The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto cast -- How a 14 year old murder suspect almost broke the internet

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

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Welcome to the Ben Mulrooney show on this Monday, July 21st. Thank you so much for kicking off the week with us. I hope everybody had a great weekend. For my part, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of the weather was more or less great. A lot of time outdoors. I actually drove up to to Muskoka for a party. I drove up two and a half hours up, spent about two and a half hours at the party and then drove back two and a half hours. It was great to get out of the city, listen to some podcasts, have some silence. Everyone at the party was like, where are you staying? where are you staying when you're here? I was like, I'm not.

And they looked at me like I was a weirdo. But I was like, listen, it's rare when you got kids at home and it's busy, you just get a little quiet time in the car. It was a real treat. It wasn't the Premier's conference you were going to? I was not at the Premier's conference. Of course, we're gonna talk about that in a few minutes.

Lot of conferences, it feels like, a lot of get togethers, a lot of confabs. Yeah, the politicians aren't getting their summers off this year. They're not getting, no, okay. They shouldn't. Listen, no one gets a summer off. You're never gonna hear me complain

when the House ride. The only reason I complain that the House rose as early as it did is because there's legislation that needs to go, that needs to be debated and needs to be voted on. That we were promised lightning speed by this government. We're going to work at lightning speed. You can't work at lightning speed if you're not sitting. There's certain things you can't do.

And it felt to me like it was a missed opportunity to get some stuff done. And so yeah, that that was where my my issue was there. But it's not like the the government is not working 24 seven. And and so I'm of two minds there. I think there's a lot of work that can be done. But the work that we really need to get done cannot be done until September. So that's it. And last night, we as a family went to the keg had a great meal at the keg. But you know what, have you ever gotten the keg and not felt like having steak?

No, yeah. Would you do that? I'd well know because we ever wanted to go to the keg. We love going to keg. And I just didn't feel like having a steak I had. And and here was the worst part, and I loved the keg. They don't have ribs anymore on the menu, right? I thought at the very least I'm gonna have ribs. No more ribs on the menu.

So I went with the burger and the burger was delicious. It was delicious. But here's what I've noticed about myself. That I'm so used to smash burgers now, that when I have an actual like traditional burger, I can't finish it. It's so hearty, it's so big. And yeah, it's also cause I loaded up on bread. I loaded up on that sourdough like a lot.

I was eating it like I'd never seen food before. And not for nothing, but the pendulum does seem to be swinging away from smash burgers right now. There is a new place in town I saw it on my feed. It's called Astro burger I have not been yet I have heard it's on it's in the East End and apparently like they have like you know, regular size patties and they butcher their own meat. And so it's like a fast food place but like an elevated

fast food place and apparently it's getting rave reviews. I'm going to make my way there sometime this week. And I will let you know. But yes, Astro Burger popped up on my feet. And I was like, this is a place I got to try. So I'm absolutely going to try that. So yeah, so that's, that's what I'm working with. Obviously, you know that the Ben Mulroney show, you're going to get my my hot takes on food. Well, I mean, Cherry Street Barbecue,

weren't you already filled up with ribs? Oh, you- You know, I was trying to get them when we were there. Yeah. I was trying to get them to bring you some sort of vegetarian menu. They don't do that. I was gonna, yeah, you were requesting vegetarian,

weren't you? Why would you do that? Why would you try to take something perfect in my life, like Cherry Street BBQ? I mean, think about it. I'm a man who loves, like I have a particular set of like loves when it comes to food. And most of those loves are 1.1 kilometers away from work. Why would you try to take that and turn it into something bad? I get joy out of these things. Yeah, I really do. Well, you missed last week because on Friday, you missed the the is it BS or is it real? And much like every week, I got one wrong and ran the table on the rest. Right? I really I've died.

I'm killing it on is it BS or is it real? Yeah, I'm starting to think that you cheat. How would I cheat? You're trying to figure it out. Now there was one question last week where Danny, our film producer, tried to get a little cute on something. And it was about like an Eastern European country doing something, I can't remember what it was, but there was a fine that needed to be paid in euros.

