The Ben Mulroney Show - The Political Panel -- the Trump social media earthquake!

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Guest: Warren Kinsella, Former Special Advisor to Jean Chretien and CEO of the Daisy Group GUEST:   Michael Burns, CEO of Canada’s Valour Games If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. Tony's show and welcome back to our, it's Friday, so it's time for our all-star panel for this week in politics. Please welcome Warren Kinsella, former special advisor to Jean-Cretzian, CEO of the Daisy Group, and Michael Burns, the CEO of Canada's Valor Games. To the both of you, I say happy Friday. Happy Friday. Let's be here. Let's talk bail reform. You know, we heard the conservatives put forth their own, their own bill. I think we all knew that it wasn't going to be adopted by the liberals.

but they did promise we promise you that the conservatives are going to like our own version of this when we come forth with ours and about a couple weeks later that's exactly what they did and we on this show said listen we like what we're reading in the headlines but the devil is in the details

and it turns out the devil is in fact in the details and we find the devil lacking at least from my perspective a lot of symbolic not necessarily sweeping changes in the bill minor tweaks like to the consecutive sentencing rule with very narrow crimes that it would apply to And we've got a lawyer on the panel. So let's go to you, Warren.

What do you think? Is this rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? No, it's big. Is it significant? Yeah, and you can tell by virtue of the fact that the Tories aren't complaining very much about it all. Law and order is a conservative issue, as you know, liberals are better on health care. And it's big. The question I've gone, you know, I looked at some of it.

And it's like, I'm not sure that's going to pass a charter. challenge. Like the criminal defense bar, there's some very capable criminal defense lawyers in this country from BC to Newfoundland. And they're looking at that package and saying, oh, I can knock that out. I can knock that out. Really? So what what parliament has to say is obviously of great significance. It's our supreme legislature. They're the ones responsible for mending the criminal code. But all of this stuff is going to get tested in charter challenges. That's number one. Number two, very quickly. In fairness to the feds, whether it's the Tories in charge or the liberals or whomever, their responsibility for criminal justice is just a criminal code. The funding of the

criminal justice system where actually the biggest problem exists is at the provincial level. They pay for the salaries of the prosecutors. They pay for the salaries of the judges. They build the jails. So if we don't have room to put these bad guys who shouldn't be out on bail, that's more of a responsibility of the provinces than the feds. And then municipally, of course, Ben, as you know, they pay for the cops. If we don't have enough cops, that's a seat. So everybody's got a role to play here. Everybody can share in some of the blame.

But I have to say, I was surprised. I think it was big. Yeah. Well, so I'm going to defer to a war on almost everything he said, with the exception of the demonstration of that it's big is that the Tories don't have a lot to say. because they are, Mike Burns, because they are the party of law and order, at least traditionally,

then they're probably recognizing that any leap forward, however big or small, is something they have to get behind. And so long as the situation tomorrow, legislatively, is better than today, then it's something they have to,

they have to work towards and they have to be part of. Otherwise, they'll be viewed as obstructionist. Ben, go J's go. Yes, let's start with that. Yeah. Look, like, I actually think Ottawa finally got part of this, right?

Yeah. Where I do worry is around young offenders. I think that you just can't shrink the adult system and call it youth. Rehabilitation, I think, still has to be the goal and not revenge. Otherwise, I think we're funding short-term safety and a cost for long-term failure. So it'll be interesting. I think Warren raises some good points around charter challenges going forward. but I think this is definitely a move in the right direction.

All right, well, I'm glad that Warren brought up charter challenges because I wonder whether lawyers who make that their stock and trade are going to be looking at Saskatchewan in the coming months because Scott Moe announced that he's taking the bold move of putting forth in the fall. The Saskatchewan party is going to table the Compassionate Care Act, which is essentially going to be a new law that says that if you are, are, if your life has been destroyed by drugs and you are in the throes of addiction,

and if you are being controlled by the drugs, then you don't necessarily have the wherewithal to make informed decisions. And we're going to make one for you. And we are going to, we're going to force you into treatment. And I cannot believe that in Canada in 2025, you know, civil liberties groups won't have a problem with that, Warren. No, they will. Absolutely. But, you know, to some extent, he's right. And I say that as somebody, I did a magazine piece a few months ago where I sat down on the ground in the dirt with fentanyl addicts, entire families who are addicted to fentanyl in Belleville near where I live.

