The Ben Mulroney Show - The Liberals only want a Donald Trump election. Sorry that's not gonna fly

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

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BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show on this Tuesday. Thank you so much for joining us. If you're listening to us on CFPL in London or on 640 Toronto, I say thank you. Also, you may be listening anywhere in the country or indeed the world on the iHeartRadio app or in podcast form, wherever you are. Thank you so much for joining us

and for helping us build the Ben Mulroney Show one listener at a time. All right, there will be plenty of time to get to the federal election, but Donald Trump is affecting us at all levels of government. Some people scratching their heads as to why the city of Toronto would wade into the Donald Trump tariff war. Last week we saw Mayor Olivia Chow get interviewed on CNN. As she said, we are going to change our procurement rules in this city, and if you are in an American company

moving forward, you will not be able to bid on certain city contracts. And we're gonna look at possibly canceling some of those. When she was asked to cost it out by the CNN reporter, she was unable to do so. So now it looks like she's facing some pushback from this plan. And look, there are a lot of city councillors with whom I find common cause on certain issues. Others less so.

But one person that you know, not not a lot we don't we don't align to too much is a city councillor Josh Matlow, a good man. He was my city councilor. We've always been very friendly, but in terms of priorities, we are not necessarily aligned. However, on this point, he makes a very valid one. He says, I know that every leader is being asked to fight against the United States right now. It's an emotionally charged issue, but I have concerns about how hastily this was done and really how it was put forward.

And he makes a good point. Look, I think, I take the cynical approach here. I think that positioning oneself in an adversarial position against Donald Trump in the climate that we are living in today serves certain politicians very well. We will talk about Mark Carney and the liberals and how they want this entire election to be about Donald Trump, even though we have a lot of fish to fry thanks to this liberal party.

But they don't want to talk about that. They want to talk about Trump. And you've seen what's happened in some of the polls. I believe Olivia Chow suspects that the arithmetic could be the same for her. That nonsense of an elbows up get together at City Hall over the weekend when I suggested yesterday how about we put our elbows up and deal with the people who are taking over our streets? How about we put our elbows up and deal with the crime in our streets? How about the elbows up for the smash and grabs? No, no, no, no, no. It's for Donald Trump. And look, you know, I think that the point is

about 10% of city contracts awarded in the last two years have been awarded to American companies and the city spent about $3.2 billion in total on suppliers during that timeframe. So it's not a, it's a lot of money, but overall for the city budget, it's not a ton. However, you got to recognize, if an American was awarded the contract, it's because they probably came in as the lowest bidder, having jumped through certain hoops, checking all the boxes. So what you're saying is we are willing to pay more

in order to get the services for Torontonians. All things being equal, maybe I could subscribe to that, except we don't have any money in this city. We have a budget shortfall and have for years. Stay in your lane, Mayor Chau. Your lane is to figure out how to pay for the services that we already have. You're not to create a bigger budget shortfall because it makes people feel better. Because it allows us to name our pain and our pain is Donald Trump.

It's it's an emotional response to an economic problem. And that doesn't solve the problem by any means. But it maybe makes people feel well, if I'm against Donald Trump, maybe I'm for Olivia Chow. I don't like that. You're playing politics with our pocketbook and I don't have time for that. And the Toronto Public Library is getting in on it too.

They're asking locals to recreate wartime posters about US relations. So you remember the really cool artistic posters. Listen, back in the day, I'll tell you a story. Years ago, I had an idea for a line of pocket squares. And I developed with a friend of mine, and it was called Hank. I was able to get them into certain retailers

for a short period of time. It ran its course after two years. If Shopify had been around at the time, I would have started a Shopify shop and who knows where Hank, my pocket square company, would be today. But one of the things we did is we, rather than have designs on them,

we took old posters from World War II, you know, Rosie the Riveter and all those, and we just changed the color scheme. And so when you bunched it up and put it in your breast pocket of your blazer, it just looked like a nice pop of different colors. And so there's a real artistic merit to these things, but now to take an economic war

