The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto cast – Police are busy, Jessi Cruickshank, DUI madness and Afrofest leadership

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

 - Jessi Cruickshank - Ari Goldkind - Peter Toh/Afrofest director If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: @benmulroneyshow Twitter: @benmulroneyshow TikTok: @benmulroneyshow Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Happy Friday, everybody. We made it to the weekend. And I went to see Superman again last night to the Ben Mulroney show. Happy Friday, everybody. We made it to the weekend. And I went to see Superman again last night due to poor planning on my part. And I bought the tickets because I really wanted to see the movie

before it came out with my boys. And then I got invited by Warner Brothers to an advanced screening. And I know my boys well enough to know that we were gonna love it the first time. We loved it even more the second time I'll break that down for you at the end of the show where I'm going to be having a conversation with somebody who knows a thing or two about Superman we're gonna

be debating who the best actor has been playing Superman and and so that's gonna be a great thing to talk about at the end of the show we've got a great mix in the show for you today of some really important stories, as well as some fun stuff. Important stories affecting you, your business, affecting your public safety, affecting how you interact with in public spaces. We've got great conversations for you all morning long,

but we have to start with a speed freak on the roads of Toronto. Now, most of you do not watch as many movies as I do in the movie theaters. I love going to the theaters, which means I see a lot of trailers when they come out. And there's a trailer for a third Tron movie. You'll remember Tron from the 80s,

and they rebooted it a few years ago. Not really my cup of tea, right? I'm a big sci-fi guy, but this just doesn't land with me. But the visuals are spectacular. And in the trailer for the new Tron movie, the entire trailer is about those Tron motorcycles from the video game. Well, they are now superimposed into the real world,

cutting through traffic on a highway going at insane speeds. That's this video. I've never seen a vehicle going this fast on a Canadian highway. I've certainly seen fast vehicles in race car situations. I've never seen anything like this. There is video and audio of the I guess the OPP flying overhead monitoring the situation trying to figure out what do we do with this guy in some of the most dangerous driving I have ever seen. Let's listen. Oh, it's the York Regional Police. I'm sorry, not the OPP. Let's listen to some of the audio of the police communicating guys in the helicopter communicating with the guys on the ground. Speeds in the area of 170 right now. Based on the driving and how he's passing vehicles,

we've got grounds for dangerous, I believe. I mean, you've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like it. How careless this guy could be and how fast he was moving. And all it would have taken was somebody to change lanes without indicating. And I always go back to what I've said before. I'm not trying to make this about cyclists versus drivers on the streets of Toronto, but I'm always told, hey, as a driver,

you have to watch out because you told, hey, as a driver, you have to watch out because you can kill anybody, especially a cyclist, to which I respond, I know that, I behave like I know that, why doesn't the cyclist behave like they know that? Why are they the ones, like, why is it a game of chicken every time? And this guy is putting a lot of faith in a lot of drivers

that they are gonna quite literally stay in their lane He he should be roadkill right he should be dead and instead. He's fortunately arrested Hey, let's listen to another hot move that this This motorcycle guy pulled last second squeezes around a transport to go westbound 401 squeezes around a transport to go westbound 401. Jesus man. Westbound 401 11. Jesus man. By the way, the suspect was arrested.

He tried to hide in a parking lot. He's caught. His name was Amir Hassan Munfarad, 37 from Richmond Hill. The vehicle was a black Yamaha motorcycle, and it had a counterfeit license plate. I would really, really like to say that they're going to throw the book at that guy. But if you've been living in Canada for any period of time, you know that that's probably not likely, but we'll follow that case for to its conclusion, whatever that may be. You'll also remember that over the

past few days, we have been talking about a terrible story about a young girl in in a place just north of Ottawa west of Ottawa called quadville. I'm pronouncing in French because I suspect it's a French community. And on June 23, an eight year old was reported missing. This is a very small town, right? It's about 1500 people that live in this town. And you know that the smaller the town, the more impactful the issue of a missing girl is because everybody knows her, right? It can tear at the fabric of a society, like of a community. And volunteers began searching for her. And just after midnight on June 24,

she was found in a grassy inlet, just put yourself in the shoes of the parents, eight years old, your child has disappeared. You have to, you've got to go through that entire night and your daughter is not in her bed in the place where she is supposed to be safe. And then the very next day, she's found with what the OPP referred to as horrific life threatening injuries. In a news release, the police warned that although they hadn't confirmed it was an animal attack, that's what they suspected. So already you're dealing as a family and as a community with a terrible violent attack on the child. We think it's an animal. And now there's fear in the community that there's this wild rabbit animal out there that's attacking our kids. Okay. So already it's trauma on top of trauma. Then you fast forward to finding out that, well, first of all, let's go through this.