And so because it's not listed in the rules, but I said, I would never do this again. I Googled is this country in the European Union? And it said, no. Now I knew it wasn't, but I needed confirmation. Now I won't do that anymore because there's, I wasn't Googling the story. I was Googling a sort of a piece that was sort of accessory to the story.

I won't do that anymore, but I did that one thing. And I made it clear that I did. All right, so look, we don't have a lot of time to get into this right now, but we're gonna touch on it. This is a story that is making the rounds. And it, you know, the story of this 71 year old grandmother, who was she worked with veterans at Sunnybrook Hospital, married to her husband for 47 years, she was taking

groceries out of her car at like 9am. And a young person approached her and was in a struggle with her to take her keys, he just wanted her car. And when she he didn't get the result he wanted, he killed her. He killed her. And it was a you know, that's a hole in the heart of a community that will never get repaired. And then this young person who turns out was 14 decided to go on to social media, I believe it was Instagram Live, and confess to the crime. And we find out the F find out the kid is 14. His name and his face are everywhere. But because he's

now been arrested and charged with second degree murder, we as a news organization are not allowed to mention his name. We're not allowed to mention his name. We're not allowed to share his likeness, even though it's out there. We can't even we can't even air any of his voice for fear that that might somehow get back to this young boy who only made a mistake. Are we allowed playing this? No, we can't even play this stuff. No, we're not playing it, but you can read what he said. So he said, she didn't give me the keys, this is why he stabbed her.

She didn't give me the keys, so I yoked her, which I think is, I mean, it's clear, so I killed her. And then somebody asked him on this Instagram Live, do you regret it? And he goes, yeah, low key, yeah, I feel like she didn't deserve it. Well, that's great, that's great. And so more and more, we are having these conversations

about young people doing the crimes that used to be associated with older people, anyone over 18. But because we have laws on the books that protect young people, we're now sitting in a, we're now living in a world where more and more it feels like these young people committing these crimes should be held to account the way adults are. Not according to the Supreme Court though, because on Friday they came down with this principle of a young person's presumed diminished moral blameworthiness that people younger than 18 may make this may not make decisions

like an adult and in general should not be held to the same standard in criminal proceedings. I don't know what world the the the members of the Supreme Court are living in but they are not living in the Canada that you live in that I live in. This woman is was 71 years old. She worked with veterans at the hospital, and a 14 year old wanted her keys and when he didn't get them, he he stabbed her and we are making allowances saying oh well it's because his brain wasn't proper. Like who the hell cares that his brain

wasn't properly it hasn't hasn't fully developed yet. Who cares? This woman is 71 and she's dead. She's dead. But we are making allowances for this guy, by the way, according to the new rules set up by the Supreme Court, this kid could be out by the time he's 1818 for killing a 71 year old woman. In the primary ruling on Friday, the top court said the crown must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a young person does not merit the presumption of diminished blame for their crime on account of their youth. Something is going to happen here, guys. Something is going to happen. There is an increasing

disconnect between the people who control our lives from the government and the Supreme Court, and the people actually live those lives. And I don't know what's going to happen, but this frustration is going to turn into anger. That anger is going to turn into something else. And I don't want to see that happen. But at some point, the people who are making decisions that affect our lives need to accept the reality of the lives of the law- abiding citizens of this country. Why do we keep defaulting to protecting those who break the rules? And we will delve deeper into that after the break. We're going to dig deeper into the laws that are fueling our anger after the break. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And on this Monday,

we are looking at the exceptional case of this young, this 14 year old self confessed murderer, who took to social media to let everybody know that he stabbed a 71 year old grandmother, to let everybody know that he stabbed a 71 year old grandmother because she wouldn't give him the keys to his car. And because he's 14, the Youth Criminal Justice Act applies. And even though he voluntarily put his name and his face and his likeness out there, we are not allowed talking about who he is for fear of, I don't know, upsetting him. I have I don't know. But it's, it's, it's this weird, upside down sort of stranger things situation that we're living in. And to hopefully make sense of it. We're joined by lawyer Ari Goldkind. Ari, welcome to the show.

