The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto cast - Homelessness, Coldplay, Lithium Ion batteries and Tony Chapman

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

- Deputy Fire Chief of Community Risk Reduction, Marla Friebe - Tony Chapman https://purposeu.ai/ If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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For a limited time in participating McDonald's in Canada. Welcome to the Bendball Arena. So thank you so much for joining us on this Tuesday. It's gonna be a great day in the city. Yesterday was a fantastic day as I saw it. And the reason it was fantastic is because I finally got to see Superman. Now, I'm not allowed to give any sort of review, anything that would resemble a review, until noon today. And I'm a stickler for that sort of thing. The only reason I was invited into the tent was because the hosts, Warner Brothers, allowed it to be so, which means I got to play by their rules and I would love to be here. I would love to be here and shout from the rooftops how much I loved this movie, but I can't and I will, but I will tell you tomorrow. But it

was fun to be there with my kids. We saw it in IMAX, first IMAX movie my kids have ever seen. And they loved it. And I loved it. It was, look, it's, what can I say? What can I say that won't be viewed as a review? Okay, here, I'm gonna go see it again on Thursday. There we go. So that should be an indicator for you

as to what I thought about this movie and how I'm gonna go see it again. Superman, yes, it's for me, I missed. I missed that character. I loved Christopher Reeve's version. I even thought Brandon Routh, who was in the Superman Returns was good. They just didn't give me anything to do and it was a terrible story. But here's one thing I will say. was in the Superman Returns was good.

They just didn't give me anything to do and it was a terrible story. But here's one thing I will say, I'll say this, incredible casting, incredible casting. And I'll also say here, I'll say as well, Lex Luthor, the guy who played Lex Luthor, the best version of Lex Luthor in the history of film or television. Honestly, I've seen them all and possibly the best interpretation of a super villain I've ever seen. How about that? Okay, we will. That's not a review of the movie.

It is a judgment on a character and an actor's performance. So come back tomorrow for a little bit more of the review. Now we got to talk about things that are affecting our city. We often say you can judge a society by how it treats its criminals. Well, I think you can judge a society by how we treat those who need our help the most. society by how we treat those who need our help the most. And the homeless population in Toronto is, we are paying it a disservice in this city. And the numbers bear it out. How do I know that?

Because there are more homeless people in this city than ever before. The city count of homeless has more than doubled, doubled since 2021. So there's a group called Street Needs Assessment. There's an overview of 2024 Street Needs Assessment. It was conducted between October 23rd, 2024, oh, on October 23rd, 2024,

to measure homelessness in the city. Over 15,000 people measure homelessness in the city. Over 15,000 people experiencing homelessness in this city. Now that is a dramatic increase from 2021 when there was 7,300 and that to be fair, pandemic affected under count. And in 2018, there were 8,715. That is a 77% increase. So here's what we know. Our shelters are full. There are 6,350 refugees that were included in the count. There are 1,615 people staying outdoors or encampments. That to me feels like an undercount as well.

The majority of those talked to cited a lack of housing as the main cause. 22% lost their home due to an eviction. Nearly two thirds have multiple health challenges. So think mental health challenges, substance abuse, and the like. And then there's also a notion of hidden homelessness. So people who rely on the resources of family or friends to stay at their homes, stay on their couches, live above their garages, but in fact do not have their own home, nor do they have the ability to find a home. And there are a number of reasons that this is a

problem. There is something called the Canada-Ontario Housing Benefit. And there was a number of reasons that this is a problem. There is something called the Canada Ontario housing benefit. And there was an allocation from April to October of last year, and there's a delay in getting that. There's also pandemic era data that's less reliable. We're dealing with the affordability crisis. We're dealing with rising rents, stagnant wages, social assistance, job losses. These are all problems. Those are problems of our own making. dealing with rising rents, stagnant wages, social assistance, job losses. These are all problems.

Those are problems of our own making. And then you get into, well, depending on your political perspective, you will weight this part more or less systemic inequality, over-representation of indigenous racialized black and LGBTQ people, so you can, depending on where you fall in the political spectrum, that is its own problem, or that deserves to be viewed as part of the problem. The city and communities have different responses. The city of Toronto claims the numbers are declining. There are fewer refugees in shelters.

