The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto Cast - Blue Jays soar and Ontario Place plans get an update

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

- Adam Vaughan - Therme spa advisor If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulrooney show. It is Wednesday, July, what are we the eighth? The eighth, Wednesday, July. I'm gonna one of these days, I'm gonna remember the date like a normal human being. But thank you so much for joining us. It's the midweek. We've made it to the hump day. It's all downhill from here. And we gotta start with the Blue Jays. Like we don't talk sports on this show very often. And being in Toronto, not a whole lot of reason to talk sports most days. But this team is doing something that it hasn't done in a very, very long time.

First of all, that we will remember just a few days ago, they swept the Yankees at home on a four-day home stretch for the first time in their entire history of a franchise. They have more wins at this point in their season than they ever have in the entire franchise. And they are one game away from tying a franchise record 11 game win streak. So coming on and and because they're playing the White Sox which is not a great team it looks like they are in a position where they could

get there and let's let's listen to a little bit of context for you courtesy of a Sportsnet. Now Guerrero with the ground ball fair inside the line and all the way down into the corner. Here comes Springer towards third and he is getting away. There will be no relay throw as he is in the score on a double by Guerrero to make it two to nothing. Yeah, so that was two nothing they won 6-1 the game was called

due to rain in the seventh but a win is a win. I don't know that the White Sox would have come rain in the seventh, but a win is a win. I don't know that the White Sox would have come back in the seventh inning, but they won that game. So they're at 10 games right now. And somebody, I believe it was on Sportsnet, made the point. Yeah, it was on Sportsnet a few days ago. And they pointed out this was in the middle of the Yankees run where they said,

look, there is a reason to get excited. I know that we're a little gun shy in the city of Toronto to get excited this early in the season. But they said, look, at that point it was 33 games in which they were really over-performing. They said, that's a sizable sample size. That's not a 10 games, that's not 12 games. That's 33 games. We're now about 35 or 36 games where they are playing at such a great level. There is reason to believe that this is who they are. Right. And and so, look, we're coming up to the all star break. Dave, when how does it work? When when is the trading deadline? Dave, how does it work? When is the trading deadline?

My brain's not working right now because of coffee, but I'm gonna say at the end of the month. I can't remember the exact day. So we're now in a position, unlike where we've been in years past, we are gonna be buyers in July 31st. So we are going to be buyers in this, at this trade deadline.

We're gonna be looking to add, not to offload. And that is a wonderful place to be. And the question is, are we going to make the moves that improve us? Or is there this wonderful magical alchemy that's going on with the team that we have right now? And there will be people say, hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But I think conventional wisdom is that if there is somebody on the chopping block on another team, that fills a hole and I've talked to Dave about this, he's got a list of boxes that need to be checked for this team to improve. If we can get one, two, three of those boxes checked and we don't lose too much for it,

I would say let's do it. I would say let's do it. So that's the state of play for the Jays. I'm here for it. I know a lot of people in this town are as well. But I also know that we're holding our breath. I don't know what we're holding our breath for. Maybe maybe they want to get over the hump of this 11 game win streak to say, okay, now is the time to be all in on the Jays. But listen, in the summertime, if there is a team in this city that we can rally around, I don't think there's anything better than that. Something that a lot of people in the city

are rallying around is their hatred of speed cameras. And there's one in particular, it is the stuff of legend, folks, the Parkside Drive Speed Camera. This camera has been catching people at a ridiculous clip. It is responsible. This one camera, one camera is responsible for 67,000 tickets.

It is responsible for ticketing to the tune of $7 million. And because of that, it is the focus of the ire and quite a bit of violence by I think people in the neighborhood who keep tearing it down. Now after they put it back up for the nth time there were cameras put on the camera the watchers were watching the watchers. And despite that it got torn down again. Again, Mike, you want to say something? Do you not want to know who this is?