and add fuel to the fire and suggest that we are on a war footing with the the the American government. Look Canadians are prepared to face pain here. We are ready for this thing to get worse before it gets better. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you're not helping anything in the city of Toronto by firing people into a tizzy. To what end, I ask you? To what end? I find it, I find you're trying to turn the temperature up to 11

and it's unhelpful. It's unhelpful. Now if you wanted to get distracted from that, if you want to turn the page from all the Trump tariff talk, the election, you will sit in front of your TV and you will turn it on. Do you watch traditional television or are you into streaming? Well, according to a new study, 46% of Canadian households, 46% do not have a TV subscription with either cable satellite or a telecom based provider. 46% that's up from 42% in 2023, which means the majority is coming anytime soon. And my producer George made a good point. Netflix is exploding in popularity.

And that's despite having these tiered services that includes commercials. Now the commercials are not turning people off from the ease of use that comes from streaming. So this is a, you know, we keep talking existential threat and sometimes it's overused, sometimes it's appropriate. I think in the case of traditional television where I made my home for so many years, it absolutely is an existential threat. We'll have to see how the traditional television channels survive or pivot,

but as of right now, it just seems like an unstoppable force, a trend towards everything going towards streaming. So good luck to them. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news you need. That's why you can now get Global National every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day, so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global national podcast. You can find it on Apple podcasts

Spotify Amazon music and wherever you find your favorite podcasts Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and in our previous segment I told you we would be talking about the federal campaign Election campaign and how it ties in to Donald Trump the block Quebécois has come out and said something that somewhat of a hot take that is really upsetting certain people in this campaign. Denis Trudel is a candidate for the Bloc Québécois. And listen, say what you will about the Bloc, just because I

disagree with their their view on Confederation and their view on Quebec within Canada. It doesn't mean that everything they say needs to be discounted automatically. Denis Trudel posted on Twitter, I'm going to translate a little bit of a very long tweet for you. He said, I'm afraid, not of Trump obviously, I'm afraid that the campaign is going to be monopolized by him. And we won't be talking, we're going to be talking about the ridiculousness of the 51st state, even though we have a housing crisis, a climate crisis, a linguistic crisis,

growing inequalities, a lack of intergenerational equity, a culture that's in danger. And he goes on and he goes on and he goes on. And so essentially what he said, I'm far more scared of the liberals as a threat to the future of Quebec, but you could just extrapolate that to Canada than I am of Donald Trump. And Stephen Guilbault, the former environment minister

who is the gentleman who, the greatest advocate for the carbon tax that the government had, he's very upset. Very upset, he said. And I want you to listen to this quote, because it is the most ironic thing he could have possibly said. Quote, how can you be so out of touch with reality to only see your own political egotistic potential gains at the detriment of an entire society is frankly baffling. Mr. Gilbo, with respect, that's exactly what I think about you and your party, like word for word.

And this is what we're living in and is what I want to talk to you about right now at 4168706400 or 1-888-225-TALK, this is the performative aspect of the liberals again. If you don't think the liberals, if you don't think that the liberals and their lost decade is worse than Trump, I don't know what to tell you. But they would suggest that what they want you to believe is Donald Trump is worse than the lost liberal decade and if you suggest otherwise you are un-Canadian you've got people like former cabinet minister Sheila Copps who is calling anybody who does not subscribe to the liberal orthodoxy calls them

un-Canadian calls them traitors on Twitter any chance she gets and there is an army of people out there supporting Mark Carney, ready to call anybody who would suggest that Donald Trump is not the only issue as un-Canadian, as traitors, as treasonous to this country. This is absolutely in keeping with what this Liberal Party has been doing for years. Anytime you disagree with them, they will tar and feather you with some of the worst things they can possibly say. It used to be all about identity politics. Now the only identity that matters to them is Canadian, and if you disagree with them, you are not Canadian.