Let's listen to the OPP. Oh no, actually I'll tell you, it's not, it is an animal, but it's a person. It's a, from what we understand now, the suspect is a person that attack was so wild and it was so violent and it was so animalistic that the cops defaulted with all of their experience to believing that this was an animal attack. And now the questions are, are being asked, like how, how could you assume that? Here is a member of the OPP explaining that they thought it was an animal attack. We really did suspect that this was an animal attack based on the horrific injuries and wounds that this eight year old had suffered. It did really appear as though it was an animal

caused incident, but our investigators couldn't tunnel vision on that. So they started looking at all the aspects, because that's what you do have to do in a case like this. And as of Tuesday, they, they formed the grounds to arrest and charge this 17 year old. 17 year old. So of course, we're not going to get to know this person's name, but just think about it. This attack was so violent. And there's also an alleged sexual assault on the eight year old, so violent that people thought it was an animal that did this. I, my contention, it was an animal in human form. I'm not trying to dehumanize the person. I'm literally telling you that the cops saw he was an animal and I'm doubling down and say, okay, let's stick with that moniker. So let's go back to the trauma, the worry of the parents, and then the breaking of their heart

when they find that their child has suffered this terrible attack, the fear in the community because they think it's an animal. And then to hear that it is a 17-year-old. Now, I don't know whether this 17-year-old was part of the community, but again, we go back to these crimes and how they affect small towns. This town is forever changed by this forever because of this 17 year old. And because they're 17, we don't get to know

who they are. The, the law protects that person because according to our sensibilities, because this person may be just a few months shy of being a legal adult, we owe it to them to allow them to rehabilitate. I tell too many stories on this show of young people engaging in adult behavior, i.e. criminal behavior, and getting off because of that assumption

and that leniency that we have as a society, that permissiveness, that optimistic belief that if you're young, your future is ahead of you. What about this young girl, her future? Does she have one? I don't know. If she does have one, what does it look like? And what about everybody in that town

whose future has forever been altered because of this violent, vicious, animalistic attack? I think it is time to take a look at the laws that we have on the books that protect young offenders, that give them the benefit of the doubt, and that offer them a pathway to a successful future when they don't deserve one. They don't. They are taking advantage of a system in place that treats them differently.

Look at the crime, look at the criminal, look at the victim, look at the damage. Those are things that should be prioritized over and above this 17 year old who needs to be given a fair shake. I'm done with that. I'm done. Alright coming up, a conversation with an old friend. I love this woman. I'm so glad she's here. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and there are a lot of people out there who love to tell me, Ben, sit down and shut up because you're an idiot and our proof is that you used to host an entertainment television show. Okay, fine. I will not sit down. Well, I am sitting down, but I won't shut up. And so just nut up, grab a helmet.

I'm not going anywhere. But there were some wonderful times and I grew so much during those times where we were growing our show and I met so many great people. I met some not so great people as well, but one of the people at the top of that pyramid of incredibly incredible, generous, lovely, funny, talented people is my next guest, Jesse

Cruikshank, podcaster, comedian, live tour sensation. Welcome to the show. Hi, Ben. I've missed you. I've missed you so much. I am so happy you're doing this. You were great talking about celebrities with me. We hosted many a Golden Globe red carpet together. Yes, indeed. But you're so good at this. Thank you. Thank you. It takes a while sometimes before you find the thing that you're both good at and that you like. If you're lucky, you get to do both those things. Those Venn diagrams overlap. Do you know that I feel I just

found it as well in my career with my live tour? Yeah. I mean, to me, like standup was so terrifying. And when I finally did it, I thought to myself like, oh, this is what I have, what I meant to do. Yeah. It's pretty. What is it about the live experience? For me, it's that anything can happen. Yeah. I think I've always, I've always, I mean,

I started in improv. I was the only girl on an all boys improv team. And you're a ginge, right? So like you're, yeah, you're a minority amongst a minority. Wait, wait, why do you have to bring up my ginger status? I love your red hair. Yes. Yes, you have to defend yourself at a young age

when you're a ginge, especially growing up in less sensitive times. So the show went well, but for those who didn't attend, what is the Jesse Cruickshank experience live? Okay, so I just finished the, this tour was called the Now That's What I Call Live Tour. It was a 2000s themed cross country tour sold out all across this amazing country.