They claim that there are fewer encampments. And I'd like to see the evidence of that. And the city is calling for more. But the, okay, hold on. Let's do this. The city claims that there are fewer encampments and fewer refugees in shelters, but it's calling for more housing and more shelters.

They want more intergovernmental support, I think, I think more intergovernmental cooperation, but that doesn't necessarily mean handouts from different levels of government. I think there's a lot of money at the city level, that is going to ridiculous pet projects, that should be going to issues like this. It is our responsibility. Let's, let's spend a couple of minutes here. Okay. It is the responsibility of the city of Toronto

to care for those who need our help. It is the responsibility of every Torontonian to give a flying flip about the people who need our help. This should not be a right or left issue. This is an issue for anybody with a beating heart. And if you see somebody on the street, that you know that they, nobody chooses to live on the street and those who will tell you to your face, I choose to live here, have had a trauma in their past

that leads them to be able to look you in the eye and say, I choose to live here, have had a trauma in their past that leads them to be able to look you in the eye and say, I choose to live on the street. Right. So there is a wrong in their past that needs to be righted. And so I, I am not one of these center, right people who would say, uh, you're, you're there because of bad choices in your life and you have to live with your choices. Investment in helping those who need it the most will lead to knock on benefits, right? If you can take somebody who is, if you take a motion out of it, is a cost, is a drain to the system, and you put them in a position to be empowered, to give them a shot at reclaiming their life, they will go from being a drain on the city to

a net contributor to the city. When you take the system, I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about groups. So I believe in that. I believe in that. And I want to live in a city where those numbers go down. I want to live in a city where everybody is pulling for everybody. And to simply say, give us more money is not an answer. We have a spending problem at City Hall.

We have a spending problem in a lot of loves of government, but specifically at City Hall. And with all due respect, I don't like the idea of just cutting another check to City Hall and saying, hey, here's some money for homelessness. Here's some money to help with more shelters.

I don't know if that money is going to be well spent. We heard the story a few weeks ago that we talked about on this show that there is a plan in the city of Toronto to have a homeless shelter specifically for black people, run specifically by black people. And in order to run and manage and work at that homeless shelter, you need no experience being in that world.

You just have to be black. It said so on the job application. I don't want to live in a city where the people who are in charge of helping those who need it most think that way. I just don't. I don't think that that is a good way to spend our money because what happens if somebody shows up and they are let's say two homeless people show up and one's black and one has a black parent and a white parent and there's only one bed left. What do you do? I don't I don't want to live in a world where we silo people out and that's and we choose that way. So, so yeah, before we start deciding to send more money to the city to deal with this incredible crisis that we

have, show me that you know how to spend the money you already have. All right, we've got a lot to get to on the show, including Toronto's second kick at the can at Rogers Stadium. Did it go better than it went last time? I'm sure it did. Is that good enough? We'll discuss that next on the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show.

Thank you so much for being here. Hey, yesterday we put the call out to our listeners and our viewers on YouTube to join us on Instagram because we were on the cusp of 10,000 followers. Well, lo and behold, you listened, you followed, and we have crossed the 10,000 follower threshold in just a month of having an Instagram account. So thank you very much, and let's keep growing that community.

If you see a clip that you like, please share it. And let's see if we can hit 20,000 in short order. All right, I wanna talk about the Rogers stadium situation. And I don't want this to be a knock on the hard workers there or what they've done for the city. Think about it. This was, where would Coldplay have played if not for this new stadium it's a $50,000 a person outdoors same we got the Blue Jays in town it would have been impossible to find a place for

them to play so at 30,000 feet great idea and thank you to Rogers and live nation but just because it's there doesn't mean it can't be improved. And we saw after the very first show with Shy Kids, I think it was a K-pop band, that it was a cluster. It was a cluster to get people in and out and a disaster. Well, everyone has been working very hard at the city level, at Live Nation, at Rogers, at Downsview, to get the stadium and the experience up to the level they want it to be. Did they achieve it? Well, I think from what I understand,

it's a mixed bag. My producer Mike's wife and daughter were at the Coldplay concert yesterday. So let's hear about what it was like on the ground. Well, they were worried and they were worried because everything they'd read and everything we told them. But they found that it was much easier to get there. Yeah. Although a lot of people said it wasn't. There was the food ran out very quickly. Yeah.