Because I want to know who has the cojones to be able to do this over and over again. We know it wasn't Vlad Guerrero because he was in Chicago last night with his big swing. But who's doing this? Well, also, you have to have a fundamental understanding of how to take one of these down. They are built, they're supposed to be built to last. This is not like a, this is not like a stop sign that you can just uproot and call it a day.

I got in trouble in college once for taking a stop sign back to my room. And I got put on double secret probation. Was Brian happy? It was double secret probation, he didn't know about it. And then my best friend who was part of it with me, he didn't show up for the double secret probation, he didn't know about it. And then my best friend, who was part of it with me, he didn't show up for the double secret probation announcement, and he got put on real probation. And you know how we got caught?

And it comes full circle. We got caught by new security cameras that were put in a parking lot. Yeah, we didn't even know they were there. Yeah, it was bad move, I was stupid, and it is what it is. But anyway, cameras, cameras are there. Look, and I'll say this again. There is a camera that is placed by my house

on my way to work. And I have now made it part of my life. I'm lucky because when you hit it going south, you have to go up a hill. So you naturally slow down going up the hill. I hit it at 40 and I'm not gonna lie once I get past it I go back to what is a reasonable speed for that area I just do and everybody does now I recognize that they put that right near a school zone and it should be active during school

hours but at 6 in the morning when I'm driving to work, sorry man, I'm not on your side and the fact that there is no nuance to it. I understand the angle. Look at the Parkside Drive Speed Camera statistic. Sixty eight thousand five hundred and ninety two total speeding tickets issued to date over almost seven and a half million dollars of the estimated value. Now one hundred and fifty four kilometers an hour was the highest recorded speed. That's nearly four times the posted speed limit of 40K. But here's my problem.

People were used to driving 50K on, I take Mount Pleasant as an example. Everyone's used to driving 50. Then you drop it to 40, which is frustrating on that street because there are so few lights. It's like a mini highway to a certain extent. There are so few intersections that you can drive on that street because there are so few lights. It's like a mini highway to a certain extent.

There are so few intersections where people actually cross. And there are lights where people cross. So the idea that you're gonna hit a pedestrian is nonsensical. It's nonsensical there. But you drop the speed limit at a time to a frustratingly slow 40. And then you plant a speed camera where, by the way, again, now it looks like it's going to change, but they're going to put signage up

that's brighter to let you know it's there. And they catch you. It's a trap. It is a trap. And I think that's why these people are frustrated. I am not endorsing anyone taking matters into their own hands, but they have. And I gotta wonder what the city is going to do next because it costs money to keep putting it back up. It costs money to surveil it. And somehow people are emboldened despite knowing that they're being watched,

that they're gonna tear it down. I cannot imagine that this is cheap. But so what are they going to do? Are they just going to capitulate and give up? My sense, you know what you should do? Get rid of it and put some cops there. Put some cops there and see what happens. But if it's so important to you as a city

that this is such an important area of town where public safety is paramount, put some cops there. All right, don't offload this onto a computer. area of town where public safety is paramount, put some cops there, all right? Don't offload this onto a computer, all right? That to me would be the most significant thing. Get rid of it and have cops do the job that honestly in a lot of these cases, they probably should be doing.

And I say that recognizing, and we're gonna be talking about it, but how cops are spread so thin right now that that's probably not a priority. But anyway, we got a lot to get to. We didn't get to half of the things I want to talk about, but we're gonna, we'll find a way to bring that into the show later. When we come back, we're gonna be talking about the cataclysmic change that could be coming to minor league hockey across this country. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show and we got to talk about what's happening in hockey

right now and specifically Gavin McKenna. Now you may not know who Gavin McKenna is but those who follow hockey and those who follow the next great thing in hockey absolutely know He is being touted as a generational talent. And typically in years past, you would expect one of these game-changing players to make their way somehow into the farm system and minor league hockey in Canada or somewhere in the United States.

