The Ben Mulroney Show - The immediate future of Canada now that Justin Trudeau has resigned

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -How the Conservatives are reacting to Trudeau's resignation and how they can force an election with Guest: Andrew Scheer, Opposition House Leader, former Opposition Leader -How does Jagmeet Singh position himself as the best chance to beat Pierre Poilievre? with Guest: Tom Parkin, Principal at Impact Strategies and Canadian columnist and commentator -Are the Liberals going to reverse course on the Carbon Tax with Guest: Kris Sims, Alberta Director Of The Canadian Taxpayers Federation -How the dollar and the markets will react to Trudeau's Resignation with Guest: Dr. Eric Kam, Economics Professor at Toronto Metropolitan University If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back. Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%. Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31, 2025. Visit td.com slash DI offer to learn more. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter Fairs include beer, wine, and snacks and and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit FlyPorter.com

and actually enjoy economy. We just heard from, got some insights on the left side of the political spectrum as it relates to, you know, what's next down the road post Trudeau announcement that he will be resigning. So let's look to the right side of the political spectrum and let's welcome to the show Andrew Scheer, opposition House leader and former leader of the opposition. Andrew Scheer, welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Great to chat with you. OK, so what was your what was your personal reaction after hearing the news yesterday? I thought it was very cowardly of and selfish of Justin Trudeau

to avoid a situation where the house could have voted non confidence and triggered an election where Canadians could finally put an end to his disastrous government. And said he he ran away from that, and he's left the country in a position of great uncertainty and chaos right at a time when we're facing some pretty major threats from the US in terms of tariffs and a lot of economic hardship

facing Canadians. So it's typical Justin Trudeau, he put himself and his party ahead of the wellbeing of Canadians. Yeah, listen, you and I are singing from the same hymnbook. But the one thing that I keep getting stuck on is I heard a pundit say, you can't be a leader if you don't have anyone to lead. And I mean, is it conceivable that he did the math and realized if he presented himself as the leader, he simply wouldn't have the candidates to run a national campaign?

Well, but again, you know, this goes back to his personal stature within the Liberal Party. We weren't just asking for an election, you know, last week or in the last week of December, we've been highlighting, conservatives have been highlighting for months, the pain that Canadians are going through and the fact that Canadians wanted an election, they don't want the carbon tax to be hiked.

We had multiple opportunities throughout the fall. He could have called an election at any one of those points along the way, but he let it get so bad with his own caucus where even his own MP started to realize that they were going to lose their jobs. And so they started putting pressure on him, but it had nothing to do with the well-being of Canadians. I guess that's my overall point is that, you know, what's right for the people of Canada was not part of Justin Trudeau's calculus this week. So no business is going to be done in the House of Commons. Donald Trump's going to show up in a few weeks. And if he's true to his word, destroy the Canadian economy with 25% tariffs. And we have to sit around and watch a liberal leadership race unfold where non-citizens get to pick the next prime minister

before voters get to pick the next government. Is that a fair assessment of what's going on? You've summed it up pretty well. It's mind boggling to think about it when you lay it out like that. How do you sit down at the negotiating table with a guy like Donald Trump who's just come off an election win where he got a strong and fresh mandate, when he knows that you're not going to be the prime minister anymore in a couple weeks? You know, he'll be sitting down to negotiate knowing that his own caucus doesn't want him,

the House of Commons doesn't want him, the Canadian people don't want him as prime minister. I don't know how that negotiation is gonna go, but I'm not very optimistic. And again, just go back, this is why we needed an election early, that we could have let the Canadian people choose a government with a fresh mandate, so that sitting down with Donald Trump

would have had our country in a much stronger position. So it's just very selfish. Well, one person who did sit down with Donald Trump was Kevin O'Leary. He was there over the weekend. And I just spoke with him on the Ben Mulroney show a little bit earlier where where he said, he tried to explain that there is a new guy coming in, there is some fresh, there's there's some fresh vision coming in with the conservative party, ultimately, with Pierre Poliev. And maybe you might want to give these guys a break, because when they come in, you will have somebody that you can, you will respect and somebody with an equally strong mandate

to do the things that will resonate with you. Do you find third party communication like that helpful? Is that the type of communication you want with the president? And is there any community official communication between the conservative party and the incoming administration? Well, you know, I think anytime you've got voices going down to speak to the US administration, trying to find a way to avoid these terrorists from being imposed is, I would say, not being privy to those conversations.