You are un-Canadian. You are less than Canadian. They are the ones who know what's right for this country. Their values are Canadian values. Their priorities are Canadian values. And to suggest that anything else could be the way is to be treasonous and treacherous to this country. And I am done with it. I'm so tired of it. Look, it's working for them if you believe certain polls. It is working if you believe certain polls, but it is not good for this country. Brandon, welcome to the show. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? No, well, thank you for taking my call there Ben, but you've you've hit the nail on the Use the hammer to hit the nail right if you disagree with the liberals they silence you Yeah, they tried to cancel you and they won't listen to and they won't even have a normal conversation

Yeah, they'll just they'll just try to shut you down Yeah, get on team Canada and Team Canada is whatever we say it is. Anything else is unhelpful. Anything else is helping Donald Trump. If you remember just not too long ago, the PCC leader, when he was talking to Judd Mingsing, and he talked about, like, it's OK for us to disagree. And then what did Judd Mingsing do?

Completely just, like, you know, again, just tried to shut them down, disagree with them. And you know, call them all the slurs that they have to put out there, right? Like it's ridiculous. Right, I had a troll come after me on Twitter, calling me Maple Maga, simply because I had a differing opinion than the Liberal government. And then I went back and saw his previous tweet. They said, the great

thing about being in Canada is we can disagree respectfully. But what he's saying is we can disagree so long as you agree with everything I say. And that is the stock and trade and has been for 10 years. Make no mistake, this is the exact same playbook that the Liberals have been leveraging for 10 years. They're going back to it. This is no different than 10 years of Justin Trudeau. If you don't agree with us, you are less than. You are other. And it used to be you were hate-filled. Now you're American. And that is, it might as well be the same thing because being an American these days they have the it's like it's like They've corrupt. It's that that expression has been tarnished. Thank you for the call. Hey cam. Welcome to the show

Yeah, the liberals shouldn't be saying that the important questions come through the media and ask them direct questions Why do we import late steel up to Algoma? Algoma is waiting? Okay for our new blast burners. Canadians should get behind that at a government level and sell that new furnace. We got ships to build. Yeah. For lumber, shutting down plants. Yeah. Our mills. Wait a minute. I need that lumber back over here in Ontario to feed my Ontario housing projects, or my affordable housing projects. So these have to be asked by the media. Yeah.

And Canadians have to start listening. Well, I agree with you. I've been disappointed with the quality of scrutiny thus far that I've seen from certain members of the media. The questions that are being asked are oftentimes, in my opinion, not the right questions to ask, but that's just one man's opinion. Cam, thank you so much of the media. The questions that are being asked are oftentimes, in my opinion, not the right questions to ask, but that's just one man's opinion. Cam, thank you so much for the call.

Jake, you're saying the conservatives should lean into this. What do you mean? I think they should just say, if this is the definition of being Canadian, I'm proudly on Canadian then. Yeah, well, I said yesterday, I'm not gonna take any lessons in patriotism from people

who've been besmirching our national identity and our history for 10 years. It's just not going to happen. These guys are just political whores. Whichever way the wind blows, all of a sudden that's why they're doing it. I actually believe that's why Trump probably wants Carney to win because he knows he'll get him whichever way the electorate blows. The history probably wants Carney to win because they know they'll get whatever whichever way the electorate blows. Beasley probably wants Carney to win because they know they'll get whatever concessions they want to get out of him. They'll wring out of him because

we'll just go whichever way the wind blows. Well yeah, Jacob, this is a liberal party that has weakened this country in so many fundamental ways and Donald Trump pounces on weakness. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying anything that people haven't known for a decade about this man. And so here we find ourselves and it's not my fault and it's not your fault. It's the fault of this government that has made it their policy to get in the way of those who would build this country. Joey, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben, how are you?