And, you know, they said to me, Warren, you don't understand this drug. Yeah. The first time you take fentanyl, you're hooked. That's it. Yeah. Your entire focus of your life. So, you know, to me, to deal with fentanyl, which is the biggest problem in urban centers, Yeah, meth is the problem in rural centers is you've got to have housing for these people.

They're not, it's been a program is not going to work with them. And they've told me this. A program's not going to work if they're living on a sidewalk. Yeah. We need to create housing. And why, you know, city, like the city of Toronto, every time some millionaire decides he's going to or she's going to build, you know, these little tiny homes for some of the homeless people, the city comes along and tears them down. Like it's bananas to me. we need to like this is a big big problem and the one thing we need to acknowledge is the enormity

of the impact of fentany on the human body fentany is the most addictive drug we've ever had in our history that to me so mo is right some people are going to welcome treatments some people are going to welcome getting out the street those that don't there's going to have to be some compelling and the addicts i've talked to agree with that yeah and look when how many times have we heard Mike Burns. We've heard addicts say, like, during, I mean, I've watched enough of that show intervention where, where the interventionist says, you aren't talking to your brother or your sister. You are talking, the drug is in control. The drug is in control. So that, the drug is going to fight back. And, and, and, and in the, in the situations where the drug leaves that person's

system and they have a moment of clarity, oftentimes they'll say, thank you. I, I, I wouldn't have done this without being forced into treatment. And so I know that we live in Canada, Mike Burns in 2025, where charter challenges seem to be popping up every single day on almost every issue. But this is definitely one where I do hope that even if a lawyer makes a compelling case, a judge says, no, no, no, not on this one. I agree. I mean, look, sometimes you've got to step in when someone can't save themselves.

And I believe that forced treatment isn't a problem. punishment. It's compassion. If someone overdoses every week, leaving them on the street in the name of choice, it just isn't humane. It's neglect. And I agree with porn. We've got to make sure that they get the treatment that they need. But when they're out, that we provide the support around them, including housing, counseling, and job support programs as well. Exactly. And, you know, we were talking with the mayor of Barry on this show just yesterday. And just a drug addiction and homelessness are not, on the Venn diagram, they intersect, but they don't overlap completely. But even he said with the homelessness issue in his city after declaring a state of emergency,

he said, once we get people into housing, it's still a two-year process. It's at least a two-year process where we work with them to transition them from being somebody who would self-identify as unhoused or homeless into a productive, integrated member of society. It's not an overnight thing. And if it's, if that's a pure play, a pure homeless play, then I got to think it's a five, 10 year program sometimes with people who are in the grips of drug addiction. Warren, I'll give you, I'll give you the last word on this. Totally agree with that. And Barry is one of the cities, you know, one of these smaller cities that's actually had to declare a state of emergency because they're, they've been

unable to deal with the issue on their own. So, you know, the mayor is right. And like, guys, we're seeing this problem, not just in places like Toronto, like in Bancroft. I've been in Bancroft and they've got a fentanyl problem. So it's everywhere. And, you know, it's an all hands-on-deck situation and governments need to step up. Some of them look like they're prepared to do that. All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break.

But when we come back, we're going to talk about the battle between the Titans in Canada and the United States and how it's been halted. I'm not talking about the World Series. I'm talking about trade talks between Canada and the United States. United States. And who is to blame? Well, if you listen to Donald Trump, he'll say the ghost, the ghost of Ronald Reagan. We'll explain next when our panel returns right here on the Ben Mulroney show. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty. It's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control, and not talk about how it's affecting

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BetterHelp, help.com slash Mulruni. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and a lot of us woke up this morning to the earthquake that was caused by Donald Trump's late night truth socials where he said he took great umbrage to the Ontario government, although he said it was the Canadian government,

summoning the spirit falsely under false pretenses of Ronald Reagan to chastise the Americans for their use of tariffs. And because of that, all trade talks are officially cut off. He described us as cheaters. We're trying to influence the Supreme Court. Mike Burns, try to make sense of the nonsensical here. Look, Ben, honestly, I really have to wonder what Premier Ford thought he was trying to achieve here. You know, spending $75 million of Ontario taxpayer money attacking the Trump administration, you know, it's akin to poking a bear and being surprised when it bites. Yeah. I don't know, man.