But I think in general, it's always good to have those messages of like, any kind of message to not impose these tariffs, I think are welcome. Because, I mean, I don't need to tell you, you know, your father had the wonderful legacy of a free trade with the United States that created so much prosperity for our country. We benefited so greatly from it and these tariffs are going to have a devastating impact in every sector. So I just believe that Pierre Polyov has laid out a fantastic plan to negotiate from a position of strength. And when you've got a prime minister who has made Canada an attractive place to invest

in where businesses could say, I can open up a factory here, I can dig a mine, and I'll get a good return for my workers and for my company, then that helps your negotiation position. Right now, Canadians don't have that. Investors are pulling out of Canada. There are fewer voices in Washington fighting for Canada, for Americans saying, hey, Mr. President, keep those markets open with Canada, because they're not interested in investing in Canada under Justin Trudeau. So that's the plan that Pierre-Paul Leavre has laid out, Canada first, Canada's strength, and that will be much better than what Justin Trudeau has been doing so far.

Of course, we can't, none of that can happen until this government falls, and that won't happen until the first non-confidence vote. The NDP say they will absolutely vote in favour. We had Tom Parkin on the show in the previous segment saying he doesn't see a scenario where Jagmeet Singh will change his mind on this. Do you trust that the NDP will stay onside and vote non-confidence at the first available opportunity? Well, we've been burned before and that's the only thing that it gives me a little bit of concern and pause when I think back to September, when Jagmeet Singh pretended to rip up that agreement with Trudeau and say that the deal is off. And then he went right back to supporting

Trudeau and keeping the liberals in power. I do agree that he made some pretty clear statements yesterday. It would be very difficult for him to back down, but it's happened in the past. So, you know, we'll believe it when we see it, but we're definitely gonna be reminding Canadians what we said this week. The conservatives, at least from my perspective, have been on an election footing for a long time, well-funded, well-focused, lots of caucus discipline, and it seems like you are ready to go.

Is there a fear that you might peak a little too early, given that right now there's no business to be done in Ottawa. And all we can do is sort of watch the circus unfold with this liberal leadership race. Well, I don't believe so because first of all, let's talk a little bit about the leader, the liberal leadership race. I think Canadians are going to see very quickly that no matter who runs for the liberal leadership, it's all gonna be more of the same. It's gonna be a series of candidates who have either voted for or helped Trudeau

implement his policies. Mark Carbontax-Carney, senior architect of the Liberal Economic Plan, Chrystia Freeland, Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Finance, responsible for massive deficits, carbon tax increases, you name it. So on the one hand, I believe Canadians are gonna find out very quickly that it's all gonna be more of the same

no matter who leads the party. But in terms of support for our party, it's because our leader, Pierre Poliev, has connected with Canadians and is speaking to the challenges they're facing. He was the first one to raise the alarm on the housing crisis and to offer concrete solutions on how to get more homes built

by taking off the GST on new home construction. We've been the ones, Conservatives have been the ones fighting against the liberal soft on crime policies that have caused so much hardship in communities and caused so much violent crime. So it's it's not that Canadians have kind of gotten sick of Trudeau or you know annoyed by his voice or, you know, his personality. It's because the policies the liberals have imposed have caused so much hardship. And until that changes, which it won't, then I believe Canadians are going to continue to support the Conservative Party. Andrew Scheer, really appreciate your time today. All the best

to you and yours, and I hope to speak to you again soon. Thank you very much. Happy New Year. All the best for 2025. Following Justin Trudeau's announcement that he would be resigning yesterday, Jagmeet Singh, the leader of the NDP, found his way in front of a microphone and was unequivocal that at the first available opportunity, the NDP would be voting no confidence in this government and signaling his desire to truly part ways from what was a healthy and productive relationship with the liberals as far as shepherding forward

