The Ben Mulroney Show - This week in politics - Has Carney shed the lingering Trudeau shadow?

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Guests and Topics: - Guest:    Yonah Budd- Co-Founder and Clinical Director Thefarmrehab.com   Guest:  Tom Parkin   Principal, Impact Strategies Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://link.chtbl.com/bms Also, on youtube -- https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show and look politics operates at a breakneck speed and so we've got to check in with some very smart people quite often and today is time for this week in politics with our panel. We've got Tom Parkin, good friend of the show principal at Impact Strategies. Tom, you live in the life of Riley there by a lake somewhere, it looks like paradise. Yeah, it's great.

Regan Watts, founder of- Just week anyway. We got Regan Watts joining us. He's the founder of Fratton Park, as well as a former senior aide to Jim Flaherty. Nice to see you, my friend. Morning, Ben Ben. And for the first time, I've spoken to him many times before,

but never on this panel, Yona Budd, the co-founder and clinical director of the Pharma Rehab. Welcome to the show, Yona. Great to be here, thank you. Okay, so Yona, we're gonna start with you. You're the new guy on the panel and I wanna talk about Mark Carney.

It's still early days, but we're beginning to get a sense of who he is and the kind of prime minister he wants to be. And there are a couple of stories that came out that I think offer some insight into who he is and how he wants to be different from his predecessor. He promised he would be. And these articles suggest that he is. On one hand, he's letting people know that bureaucrats better get on board with

his breakneck speed of doing things or they will be replaced. And an insider said something I thought was quite salient because I can appreciate it. He said that there's some bureaucrats who've been in power for so long that they have muscle memory and they rely on process rather than outcomes. And if that's what their priority is, he wants them out. And on the other side, there's talk that he's really trying to govern in a way that attracts the red Tories, the centrists from all parties to his vision of the country he wants to build. And I guess the question I have for you is, do you think he's genuinely purging all of those aspects

of the Trudeau liberals from his version of the party that was so, that there was so much violent opposition to? Great question, thanks for having me. I'm not quite sure I'm here because you said it's full of smart people, But anyway, I'll do the best I can. You know, I think he's done a really good job to take it taking advantage of the new noise that came into play once he got it, you know, came into office, you know, with what's going on with Trump, with what's going on in the Middle East. And I think he's managed to use to leverage those distractions, if you will,

to help people move off of the old kind of Trudeau mindset and into his vision of moving forward with a lot of, he seems to be picking up momentum and confidence and support along the way. Cause frankly, I think he's doing a hell of a job in terms of his relationship with the US. And I think people see him versus Trudeau, I mean, physically see him as a much stronger, more dominant, more together guy.

And I believe that the noise and the confusion that we were getting from Trudeau towards the end of all of it, people aren't talking about it so much anymore. They're all talking about this new version of the liberals who kind of sort of feel like conservatives as well. So I would say he's done a pretty decent job from the outside. But you know, politics, that's the way it works, right? You got to capture the moment. Regan Watts, you've gone on record saying that Mark Carney has you purring like a kitten. And I got gotta say, look, if a liberal is going to inject $150 billion into military spending, that's kind of my kind of liberal.

However, he does have a caucus that is made up in large part of people who got us into the mess we were in for 10 years. So where do we stand in the sort of on the timeline of, as we said, purging his party of the people that got us into the mess in the sort of on the timeline of, as we said, purging his party of the people that got us into the mess in the first place? So I can confirm, Ben, that Mr. Carney continues

to have me purring because I think as a prime minister, his performance has been exceptional. The country was yearning for change. And you've heard me say this many times, and the line never gets old. The long national nightmare known as Justin Trudeau is well and truly over, and the country is happy about that. Mr. Carney understands, I believe, the time is—the moment is here to change the type of governance and government that this country has had.

And I would say he is governing far more like a progressive conservative in the Brian Maroney mold than any of us who watch politics thought. I think there was some legitimate concerns, concerns is maybe strong words. There was a legitimate point to be made about his views on environmental policy, for example. He is a believer in carbon pricing and has written extensively about that kind of topic. And that was a vulnerability for him. But he appears in his early days, and you reference the defense spending to not going to his pet files or pet interest. He views the country as in needing of reform. And he said this during the campaign, no crisis, no car need. And so, I think the story that you referenced at the

top about deputy ministers and the performance management of the senior ranks of the civil service is something that's badly needed. One of the unwritten stories of the Trudeau era, the Trudeau Telford era, really, and I reference Katie Telford when I say this, is the absolute decimation of the senior ranks of the public service in the government of Canada. The public service of the government of Canada used to be the gold standard around the world. It is no longer that. And so I think Mr. Carney and Mr. Blaschard, his chief of staff, and Mr. Savia, who's coming in as clerk, are going to be bringing a lens and a focus to the senior ranks of the public service, because they know they cannot, they can't enact their change agenda without having

senior officials and the rest of the system not just falling in line but delivering. And I think for too long mediocrity has been rewarded in Ottawa. I mean, you know, it used to be, I used to work in Ottawa. Let me put a pin in that because I want to bring in Tom Park and there were many days Tom where the Trudeau liberals were governing to the left of you. I don't think you could say that about these early days of the Carney government. So give us a perspective from your vantage point. Yeah, to me, this is a really, well, it seems to me that Mark Carney was somebody who people had hopes in, more than they had either expectations or knowledge of.

