The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto cast - AC deal and do socialist provocations direct Toronto policy?

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

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You are listening to the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome to the Tuesday edition of the show. Tuesday, August 19th. Thank you so much for taking a little bit of your day. We know you're busy. We know you've got lots of stuff going on. So choosing to spend some time with us, it means a lot. A couple of things from yesterday I want to highlight.

Well, off the top of the show, we should tell you, we've got a big conversation with Pierre Poliev coming up in the third hour of this show. So you'll know that he won his by-election yesterday, a resounding successfully prosecuted by-election. He won with over 80% of the vote with 213 other candidates on the ballot. So that is the people of that riding saying, yes, we co-signed this man to get back into the House of Commons. So a big conversation with him about what he does next and what he does differently than he did before. And how he gets the progressive, or the conservative party of Canada over the hump and eventually into a government. So that's coming up in the third hour of the show.

One of the things that is very important to us on the show is to mention that Javei Roy, the eight-year-old that was killed over the weekend when a spray of bullets tore through his home, tore through his bedroom and killed him while he slept. I want to mention that a community vigil is planned for Thursday outside of his apartment building at 15 Martha Eaton Way at 5 p.m. in honor of the young boy. Now, why this is important to us, we will be mentioning him every day. on this show in one way, shape, or form. If there's news to announce, we will announce it. And if there is not, we're simply going to mention his name. Because crime of this nature is a problem across the country. And if he can be, if his name can be a rallying cry for Canadians to keep this crisis front and center,

then so be it. His family wants his name to be remembered. We will remember his name. We will do what we have to do. And not for nothing. Yes, this took place in Toronto. Not the only place. There is a story in the National Post about a house in London, Ontario.

30 bullets were sprayed into that home. This is everywhere. This is everywhere. It's not just a Toronto thing. And Javei was felled in his home. And we are going to do our best to remind everybody, that his life mattered, that his life was cut short by senseless violence that is preventable in this city, in this country. And that is the mission that we've taken upon ourselves.

So there you go. Don't forget, this is on Thursday at 5 p.m. at 15 Martha Eaton Way, a vigil commemorating Javei Roy. And yes, tomorrow we have a we have an interview with the author of a new book who's also the founder of Black Lives Matter, Sandy Hudson. She's going to join us for a fulsome conversation about her new book, as well as the entire defund the police movement, want to know if her position has changed, what her values are, how she sees the world today. We're going to ask her about that through the lens of the murder of Javay Roy. We're also going to talk about the federalization of the D.C. police. Apparently, the numbers are in after a week

of federal oversight of the D.C. Police, crime is down. What does that say to you about the value of the police, the need for the police, and the funding of the police? So that conversation is happening tomorrow with Sandy Hudson. And look, yesterday, I had to be in my bond about Parks, Canada. I said a few things. And some of my, some of our listeners here took great, great umbrage to what I had to say. Here's, here's an email I received from Diane in Winnipeg. Do you miss your father or him being the limelight for you? I miss my father and I don't give a shiz if anyone would memorialize him.

Shut your conservative pie hole and get off the air. You're a self-serving egotist, much like Trump and a headache always happening. You're intolerable and to think Pierre Pollyev will be back on the show is nauseating. Go find another audience and get off Global who used to be so good and a few local shows C. J.O.B. Have still are. Yours is the worst. And I keep giving it a chance. But no more. Signed Diane. Sorry to lose you, Diane. But here's the one that really deserves some attention. And he signed his name. So I'm going to give you his name. He signed his name. He was proud of it. And also his honorifics. This is from William O'Grady, Professor Emeritus from the University of Guelph, was listening to the Ben Mulroney show this morning.

when I heard him say his quote, unquote, dad, don't know why that's in quotes, created more parks in Canada when he was prime minister than in any other prime minister in Canadian history. Did a fact check, and Brian Mulroney was in power when four national parks were created, while Pierre Trudeau was in power when 14 national parks were created. In total, there are 37 national parks and 11 national park reserves in Canada. Ben should get his facts straight. Thank you, Professor. Class is now in session, so please be taking notes, Professor.

