The Ben Mulroney Show - The political panel -- Trump vs. Kamala part 2. Who gets the headline today?

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

ANDY GIBBONS   Principal at Walgate advisory .  Former vp WestJet Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank. Deposit it and wait for it to clear.

Your pay really meant something. Payroll is incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Payroll professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor? A national day to recognize payroll professionals.

I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are that payroll professionals play in our own? play in our lives. We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the nation. National payroll party? Precisely.

Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the backseat. The whole way? The whole way. Canada's oil sands produce the energy the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country, like hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply chain, and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more. You see, we're building more than a strong oil sands sector. We're helping to build a stronger Canada. We're Pathways Alliance, six of Canada's largest oil sands companies working together to help grow Canada's economy. Learn more at pathwaysalliance.ca.ca.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and it's Wednesday, which means it's time for our This Week in Politics panel with Andy Gibbons, principal at Wallgate Advisory and former VP at WestJet and Regan Watts, founder of Fratten Park, Inc, former senior aide to the Minister of Finance, the late great Jim Flaherty. To the both of you, I say happy hump day. Hello, ma'am. How are you? Very, very well. all right, so we're now living in a world where Canada has recognized the state of Palestine. And I think it's important to note that 28 U.N. member states do not recognize Israel, 15 members of the Arab League, as well as 10 non-Arab members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. I think it's important to point that out because this rush to recognize a state that's not ready to be a state.

meanwhile there are 15 there are 28 countries that are not recognizing a fully fledged democratic state is quite telling of the world we're living in real quick i do we want to spend too too much time on this but regan i want to start with you are you still purring over the prime minister what are your thoughts on this um this gambit well then a couple of things first and i would be remiss and i say this every time. We talk about Israel, the Middle East, is to remind people who are listening that there are still 20 hostages in captivity held by Hamas, and they must come home now. I'd also like to wish a Happy New Year to my Jewish friends who are listening to the show. With respect to the Prime Minister, you know, this is a rare fumble for me, and I call it a

fumble because there appeared to be no real major domestic pressing issue that would cause him to do this and the timing of it seems a bit of a fumble too announcing the recognition of a Palestinian state on the eve of Hashanah, which is the Jewish New Year, it seems like a very strange and politically mismanaged rollout. I realize sort of there's broader forces at play here, the UK and France and other countries who are out trying to manage the world on this issue. But for the prime minister, it seems like a fumble and not one that he's made a lot, but one that I think he's going to come to regret over the coming months as political issues continue to emerge. I found striking was after the announcement, Hamas put out a press release.

And in that press release, there was no mention of the hostages. there was no mention of any of the preconditions that had been set out that, you know, we blew past. Instead, they said the work has only just begun. Now it's about marginalizing and isolating and weakening Israel because they're all war criminals. And to me, that was the most telling thing that came out of this because you're not dealing with good faith actors on the other side of the table. Andy, you there for me? Yeah, I am. Sorry, that's what's weird.

That's what's weird about this one. Historically, I think, is usually conditions have to be met before you get something. Before you get the recognition from the international community, whether it's partially or a lot of them, why is the card before the horse? Why are, why is this country recognizing a state before its own conditions have been met? That struck me, I think that's historically significant and telling. The second thing that struck me was the enthusiastic reaction of our Minister of Foreign Affairs in the UN General. assembly she stood up applauding and you know she comes from from she has a riding where this is a

very controversial topic and very important to her but the enthusiasm with upon which she received that statement from her leader in the assembly was was notable to me yeah because it is a very delicate thing domestically it's a delicate thing internationally and i just i thought that was a bit of a departure from the moment yeah if you believe that canada should should have done that, Ben. If you believe that Mark Carney is making the right decision, you also do recognize that these other things need to be done. So I was struck by that enthusiasm from her, to be honest.

I thought that was a bit off. Well, let's stay with the UN, because a lot of this happened with the backdrop of the UN and a different world leader this time, Donald Trump. And I'm going to put the question to you. And it's a good faith question. Has there ever been a better speech at the UN? Let's listen. I ended seven wars, dealt with the leaders of each and every one of these countries, and never even received a phone call from the United Nations offering to help in finalizing the deal.

All I got from the United Nations was an escalator that on the way up stopped right in the middle. If the first lady wasn't in great shape, she would have fallen, but she's in great shape. we're both in good shape we both stood and then a teleprompter that didn't work I mean it's just it's just masterful

but there was amongst the non sequiturs and ramblings and new turns in intellectual thought there was some moral clarity the American position is very clear and hasn't really

changed that much in a very long time. And Regan, what do you think? Obviously, I was tongue in cheek about this being the best speech. But the moral clarity of the president on this issue is a stark contrast to, I don't know, it feels like the political games we're playing with our relationship with Israel and Canada. Look, I thought the president was remarkably consistent and coherent yesterday. You know, it also has to be said, you know, like him or lovum, you know,