I don't understand. You know, Trump did what Trump does, and he slammed the door into the talks. And I guess the question I have, was this coordinated with Ottawa and the other premiers? Yeah, and that's, like if Ford's, what was diplomacy, it failed. Well, that, see, I don't think it was, I don't think he was trying to achieve diplomacy. And I, you know, when I hear that, it's like, that's like poking a bear. It's like, it's like, I want to choose my words carefully, but I'm reminded of the abusive spouse who says, you know, your behavior made me do that. Your behavior made me, uh, be violent towards you.

And it's like, no. And it's an overreaction as far as I can see. Warren, I've got a theory here. I've got a theory that Donald Trump is chumming the waters. I think in anticipation of this Supreme Court challenge to his tariff power that's coming in November, I think his lawyers told him it's not going to go as well as we think it's going to go. It's going to be hard. We don't think we've got a victory in the bag.

He is already chumming the waters. He is priming the pump. He is telling everybody there's somebody to blame. There's a cheater afoot. It used to be Hillary. It used to be the DOJ. It used to be the FBI. It used to be Google.

It used to be meta. The Wall Street Journal, you name it. It's his playbook. Because when he sees a failure on the horizon, if he can claim someone cheated, then it wasn't a failure. And so that's what I think is happening here because he didn't have a problem with this ad

when he saw it 10 days ago, seven days ago. I agree with your theory. I'm not sure I agree with our friend. But trying to figure out Donald Trump's mind is a good way to lose your mind. My advice people always. My rule is pay attention to what he does, not what he says. So this could be a head fake.

We'll find out. But the one thing I can tell you is somebody who's committed the sin of putting together negative ads. I put together attack ads in my youth for the Liberal Party of Canada. Attack ads. The reason why guys like me love them is they work. A $75 million ad buy quoting the former president of the United States who's beloved in the Republican party it was working yeah it was the ad buy was in republican districts those republicans were getting

in touch of the white house saying this is moving public opinion i'm very nervous about this trump leaned on the reagan presidential center to issue that bs tweet that they did it was completely false they they lied about what president regan said in that 1987 address at camp david i think it was They lied, and Trump used that as a pretext to go after Canada. Yeah, and from what I say, he said he is loath to use tariffs, but is a power he thinks the president has to have, and that power shouldn't be circumscribed. The difference is Ronald Reagan came from it from position.

I was like, I hate using tariffs, but I will if I have to. Donald Trump comes from it. Like, I love using tariffs, and I won't stop even somebody tells me to. And so that to me is the biggest difference. also the fact that a U.S. copyright law says anything a president does or says it's it's anyone can use it and alter it. That's part of the law. So to me, and nobody had a problem with this in Canada, with the exception. Well, it was a five minute speech. You can't run an ad that's five minutes long. It's crazy. Yeah. But the, you know, I've agonized over ellipsis when I'm

putting together attack ads. So you have to be faithful and make sure that what you were quoting is representative of what the speaker originally said, and it is. You check CNN this morning, New York Times. Every media says, actually, the ad faithfully quotes President Reagan. Yeah. So it was having an impact. Trump last week when the ad started running said, oh, I actually understand why Canada is doing this. Yeah.

