The Ben Mulroney Show - "The Road Between Us". The doc-maker, the star, the TIFF controversy

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

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This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's be honest, we've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And, hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody. who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment.

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Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulrooney. That's better, help.com slash Mulrooney. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank. You didn't even check your pay stuff.

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Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat. The whole way? The whole way. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show.

A real pleasure to have you joining me as part of this conversation. For those of you who know my own personal history prior to this show, I had a very proud career in entertainment television in this country where I covered the Toronto International Film Festival, like my life depended on it to the point that now I try to enjoy it sparingly. But every now and then there's a story that crosses over beyond entertainment, beyond the glitz and the glamour into the worldwide news. And this next subject is exactly that. There's a movie that was set to premiere at TIF called The Road Between Us, a documentary that covered the story of IDF Major General Nome Tibon retired, who on October 7th, essentially wanted.

wanted to find and take care and protect his family. And Barry Averich, the director who's been, who has produced and given us some incredible movies in his own right, was there as they retraced his steps and told his story. This was a movie that was going to premiere at Tiff until it wasn't, until it finally was again. And I'm so pleased and proud to have here with us, filmmaker Barry Averts. Nice to see you, Barry. Thank you, Ben. Pleasure.

And IDF, Major General Noam Teabon, thank you so much for being here. as well, and for making the trip to Toronto. My pleasure. Okay, so let's start at the beginning. Let's start with the genesis of the film itself. Well, first of all, I thought we're here to talk about the David Foster document. Is this the wrong show? We have done it.

We did that back in the day. We did that back in the day. And that was a great movie in its own right. Ben's father was responsible, the great Brian Moroni, responsible for discovering Michael Boubley at his sister's wedding. Anyway, that's history. I mean, as a documentary filmmaker, you're obsessed with the story. It's always about the story.

I'm not a political filmmaker. If you look at my work, it's all over the place in terms of entertainment and scandal and whatever. I love pop culture. This story, as a father, and you appreciate this, resonated with me because, you know, should you get a text at 6.30 in the morning that your family is being held hostage and surrounded by terrorists, what would you do? Yeah. You might call 911. You might worry.

You might watch TV. but it's none of that. This man got into the car with his wife and spent the next 14 hours finding a way to save his son, his daughter-in-law, and grandchildren under the age of five, two of them. So that's what resonated with me. What would you do if you're the father

or the mother in that situation? And that's when I called Nome and said, I'm sure I'm the ninth in line for this pitch. And I know the answer is going to be we're talking to somebody else, but let it be me that tells this story. Yeah. And look, we've, we've seen versions of this in Hollywood, like dramatic retellings of stories like this. Taken.

Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. And so this is a story that has resonated for so many people. Nome, may I call you Nome? Of course. So when when Barry reached out, was he the ninth person, in fact, in line to have reached out to want to tell your story?

there were you know a lot of people but you know i learned a little bit about him and i understood that he's a professional guy and i watched some of his movies and i'm glad we took the right decision so you were made comfortable by the by his work and and and his work is storied and accomplished and you're absolutely right not political uh no no you let you you you're story first right It's story first, and even if this film, to some, has political overtones because of the country that was shot in, this is a film, again, as I'll always say, that from me, was wrapped in the flag of a family, not a country. That's my perspective on this, and I hope the audience finds that perspective as well. When you essentially had to relive that day, was how did you feel?

Was it more difficult than you'd anticipated? Was it, I mean, as somebody who's been in the Israeli military, I have to assume you've been through emotional hardships before. How did reliving that day compare to other difficult days in your life? First of all, you know, it was a unique day. And Israel is so tiny, as you know. So I've been in that area many, many times. I think the way that Barry came all the way from,

Canada from a totally different atmosphere to tell the story and with his right approach in many ways it make me you know get open to the story and and I think at the end of the day as I said it's a story about a family a story about a father a mother who are doing whatever they can to save their kids and I think at the end of the day this is worldwide And that's why I think it's going to be a great movie. Well, look, listen, we can take the world as it is or as we want it to be. As we want it to be, we want a film like this to have universal appeal. We want people to connect with the humanity of it.

But the world that we're living in makes it a little difficult. It's the wrong film to politicize. And if you haven't seen it. If you want to watch it and then have your own opinion, fine. But to politicize it before you've seen it, I don't quite understand. Yeah. So be it. But I think again in... But Barry, everything is politicized today. Anybody with an Israeli accent, anybody who spent time in Israel, anybody who was in the IDF, God forbid, anybody who is the idea, that will get politicized today, whether they see the movie or they don't see the movie. It is, it's, we are in an information, a propaganda war, we're in a war for the hearts and minds. and somebody looks at this and says,

oh, you're giving quarter to, you're humanizing the Israeli side of a struggle. We cannot have that. I am not going to be engaged in the conversation like that because ultimately it's just not the world that I live in. You've described that world, but I come back to the story. It could happen in any kind of.

country, and it has happened in any country. And taking this journey with Noam on that day was never a political journey. If you walked in his shoes, and as I did, again, which should normally be been an hour drive from his home in Tel Aviv to his son's home in Nakhalos, an hour, which was 14 hours, where the entire country was shut down. It is extraordinary. Every time we'd hit a junction or a specific moment where he was told he couldn't get to his son, it is the most emotional, jarring, and unbelievable time. And I think that's what the audience will see in the film. Edge of your seat of waiting to get to your family.

