The Ben Mulroney Show - The real threat to Canada auto isn’t Trump. It’s the government forcing EVs

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Guests and Topics: -The real threat to Canada auto isn’t Trump. It’s the government forcing EVs with Guest: John Turley-Ewart, Contributing columnist for The Globe and Mail, a regulatory compliance consultant and Corus Radio Contributor -Sir John A. Macdonald statue at Queen's Park to be uncovered after 5 years with Guest: Craig Baird, Host of Canadian History Ehx If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the show. And every now and then, there's an article that an opinion piece that grabs my attention. And when I read a title that says the real threat to Canada's auto isn't Donald Trump, it's our own government forcing EVs on us, I gotta read this and I gotta talk to the guy who wrote it. So let's do just that. And welcome to the show, John Turley, you're contributing columnist for the Globe and Mail. He's also a regulatory compliance consultant and a chorus radio contributor. John, thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Happy to be here. Okay. So you're not suggesting that Donald Trump isn't a threat. You're just saying the real threat is something else. Agreed. Essentially, my view based on the reading I've done, the experts I've talked in the auto industry, they feel that a resolution will come

with negotiations with Trump. But the real concern for automakers is the zero emission vehicle mandate that came out of California initially in 2022. And that was followed here in Canada under Justin Trudeau and that Mr. Carney seemed to have doubled down on in the liberal platform. Yeah, you know, we were promised under Justin Trudeau what he called evidence-based policy and in the face of changing evidence, the policy should change. And I think there was a lot of enthusiasm

10 years ago about the potential of an EV future, but that is not materializing nearly as quickly as they would have hoped. And so in the face of a sort of lagging market and a, you know, a slowing interest and adoption rate of EVs, and let's not forget the fact we don't have a national electrified like ability to charge your car wherever you want, like that evidence, that policy should change, that mandate should change.

And my argument is it's going to have to change. And so what you had in the United States recently was the House of Representatives, both Republican and Democrat, vote down the California waiver that allowed them to put in place the mandate. The Senate also voted down that that waiver that allowed California to put in the mandate. And the President of the United States will be signing that off. General Motors yesterday announced a near billion dollar investment in a VA plan in upstate New York. Honda is not producing you know, had stepped back from zero emission vehicles. Toyota stepped back from zero emission vehicles. Mustang Mustang Ford, who emission vehicles. Mustang, Ford,

who makes an electric Mustang, says that they were losing about $135,000 US per vehicle. And it's just not just me that is saying this. I point to an economist at the University of Guelph who he's written an excellent report in the Journal of Canadian Economics. I know, Ben, you probably have that by your nightstand every night. But his modeling shows that without price parity, that means the price between a gas car and a zero emission vehicle being about the same, you're going to wipe out the Canadian auto industry. So I think Canada has no choice. Yeah. Well, that's what I was going to ask. Read the tea leaves for me. Tell me what the future looks like in Canada. Five years after that, 2035, when the mandate that every new car in

Canada has to be a zero emission vehicle. What are the knock on negative effects of that that we will experience? Well, I mean, I think what we're seeing is probably a shift towards hybrid. You see Toyota doing that. A lot of manufacturers are doing that. We feel that they can reach a customer base through a hybrid, but we're not getting rid of anytime soon gas powered vehicles.

We've been engineering them for 125 years. Electric vehicles is something we've been building for, you know, the past 20. Uh, you're not going to get that kind of comparability. So when I look down the future, I see more electric vehicles, but remember they're high end, right? Um, and you know, if someone is willing to, you know, spend $60,000 on a vehicle, they may wish to have a zero emissions vehicle. Nothing against that. Absolutely go for it. But if you need a $20,000 vehicle, it's most likely going to be gas powered. Yeah, no, 100%. Although there is listen, the wild card and all

