The Ben Mulroney Show - The illusionist/magician Sam Strange twists Ben into a mind pretzel

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

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accelerating your dreams. Chat with your advisor or visit fidelity.ca slash performance to learn more. Commissions fees and expenses may apply. Read the funds or ETF's prospectus before investing. Funds and ETFs are not guaranteed. Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. You're listening to the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on this Monday, the 8th of December 2025. I want to thank you for joining us. And gosh, I've been doing this. I've been in media a long time.

So much so that when I heard my next guest was joining me, I thought, I think I've talked to this guy before. And then I went back and said, yeah, I think it was about seven years ago when I was doing a morning show on another network. And so please welcome to the show, Sam Strange, of Young and Strange. She's a phenomenal. What do you guys call yourself? Well, we're illusionists, really. Allusions. Grand scale illusionists would be the pretentious titles to use.

But we're in a touring theatre show called Champions of Magic. We came to Toronto first in 2018, which is probably when we did meet. We did a run of shows in a theatre. And then we, in 2023, we went to the Meridian Hall where we did seven shows, three and a half thousand seats. And then this time we're back again in 2025 to do a show in a 900 seat venue called the St. Lawrence Performing Arts Centre, the Bloom Rappell Theatre. Which is perfect for the show because it's got the stage space and, the facilities to accommodate the production, the scale of the show. But it's a really intimate performing space.

It's the dream venue for this show. One of my favorite lines ever about illusionists was in the premiere episode of Arrested Development, when Job, who is a magician, is in front of some kids, and they're on a boat. And he overhears someone referring to him as what he does is magic tricks. and he looks at his brother, he goes, illusions, Michael. He says, tricks are what whores do for money. And then he looks and realizes he's in front of kids, he goes, or candy. And so I always assume that there's a difference.

There's an in joke that if you say you're an illusionist as opposed to a magician or a trickster, is that you can charge more money, which I can't verify to be true, I'm afraid. So how have the last seven years been for you? Good, actually. So we're in this touring North American show, and it goes all over North America, the USA and then Canada.

And the Canadians' audiences are amazing. Honestly, you're incredible. I mean, I'm British, as maybe you can tell from my Pacey complexion or the accent, that the British audiences are a bit more cynical. They're a bit more sort of arms folded. You know, they don't want the intellectual, they don't want to be defeated in an intellectual challenge. The Canadians and the Americans, they tend to embrace the spectacle and the entertainment thing that it is. I don't know quite why that is. Maybe it's your sports games or you wear your heart on your sleeve more. Well, see, I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for my. myself. And I approach any time, anytime I'm with somebody who's good at sleight of hand or up close magic or illusions, I assume they are going to break my brain. And it happens every time. Every time I'll get right up close to the cards when the guys... Because you'll be pleased to know that generally, intelligent people are easier to deceive. And I think there's a

good... Wait, hold on. Intelligent people are easier to deceive. Let me break that down for you. Because what happens is if you are playing the polite social rules of human engagement, Let's talk about a close-up magician as an example. He's using what he's saying, the body language to misdirect you and make you look in other places. It's the people who don't care. It's the people who aren't engaged in what you're doing are therefore not sucked into the misdirection of the whole thing. Well, it's okay. But talk to me about, what were you going to do before discovering this appreciation of the illusion arts or the mad?

Well, I mean, that's a difficult one. We do have these hypothetical conversations on tour bus. But you go, I got into magic when I was a kid. So, and actually, almost instantly, I knew that I wanted to be a magician. Sure. So I haven't gone. Yes, but there's that. And then there's coming face to face with your parents and saying, all right, I know that you had designs for me to be a lawyer or a doctor and a count.

And now you want to do card tricks. How do you convince them that this is a solid sound plan for the future? Well, that's a great question. I mean, magic is this self-fulfilling thing. When you start doing magic and you get that affirmation here and the insecure. teenage years, you know, when you're trying to find your own identity. And then what people do is when they watch magic, they make a mistake. They say, you're amazing, you're incredible, as the magician, you're brilliant. What they actually mean is the trick that you performed is

excellent. But of course, that's a really good boost to the ego and the greatest catalyst for wanting to continue to learn more. And then you get this reputation as the magic guy that will turn up to parties and do a few tricks. And don't worry, the magician's here, he'll do a few things. And then before you know, you're performing at corporate events, weddings, funerals, that sort of thing. Well, from funerals! Well, I said that as a flipping joke, but I performed at three funerals in my time, yeah. Have you really? Yeah.

The two of them were fantastic. They were really good celebrations of life. Yeah. If you can view it through the lens of it's a celebration of life, it's brilliant. But one of them was complete misbooking. It was a tragedy, a guy who died at 32. And for some reason, people thought that it would be a nice thing to have a magician because the guy used to do a bit of magic.