My father is credited by Parks Canada with eight national parks. Pierre Trudeau credited also with eight national parks. Here are some of the differences. My dad was in power for under nine years. Pierre Trudeau was in power for 15 and a half years. That's professor. My source for that is the simple passage of time. So both are tied with eight.

However, Brian Mulroney also created several new national marine conservation areas. Those are like national parks in the sea. And expanded Parks Canada's northern reach in ways that set the stage for even more parks in the 90s and 2000s. So he created a framework by which more parks could be created. So to sum up, same number of parks in less time plus parks in the water plus a framework to create more. parks. So a professor, class is now over. You will be tested on this, but don't you worry, I grade on a curve. All right. So that's that. Let's move on. We're going to be talking a lot about this today. Congratulations to the workers at Air Canada, the flight attendants, the 10,000

flight attendants, who apparently have gotten a new deal. This was from just before 6 a.m., the Union for Air Canada's 10,000 flight attendants said early Tuesday it had reached a tentative deal to end the strike. And look, we don't know the details yet, but the union says they're going to know about the ratification timeline later today. And we're going to talk about this after the break. We're going to open up the phone lines. You know, my assessment here is they really, they nailed this. We keep talking, talked about with the postal strike, you got to win the hearts and minds. And the everyday person who, yes, was dealt a really bad blow, this strike. Some of them stranded, some of them trying to get places.

By and large, it seems like the Canadian public was behind the flight attendants for a couple of reasons. One, they put out a few just key points that resonated with everyone. This idea that they were forced to do work and not get paid, that doesn't sit well with Canadians. And the strike itself did not look good for airlines writ large with store. stories of price gouging, with stories of Air Canada saying that they couldn't find people another flight when they themselves could then go to another website and find a flight. And when they did find a flight, it was thousands of dollars more expensive than it otherwise would be. So on one hand, you had these flight attendants that people interface with all the

time, by the way. So we know who they are. They gave a very clear example of a problem that they have that nobody wants. And then on the other hand, you have during this strike, an example of the airlines behaving in a pretty terrible way towards a consumer. Those two things come together and they make it impossible for anybody to root for Air Canada. And let's add to that the fact that the government stepped in and essentially said, you guys got to go back to work. It was a confluence of positive messaging for Air Canada workers. So I commend them. I commend the union for doing what they had to do to get the public onside, unlike what happened with the postal workers. So we're going to talk about that with you after the break. We want to hear from you at

416-870-6400 or 1-3-8-225 talk. Do you agree with my assessment? Am I dead wrong? Let's have a chat about that next on the Ben Mulroney show. We want to talk about the victory, it seems, that was secured by Kupi and the flight attendants at Air Canada. It looks like a deal has been reached and I want to hear from you about this. Did the QPie play this right? Did the workers do what they needed to do? It feels to me like this was kind of a master class in getting what you want. I mean, they were facing, they were facing an illegal strike.

That was the position of the government. And that comes with jail time and fines. and instead they find themselves about to sign a new deal, the details of which still under wraps, we'll get those for you as soon as possible. And let's start the conversation with John. John, welcome to the show. Hello, so good morning, sir.

I call every couple of weeks, me and my wife from Oshawa here. So I find it amazing that Pepper and Patty Hidu didn't realize that, gee, there are people working that actually don't get paid for the last decade, and she's the minister. So this is a sad reflection of the people in power right now where they don't understand their portfolio. So you're working, you're not getting paid, and then they're telling you to go back to work.

I have a funny feeling that Mr. Carney maybe had a little phone call with the executive of Air Canada because he's a banker, and I'm sure they're all knowledgeable of each other's with stocks and options and stuff. I would imagine that he's been told, you know what, you've got to solve this, you're losing $75 plus million a day, which one day would pay for all this contract, get it done, get it over with.