a progressive agenda and vision for Canada. But if a week is a long time in politics, then the next few months of this leadership race are going to be an eternity and things can change. And so to talk more about this, we're joined by Tom Parkin, principal at Impact Strategies and Canadian columnist and commentator. Tom, welcome back to the show. Hi, thanks for having me again, Ben. So Anthony Koch, another friend of the show, tweeted yesterday, he said, I hate to be that guy, but I think this all but guarantees

the next election only happens in October. The new liberal leader will give Jagmeet Singh whatever he wants and then enjoy being prime minister for five minutes before getting torched in the next election. He said, I hope I'm wrong. But I guess, you know, every situation is different, Tom, and what would happen in a situation where a new leader is elected, who's even has an even more progressive vision of, for Canada, and is able to say things and offer up things that that that scratch an NDP itch. that that scratch an NDP itch? Well, first point on that is I don't see anybody in the field who is offering that or is going to offer that. Christy

Freeland, you know, her big bust up with Trudeau was in fact over, you know, her idea was what we got to get government finances in, in check, you know, so she was more oriented to getting, you know, the government's finances. Truett was actually looking at trying to help people's finances. I mean, he may have been going around in a goofy kind of way, but he was actually attuned to the idea that people are hurting and needed that $250 check. She did not. Carney doubt it. Christy Clark, oh my gosh. So I don't see anybody in that crew who is going to create that urge, who I think they're all going to move to the right. But even then,

if there was somebody, we've heard that before. We've heard it before and we've heard it before and we've heard it before. And I think it's just past the point that anybody can believe it from a liberal anymore. If you're a social democrat, kind of a left or center person, that any of them are going to keep their word when the throne speech is done and when reality comes. Look at the number of times that on a fairly limited agenda, Singh had to threaten to collapse the Trudeau government to get his way on pharmacare, which Trudeau had signed. He had put his name to and made a commitment to. So the fights that were there just to try and get the bare minimum out of these guys. Yeah. I just don't I just don't see that anybody I think that thing has a very, very strong case to

make that I've had it I've fed up with these guys. They don't tell the truth. They sucker you in. They do the switch and bait. We're not getting for it anymore. Let's roll the dice. We'll have an election. We're gonna find it. But Tom, is there any strategic value to drawing this out? Could somebody make the argument? No, there's none. There's none. I don't think so. I think it's purely, you would have to be a sucker. Well, then, but then that then presents another challenge. At least if you at least if you believe what what Pierre Poliev said during his interview with Jordan Peterson, where he said,

you know, to to to, we are currently living in the most progressive vision of Canada we've ever had with with the the NDP and the Liberals working so well together. And if if you believe that the crime rate and the unemployment rate and the un affordability rate and so on and so on are products of that progressive vision, then you've seen everything you need to see from Jagmeet Singh and the NDP. What do you say to that? Well, it's not a bad argument. Again, a couple of points. First of all, you know, we kind of touched on this last week on 50, but Jordan Peterson is not a great spokesperson for Peter Polly. I think that was really kind of a big mistake, because Jordan Peterson is like broadly disliked and broadly distrusted in Canada. And so being his cipher,

being his third party ballad, not a great move. Having said all that, the argument itself presupposes that there was a good relationship between Singh and Trudeau. And I think, you know, if you look back, uh, Singh had to fight Trudeau consistently to get him to agree, to get him to live up to his word. He had to threaten him, uh, with, uh, non-confidence and twice, uh, Trudeau back down, um, because he didn't, you know, he was doing poorly in the polls and obviously, you know, so we had to make a choice. Am I going to listen to this thing? So the premise that Trudeau was a progressive in action, I disagree

with it. I agree in words he was, and that was part of what was so annoying about him. But there's something about politics and whether you like the conservatives or not, they are highly effective at sort of creating narratives. And I remember when they first started referencing the NDP liberal government, they kept referring to NDP liberal government. And I found that jarring to my ear until until all of a sudden, it wasn't jarring anymore, because they repeated it enough. And and and jug meat and the NDP have to fight against the fact that we have been hearing that expression every single time a concerted stood up in the House of Commons or been in front of a microphone

