The Ben Mulroney Show - This week in politics -- day-before-Canada-Day edition

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

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Ready for you. Welcome to the Ben Mulrooney Show and as we close up this Monday edition of the show just prior to Canada Day we're gonna end it in style with this week in politics you would think that on a long weekend not a lot of news but no no no no that's not the world we're living in because last night at about 10 o'clock the the law that had been so central to the the Trudeau government and now the Carney government the digital services tax was supposed to come into effect and it was paused.

So here to talk about that and so much more, we're joined by Michael Burns, the co-founder and executive chair of PurposeU and Dimitris Soutis, former director of communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper. To the both of you, I say Happy Canada Day. Happy Canada Day, happy Dominion Day. Yes, indeed. All right, so let's talk about the pausing of the DST because I think this was a folly of errors

that could have been leveraged in a very positive way and they failed tremendously. The fact that, Demetra, we'll start with you, the fact that this has been predicted to be a sticking point with the Americans. Doug Ford of the Premier of Ontario said as much a year ago, and they were sticking to their guns. And at the last minute, when the Americans

brought all of their weight to bear by canceling their negotiations with us and suggesting that another tariff was coming our way, they paused it and got nothing for it as opposed to saying behind closed doors, hey, we'll pause this for you, that's your victory and you gotta give us something so that we can go to our people

and say we got something for that. And we got none of that. So governor of two central banks, Goldman Sachs, a resume longer than Santa's list. And we couldn't figure this one out. It's it's it's a card. It's actually a card that the government of Canada could have used. Instead, on a Sunday night, at 10.m. or slightly after 10 p.m., a poor finance minister who is officially appointed to be the bearer of bad news all the time basically tweets out that after Donald Trump smacked us around, we're pausing this tax, which by the way, tax that would have had

an impact of more than $7 billion on Canadian consumers. And the challenge with Prime Minister Carney is that he's been raising expectations beyond belief, raising expectations during the campaign. I know how to account, I know how to negotiate. I'm not going to tell you my negotiating strategy because it's so secret that Donald Trump will be caught off guard. Meanwhile, yesterday we were caught with our pants down. Yeah.

Michael Burns, I mean, look, nobody told the liberals to campaign on a platform of elbows up and that we're gonna be the smartest guys in the room because we're led by the smartest guy in the room. Nobody told them to do that. And nobody told them that we, you know, this took campaign on a platform of fear that this was the greatest threat to our existence

that we've ever had. And they're the ones who did that. And they leveraged that and they won. They prosecuted the election successfully and they won. But what we're seeing in terms of tone and behavior is anything but what they described in the election campaign. And I'll go one further for you. In Donald Trump's truth social, Mike, he where he said that this this tax was a problem, he prefaced it with describing yet again his issue with Canada's supply management of our dairy sector. And so what we've done in this instance is we've shown

Donald Trump the play he needs to run when supply management comes up in the negotiations. Yeah, well listen, I think this confirms what many of us said from the very start, that this tax was poorly timed and strategically reckless. You don't pick a digital tax fight while you're trying to save auto jobs, aluminum exports, and dairy protections. This repeal is clearly an attempt to get Trump back to the negotiating table. The tax might have been defensible on paper, but when $2 billion in retroactive payments threaten a broader trade war, you have to step back. That's exactly what this government did over the weekend.

This wasn't the cave. This was triage. Yeah. But like I said, the two terrible things here is we got nothing for it. We didn't exchange this tax for anything with them. We look weak. We look feckless. And like I said, when it comes time to talk about supply management, which as Dimitri said, and Dimitri, you can chime in after this, you know, you talk about him raising expectations. He said he's going to remove all interprovincial trade barriers, but the one thing he's not

gonna touch is supply management. That's the one. It's a sacred cow. But we literally have given a roadmap to the Americans on how to get rid of supply management. And there's actually a bigger pretzel we've tied ourselves into in relation to supply management. A law has passed. A law just passed a few weeks ago saying that the government of Canada cannot negotiate away supply management.

So what did Donald Trump Donald Trump figure out yesterday? He figured out that every time he wants something all he needs to say is negotiations are off. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And he doesn't have to give us anything for it. So this is going to be interesting because again, if this was a moment of pride and you know, if there was credit to give today, I'd more than happily give it. You don't announce good news at 10 o'clock at night on a Sunday night. Demetri, you've been on this panel with me when I have, and it wasn't even begrudgingly, because like I said, I believe that if our prime minister succeeds, we all succeed. And I have been giving him and his team credit and praise

when it's been due, and they've been due a lot thus far, but this is a failure, and this is an embarrassment. And this, not only that, this is, it was so poorly executed that it actually gives the Americans a playbook on how to negotiate with us and get everything they want. We shall see, I guess, what the next concession will be if this continues this way,

and I hope it won't continue this way. Yeah. I've, I, yeah, so talk to me about that, that law again, because they've... Yes. I caught you off guard, eh? Yeah, you did. So, in the previous parliament, there was a Bloch-Habiqua private members bill that basically

said supply management cannot be touched. It didn't pass because two senators, Peter Beame and one more senator, basically blocked it from passage. Quietly, as soon as parliament came back after the general election, it passed all stages in the House of Commons, it passed all stages in the Senate, it got royal assent, which means it is now law.