They were told, oh yeah, it'll be at least a half hour to get a burger or fries, which is not great. But then to me, that's the easy stuff, right? That's not unique to Rogers, to this new stadium. There are concessions everywhere and like you got to eat you got to drink everywhere so that to me is not it doesn't make any sense to me it doesn't and uh they had they had more water stations they had more areas to get away from the sun because people were there hours early yeah it's the middle of nowhere yeah they know they have

to get there two three hours early and they have to have things to do. Now, what about the concert itself? They thought that the audio wasn't great. It's a big open-air stadium. And it seems, it sounded like, from what my wife said, that they were working on the audio throughout the show, trying to make it and they improved it towards the end.

Well, let's listen to lead singer of Coldplay, Chris Martin, as he welcomed the crowd to Toronto. And he may have taken a shot at the venue. OK, welcome, everybody. Thank you for waiting eight years. I would like to say thank you so much for coming through all the bullsh** you have to come through to this weird stadium in the middle of nowhere. So thank you for coming through.

Thank you for coming through the traffic and the travel and the trains and the waiting and the lines and all the nonsense and hope you're okay. And we're really so grateful to see you. We're so lucky to be here in general, but also in Toronto on this beautiful Monday night. Yeah, well, look, it was a beautiful night and it was a great night to be at a concert. And like I said, that concert would not have happened were it not for this investment in this stadium.

There's nowhere else in the city to do it. So there's a big part of me that is like, you know what? They put this together real quick. This is not bad for what six months of, it's not bad, but it needs to get better. And here's Councillor James Pasternak whose ward the stadium is in. He's been working overtime since the disaster

of the first concert. And he came on the show right after, then he came to see us a few days later. He was just on the Toronto Today with Greg Brady featuring Brad Smith. And here's what you have to say about the lay of the land today. Increase in free water stations, better logistics when it came came to moving crowds out of the venue when the concert was over,

moving them to three stations instead of just one, having shuttle buses to move people to other transit options, better wayfinding, added go service, more accessibility shuttles. Yeah. So they're working really hard and look, it's going to, it's going to be there for five years. I guess, you know, I was looking at it as like the first, this first year, right? Like by the time the season's over, that's when they're gonna figure it all out. No, they've got, it's a five year investment. And so I've decided I'm not gonna be outraged by it.

And people now know, right? After the, I was upset for those who went to the first show because they deserved a better experience than they got. And they were the guinea pigs. And I don't think you should have tested it on guinea pigs. who went to the first show, because they deserved a better experience than they got. And they were the guinea pigs. And I don't think you should have tested it on guinea pigs. But moving forward, people are going in with their eyes open.

And now that being said, you don't know what you don't know. And if you've never been there before, and if they are sort of changing how you get in and out of the venue, then you are gonna be presented with problems. For example, Sean O'Shea of Global News was there on site to sort of be our eyes and ears awaiting,

will it be a disaster, will it be a success? And he caught some people, so he was outside sort of the perimeter. And he and his cameraman were there as these two people got dropped off in an Uber across the street from what they thought was an entrance where they could walk in. And it turns out the only way in through that gate is through an Uber, which they were just in. So let's listen to this interaction. If you get out of here, you're not going to be able to get in. If you get out of your car, they're not going to let you in. You're too late now. They would have driven you in, but now you're going to have to walk half an hour around.

Speak to the security guy. These guys got out of the Uber, and as a result of that, they're going to have to find out that they can't get in. If the Uber had just driven in the gate, they'd have no problem. Yeah, OK, so I didn't have a great view of what the signage at the gate says, which could be a problem. Like, if that is a gate designated for Uber drop-offs, and if you are not allowed to walk through,

and if you are trying to walk through, it is a 30 minute walk. That needs to be clear. Like, it's gotta be a huge honkin' sign. So the Uber driver sees it and you see it, and everybody knows, this way is the most direct way to get in if you're in an Uber, do not get out of your car here. You can't walk in like that to me.

That would have taken me from, from a one or two anxiety. I would have been slightly anxious going in there because I don't know what's going on. And I would have been up to an 11, an 11 immediately. I would have been livid that that was not telegraphed to me while I was still in the Uber. And so that to me is a problem. Now we do have some audio of the fans leaving Rogers Stadium

after Coldplay. Let's listen to this. There's only two ways out. And so they're only letting groups through at a time. Like you're sort of like cattle. And then they have like what I would call like red lights. Yeah they have red lights. They can like stop and go.