I asked women to come dressed. It was like an homage. A lot of my material was about this strange, like 2005 to 2012, that odd period. You and I knew each other well, worked together well at that time. I'm sure I was wearing very low rise pants. I'm sure you had some kind of-

I think I had some too. Some flare bottom pants, some really, really pointy shoes that it looked like I bought them from a wizard. Yeah. Big belt buckles. Did you ever wear like a mall kiosk fedora? No, no, I'm not a hat guy.

I'm a baseball hat guy. I've tried fedoras. I've tried the hat. I can't, you gotta know how the world sees you. And I would have looked, it would have looked very, very strange, but I suspect you wore hats. I think you did. Oh God. My husband will say the first time that we met in 2006,

I was wearing a, I don't know if you know this reference, Janet Jackson on the cover of poetic justice. It was like a baggy train conductor style denim hat. That's right. And the picture was her, from profile. Profile in the hat. See? It's like, it's ingrained in our right. And the picture was her from profile. Profile in the hat. See, it's like, it's ingrained in our minds. And you know, when you're looking at me with my flaming ginger hair,

do I not give the essence of Janet Jackson? A hundred percent. Absolutely. So my tour was 2000s themed. I asked people to dress up if they wanted to. I thought I would see a few velour tracksuits, right? Then thousands of women across this country, and men, shout out to the men who came in popped collars

and Ed Hardy t-shirts, came dressed in full on, like head to toe, Britney Spears outfits. Abercrombie. Abercrombie girls came dressed up as Pitbull, like people took the theme, Y2K preppers, like they took the theme and ran with it. It was the most incredible night out. And for me, it's just about giving millennial women

in this country, a lot of them are tired moms who don't go out much, like an excuse, an opportunity to get out, to laugh, to connect, right? We do it so rarely. But that's the energy you give off even when the cameras aren't on and like you're that kind of positive energy and you know for those who are watching or listening who are kind of kind of

Tangentially remember Jesse Cruikshank, I think It's so like one of the things that you contributed to pop culture was the the rise of the after show, right? Like it didn't exist before you and Dan Levy at MTV Canada did it. And to this day, it is now this value add for those shows that don't mean anything to some people, but to those they mean something to, it means everything. And that started with you.

How hard was it for you guys to get that off the ground? How hard was it? Like whose idea was it? How'd you wrap your head around what it was going to be? And are you impressed that it's still a thing so many years later? I'm blown away because at the time when they pitched this idea to Dan and myself,

it was strictly for Canadian content laws, right? In Canada at the time, if they were gonna air a 30 minute episode of Laguna Beach at the time and then the hills, they had to have 30 minutes of Canadian content to balance it out legally. So our bosses, this was Brad Schwartz, Mark McInnis, they were the heads of MTV Canada at the time,

they had this idea that it would be like a sports broadcast, like a post game show. Oh, you guys had the, you had the telestrator. It was like strictly based off of sports post game. Dan and I would sit and draw on people's faces and talk about what had just happened and we would fulfill our Canadian content laws.

Nobody cared if anybody watched, we were recording live. I think it started at 10.30 PM on Friday nights. We were drinking real alcohol in our martini glasses and truly we had no idea anybody would care. Yeah, cause next thing you know, in that building, you had hundreds, if not thousands of people who would show up for the after show. And then at one point you guys,

they started airing you on MTV proper in the United States. And look, it's a hard thing to get Americans to pay attention to Canadian content. The fact that you guys did so with their own thing. I mean, you beat them at their own game. You know what? We absolutely did. And do you know this?