of that could be are those Chinese vehicles that come in at what 15 or 20% cheaper than their North American analogs? Well, even even much cheaper than that. And so here's the thing is you need to really understand the Chinese manufacturing might and prowess and what it's built on, Ben. One of the things that people forget is that China has got a floating population of 300 plus million people who work in factories. Just in time, low rights, low wages, working 12-15 hour days, and they're supporting the high-tech engineering that you see in some of the electric

vehicles that come out of China. So really, you know, we can have cheap cars from China, but we will have no auto industry here. And of course, what we're really doing is supporting the Chinese takeover of one of our most strategic industries. So what do you think it's going to take then for this government to wake up to the reality that is clear to people like you? Well, I think General Motors and Ford and Chrysler are going to say if you want us to produce cars in your country, you got to get rid of the ZEV or, you know, we'll just continue to invest in the United States and we'll make cars there and you can find, you know, somewhere else to get your cars from. And what's it going to take because you're right, I think we want a healthy electric vehicle market and but but people want

what they want. They're voting with their wallets and their wallets are can only can only afford Internal combustion vehicles at this point, but what's it going to take in your mind for the price of those? electric vehicles to Eventually more or less fall in line with their internal combustion equivalents Well, I mean in part Canada could play a role in that through its rare earth mineral mining, if we ever get there, where we can reduce the cost of the batteries, but it might not be electric then it might be hydrogen. And so, you know, I wouldn't How far off are we on that? How far off are we on, on a mass market hydrogen car? I would say we're, we're, we're well, well away from that. But just as we're well away from a mass market electric vehicle,

unless you use the you know what China does, and we're not going to do that. So I would say like, we're going to see electric vehicles continue to develop and grow, I would say by 2050, you know, you're gonna have a lot on the road. Yeah. But we may also have hydrogen vehicles, and we should not put all our eggs in one basket. Well, I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking, like the government should take the win.

The adoption is there. People enjoy the electric vehicles. They're beautiful cars. By and large, sort of the experience of riding in one, I don't own one. But the experience of being in one, I feel like I'm in the future. All my friends who have one, by the way, all my friends

who have one, it's their second car, right? So you're absolutely right. It's a certain type of person who can afford it is adopting it. But for those of us who can only afford one car, we're not going down the route of the EV. But I don't understand the sort of this single minded, it's all or nothing. It's all EVs or nothing. When the market is clearly telling the government what direction they should be going in. Right. And so it's interesting you say it's very emotional. I found that I had more than 400 comments on this particular column in the globe. And some people, you know, really attach environmental stewardship to the zero emission vehicle. I get that. But on the other hand, if we have to be realistic in terms of the technology, and the ultimate

impact this change will have on the overall global climate. Well, I've also heard like that, that's a rather reductive perspective to have. I've always been told if you truly care about the environment, then what you should do is buy yourself a three or four year old Toyota, because it's already it's already paid for its carbon footprint. And it's been it's been built to the highest emission standards possible. And meanwhile, the we still don't know what to do with the batteries

of these electric vehicles. They're just sitting in a depot somewhere collecting dust. And they start with a huge carbon footprint. So it's and they say the worst people for the environment are early adopters of Tesla. Because as soon as there's a new one out, they get rid of the old one, they get another one. And so anyway, that's my two cents, my friend. Yeah, for sure.

And I would say to most regular people are just trying to figure out how to get through their day, how to afford the insurance for their car, nevermind the gas and everything else. So, we have to remember there's an affordability crisis right now in Canada. People are having a hard time making their mortgage payment. The last thing we want to do is make it harder for them to get through and from work. John Turley, Ewert, thank you so much. It's a great piece. Really thought-provoking. I appreciate your time today.

Thank you so much, It's a great piece, really thought provoking. I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Ben. It was great. All right, Canada, time to make your brains grow because our next guest always comes armed with facts that most of us don't know. Please welcome back to the show, as we do every week, Craig Baird, the host of Canadian History X. Craig, welcome to the show. For having me. So before we jump into the story that is going to intrigue us all, I wanna talk to you about the statue of Sir John A.