It's very rudimentary. We've parked illegally and we hope the car is there. Getting out wasn't as bad as I was expecting but we did sort of leave before it ended all the way. Right? Right? Yeah We left part way through the last song. Side lines were good. The everything else on the inside was great It's just that out in is not great either, but it's terrible. It's a good thing we're Canadian. I know Even would not have waited bumping into people saying sorry 8,000 times Yeah, yeah, listen I'm not somebody who subscribes to the

belief that Canadians are necessarily the most polite people in the world. But when it comes to crowd control, yeah, we kind of are. We kind of are patient far more patient than people would be and say like Philadelphia. Like, can I make the point that these are Coldplay fans, all in a Zen sort of, in a joyous sort of world of a post-cold play concert. This wasn't system of a down fans.

That would have been different. And that's happening, that's coming up, right? So that is a big deal. Look, they're gonna have to figure out so the points of entry and exit. They're going to have to do that because people leaving before an encore is like going to a five star meal

and then skipping out because like before dessert, like the chef intends for you to enjoy the entire menu. And if you're not gonna do that, you're kind of disrespecting the chef. Like Coldplay wants you to be there for their final song. That's why they come back on. It's the big it's the big shebang. And so look, there is time to constantly improve it.

I hope they do because I do hope that those because I want I want this Rogers Stadium to be a success because I want the biggest bands in the world to feel like they can come here and perform at a level that that that that is attractive to them. I love having an outdoor option. I would love to see a permanent option like that. But that is that is not a possible from what I understand James Pasternak said in my interview with him a while ago that you can't put a permanent structure there because it's close to residential areas

and it's not zoned for that. This is a temporary measure, but who knows? Maybe it will give us an idea that perhaps we can build something that is more permanent that doesn't bug the neighbors. And there will always be neighbors who complain. All right, don't go anywhere because we have a problem with exploding batteries in this city. We're gonna drill down as to what's going on and how we can mitigate after the break right here on the Ben Moroney Show.

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is made just the way you like it. Handcrafted cold foam topped with toasted cookie crumble. It's a sweet summer twist on iced coffee. Your cold brew is ready at Starbucks. Welcome to the Ben Mulrooney show. We have a fire issue in the city of Toronto now. We have an issue with lithium ion batteries that are for any number of reasons,

and we're gonna drill down into that in a moment are catching fire. It is a risk. It is a hazard. It is a danger and is putting people's safety at risk. And the numbers are are significant. This is in 2024. There were 76 fires caused by lithium ion batteries. That was a 38% increase from 2023 and 162% increase compared to 2022. So what's going on and how can we mitigate this? We're joined by the Deputy Fire Chief of Community Risk Reduction, Marla Freeb. Freebay. Marla Freebay. Welcome to the show. Marla? Yes. Oh, hello, welcome to the show. Marla? Yes.

Oh, hello, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much. So I look, the numbers are going up. But does that have anything to do with the fact that there are just more I'm guessing this is e-bikes and e-scooters, and there's more and more of those popping up on the streets of Toronto. Actually, you're quite right. I mean, we've just seen a huge increase in the number of micro mobility devices on the streets of Toronto.

And all of those batteries need to be charged somewhere. So in effect, we're seeing, you know, a higher number of problems. And what I know about lithium ion batteries is look, I've got one on my, in my cell phone right now. They're safe. They're safe if they are properly managed and cared for by and large, right? That doesn't stop them from sometimes. Sometimes something can go wrong.

There's always a risk. But I got to wonder, I don't know that the that the the e-bikes and e scooters that we're seeing on the streets of Toronto are being used the way the manufacturer intended. Like they, so many of them are being used to carry around heavy loads of deliveries, of food deliveries, of groceries, of all sorts of things that we now rely on as a society. And I got to wonder where other people are either

modifying their batteries, beefing up their batteries or overcharging them or just putting too much strain on them. What do you, what do you say to that? Well, the statistics are showing us that a number of the batteries are being modified. Definitely they're being tampered with to increase their longevity and also their speed. Right. So they're just not being used properly. And essentially, that destabilizes the battery. Yeah. And then when you go to charge it, this is where the problem occurs.