It was an awful, awful idea, because no one really knew he used to do magic. And because it was a tragedy, he died in a car, actually was 32. Oh, no. It was just a period of. morning and I'm having to go to groups introduce myself. It wasn't good. But also, I mean, the idea, because you and your friend came together and you found this love together. Yes. And built this. Between this, my business partner, Richard Young, and we've developed this long act together. We've been together for many,

many years, grew up learning magic together. And we always had an underlying passion of the largest scale Las Vegas illusionist, like Zieg Fried and Roy, if you remember then, the David Copperfield era. And it's a, it's an art form in my mind. magic, which is kind of dying off a bit, because the reason is the barrier to entry is quite high. In order to be an illusionist, you need a little bit of capital to get going in the first place, but you need to be an illusionist, you need, you're basically 20% magician and then 80% furniture removal man. Because you're lugging these props around to spaces. In the UK, we'd have a little village hall, you'd rehearse it in, and then you'd load it in the van.

And that's not as accessible as doing a card trick. Well, I saw David Copperfield. I was in the front row. I can't remember where I was because I don't think he was in Las Vegas for it. I think he took his show on the road and so I saw him on the road and I was in the front row

and his big illusion at the time was he was flying. Amazing. And I have no, I mean, I literally stood there and I was told I could get up to look around. There were no wires

and he went through a hoop and all this stuff and the only thing I can think is like high powered magnet right. And I have to. You're right. Yeah, so, and you're right.

And I did see that massive trucks massive trucks that were coming in and out like there's a lot of that's amazing that you remember that and that is one of his most iconic and famous in fact it's the most probably most famous piece of magic of all time really because the human desire to fly to be able to perform that under test conditions

there's hoops that are passed around and he walks upside down in a clear perspex box with a lid and there's all these proofers he was wearing what looked like an ill-fitting sweater oh right that was the only so that there's something there had to have been something under the sweater that's all I know that's all I know

You're going to have to have you killed now. Well, you know what? But it brings up an interesting, because I guess about 20 years ago, it was on Fox, right? There was the masked magician. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Valvatino, yeah.

He was given away all the... Yeah, I mean, a lot of magicians were very annoyed about him, but actually, we learned a lot of new tricks from that ago. Ah! I mean, I'm jesting. But actually, there is some truth in that. That is that he was huge outrage.

The outrage, really, from our personal point of view, being illusionist, is that he was giving away secrets, which weren't his to disclose. Lots of these old illusion principles and stuff. They're built on people who have spent their lifetimes, musing and coming up with ideas, finding the nuance of it, building prototypes, and then ditching the prototype only to build another one. And the effort and time and passion that goes into it.

And then you end up with this fantastically brilliant stage illusion that is the intellectual property of that person. Yeah. Not to be monetized and to make quick fixes by being paid millions to do a TV show, of which Val Valentino was. And that's the same actually in social media now, is that it's good click-back. make fodder, the reveal of magic tricks. Yeah. But it's just a shame because it kind of makes magic look a bit silly, really. Just oh, it's only this little silly thing.

You're a bit stupid for falling for it. But actually, they're built on really good, clever ideas that they're not theirs to disclose. But that's only one part of it, right? There's an element of showmanship. There is an element of theatres. And that's what Copperfield does so well. It wasn't really about the magic about how does he do that? I mean, how does he do that?

That's a bit banal, isn't it? You know, how does the trick work? Huh. But you go, if you can give it a meaning and a passion and a motive and a reason, like any good art, then it can elevate it into something beyond just, oh, I don't know how that trick works, which, annoyingly, is the threshold for what most people consider to be a good magician. And then there's always, there's always that little kid standing there goes, I know how you did that.

Was that you? No, that was never, because I don't know how, that's my thing. I have no idea how anyone does it. But my best friend, Glenn, he's like, I know how they do this. that. But that's like an ego protection, isn't it? Because you've been shown something that you don't know how it works. It's a defense mechanism to go, I know how you do that. Well, I'm joined by Sam Strange. He's part of Young and Strange. They are going to be at the Bluma Appell Theater on December 27th and 28th, an all-new holiday edition. Also,

interestingly, a very special ASL interpreted performance is going to take place on December 27th at 5 p.m. We'll talk about all of that and more when we come back from the break. Don't go anywhere. My mind is going to explode with the illusions of Sam Strange next. This is the Ben Mulroney show and very pleased to be joined for a second segment with Sam Strange, part of Young and Strange 2, incredible illusionists in the Champions of Magic Holiday Spectacular. It's going to be taking place in Toronto for a limited run on December 27th and 28th at the