Ben, good to be with you on this absolutely ludicrous story. Well, you know, I like to mention like, sometimes when when when information is put out there on the internet, you can't take it out. I like to say it's like trying to take pee out of a pool. And yet, so we in the press have to live in this fiction that his name doesn't exist out there, even though he's the one who put it out there. So you're saying toothpaste back in a tube

and genie back in a bottle are outdated by pee in a pool. I'm gonna use that one, okay, let's continue. So, no, but because we live in a world where the powers that be, the institutions, the governments, the laws seem to focus on criminal first, victim second, maybe even third, is there now a fear that because this 14 year old went out there and let everybody know who he was and what he did. Is there a fear

that that could be used in his defense that he wasn't able to get a fair trial? Well, okay, so let's break this down. Not only I mean, if there were ever a jury here, would there be some application that you have to ask a bunch of questions of the jury to make sure they can give them a clean slate and by the way Juries are very good at doing that then even in the most highly publicized cases 12 people Actually can do that moving along. He's going to have the system not only because of his youth, but because of certain

Characteristics in 493 of the criminal code. he's gonna have all sorts of immutable characteristics come to his favor he's got he's in bail court today we haven't even talked about that so at the end of the day uh... we have a y c j a uh... and you know there's a big decision friday from the supreme court yeah we have a youth criminal justice act that is so woefully out of date and you used the word a second ago Ben Let's pick up on it institutions

Well, I can probably bet you Ben that the institutions and I use that with a wink-wink Nooch-nooch are filled with people who 71 year old mothers or spouses or grandmothers Have not been butchered, or let me use his word, yoked, yoked, by a 14 year old who walks amongst us. And by the way, no matter what happens to them, may end up sitting next to your 13 or 14 year old daughter in school.

It's insane. It is insane. And we were already living in that insanity prior to the Supreme Court bringing down their two rulings that seem to exist in a complete different reality than we are living here in Canada. Explain the disconnect to our listeners. Sir, so to make this make sense, now again I'm going gonna put my defense lawyer hat right back on one of the most important standards we have in our criminal code particularly in the day and age of gomashi and the canada hockey trial that's a far south in london is we still have what's called proof beyond a reasonable doubt sure that's not meant to be a cliche okay

but what the supreme court has done now is even when you take this 14-year-old who's all over Instagram and bragging and, you know, showing his guns off and bragging to his, quote, fam, you spell fam, end quote, about yoking the 71-year-old grandmother, the Supreme Court has now said we're going to make sure it's as hard as possible for you to be tried and adults were going to make it as hard as possible for the crown to show or rebut the presumption that these are people walking around with diminished moral capacity that's the phrase now

in many cases then that is correct to you it into a fight at school there's a misunderstanding between a sixteen- old and a 15 year old about boundaries Yeah The mind of a 15 or 16 year old is not as fully formed as somebody who's 18 in a day Remember Ben how artificial this is yeah, if you're if you're 18 plus a day You're a full adult if you're 17 and 11 12th You get treated with kid gloves. I mean, that term purposely.

Yeah, well, let's hold on. Let's, let's give, let's give the listeners some examples here, because a youth sentence under the the Youth Criminal Justice Act for second degree murder faces up to seven years maximum with no more than four years in custody and the rest supervised in the community. So like I said, this this 14 year old, if you were tried today, could be back in the community by the time he's 18. Correct sitting next to your kid. Yeah, yeah. Being on being

on the TTC bus next to your kid who's trying to go to work or at least apply to jobs that aren't available. This is why the YCGA bet as well intentioned as it was forty years ago whatever it is it's not keeping up to date with the times we've watched this country turn into a bit of a toilet because of completely stupid federal government policies which we don't have time to talk about today yeah but

most policies most people bed things change with the time yeah being the da whether it's marriages relationships understanding of sexual boundaries discrimination racism you whatever you want to call it things move with the times what's the one thing that's not changing with the times or in my view going backwards and

not reflecting the spike of serious criminal heinous violence by people under 18 and it's horse manure that they don't know what they're doing. And in fact, Ben, and I'll end my answer here, so much of what's being done in the criminal element in the GTA is getting people under 18 to do your bidding. Let's leave this story behind for a second because the people who are getting these 16 and 17 year olds know that if and when they get arrested, they number one, stay anonymous

and number two, they get a kiss from the system. Yeah, so okay, so let's talk about how this could possibly be remedied, because it seems like the Supreme Court is going down a path that flies in the face of the reality that we as law abiding citizens live. So, so how does it work? Is, is this something that could be like, I want to live in a world where our liberal government wakes up and realizes, Oh, my goodness, like this is the Supreme Court has gone crazy here.