Yeah, that's fair. I think that's fair. It was this idea that he wasn't Pierre Polyaev, and and that was key and that was easy. He just didn't have to munch apples and be obnoxious. So the standard was low and he had to look serious and he had to talk about Canada and he had to position against Trump. And people filled in the blanks. A lot of left of center voters filled in the blanks wrongly. And I think...

Wait, what did the people on the left assume was going to happen when they filled in the blanks? I think that people thought... The top thing was they were going to stop Pierre Pauliap. That was, I think, stop Pierre Pauliap. That was, I think, key for most progressive voters. The rest was kind of well down the list. As for what Mr. Carney believed or what they thought they were voting for, it's funny because in a way the conservatives sold him.

He was an environmentalist, apparently. He was a liberal. He was a continuation of Justin Trudeau. And so he was comfortable for voters on the left. But that's not the way it's turned out. He's obviously, you know, he killed the carbon tax, making some people purr. And he's had an income tax cut for the that's benefited the wealthiest people. He's passed Bill C-5, which is, I think, unprecedented. The idea that you could have a government that passes regulation that voids bills, that voids regulation, that voids legislation.

I don't even know how that can be, how that can happen for any project that he chooses, that he wishes. I mean, that is like king stuff. Regan, you wanna jump in there? You got about 40 seconds. Hell, half no fury like Tom Park and progressive voters scorned. I wish I could have some sympathy for Tom and his party members. The fact is the country needs to get moving.

Bill C-5 does that. There's lots of things you could quibble about it, but what you cannot doubt and question is the intent, which is to get projects built. And for too long, we have been too deferential in government and policymakers towards third party interests, which is a very, very important issue. And I think that's a very important issue. is the intent, which is to get projects built. And for too long, we have been too deferential in government and policymakers towards third-party interest groups who are funded from various different ways,

but with the sole objective of stopping things from happening. I acknowledge fully that there's some First Nations issues that need to be addressed, and I expect Mr. Carney and his government to deal with those. But, you know, we're going to read tax cuts are provided to Canadians who are overtaxed. Reagan, we're going to we're going to leave it there. When we come back from the break,

I want Yonah's first take on how younger Canadians are more likely to trust the Ayatollah. Good God. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. And this is This Week in Politics with Yonah Budd, Tom Parkin and Regan Watts. Y Yona, I want to jump right back in with you. There was a study that came out that said 12% of all respondents in Canada see Iran as quote trustworthy. Alright and so that's the numbers low and I like it low I'd like it lower. However trust was highest among 18 to 24 year olds at 34% and lowest with those over 65 at 4%. Now I guess the definition of, you gotta ask yourself, what does trustworthy mean?

I trust the Iranian regime to use fear and murder and intimidation as tools to stay in power, but I don't trust them for much other than that. What do you, why do you think young people are more open to trusting a repressive regime and when those are the guys who are typically the tip of the sword for social justice here in Canada? Well, it's a great question. And I think, first of all, these people have never been to Iran.

I think if they'd actually been there or talked to people who have just come from there, that live there, they'd realize that it's not a place you'd ever want to be as a young person because you can't exercise any rights, so to speak, under the current regime. So I'm not a big believer in polls to begin with. I think they're all a bunch of garbage for the most part. But I think what we're dealing with here is young people like to be on the other side of the conversation. They always like to be on the adverse side of the conversation.

So to talk about trusting the Ayatollah and trusting Iran, either they're high or drunk or just not paying attention, or just being on the opposite side of it. Because anyone with a clear mind, anyone from any religious background, any political belief, looking at what goes on in that country, after talking to Iranian folks that live there, have come from there, want to go back there, it's an oppressive guy. It's an oppressive regime. And I can't believe that young people can buy into that kind of dictatorship or that kind of control and feel that that's a comfortable place where you can rely on their voice or vote.