So Mike. He's saying he's objecting because it's working. Yeah. So Mike Burns. And I think when you see somebody cut off all trade negotiations for these sorts of reasons. It just reminds me we're dealing with somebody who is incapable of acting in good faith. He is incapable of being an honest broker. And that just tells me that Mark Carney's got his work cut out for him. However, you did bring up another good point that I think we should pull

at here is it seems like there is a lack of coordination between our provinces that we're the de facto leaders of this team Canada thing for a very long time and the new prime minister who probably wants to assert his leadership on that file, but some of the provinces are maybe having a tough time giving up a little bit of that control, Mike? Yeah, listen, Warren might know better than I do. I just, I've got to believe, I mean, I want to believe that Carney and the premiers knew that these ads are going to be running. I think, you know, a team Canada approach is the only approach that's going to work. And, you know, as I've said on this show before, Trump's unpredictability is.

his predictability. You know that this guy is going to go to these types of tactics. And yeah, I mean, what what the prime minister faces right now in the premiers is probably one of the greatest challenges we've we've had to deal with in decades having to negotiate with Trump and his administration. It's not going to be easy. Yeah, it's not going to be easy. And like I said, I think this to me reminds me of every single time he has seen a failure coming. I mean, He didn't know he was going to win the first election. And so he was blaming what he thought was going to be a loss on a whole bunch of people until he won. But it's never a loss for him because somebody always cheats.

And in this case, it just feels like he dusted off the old playbook. And he sees he's got to fight ahead of him at the Supreme Court where he's going to lose some powers that are not his in the first place that he took. And he's going to have to give a whole lot of money back. And that changes, that changes the prospects of how he leads moving forward. And he doesn't like that. So if I guess Canada becomes the cheater here. Worn. Bingo.

Yeah. Yeah. Bingo. No, absolutely. Ben Maroni for prime minister. Oh, God. No. Ben Morrini for tinfoil hat man.

No, but you're right. You're right. But it does, like I said, it feels like a head fake to me. Let's just wait to see what he does. Is the prime minister yelling at Premier Ford on the phone? this morning possibly but i think we all know that ontario would have shown the ad to the feds before yeah and a 75 million dollar ad by 75 million they would not have run that thing without testing it and the testing would have shown in groups that it was going to have resonance with the

american public you don't put 75 million behind creative unless you know it's going to have an impact yeah it was having an impact and that's why trump is bitching about it on truth social last And yeah, and he said himself, he saw the ad. And while, you know, he disagrees, like, he doesn't disagree with that. If I were Canada, I would be running that ad too. He didn't have a problem with it until something changed. And Warren, I think you're probably right, that it was working and the tide was turning. And so he had to get, he had to change the focus of the story to Canada is a bunch of liars and cheaters.

And now we're trying to affect the Supreme Court. Okay. It's just, it is what it is. But his unpredictability, Mike, is, you say that is his predictability, but I just, I don't know, I don't know what Mark Carney. I didn't used to feel sorry for Mark Carney because he said he wanted this job. Now I feel sorry for him. Yeah, listen, I mean, look, this is, it's, it's very difficult when, when you're dealing with somebody across the table who's behaving this way. And you never know what you're going to get.

And I, like I've obviously have said, and others have said, you know, listen to what he says, give it 72 hours and then see what he's done. Yeah. And which is basically what Warren has said. Let's see whether or not his words or his actions, you know, line up and give it 72 hours. He's going to be probably on to something else. All right. Well, listen, we only have a few seconds left. So I'm just going to ask, where are we watching the game from, gentlemen?

Well, I'm up at the cabin tonight with my dad. dogs, and I've got to figure out how to watch it online because I don't have TV up there, so I got to stream it. That's what I'm doing. And I happen also to be up north. Fortunately, we've got cable. So I'm likely going to be watching it from here unless I get a call from a good friend who wants to invite me to the game.

Well, I would pick up that call as well. And I will just say, the weirdest is people watching outdoors, like watch parties when the people who have tickets to the game are watching. indoors. Go J's Go. Thank you gentlemen. Well, enjoy the weekend. It tastes like fear, anxiety, all at the same time, but delicious. Only one will be crowned. It's tough.

One of the hardest things I've ever done. Two minutes! Two minutes! Canada! Top Chef Canada. All new Tuesdays. On Flavor Network, stream on Stack TV.