The Ben Mulroney Show - The Toronto cast -- pools and schools

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Guests and Topics: - Brad Bradford -Tasha Kheiriddin If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://link.chtbl.com/bms Also, on youtube -- https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We hope you got through the heat yesterday and we hope you are ready for it again today. I told you guys that last, on Sunday, we had a blackout in our area. We lost power for three, four hours. And my sense was that was because of an overload. My sense was everybody turned on the air conditioning, turned it up to 11, and you got what you got. It looks like that that blackout had migrated just a few blocks west from where I live, because businesses and businesses and homes in and around Yonge and St. Clair, endured a blackout yesterday for a big chunk of the day.

And to the point that I actually have a company that I work with, they have their corporate offices at Young and St. Clair, 15 St. Clair East. We couldn't have any remote meetings because they had no internet. And I think to myself, yeah, I always look at it from the perspective of being at my place. Every blackout I've ever experienced,

with the exception of the massive one, what 20 some odd years ago, happened while I was at home. So I'm always stuck in this frame of mind of, what do you do as a family when you have a blackout? I sometimes struggle to remember that businesses are massively affected by this as well. How much lost revenue, how much lost income, how much lost time, productivity because

of one of these blackouts. And we'll you'll remember that the the line one going north and south through the St. Clair station on Yonge Street below Yonge Street, it just bypassed it. People couldn't stop there. And these are all these lost opportunities that a city like Toronto seems to endure. I don't know. I can't say more than other cities, because I don't know. But it just feels like we've punted the ball on so many

things, so many important investments in this city, that we find ourselves behind the eight ball trying to build a 21st century city with early 20th century infrastructure. If we had invested in as of the 1970s or 80s in like one kilometer of transit, underground transit every year since the 80s, we would have one of the most robust and sophisticated underground transit networks year since the 80s. We would have one of the most robust and sophisticated underground transit networks

on the planet. Instead, we do it in fits and starts, and then we have a moment like now where all levels of government have committed to the Ontario line, the expansion of the LRTs. All of that could have been happening over the course of years if we had just been measured, if we had just been measured, if we had just been responsible, and we had built this stuff out with foresight and with

planning. And the same goes with planning for a heat wave like the one we've been enduring. Yesterday it boggled the mind to come into work and read the news that the city of Toronto closed some of its pools for a certain amount of time because it was too hot. That's the most Toronto thing that this city could do. And Toronto's got a Toronto, I get it. But that was, I mean, how embarrassing is that? How embarrassing is it that something designed

to beat the heat was closed because it was too hot? And so many questions came of that when the mayor, more questions came up when the mayor sort of came out and gave her apology-ish where she said, what did she say? What was the line she used? Oh, the provincial heat warning protocol, something like that, kicked in. That was the expression, kicked in.

So the implication was it was automatic and we had to do it. If it's kicked in, then there's no choice, right? You are sort of beholden to the protocol. Except from what I understand, you got places like Scarborough, or not Scarborough, you got places like Mississauga that endured the exact same heat wave that said that kept their pools open.

And when the question was put to people at the city, well, how come the beaches remained open? How come the lifeguards, the beaches were open? They said, oh, well, the humidex wasn't as high there, which then begs the question, do we have city staff going around from place to place? What's a, Mike, what's the name of the machine? A hygrometer, apparently a hygrometer

is a machine that can let you know what the humidity is So you're telling me city of Toronto that you had foot soldiers going out and about to public spaces Where there are public employees with a hygrometer to decide whether or not? the the humidex had reached a level where you had to Where the where the provincial? Humidex protocol, quote unquote, kicked in. That's what you're telling us. I don't believe you. I do not believe you. What I do believe is you have someone in charge of pools, someone in charge of golf courses, someone in charge of beaches, and the guy or the girl or the person in charge of pools was a dumb ass. And they decided they were going to close the pools because it was too hot.

That's what I believe. That's what I believe. And until someone tells me otherwise, I'm going with that story. I'm going with that story. And just for context, let's remind everybody about our mayor's apology on the pools.