We haven't done much to help on the legislative front over the past 10 years under Trudeau's guidance and leadership, but Mark Carney says he's a different kind of liberal. Could we wake up in September and see some legislation come forth that tweaks the Youth Criminal Justice Act or does something to, I don't know, blunt this Supreme Court ruling.

Well, look, we had been you'll recall because you know, history matters. We had a Supreme Court in a nine to zero unanimous decision in their infinite wisdom, like Seinfeld, where you add the not that there's anything wrong with that line where in their infinite wisdom They thought giving people like Paul Bernardo Yeah and the mosque shooter Bissonette and You know all these other notorious serial killers They should still be able to apply for parole after 25 years each life is not worth another 25

Why then because in their infinite wisdom it would be cruel and unusual punishment to not give somebody a chance for parole after twenty five that was nine zero unanimous gay so here's where it is you say carney's that we don't have enough time to talk about my views of part-time canadian carney and who's who's interest he serves

but you know this should not be partisan. You should be having, not you, but the proverbial you, there should be a meeting this morning on Parliament Hill, even including the crazy green people, that everybody gets together and says, hold on a minute, we're gonna have a real talk about crime in Canada. Crime doesn't choose whether you have a poly ever Carney sign on your driveway, okay? And this 17 71 year old grandmother who's

butchered, a lot of times then we get an urge to change policy because the case is a unicorn. Yeah. This is not a unicorn. This is happening every day. And I don't think Parliament will do a thing about it. That's what I think. Well, listen, Ari, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you setting the table for us because after the break, we're going to open up the phone lines. We want to hear from you, the listeners of the Ben Mulroney Show. Where do you stand on the issue of age

when it comes to the criminal code? I want to debate. The numbers are 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. We got a lot to get into. And frankly, I'm tired of being polite about this. This is I stand firmly with the family of the 71 year old grandmother who is butchered because a 14 year old didn't get access to her car. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it. So let's have an honest conversation right after the break right here on the Ben Mulroney show.

Question is, if you recognize that young people below a certain age are should not be treated the same way as an adult when it comes to a crime, at what point does the crime become more important than the kid. At what point does the crime become more important than the kid? At what point does the impact of that crime, the death, the murder, the violence, the toxicity that it causes in a community, at what point do we prioritize that over the kid

and say, time to throw the book at the kid? It's an honest question, I don't have the answer, but in this one case of the 14 year old who stabbed a 71 year old woman grandmother who was just taking your groceries out of her car stabbed her to death because he didn't get access to her car. That kid should be in prison should be treated like an adult. I'm tired of coddling the kids. I'm tired of it. And so let's start with who do we have Patrick, Patrick, welcome to the show. Patrick, I was driving when you said this, because if I had been pulled over, I'd lost my mind.

What a great country where the victims are never better off than the criminals. This lady's dead. This kid and he's not a kid. He's a murderer. This murderer is going to get all kinds of help from the government that I pay for psychological this rehabilitation that he's going to come out of juvie or wherever they send them. Great street cred is going to be a hero amongst the other morons and it's going to be like while he was only 14 that kid should never see 15. If someone breaks if someone ever did if that was my mother and I wasn't I was around I care if the kid's 10, 40 or 60, he dies. That simple.

