The Ben Mulroney Show - This week in politics -- has the gov't embraced secrecy?

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

 Guest: Max Fawcett, Lead Columnist for Canada's National Observer Guest: Dimitri  Soudas, Former Director of Communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank. Deposit it and wait for it to clear.

Your pay really meant something. Payroll is incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Payroll professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor? A national day to recognize payroll professionals.

I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are that payroll professionals play in our own? play in our lives. We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the nation. National payroll party? Precisely.

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Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. It's Monday, which means it's time for our Monday edition of this week in politics. And of course, we love kicking off the week with our good friends Max Fawcett, lead columnist for Canada's National Observer, and Dimitri Soutis, former director of communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Great to see you both. Great to see you, gentlemen. Actually, Demetri, I should tell you,

I actually have a meeting with your former boss later today to talk about an environmental technology. And so very glad to have that meeting. You seem to be meeting him every couple of weeks. You saw him recently in Winnipe. Yes, indeed. We had a great talk, a great chat while we were there. I find when I meet politicians who finally leave politics, they are so much more relaxed than when they're in politics.

I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, but life becomes so much better for them. And I wish I could put myself in their head to ask, well, I just stick around in politics for so long if life on the other side is so much more fun. It's because they are addicted to it to the point that, you know, You've seen it in your own family. It's the only virus for which there will never be a cure or a vaccine. Well, let's talk about the fever that has gripped the greater Toronto area and fans of the Toronto Blue Jays.

Because we hear in the bubble of the GTA like to think that because the Jays are the only team in Canada, that they must be Canada's team. So I have somebody in Quebec and I have somebody in Alberta. I'll put it to you. Are you on the bandwagon? One foot on the bandwagon, Ben. So I love the Blue Jays. They're my second favorite team. But growing up in Vancouver, we're Mariners fans out there because they're closer. And we grew up with, you know, Ken Griffey Jr. and the rest of that team.

So I want nothing but the best for the Blue Jays until they face the Mariners. And then I wish them nothing but misfortune. And Dimitri, listen, I grew up an Expos fan. I loved both teams. it broke my heart when they were leading and they were on the cusp of greatness and possibly a World Series only to see the strike scuttle that completely

and then everything that followed was a disaster. But have the Blue Jays found a way into your heart? Yes, unequivocally and I'll tell you why. As you know, Ben, I'm born and raised in Montreal, so I'm naturally an Expos fan, anything Montreal fan, and anything but Toronto fan but my son Theo

is a huge Leafs fan is a huge Jays fan so I am all in for the Blue Jays I want to see that moment I do remember back in 1993 if my memory

serves me right when Joe Carter if you remember when he scored that home run and they won it was a grand slam if my memory served

me right and the Raptors the Raptors no it no it wasn't a grand slam what was it it was a walk-off Homer

It was a walk-off home run. So, long story short, I want my son Theo to feel exactly what I felt back then when the Habs won the Stanley Cup in 1993. So I am all in. Max, I hope your team loses and I hope the Js win. And just for the record, I was at that game in 1993 when the JVs beat the Kings. I was at that game. And we had to take refuge inside the RCMP constabulary just across the street

because the street was the first time I'd ever seen Canadian. sports fans start rioting. So you're the guy that Patrick Guo winked at. Yeah, we figured it out. Yeah, there we go. We figured it out. All right, let's talk about things that are slightly more serious, actually, a lot more serious.

We heard very candid Jason Jacques, the interim head of the parliamentary budget office last week talking about how we are, we have to change course fiscally or we're not going to have any choice moving forward. And I really thought that after he had made those very candid words public, I thought somebody would talk to him and he was either going to temper those words or not. And it turns out he did not. Max, when you hear that, you know, listen, we were told we have to respect Mark Carney because he has domain expertise and he's been living in a world steeped in this sort of information,

and how to build things for years. I have to think that we deserve the head of the PBO. It should be afforded the same respect when he speaks. What are your thoughts? Not quite as much respect as the prime minister, but certainly a lot of respect. And look, you know, point to Jason Jacques. If you're the interim head of the PBO and you want job security,

saying what he said is a good way to get it, because now the liberals can't get rid of him without looking like they're trying to silence him. But I think he was bang on, you know, like we, We are at a moment where the trajectory that we're on if we're running these massive deficits over the next few years cannot continue and we need to have an adult conversation about what the choices are and the choices are really clear. Either we cut spending, we increase revenue or some combination of the two.

