The Ben Mulroney Show - The secret to how Calgary is building an arts community

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

GUEST:   Alex Sarian/President & CEO of Werklund Centre Guest: Dr. Eric Kam, Economics Professor at Toronto Metropolitan University If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You might be tempted to let Taco Bell's new Lux Value menu go to your head. Because 10 indulgences for $5 or less makes you feel fancy. Like you might think you need cloth napkins. Well, you don't. Just use the ones that come in the bag. Don't let the Lux go to your head. If I could have been anything else with my life, I would have wanted to be a city planner. Do you know that?

I always wanted to be a city planner. And what I mean by that is I'm obsessed with the notion of what if, missed opportunities. And after the Second World War, sorry, after the First World War, there was a massive plan to redesign a big chunk of Toronto. They called the Parasification of Toronto. And right where the four-season center in Toronto is, the Opera House of Toronto, they were going to bulldoze everything down there. And they were going to build a massive traffic circle with an obelisk in the middle of it. It was going to be called Vimy Ridge Circle.

And we were going to have broad boulevards. And the city was going to look to the future. And that never happened. Why? Because of the stock market crash. And so that's a missed opportunity. And so I'm always excited when a city starts taking seriously where it's going to be 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now and taking the necessary steps to ensure that that identity that they want, they will manifest through the decisions that they make today.

And when I was in Calgary a few weeks ago, I met some city builders who think that way, who see Calgary, not as it is today, but as they want it to be. in a few generations. And in order for a city like Calgary to take that next step, it needs people who understand that you can't just keep doing all the things you did before. Sure, keep doing them, get better at those things. But you've got to diversify. You've got to give people more options. You've got to expand and nuance your reputation.

So I'd like to welcome to the show, Alex Serian, the president and CEO of Workland Center, which is, when it is fully done, is going to be one of the most glorious cultural centers in Canada. Alex, welcome to the show. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for having me. So tell me about the Workland Center.

Tell me about the work you're doing today. And tell me how it's going to expand as the center grows. Sure. So, you know, Workland Center formerly Arts Commons has been around for 40 years. You know, it started, it opened leading up to the 88 Winter Olympics here in Calgary and has delivered on every single promise. and what we're doing now is we're expanding it. We are, we are, we just embarked on the largest cultural infrastructure project in Canadian history.

Construction has started. By the time we're done, it'll be the largest performing arts campus in Canada. And what I love about what you just shared is, this is not a story about the arts in Calgary. This is a story about Calgary. Yeah. We are part of a much bigger wave and it's not just about the arts. It's about city building. So when you say it's, it's the, when you just describe sort of the, the, um,

the improvements and how it's going to be an arts campus. What does that mean? So it means that, you know, for example, arts and culture doesn't just happen in theaters or concert halls. Arts and culture happens outside in plazas, in lobbies, in public spaces. And so in designing this beautiful new campus, which is an expansion of the facilities we already have, not only are we building big, beautiful theaters and state-of-the-art venues,

we're also building civic public spaces where people can gather on their terms and celebrate culture on their terms. And we just become the space in which to do it. And as Calgary continues to grow and diversify, we're not, you know, we're not, we're not saying this is the, this is the way the Calgary needs to go. We're creating the environment within which Calgary can grow as it wants to and as it needs to over the next several years. So tell me what that's going to mean for, if you are a theater lover, or if you are somebody who loves, loves live music or whatever. What sorts of things will be available then that currently cannot be sustained in Calgary? Well, I'll tell you what we do today and we're at capacity.

