Warren said, I would like this same immediacy to be present when it comes to the Bob villains and the kneecaps of the world. I mean, the the Americans moved with moral clarity on that. And we seem to be, we seem to be speaking out of both sides of our mouth all the time. Oh, it's shameful behavior, but we're not going to

do the requisite things to demonstrate that we believe it's shameful behavior. Anyway, guys, we're gonna have to leave it there. But I want to thank you both very much for joining me. I hope you had a great week. And I hope that we will see each other next week Yeah, this this this story is because When decisions like this are made I then go to I go to social media and of course There are those who just parrot back what they see here and and they will they will double down and they'll say no of course this guy shouldn't be allowed to to come into Canada because he's peddling religious fanaticism okay sure you don't like that but then when I when they're asked about bob villain

they they say oh no no that's uh that's that's free speech all right don't go anywhere much more to come on the Ben Moller News Show. I'm Jordan Bonaparte, and this is your invitation to join me for an exploration of Canadian crime, mysteries, and the just plain weird on the Nighttime Podcast. Over the years, we've dove deep into many of Canada's most unique cases. From the haunting disappearance of Jack and Lily Sullivan in Nova Scotia, to the bizarre mystery of the unexplained death at a Halifax Walmart. Walmart says a large bakery oven will be removed. And of course, we provide a weekly roundup

of Canada's weird news stories. Psychic said he could make the woman fall madly in love with him. The girl loves you more. It's like that. If you give $12,000. Yeah. Through interviews with those closest to the case,

to deep dive investigations and listener voices, we shine a light where few others take the time to look. So if you're interested in Canadian crime, mysteries, and the weird, get caught up on everything you missed by subscribing to Nighttime right now, wherever you get podcasts.