And sometimes in life, Ben, you have to stand up and fight for what's right. I applaud them. They did the right thing. Ripping up that contract was, was, ripping up that document was an insult to their base intelligence that sometimes in life you have to fight for what's right and they did the right thing. It was a bold gambit and it looks like it paid off. John, thank you very much for your call. Take care. And look, let's play that. You know, it's, I think this is the political part of it where, listen, the government took a position. They said this was an illegal strike action, right?

And they said that after the fact that it was common knowledge that one of the grievances by these workers was that they had a lot of unpaid work. We all knew it. We talked about it on this show. It was talked about on almost every show because a lot of us were like, I mean, is it? My take was, is this commonplace? Is this a best practice? If it's not, then it needs to be rectified immediately. And so for the, for the minister in charge of jobs to all of a sudden wake up, I guess, today or yesterday and say, whoa,

I didn't know this was happening. I think this is more political theater than anything else. I think it's about rebuilding the bridge with organized labor and unionized labor. Here's what she had to say about the lengths she's going to go to now to solve for this. I've also heard the allegations of unpaid work. It's unacceptable. Nobody should work for free in this country. In fact, we expect to get paid for the work that we perform.

And that's why I've ordered a probe into the allegation of unpaid work in the airline sector. We will start this probe immediately, and if employers are exploiting loopholes in the Canada Labor Code, we'll close them. Nobody should be expected to work for free. I think everybody should like what was just said there. Again, like I said, I'm pretty sure they knew about this, at least as long as we, the general public, knew about it. And the fact that action was taken now, I think has something to do a little bit with politics, but I'm not taking issue with that. You know, the end result is something we all like and we all want. so good on them. And if they take it the step further of closing loopholes in the, in the,

you know, whatever the law is that regulates this stuff, then great. Hey, Robert, welcome to the show. Good morning and how are you? I'm well, thank you. How are you? I'm very well. Great. Considering I'm in Toronto and we're within two hours or four hours from major cities, we should basically try to hurt now Air Canada and pay them because I think we got cheated, the public, because all this is going to mean is basically our fairs are going to go up. It's no, the American airliners are much cheaper than we pay here, and this is just going to create a big disparity. I mean, I went to a month ago out of Detroit,

from Detroit to San Diego for $300 return. Yeah. We can't do that from here. Oh, no. Why? Well, look, listen, part of it, I think, has to do with the fact that our airports have some of the highest taxes and fees. anywhere in the world.

So, but we need to lower that too. Yeah, we do. But the other thing also is we are. But who's getting hurt? We are. Yeah, I know. No, no. Listen, we're singing from the same hymn book.

The other issue, though, is one that we really can't change. We're a country of four and a half time zones with only 40 million people. I know, but if the plane is full, it doesn't matter. I mean, Spirit Airlines out of Detroit could fly anywhere for a couple hundred dollars, basically. I get it. I get it. It's sort of our, listen, if somebody in Ottawa wants to tackle that, I'm good because frankly, I think one of the greatest ways to spur economic activity in this country would

be to lower the cost of how much it costs to go places. I said it last week, if it cost me $250 to go to Vancouver, I would go there for dinner, you know, just for fun one day, right? If I had the money. But, but yeah, like, it's, that's how you spur economic activity. you figure out a way to make it cheaper to travel across this country. Thanks for the call, my friend, Frank, welcome to the show. You think the union played it perfectly.

I do think so. You know, it'd be interesting to know what kind of concessions were made to get to this agreement. But the fact that the union went on a legal strike makes it, and they eventually ended up getting an agreement that works in their party, in their, their union's best interest in terms of their membership, you got to, I think I look at it from a point of view that there's egg on the Canadian government's face. The other thing is this, in most industries that I know of, like that I've worked in construction or a municipal sector of government, when anybody is in a position like these flight attendants were, where they have to be on standby, not sure whether they're going to get paid if a flight goes or it doesn't go, generally in those cases, employees get standby pay.

And I think the Canadian government and Air Canada could have worked us out quickly. If they conceded to that key point by offering standby pay, we wouldn't be in this situation. Well, thank you very much. Stand by pay is a concept I hadn't heard of before. So I thank you, Frank. And I hope you have a great Tuesday. Adam, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, Ben, thanks for having me.