Bluma Appel Theater. And tickets are available. Kicketmaster.ca, very special ASL interpreted performance is going to take place on the 27th at 5 p.m. making the show accessible to the deaf and hard of hearing audiences. So congratulations on that, Sam. Oh, well, thank you very much. And also, I have to say this because the PR guy will kill me if I don't. But the run's been extended now. We've added lots more shows. Oh, wow. It's 27th into the new year now. So that's really good. That's fantastic. You know, in fact,

one of the shows, 27th, 28th, we're doing four shows each day. So there's eight shows in two days. which is a real pleasure because all of the cast members really love what we do. You got to like the person you're working with. When we do, you know,

and again, that's not a PR line. We do have a great relationship on stage and off stage. There are four cast members, Liberty Lars and Vlando Velasco, young and strange, and we all get on like a little family.

And that's really important because not only is it allow you to enjoy the things on stage, but it just, you know, you spend a lot of intense time together on the tour bus, in hotels and, you know.

All right, well, listen, I remember, so I remember broad strokes of when we met when I was doing the TV show and I'm pretty sure I walked off set because whatever you did frustrated the child and me and the adult in me as all aspects of me. Well, that's good. Yeah. And so, so we're going to do something a little bit. Oh, yeah. So do you want to do something. Yeah. Yes, we are. So we're going to get, so you asked us to to phone somebody and because it's a

radio station, I guess we can try to do that. We can try. So Dave, can you please try to call the other just not just yet. Not just yet. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. We're going to have you do a bit So I've got here a deck of cards. You're going to have to do your incredible job of communicating the list of what's happening here. So hold on, can I check and make sure it's a real deck of cards? Yeah, absolutely. In fact, what I'll do is I'll come around here

and I'll spread them on the face. Now, the critical thing is, Ben, is that every single card is different. It's not a repeated order. This is just a genuine definition. Can I touch some of these and just... Yeah, if you like it. All right, just want to make sure that there's...

Perfect. The skeptic, the non-believer. I mean, I don't know how I'm testing this. It just feels like a regular card. Perfect. And what we'll do is on I'm going to make sure they're all different. Every single card is different.

Yeah, yeah. So I will bring, so what we're going to do is you're going to essentially choose a card. So to do this, I'm going to set the deck right in front of you. Okay. Now, you're going to cut anywhere you want, any way you want, Ben. You can go deep, shallow, anywhere roughly in the middle. So cut the deck and then place the packet next to you. All right. Oh, my pressure.

Take that, no. I'm going to, no, I'll see it. Now, take that card, sit on that card. Okay. Can I show it to my, everyone on the audience? Well, no, no, actually, no, actually, no, don't. Don't. I don't want anyone to see it.

No, no, I want you to sit on that card. So I can't look at it. No, you can't look at it. All right. Okay. All right. Sitting on it. Okay.

Okay. Now, in a moment, listen, I don't know what card you've chosen. Yeah. Okay. You don't know what card you've chosen. No, correct, yeah. But unfortunately, I'm lucky enough to have a guy that does know what card you've chosen. There'll be no one in this world knows what card you're sitting on, but I do know someone who does.

Okay. So let me just tell you how this is going to go. We're going to call this person. they're going to get the card right and I'm going to leave the student because I and I'm sure

if I want to say I could go online and I could figure out how this happens I don't want to do that but instead here's what we're going to do so Dave can you please call

who are we calling by the way this is my business partner of Richard Young who's in America at the moment and I'm not sure if he's expecting our call but we'll give him a ring he normally does answer

who's always around at this time okay No, well, he does that. It's a UK number. Yeah, well, he does that. When you come to North America, and you order a full British breakfast, an English breakfast, you just ask for breakfast?

Yeah. You hear? Well, I like the breakfasts over here. What do you like? Yeah, what do you like? Well, you like the carbs, don't you? So the potatoes, the French toast or the thing. Yeah, eat enough of it.

You take a nap right. after breakfast is perfect. Oh, here we go. We got the call. So it's Richard? Yeah. Okay, okay. Let's see.

All right. Did you hear me? Yes, Richard. Hello, mate. Oh, yes. Richard. Hi, it's Ben Mulroney from the Ben Mulroney show. I got your buddy here.

Strange, I can't hear, strange, I think that's you. Listen, I've been having to think about our little tax problem. I've found a guy. He says, if we register our business in the Cayman Islands, will be legally invisible. That's what he said. So, I'm fixing this, right? a tiny, tiny little beach hut as our official international headquarters.