And I have to tell you, this man, you know, and what was amazing to me, Ben, is that every time his son's house was within reach, whether it was a kilometer or 15 minutes, he stopped to help. other people and at the risk of the clock running out. Sure. Yeah. What if he got there and his family wasn't there because he saved someone else? This man was about leaving no people behind and saving his family and other people. So we don't have a lot of time left in this segment. So I want to set this up so that this is what we talk about in the next segment.

So you've you've completed this film. You've submitted it to TIF. And of course, as a Canadian filmmaker, you would want to tell this story. You would want it to have its world premiere at the Toronto International Film. Absolutely. Okay. You've secured that, right? Yes, I did. So you secured that. So which means the people at TIF saw the film. They loved the film enough to say this is going to be part of our 50th anniversary. They invited it. They invited it. Okay. And something happened between them saying that and then the world being alerted to this film even existing because we all learned

that it existed when we were told it was not going to premiere at Tiff. What in, in a, in a in a short period of time, what can you tell me about that interim period between them saying, welcome to Tiff and sorry, you're not going to be at Tiff? What a cliffhanger. The most emotional experience in 70 films that I've made, shattering, confusing, and yet I had no choice but to be defiant. You were defined, but I reached out to you, and you didn't want to say anything for a while. Is it because you were holding out hope that, you know, people would appeal to their better angels and they would see the light? Strategically, I felt that I wanted people to speak up on my behalf.

I might have been naive about that and that might have been, you know, a pipe dream, but boy, did they ever. Yeah. And so, you know, if I'm going to go out and be the disgruntled filmmaker, who cares? Well, we're going to talk about that next. The Road Between Us, the Ultimate Rescue premieres on September 10th, 2025 at 2 p.m. It's the only public showing at TIF, so if you want to see it, you better have tickets right now. We're going to talk about how it came to be next on the Ben Mulroney show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Let's be honest, we've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane, Hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs.

Most people get it right the first time. But if it's not a match, you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulrooney.

That's better H-E-L-P.com slash Mulroney. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hixed, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer. And hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon,

by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and I want to welcome back to the show, filmmaker Barry Averich, as well as IDF Major General Noam Tibon, retired, who is the focus of Barry's latest documentary, The Road Between Us, The Ultimate Rescue, which is going to be premiering

at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 10th, 2020-2020, obviously in two days. And this is after a back-and-forth, a very will they won't they with Tiff where the movie was set to premiere and then that premiere was withheld only for a public. Barry, what brought the film back? In your opinion, there was a lot of pushback.

There was a lot of support for the film. What is the reason in your mind that its premiere was restored? I'd like to think that the film festival decided. that on their own, that, you know, it should be shown. I mean, there's no question that global pressure helped that. I don't think, including myself, I don't think anybody anticipated the reaction that they would get globally from this. People were calling me and saying,

I just want to let you know you're on the cover of the New York Post, CNN calling to send a crew. And strategically, again, we let, you know, people speak up for the film. So I think the film festival woke up and said, okay, we can't ignore this. We better have a conversation with Barry and a dialogue. And again, Ben, if you go back to the film festival's mission statement, two critical things. We encourage dialogue and debate.

Yeah. Well, that's a film is supposed to do. Correct. Secondly, we respect and uphold the artistic freedom of our artists and filmmakers. Okay. So if we go back to that, then what is the issue here? And at the end of the day, a film festival should be about a balanced program. You look at that wall that they do, I've seen it, of their 392 films, whatever the number is,

and you look at it and make sure you got the right balance. So films should make people feel uncomfortable. There's nothing in this film that's going to make anyone feel uncomfortable if you care about your own. So that's what it should be about. and I don't mind saying it here. Cameron Bailey, the CEO of TIF, met with me on the opening night of TIF

and apologized and said, you know, the process wasn't right and I made a mistake and I'm happy to have your film here. Listen, I'm for me, I'm the type of person that if somebody makes a mistake and admits it, I'm probably inclined to just move on.

But systemically, they probably have to look at what happened at Tiff to allow for this to happen in the first place. I said the same thing to him. I accepted the apology gracefully. Many would tell me not to, but that's not who I am. But I said to him, it's about truth.