So my take is that the union did play this perfectly. But I think that's also to the detriment of us, like, you know, Canada because this whole thing made the government look bad. It made the trade board look bad. It made Air Canada look bad. But like I said, my first point, it made the government look bad. And I think probably the big guy down south is paying attention to this. And it showed just how weak this government is.

You know, if a union is going to say, no, we're not going to listen to you, then he's probably thinking who else is going to say, no, we're not going to listen to the government. Yeah, listen, I think this is a little bit of egg on the face of the government. I don't know that you're right. It doesn't look good that they say go back to work. and the union says no. And then 24 hours later, there is a deal on the table. And the government essentially turns around and says, hey, we didn't know you were being mistreated.

It's not like, it looks like one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. But I don't know that this is a big problem that it's going to follow the government around or linger in any way. It's just, I think it's a misstep that, yeah, it looks a little embarrassing. But I think they'll move on from it. Adam, thank you very much for the call. Thank you. All right. Hey, we've got Barbara here. Barbara, welcome to the show. Hi, good morning.

Hi. I have a little bit of a problem with the unions putting forth what I call a red herring about not being paid for ground time. Okay. They chose that. They chose that in their last agreement. Yeah. And the $1,900 a month is such garbage. Really? I listened to an ex-exam. flight attendant lady and they can make up to $75,000 and $80,000 a year. They get housing benefits they get, clothing benefits. They get all sorts of things, all sorts of things. Yeah. So the red herring of not being paid for ground time, which was exploited by all you guys and everybody and the union, to me, was a red herring. Well, listen, I think if you compare it to what other what their analogs get at other airlines.

I mean, at Delta, you're paid the second you get on the plane. And if you sit there for three hours, then you're paid for the three hours. So there are comparisons within the industry that suggest that this is not a standard practice. What I would say is it's not a red herring. I do agree with you.

This was something that was agreed to in the last contract. And they all agreed to a 10-year contract. So that 10-year contract gave them the stability and it gave them the consistency and the knowledge that they wouldn't have any interruptions in their work, in their pay over the course of a decade. What that also does is, I mean, if you look at the world 10 years ago and you look at it today, starkly different, and they came out the other end of that contract in the whole.

That's the product of the contract, not necessarily a product of ill intent by Air Canada. By thank you for your call, and let's welcome Tom to the show. Tom, thanks so much for calling in. Hey, Ben, two things. For starters, I think there's a big problem with the government because we don't have any competition. We have any competition with our airlines. We don't have competition with our telecoms. There are two big ones I see.

That being said, a lot of people will be discouraged out saying, well, if they increase this, they increase that. These pays go up, then the cost of flights go up. But if you increase the amount of competition, you're putting more of the onus on the people in charge to find, you know, to provide a better cost point for people. But I see the only way to increase competition, because every time a new airline comes up, they run for six months and then they go bankrupt. The only way I see it in this country with the system that we have in place is to allow what they call cabotage, which is American or international airlines to be able to fly from point to point within this country. Right now, they're not allowed to do that. They're allowed to fly into the country or out of the country. But if they could fly point to point, that would allow for more competition.

do Canadians want to allow foreign carriers into this country? That's the question. If we can square that circle, a solution may present itself. Thank you all for your calls. We are going to turn the page on this conversation. We'll keep an eye on this air Canada situation. If any more news shows up, we will let you know. But after the break, we're going to look at a short video

that could explain why Toronto's mayoral office is so heavily influenced by socialist policies. Don't go anywhere. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hixed, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer. And hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat,

and ad-free on Amazon music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And every now and then, you know, we've got these segments on the show that they pop up just by conversations that my producer, Mike Droulet and I have together. And yesterday, I was walking around my house and I was scrolling through, I don't know, some social media platform, and a video hit me square in the face. Like, it punched me square in the face. And I sent it to him, and I said, we got to talk about this.