Notice that as temperatures rose, health and safety standards came into effect that closed a few pools. We apologize for that. This cannot happen again. Yeah, sorry. That's a sort of I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

But really, it's kind of a deflection to I really want to hear we messed up. I really want to hear we messed up. I really want to hear we messed up. And let's remember that in the last calendar year, this city has demonstrated that it is incapable of dealing with excess rain. Remember when the Gardner flooded, excess snow, and now excess heat. Now, I understand that the rain that we endured but this time last year that was pretty bad that was pretty bad but it goes back

to what I said at the beginning investments over the course of decades that could have been made were not made and then we had to deal with what we dealt with last year. The snow we saw saw that coming. The heat, we saw that coming. So never before has there been more of a burden placed on the taxpayer. And never before have we gotten less for our money. This city does not have a revenue problem. This city has a spending problem.

This city likes to light money on fire and have a party with their pet projects and their redundancies and God knows how many and the city staff running amok coming up with plans to turn Billy Bishop into a park. And instead when it comes to something like, God, the story that a young child fell to their death because it was too darn hot in their apartment building and they were just trying to beat the heat on the balcony is exactly the problem here. I mean, that's a tragic end to a story

that should never have happened. But what it also speaks to is the fact that, I said it myself, I'm very lucky to have a pool, very lucky to have a pool. But because I have that pool, I appreciate what the public pools mean to Torontonians. Torontonians who pay for those pools with their tax dollars. And if they can't go to a pool on the one day

where they need it the most, then the city has failed you. And we deserved, those people, deserved an apology, far more sincere and far more honest and forthright than what they got from the mayor yesterday. To the city of Toronto, to the people who depend on these pools, to the families that looked forward to the heat, I say from the bottom of my heart, I am sorry.

We failed you. We failed you. I don't want excuses. I don't failed you. I don't want excuses. I don't want reasons. I don't want passing of the buck. I want an apology and a commitment to do better. And I didn't get that yesterday. And the people who were waiting in line

and were told come back later, they deserve far better from a city that failed them yet again. I think we got Adam on the phone. Hey, Adam, welcome to the show. Hi, so I when I first heard this story, I said, Oh, lifeguard needs a cooling down. If only that a place to cool down in the heat. If only there was a place where a lifeguard could find a little respite from the heat. Well, I was a lifeguard for three years.

You get in the pool for five, for two minutes, and you get back up on the chair. That's what you always do. Exactly. Hey, thank you for the call, Adam. Hey, before we go to break, I want to take a quick little audio of Councilor Burnside on what he thinks about this.

For me, it's just about making the city a better place. And she's got to take responsibility beyond the sorry. Not trying to be funny here but I don't even know if she could run a lemonade stand. There's just nothing. Listen, I won't resort to that sort of commentary but somebody needs to say stuff like this. I mean we're either a world-class city or we're not. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. We're talking pools this morning because people didn't have access to them this weekend when they needed them the most. And we heard from the we heard a lot of excuses, a lot of punting the ball, a lot of shifting the blame from City Hall and from the mayor. And so here to talk about what went wrong, how to fix it,

and what this says about where we are as a city. We're joined by the Council for Beaches East York, Brad Bradford. Brad, welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for having me, Ben. Yeah, listen, I pointed out that we failed at when there was too much rain, when there was too much snow, and now when there was too much humidity, apparently.

Like, is there anything that this city can handle? Well the city doesn't pick up the leaves anymore in Etobicoke and I know that bothers the residents out there as well so all four seasons kind of coming up short right now. Yeah I don't understand it and when when the city was pressed as to well if the why the pools were closed but not necessarily the the the beaches here in the city of Toronto. They said, oh, well, the humidex is, the humidity was lower by the water. Now that may be the case, but implicit in that explanation is that somebody was walking around with a hygrometer

studying and analyzing the humidex. There's no way that happened. There's no way that somebody was walking around like a humidity flavor flave, trying to figure out if the humidity was just at the right point to keep something open or close it. To me, that that that answer falls short. I think somebody who's in charge of pools just made a boneheaded decision.

Yeah, that's that's nonsense, right? And the Parks Department has become increasingly notorious for dropping the ball on a bunch of different things. Remember, these were the same folks that tried to ban defogging a year or two ago. Right. Yeah, I remember talking to you about that. So, you know, it's another boneheaded decision. There's a real lack of common sense at City Hall right now. And this is the latest example. You know, as a father of two kids, you have to be able to get them out to the pool.