for the better part of two years, that that that narrative or that perception is baked in for a great number of people and jug meat and the NDP are going to have to find a way to cleave cleave off a big chunk of those people and bring them back on side. I agree on both your points. It has been effective. A lot of people have heard that message, whether it's true or not. And and yes, he has to fight them. I think there's two things. One is, historically, looking backward, to remind people that Justin Trudeau was against

childcare, he was against dental care, he was against pharma care, he was against anti-SCAB legislation, all until the second that he needed to be in favor of them for his own political future, and then he wanted credit for them, right? So here was the NDP pushing these things for years and years and years, trying to embarrass the liberals, especially around childcare, which they promised over and over and again. They just were relentless and they fought them. So the first key thing is we have to... Trudeau, sorry, Singh has to remind people this wasn't a happy hole

You know hand-holding exercise between Trudeau and sing sing had to fight Trudeau to live up to the words that That he never wanted to put on the paper to begin with but the second and the interesting thing going forward Ben is How does sing play? Amid the liberal leadership race? So what does Carney say about whether we should have a dental plan or a pharmacare plan? What does Freeland say about whether people need financial help right now? What does Christy Clark say about housing, which was a complete disaster under her in BC? I mean, she was just...

So, you know, there's a lot of space to be created if they're, I think, focused on intervening and contrasting his record with, you know, and even Trudeau's record, what he could get from Trudeau with where the Liberal Party is going now, which is clearly gonna try and move to a more standard business right position. Tom, I only have a few seconds left for you

on this last one, but I'd love to get your sense on strategically going into an election campaign with who knows how if the liberals have hit their floor in terms of popular support but but all signs are pointing to a polio government at some point is should the strategy be for the NDP to be to be positioning themselves as an alternative to become the government or should be they be fighting it out to become the official opposition?

They're shooting for government. These folks, you know, you know, Ben, I think you've been around politicians. All of these people even, you know, God bless her little heart, Elizabeth may gotcha. I got you. Is the goal. Maybe not Blanchcha. That is the goal. Maybe not Blount's shadow, okay. Maybe there's an exception. But that is the goal for all of them. So that is what they want to do.

And so they're going to try and find their path. For some of them, frankly, Paul Yance path is much easier than Jagmeet Singh. I mean, we can all- We got to leave it there, Tom, but I really appreciated this conversation. It's been a lot of fun and really, really informative. I don't know if I was convinced, but one of the reasons I was leaning

towards believing that Justin Trudeau was going to stick around at least a while ago was because of the carbon tax, because I believed that if he knows he knows that he has an uphill battle in beating Pierre Poliev. And he knows that if Pierre Poliev wins the next election on day one, the tax is history. And it's the defining achievement of his government. And so if he thrown the party into a leadership race, one of the quickest ways for these guys

to differentiate themselves from Justin Trudeau would be to say, vote for me, when I become prime minister, I'm going to ax the tax. I'll find a different way to fight climate change. And that's why I thought he would stick around. Well, he's not sticking around. And so now the question is a real one. It's not hypothetical anymore.

What happens if one of these candidates in order to differentiate themselves from the this government and the legacy of this government decides that they are going to stand up against one of the very initiatives that they voted for? Joining us now is Chris Sims, the Alberta Director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. Chris, welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Ben. Do you think there's a possibility that one of the new leader of the party in order to give themselves a fighting chance could dump the carbon tax in order to differentiate themselves from Justin?

You know, I can't even imagine a liberal party candidate leader sticking with the carbon tax at this point, aside from, you know, hardcore zealot like Stefan Giebo, those kind of middle of the road members of parliament would be crazy to not distance themselves in a second from the carbon tax. In fact, I'm expecting one of the first words out of the mouths of these new leadership candidates, maybe even this week then, will be, you know what, we tried that, it didn't work, I'm scrapping the carbon tax. We'd like them to do it now. We'd like them to do it now. Yeah, we'd like them to announce it now.