And what we're going to play for you is a bit of a TED talk given by Zara Ibrahim. She is the advisor to Deputy Mayor Osma Malik. And she is a member of Progress T.O. And Progress Toronto is, for those of you who don't know, we don't have political parties in the city of Toronto. We do have these advocacy groups that help like-minded people get elected. So Progress T.O. is a grassroots left-leaning. civic advocacy group founded to push Toronto politics in a more progressive direction, especially at City Hall, where they felt big developers and conservative forces had too much influence.

Okay. So this woman, Zara Ibrahim, was giving a TED talk, espousing her values and by extension, the values of progress, T.O. We're going to hone in on just a couple of points. Let's play this. We are the ones who let cities break. We let cities break. When a city builder sees something that isn't working, we don't ask, how do we fix it?

Because this work is hard, convincing people, even sometimes convincing myself, that process is more important than outcomes, is hard. Because we need to let go of the idea that the best solutions come from experts. Okay, so two points that we want to highlight here is we let cities break. That's the first point. And the other one is, what was the other one there? process over outcome and they're both linked right process over outcome and let cities break is that a mantra is it a slogan she's not saying it by accident no these are these are socialist terms we did the research these are expressions that are espoused by some of the most radically left

leaning people in society they're rallying cries sometimes right but this is ideological shorthand And it's important that we talk about this today because this, have you ever sat around asking yourself why it feels like everything is broken in a city like Toronto? Well, it makes sense when the leaders themselves, the influential people, the people who advise our leaders are saying we allow things to break. We want them to break.

We don't stop encampments in parks. We don't stop protests. in the streets because to do that, according to them, is a band-aid solution and it does nothing to help with the underlying crisis. So the underlying crisis of the unhoused, we're going to let that fester because we need people to be so uncomfortable that they are mobilized to our side. We are going to let people take over the streets of Toronto because the issues that we believe in, We believe that there is a genocide. We believe that there's an apartheid state.

We believe that Israel is a colonialist power. I don't. They do. We are going to give them the microphone anytime they want so that those issues become front and center for everybody. You see what I'm saying here? The reason you feel things are broken is because the certain progress Toronto

has said they want things to break. They want this to happen. They don't want to fix the potholes on the streets of Toronto even though the single mother needs to get on the road in her beat up car and she needs to fight those potholes to get to work to put money on the table for their kids because process is more important than outcome. Think about that. Process is more important.

We saw that in real time where Roman Babber, the MP, the conservative MP for Downsview. Yes. was in front of Gord Perks asking about why the city was putting a shelter where the residents didn't want it. And Gord, what was Gord? Gord was more concerned with the process. This is not the right place to be talking about that. Everybody there want to talk about an outcome and he was focused on process. Our prime minister has gone on record saying he wants to cut members of the civil service

who are more obsessed with process that we've been there for so long, they have so much institutional memory of being part of the machine that all they care about is process. He is concerned with results. If anybody is the anathema to this, it's the new prime minister.

Which is ironic. Yeah, yeah. Very much ironic. But the connection here, though, and the reason that groups like Integrity TO were created was in part because of the existence of Progress Toronto. And Progress Toronto, as soon as Olivia Chow got elected, And she got elected in large part because of Progress Toronto.

The founder of Progress Toronto, Michael Hay, became her chief of staff. The Deputy Chief of Staff also came from Progress Toronto. So they in turn are very much leading policy in this city. But I don't know if you're anything like me. But I sit around every day wondering why are things the way they are. Somebody has to make sense of it for me. Why does anybody look at drug use on? our streets, the rampant drug use, the crack pipes that we have to walk over, the, the people who are

taking advantage of, are smoking up on the TTC, the violence that we see on the streets, why is it the way it is? Well, it makes sense to me now. Because they don't want to manage the symptoms in a way that makes the underlying crisis invisible. And by the way, we say this from their perspective. I don't necessarily agree that there is a underlying crisis that needs to be dealt with in the, or I necessarily see it the way they do. This is, but they would much rather make life uncomfortable for Torontoans than then take the tax dollars that we give them and solve the problem. No, no, no. Solving the problem only essentially gives an off ramp to the people who cause the problem in the first place. So you and I, the taxpayer,

we are we're like bystanders in our own city as this social engineering happens by people on the left people who espouse these beliefs that we have to let cities break we have to and process is more important than outcome you're a taxpayer do you care about process more than outcome i'm asking every torontoian who pays an exorbitant amount of tax in this city do you care more about process than outcome? Do you want your leaders to care more about process than outcome? Because I sure is Shinola don't. Like, give me a break. And so, um, what are some of the examples you can think of of things that they have allowed to fester that they could have possibly come up with a solution to? But continue, I'm the, all the homeless encampments.