This is a fact that the Hills After Show with Dan and Jesse was the first ever live simulcast television program from Canada to the US in Canadian television history. So you did pure Canadian content that people actually watched. You listening, CBC? Okay, let's move on because look,

there's a lot of talk about fires, fire safety. You know, we're gonna talk about this ridiculous fire story in just a minute, but you're supposed to feel safe in two places in my opinion. Kids are supposed to be safe in two places, their home and their school. And you're working on a project right now that is helpful, at least in the home.

Yes, so it sort of came out of my experience with the LA wildfires, which was January, but for us, we live in Los Angeles. My husband grew up in the Palisades. Oh boy. Yes, Ben was at our wedding, by the way. Yes, I was, oh, such a great wedding, I loved it. You know my husband grew up in the Palisades. Oh boy. Yes, Ben was at our wedding by the way. Yes I was, oh such a great wedding, I loved it. You know my husband well.

Ben is famous because Ben, sorry, this is we're really diverting from the wildfires. But we had these little chicken and waffle appetizers. Do you remember them? Couldn't believe it, yes, you inject the syrup into the chicken and waffle. Yes. Like what is this witchcraft?

Okay, so of course we're going to take our photos after the wedding and the reports I received from my friends, I wasn't there at that little cocktail hour, was that Ben Mulrooney was standing at the exit from the catering to stop and take all of the chicken and waffles so nobody else can get them. It's like when you know that the enemy is in a foxhole, you stand there and you train your rifle on the foxhole.

If they wanna come out, they have to meet their maker first. Okay. But we, so my husband, Evan, you witnessed our nuptials. He grew up in the Pacific Palisades. He watched his childhood home burned to the ground, his school, his friends and family lost everything. It was absolutely devastating.

And yet we were safe for many days. At one point I invited Heidi and Spencer, shout out to the- What? They asked to come and stay in our guest house because they had lost their home. We were trying to be the safe haven for our friends. We didn't think it would ever happen to us.

And then around 11 o'clock at night, a fire erupts in our neighborhood. And with the winds, things were moving so fast. We got an evacuation notice. And I mean, Ben, it was absolute chaos and an anxiety. This is your home. This is where your heart is. This is where your roots are. Three little kids. I'm ripping my seven year old twins. I'm ripping my three year old daughter out of their beds,

throwing them into the car. We we realized in that, we had no plan. And so I started to think about how my experience could inform other Canadians. As you know, we are in summer wildfire season, and in Canada, there are 10,000 house fires every year, over a hundred deaths. And yet there was this study done,

only 7% of parents in Canada have an actual fire escape plan. Okay. It's crazy. So how do we mitigate against how do we improve that number? Right. So for us, it was about getting our kids involved, right? Because at the end of the day, if you have little kids, you have to make sure they know

what's going on. They're not panicking. When we evacuated from the LA wildfires, we forgot our child's lizard. Oh boy. And this was as you can imagine. So there is a kitty with their Cause for Alarm campaign has launched this first of its kind digital tool. It's free to all Canadians at causeforalarm.org.

And it actually has an AR component that allows you to see what a fire would look like if it was burning in your home. It has this practice mode where you can set a two minute timer and practice physically with your family. It's really sort of a game of five. And the visual component showing your kids exactly how it works. That is how you engage them and you make it you make them feel like they're part of it as opposed to oh this is something mom and dad are making us do. Jesse, I wish we had more time. I'm so glad you came.

I'm so glad your family's safe. I'm so glad you're successful. So glad the kids are wonderful. I miss you, and I hope to see you again soon. Ben, right back at you, every single one of those things. Thank you for having me. All right, don't go anywhere when we come back. Look, you get caught drunk driving once, terrible.

Twice. Shame on everybody. Five times? We got to talk about that. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney Show. Thank you so much for joining us on this Friday, and thank you so much for joining us on every platform where we find ourselves. We find ourselves on radio and streaming apps as a podcast. We find ourselves on radio, on streaming apps, as a podcast.

We also are on social media, Ben Mulroney's show on pretty much every social media platform. So if you are curious about the show, don't wanna commit to the show, follow us on social media. You get a bite-sized piece of the show and if you like it, share it, join us.

