The Ben Mulroney Show - The political panel dissect Canada's wokeness on full display

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance  Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate advisory .  Former vp WestJet If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank.

Deposit it and wait for it to clear. Your pay really meant something. Payroll was incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor,

a national day to recognize payroll professionals? I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives? We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the next day

The payroll party to the nation. A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan. You know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What?

And I'm sitting in the backseat. The whole way? The whole way. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. It's the middle of the week. It's the middle of the show. And we are joined now for our this week in politics, midweek panel by Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park, as well as former

senior aide to the Minister of Finance, and Andy Gibbons, Andy Gibbons, rather, a principal at Walgate, and a former VP at WestJet. To the both of you, I say, happy Wednesday. Bonjour, Moncham. Andy, we're going to start with you because you worked at WestJet. Make this make sense. You can no longer recline a seat on WestJet. Yeah, I read, I laughed at this one because the media are so divorced from

the reality of Canadian consumers and I'm going to give a full defense of WestJet here, even though I don't have to, you know, customers want different products. I don't know why this is even a story on CIBC on CBC. Some people want to recline. Some people don't. Some people want more legroom. Some people want the cheapest seat. Some people have a bag. Some people don't have a bag. And if you don't like that product, don't buy it. Yeah, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. If people don't want to recline there, if people don't want to recline their seat, they don't have to recline the seat that reclines. If they want to recline that seat, they can. This is not that, Andy. This is taking away something that people are used to and saying

if you want that, there's 12 seats up front that cost more. I don't buy the taking away thing. There's a lot of, there's a lot of research that goes into these decisions. And some people want to sit in a zone on the airplane where they know that guy in front of them is not going to recline a seat. Ben, you sound like a recliner. I'm a guy who likes to. have the option to recline. Okay. Yeah. Hey, Regan, we won't spend too much more time on this.

Regan, what do you think? Well, I'm, I was just as shocked as you were. I mean, WestJet is a great Canadian business story, but I never thought they would be against freedom and freedom of choice for consumers to be able to recline their seat, particularly as an Alberta-based company in a conservative province and its founders with its conservative roots. So I found it very strange.

I also, though, Atlanta, have some sympathy for Andy's argument that, you know, the airline is merely trying to respond to market-based realities. And if they're travelers and passengers and guests on the WestJet Airbus want to fly and not recline their seat, then they have that right. But I don't think the freedom of choice should be taken away by those who are on the plane. And I'm with you, Ben. Maybe WestJet needs to think this through a little bit more. And look, I'll say one last thing.

Perhaps you might be right. If people want to recline, they've got Air Canada. And if they don't want to recline, they've got WestJet, perhaps that's the differentiator that we're going to have moving forward. But let's move on from that. What do we think of the Donald Trump peace plan that's been endorsed by Benjamin Netanyahu as well as a number of Arab states? There are some people that are pushing back on it. Do we think that this thing has a chance to find purchase?

Andy, we'll start with you. I think it has a chance based on what you said, Ben, which is the number of countries that stand behind it. And like, let's reflect that we're talking about a peace plan on the table that Israel likes and has agreed to. That's a good step forward. That is very positive. And Trump and Nanyahu should get big credit for that. I'm a little bit shocked at the commentary that basically goes something like, well, Hamas hasn't agreed to it and Hamas isn't at the table. I don't know that any country that's been attacked

and responded the way Israel has the idea that Hamas hasn't signed off is a peculiar thing but I think it does stand a chance and I think the commentary actually has not been over the top and I think it has a good chance I do I think it's a really positive step. Regan there are those who will say that you know, when you're offered peace with a gun to your head, it's not really, you don't really

have an option. What do you think Hamas is going to do here? Well, first of all, Ben, and I always say this when I'm on your show and we're talking about Israel, is that it's been more than 700 days and there are still hostages and bodies that need to be returned by Hamas to the families of those affected. And they must be brought home now. And I think any peace plan, and we saw this reflected in the peace plan that President Trump put forward must include the returning of hostages and those who have been murdered by those terrorists. You know, I think Andy's right with respect to Hamas, you know, whether there's a gun to their head or not, Hamas is a terrorist entity who started this most recent time of the conflict.