Yeah, that we have. Exactly. The tents everywhere. You can't, we can't move them because to move them doesn't shine a like on the underlying issue of affordability or you could just be a leader and figure out how to make homes more affordable. You could be part of that solution. No, no, no. You want essentially shame the people

you feel are responsible for it and we as the people who pay the taxes that fund the parks, we don't get to enjoy that park, right? What else you got? Shelters. Shelters with the drug use because we get rid of the provincial policies

that we're supposed to be moving towards a system of treatment. treatment. And yet, in the shelters, what have we uncovered? We've said this, we've been reporting on this for weeks now, for months now, about how you can get drugs, drug kits, anytime you want. Anytime you want, because that's, because to do anything else is simply to paper over a problem that somebody else caused. And so we're going to end on this. I doubt I'm ever going to get the mayor of this city to ever sit with me again. We had a great talk one time, but I don't think it went the way she wanted and I don't think I'll ever talk to her again. So this,

This is a question that I will put out there to anybody who ever finds themselves in front of the mayor. Does she subscribe to the beliefs of progress T.O.? Does she subscribe to the belief that process is more important than outcome? Is she a leader who believes that it is her job to let this city get broken? Does she believe that she must break the city? Does she believe that doing nothing is more important than acting on behalf of Torontoians? Because to do nothing highlights a problem that is important to progress T.O. Rather than simply addressing the problem so that the people of Toronto can have a better city to live in.

I think it is a fair question. I didn't come looking for this. This showed up on my news feed. This person was proud enough to put it in a TED talk. And therefore, it is incumbent for me to volley the question back to the person who wants to run for mayor again. is this the kind of Toronto that she wants to lead? Will she lead four more years of a broken city? It is a fair question.

I hope somebody asks it. All right. We're going to take a quick break when we come back. I guess, well, let's ask that question. Let's ask that question to you. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. In the previous segment, we sort of exposed a TED talk that fell into my lap on social media, where a key advisor to the deputy mayor of Toronto, Osma Malik,

gave a TED talk explaining the perspective, the political perspective of Progress T.O., which is an advocacy group that tries to get as many left-leaning people into politics, specifically City Hall, including our mayor, who was endorsed by Progress T.O. And the two key points that came out of that were let cities break and process over outcome. And if you drill down and listen,

so much about our city makes sense now why it feels like things are broken because they want it to be broken. They want it to be broken so that they feel they can highlight the underlying social crises that were created by other people apparently, not them.

And therefore, they can bring more people onto their side of the fence or they can change it in a way, they can engineer society in a way that comes in line with their view of the world. And so I want to put it to you, how do you feel about, I don't know, seeing this guiding hand that has taken the city from where it was to where it is. Let's start with George. George, welcome the show.

Hey, good morning. Good morning. I call all the time. I don't know if you remember, we had this conversation on your talk show about a month and a half ago. And I told you it's all done deliberately, the crime, everything's, You know, it's an agenda. Yeah.

And you called me the biggest conspiracy theorist. You didn't believe it. No. What I'm saying now, do you give me kudos now? Well, what I'm sure I said is I haven't seen evidence to make that statement. Oh, okay, you're incorrect. Yes. Okay, yeah.