We really do appreciate it, especially on Instagram. Apparently we are, as the kids would say, blown up. You've heard the news by now of a man arrested after a four vehicle crash over last weekend who had been previously convicted of impaired driving offenses on five, five separate occasions. Three people were taken to hospital, including a 21-year-old man

who remains in unstable critical condition and is expected to have long term life altering injuries. According to the news reports, the police are saying, this guy doesn't have a license and will never be licensed again. And yet he found himself behind the wheel of a car

after the first offense, the second offense, the third offense and the fourth to make car after the first offense, the second offense, the third offense, and the fourth to make it to a fifth offense. The final line of this piece in the star, the accused was held for a bail hearing and appeared at the Ontario Court of Justice in Brampton where he was released on bail with the condition that he could not drive a vehicle.

Oh, well that settles that, doesn't it? Now look, I'm coming at this from a guy drive a vehicle. Oh, well, that settles that, doesn't it? Now look, I'm coming at this from a guy in a chair. I may be not appreciating the nuance of this sort of situation. So here, to walk us through what we need to know and why, well, what we need to know full stop, we're joined by Ari Goldkind, great lawyer in the City of Toronto. Ari, thanks so much for being here. Good to be with you. And before we start, bless your heart for calling it social media. Nothing social about it is anti social and you do a great job on it. So I just had to say that. All right. Story. Yeah. What a story.

So tell me what, what is your experience as a lawyer with DUIs? So let's go to the lawyer part, but also the part where you said you're just a guy in a chair. And I actually think that's a throwaway line you mentioned but it has a lot of value and it should be taken seriously because the criminal justice system at its core Ben is supposed to reflect society's condemnation yeah of somebody's moral blameworthiness it's not supposed to be elites up in the sky in Ottawa it's supposed to reflect what crime and punishment and rules and civility reflect in our culture.

Otherwise it has no value and it has no buy-in. And I'm going to say a name to you that you will automatically know and you'll see the through line. I don't think there's a listener listening to you today right now or in a good clip on anti-social media that doesn't know the name Marco Muzzo. Yeah, of course.

There you go. Yeah, Marco Muzzo was the son of a very wealthy family who drove drunk, killed a whole bunch of people and to his, I mean, listen, the damage is done at that point. Correct. But correct me if I'm wrong, did he have a few offenses under his belt as well? So no, but what he did is he did something different than most, is he ate it. He accepted his fate. And so the reason, just so your audience knows, we don't pre-talk about these issues.

I said that name, you knew it right away, as do most people, at least Ontario, if not Canada. Here's the point. We have mothers against drunk driving. We have Marco Muzzo as the poster boy, sort of the Bernardo, if you get that reference, of drunk driving. We are going backwards though as a country Ben. That's the part of the story that jumps out to me. And as a lawyer, I'll get to that. And then we'll get back to the person in the chair, because I don't think the person in the chair,

your audience, the average person should ever be discounted. Well, because I know, because I don't want to be accused, I'm accused every day of rage farming, but I'm sorry, like the way I say it is, I'm governed by emotion on this, because we as a society identified this person with problematic behavior, not once, not twice, not three times, not four,

and those four times we were lucky enough to escape any sort of damage and injury to other people. And on this fifth time, he hurt somebody to the point that that person may not ever live the fullest expression of their life anymore. So, let's pick up from that point. There we go. That's where the anger for me comes from. If yeah, but that's an important point that again, I hear and you know, and you and I

are sort of shooting the breeze, but at a high level. okay. But if we were sitting together at a dining table and you said to me, you're rage farming or that's what your critics say, I'd say there's something wrong with your critics. When something is going wrong in the world, when something is happening right in front of us, when good old Kushal Kaseeram, that's his name, is on his fifth time and a 21 year old, not-year-old, even though that would be equally gross, but a 21-year-old has life-altering injuries when all he or she was doing was just going about their day. And right now people are listening to you, Ben.

We're at 930. People are taking their kids to camp. People are taking their kids to daycare. People are commuting who aren't lucky enough to work in person and Nobody nobody I don't even think you know But I think you do know the number of people on our roadways in the GTA Who are doing the same thing as this man unlicensed the difference here Ben And this is the part that I don't think gets enough attention

But you highlighted it the last note of every story is, but he got bail. Yeah. Now, how in the world can our bail system, and again, I'm going to take my defense lawyer hat off for a minute because if I was his lawyer, I would do everything I could to get him bail and I would hopefully succeed. But I'm here to give you more of a down the middle part. Okay. Yeah.