I'm well, thank you. Excellent, thanks for having me. You basically say everything that makes complete sense, and as you said, the Liberal Party asking for Mike Myers contact information about 12 days ago, right? About a week before SAD came out. And it's ironic that two guys, as you've seen online, that don't live in Canada, haven't lived in Canada, don't pay taxes in Canada, are telling us how to be Canadian. If that's not the most liberal thing in the world, I don't know what is. Well, it's the definition of performance over policy. It's performing. It's sizzle with no stake. And, and we're gonna be talking about this second more long form interview between Mark Carney and Mike Myers a little bit later. But you're absolutely right and and this is look Danielle Smith that the the the the the people supporting liberals took issue with Danielle Smith saying that there's there would be alignment between Pierre

Poliev and Donald Trump as if that is somehow a bad thing the greatest things that have ever been accomplished I said this yesterday between Canada and the United States is when there has been alignment, when we have rowed in the same direction. And I'll state again what I said yesterday, just because we're rowing in the same direction doesn't mean we're in the same boat. But the liberals want you to think that if if you are working towards a common goal, which by the way they've been championing, why would you ruin this great relationship Donald Trump? We share values, we share a border, we share a landmass,

we share history, we share culture, we share all these things. So that is not alignment for you? It's so rich how they're willing to shut off half the conversation and only look at the part that serves them. And the fact that some people are buying it just makes me shake my head. Who do we

have now? We got David. David, what do you think of my argument here? I concur with you 1000%. Ben, I'm, it literally makes me. It literally makes me nauseous how people are still so easily dissuaded by this party and and how they're still it's like the one way to defeat these people is to then actually even if you present them with with all the correct facts and you actually can make a logical argument against everything that the Liberal Party stands for these people are that they're so struck in with the Red Pill Syndrome, they're literally willing to die on that hill and they will not change their minds despite, no matter

how much concrete information you present in front of them. They're just, and I don't know if these people, these are, the vast majority of these people are people who are in direct favour-ship or are in some sort of beneficial relationship by being connected to the liberal government. I know one person who I do look out here who gets a lot of government contracts Yeah, and they are continually pumping the liberal narrative out through every social media channel they have. David, I got it. I got to bounce. But thank you so much for the call. If you're on the line, please hold more of your calls on this when we continue on The

Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to The Ben Mulroney Show. Over the past 10 years, my distrust and anger has grown with this Liberal government, seemingly with every policy announcement, and I have never, ever crossed the Rubicon to challenge their love of Canada. Ever. I have never called them a traitor. I have never said that they were un-Canadian.

I said they were doing damage to Canada. And if I've ever encountered somebody who referred to them in such demeaning words, I would do my best to correct them. And the fact that the left has, in the most ironic twist, the left that has been breaking down the values of Canada and the identity of Canada systematically for 10 years is now draping itself in the flag and suggesting that anybody who is not on Team Carney

is not on Team Canada is disgusting. And so I put the call out to you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. You know, we've been looking at a politician who suggested that the liberals are a greater threat to Canada than Donald Trump, and they are up in arms. How dare you say that? You know, you don't get to tell people what their priorities are. Sorry! You don't get to do it. If somebody feels that the biggest, the clear present danger is the is the party that's been governing this place for 10 years and doesn't deserve another four,

that's their prerogative. So welcome to the show. Who do we have? We've got to Wayne Wayne. Welcome to the show. Today, sir, I realize this is a conservative station. I mean, the conservative or liberal, but I will say this, we have a liberal government that is putting their whole trust in their whole campaign into a defend Trump or go against Trump. And you guys are all over it. But at the same time, when Ford did that, that was a winning system for him. And I think this is the exact same thing that's happening. But Wayne, Wayne, hey, Wayne, Wayne, thank you.

Hold on, hold on, Wayne, I wanna have a conversation with you here. That's a fair point, that's a fair point. What I'm taking issue with is not that they've decided that their strategy in this election is to focus entirely on Donald Trump. That is not that they've decided that their strategy in this election is to focus entirely on Donald Trump. That is not my issue. My issue is that any time somebody says something that steps out of line with how they want to fight,

they will call you un-Canadian. And I did not see that in the provincial election. I don't think that that's exactly what they're doing. This is politics. They're going to go against anybody that disagrees with them. That doesn't matter what party you're on. Wayne, I can promise you, I can promise you, Wayne, I have never in my life been called a traitor more than I have in the past six weeks by people who six months ago would have been just as happy to fly the Canadian flag at half-mast forever for the ills and perceived and real of the past.