However, he has done something different and something special. Let's listen to the announcement that he made on SportsCenter. Yeah, it was a super tough decision. Obviously, there's a lot of great options out there. But I think me my family and everyone who's a kind of part of my circle, we all decided on the best spot for me next year will be a Penn State University. So Penn State, there you go. So he's playing in a college, uh, college, the NCAA, the NCAA. And the paradigm used to be,

you go into minor league hockey and some players would play in college, right? And some of them would make their way into the NHL. But if you wanted that, not direct route, but if you wanted to go the conventional way, it was through minor league hockey. Why is this significant? Well, because a few years ago, there was a ruling by the NCAA that they recognized after being pushed through the courts and through public opinion, that this organization in the United States,

the NCAA that regulates college sports writ large, was taking all the money and the people who are generating all the attention, the athletes were getting nothing. They were, yes, yes, they were getting an education, but they were college, they were student athletes. The burden on them to keep their grades up, to graduate, to stay academically eligible, and all while,

all while performing at the highest possible level on, on, in all sorts of sports was the value prop for them wasn't enough. And they were able to convince enough people, I think it went through the courts as well in the United States, that this was an unfair business practice, the NCAA had to make a change. And so they came up with this notion of name, image and likeness. And it allows college athletes to profit from their personal brand through endorsements, sponsorships, and other business ventures. To the tune, depending on the sport, it can get as high as like in the millions while you're in college. And so that means like if there's an NCAA endorsed video game that sells tens of millions of copies, they get, if they are a player in that game, they get to profit from it, and rightly so.

It never occurred to me that this would also bleed into hockey because we always refer to it as it relates to basketball and football. And so now you have this opportunity in college to pay these guys. They can earn as part of the NIL rules. And he was offered from a UPenn or Penn State rather, $700,000 US, I believe a year

versus what some of the others were offering two or 300,000 in college. But that is money that you're not gonna get in minor league hockey in Canada, certainly not off the bat. And so this could change everything. Why is this significant? Why should you care? Because this could change how the CHL does business

in the future. It could be detrimental. The impact that it could have on junior hockey in smaller markets across this country could be irreversible and terminal. It really could. You could see all these young guys goes from high school to big U.S. colleges. You could see the rise of U.S. colleges in a way that we've never seen before. I mean, it's the rump in the Northeast all the way into Minnesota, Michigan,

through the Ivy League, down probably to say Washington. That area is where it's really concentrated. But you could see the rise of an incredibly high level of college down probably to say Washington, that area is where it's really concentrated. But you could see the rise of an incredibly highly skilled competitive league in the NCAA, the likes of which we've never seen, to the detriment of all of these towns that depend on their junior hockey teams

for the knock-on effects of, you know, tourism, merch, all the tickets that are sold, all the hotels, all that stuff. And so this could be the beginning of a transition away from a system that small towns across Canada and the Northeast of the United States have depended on for generations. And so that is just, I don't know, what do you think about this?

I think it's sorry, I was a little distracted there as pointing at something that was happening in breaking news, which we'll get to in a minute. But I was thinking about this, which is staggering. This absolutely staggering how this is going to impact the HL. It's changing the whole landscape. Yeah, hockey. Think about even when Austin Matthews was coming out. Yeah, he went and played in Switzerland. Yeah, as opposed as opposed to playing in college or because he was gonna get paid

for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And this and it never occurred to me. But like it's it's such a unique aspect of, of hockey that is different from everywhere else. And look, something that occurred to me a few years ago, I'm not somebody who looks for the racist boogie man everywhere. I think you know that. I will err on the side of what I think is a rational conversation.