Well, look, I don't want to live in a world where, I believe that, I do believe in that concept that better, you know, 10 guilty people walk free than a single innocent person die at the hands of the state. It's an extreme to prove a point. But I think that this kid, look, if there is no real consequence to the crime, if there's no time, you are incentivizing others to do similar crimes. To me, it is guaranteed that another 14-year-old is going to look at a situation like this and say, wait, I can do that. And by the time I'm 18, I can be out. And as you said, I can be a hero amongst a certain type of

warped individual. Why wouldn't they do it? Like, honestly, why wouldn't they do it? 18, they're out there, they probably have their the record sealed. They probably have all sorts of programs that help them reintegrate into society. Please, let's welcome Frank to the conversation. Frank, welcome. Morning, Ben. We have welcome Frank to the conversation. Frank, welcome. Morning, Ben. We have to look at the facts on the ground. I don't know if the Supreme Court took this into account. But it's clear that violent crimes in society in Canada has increased exponentially. And these kids that are 14, 15, 13 years old,

they're they're they're part of general, they're part of gangs and groups where they have criminal leaders that use these that use these young kids as you mentioned to incentivize and motivate them to commit the crimes so these these older gang leaders they can prosper they can get away uh... you know in terms of of of paying for or being brought into the the judicial system to be criminally convicted as being

orchestrators yeah of these crimes. So you're essentially not taking a real aggressive action and incarcerating young kids like this. You're actually giving these leaders of these gangs basically carte blanche to do what they want, knowing that they won't get caught. Yeah. And look, these crimes aren't happening in a vacuum. They are a response to things. They are a product of an environment that we have created. And one of those stimuli that is leading to these kids, more and more kids,

is the fact that we have such a permissive system that allows them to flourish and allows them a second and third chance. Of course, that's part of it. And the Supreme Court's decision is adding fuel to that fire. Like I would not be surprised if a year from now we saw even more people below the age of 18 committing these heinous crimes. And you're not going to be able to

say, Oh, well, there's no, there's, there's no causation between the Supreme Court decision and that I will ascribe causation. Like I don't need a science to tell me that one begot the other. And this is, to me, it feels like our Supreme Court has lost the plot and it's existing in its own reality. And if they would just put themselves in the shoes of everyday Canadians, they would see that what they've done has made matters worse.

But Frank, thanks so much for the call. Let's go to Dave. Dave, welcome to the show. Ben, you're turning into a powerhouse, so yeah. I'm loving you. worse. But Frank, thanks so much for the call. Let's go to Dave. Dave, welcome to the show. Ben, you're turning into a powerhouse. So yeah, I'm loving you like that thing from McDonald's. I'm loving it. Thank you. Absolutely disgusting. Now, this is going to bore a lot of people. What I'm going to say is, but back when we used to have some religion, the do's and don'ts, thou shall not kill, thou shall not take, take, you know, this, this, and this, and this stuff, that stuff is out.

Now everything can be normalized. This kid, like some of your previous callers have said, like he shouldn't see the light of day. No, he shouldn't, at the very least. Now as that tremendous lawyer that was on there, and I like how that guy was was summing things up. He said in their infinite wisdom, these nine people, who are these nine bozos? They shouldn't have a job selling lemonade on the side of the road. They're as disgusting as these. But I mean, yeah, listen, I can't thank you very much, sir. Listen, I am not going to sit here

and disparage the our Supreme Court justices. I do not know enough about them. I would I'd like to say that I have been. What's that? the info about our Supreme Court justices. I've got a list of them here. I would like to tell you that I know everything about them. I don't, and neither do most of you. If any of you have any knowledge to drop on me about our Supreme Court, that's fine. I'm specifically talking about this case

and these two rulings that came down on Friday. And the fact that our Supreme Court has decided to make it harder to incarcerate heinous criminals simply because they are younger than 18. In a world where more and more kids are committing these crimes tells me that there is a disconnect between the lives that our justices are leading and the hell holes that our cities are becoming. And if, by the way, if anybody takes these clips and says, oh, there's Ben Mulroney rage farming again.