I don't know that I would, I don't know that I would tar and feather you that way. But yes. My final point, my final point is you give too much credit to Mark Carney. Mark Carney's played good cop at a federal level, and everybody under him are the bad cop he's part of the problem he's not part of the solution you know who's the solution Donald trump okay if a leader really wants to make changes i don't care you don't like his hair you don't like his orange face the way he talks he's going there and he's making changes in america loved it let's go 50 first state for canada all right george i'm going to leave you there but thank you

so much for calling in again my friend hey let's welcome mark to the conversation mark what when you hear something like this from the mouth of the advisor herself what do you think well you know this is part of the problem our entire bureaucracy is kind of taken over by people with this dogma or this far left mantra and i think the only solution left is to let it break like at this point there's there's so many people who have seen if you haven't seen the destruction by now well what's the final i don't know mark and i take your point and stick with here. I take your point. Look, you know, everyone was railing against this supposed project 2025 of Donald Trump where he was going to put all of his people into key parts of the,

of the bureaucracy in America. We've actually lived that here on the left. The left has been feeding its best and brightest into city staff and administration for years. And so I think the answer, at least in the short term, is to hold these Progress T.O. candidates in the next election to account and ask them exactly what I said before. If you get elected, are you going to continue with this nonsensical policy of letting the city break? And do you prioritize process over outcome? And if they say yes to either one of them, it's incumbent upon us to find candidates that

don't subscribe to that. And if you get enough of them elected, all things being equal with push comes to shove, if there's a fight between the election. members of city council who may find themselves on the center or center right and a left leaning city staff i'm picking i'm picking city council every time in that fight that's my take what do you think mark i know they're overwhelming by the number right but results aren't there i think even the most uh you know uh the biggest believers of some of these initiatives are starting to finally realize hey this is not the way to go like

Look at the results aren't there. Look at our city. Everything's broken. Yeah. And before I let you go, Mark, stick with me. I just want to remind people the numbers 416870-6400 or 1-3-8-2-25 talk. Mark, everything, yeah. I mean, why things are broken now makes sense to me.

The fact that this is done by design and with intent and purpose makes sense to me now. But more than that, Mark, I now know that there's an entire group of people under the the umbrella of progress Toronto that have wanted this and because now it's the job becomes not easier but clearer that these people must be asked a question do you subscribe to this do you believe this is this the Toronto that you are trying to build are you going to let the city break are you going to prioritize process over outcome I don't give a two dams about process I want outcomes that make this city a better place. But here's the problem, Mark,

is we have such lower, low voter turnout in these elections. You know the people who do vote? The people on the left, they are mobilized. They know that this is the level of government that they can control. They've done it. They've had success there, and they will do it again. And unless the mushy middle, unless the people on the center and center right come together

and realize that this is the opportunity. And unless they come together and say, we're going to find the candidates that subscribe to our worldview, we are going to push them, we are going to stand up, we are going to get others out to vote. Unless that happens,

the election's already lost. I think we're getting the point where there's enough critical mass and almost everybody has been affected in these terrible decisions. They're going to have no choice but to get involved. I hope so. I mean, I really do hope so.

I haven't seen evidence of that. Typically, the voter apathy on the municipal level is very, apathy is high, which means the voter turnout is low. And I'm very, I'm going to do everything I can to get people excited to vote and to find the candidates that match their values. But I don't know, man. I'm, of all the things I'm proud of people, the ability to turn out.

vote at a municipal election is not one of them. Mark, thank you very much for your call. Take care. Yeah. It's shocking. But it makes things clearer. And the fact is, things make more sense today after I saw that TED talk. Well, it's eye-opening. It certainly is. And when you think, when you walk around the city, when you drive around the city, there is no, it is, it doesn't matter what end of the political spectrum you're on. You have to be able to see all the issues that are there. Yeah. We have issues with congestion. with housing, with homelessness, with drugs. And all of these things should be handled with care,

but clearly there's an ideology. It's an idea. I mean, the fact that we let cities break and they say it with pride is just absolutely shocking. Just absolutely shocking. But yeah, the mission is clear. Ask the mayor. Does she subscribe to this worldview?

Is she a mayor that's going to let this city break even further than it is broken? Thank you all for your calls. Swarma in a Doritos bag? Yeah, that's real. The walking Schwarma is crispy, saucy, and made to move. Only at Osmos. Limited time only.

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