So last year alone, our facility, our Performing Arts Center, hosted over 2,000 events within 365 days. So I say that again? How many? Over 2,000 events within 365 days. How the heck did you do that? That math does a math to me. Alex. Well, we have, I mean, currently we have six theaters in our facility. We're the third largest

art center in Canada. And what Calgary is telling us is that they want more. And not only does the Calgary of today want more, but as you and I talked about a few weeks ago, we're going to see our two millionth resident probably in the next four to five years. So, so Calgary today is telling us they want more. And that's only going to get bigger as our city does. And, you know, when you think about this, we're going to have, you know, so many venues, indoor, outdoor, you know, we'll be able to welcome 1.5 million people a year onto this campus to have a variety of different experiences. And, and that's what I love about Calgary. It'll be part of the Calgary experience. Is there, is there an outdoor festival culture in Calgary? Like, I lived in Montreal, and summer is when

it comes alive with the Jazz Fest and Just for Laughs and Gras and Gras. Rampre, all these reasons for people to go outside. The Fufune Electric, like it's tons of, tons of, and then in Quebec City, they've got the Festival D'Ete-Khequebec, which is one of the biggest music festivals anywhere in the world. That's the summer one. Right now, the carnival is going on. So does Calgary have that?

And would Workland Center help supercharge something like that? It would absolutely supercharge it. And the reason I say supercharge is because it's already there, we just want to do more of it. The Calgary Folk Festival is one. one of the best folk festivals in North America. And it's in the summertime. It's one of the, it's one of my favorite times to be in Calgary. I mean, Calgary Stampede, if you choose to look at it a certain way, is one of the largest music festivals in the country.

Yeah. So there is this culture of wanting to be outdoors. Summer in Calgary is arguably the best time to be here. Calgarians love outdoors. And so having this, you know, having a public outdoor space as part of our campus is a game changer, not just for us as an organization. but I think for the average Calgarian, just wanting to have more outdoor experiences, and not just in the summertime, year-round.

Like, we do some pretty wild stuff here in the wintertime outdoors, and people are up for it. How much, when you said it's the largest investment in this sort of infrastructure in Canadian history, how much money are we talking about? And where did the money come from? Yeah, so this is, it's an incredible project. We're just shy of $700 million for the entire project. We have raised over half a billion dollars already from municipal sources, provincial sources.

A year and a half ago, we announced the largest philanthropic gift to the performing arts in Canadian history, which was $75 million from Dave Workland and the Workland family, you know, local Alberta family, incredibly generous. So all this is happening, and it's a testament to local government, provincial government, the private sector, It's wonderful watching all these different stakeholders rally behind this. And what I'll say about Workland family, you know, even though they're incredibly philanthropic, they've never given to the arts before. Right. And I think what that demonstrates and what that signals is that we're finally able to tell a story

about arts and culture that is more than just the arts. It is about, you know, the civic impact, the social impact, the economic impact, and watching it happen to me is exciting. and I hope other regions benefit from this kind of record making. When is it expected to be completed? So the new phases of construction, so we're staging it because, you know, as if this were not complicated enough, the goal is to build the largest campus without interrupting activities at all.

Oh, yes. So we want to remain open. You're building the train while you're riding the train. Oh, my God. Are we ever? So the new phases of construction open in 2028. and then once we get line of sight on that, we'll start tackling the renovation of our current facility. But ultimately, we hope to have this campus done in the core of downtown.

And it's going to just not only change arts and culture in Canada, but it's just going to change the skyline for Calgary. Obviously, the hope is, as we said, is to grow arts and culture generally. But in the interim, I'm sure that there are groups that have made their homes in Vancouver and Toronto. and Winnipeg and Montreal that may be looking to Calgary for now. Are you, are you, are you filled any nervous calls from your colleagues in other cities who are saying, hey, you're stealing our thunder. You're stealing our shows. No, what's fascinating is other cities are calling us and saying, how is this happening?

How is it possible that it's happening at the scale that it's happening and that it's happening in Calgary? So I don't think folks are nervous. I think they are hopeful and excited and eager to learn and share experiences. You know, the one thing I'll say is what I hope this changes is you have a lot of really young people in Calgary that want to pursue career in the arts. And they feel the need to move to Toronto, move to Montreal, move to the States. And to be able to think of, I mean, I literally had a woman say to me, I'll write you a blank check if you can get my grandkid to stay in California. Alex, we got to leave it there. But thank you so much.