How in the world does he get bail? First question, did the crown consent to his bail? That would be something we would want to know if the crown did not consent to his balance and hold on a moment. This guy should not get bail. He's a ticking, driving time bomb. No promise he makes no order the court makes will be followed. He's proven it. He's proven it. And by the way, Ari, there must be people in this guy's life who have begged and pleaded with him to get help. There are services and resources available to help you if you are in the throes of addiction.

And despite that, despite being told by society that you are putting people in danger, he is choosing to go play Russian roulette with somebody else's life. And this time, the bullet actually was in the chamber. And yeah, go on. No, no, but here, I'm gonna take it in a darker direction.

You say there's people in his life who wanna help him getting counseling, treatment, alcoholics, anonymous. I say there are people in his life who enabled this. I say there are people in his life that turned a blind eye. How did he get in the eye. How did he get in a car? How did he get keys? Whose car was it? That's a really, really significant problem to me. And when you, again, I want to take this back to the first point. You're not a lawyer. Well, you are, but you know, let's move on. The point is how deep into the weeds

do you need to go that a person who's done this two times, three times, four times, not only is back out living amongst us, but a court sees fit to release him on bail with the very same promise that he's made to four previous judges. And remember, Ben, he's had mandatory minimums in jail for the second and the third and the fourth this to me is why you have a lot of talk amongst the Conservative Party and by the way a lot of people in the Liberal Party too it's not as bipartisan as people think that there's a real problem happening in our system the problem is the people who know the most are often the people that are the quietest in the system,

because you sort of have to pay a price. If you rock the apple cart. Yeah. Well, you said you're rage farming. I think not being rageful about this sort of thing. Well, as I said, you go to work, you take your kids, you're doing this. I think to be able to say about this. Yeah, I think that would be crazy. Ari Golkhan, the time to be polite on something like this has long since passed. And now it's time to be angry. And I want to thank you so much for at least giving us information to inform that anger.

We really appreciate your time today. I hope you have a great weekend and a safe weekend, my friend. Good to talk to you. Thank you. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks so much for joining us. One of the best parts of living in a big, multicultural city like Toronto

is when the summer happens, it opens up. It's the season of festivals. It's when parks become coming together of music and merchants and energy. It's an alchemy that you only get in a big city. And it's magical in a place like Toronto over the course of those summer months. And so to hear that the AfroFest, which is an African music festival,

largest African music festival in North America, through their programming over the years, Afrofest has become one of the most important African cultural organizations in Canada. It takes place at Woodbine Park every year, this year, July 4 through 6, with 55 performers. This, if this is an itch that you have, Afrofest scratches that itch. But to hear the stories of, you know, too many people getting in, and someone caught with a handgun at one of the entrances,

and a kid setting off fireworks, which then led to a stampede which injured some people. This is the time now, because that was a few days ago, the time is now to ask what went wrong? Where were the pain points? Where were the choke points? And how can a festival like this move forward? How can they then tell people who might be worried about next year to say, hey, we're going to, it's safe now. We figured it out. It's gonna be okay. To join us now to discuss this, we're very pleased to have Peter Toh,

the executive and artistic director of AfroFest, joining us. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show, sir. Thanks for having me. I have to believe that on the eve of AfroFest, you were excited, you were optimistic. And then to find out, for the festival to get this black eye has

got to be it must have been confusing and angering but maybe now that you have some more information you're prepared to move forward tell me where your heads at right now well right now it's a bit of quite disappointed and it weighs heavy on the organizers or all of us who put so many hours to make sure that we have a peaceful event. Of course. It kind of at some point you sit back and you question yourself and what you're doing. Yeah. I mean you know the value of the work that is being put in but now you still have to question yourself because you're doing something which you feel is make the city what it is, brings life to people. But on the flip side, you have a situation where by the virtue of your own actions, as in by virtue of the work that you do, there's a tendency of people to get hurt. Yeah. Well, so, so, so let, let, let's talk about this, uh, Peter, because, you know, I, I wonder,

were there warning signs leading up to this critical mass of, uh, where so many things contributed to what was supposed to be a celebration turns into, you know, more or less of a disaster where w was anybody on the ground saying, you know what, we're letting too many people in like, how did that happen, sir? Let's, let's address these point by point. If the capacity was just over 20,000, how did 30,000 people end up at this event? So it's an open park, it's a free event. So with with quite a few entrance points. So being that it is free, we have, we would not stop anybody from coming in. We had adequate security at all the checkpoints,

at all the entrances of the event, but we don't police people as they come in. And this is not something that we've ever done. Yeah, okay. On the one hand, sometimes what I look at it is, it's also because considering that AfroFest has always been peaceful, it is the mentality of the people that come to the event.