And so it would take, and it's always going to take leadership, and in this case, US leadership, to bring peace to that part of the world. You can draw almost a straight line bend, believe it or not, with a few squiggles in it. between President Clinton's plan, which he announced in the Rose Garden on the south lawn of the White House, to where President Trump is today. And President Trump has many critics, but, you know, Andy said this last week, and I think it bears repeating, no president in my lifetime, perhaps maybe Bush, senior, being the exception, has worked harder at bringing peace to the world. And this is just as consequential President Trump bringing this peace plan, and hopefully it comes to fruition for the world as it was when President Bush worked with your father around the fall. of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. So I think Hamas will reluctantly get to the table and accept this.

You know, it was always going to take U.S. leadership in the Middle East and to bring peace. It's going to take an international coalition of the willing. There's going to be need to do some disarmament, nukes, the lot in that part of the world to bring peace. And this is a foundational, fundamental part of it. And President Trump, I believe, deserves enormous credit. And I think in the end, Hamas will come to the table and sign up. Well, I think that, I mean, I think people need to level set and remember that in warfare, there is a winner and there is a loser.

And this is what we're really looking for here. I think a lot of people are looking for and should be expecting is Hamas acknowledging terms of surrender, right? That's how war ends. It doesn't end. Yes. Yeah, that's what this is. This is not a negotiation amongst equals. And for those who are saying, well, Hamas hasn't been given a choice.

Hamas deserves no choice. Hamas has lost this war. They will be, they will further be pummeled by Israel, were they not to accept. But this is not a negotiated peace between, at a stalemate. This is one side, yeah, go ahead. You're exactly right. Couldn't agree with you more. And I think Hamas has had tremendous damage done to its apparatus by the Israelis with

the support of other like-minded nations. And I think it's important that what you just said is reflected going forward as this issue is communicated. How long it takes to get there in terms of a full surrender, we'll see. But this is a foundational and I think the right step forward. Yeah. Last word to you, Andy. Yeah, I mean, after the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, it was FDR that said unconditional

surrender. Yeah. They didn't sit around and say, well, are Japanese going to agree to these terms and all of this stuff? I mean, that's where we are. And, you know, Nazi leadership was in Nuremberg after the war. They weren't be sought after to endorse a peace plan. Yeah.

And Hamas should have the same fate. Yeah. And I think it's incumbent upon, you know, level-headed people to remind the world. This is how it's supposed to be. And you're creating a fictitious resolution. If you're expecting that Israel should want or take. anything less than what we've just described. All right, we're going to start on this next topic very shortly,

and then we're going to pick it up after the break. But I was really taken aback by what I read in just a few days ago, where there was a job posting at Dalhousie University for a tier two chair in AI. And it was open only to self-identifying women with disabilities. And I thought to myself, in 2025, as we are embarking on one of the most competitive intellectual races in the world, the race to lead in AI, it feels like Canada is hobbling itself in the starting, at the starting gate, just to show the world how progressive we are. I wonder what your assessment is, Regan. Well, you always give me the fun ones to start with, Ben. I'll say a couple of things.

One, I identify as a six-foot-five NBA basketball player, but that doesn't mean I get to play in the NBA. The reality is, Canadian universities in particular, but academia writ large across the world has been a cesspool of left-wing activism. And this research posting is exactly consistent with the kind of crazy, nutty, performative, quote-unquote, progressive ideals that have been pushed down the throats of Canadians, Americans, Brits, people all over the world for the last 30 years. I suspect that, and I believe that the public is much further along than where academic

human resources job post writers are with respect to what is required to complete a job. And I just think it shows in this case, and Dalhousie is a wonderful university in Halifax is a great town. It actually just shows how disconnected from reality it is. All right, we're going to leave it there. You're going to pick that up right after the break. We've got much more to come on our this. Week in Politics panel with Regan Watts and Andy Gibbon. Don't go anywhere. That's coming up right after the break.