So I promise you, something has shifted. This is coming down. People have got to make a decision. And if they're smart, they'll listen to everybody. But just one side. I agree. I agree. Let's leave it there.

Wayne, thank you so much for the call. I really do appreciate it. Call back any time. Peter, welcome to the show. Well, hi, agree. Let's leave it there. Wayne, thank you so much for the call. I really do appreciate it. Call back anytime. Peter, welcome to the show. Oh, hi, Ben. How are you? I'm well. Thank you. Good. Good. Love your show. Thank you. If if Olivia Chow and Mark Carney or the Liberal Party have a house of decency, they will pick up the phone and call Donald Trump and say thank you because they're cashing in big time on on Donald Trump. Yeah. Donald Trump has only been there for two months and he has he has bought in the investment of two billion or more.

I want to ask this question to the Liberal Party and especially Olivier Chao with all this nonsense of, you know, elbow up and all this stupidity. How much business they have brought in in their two years? Look, all I can tell you, Peter, is this, the crisis that we are in is a crisis of our own making that was led by the liberal government. First of all, they put us in the position we're in today by not building, by not digging, by not mining. Then, when he gets elected, they do nothing to gain favor with him. Then they throw us into the drama that was the liberal

leadership that none of us wanted. Then Mark Carney gets elected saying that the biggest threat to the country is Donald Trump and he still hasn't had a phone call with him. That tells me that he wants this to be an election issue because he thinks it's winning. That is cynical. That is playing Russian roulette with the Canadian economy. If it really was, if he really honestly believed it was the biggest economy, if it really was, if he really honestly believed it was the biggest issue, he would have called him. He hasn't called him.

Like what the hell is that? What the hell is that? If people can't see that, I can't help them. Justin, welcome to the show. I get it that it's a strategy that they believe is gonna work for them, but to demonize anybody who stands against them or offers another way is based the worst kind of politics as far as I'm concerned. Justin, you there? Hey. Thanks for checking my call, Ben.

What I think is people were tired of Trudeau. They wanted something different. So they were leaning towards Pierre with new ideas and stuff. But it comes down to it. Carney is a better choice. He's more educated. You go back to education. Carney's got a doctor in economics and he just seems more steady, more calm. Pierre keeps delivering the same old slogans just like Justin, carbon tax, Carney. Well, I'm seeing it for the Liberals. I'm seeing time to get to work, time to go to work. Let's get it done. We got it done. I mean, the slogans come from everywhere. Here's the problem, Justin, as I see it for the Liberals. Nothing has changed on the ground for Canadians, with the exception of the carbon tax being turned down to zero,

which means on April 1st, we will finally be getting the break that we have long hoped for at the pumps. Besides that, the affordability crisis is still a problem. The crime in our streets is still a problem. The investment community is... We still are not a great place to invest. All that stuff still

exists and for for the liberals to keep their eyes on Donald Trump what they are doing is they're re-victimizing everybody who has fallen behind during the past 10 years because they're saying that's not the issue the issue is Donald Trump and that will come back I think and bite them because those people are still hurting what do you think what do you think to that? That may be true but I mean to shift bite them because those people are still hurting. What do you think? What do you think to that? That may be true, but I mean, to shift gears a little bit on provincial, what has Doug Ford done for Ontario in the past eight years?

He said he was going to cut spending, cut taxes, and his spending doubled more than liberals did when when and begin to empower. He spent more like a drunken sailor, and he's got more liberal with his spending. Well, we'll see. Listen, we'll see. We'll see if we'll see if we'll see if Doug Ford and and your your perceived assessment of him, Tars Pierre Poliev in any way. I don't know that that's germane to the conversation. I think we are firmly looking at this federal election. But look, I take your point and I appreciate the call.