It is one of the best things about Toronto is our pool and recreation centres. When it is hot out, when it is 40 plus with the humidex, people have to have access to somewhere to cool off. It is inexcusable to have those clothes. You look at other jurisdictions, whether that is

Mississauga, Montreal, or cities like jurisdictions, Ben, whether that is Mississauga right next door, Montreal, or cities like, I don't know, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, none of them are closing pools because it's hot out. It is such a Toronto fail. Oh yeah. But Brad. To be closing the pools because of the heat. Brad, pull the veil back for us. Like, I don't, I'm not sitting here thinking that the mayor Pull the veil back for us. Like, I don't, I'm not sitting here thinking

that the mayor picked up the phone and said, the human decks hit 45, close the pools. Like that wasn't her doing it. Happened on her watch and therefore she's responsible, but she didn't, she's not the actual person who made that call. Where is the failure in the system? I don't know the ins and outs of city hall

or the city staff or how these different departments work. Where is the failure? Well, you know what? Like, yeah, there's definitely some bureaucrat that was interpreting a policy framework, which is not a rule of the law, by the way, but a policy framework about staffing requirements when it's hot out. And that's fine.

But where the ball was really dropped is at the top with the CEO of the city who is the mayor and a lack of leadership and accountability and what I mean by that is we knew this heat wave was coming yeah in fact the city of Toronto spent a lot of time and money putting out social media posts effectively lecturing people to stay home because it's hot out so we we knew that we communicated it all last week what didn't happen was the mayor picking up the phone and talking with the parks and rec department and saying look Not even do we have enough staffing? But look the pools are going to be slammed this weekend But you might you might start thinking about how do you plan for crowd control?

Because the pools are going to be so packed Yeah, and that conversation have obviously never took place because that would have immediately led to staffing considerations, both for the heat and the capacity challenges that were inevitably going to come with it. And this was totally manageable. Again, you look at cities like Mississauga, others in the GTA, they were able to manage, you know, you might need to have additional staff, whether that is overtime hours or calling the managers outside of the union, bring them in. Lord knows we have a ton of middle management in the parks department at City Hall that

the mayor has hired. Bring them in to help staff and make sure that we have the resources in place. That conversation clearly did not happen. The bureaucrat was following a policy framework and you know to a degree their hands are sort of tied but it it obviously shows up in a lack of common sense. Well I don't know if their hands were tied but Brad I don't know if their hands were tied because when Doug Ford was asked you know about this this provincial uh regulation or stipulation or recommendation he said this is not on us. The city gets more money from from from the province than it ever has before. And they should have figured this out. So he definitely

wasn't having any of that. Yeah, no. And it's absolutely it's absolutely correct. My read of this is it's a it's a policy framework. It's a guideline. And again, you put the staff and the resources in place to mitigate the challenges of working in the heat. You know, I have lots of friends who are frontline law enforcement. I don't know if you've ever put on the 40, 50 pounds of kit that they're walking around in bulletproof vest, gun belts, all that stuff. But they're not going home because it's hot.

No, like there's a lot of people that have to go to their job even when it's hot out. And Brad, Brad, they they're working next to a pool. If they are hot, they can jump in. Like this is why this is a microcosm of sort of decisions that are made at City Hall where it is so untethered from reality, so far from anything that makes logical sense. Like these are people who need to be bubble wrapped

when before they leave the house. If this is the logic that they live by And the decision they make I don't trust them to do anything like nothing my friend nothing Well, and I think there's a lot of there's a lot of people that feel that way You know myself included Ben and it's a culture problem And so again you can we can parse out who was responsible for the individual decisions But ultimately there is a culture where there is a lack of leadership. There is a lack of accountability and nobody that wants to own the issues and

bring solutions for. But Brad, does it does it have something to do with possibly you're talking about a culture? Is there a culture at City Hall? And I'm saying that writ large. You can drill down and tell me where, if I'm right in certain aspects, but is there a culture where the people who work there and make these decisions don't think to themselves,

we work for the taxpayer, and the taxpayer is going through a very hot day and they pay for this pool, and we are gonna do everything we can to service the taxpayer and give them relief from the heat. Instead, they say, oh, we've got, wait, that's too hot for the lifeguards. And so we got to close it. Like, is that what's going on? The longer folks are there, there becomes this mentality that you adopt and it is, it

is the inclination to defend the indefensible. These guys will rationalize the most irrational decisions. There is not a mentality of customer service. There is not a mentality of respect to taxpayers. It is a process and a bureaucratic first mentality. And the opposite or the downside of that is you'll lose perspective of common sense and your average everyday Torontonian

who is now paying more than ever for the services that ought to be provided, but you're paying more and you're getting less. So it's the inclination of the mayor and the top bureaucrats to defend the indefensible. This is indefensible. There's no rationale about folks at the pool shutting that thing down when it's 40 plus with the humidex.