That has been boxed up in front of Queen's Park, the seat of government in Ontario for five years for fear of, you know, he's a controversial historical figure and the fear has been, we gotta put him in a box or somebody's gonna come and throw paint on him or even worse, topple the statue. And the question I have for you is what do you think could be done to the statue, could be added, could be improved, so that those who feel insulted or triggered by the image of our first prime minister would be more at ease and more comfortable with? Well, I think with Sir John A. MacDonald and pretty much most of our early prime ministers, there are good aspects to them and then there's controversial aspects to them.

So I really think what would be a good option is a plaque and that describes, he built the CPR, he helped bring Canada into confederation, that kind of stuff. But at the same time brought in the head tax and you know, brought in things that were not so great for the First Nations. So just something that outlines a lot about him so that people can form their own opinions about about him and his history and his impact on Canada. I agree with you. I think a plaque with more historical context should be enough. I would hope it would be enough. I suspect for certain people it will never be enough you. I think a plaque with more historical context should be enough. I would hope it would be enough. I suspect for certain people, it will never be enough,

but I think that's something that a lot of Canadians would be willing to live with. I also, you know, I heard that over the course of the past few years, in an effort to draw attention to the residential school part of his legacy, people have been leaving children's shoes lined up in front of the box. And part of me thinks, you know,

I wouldn't mind if bronze shoes were added to the sort of the podium of that statue, along with a plaque. I'm absolutely willing to not only concede, but acknowledge that his past is complicated and parts of it are shameful. But adding to it, I think could be a middle ground that hopefully could help Canada move forward past the nonsense of just trying to pull down

every statue we disagree with. I would agree. I would say putting something like bronze shoes in front because then people will question why those shoes are there. And if you have a plaque, they will read and start to learn more. I think people have to remember that the statues themselves are history. I mean, most of these statues are over a hundred years old and, you know, were created by some of our greatest sculptors. So they are part of our history. And by putting things like plaques or the bronze shoes or other things with them, we're helping to add to that history and explain it and explain who that person was. All right, we're going to move on to a story that again, every week, man, I don't know. It's something about the way you tell these stories. I don't feel like an idiot for not

knowing these things. And I'm just pleased that I learned about them later. But frankly, I should know this. Like, tell me about the kidnapping of John Labatt. Well, everybody knows Labatt, you know, Labatt's Brewery. We've all had Labatt Blue at some point in our lives. And back in the 1930s, it was a massive company. And John Labatt, who was the grandson of the founder of Labatt's, he was one of the richest men in Canada. And on August 14th, 1934, he was actually driving back to his office in London, Ontario from his cottage on Lake Huron. And he was forced off the road and abducted at gunpoint. And this became a massive media story. It was huge in the 1930s. Like all of Canada was transfixed by this. And so he was actually chained up to a bed for about three days while the kidnappers were waiting for money. But because there was so much press coverage related to this,

they actually started to get spooked. And They just ended up taking him towards Toronto and gave him money for a cab and told him to go to the Royal York. That's where his brother was. That's where a lot of reporters were because they were very much worried that with so much coverage that the police were going to descend upon them. They ended up getting caught anyways and arrested and spending quite a few years in jail. But it really had a bad impact on John Labatt because until he died in 1952, he spent most of his life as a recluse after that incident because he was very much worried about being kidnapped. It was a very traumatic experience for him. I mean, I'm sure he wasn't diagnosed with PTSD, but I'm sure that's what he had. Hey, let's listen to a snippet of the kidnapping of John Labatt on

Canadian History X. One of the men gave John a pen and paper and dictated to him as he wrote a letter to his brother Hugh, which stated, Mr. Hugh Labatt, we are holding your brother John for $150,000 ransom. Go to Toronto immediately and register in the Royal York Hotel. We will negotiate with you from that point. We advise you to keep this matter away from the police and the newspapers so as we can return your brother safely. You will know me as Three-Fingered Abe." That $150,000 would be about $3.1 million today. John was then blindfolded and put in the kidnapper's vehicle while another man drove