I'm sorry, my default setting is to be the happiest guy alive. I walk around with a soundtrack of happiness in my head. If you don't look at the murder of a 71 year old grandmother by a 14 year old and are not filled with rage, then there is something fundamentally broken in you. All right, this is people are sounding the alarms. Canadians are upset. And we do not feel that there is that this their Supreme Court is listening or caring about the plight of regular everyday Canadians. Let's jump right back in with

Mike. Mike, thanks so much for calling in. Mike, no problem. Yeah, my biggest problem is the liberals' hypocrisy on this. This morning on your earlier show, they were talking about lowering the voting age to 16. Well, if you're mature enough to vote at 16, shouldn't you be held criminally accountable at 16 as well? Oh, there's all sorts of, buddy, there are all sorts of hypocrisies here. Situational this and situational that. So a 14 year old, we're gonna, we're gonna,

they have to clear such a high burden to show that that kid had the mental acuity. And we were going to, we're doubling down on the fact that their brain isn't developed at 14. But now do kids with gender dysphoria. Okay, now explain to me why a kid at nine has the requisite ability to have their gender dysphoria affirmed, but a 14 year old who commits a murder,

no, no, that's a child. We gotta treat that kid like a child. Why is consent acceptable in certain cases and not others? None of it makes any sense. And it all seems geared towards a particular worldview. And at some point, at some point, people are gonna, I don't know what people are gonna do, but there is anger and frustration out there.

And I don't like the signs I'm seeing. Hey, Peter, welcome to the show. Good morning, Ben. Good morning. This subject that is on the news right now is not a knee jerk reaction. We have to do something with the crime that we're experiencing. These children, these children are creating crimes and they're being held to a new standard

and things are just not changing. Just getting worse. Yeah. You look at the gang violence that occurred a couple years ago with the swarming of a man and the women or the young girls were found guilty and just getting out now. It's ridiculous. It's just ridiculous. Yeah, the age of the kids is getting younger,

but the crimes themselves aren't changing. Like a dead grandmother is still a dead grandmother. And I don't particularly care if the kid is 14 or 28 or 92 years old. That person is still a dead grandmother. And I don't particularly care if the kid is 14 or 28 or 92 years old. That person is still dead. How can we not agree on that? Oh no, we've got to give that kid

the opportunity to fix their life. Some lives are unfixable and some, by the way, may be fixable and they are unworthy of being fixed. And listen, we got a lot of people on the line. Don't go anywhere. We're going to continue with this discussion. I wanna hear from you. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show.

Very interesting that we're starting the show, this segment with the song, The Middle by Jimmy World, because I don't think there's anybody in the middle of this discussion or either on one side or the other. Of course, we're talking about the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Supreme

Court's decision to make it even harder to try and convict and incarcerate someone below the age of 18 for a crime than ever before, even as we are dealing in the city of Toronto with a 14 year old who confessed on social media to stabbing a 71 year old grandmother to death in order to get her car. Right. That and by the way, that's not an outlier conversation. That's not outlier situation. We're seeing this more and more, not just in Toronto, but across the country of people below the age of 18, committing some of the most heinous crimes in the country. Let's let's, let's

start with line one. We're gonna start with Chad. Chad, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I was telling your producer there back in like 85, there was a 14 year old that killed his mother and father and his sister. And I think it might have been 85 and he got three years. He was 14 years old. Yeah And he said it was based on the band Armada and their character Eddie. Yeah. And they kind of- And I'm sure the argument was, I mean, only a 14 year old would be so impressionable

that they would listen to a song and commit a crime like that. And that doesn't change the fact that everybody's dead. Like it's, listen, this is not a shoplifting. This is not kids getting into a fight in the schoolyard. This is not tempers flaring because they don't know how to modulate their emotions. This is cold blooded murder.

And this 71 year old grandmother is never coming home. And I'm, like I said, I get the fact that certain, for certain situations, we want to create a pathway for somebody to be rehabilitated. In my humble opinion, this 14 year old is not worthy of rehabilitation. And more importantly, we need to send a signal to others who are influenced by the same, I don't know, drive towards violence, that if you are 14 or 15 or 16 or 17, and

you commit a crime like this, you will never see the light of day again, I guarantee you that it will give some of them pause, I guarantee you that they're not gonna, they're not gonna stab that 71 year old next time. Hey, thanks for the call. Chad, I appreciate it. Let's go to Amanda. Amanda, you're a school bus driver. What are you seeing on the ground? Oh, it's horrible. I mean, as a female bus driver, unfortunately, I would have to say that 99.9% of my problems are with teenage boys. Yeah. And the first place they go is sexual harassment.