Well, I'm glad that you brought that up because in our next segment, we're talking with a parent from Rosedale Heights School for the Arts. And there's a, the TDSB wants to turf the, essentially the man who willed that school into creation, the principal Barry Sketchley. And the parents and the students have said

they want to keep him for his final year before he retires. And the TDSB, as you said, is trying to defend a boneheaded decision to get rid of him. And they are digging in their heels. We're gonna talk about that in the next segment. So you're right, there's a culture of self-righteousness that overwhelms what should be the guiding principle of so many of these bureaucrats and people who work

in service of students, in service of taxpayers, where they believe they know best, and they don't believe that the, ultimately they need to service the people who pay the taxes, who fund all of these services. And you know what? When you screw things up and you make a mistake, you gotta own it.

Yeah. This was clearly a mistake. The mayor left the city down down and what does she do? She calls an emergency press conference that was very difficult to sort of understand what the point was or the rationalization. And rather than just coming out and saying, you know what, we screwed this up, I dropped the ball and here's how I'm going to make it better, she goes down and starts blaming the premiers, starts blaming the Ministry of Labour, all of this nonsense. And I think Torontonians are getting sick and tired of being treated like they're stupid because they're not. The problem, Brad, unless somebody comes out and clearly accepts responsibility and demonstrates

that they understand what they did wrong, then it's entirely possible that this mistake will repeat itself. Like if they can't say, I know where the failing is, I take responsibility for it. If they say that, then I will say, okay, you know what went wrong, and therefore you know that you can't allow it to happen again. But if you're obfuscating and if you're playing a shell game of responsibility, then it might not be pools next time, but it might be this sort of failure will repeat itself somewhere else in the city. We all make mistakes, but you gotta own them. This is, as you said off the top, this is another version of the same same tune and with the snow removal. Now the mayor disappeared for 11 days. The City of Toronto did not remove any snow.

Well they hoped it would melt away. Hey, Brad Bradford, we got to go. I appreciate your time. And again, I love the image of a bunch of guys with a giant Flava Flav style humidity detector walking around the city trying to determine what we can keep open or not. Your tax dollars at work.

Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Brad. Welcome back to the Ben. Thanks, Brad. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And if you're listening on as a podcast, we say thank you. If you're listening on a streaming app, we say thank you. And if you're listening on the Chorus Radio Network, I say thank you. Also, if you're listening and you can see my face, that means you're watching on YouTube. And I salute you with my hand and you can see that. I was introduced to the Rosedale School for the Arts a few months ago by a good friend, Tasha Carradon, who when we talk often on this show, we talk about politics and her role as a

journalist. But today we are joined by her yet again in her awesome responsibilities as a parent of a student at the Rosedale School of the Arts. And this is a fascinating school because it used to be just a regular public school in the city. And one man in particular willed a school for the arts. He manifested it. He built it. It was his vision and he worked tirelessly to make it happen. And it was a gem, is a gem in the city of Toronto.

Well, for reasons that we will get into in just a moment, the TDSB has decided that the year before he was set to retire, they were going to move him to another school. The parents, the students who love him and admire him and wanted him to stay and end his career in a manner fitting of the accomplishments of his career, mobilized in the hopes of swaying the TDSB. And well, to get a lay of the land

and a snapshot of where we are in this battle, let's welcome Tasha Carradine to the show. Tasha, thanks so much for being here. Oh, hi, Ben. Thank you. Okay, so fill in the blanks and give us an update. So as you said, yes, the students have now helped three protests to protest different levels of decision making in this process. They came out on their lawn, a thousand of them came walked out of school the first time a couple weeks ago. Then we had a visit with the parent committee. We had two superintendents of the TDSB come and talk to us

and basically simply explain to the parent committee why they can't change the decision. And the kids were standing outside the library windows with signs for an hour holding them in the windows where we had the meeting. The dedication is off the charts. Then we had, we went to the TDSB last week because they had their last meeting of the year

of the board and I was out there with the kids. We were chanting in the rain, you know, TDSB can't stop me, I will fight for Sketchly. Then they went inside with T-shirts on that said students for Sketchly. But they made this themselves. They did all this stuff. The parents are like on for the ride, we're with them. They sat there in a silent protest.