John's car to London and left it near St. Joseph's Hospital. The reason this hospital was chosen was because John's wife had been a patient at the hospital with an undisclosed illness recently, and his car parked there would not raise any eyebrows. It was clear the kidnappers had done their homework on John LeBat. Once the car was dropped off, Hugh LeBat was telephoned and he was told where the car could be found. At first, Hugh did not believe the man on the phone, but details about what his brother was wearing, the make and model of the car, made Hugh realize this was not a prank call. Detective Thomas Bolton was assigned to the case and with Hugh they rushed to the location of the

car. As for John's wife Elizabeth, the family didn't tell her John was kidnapped out of worry of how she would react. John, on the other hand, was taken to a cottage along a lake. As the car drove down the road, the blindfold became loose and John was able to catch glimpses of passing objects. And little did the kidnappers know that their actions were about to take the country by storm. So they got spooked with how much press they were getting and feared that the heat was going to come down on them. And that's why they released them to the hotel, right?

Yeah, absolutely. This was kind of like the early days of mass media. And so I don't think a lot of people were used to the media firestorm that erupted around this. So and then obviously there was a trial. We learned that they were arrested. They spent 15 years in jail and a fourth was killed in the United States. What did we learn from them in the trial? I mean, they clearly had a plan. They want $150,000, which was a ton of money. They seem to have a big plan. But I guess, like, did we learn anything else about who they were or why they

were motivated to do something like this? Not really. I more or less what they were essentially doing was they were looking for the richest man they could find and wanting to rob him and, and hold him for ransom. And for them, they felt like John LaBatt was that person. I mean, it was the 1930s. So we're dealing with the Great Depression. There's not a lot of money. And for a lot of people, they were going to desperate situations like this.

And unfortunately, they kidnapped one of the most famous men in the country. And, you know, it's cost them 15 years of their lives as a result of it. But this family, one of the richest in Canada, had the money to pay the ransom. Are we aware, had they gone through with it, would the family have paid the 150,000? I think they were thinking of paying that 150,000, but there was also a real worry that if they paid that 150,000,

it would serve as an example for other very rich people, like say the Eaton family, one of the richest families in Canada. There was a worry that it would entice other people to start kidnapping rich people and then demanding ransom. So there was a worry of having that. And that's kind of why it did take quite a while, three days before it was eventually resolved and then resolved when he walks into the Royal York and all these reporters are reporting on it, no one notices him right away. And then suddenly they see him and it's just as it's bedlam in there as people

are trying to get an interview with the man who was kidnapped. Now you said that he was, he led the rest of his life as a recluse, but did he also hire private security? Did he beef up security around his homes? Yeah. In his home, his cottage, and then his home around London. And obviously he had security around his family as well, because he was worried about them. Even his brother, Hugh, had security. So it was something that really did impact him quite a bit, because what he felt was just the safety of a drive

from a cottage to his office was disrupted and three days being chained to a bed. He doesn't know if he's going to live or die. So it definitely had a massive impact on him. And lastly, and very quickly, if the kidnapping was such a media sensation, was the trial also publicized far and wide? Oh yeah, the manhunt for these people when they were arrested, the trial, everything,

was a huge story at the time because a lot of people were transfixed by this. This was kind of the, we call it like the trial of the century at that point. And it was just, it was something that spread across Canada and it was front page news constantly. Professor Craig Baird, host of Canadian History X. Thank you very much, my friend. I feel my brain grew just a little bit. My knowledge of Canada deepened because of you as it does every week. Thank you so much, my friend. Thanks for having me. much, my friend. Thanks for having me. VIP Days of Our Lives set tour, a helicopter ride over LA, and so much more. Watch Weekdays at One and look for the weekly code word to enter.

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