But it occurred to me a few years ago that the debate around college athletes in the United States and their desire to go chase the money as opposed to get the education. It was an unfair pressure that was put on them that was not put on hockey players. And so you heard about, oh, these football players that wanna play one year

and then they wanna go get the money in the NFL or these college athletes, these basketball players, they're skipping university altogether because all they care about is money, right? Versus an entire system that's been built in sort of the North East and in Canada, that's around as soon as you're done high school, you go into the junior hockey with no option,

no opportunity to get higher education. And there are a lot of people who have, a lot of hockey players have have no such ambitions or dreams or goals of going to college or didn't until this became an option. We never criticized the white players of hockey. But for some reason, the onus was on the black players in those other sports. And I never liked that it always sat with me wrong. It always sat with me wrong.

But you also think about these kids and stuff. How many of them actually make it to the NHL to be able to get those big contracts? It takes a number of years. Yeah. You might. Yeah, you have to be you have to be the best of the best guys who are just good in junior and that's it. Already, if you're if you're playing junior hockey, or you're already what led in like the top 3% of hockey players in the world.

And then for you to then make it to the NHL, you have to be in the top 3% of that top 3%. So it's a long shot to begin with, with all the more reason, all things being equal, being able to become the best at what you are, all while pursuing a degree, to me seems like the most responsible thing to do. It's your plan A is to be a hockey player and you're playing at a very high level at the NCAA,

which I think is now going to become even higher with when you've got, when you're attracting talent like this. But you're doing your plan B simultaneously, which is you're getting a degree in, I don't know, business administration or sports fitness, who knows, physiotherapy. I don't know what you're doing. But if plan A doesn't work out, you are leaving Penn State with a degree that has value that you can then translate into something else, maybe even leveraging your experience and your brand in sports.

Or you're also leaving with a few hundred thousand dollars in the bank so that you can figure out who you are beyond hockey and you have that degree that helps. The free education ain't bad either. And look, I recognize the pain and the crisis that this could bring upon junior hockey, but what I've just described is a pretty good bargain and deal for these young kids who are banking on becoming the next great thing. They might not. And so, so I'm trying to figure out if I'm looking at these objectively and dispassionately,

this new reality of, of a college option that makes more sense. Like I kind of, I kind of kind of see the appeal and the benefit versus junior hockey. There is the appeal and the benefit. And absolutely it's good for the kids that can do that. But I look at the impact on towns like Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Red Deer, Moose Jaw. These towns live for their junior hockey.

And if you're not getting the best players there, diluting the talent. Listen, and I get it, 100%. But we talk all the time about how nothing is guaranteed. Like you owned the most successful bookstore in your town. And then Amazon came and sold books and you were out of business. You had a taxi license for 30 years and then Uber came in

and now you're out of luck. And we beat the drum of, it know, it is what it is. Like nothing is guaranteed. We work in radio, right? And podcasters in a lot of cases are coming in eating people's lunch and you know, the streaming has killed television. Like it is what it is.

It's part of change is permanent. So they're not entitled to own the ecosystem of hockey, but it is incumbent upon them to figure out how to adapt, I think. And I don't know enough about this to judge or to say this is how it's gotta be. We are gonna keep this conversation going with people with far more depth of knowledge,

but it is really, really interesting. All right, don't go anywhere because, oh, when we come back, a conversation with Adam Vaughn. He's here to talk about Ontario Place. We're going to have a great conversation about where that goes from here. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show.

Schwarma in a Doritos bag? Yeah, that's real. The walking Schwarma is crispy, saucy, and made to move. Only at Osmos. Limited time only. Bold meat Schwarma. Go get it. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrony Show and I want to thank everybody for listening on radio, on streaming platforms, on podcast platforms, watching us on YouTube and now finding us wherever we are on our social media channels. We put the call out to thank you for getting us to 10,000 followers on Instagram. I like to say it's a short clip, and if you like it, you can follow us elsewhere. And you've responded. Our growth on Instagram is pretty tremendous. And I want to thank you very much. It's not lost on me that you don't have to do that. It's also quite surprising to me how, despite the train leaving the station and well on its way to its destination,