And so give us a little more context as to when we say a lithium ion battery is exploding or catching fire, where are these fires happening? Well, they're really happening right across the city. However, mostly in the micro mobility area, we're looking at e bikes, e hover boards, and e scooters. But are they happening in people's homes as they're charging them at night? They can sometimes happen at night or they're happening during the day, but they're not being monitored.

Okay, so people are plugging them in and then they're leaving their apartments and their homes or their garages. It's it's power tools as well and they're leaving them in and sometimes they're overcharging. Gotcha. Now and listen in in a city like Toronto, you know, we're constantly asked to do more with less and in a city like Toronto, we're constantly asked to do more with less. And I have to assume that the the Toronto Fire Service is the same. You must be your resources must be stretched thin on a good day. And so talk to me about what sort of pressure answering these sorts of calls puts on the TFS.

Well, definitely anything to do with lithium ion batteries is very challenging when it comes to a fire, because it's not only one of the most toxic fires we can have, it elicits a lot of chemicals into the atmosphere, a lot of toxic smoke, you don't want to be in that environment unprotected. So the challenge in one way is just the firefighting, but the other side is keeping our residents safe. And when these types of fires happen in tall buildings, where there's lots of other tenants, we have our challenges there.

So right now there's a sort of a push to raise awareness. It's the second annual, this is your warning public safety campaign. What are some of the key takeaways that you want Torontonians to walk away with today? Well, we really have like top four key takeaways, which are don't overcharge, keep them in sight while you're charging, don't tamper or modify a battery at all. And only use certified manufacturer approved batteries and chargers. Finally, like if you do have them and you're ready to get rid of

them, don't throw them in your regular garbage. They have to go to a recycling depot. Well, like I know that with my iPhone, it has a technology in it now that that like if I plug it in at night, and it knows it's it'll know that it will be fully charged within just a few hours. And I think it throttles the charging to ensure that by the time I unplug it, it hasn't been overcharged. I can't imagine that that technology is ubiquitous yet. I can't imagine that that technology is ubiquitous yet. That's correct. What we're also finding are people who purchase charging devices online that don't necessarily match what the manufacturer's recommendations are. Those charges are over charging devices. So they don't stop when the cell is full and and keeps charging. Marla is there like I'm a big believer

in personal responsibility as well. You know, it's one thing if you plug in your phone and for whatever reason it overcharges and heats up and causes a fire, but if you go out of your way to modify your massive lithium ion battery on an e-bike Like you'd have to be pretty gosh darn dense To not know that you're putting yourself and those around you at risk. Are there any Legal ramifications for somebody who who does all of those things a fire breaks out

You guys have to then come in put your lives lives at risk, cost the city money cost your department money. Is there any? Is there any? Like we've got a lot of carrots here? Is there any stick that we can use as a society to start co coercing people to behaving more responsibly? Well, at this point in time, the Ontario Fire Code doesn't govern, it doesn't oversee lithium-ion batteries. So this is why the campaign has started, just to get everybody's awareness at the level

it should be about self-protection and exactly what you mentioned, which is protecting our neighbours as well. It's a pretty selfish thing to be tampering with batteries and then charging them in your unit and not realising the level of risk that goes with that. So are there any? We're talking about e-bikes, we're talking about cell phones, you said power tools. Are there any other devices that we should be keeping an eye on that are that, you know, could pose a risk that we want to mitigate today? Well, when we look at the average home in Toronto, most homes have approximately 40 lithium ion

battery powered devices in it. So when you think of that number, it is pretty incredible. We're seeing fires mostly in the micro mobility realm. However, we have had them with smaller devices purchased online, small toys. That is a small minority really though. The major number of fires is really micro mobility. Yeah, and if one of the issues that we're dealing with

is the increased risk because of modifications, nobody is gonna be modifying the battery on a child's toy or for some reason these days when you buy a lamp online, it doesn't have a plug in it anymore. It's got one of those charging cables so that you can make it portable. No one's going to be modifying the lithium ion battery in that lamp, for example. You know, we've got to go where the problems are and the problems are on our streets and ultimately when those e-bikes and micro mobility devices end up back behind closed doors. So I thank you very much Marla Freebay for joining us on the show.