We know that Pierre Poliev has been beating the axe the tax drum for a while, but over at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation I have to assume that you've got a longer list of tax issues with this liberal government. It doesn't just end begin and end with the carbon tax. No, for sure. So the carbon tax is the is the big one, because to your point, it's the folks who are filling up their minivans, which cost them $13 extra their pickup trucks, $20 extra heating your home here in Alberta. It's costing the average Alberta household more than $400 extra this winter just in the carbon tax to heat their home. So it is a huge one for us. Uh, we're also keeping an eye on the capital

gains tax increase, which is affecting a lot of people, uh, some of the liberal government were trying to say, oh, well, it only affects people who own yachts. Um, no, uh, if you have a parent who passes away and now you have a secondary property in your possession, people are worried about getting nailed there.

It also hits physicians very hard in the way that they've structured their retirement years. There's a lot of issues with capital gains, business owners who are trying to sell equipment. So yeah, there are a lot of tax issues for sure, but it's the carbon tax, which has this layering effect because of course it affects farmers and truckers.

So I'm expecting the majority, frankly, of the Liberal Party leadership candidates to distance themselves from the carbon tax. Now, if we assume that Pierre Poliev forms the next government, becomes prime minister, how does he unwind the financial damage that's been done? Is there, what's the most effective, most responsible pathway back to balance in terms of the money, the revenue that's

coming into the government? Great question. So quick, quick Coles notes there. The quickest way for them to get back to balance is for them to go back to their projected Trudeau government spending in 2021, 2022. So you can go spending in 2021, 2022. So you can go to our website, taxpayer.com. There's like a 70 page report in there of exactly how to balance the budget. And what was remarkable is that they don't need to go super duper austerity.

They just need to go back to their projected level of Trudeau era spending from 2021, 22. And so that's the quick answer, the longer answer. Go ahead. Well, but Chris, but this will be a government with different priorities, right? So they have committed to a more robust military, more border security, more security at our ports. I mean, when I hear that only 1% of all shipping containers

are even opened up, like that, okay, I prefer that be closer to 90%. That's a lot of manpower. That's a lot of training. That's a lot of new material like it costs a lot to build up the military costs a lot to work at some point, there's going to be another conversation about equalization, there's to be another conversation about equalization. There's going to be another conversation about health care for the payments. There's a lot of money that's going to need to be injected into different priorities. Yes, exactly. And they're able to do that. I think sometimes because we've got so used to it, especially during the Trudeau government years,

in that they have doubled the national debt. In, in that they have doubled the national debt. In nine years, they've doubled the national debt. I think even those of us who are keen political observers have lost track of how outrageous this government's spending habits are. Like remember ArriveCan? ArriveCan was supposed to cost, that app in cost went from $80,000 to $54 million. That is an increase of 67,000%.

That's just one example, that's just one. Watch the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves sort of thing. Yeah. What's the Canadian Taxpayers Federation opinion on something like returning the GST to 7%? Seems to me that's a quick and easy lift. Billions of dollars coming into the coffers. People were used to paying it. Bring that back. Get rid of the carbon tax. Bring back the GST at 7%. What are your thoughts on that?

I can't imagine the Taxpayers Federation being huge fans of that. You might remember that we started back in 1990, and that was largely in opposition to the GST. So I can't imagine our supporters being in favor of that. The issue here is that they have a spending problem. Government has got an enormous spending problem. That example I gave you for a RiveCan is just that one example. Remember even the Phoenix Pay System, which is the software that manages pay for federal government workers, went into billions with a B dollars. And the consultants. The consultants. My god, the consultants. So I understand where you're saying of, okay, how are we going to afford this?

Oh my gosh, there is so much wasteful spending that goes on where they are able to cut. And when it comes back to something like the carbon tax, they're just not going to be able to afford not to cut it. Yeah. Just keep in mind, just think about this. Like you and I have spent so much time up on Parliament Hill. Imagine they're coming back after their leadership race, they sit in the house of

commons, end of March, bam, they're into either a throne speech or the supply motion vote, which is a money vote. They lose confidence in that window. Guess what comes next? April 1st, carbon tax increase. Imagine being that new government leader. I just lost confidence.