Olivia, thank you for giving us a call this morning. I've been I love your show. Olivia, thank you for giving us a call this morning. Hi Ben, I love your show. Thank you. I agree with whatever you're saying. Just like that, I would love to see Premier Ford take that box off of Prime Minister McDonald. Yep, as would I. The reason I think that box is still there, Olivia, is because we can't trust

people walking down the street not to vent their grievance against a great Canadian leader and say, oh, I don't like him, so I'm going to spray paint him. I think it was put there to protect him because we're currently living in a time where if you feel enough anger, then you can do whatever you want. Well, I'd like to see what the reaction would be. Anybody who does anything, they're not Canadian. They're spray painting John A. McGo. What's your issue with him?

Aren't you Canadian? Listen, I would love, but it's, see, again, this is not a fully thought out argument by those on the left. These are the people who switched teams so quickly. They were willing to burn the Canadian flag and now they're wrapping themselves in it. So ask them to follow that to its logical conclusion. If you are Canadian, do you not stand with Sir John A. McDonald? A lot of them would say, of course not. He's a genocidal maniac. So it collapses under

the weight of its own hypocrisy, but it's working for them now, and if it's not broken, you don't fix it. But like I said, I have never ever called somebody I disagree with politically a traitor. And it is happening multiple times a day. It's happening across the board. Danielle Smith is not a traitor. Danielle Smith is someone who tried to step into the power vacuum left by a government in Ottawa bereft of vision, bereft of leadership, and she did what she could based on the mandate

that she has for the people of Alberta. And now when when when Ottawa decides they don't like it, she's somehow a traitor. This is nonsense. It's unhelpful. And again, this breaks down the social cohesion that we used to have as a nation This makes us less of a country because you're putting people you're putting people in the most awful camps One side is virtuous and one side is Canadian and everybody else is anti-canadian

American and looking to take the country down. This is how you build a country This is how you build consensus you? This is how you build consensus? You say that you're the people who don't want to have division? You're going to unite us? We're all in this together? Talk about sloganeering, empty sloganeering. That to me is a bridge too far.

It's a bridge too far. Anyway, thank you so much for all of your calls. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Well, Mayor Olivia Chow has called the recommendation recommended increase of 24%. That's what the city councilors are debating about whether or not they should get a pay increase. 24% too steep. And she's urged city council members to reconsider the city's precarious financial situation

when the issue goes to vote. I think that, well, I'm glad she's saying that. 24%. That's what they're voting on. And look, I do not bemoan a pay increase for our public officials. I think if you want to attract the best people to a job, or at least good, decent people to a job, then you gotta make it attractive to them to a certain extent.

And so just for context, it is recommended that the hike be, go from, let's see, an increase in the base salary by more than $33,000, from about $136,000 to $170,000. That's 24%. Let's listen to what Councillor Pasternak had to say about this. We have families, so we have expenses. I'm not saying this is the route we should go, but you know, people have to realize it's been 19 years since councillors have had a base increase in their salary. Now I'd like people to name one sector of society that has gone 19 years without a base

increase. We've got inflationary increases, but with a base increase. And of course, in there, there were even some salary freezes where we didn't even get the inflationary increase. So I think in fairness, it's a worthy debate. Not for nothing, but I can promise you that I made a heck of a lot more money 20 years ago than I do today. That's the reality of the industry that I work in. Every single time my contract was up for renegotiation in TV, I was asked to do more with less.

It's just how it is. So, look, the value of our city councilors is important. I'm not gonna deny that. However, I don't remember this being a ballot issue in the last election. Just like I don't remember Sankofa Square being a ballot issue. There's a whole lot of stuff that just sort of popped up that maybe should have been a

ballot issue. And I wonder, and I'll ask you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK, do you get worked up by this? Do you agree with me that if you want to attract talented people into politics, the compensation needs to at least be halfway attractive? Or do you think that yes, they should be coming, but 24% all at once is a bridge too far? Look, a good compromise would be, maybe you shouldn't be the ones voting on this

because we're pretty sure, I know which way it's gonna go. Maybe this should be put to the people in some form of referendum. I know that would be expensive in and of itself. But look, I think it's 24% all at once when when we've had double digit property tax increases two years in a row. It's not a good look. It to me, it just it smacks of tone deafness. And I think there would have been a better way to message this. But again, I want to stress that I think our public officials should be properly paid. I will say one more thing before I take any calls at 416870 6400 or 1-888-225-TALK.