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty. It's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control, and not talk about how it's affecting you but the truth is you're allowed to feel overwhelmed you're allowed to say i'm not okay right now and trust me i have been there whether it's the state of the world stress at home or just feeling like you've got to have it all together and have all the answers you don't have to hold it in better help is here to help with the world's largest network of licensed therapists they've already supported over five million people you can connect with a therapist online from wherever you are no wait list no office visits

and it's not the right fit you can switch any time it's time to put your mental health on the agenda. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Mulruni today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash Mulruni. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of crime beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to my good friends, Annie Gibbons and Regan Watts. All right, before the break, we were talking about sort of the performative nature of some of the hiring practices in academia. A January report by the Aristotle Foundation for Public Policy. reviewed 489 Canadian academic job postings across a set time period. Of those, the foundation determined that 98% contained some condition that, quote, directly or indirectly discriminated against candidates.

We've already talked about this Dalhousie move. And at Dowell, they say that preferences will be given in hiring processes to candidates who self-identify as members of one or more of the equity-deserving groups listed above. Guys, we are in a moment in time in Canada where in order to make up for the lost decade under Justin Trudeau, in order to get out of this hole, and in order to compete, in order to thrive as a nation, we need to be perfect in every aspect of our game. So I'll go back to you, Regan first. Are we setting ourselves up for success with decisions like this at the academic level? So, Ben, I want to correct you, it wasn't the Trudeau decade. was the long national nightmare known right i'm sorry to trit tm this is yes this is a this is a hangover from that and i should start by saying i support science and i support universities and i

actually support federal funding into science because it's it's a it's a net benefit and net positive generally speaking over the long term for the country however the dei alphabet brigade and what they've done to canadian universities and in particular the canada research chairs and these quotas is absolutely insane. Nowhere else in the world does this type of performative BS fly. And you see it changing in the U.S., it will eventually change back in the United Kingdom. You know, what Dalhousie is looking for is a unicorn. And that was my daughter's 14th birthday yesterday.

And if I could find a unicorn, I'd love to give her one, but I can't. And I think we need the Dalhousie and the rest of the university community to really get with the program here. Gad Saad from Concordia was at the House of Commons, I think it was last week, talking about AI positions at Waterloo. where I think, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he talked about the position only being open to women, transgender, gender fluid, non-binary, or two-spirited candidates. I'm not going to swear because it's live radio, but what the heck does that even mean?

And so we should be getting the best and brightest. DEI is dead. Woke is dead. We want progress and perfect should not be the enemy of good or great when it comes to hiring the best people and doing the best research. Listen, I subscribe to everything you said except that woke is not dead. It is in Canada, it is, it is fighting for its life. Perhaps it's in its death rattle or perhaps it's been lulling us into a false sense of security.

But I've said that if there is a final battle for sort of the woke ethos, the Stalingrad battle will be taking place in Canada. Andy, over to you. Yeah, I mean, I think the faculty lounge is like that province in the hunger games. You know, it's the last place where there's a vestige of wokeism. I mean, how divorced are these people from the reality of Canada? Think of all the professional women we know in our life. Think of Regan's amazing daughter, who's 14. Does she need a special carve-out in a job description?

I mean, it's absurd. This is Canada. This is a first world G7 country. Is that really required? What's lacking here? It's just, you know, for everyone that is not sitting in a faculty lounge, it's absurd. Yeah. And I think we should just have comfort in that. And I think shining the bright light is going to is going to make big changes because governments who fund these institutions are not going to find that acceptable. And they've been sort of skirting along. And no one's really paid attention. But this is a big story this week. This is the kind of story people pay attention to and talk about at their kitchen tables and at the coffee shops. All right, we're going to close out this edition of the midweek, this week in politics panel with our midweek political play of the week.