I needed an inspiring story today and you provided it. Thank you so much. Best of luck. I hope to see you soon. Thanks. All right. When we come back, to rent or to buy, that is the question. What does top talent really want?

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Blue Jay, AI for tax experts. All right, let's try to answer the question I posed before the break. To rent or not to rent? To buy or not to buy? Those are the questions that we are posing to our good friend, Dr. Eric Cam, economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University. Doctor, what should someone be doing today? Well, Benedict, first thing they should be doing is seeking heat.

But that's another story. So if you're talking about buying a home versus renting a home, isn't this the age-old question? Yeah. Because, listen, this is almost transparent. What are the pros to buying a home? You get to build equity. You know, you have some stability with your payments,

and you have probably most important, you know, that appreciation potential. And the cons, the massive upfront costs, like your down payment, your closing costs, maintenance repairs, they're yours, and property tax and insurance. And then the one that most people don't discuss, Ben, but they should.

the market value. The market value of your house can drop. Yeah. So, you know, which we've all, we've all experienced in the past few years. Exactly. So then you go, well, maybe all rent, which has lower up front costs, more flexibility. And what do I care if a window breaks? My landlord will fix it.

Well, sure, except no equity. Your rent can go up and no control over your property. So the financial truth is, I was thinking about this. Who would I say, who should rent, right? Well, I would say it this way. How about you should buy if you're looking at this as a five plus year investment? If the market you assume can grow at least modestly, you can afford your repairs and simply put mathematically,

if your mortgage plus your taxes plus your insurance is equal or less to your rent, you're probably better to buy. Yeah. But if you're somebody who lives on a budget, like you know how to save your money, you probably don't have a huge family, right? if there's two of you. Renting could be a good idea.

And if you take the disposable income that you have and invest it in something that will yield you significant returns, you will build up a nest day. You'll build up equity. It just won't be in a house. It's very hard to do, Ben, because you made a lot of assumptions there about your investments and how well they will do. I'm a genius. No, no, no.

I'm, trust me. I'm following the what's her name what's her name the former speaker of the house for her what was her name Pelosi

I just invest in what Pelosi invested right well I'll just I'll call you Kreskin but the point is you know what this does though Ben is it does cause you to have sober second thoughts and you say to yourself

how stable is my income do I want flexibility can I afford maintenance stress and am I disciplined enough to invest the difference if I rent. And these are a very difficult questions. B, there's no one answer. Everybody has to come up with them for themselves.

Right. All right. Well, let's move on to another thing that gives people lots of stress. Taxes. Tax season is upon us, which is super fun. Talk to me about the pros and cons of doing it yourself versus an accountant or using. Oh, some people use AI, right? People are using AI for it.

And then there are services like Wealth Simple, H&R Block. So break it all down for me. All right. Well, probably something your grandfather told you and my grandfather told me is that you get what you pay for. And so a little bit of that is probably still true. Now, the ability to do it yourself has gotten easier because the government basically has provided these softwares that are very low cost. They help you learn about the tax system. And there's not a lot of need to share your personal data.

The problem is, is it's very easy to miss credits and deductions because you, you're not a chartered accountant. And so that's not a nice. So if you were a student and you, you know, you had a part-time job and you had one T4, it would be perfect. You know, these things are actually, that's what they're made for. But they're not ideal if your situation is in any way complex. So if you're living in a situation where you need to maximize deductions and credits and

you need help with, say, tax or estate planning, you are always better to go to a professional. But I hear that people have been going to chat GPT or clawed and saying, find me all the deductions I'm eligible for. Feels like that. If you have, if you use that software and then you follow it up with something like that, feels like you could get most of the way there, no? You can get some of the way there. And I love AI for different things, but it's a large learning model. And not everything it's learned is correct.