People are coming in to have a good time, people are coming in to celebrate the culture. So we understood that this is what people are coming to do. Now, unfortunately, while our security and for the most part, and I received the security report yesterday, for the most part, everything was under control. But now what I got to understand is on the Saturday, there was actually a TikTok challenge of individuals asking who can cause the most commotion at Afrofest and somebody said, hey, you guys need to pay attention to what is happening online, what is happening on TikTok during your event because people can start

certain things which while you are at the event and making while you're making sure that the patrons at the event are having a good time. There are other people who are there with different motivations. So thank you. That's a piece of information I did not have. But that does flow into the next question. I think a lot of listeners would have is what was the relationship? What was the staffing, what were the resources available to AfroFest with regard to Toronto Police Service?

I remember prior to the Pride event, you had some voices within the police community saying about Pride specifically, we are understaffed, we don't have enough people to help keep the peace and our fear is that people are going to get hurt. Now nothing came to pass at Pride, but it feels to me like perhaps we could ask the question, what they worried about Pride, is that what happened at AfroFest? So the way events go is if you have 100 security guards at an event and say 100 police officers officers and something happens everybody's going to say that was not enough. Yeah. And if you

have two security guards and two police officers and nothing happens they will say that too was too much. You know so sometimes it's yes we can because as an event we had multiple meetings with the Toronto police, with our security team, to make sure that everybody was on the same page. Yeah. So on the security side, we've never had this number of security guards that have offended ever. So after looking at the security report and Annala talking to your staff, you're comfortable

saying that I'm sure there were a number of issues, but the biggest problem here was this tick tock challenge about who could cause the most chaos. Yes, somewhat that. And the other part of it is, and this is on our own side at event organizers, and as somebody who works on the programming of the event. Previously, the mentality of our event was we bring in artists to perform and it has been that. In the past years, I think in the past two years,

there's been a complaint that we are not doing much for the younger audience and most of the time people consider AfroFest to be an older audience event. So we decided to have more youth programming. And one of the things we did was to start a block party on Friday in which the youth can come out and have a good time with DJs and the people from answers.

And just as a direct correlation to that is the two years that we've had issues at AfroFest are the two years that we've had a block party. So it's so so you I don't want to make broad generalizations. And I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth. But it does seem that the the the younger element is is the problem. I will not go as far as saying that the younger element is the issue at Afrofest. I would say the programming of the show. Okay, that's that's okay. I appreciate the distinction. We don't we don't have a lot of time left. But I do want to say

that, you know, our intern, Martha was who's new to Canada, as a matter of fact, a new Canadian as of very recently, was so excited to go to AfroFest and her heart was really breaking for the merchants who set up kiosks. This was going to be one of those moments where they could get the word out about what they sell to the community and the fact that it was cut short is something of significance. What do you tell the stakeholders? And we don't have a lot of time left in about 30 seconds. What do you tell them about coming back next year

and enjoying AfroFest in a way that everybody deserves? So AfroFest has two sections. We've got the barbara stage, which is for the younger audience, the main stage. All our merchants are on the main stage area. So yes, there was a bit of commotion at Afrofest, but it really never had a significant impact on the merchants. Most of the merchants that I spoke to were happy with the turnout and the business that they did. Well Peter Towe, we're going to have to leave it there. I want to thank you for coming on our show

and sharing your story with the audience. And please, as you move towards turning the page on this and you want to share any updates on AfroFest for next year, please join us here. Okay, will do. Ever tried walking and tasting greatness at the same time? Meet the Walking Shwarma, Osmo's legendary shwarma, layered on crunchy Doritos and made to move with you. It's bold, it's portable, it's a street food remix

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