Regan, you can pick any politician, any government anywhere, and just call it out for being good, bad, smart, or dumb. Well, I have two. The first is President Trump. I think he has had yet another banner week, particularly with his peace plan for Israel. Despite his critics, he plows along and does his very best to, and I genuinely believe this bring peace to the world. He may be unorthodox, he may not be everyone's cup of tea. You can't ignore him, and he's absolute box office when he talks about issues. And I think he's had a very good week with this peace plan, particularly on the eve of Yom Kippur,

which if you compare that to what the government of Canada did with respect to Palestine and recognize the state of Palestine, it's a landmark move. The other politician I want to tip my hat to is Nigel Farage in the United Kingdom, who was outstanding and continues to lead in the polls by speaking to issues that real voters care about. Very good. And Andy, over to you. I have two.

The first is Prime Minister Carney for the way he handled National Day of Truth and Reconciliation by not going surfing in Tafino. That's a pretty low bar, Andy. No, but I mean, but not just not going surfing, the way he spoke. It wasn't virtue signaling. It wasn't over the top.

And in my neighborhood, children, including my son, were wearing orange shirts all through the neighborhood. And I think that's the way we should be honoring that day. And I just think, you know, not having, I think his style of leadership yesterday really shone. And was a clear demarcation from the past. And then the second is a bit, a bit off topic for the segment. But it is, you know, a lifetime.

achievement for a good friend of many in the conservative family and all Canadians, which is the passing of Nigel Wright. Yes. Someone who was in politics for all the right reasons and an impeccable gentleman of immense quality and achievement. And, you know, if Canada had a thousand more Nigel rights, imagine the country it would be. So just in honor of him and his contributions, I think we should, you know, just pay deep respects

to him and his contribution. to the fabric of this country. Well, yeah, thank you for bringing him up. I was fortunate enough to spend a little bit of time with Nigel, and he was a wonderful man. But let's go back to what you just said about Mark Carney and how he honored Truth and Reconciliation Day. I agree with you.

I think part of, I think talking about building this country with First Nations buy-in so that First Nations can participate in the growth and the success and the financial windfall that awaits us all if we can all row in the same direction. I think that is messaging that everyone should be able to get behind. You're always going to have holdouts. You're always going to have people who say, we already give them enough money.

That should be enough. No, no, no. We've got to break that paradigm. And we have to create a new dynamic whereby First Nations view every initiative in this country as them possibly being stakeholders. And they can help. Ben, yeah, go on. I totally agree.

And I totally agree with Andy. I just want to say, for the record, for your listeners and viewers who comment on YouTube, I see, I'm not the only guy who likes Mark Carney on this panel, and Ben and Andy have joined me in the litter. I am not in the litter. I am not in the litter. I just challenge anybody to look at what I say as reflexively anti-Karney. When there is a reason for me to be pro Mark Carney, I will throw my way behind him entirely. And what he did yesterday was a really good refreshing break from, I agree.

The performative nonsense of just saying things, but creating. an environment where First Nations can participate in the success that is this country, I think is a smart move. And he is bringing a new dawn to Canadian federal leadership. And he continues to get more right than he gets wrong. And I think Andy is absolutely right. He gets more right than he gets wrong as he pulls more right than he pulls left. I think that's fair.

And I think he has a good instinct for where the country is at. and Andy commenting on his tone in particular was the kind of thing that gets me purring and keep... You're in the purring, Andy. Andy, I'm going to give you the final word on this. Well, now everyone knows that Regan refreshes the YouTube comments on our segment.

Every five minutes, so now it's going to explode today. But I think on a serious note, the difference that Mark Carney, you know, Mark Carney is on a great honeymoon because of the man that he replaced. Let's be real about it. But that's not going to last forever. And I just thought yesterday was a real, a real good day for him and for the country.

And it's just the way we should be talking about things. Yeah. What did you say, Ben? Like just a way with the performative. Yeah. And let's just celebrate and honor it as communities and as people. And I think that's just the type of people we are. So let's have a, our politics should reflect the type of people we are.

Yeah. And yesterday was a good case for that. Gentlemen, always a pleasure. Enjoy the rest of your weeks. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Ben. I run to the chaos and Survivor is chaos. Wednesday is on Global.

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