President Trump is absolute box office and you cannot miss, you know, you cannot ignore him. I thought his comments in his speech, and he covered a wide range of topics, and you obviously talking to the Israel-Palestinian issue, I thought his comments on Ukraine were quite mature. And what do I mean by that? There was, you know, a number of folks who were concerned that he was a Russian puppet. I believe that's what Hillary Clinton and the Democrats wanted Americans to believe in 2016 and again in 2020 and again in 2020. that Donald Trump was going to do only what Putin wanted. And I thought his pivot in particular on Ukraine, as well as his observations around the Europeans

who have enabled Russia to continue this war through their purchase of natural resources from the Russians, I thought was a very mature evolution in the president and his thinking on some very big issues. And so the box office speech aside, and I do believe, and I'm one of these people who who subscribes to the theory that perhaps the UN was trying to sabotage the president yesterday, both with the escalator and the teleprompter. I've been to international meetings, Ben. Those things, the teleprompters in particular, at the United Nations, don't go down.

That is one of the things the UN can get right, and one of the few things to get right, is they get teleprompters ready for the despots and dictators who get up and speak there. And for the president of the United States to have his teleprompter go down, it struck me as a little bit suspicious. and I hope the United States government holds the UN to account on that one. All right, Andy, I'm going to let you start. And if I have to interrupt you, don't worry. We'll pick it up after the break.

I think it's like everything, right, Ben? I mean, if you hate him, you hear a crazy man. And if you understand why he was elected, you see, like Regan says, the bits that make sense. He has a point. When he assembled all of these leaders in the White House and the work he's doing, where was the UN? Where has the UN been supporting him?

his legitimate peace missions. I mean, he is conducting legitimate efforts for peace. And in my time as a political observer, I've ever seen someone so derided for those efforts. And I just don't get that. And I think people have to move past it at some point. I mean, you know, Obama was hated by the right and all of that. And the left always hated how much he was hated.

But when he made legitimate efforts as a president, that they weren't dismissed just because of people's hatred of him. And so that's kind of sad, but they do themselves a disservice his haters by not focusing on the legitimate points he's making in there and staking out American claim. And for his supporters, it's just of another validation.

Yeah. So round and round we go. And then there's the contrast with Kamala Harris, which maybe we'll talk about later in the show. We will. We will. And one other point that I want to bring up before we go to break. And because it's my favorite story.

that came out of this recognition of the state of Palestine. Upon becoming a state in the eyes of the UK, Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, as now the leader of a nation, asked for $2 trillion in reparations from the UK for the pain and suffering that they caused during the British mandate from 1917 to 1948. So there you go.

Kier pay up, buddy boy. The state of Palestine has come calling. When we come back, we're going to continue on these conversations, including Donald Trump's, what are we talking about? You know what, there's more coming up. Don't go anywhere. This is Ben Mulroney Show.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and welcome back to this week in politics, our midweek panel, and we are joined by Andy Gibbons and Regan Watts. Guys, let's jump right back in. All right, if Mark Carney is the embodiment of the resurrection of the liberal brand, then what do you make of our minister of public safety, Gary Ananda Sangaree, because he's having a really bad, he's having a really bad few months. You'll remember that he had to, as the public safety minister, he had to recuse himself from issues related to the Tamil Tigers, which is, I mean, that's his job.

But never mind that, now he's caught on tape, shooting holes in the, in a policy that he is out there defending, saying that the gun buyback program is too expensive. It's not going to solve crime, and we're only doing it to get votes in Quebec. So, Andy, what do you do with a problem like Gary? Well, I mean, he's a minister of the obvious now. I mean, he said quietly what everyone knows out loud in a reverse way.

You know, if this was so important for the country, Why has it taken the liberals five years to get on with it? It's pretty cynical, and I mean, he will not be public safety minister for long, obviously. And I think this week and his performance and the way they've handled this is really good news for conservatives. Because we're past the era where Mark Carney had a nice honeymoon, and every time the government appeared before Canadians, it was scripted and high level and reacting to big. moments now it's the nitty gritty day to day of governing and they're going to be you know what i mean they're like they're going to have their bad weeks and this is one and then you've got the other thing we always talk about ben which is the trudo hangover yeah it's a trudeau hangover policy it's a

trudeau hangover minister yeah well that's right yeah that's right yeah that's right himself from all of that to get to move forward so i think it was all bad bad bad yeah and a reagan you know i was talking to somebody earlier today and they're like well you know this prime minister has no problem cutting cutting loose policies that don't work but this is one of his

right this is one of his and it's very it's really made in the in the image of a lot of Trudeau era

policies it's high high on a performance quotient and high on a cost quotient and very little to do with

solving a real problem well it's interesting Ben with liberals and gun control and government action around guns

your listeners particularly the boomers who are tuning in this morning will remember of the gun registry that was launched by the infamous Alan Rock when he was justice minister that turned into a billion-dollar boondoggle. Liberals can't seem to figure out how to do

gun control properly, which suggests maybe they should take a different approach to the policy altogether. I suspect that Andy's right with respect to the minister. I don't believe he'll be a minister for very long. I think the way this issue has been handled, though, is a reflection of a call of weakness in the political ranks in the Carney government. And, and, By the way, you saw some of this with the Trudeau government towards the end of their tenure, which is these people, these political staffers, haven't got the first clue on how to manage an issue. You know, and I railed last week about Christopher Freeland on her departure from cabinet as being mediocre. Well, this minister and the political staffers who are managing this issue are beyond mediocre.