I'm going to go door knocking and here's your carbon tax increase. Yeah, Chris, it feels like the way this has been set up and the timing of it, it's the worst of all worlds for this new liberal leader. Because, and let's not forget, they're going to be, they will be dealing, if we take Trump at his word, they will be dealing with a world where we're paying 25% tariffs, or others

are paying 25% tariffs on everything coming into the states. It is really a perfect storm. And so this is where you know, I think coming right out of the gate, that the majority of these liberal leadership candidates are going to say, ah, we tried the carbon tax, and it sure didn't work. It costs people way too much money. We're not meeting our emissions goals. Let's scrap this thing altogether. It would be a really smart move for this liberal government to do that and for liberal leadership candidates to do it because keep in mind that we've had already a summer where all these liberal MPs are getting their ear chewed off by their constituents saying, look at my heat

bill. You know, we got to leave it there. Saying, look at my heat bill, you know? We got to leave it there, but thank you so much. I hope you join us again sometime soon. You betcha. Great show. Thanks, Ben. Remember after Donald Trump won, Bitcoin went on a tear and the stock market went through the roof. There was this optimism that he was going to deregulate and he was going to, I don't know,

anybody who was looking to make money thought it's more likely I'm going make money tomorrow and they put their money where their mouth was and the markets did what they did. The inverse can be true if you're not excited about the future you might hoard your cash and the Canadian dollar has if it hasn't been a freefall it certainly has been on a parachute in a slow descent for a little bit, a little while. And I want to know why. So we're joined by Dr. Eric Kam, economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University. Doc, great to talk to you again. Happy New Year, Benedict, to you and your family. So what do you attribute the dollar tanking to?

Oh, that's a good question. Well, I would have to say that for far too long now since the pandemic, we really have no economic plan. I mean, during the pandemic, the plan was let's just print money like we don't know what else to do, which is good because they didn't know what else to do. So they print all of this cash. It doesn't take anything more than a first year economic student to know that when you

inject that much currency, and we're talking about 70% of all of the currency in Canada today was printed during the pandemic, that you're going to get rampant inflation. Is that true? Is that true? Oh, please look it up. Fact check. Wow. So you've got that much money.

So you've got, you know, you call it demand chasing supply. We know we had a supply chain problem. So the only thing that can happen is inflation. So the bank of Canada puts their collective heads together and says, let's raise the rate of interest faster than it's ever been done before. They do that about 10 times in two years. Then of course, the economy goes into the proverbial toilet. So the bank of Canada says, all right, that didn't work. Let's reverse it. So they put their Canada says, all right, that didn't work. Let's reverse it. So they put their heads together and then they start dropping it.

Now, did it have to go up? Yes. Did it have to go down? Yes. But at the rate, the speed, the magnitude that I'll never understand on the backs of hardworking Canadians, this is the part I don't know. So the economy has right now no growth. I don't care what anybody tells

you, Ben, when you strip away all of the all of the bells and whistles, GDP is not growing. So when our economy is not growing, combined with the fact that the United States economy is growing, and investors want to park their money there, you get $1 that is nowhere, you get macro growth, that is nowhere. And you get a prime minister that had to resign. Dr. has the resignation of Justin Trudeau helped the markets or the dollar? Was there a post resignation announcement bump? Well, I'm going to say two things. Number one, if you want to feel good about ourselves, then you look at someone like Bloomberg who says the uncertainty index went from 350 to 650. But I would take that opinion about the same opinion as I would take my ex-wife. The fact is,

we are a small open economy, my friend, and we are piggybacking on a large open economy. We don't get to dictate that type of growth. It takes other places with whom we trade to generate that type of growth. And then we piggyback onto them. And you see, that's the problem right now, Ben, is you say, okay, the United States is growing because they didn't have a holy war on inflation. They kept rates a little bit higher. The world pumped trillions of dollars into the U S why aren't we doing better? Well, it's because we don't have anything other than consumption to fall back on. We know that immigration is a gross strategy failed miserably. So what do we do?