We won't ever have to pay tax again, strange, right? So that first accountant who said, you can't hide the profits forever, well, he looks like the right idiot now, don't you think? Now, also, if anyone finds out what happens, we just pivot the business into the scented candles business, and we've got that British contact in China that can do that. What's his name again, by the way? George Spencer, but listen, mate,

There's not time for this. I'm not sure if you know, but we're live on the radio with Bell Moroni, and this is not the time to be talking about a taxi situation. Basically, can I just bring you up to... We're on the radio?

Yeah, but can I bring you up to speed with what's happening here, mate? Because basically, we've had a card selected from a shuffled, random deck of playing cards. I don't know what card it is. Ben doesn't know what card it is. No one in the studio knows what card

or in the world, but I'm thinking the one person who I can rely on is my trusty double-act partner, Richard Young. So Richard Young, you don't happen to know what card it is that Ben is sitting on,

you? Well, I do have the skill of mental teleportation. So if I send my mind's eye right now into the studio and take a little look at the card that's been chosen, I think it is indeed the fore of space. Okay. Well, just so we're clear, I'm sitting on the card. So if your mental eye, if your mental eye went there, I mean, yes. Oh my goodness. Okay, so what did you say? What did you say it was? It's the four of spades, mate. Cheers, mate. Thanks for helping us out. I was got into a sticky problem there, and you've helped me out.

No worry. And if the candle business doesn't work out, there's these new cushions that people are going to be into next year. We'll get those. Pushing business. All right. Okay. All right.

Thanks for your time. Come on, man. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Yeah, later. Bye-bye. Come on. Like, come on.

What? Yeah, I'm going to keep, well, you can't use those. This is, the four of spades is, like, I can't leave clearly because I'm the only person here. I mean, Mike Droulet could take over, I suppose, but, ah. Thanks, man. It's a bit of fun, isn't it? Yeah, but. See, it's hard for me to let it go, and I kind of want to know why, but I don't want to know why.

Okay, let's move on. I want to go back and, ah, I want to know why. How? How? How? Yeah, no, but yeah. Do people ever guess how you do this? Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes that guess is not always correct.

And there's lots of different methods. It's hard now. I promise you, you could have done that trick, you know, a hundred years ago. But the problem is with lots of modern technology is, I guess the instant thing is to go, oh, there must be a secret camera that could have got a glimpse of the card or something. But it's a bit of a shame because it's a really sort of clever, well-thought. Okay, the only thing. No, because you didn't know.

Like, I was just saying, maybe you had told... I mean, it could just be luck. Have you considered that? I mean, this is the... No, you don't know. Now, see, I know that that's not what you do. That's not your stock and trade. It would be a high profile gamble, wouldn't you?

No, it, uh, there's no... There's no way. Enjoy the wonderment, then. I didn't look at it, right? I couldn't telegraph it. He couldn't have used coded language. I was watching, from this angle. Yeah, you clearly failed.

I told you, you were the gatekeeper. You were the eye. Who's watching the watcher? That's supposed to be you. That's true. Darn it. Yeah. Okay, well, I want to go back to something we were talking about during the break

because we were talking about strange, strange places that you've done your show. And you did your show from a prison in the United States. Yeah, it was really good. We were doing a run of shows in San Francisco. And the PR, believe it or not, actually, for that theater was also the PR for San Quinton Prison. I mean, there's a lesson, isn't it? I don't ever realize that a prison. prison has a PR department. But anyway, nevertheless, we were able to go perform for the inmates

within San Quentin prison. It was 300 inmates in the chapel of the prison. And they had to scan all of our stuff, go through with body scanners, check every check all the equipment coming in. And what was amazing is that it was 300 inmates within the chapel and we did this show for them, is that they were a brilliant, brilliant crowd, all in their yellow jeffersuits, all really up for the entertainment, just pleased to have something to engage with. And then we got to tour death row afterwards. No, you didn't. And it was amazing just to meet the inmates. And you go from this, you know, initially you obviously, you know, the iron bars and the exterior of the prison are really intimidating and you can very easily come to the conclusion that people

decide are evil. But actually, when you start to speak to them in person, as you know, is that, yeah, you suddenly had a little bit more empathy. I said, the way you just sort of casas, and we toured death row. Well, listen, I want to thank you for coming on the show. It was great to catch up with you. It's been seven years. Let's not wait another seven years. years, but I want to remind everybody that if they want to enjoy Champions of Magic, the holiday spectacular, it's at the Bluma Appel Theater. You can go to Ticketmaster.ca. They've extended the run, and there's a special ASL interpreted performance on December 27th at 5 p.m. So thank you very much, my friend. Really appreciate it. All the best. I'm keeping, please.

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