And when the director of education, Clayton Latouche, was asked by another, by a trustee, are you going to reverse this decision? He said, no. The kids stood up, screamed shame and walked out. It was like, yeah, they are so dedicated. So now we're at a situation where- But hold on. Before we continue, let's just give a little more context to the listeners

who are new to this story. And like I said, Principal Sketchley was it 30 years ago, willed this school into existence and has been a gem in the TDSB where kids of talent and of passion could come and be working a, creative environment within the public school system. And what's notable is he has been the principal since the inception of this art school, which is unheard of. Typically, principals stick around for a short period of time and they're rotated elsewhere. But he's been able to stay there for the duration of his career, looking to retire next year from what I understand. But talk to me about what you believe was the turning point that had the TDSB sort of decide.

No, you're done there, sir. Well, we believe it has to do with school lottery that was brought in a few years ago, two years ago to be exact, where the system to accept students to schools like ours, which are considered specialty schools in the TDSB, they have a focus, could be STEM, it could be arts in our case. The method of admitting these kids

used to be a variety of things, it could have been merit test exams. In our case, it was interest and passion that had to be demonstrated, not an audition, but the kids met, literally they all met with Barry, our principal. He reviewed every application. He went to communities like Regent Park where kids wouldn't have had music lessons, for example, to meet with a direct to see, do you have kids who are interested, who have a passion? Like kids got so it was a very, you know, the school had had control over

this but exercise it in a way to get kids who really wanted to be there. That was taken away with a lottery, which is a central process where kids literally have to just tick a box and say, I wanna go there. Don't have to be artistic, don't have to be interested. We have seen a change in the school as a result, kids coming in just because their parents

want them to go there, it's a safe place or it's a close spot. So he, so since, just to let you know, since we have been fighting for Barry for the last three weeks, I've received multiple letters from parents saying he admitted my child outside of the lottery process through a transfer because my kid was being bullied at their school. My kid didn't get in through the lottery. So Barry took it upon himself as a caring, compassionate principal to bring kids who could really thrive

in our very welcoming, inclusive environment. Lots of kids who are LGBT, lots of kids who are on the spectrum. I met a number of kids when I toured the school for the fundraiser a couple of months ago. I couldn't believe I didn't know about this school. It is really, it is a high watermark for the TDSB. And it's because of the work of this one, well, not, it's because of the leadership of this one man and those who have followed his vision. So where do you go from here?

You got this TDSB director, Clayton Latouche versus the parents and the students, I guess. Well, that's where we had sort of gotten to that point. We have written now an open letter to the trustees asking them to address the concerns of the director, suspend the director for not just this decision, but multiple other ones which we feel he has taken that are not reflective of the community. The special needs, special education community, disability advocates are also unhappy with the way things have been handled. Trustees have voted on a number of issues where their votes have basically not counted and staff have done what they wanted to do

anyway. Trustees are frustrated. We have several trustees who have written to the director now saying reverse this decision. So we know that there is a problem there. So we're saying- Is this something that could be escalated, Tasha, to the Paul Kalandra, the Ontario Minister of Education? We have, yes, we absolutely have written to Paul Kalandra. Because he's put the TDSB on notice for a number of reasons.

Oh, he has. And this is my point, is that we are just one of the many things that is wrong with the relationship of the TDSB, of its board, of its staff and the community. There is a disconnect. And so yes, if the minister puts the board under supervision, which he has said he may do,

we definitely want this decision reversed. We have made that known to him that we want him to do whatever he can do to help us. And you know, this is but this should never have happened in the first place is my point that not have escalated to this level. The TDSP has an obligation. In fact, the director, they have an obligation to consult the community when they want to move someone.

They didn't do that. They picked the box. Well, look, it, Tasha, we just talked to Brad Bradford in the previous segment that if people are in, if bureaucrats are in their jobs for too long, they forget that accountability is a one way street. It is the functionaries who are accountable to you, the parents, not the other way around. And they owe you accountability. And absent that, they are in dereliction of duty.