It's a really important word to get out. Is there anywhere people can go to get that information? Absolutely. Please go to our website, toronto.ca forward slash Toronto fire. And we have a wealth of knowledge there for you. All right. Thanks so much and more on the Ben Mulroney Show when we return.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and it seems that Rogers is top of mind for us today. We've been talking about Rogers Stadium and I'm choosing to look at it as a glass half full sort of situation. I'm choosing that the narrative is the experience is constantly improving. That's the way we're gonna be pitching that story

to you moving forward. But now there is news that Rogers has become the majority owner of Major Leaf Sports and Entertainment, having purchased BCE's 37.5% ownership stake in the massive sports conglomerate for $4.7 billion, which means Rogers is the largest owner now with 75% ownership. So to discuss this story and a lot more, the host of Chatter That Matters, a

great podcast, which you should be listening to our good friend Tony Chapman. Tony, welcome to the show. Always a pleasure, my friend. OK, so talk to me about this. I mean, we've often talked about streaming services coming for everything, but one of the things that a streaming service, no matter how good it is, it cannot replace the live in sports, in stadium experience.

And MLSC has almost cornered the market in a city like Toronto. I mean, what an incredible asset to acquire. I think I have the teachers pension fund must feel when they surrendered the majority, their majority stake for a billion dollars, not that long ago. I mean, it's a great asset. What's happened in terms of the value of these sports franchises is private equity starting to sniff around and they can, they can invest in up to 10 NFL franchises. When private equity gets involved, then all of a sudden you've got a whole new demand

for the value of that stock and it goes up exponentially. What Rogers is signaling to the marketplace, which I really like, is we're picking a lane. It's called content, it's called sports. We're going to be the dominant player in Canada, not only in terms of the facilities and ownership of the teams, but the streaming services. And here's the secret weapon and the gamification, which also includes sports gambling. Yeah, that's right. And end is brilliant on Rogers Park to say this is a lane we want to own and dominate

in Canada. Let's move to a story that's actually like for some reason I have not collided in my life with the brand decathlon very much as a matter of fact, I remember being on on this radio station, hearing about this store for the very first time, it's a sport, it's a big sports store retailer. And I guess what they offer and you tell me if I'm wrong, but you can go in there and buy a basketball. It's not an NBA licensed basketball. It's like a

no name basketball and you can buy a basketball for like 11 bucks or something like that. So they have a really great business plan from what I understand. And now we find out they're closing five of their Toronto area stores. So maybe let our listeners know who and what decathlon is and what pressures are on it that for some reason they can't make a go of it in Toronto. The best way to frame them is almost the Ikea or Walmart of sports. Right. You said they're not frills, they're value and which is which is a really important place to play.

I mean, look at what dollarama is done in that. Right. It's dollarama for sports. That's right. It is dollarama for sports. The difference is, though, is that it's not the frequency where you go to Dollarama. Yeah. And so it's the occasional spend. So you got a lot of this expensive real estate and security nowadays is becoming an unbelievable price tag. Right. People just to prevent shoplifting. Sure. And what we're

seeing is, well, if I want $11 basketball, I can get it on Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So if I want to have an NBA, if I want to go in and get those sneakers that are, they're coveted and scarce, I got to go to the store. But Amazon is where I now can just fish where all the value players are. So it's tough to compete and they're successful around the world. And here's a telling statement of Canada, but in Canada, they're failing, which is another indicative of the, the low value of our dollar, the cost of importing products, the bureaucracy, the cement that we put on these retailers. And they're just another example of losing stores. And I'll tell you something, the more we lose the energy on our main street and malls, the more the energy of our community fades. And that's one of

the sad and telling statements of this, of an economy that really is all about boring our way forward. Yeah. Versus creating an economy where people can spend their way forward. And that, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, this is a I don't know if it's specific to Canada, but it is it is a very particular Canadian problem. The fact that this is a brand that works in so many other jurisdictions around the world, they find a way to make it work. They find a way to make it successful. They find a way to make it successful. And yet it doesn't work.

Target should have been a home run in Canada and it failed spectacularly. Now granted, I think it grew too big too fast, but that doesn't change the fact that if you can't make a go with a brand that Canadians wanted, that we had an appetite for like Target, then is there hope for, is there hope for anybody in this country?