the fight continues almost every single day around Ontario despite the train leaving the station and well on its way to its destination, the fight continues almost every single day around Ontario Place. Like this thing is happening. That's this redevelopment is happening. And for some reason, the battle rages on, the controversy rages on and the battle lines were drawn and there were, you know, it was pretty predictable

who was gonna line up on one side and who was gonna line up on the other. To wake up one day and see my next guest on the side of the fence that I did not expect, and I love being surprised, was refreshing and I really want to have a conversation with him. So please welcome to the show,

former city councilor, former MP, and now senior advisor to Ontario Place, Adam Vaughan. Welcome to the show. Former city councilor, former MP and now senior advisor to Ontario place Adam Vaughan. Welcome to the show. Hey, senior advisor to Therma Canada, Therma Canada. It's one part of the project. Okay, so I'll tell you where I'm coming from. And it's a pretty simple belief. I don't believe that government should be in the business of amusement parks. I've called me crazy. I

don't think it's a hot take, but I watched it fall into derelict state for years. It opened the same year as Disney World. And right there, you can see why I think private hands, probably better than otherwise. And I also think that the way it's been built out, I mean, it looks like it's going to be a beautiful thing. So tell me what attracted you to want to come into this. And you probably knew you're a smart guy. You probably knew that you were going to face some criticism from friends who thought you wouldn't do it. So I first came across Thermo when I was in parliament. They came

to see me as the local representative of the waterfront area to show me what they were proposing to the then the Wynn government. They were shortlisted to go forward at that point. It's not a Doug Ford project. This has been, Ontario Place has been struggled with for a long time and been looking for major tenants to drive change down there, but more importantly to create revenue to restore and repair and keep the iconic parks like the Cinesphere and the iPod and what have you. It's why the NDP government back in the 90s brought in the Budweiser stage and replaced the form.

They drew a lot of criticism from the same people then but the NDP was actually the first government to bring in a private operator to drive revenue and attendance at the park year-round. So when Therma came to see me they showed me this extraordinary sort of massive glass greenhouse with all sorts of aquatic activities in it. And you looked at it and you went, how do you build that? But what was more interesting when you started to talk to them was the technology they were using to manage water to create not just fun and relaxation, but also therapy and health. They look at water as they look at people as the most complex water filtration systems on the planet.

And if we don't learn how to manage and use water more creatively and more beautifully and more and more sustainably, we're not going to exist as a species. And so their whole sort of ethos, their whole approach to programming is to how can we use water creatively? Yeah. And Ontario Place being a creative spot on the water and a gathering place around water. And, but only in the summer months, and even in Toronto, the summer months can be pretty horrid down on the water's edge.

It's a pretty cold lake at times. Yeah. They were showing us how to use it 24 hours a 24 hours a day, seven days a week all year round and I thought this is an interesting idea. The building's massive and over time they've been listening and talking and working with partners. Well that's yeah. They've come up with a proposal now that's refined that has 16 acres of park that has in and out door and out indoor and outdoor facilities for folks has three new places to swim in the lake if you don't want to pay to come in. Yeah. It's a great project.

And the latest that I read in the Toronto Star is that it does seem like there is buy-in from the Indigenous communities who have now. Since 2019, we've been working with the Mississaugas of the Credit and other rights holders in the area to make sure that the park we built, unlike the original Ontario place, which had no indigenous components, none. And the West Island in particular was supposed to be Northern Ontario.