No, I agree. And this is the piece that has to be fixed. The TDSP, the structure is broken. It does not connect the community to the actual system. It is there's walls of staff trustees. And even the trustees, like I said, are frustrated because of politics with the staff. So that has to be removed. The priority should be our education, parents voices and student voices that have been so eloquent in this have to be heard. So we hope the minister is listening. Like I said, it shouldn't come to this. But if it does, we

need all the help we can get to keep principal sketchly for just one more year. And that's it. He just wants to close out his career with this at the school that he helped build. Exactly. I mean, it is disrespectful to him and it's disrespectful to our school community. Yeah. And I mean, are you, and we only have just a one minute left. So just really quickly, is part of the ambition of this plan to keep him, does that have anything to do with reversing the decision on the lottery or is the issue, is the TDSB's issue that he just doesn't like the lottery? Oh, he has opposed it. Yeah. He's quoted in our community. on the lottery or is the issue is that TDSB's issue that he just doesn't like the lottery?

Oh, he has opposed it. Yeah, but he's not actively trying to get rid of it. He just want to go out, he went on record. He's not on record that he thinks it does hurt our school. We lose 25 students every year because kids sign up and then don't come. This never happened when they had to actually try to get in because they wanted to be there.

So our school will literally shrink and disappear. So he's been fighting for that. And they don't like it. We feel that that is one of the main reasons that they are making an example of him. And it's just so wrong. All right, Tasha, keep us updated, because this is a story that we really want to follow. All the best to you. Thank you. Do you believe that a city and its city government and those who work for the city work for you,

the taxpayer? Because if you do, then you should take issue with a great many things that have been lining up as issues that we face as a city. The fact that the pools were closed, the fact that, I don't know, bike lanes that were supposed to be pilot projects all of a sudden immediately, once they were approved, started putting down permanent structures. The fact that this one school in Toronto has made a unilateral decision, despite the parents, despite the students, to turf the much-beloved, essentially, founder of the school and principal against the wishes of those who are most deeply affected by it. If you are like me, then you are angry.

And you believe that the city needs a reset. And they need to be reminded who they actually work for. Let's hear from you, because not all of you are going to agree with me. Frank, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Well, Ben, I agree with everything you just said, except for the last one. Which is?

In regards to the principal Mulroney show. Well, Ben, I agree with everything you just said, except for the last one. Which is? In regards to the principal in the school. OK, tell me why. I think there's a reason why that we don't know that they're moving this individual or want to move the individual. And just because you have some kids, some parents that say, geez, don't do that.

We can't do that, that the city do that. Uh, that the city should listen. Well, and Frank, and Frank, hold on, let me just give you a little more context. Cause I don't know if you know all of it. He's been the principal there for over 30 years. He's got one year left before his retirement. He is the person who spearheaded taking a traditional TDSB public school and turning it into a school for the arts, which is exceptional in the TDSB. The people there love, the test scores, the graduation scores are through the roof compared to the average across the TDSB. There is no issue with his performance.

There is no issue with his relationship with the students, with the teachers, with the parents. And they wanna move him out because two years ago, they moved to a lottery system and he took issue with that. And you think that's fair. You think that's accountability. You think that is the way the system should work. I do just because they've changed the system. There's a reason why they've changed the system. Now this guy doesn't want to follow the direction. No, no, no, he's not trying to change. Frank and I'm not trying to be, I'm just trying to have a conversation with

you. He's not trying. He did nothing except express his disappointment with the change in the system. So essentially what we're saying is him speaking his opinion is, is, is, is, is forcing him out of a role that, that he has acquitted himself of with honor for three decades. Yeah, I understand what you're saying that, but is he following the rules that they provided right now or is he not? If you can, if you can say with a straight face that expressing an opinion breaks a rule, uh, then, then, then, then we can agree to disagree. But if everybody should be able to express her opinion.

So, so, so we're still living in Canada. Well, exactly. So that don't you think that's a problem that the TDSB is taking a monumental change that is disappointing every major stakeholder because they don't like the opinion expressed by this person? Well, I think you have me a little bit on that one in regards to that. But my problem is with the individuals, everybody standing up and saying, you know, we want to change this, we're going to change this, or we're going to walk if we don't get our own way. Oh, and listen, and I listen,

protest for the sake of protest, like what we're witnessing in the in the in the cities. But these are and I thank you for your call, Frank. And I really appreciate the back and forth and I really do appreciate it. And I love it when people call and disagree with me. And I hope we can do it more often. But look, fundamentally, this is not protest for the sake of protest. These are the people deeply impacted by this decision. And this is a TDSB making a decision in a vacuum

because they don't like this guy, despite the people who are interfaced with this man every single day. And that is where my problem lies. They are not recognizing the fundamental dynamic that they are accountable to the parents, not the other way around. Time to welcome Boris to the show.