So they harass you. They harass me and they harass girls on the bus. And it is a constant problem. And the worst part is the sort of response, like the visceral response from my office, for example, which has like zero power in the end, because we all have to go through school boards and this and that is, oh my gosh, this is horrible. This kid needs to be disciplined, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In the end, lucky if the kid gets a talking to. Yeah, of course. Like they never get kicked off the bus, nothing. And if I'm intimidated by a group of four teenage boys that are threatening to rape me, how do you think that the girls that are sitting at the back of the bus feel? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and it's allowing to go on. It's not even

it's sanctions. Yeah. And you've got the Supreme Court coming out saying, hey, whatever permissive system we had before, we've just made it even more permissive. So whatever that kid, that whatever those kids are doing, we're gonna make it even harder to make sure that they spend any meaningful time behind bars for their crimes. Amanda, thank you so much. I really sorry you're going through that.

And I wish I had something to say that would make it better. But sadly, we can't. Hey, give us a call 416-870-6400 or one triple eight, two to five talk. I'm looking at sort of the the crime, and almost like the reaction by the Supreme Court. And I'm wondering what Canada they're looking at. I'm wondering what state of play they are seeing. I'm wondering why this decision at this time was brought down.

I mean, not for nothing, if we're looking at the people who populate our Supreme Court, five of the nine were appointed under Justin Trudeau. Now, I can't speak to the details, but we do know, I mean, I know, I can only speak for myself. I know the type of Canada that was created under Justin Trudeau. And so to appreciate the majority of the Supreme Court justices were appointed under that worldview. I mean, that might explain this sideways decision that doesn't seem tethered to the reality that so many of us across Canada are living in. So many of us are concerned with the safety in our

streets, with the rise in violence, and just as importantly the rise in violent crime amongst people below the age of 18. This decision seems to fly in the face of what I view as the remedy to that, which is harder, harsher penalties. But I'm just one man I I wanna hear from you. Let's welcome Philip into the conversation. Philip, what do you think? Yes, hi, good morning. Well, here's my take.

About 20 years ago, I was a camp counselor, and we were having an evening where there was a party, you know, coke and that sort of thing. And then 10 year olds, between 10 and 14 year olds came into the gym yelling, saying, hey, hey, here come the gangsters, here come the gangsters. And I thought to myself, you know, full stop, I went, what? I went, they're, they're, like, they were gangsters, you know, and this is what they were like, like, like proud to be. So,

I agree, we're living in an upside world now, and where troubled kids are getting the wrong message, you know, and we have to include the parents, the parents should be responsible, the parents should be part of the solution. Yeah, we're sending, we're sending singles that are, that are misleading, you know, this, I disagree with you, you know, there shouldn't be like this child killed a person, there should be consequences, but they're redeemable. But there's but we have to let the kids know this is not the way to to conduct your life. Like I walked down. But yeah, but as Phillip, that was sometimes the only way to get people to understand that the reality that they think

they're living in is not the reality is to show them an example. The only way to sometimes show a 14 year old that he can't do something like that is to show the example of a 14 year old going to prison for the rest of his life. As I'm sorry, like some kids, some people do not

get that they have to play by certain rules, unless they see what happens when somebody doesn't play by the rules. And we have a Supreme Court now that is saying that these kids can do whatever the hell they want. The the proof required to send them to prison is a mountain even higher than ever before. But thank you for the call. I think we got time for one more. Let's welcome grace to the Ben Mulroney show. Grace, what do you think? Hi, Ben. First of all, love, love, love the show. I get all

my info only on 640. Thank you. And especially when you're on Well, thank you very much. I agree with the last caller. I do believe there are a lot of ignorant parents out there. I'm sorry to use the word ignorant, but there really are. I have a 23 year old son and the way I raised him was, listen, you know the difference between right and wrong. You do anything that is gonna tarnish your name or our name or anything like that.

I will not back you up. I will not back you up. I will not pay for lawyers. I will not come to court. The, the biggest thing, uh, you know, Ben, one thing for me is, um, I, some played football for all of his teenage years and, um, it hit home when the incident happened at St. Mike's. Yeah. And then I thought parents. Yeah. I got, I got, I got to end it there, but thank you so much for participating in the conversation. Thanks to everybody for calling in.