It had a log run, it had silos for farming and for mining. It had no indigenous components. We thought that was wrong. And so we sat down with the Mississaugas of the Credit, that we helped them secure and hire the only indigenous landscape architect in the country. And they have built the park for us around. It's amazing. And there's four new spaces to gather. All of the species, unlike the previous park, are going to be indigenous to Ontario and the shores of Lake

Ontario. And it's a great park. It's tough to fight against fantasy. And there are people out there who are hearkening back to a past that doesn't exist. They keep saying, oh, it should be free. Ontario Place was never completely free. They always charged. It was nonsense. And you're right. There was a complete absence of Indigenous voices, which

seem, if not paramount, certainly right next to essential for this mission to be completed. We had a writer from the Canadian Architect come in to look at the new designs and raise this issue. And she said, she said, yeah, but nobody thought about Indigenous people back in the 70s. Well, you know, you've got this nostalgia for the architecture. Do you also have nostalgia for the politics of the time and the social failings of the time? But the other side of that is, is

talk to Douglas Cardinal and he'll tell you that's not true. Take a look at the Canadian people in the Expo 67, which my dad was one of the architects for. I can tell you some people in this country were thinking about indigenous presentation and representation as part of our national identity. Just because Ontario placed it in at that time

doesn't mean we have to repeat that failure. And so we've changed it and we've brought in the Mississaugas and now there's a beautiful structure which is modeled on a sweat lodge which is consistent with the programming on the inside, the saunas and the steam baths. It's communal bathing and heat and cold cycles and all that sort of therapeutic stuff that that's good for the mind, body and soul. The indigenous component of that is now actually a new public forum that can house up to 4,000 people. It replicates what the forum, we lost what the forum with the NDP.

We're now bringing that back with a new performance space that can host music and dance and ceremony and powwow and anything else that needs to happen. But it's also got in its roof perforated holes that you can see the constellation that tells you the foundational stories of how the Mississauga is the Credit came to be the rights holders in this part of Ontario. I have to bring up, but we're going to go to break soon and then we're going to take some calls. You're sticking around and take calls in case anyone wants to talk. I've got lots of questions as well. I got to bring up the parking lot, right? Because we are talking about how beautiful this is going to be.

And I co-sign that. I think it's gorgeous. It's going to be a net benefit to the waterfront and to the city. The parking lot, however, it's look, I think you can dress it up as much as you want a parking structures the parking structure. Given the fact that there's been this story that the city wanted to negotiate about moving it to the grounds of the exhibition place. Can you give me some context so I can understand why that parking lot is going to be where

it is? So currently within a stone's throw of where the bridge to our facility operates, there's well over 3,000, almost 4,000 surface parking spaces all around. If you go to the C&E, you can see everything is asphalt. There are five parking lots that Ontario plays currently. In consolidating the parking, they've opened up and ripped up the asphalt now, where they're proposing to, and they're going to build 56 acres of new public park.

In order to make better use of the land, you've got to consolidate the parking. That's a provincial project. The province has decided that they want to build it because they want the revenue from it to plow back into operations. And are they going to be able to... I'll let the province explain that business model. But are you worried about traffic in and out?

Because my concern is 3,500 cars that are trying to come in. Look, our facility is going to be very popular. Of course, there's going to be a large number of people coming in and out, and some of them will be driving. But I think that the real opportunity here is for the city and the province. If a parking garage really irritates people,

and for some it does, you know, the city and the province, there's lots of land down there where they can facilitate a better outcome. If the mayor is serious about not wanting a parking garage on the waterfront, then the mayor should come to the table and strike a deal. Yeah. But but as it stands right now, that's a provincial project. It's another part of the project. I'm here to talk about thermal. Yeah. And our spot is is beautiful building glass pavilions and wonderful, affordable activities for families. That's what I'm here to talk about. And so

we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we want to hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. Adam Vaughan knows a thing or two about taking tough questions. So if you have real concerns about this, we want to walk you through it. I'm a fan. I don't need to be sold, but you might need to. So give us a call 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. We're talking about the renewed interest, the renewed commitment to Ontario Place by Thurm and yeah it's a very exciting, so glad you're sticking around and so don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show right here on the Chorus Radio Network.