Well, in the face of a president saying, well, we may not trade with you as much as we did anymore. Canada says, all right, let's take the only bullet in the holster. That's consumption. Let's keep it high by keeping interest rates relatively low. So right now, the economy is kind of nowhere. People are waiting for this, this grand reopening of the Canadian economy, but it cannot help happen with this liberal government then because they don't have any growth strategies. So nothing is going to happen until the next election and we can work on the supply side. And that's the thing as well, Doc.

It's the uncertainty. We don't know how long this leadership campaign is going to go on. We don't know who's going to end up winning, so who the next prime minister is going to be. That's a lot of uncertainty at a time where we certainly know who the president is, and we certainly know that he's got his bullseye triggered on us.

And there's a lot of things we certainly know about them and very few things we certainly know about ourselves. That can't be a good situation to be in for us. No. And as I was saying to Greg Brady yesterday, uncertainty is a killer. You know, I always see things, Ben, through an economic lens. So right now, all you heard yesterday was pro-rogue parliament, pro-rogue parliament. When they say that, do you want to know what I hear? I hear you pro-rogue the economy. Because we know now, until there's a new government, there is going to be nothing. I truly believe the Poliev government, unless they're...

Well, there is not one yet, but when they say there's one, they say that they're going to look at things like the supply side and research and development and efficiencies and finally bringing productivity back so that there's both a demand side strategy and a supply side strategy. But this proroguing is disastrous for the economy. It means that nothing is going to happen for the next, what, seven or eight months, maybe even a year and another year of no economic growth and an economy that can't take it. The dollar cannot come back over 70 cents because there's nothing in place to push it there. Ben, let me play a hypothetical for you because I've heard some people musing that given how much time and attention is going to be required to run a leadership campaign and given the fairness of it all that a number of a number of ministers might

give up their portfolios in order to focus on running for the liberal leadership, including someone like Dominique LeBlanc, our newest finance minister. What does that do to uncertainty in Canada? You know, the truth, I'm not sure that does, that does very much. I think right now that the world, and by the world, I mostly mean North America, because that's Canada's biggest trading partners, right? I think they're looking at the conservatives right now.

I think they have washed their hands of the liberals and said, these are the people of the day before yesterday, and we want the people of the day after tomorrow. So I think that when you talk about expectations and things like that, I think the world is watching to see what's going to happen post-liberals. What is going on with the liberals

in the next seven or eight months is as they say, Ben, you are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. And the last story that I wanna broach with you is this story that the Canadian Revenue Agency is gonna continue with the capital gains changes despite prorogation. That's according to the finance department. Now, earlier today on another radio show, I heard that I thought prorogation made everything die on the

vine, including the capital gains inclusion rate change. Yeah, I thought so too. And so now, of course, you have people looking up going, well, what's going to happen with this? Because it's a big deal. I think there has to be a ruling on this soon because to your point, the longer that people don't know, you're just going to have more and more uncertainty fed into the economy and how much of a drag do we need. But there's always a silver lining in economics. And maybe the silver lining here is that if people

and industry are bracing for the worst result and saving to that or putting money away to pay that bill, well, if it doesn't happen, then you've got some disposable income with which you can do some other things. So I always tell whether it's a business or a person, hope for the best, but plan for the worst because the worst that could happen then is that you have some disposable income that didn't get absorbed into the tax base that you have some decisions around. And really, Ben, at the end of the day, what do Canadians want these people that are one paycheck away from insolvency? They want more choice. They

want more disposable income. So you know what, use this chance to save as if you're not going to have it so that if you do have it, you win. In about 30 seconds, is there anything over the past nine years that you believe that Justin Trudeau and his government have done that were a boon to the economy? No, I don't think there was a boom. No, I think there are 15 seconds. I think that rates were too low, they had to go up and then they were too high. They had to come down. But I don't know why when they find a hole, they have to fall in it. I don't understand why the magnitude of all of the changes under Justin Trudeau had to be so steep up and steep

down that the Canadian economy didn't have time to catch up. And that's why we are where we are today then. Dr. Eric Kam, I never have to ask you, tell me what you really think. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your candor. Happy new year and stay healthy, my friend.