It is law that the government of Canada cannot negotiate away supply management. And my question is the following. Do you think Donald Trump gives a beep? Yeah. Or if he's just gonna say you know you know what we're stopping negotiation so well Michael Burns yeah Michael Burns I mean if we saw we saw Mark Carney with the stroke of a pen say that the consumer facing carbon tax was no more. Perhaps he's going to have to pull another flourish like that on this front in order to save negotiations with the Americans. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure he's going to on this.

I think we have to hold the line. on this, I think we have to hold the line. We have to realize that Canada has already conceded a lot in the past through free trade agreements with both America and Mexico. Look, supply management may not be perfect, but certainly during COVID and recent spikes in inflation, and certainly it's kept food prices predictable and our shelves full, but it's clear that supply management has been,

has always been a target for US trade talks. But I think it's going to be essential to Canada's rural economy and food supply that we hold the line. But it's going to be difficult. We're dealing with Trump who clearly is doubling down because he sees political points in attacking our farmers. Well, and look, so to go back to what we said off the top, if I'm being consistent, and if Mark Carney is to be believed, and listen, one failure does not mean everything's been a failure. He's been very good on a lot of fronts. And so if he is able to successfully defend supply management, as is his preference in

the face of Donald Trump moving forward, all while maintaining these negotiations, then yes, he another that will be more evidence that he is one of the smart guys in the room. But I just I think he set himself up for an uphill battle. And it's, and it's not it's not starting well. But guys, thank you very much. Don't go anywhere. Because when we come back, we're talking about, oh, we're talking about Hikvision. No one's ever heard of it, but could it be another Huawei? Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show.

Come back to the Ben Mulroney Show, and welcome back to This Week in Politics with our guests, Michael Burns and Dimitris Soudas. Guys, thanks so much for sticking around. All right, let's tell the country the story of Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Company Limited, often shortened to Hikvision. I'd never heard of it until this story.

It's a Chinese partly state owned manufacturer. It's a supplier of video surveillance equipment for civilian and military purposes. It's headquartered in China. And there is news today that the government of Canada, by way of Canadian industry minister Melanie Jolie, she said her government ordered HIC Vision to cease all operations in the country and close its business.

They determined that HIC Vision's continued operations in the country would be injurious to Canada's national security. And Michael, let's start with you. I hear this and it reminds me of the beginning of our issues that started with China because of the Huawei security issues, which then led to the abduction of the two Michaels

and a chilling of our relations with China for a significant period of time. What do you make of this? No question, there are some similar parallels between the two stories. But in my view, this move is long overdue and absolutely the right call by the government. This is a company that is not just a camera company. It is widely known to have deep connections to China's military industrial complex. And by the way, let's not forget that we are late to the game on this issue. Our intelligence allies, such as the

US, UK, Australia, made this move years ago, allowing HICS vision to operate here, I think, puts our privacy and infrastructure at risk. It's certainly better late than never. But I think as a country, we need to stop being the last ones to act when it comes to our national security. Yeah. Demetri, what do you make of this? Because every time we come head to head, face to face with China,

it's such a big country. The economy dwarfs ours. The number of people consume us many times over. Anytime we take issue with them on what Michael accurately describes as a national security issue, they take it very personally and act accordingly. Well, I echo absolutely everything that Michael just said and take it one step further. And what I say on this is we actually don't take

national security seriously here in Canada. Yeah. We think it's a nuisance. We think it's something that we couldn't be bothered with. And when I say we, I mean both the elected side, but also the bureaucracy. It's, oh my goodness, we cannot do this because we're going to offend China. Last I checked, New Zealand is actually smaller than Canada. And when I read this article this morning,

the question I asked myself to all those that didn't know much about HICVision, what do they think of the fact that for the last several years, their doorbell, their digital doorbell at their house is a HICVision digital doorbell. So government inaction on matters of national security, long-term, there are always long-term consequences that just by closing our eyes and pretending national security is not that important,

then we compromise ourselves. But what was it like under Stephen Harper? What was his government's policy and position when we as a nation would have a nation to nation disagreement like this with China? Well if you recall, Prime Minister Harper did not actually visit China before the third or fourth year of his mandate. And when he did meet with the Chinese, he directly raised with both the Chinese Prime Minister

and the Chinese President, those things once again, that officials, bureaucrats, always encourage Prime Ministers not to raise, oh, don't raise human rights, we'll do it on our own on different levels. The challenge again with China is, and if you look when we have bad, go look at the data.