Well, this is you know, this is what we're saying with the demise of malls, unless you have an a mall, you go into these malls now and there's their empty stores or their cashing checks or their you know, low grade so people don't really got to also look at is our main streets. I go down main streets nowadays and it's mostly a sort of dental practices and nail salon services as opposed to merchandise. And it's the merchandise that brings people out on impulse and then they have a cup of coffee or they have a drink. And next thing you know, we've got vibrancy in our neighborhoods. And if it's just simply a place I go to get my teeth filled,

once again, we're losing that sense of bringing people together. And we somehow think our socialization happens over a screen where in fact, humans are social creatures and we need places to be. And this is a sad demise at Canadian retail. And again, I just have to point to a government that thinks that they can put their hand in your pocket

in so many different ways. That's making it impossible for retailers to compete, including this sense of catch and release criminals, where people are blatantly going in and stealing things on your shelf. And just look at San Francisco. There's the stores that are leaving downtown San Francisco is frightening. And I think that pattern is happening sadly in in Toronto. All right. Let other cities in Canada. All right. Let's talk about the gap. It's been a roller coaster of the gap since I mean, there and in its heyday, it was one of the biggest retailers around. And then it went through some lean years and it's sort of reinventing itself for a new generation. But now the CEO says that they're doing something differently that I don't know,

maybe other retailers will pay attention to. You know, I think what he's trying to say is we're going to promote less spam less and we're going to get some really interesting influences to wear Gap. And because they're wearing it, you will as well. I think the trains moved on. I think today the young people are looking at vintage and unique pieces of merchandise that says I'm an individual. This is my Instagram moment.

And I think the days of the Gap hoodie being the, what everybody in the tribe wears are done. And I would wonder if the tribe, if the Gap is gonna really reinvent themselves. It's just too big, they're too scaled. And guess what? My mom and, so as soon as mom and dad starts wearing Gap jeans or a Gap hoodie or Gap sweatshirt,

you really know that that young group is not gonna come along. But I get that. I understand everything you're saying, but I've never viewed vintage as something that can compete at scale, because the whole notion of vintage is individualized pieces.

Something that's, what I have is different than what you're gonna find anywhere else. You might be inspired by my vintage look, but you're never gonna find this top because I might be inspired by my vintage look, but you're never going to find this top because I had to hunt and peck for it for years. And so I don't see how we can compare the two. Well, I think we can because again, it's the local artists on Etsy

that are putting out unique t-shirts. All right. People go, I want one of those. It's not just vintage in terms of vintage stores. It's something that defines me as an individual. When we grew up, you were either Budweiser or Blue. You were Beatles or Rolling Stones. You loved the U2 or you loved Madonna. Today, a lot of the youth is really saying, I want to discover something, like a log I can bring to the campfire that says to my

social network, wow, you're an interesting person. You're one of the most interesting people. So even the way I dress nowadays, like I grew up, everybody wore Lee cords and I had a Levi button down shirt. And you kind of, that was the only way you had permission to be part of your tribe. I looked today and I spent a lot of time looking at culture

and I see a lot of that young cohort is not so much, I want to dress like you, but I want to dress like me. And I want you to validate me for that. And that's so much again goes back to that social networking, chasing false beauty stereotypes, social media that says I have to be that way. Or I'm one of many. And if I'm one of many, therefore, I'm not going to get the likes and thumbs up that

I that I somehow or other I define my life by. Well, listen, I wish we had time to get to Roger's stadium. As I said off the top, I'm choosing to be optimistic that the quality of the experience is ever improving. But we'll be following it, monitoring it after every single concert to see if they are finding a way to truly make the experience everything it can be. There will come a time where we look at it and I'm going to ask you the question, who bears the responsibility for perhaps a failing grade for certain people? Is it going

to be Live Nation, Rogers, City Planners? I'm going to ask for your take the next time we chat. In the meantime, Tony, I hope you have a great week, and thanks so much for joining us for the conversation. You as well. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Are you ready for a life-changing opportunity? BC Cancer is actively hiring for all healthcare roles across all its regional centers in beautiful British Columbia. Join a dedicated team committed to ending cancer for good and experience the lifestyle you've always dreamed of

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