And after the 50th, you need to look at the process and talk about this. And maybe there needs to be an expanded committee that looks at films that might be controversial. But even if films are controversial, at the end of the day, Ben, I'll say two things that there was a great Broadway producer that said many years ago, when they're not buying tickets, there's no stopping them. Meaning, if you don't want to see the film, don't go. If it makes you go on the streets and, if you want to walk on the streets and yell, don't go see the film, great, no problem. And then, you know, enduring this, Quincy Jones, who you've met and interviewed, who was a great, great, great mentor and friends.

of mine said that you can't have a beautiful picture without the negative. And that's what helped me get through this. But the film festival hopefully will do its work. I believe that all artistic organizations, all festivals, whether it's film, literary, art are all under siege right now. And at the end of the day, it's about the art. What is the point in protesting art? You don't want to go, don't go. No, you, I'm sure got word. Hey, we're doing this premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival, and then you hear, hold on, don't book your plane ticket just yet. What were you thinking?

It must have been a roller coaster. First of all, I was upset because I think it was, you know, I didn't understand all the excuses. Why not? But, you know, we talked, very and myself, and we agreed on a strategy. And I think at the end of the day, common sense. and justice won.

And for me, the most important issue is not what happened and why it happened is from now on, let's look forward. And I hope as much as many people will come to see the movie, to hear the story. And for myself, you know, the outcome if on the way back home, they will talk about our story, about my family story and said, what would I do in this situation?

Right. This is good enough for me. And look, listen, not. for nothing. You have the most talked about film at the Toronto International Film Fest now. It's the Barbara Streisand effect, right? Prior to this, had this, had your film just been accepted and they had moved on, you know, we would have talked about it when it came out, as one does with a documentary. But by and large, there are other big movies with big stars whose names would have consumed the conversation. Everybody's talking about this film now.

It's great. And I love the Barbara Streisand reference, because Noam things, and if you ask him that thing, it's even better than Barbara Streis. Yeah. Do you have a singing voice? Yeah? I'm no. Singing and dancing is not my...

I got to. I see. But I love Barbara Streis. Yeah, who does it? Who does it? Got nails like butter. I love her too. But yeah.

Yeah, everybody's talking about the film. And I think that's, again, part of the dialogue and the debate as we get ready to launch the film. And people going to see it is the win here. Yeah. No, it is. But I love what you said, that this is art. And who, who criticize, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, where does it end. Yeah. Whatever they are. If you want to protest against government policy, uh, I, I get it. Uh, uh, corporate position. Fine. But, but, but art. Yeah. Where does it end?

Yeah. And so what's next for this film? Typically, movies like this, are you going on the festival circuit or is it going to be released immediately? Yeah, I mean, you know, there's, it's been endless invitations for film festivals, and that's great. And film festivals make you feel good and the audiences are great. You know, we will plan eventually for a very wide release for this film and hope that both Canadian and international. broadcasters and streamers, give this film an audience.

Yeah. Well, I think, listen, step one has been achieved. And there's only, there's only one screening here in Toronto. Why no, why no,

trailer? It's coming. Yeah? It's coming. Yeah. I think I wanted the film, you know, we live in a world,

especially with documentaries where films are seen on, on iPads, which kills me. Yeah. Or on, you know, on a television set

of some size, a monitor. This film is so cinematic. Filmed with six cameras, the terrain, the thrill, the tension is there. So I wanted the first frame of this film when people see it to see it on that screen. Then plenty of trailers. There are going to be lots of trailers. Oh, yeah. Okay, good. Well, I'm looking forward to it. It's been a pleasure to have you both here. Noam, an honor to speak with you. And I'm so glad that Barry was the one who was able to to tell your story. I've known Barry for years. I've known his work for years. I've known his character for years. And so on all those fronts, I think you made the right choice, even if there

were people who called you earlier. I wish you, and listen, I don't know what you were expecting at the premiere. Are you expecting people to protest? If they want to protest, protest. But let the audience in, let them watch the film, make up your own mind. You know, disruption makes no sense. Again, I have no issues with people protesting if they'd really seen the film and then they can protest. Otherwise, they're protesting an ideology, which isn't present in the film. It's not, yeah, exactly. And also, what is controversial today will probably not be controversial tomorrow. And so the controversy will be part of the lore of the film. It's going to be part and parcel of it, how the two of you are addressing it. And may I say you're addressing it in the most, diplomatic ways. It's head and shoulders above the tone that we're used to in this debate, and I commend

you both for it. You're not getting down into the mud, as a lot of people have made, it's a place where a lot of people have made their home on this subject. So to the both of you, I wish you the very happiest and most successful of Tiffs. I look forward to seeing the film myself, and I'm just very proud that you came into the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you, Ben. Thank you both.

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