If you look when we have bad relations with China, it actually has zero impact on our trade between the two countries because it is essential trade. And again, unless we take these things seriously, then we will simply be a compromised nation. Mike Burns, if you had the ear of the powers that be in Ottawa, what steps would you have them take? Some early quick steps so that situations like this didn't come up again? Well, first of all, I think we the the government needs to make this, make our national security priority again. They need to be very vocal publicly.

But I also think they need to be working the back channels. And we've, listen, we've got to flag this. We've also got to be coordinating better with our intelligence or intelligence agencies with our allies. Again, this is nothing new. This was flagged some time ago. The fact that we're acting now is good, but it's so late to the game. Yeah.

Can I add something, Ben? Yeah, please. The fact that we're always the one acting at the very end, years later, our partners don't trust us. Therefore, guess what they don't do? They don't share information. Right, yeah.

No, you're right. And listen, hopefully, hopefully, it's still the early days of this Carney government. He says it's not the same government as the previous one. Hopefully, this sort of thing is a vestige. I'm willing to believe that this is a vestige of the old government, and I'm going to give Mark Carney the chance to show us that this is not how he's running his ship. But let's talk about how things are being run in Quebec City.

And Dimitri, you wrote a piece about Quebec City's foolish decision to erase history. Set the stage for us, sir. I did. So Quebec City City Hall basically had a mosaic. It was it's a mosaic of Samuel de Champlain. Samuel de Champlain is the founder of Quebec City, 1608. Some will argue that Samuel de Champlain, founded in Quebec City because it's the first true colony, paved the way for the creation of Canada. And the mayor of Quebec City decided to take it down. Why did he decide to take it down? Because in this mosaic you had

Samuel de Champlain and a member, a chief of the First Nations who was kneeling in front of Samuel de Champlain. And I wrote an op-ed in the national post saying we can't constantly erase history as painful as it may be. Why? We are a relatively young country. If I think to my ancestors, Greek, thousands of years, Canada is a relatively young country. And right now, instead of writing our identity and building on our identity, we're busy, you know, changing the name of the lodge that we're building,

changing Dundas Square, taking down statues of Sir John A. McDonald, removing mosaics of historic figures. And it just, I think it's become way too politically correct that if we keep doing this, the walls will be empty. Well, and not only that, and Mike, as somebody who's been deeply involved with veterans and the armed forces, that rich tradition has been starved over the past few years. And to me, there has been, in certain circles, a rewriting of our military history. There are a lot of people who want our military history to begin and end with peacekeeping,

and that's simply not the truth. When you hear stories like this, talk to me about the value that you see in maintaining our history, the good, the bad, and the ugly, so that we can build on it. This is the foundation that we build on, whether you like it or not. Yeah, first of all, I think Dimitri's column was spot on. You know, if we're only honoring perfection, we're going to end up honoring no one. I think this was a huge mistake. Taking down the statue of Champlain will not erase

the complicated history it symbolizes. Instead of removing monuments, what we should be doing is using the to spark meaningful conversations about our past and learning from it and acknowledging both the achievements and the flaws of these historical figures. But let me also add too that I understand the urge to want to correct the past, but you don't steal history by deleting it. You've got to face it head on and teach people what actually happened.

Absolutely. And you know, like I've said many times, I don't, I don't, as a, as a nation, I don't want us to be responsible for the ills of other countries. And I don't want us to make up ills here. And I want us to deal with our problems. And I want to deal with the problems in the here and now. And, and I don't believe we make anybody's life better today by taking down a mural that is a is a is a sort of a snapshot of life from the past call me crazy but that's how I see things hey guys listen I'm gonna let you get on with your day and your celebrations of Canada I'm gonna do my best to honor this incredible nation in any way I can over the next few days but I do appreciate you taking time out of your day to join us today. Happy Canada Day. Happy Canada Day. And to

everyone listening I wish you a happy Canada Day. I want to say thank you for joining us today. As always you can keep the conversation going with me on Twitter on all of our social media channels and I'll do my best to communicate back with you. and the alliances get trickier and the blind sides? Brutal! Just a roller coaster of backstabbing and craziness. New house guests, new twists, same epic drama. Bro, I'm gunning for you. You're my number one target. Who can you trust when everyone's watching? Game on, baby!

Big Brother, new season Thursday, July 10th on Global. Stream on STAC TV.