We're talking about the redevelopment of Ontario Place by Thurma. What's the official name of Thurma? Thurma. Thurma by Thurma. And listen, I've told you before since the beginning. I'm sold on this and I very much like we're sitting here with Adam Vaughn, who's a senior advisor to the company. I have been very pleased to hear that even though this contract

was signed, they've been working collaboratively with all sorts of stakeholders. And I just don't think that's going to satisfy there's a certain type of person for whom this will never be enough. I was a city councilor. I've done managed development files. You know, the opposition always says we need more consultation. We don't have to show our plans. We don't have to do any of that. But we're in an active dialogue, in an active listening mode,

and if we hear a good idea that makes a great idea a better idea, we're all in on it. And so when people said they wanted more places to swim, we added more places to swim. When they said they missed some of the cultural activities which were free in parks down at Ontario Place back in the day, although you had to pay to get in to get to the free park. Exactly.

We have responded. We've also shrunk the sides of the building and lowered it and moved some of the back of house stuff out of the building in order to sort of get it to hug the ground better. So when you cross the bridge from the X into Ontario Place, you have a seamless way of getting to the waterfront, to the public park, and if you want to sit in a beach for a day, there's an acre of new public beach there that's sand,

that's accessible, you don't need hiking boots, because right now the beach they swim at on Ontario Place has rebar sticking out of the ground. It's a rhodod island that they swim at. So we've accommodated that. But if you want a deep, deep lake water swimming experience, there are steps that walk you into the deepest part of the water, and you can knock your socks off and go for a big swim and you never have to pay us for anything

And I have to assume I don't know anything about how one builds something like this But I have to believe that there's there is an element of Reclamation that has to happen where you've got to build out But you also have to the island Yeah was construction waste dumped into the water in the middle of the night with no consultation with anybody and no one But I'm gonna oversight but this is what I'm saying. And because of that, the reef system around the island

isn't naturally there to create the island. And that's what's been battering the island and eroding the island and flooding the island. So we have to raise the island's footprint, but at the same time we have to create nine acres of underwater aquatic habitat. We've been working with the Mississaugas of the Credit on this as well to make sure

that the natural species have natural homes, but those natural habitats also protect the island and give it a longer life. working with the missus hogs of the credit on this as well to make sure that the natural species have natural homes. But those natural habitats also protect the island. See, this is a longer life. This is why I'm glad you're here because my my impression has always been like, okay, this is a great idea, because it looks pretty. It's a net benefit visually from what was there before. And it's going to be run by a private company, which knows how to manage an upkeep and that sort

of thing. The city wants to make money, the province wants to make money, it's going to be an attraction, all those things. I'm so glad you're here to fill in the details that seems to be lacking from the debate because people like to, you know, oh it's a private company that's going to come in and gouge people. Forgetting about all those little things about the environmental concerns, the Aboriginal concerns, how much money would actually be required to do all the things that you're talking about. I mean you can have government fix the island but then you're taking money out of schools and hospitals and transit. Yeah. And the

reality is that you got to make the math work at the end of the day. The pods in the Cinesphere are incredibly expensive to restore and protect and they're staying. Yeah. But to generate the income to do that you need a source of revenue and that revenue is not going to generate the income to do that, you need a source of revenue. And that revenue is not gonna come from operating a park for two months of the year. The other side of it is that you're building 56 acres of park land down at Ontario Place,

including the 16 acres on our side. And what have people been complaining about for generations, not enough park space in this city? Christ, we talk about the last great city building opportunity may be Rail Deck Park, which seems like an impossibility. And here we talk about the last great city building opportunity may be rail deck park, which seems like an impossibility. And here we are with a private company coming in, offering up to create free parks for the city. A lot of the people complaining about the lack of parks are complaining that this is in the hands of a private. There'll be as much park on

the West Island when we're finished as there was when we started. We've got a call right here. And again, I want to invite you to give us a call. We got Adam Vaughn here. He can answer all of your questions. And if you have issues with thermos redevelopment of Ontario place, that's what he's here for. I'm pretty sure he's faced some tough questions before. So he's ready to give us a call for one six eight seven zero sixty four hundred or one triple eight two two five talk. And we've got Colin here, Colin, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Happy Wednesday. And we've got Colin here, Colin, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Happy Wednesday. I happy Wednesday.