It's surprising. Tom, this to me is another chapter in the book that started when we uncovered that there were a vast number of young people in North America that thought that Osama bin Laden had some pretty good ideas. And so I'm trying to feel like, make this make sense to me. I think it's really just lack of knowledge, honestly. You know, for if you're a little bit older,

you've been through some world experience and world wars. And have some recollection of the uranium 79, how significant was the Ronald Reagan hostages, you have a very strong view of what this in its present political form is about. But Iran hasn't been in the headlines until recently in that way for a long time. So if you're 24 years old or whatever, and you're asked, what do you think of a country, X, Y, Z, and Iran? Tom, we're gonna,

we're gonna take a beat on you because we're having a difficulty, we're having some choppiness with your feed. And I'm gonna throw it over, while he looks baby faced, he's an old guy just like me. Regan, this is, I get it, and kids get their information from TikTok

and all of that stuff. However, it's those young people who are mobilized in a place like New York City that allowed for somebody who I think is the wrong guy for the job to become mayor of New York, Zoran Madmani, who espouses a lot of these beliefs. He's 33 years old. He espouses a lot of these beliefs,

and he just won the Democratic primary to be on the ballot to become the mayor of the biggest and most important city in North America. So Ben, there's a couple things that I think are worth unpacking here. I should be clear and and for those who are listening but can't see we'll see the video. I am wearing an Israeli Defense Forces t-shirt right now. My views on this particular issue are have been clear for some time and I also want to remind your listeners that it's been one year, eight months, two weeks, and four days since hostages were taken in Israel by Hamas.

And there are still people who have not come home, and that is unacceptable. With respect to the views of young people in this country, even 12 percent of them who view the Iranian regime favorably. Well, I think it goes back, there's a couple of points. One, and it's the old saying, if you're not a liberal in your 20s, you don't have a heart, and if you're not a conservative in your 30s, you don't have a brain. I think this is reflective of some of that. You've got young people who really are naive to the world. And I put that down to two things.

One, our education system. History is not taught in a way that I believe it used to be taught. I see that in my own kids and what they learn at school. They both go to great schools, mind you, but the history that I learned, and you would have learned, Ben, growing up in the 80s and the 90s, is not the same type of history

that's taught today. That's the first thing. The second thing is I do think it's down to parents. And as parents, we have one job, which is to get our kids ready so that when they leave the house at age 18, 19, 20, they're ready for the world. Part of that responsibility, you know,

we teach kids lessons and things they need to do to be productive adults. But part of that journey as parents is to teach them history and to talk about good versus evil because this is a big world, it's sometimes a bad world. It doesn't surprise me that 12% of young people between 18 and 24 support the Iranian regime. I mean, there's always a handful of idiots.

But I don't put that down to kids. No, it's 34%, it's 34%, they think it's trustworthy. idiots. No, it's it's 34%. It's 34%. They think it's trustworthy. Wow, the number that I the number that I read in, in particular, though, was that there was 12% of people in that in that group who were surveyed who support that. The other thing, though, I think to be to be clear is in the poll into deference to the poll is that the majority of people think

regime change in Iran would be a good thing. And I think that there is a silver lining there because regime change in Iran would be, I think, a net positive. It has to be carefully managed. The last time a regime change in the world actually took place and was successfully managed with a large block of countries is when your father was prime minister and President George Herbert Walker Bush, along with President Reagan before him, helped lead to the downfall of the Eastern Bloc and the Soviet Union. All right. Yeah. And listen, thank you for that. I do want to shift gears for the last of the few remaining minutes we have. And this is less of a political thing. And this is more I want your take as as as Canadians,

because there was a story recently of sort of Canadian provincial leaders who met with their contiguous American partners. So a representative from Maine, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Connecticut, New Hampshire who attended. And it was really about trying to address the economic downturn that a lot of those American states were feeling because Canadians were staying home with their dollars, specifically their tourist dollars.

I'm just gonna tell you from my perspective, given the fact that this was a fight with America that we didn't ask for, that we fought tooth and nail to avoid, I'm kind of feeling as much as I love my friends in the United States, as much as I respect and admire and love America, I'm kind of saying, you know what? Like, I'm focused on fixing what's wrong here. You guys figure out your issues down there, but I don't have a lot of time to worry about the American local economies when we have our own issues up here, a lot of which was created by a particular person in the White House.

And I want to know, Yona, do you think I'm being petty here? No, I don't. I think that you're acknowledging real feelings about real things. And we seem to have lost, people I talk to seem to have lost a focus on what's happening in our backyard because there's a lot of noise. I started saying this in the beginning of the show. There's a lot of noise going on that distracts people from thinking about the stuff that really affects them. And I think that's where you're kind of, I think you're on the money. I think we have to tune off, tune down the noise and look in our backyards and get our heads together.

Tom, about 25 seconds to you. Well, I think I feel, and I think most Canadians feel that Americans are people just like them and they're trying to make their way in the world. Of course, it's not nice. It's negative, but somebody's life is badly affected by President Trump. It's really unfortunate. But you know, this is, we were just talking about Iran, people living in Iran, just regular people trying to get along in life, terrible regime. What are you going to do about it? Not much. You can say

you're sorry, but there's not much you can do about it. It's up to that government to try and fix that problem. Regan, I wish I could come to you. I saw you nodding that I was being petty. We will dispute that offline, my friend, but I want to thank all three of you for joining us. I hope you come back real soon. All the best, and, Yona, thank you for joining us for the very first time. Enjoy the rest of your day. The best high-concept sci-fi rig of it all in the universe is back. What the hell? Oh, sh**.

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