Boris, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Ben, I don't know how you keep talking about stuff I'm interested in, but keep it up. Thank you. Friday. Yeah. Okay. There's just this lack of consideration for the people who live here. Friday, they closed the Lake Shore down from four lanes to one at 6 PM. And you're trying to get somewhere. Why did they close it down? Well, when we got to the Humber River where it was closed down, there was two steel plates on the road with pylons. So they took out three lanes, forcing everybody into one lane and get the job finished and

get it done if that's a safety concern or whatnot. But you just can't have such lack of regard for the impact on people who need to get around. I agree. I agree. There's, there's, there's, there's not the, um, the speed with which the work is done is not commensurate with the, um, with how much respect the city owes the taxpayer. And I thank you for the call.

I want to get a few more in. Uh, and, but yeah, like, look, whether it's traffic, whether it's bike lanes, whether it's education, whether it's recreation, it seems to me that every single day, we almost every day, we have an example of a city forgetting who they work for. And I go to what Brad Bradford said, that people who work for the city for too long, tend to forget that they tend to think that we are the ones accountable to them, we have to prove ourselves to them. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you have lost the plot. Mike, welcome to the show. Yeah, hey, listen, I think it's, it's a pity that this guy wasn't rotated out 20 years ago, because he probably could have changed a lot of other schools in the same way that he transformed that one possibly. He serves at the

pleasure of the school board. If he still enjoys his job, he should accept the fact that you know in that career you're subject to get rotated from one school to another. I know plenty of educators and there you know that happens. Sure,- Sure. Sure. No, no. And I understand that. I also know that exceptions prove the rule. And this school is the exception. It is not like other schools. It is a school for the arts.

And he was the architect of it. And for whatever reason- And that's what they need. Hold on. Hold on. I'll let you talk in a sec. Hold on. I'll let you talk in a sec.

But for whatever reason, they allowed him to stay there. There was excellence at that school for three decades, no complaints about him. The moment that he expressed an issue with a decision by the TDSB, that's when they decided to turf him one year before. And perhaps that he does indeed serve at the pleasure of the TDSB, but the TDSP serves serves the people they are above

the TDSP. Anyway, I'll let you have the last word on this real quick. Okay. Well, there are lots of people that need to be served by that school board. They're not all in that one school district. There's lots of people in other schools that would love to have his foresight, his knowledge, his vision. He's retiring in a year.

Oh, so what? So then listen, if we're gonna pay him, if he's gonna demand a salary for that last year, Ben, he should be able to earn the salary. I think this is very different from your normal standpoint something. I think if we're talking about a military general who is demanding not to be transferred

because he's about to retire, I think you'd look at it a little differently. The chain of command in the military versus parents and the accountability of a school board to parents and students, I don't know that the parallel is the same. But Mike, I do appreciate your insights and your perspective. We've got time for one more very, very quickly.

Ian, in about 20 seconds, tell me your thoughts. Yeah, I think we've got ourselves into this position because we don't vote and especially municipal electives. Yeah, no, you're right. We don't vote for the, the trustees. And the only time that we speak up is when it directly affects us. Yeah.

IE in this kit this way our kids. Yeah, no, you're right. You're absolutely right. We're gonna thank you for that. Voter apathy is a problem. The municipal level of politics affects us the most and we should demonstrate it by voting en masse. Now the competition has begun. What will you need to stay in this house? What do I need to give you to get you out of that house?

This wall has to stay. This wall has to go or we go. What do you think of the house? I hate it. Okay, so I have a little bit of work to do. Design expert Paige Turner joins David as they ask homeowners the all-important question. Are you gonna love it? Or are you going to list it? You want to tell them? Love it or not? Nine expert Paige Turner joins David as they ask homeowners the all-important question. Are you gonna love it or are you going to list it?

You want a tablet? Love it or list it. All new Sunday at 9. On Home Network. Stream on STAC TV and the Global TV app.