And so, and that's true. And that goes, by the way, as a student, or if you're, you're doing your taxes, not everything it's going to tell. If it takes in a lot of information that's wrong, but it takes it in often, it thinks it's right. Right. So you have to be very careful. But I do sympathize with people that flat out cannot afford to hire a chartered accountant to do their taxes. Here's the good news.

Most people don't need a chartered accountant. If they are a one or two earning household and they each earn a T4, it's not rocket science. But I would say there's a very fine line, Ben, to when you, are getting up there in income, you are getting up there in the need for deductions, and you do need somebody with a finer eye than you to do your taxes. But again, a little bit like the buy versus rent question, how much money do you have and can you afford it? And then again, not to ramble, but if a chartered accountant is going to cost you two or three thousand dollars, are you going to make that back in your tax return? All right. Let's finish up this conversation

with Tim Hortons. They say profits are up, but revenue is down. So make that, make sense for me? It's actually really simple because revenues, not to geek out, are just price times quantity, but that's only half of the scale. So when you're looking at a profit function, it's price times quantity minus your cost. And there's a lot of cost, whether it's labor or capital. So if the right side of that expression goes up faster than the left side of the expression, you're in trouble.

And the problem is that price times quantity is very simple. Either you raise your prices, which you know lowers your quantity demanded, or you pray that you can sell a lot more goods at the same price. That's kind of fixed. The problem is that the expenses to go up that are going to eat away at your profit include labor, raw materials, rent, reinvestment, research and development, or if you offer discounts to your customers. So profit itself is a very tricky thing because it depends, as I said,

on prices, quantities, and costs. So you, as a business owner, you know, it's not what you earn. It's what you spend, just like your house. You got to manage your cost to manage your profit. Or, Ben, as my grandfather used to say, revenue is volume, profit is efficiency. So if revenue is volume, so companies like Tim's, it's a volume game, right? Depending on what time of the day you go in there, there could be a line out the door. But if those same rules apply to, you know, a mom and pop,

restaurant. How are they supposed to survive? Well, it's very, very hard, and that's why so many of them haven't, because you can grow sales and still make less money if at some point your costs are rising, your margins are shrinking, or you have to reinvest heavily in your company. Ergo, it is very, very hard for mom and pop to start a company today. In fact, Ben, given the cost of borrowing, it's almost impossible. It's just, I mean, look, I want to do everything I can to support small business. I want to do everything I can to help support restaurants. It just seems like the deck is stacked against them these days. The deck is stacked against them for Ben Mulroney to help them. But the game is not stacked against them if our government, and we've talked a lot

about supply-side growth, would like to help companies get off the ground. And people say to me, well, you don't want the government spending money on anything. I would be very happy to see the government help small business get off the ground because it is the benchmark and the foundation of our economy. Hey, lastly, and this is a story that popped up before, and I apologize, I didn't send it your way. But Synaplex had their Q4 sale revenue results come out. I think they posted a $330,000 surplus or something like that in Q4 of this year.

But last year, it was 10 times that in Q4. And it feels to me like that's, that's what. worrisome for a company like Cineplex? Yeah, it's very worrisome for a company like Cineplex because all you do is say, you know, are they too big to fail? No, check out the Hudson Bay Company. Yeah. And what it's, you know,

it's just, it's again, you know, we live in a modern society where as much as you and I love the experience because we're of a certain age of going to the movies, my kids, your kids, and my students would rather stay home 10 out of 10 times and stream it.

Nah, I've been showing my kids the beauty, the magic of seeing a movie as a group. I mean, if going to see Avengers Endgame in a group and watching Captain America pick up Mjolnir, come on. If that doesn't get you excited, nothing will. Hey, Eric Kemp, thank you so much for being here. Netflix and chill, my friend. Okay, I don't think that means what you think it means.

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