And I think what Canadians are seeing is a poorly handled issue on an issue, or issue management case, pardon me, on an issue that really only matters to a handful of people. And Andy is right. The Prime Minister does need to distance himself from the Trudeau era, and I can't figure out why he didn't do that with his policy, but I do expect him to do it with this minister. Having said that, while it is good news for conservatives, and Andy is right, I don't think this performance from the minister

is going to register with Canadians, and it's unlikely to move public opinion in any meaningful way in my view. I think you're probably right on that. All right, we are at the midpoint of this segment, so we are going to take advantage of it to have our midweek political play of the week. You can pick any politician, any government, anywhere, and just call it as being good, bad, smart, or dumb. Regan, you go first. Well, so, Ben, I've been looking forward to this. Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris, has been on quite a book tour lately, talking about 107 days

and her time as a presidential candidate. The play of the week for me is just how ridiculous and stupid she sounds when she's doing her interviews. You know, She talked yesterday or two days ago on Rachel Maddo on MSNDNC about, and she was asked about Pete Buttigieg, who was her preferred candidate for vice president on her ticket and why she did or didn't pick him. And it was, you know, I know she's in California and probably prefers low-calorie meals, but she's serving up work salads all over the place. And to tell you, though, Ben, I am going to buy her book because it brings me happiness

when liberals and Democrats fight each other. You know, as much joy as I get from the Psalms or Ephesians in the Bible, I get from Democrats and liberals fighting each other in books. So my play of the week is for Kamala Harris, for being Kamala and doing her very, very best to remind us why we dodged a bullet when she was not elected president of the United States. Andy, you got to follow that up? I'm the same.

I'm the same. I watched Kamala Harris's interview with Rachel Maddow, and she asked him about why she didn't take Pete Buttigieg, an excellent or you know what guys before you continue we have the audio of it so let's listen yeah it's unbelievable that that's that he couldn't be on the ticket because he is gay my point as i write in the book is that i was clear that in 107 days in one of the most hotly contested elections for president of united states against someone like donald trump who knows no No floor to be a black woman running for president of United States.

And as a vice presidential running mate, a gay man, with the stakes being so high, it made me very sad, but I also realized it would be a real risk. Yeah, so there you go. So she says he's gay. She didn't hire him because he was gay. And then turns around and says, yeah, I couldn't use him because he was. was gay yeah i mean it's hardly profiles and courage here and and i thought i thought fast forward ben to a democratic primary now reminded of the last one she ran and she didn't even make it to

iowa so imagine the next democratic primary and someone who's you know and it's a contest of who's going to stand up for values and all the things that they believe in she is just going to be savaged for this i mean if it was 150 days would he have been vice president if it was 200 days would she be vice president? It's an unbelievable and Rachel is looking at her, probably her only supporter left, looking at her like this is the most insane thing

I've ever heard in a media interview. Yeah. It was an unbelievable moment. And Regan, what does it say to you that she said that she couldn't she couldn't bring him onto the ticket because Donald Trump knows no floor? In other words,

like you're literally letting the other guy determine who's going to be on your ticket because he's so mean, you can't have the guy you actually want. That, to me, is an abdication of leadership and abdication of communication and just a failure on every front. I totally agree, Ben. I happen to think that having a gay man on a ticket would be a great opportunity for the United States to continue advancing human rights causes around the world. I mean, whether the United States is going to elect an Indo-Black woman and a gay woman, gay, white man as president, vice president, that's a political discussion.

And I think it's for that country, it's worth having because when the United States leads and breaks down glass and barriers, that's positive for the world. However, Donald Trump and President Trump is not the one who sets the floor. It's actually the Democratic Party. And history shows that liberals in this country and Democrats in the United States, they are the ones who sling mud and throw dirt worse than conservatives do anywhere. Is President Trump capable of colorful language? Absolutely. But was he going to make Pete Buttigieg's sexual orientation an issue during the campaign?

Absolutely not. And I think that's just another abdication of leadership from a former vice president who will remain former for the rest of her life. Andy, the last 20 seconds to you, my friend. Yeah. And look what, but look what happened. Had she chosen Pete Buttigieg, she would have been authentic. And authentic and true leadership is what resonates with people. Yeah. Right? And instead she chose a governor of Minnesota. tried to pretend he was a Republican, had him go out hunting. It was completely inauthentic.

It didn't work, and people rejected it. So she chose an authentic bath. Well, thank you both very much. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weeks, and we'll see you next week. Sands produce the energy the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country, like hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply chain, and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more.

You see, we're building more than a strong oil sands sector. We're helping to build a stronger Canada. We're Pathways Alliance, six of Canada's largest oil sands companies working together to help grow Canada's economy. Learn more at Pathwaysalliance.ca.