Again, thank you for just letting me get a word. And I want to know what behind the designs is anything considered inclusive? The reason why I mentioned it is anybody that has disabilities or any barriers as nice as the facility sounds, is it taking the consideration of designs, accommodations for people with disabilities? And I want to know if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility.

I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility.

I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering the design of the facility. I'm not sure if you're considering as nice as the facility sounds, is it taking into consideration and designs accommodations for people that may have, say, cognitive or just general disabilities, so that they can enjoy it just as much as anybody else? Absolutely. Good question. Thank you, Colin. We appreciate the call. Absolutely. Good question. Thank you, Colin. We appreciate the call. Absolutely.

It's a universal design, which accommodates more than just mobility disabilities or folks that need assistance in terms of traversing a space. All of that is taken into account. It's built to the highest standards of IOTA. I think the other thing is that the roof deck park that sort of moves from the exhibition place across down to the water is not a ramp. It's actually sort of a... because we've lowered the heights of the surrounding land around the pavilions, it's more of a gentle slope and a gentle decline towards the park. So all of that is there. There are

accessible ways to get around the building on the east, the west and across the top. And when you get to the new Sandy Beach, the new Sandy Beach has been designed in particular to accommodate people with disabilities because none of the other beaches in Toronto do. Say that again, none of the other beaches in Toronto have been designed to accommodate people with accessibility issues. This one is purpose built to make sure it's inclusive. Therma is as much a health care company, a wellness company, as it is a recreational company. So when I was in Bucharest visiting the site in Romania, one of the people I was talking with,

just to ask them about how they were experiencing the facility, they just had shoulder surgery and they were coming there for a deep tissue massage which is offered on the upper levels in our facility in Toronto. They then went into the saunas and went into a steam room to get the muscle relaxants and then they went into a pool where actually the stimulation of the pool that can't remember which minerals were in it but the mineral pools were also restorative for circulation in the area that

had surgery. It was recuperative. So Adam, could we see a possibility where doctors in this city or hospitals could be working in partnership with Therma? Is that within the realm of the possible? It's it's as we say it's it's not it's it's be well and have fun Okay, it's both yeah, and and the nice thing about water is you can do both I mean swimming is one of the great physical exercises

But it's also a lot of fun But but the mineral pools and the saunas and the therapeutic stuff is is also part of the programming as is healthy eating as is The most important part, which is it's accessible from a price point. It's only gonna cost about 40 bucks to get in, and you can spend the entire day there for 40 bucks. And unlike some other facilities, we had to pay to get in and then pay again

for the water park, the old Ontario place. This one- Great Wolf Lodge. If you show up as a couple of 14-year-old kids who wanna spend the day in the water park, it's 40 bucks each, you're in for the day. All right. We got, I think we got time for one more call. Let's welcome Peter to the show. Peter, what say, what do you want to ask Adam?

First of all, thank you, Adam, for all your efforts. Thank you. Well, you're welcome. And the other thing too is why let a small group hold up production? This place has been falling apart, decrepit for all these years. And as a kid, I remember going there the first week it opened and it's been standing up. Peter, we're gonna have to, I gotta cut you off

because I wanna give Adam a chance to talk. You only about 30 seconds left. Talk to me about just in 30 seconds, give me a sense of how long until this is going to be open. And are we past the point where we have to fight these little squabbles now? Look at, criticism is something which you encounter in politics.

And if you're a smart politician, you're not just a good talker, you're a good listener. When we hear good ideas that come through criticism, we try to figure out how we can resolve the issues that are being raised. I mean, we had a conversation with someone about birds today. There's ways of using UV imprinting on glass that humans can't see, birds can, and all of a sudden you eliminate bird strikes.

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