It does feel to me that the path to a 24% pay increase for our City Councillors is fairly easy, versus the pulling of the teeth every year seemingly to raise the salaries of the Toronto Police Service. Those are always questioned and scrutinized. This one is like, well, they deserve it, so we're going to give it to them. Ah, you know, if we are looking at the value to society, it to them. I you know, if we are looking at the value to society, one is more immediate to me than the other. Just going to say it. Chris, welcome to the show. Where do you fall on this? Yeah, thanks for taking my call that as a Tron Tony, and I'm just going to say this, I do agree with you that, you know, people should be compensated fairly, and there should be an increase in pay. But that increase in pay should be also locked into performance based as well. Not just simply

like, you know, let's have a debate and then let's vote us ourselves a great big question for you, Chris. What would those performance metrics be? I'll take one set one simple one here. The bike lanes in Toronto, the gridlock in Toronto, right there, every city councillor should get a failing grade. We're not able to move around in a very congested city. We're not even, we're not in New York City, we're not in Los Angeles. We try and pretend, go to those cities, go to those cities and see the way infrastructure works.

Yep. But let me tell you, let me tell you where it gets confusing for me, Chris. If that's how we're going to decide how some of their pay is raised, what happens? So the bike lanes go in, but there are some city councilors who are against them. So do those people get a raise? And the ones who support the bike lanes

and cause the congestion not get the raise? How does it work? It's unfortunate you're part of a group, right? So that's why. I mean, this is democracy How does it work? It's unfortunate you're part of a group, right? Yeah. So that's that's why I mean, this is democracy is it not? So this way the people that work hard to fight, they have to fight even harder to convince why certain public funding for bike lanes shouldn't have taken place in the first place. All right. Hey, Chris, thank you very much for that that sort of

that thinker of a conversation. I appreciate it. Cliff, welcome to the show. What do you make of this 24% pay increase for potential 24% pay increase? Morning, Brian. Morning. No, Ben, sorry. That's okay. Here my question, as I was explaining to your screener, if they're saying, and this is what

they're saying, it's 19 years old now they haven't had a pay increase. I agree with that, and that's a bad thing, because the average people got is 20% over 19 years. But are we saying that they were making $124,000 19 years ago? Does that not say that they've been overpaid for 20 years? Well, no, they weren't making that, because it's gone up with inflation, right?

So whatever the inflation rate was over the past 19 years, eliminate that and that's the number that you would have. I don't know what that number is, but my guess is it would have been probably around somewhere in like 95,000. That's a total guess by me, but probably around something like that. Okay, and I agree with that too. But remember, in addition to that, they collect money for expenses for staff or whatever they want. When they go and take a customer or somebody else for dinner, they pay the bill and it's tax payers paid, not them. They get all this money is for themselves. So he's saying that yes, that we have families too. I agree on families too. We're making $100,000

a year 20 years ago. That's a hell of a lot. No, listen, everything's relative, right? And if you look at it based on the average Torontonian, yes, they're doing pretty well. But I don't think that that's necessarily the bar we should be looking at. I think the question is, how do we attract smart, dedicated, passionate, creative people to the job? And you don't do it if you concede that politics on its own is already a sacrifice, to add the sacrifice of having to take a massive pay cut from whatever job you're coming from, that all of a sudden it's not as attractive a proposition. So listen, that's my two cents, but I thank all of you for your calls. I really appreciate it.

There's no limit to how far criminals will go to cover their tracks. But investigators will go even further to uncover the truth. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News. This season on Crime Beat, I'll take you from the crime scene to the courtroom and inside some of Canada's most high-profile cases and some you've likely never heard of before. Search for and listen to Crime Beat on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.