And I would love to see an adult conversation about what our choices are there. Where can we raise revenues? Where could we cut costs? Let's not brush this off as someone who's making sort of warnings for no reason. a very good reason. And it's the parliament's job to come up with some solutions. Yeah. I think that's all fair. Dimitri, how do you see it? So a couple of points here. In terms of increasing government revenue, there aren't a million ways to do that. The two main ways is economic growth, which then means higher tax revenues

without raising taxes or raising actual taxes. New revenue streams that the government can do through its international trade strategy to diversify our trade strategy, primarily through selling our energy, oil and gas, and LNG. The main issue here is, you know, Max talks about an adult conversation. That adult conversation needs to include why is the federal government spending in areas that are not its jurisdiction? Why is the federal government spending on dental care? Why is the federal government spending on pharmacare? Why is the federal government spending on child care? These are jurisdictionally health and early childhood education and education is the sole responsibility of the provinces.

So if these programs are to exist, they should be prioritized by the provinces and funded by the provinces. And the challenge for the federal government is going to be very simple. You know, our deficit, our debt has more than doubled, and there has not been a single penny going towards debt repayment since 2015, or before that actually, sorry, since 2011, 2010 during the global economic recession. Some very difficult decisions here. And sometimes these decisions will lead to a government not getting reelected, even though they are the right decision. So we're going to start this next topic, and then we'll carry it on after the break. but you know I want to talk about what's going on with the Canada Post strike and I'm not often somebody who will quote Andrew Coyne from the CBC with as as insightful because I disagree with him a lot but he's right he's right every now and as I see it and when he described the sort of the dynamic between Canada Post and the union he said it's sort of like two bald men fighting over a comb. And he said, you know, on one side, you've got the union that feels that Canada Post exists to give them things to do forever.

And the Canada Post feels that their job with the union is to keep providing a service at a higher and higher cost. And meanwhile, you have a federal government that, for the longest time, just seem to agree with them. And if you harken back to 2013, the heavy lift, the political price to start innovating and changing things at Canada Post. that that heavy price was paid by stephen harper reversed a few years later by or they were going to make those changes over time reversed by by justin trudeau and now all of those changes that were brought forth in 2013 are being brought as solutions to bear on the problem today i personally think it may be too late for those solutions and i wonder what you think and max will start with you and again you'll get to pick it up after the break but you know even if those solutions that Harper want to bring in in 2013 didn't solve everything,

I feel optimistically that they could have infused that organization with a sense of innovation, with a sense that they need to change with the times. And who knows what would have happened over 10 years

of that new sense of innovation had taken hold. I wonder what you think about that. Yeah, I think those 10 years were squandered. It was a missed opportunity. and, you know, to Dimitri's previous point, you know, one of the ways to raise revenue is through the GST,

and I think, you know, the Harper government's decision to cut the GST was very destructive, but I think their decision to make those changes that Canada Post was very constructive, and I think it was a very bad decision by the Trudeau government to roll those back because now we're living with the consequences. And you're going to get to pick that up after the break.

We've got to talk about that. We've got to talk about Israel working on a new peace deal And what that means for peace in the Middle East, don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney shop. This message is from Wise, the app for international money with Wise. You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies

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This is the Ben Mulroney show, and we are closing out the Monday edition in style with Max Fawcett and Dimitri Soutis for our This Week in Politics panel. And Max, I was going to get you to finish your thought on the changes that could have been, the potential that we, that were left on the table for innovation and for change and for Canada Post to get with the times, had the changes that the conservatives under Stephen Harper been on. allowed that he made been allowed to take purchase yeah it really is a missed opportunity and and you know we're in a moment where everyone i think understands that the mail business is not what it was 10 minutes ago never mind 10 years ago and yeah um it just doesn't make any sense that you know i live i get letters delivered to my home but someone who lives in a rural part of the country doesn't like we should all have community mailboxes and the canada post corporation should have to run like a business i'm you know it is structured like one it should have to run like one

and just being kept alive so that people can keep their jobs. I understand the importance to them, but that's not the world we're living in right now. We used to have milkmen, deliver milk to our doors. We don't anymore. Things change, and we've got to get with the program. Yeah. Dimitri, you were there at the time.

What do you think? I was there at a time, and just two points here. The first one, everybody's talked about Canada Post losing $5 billion since 2018. But listen to this one. 20 years ago, 5.5 billion letters delivered per year by Canada Post. Today, we are at less than 2 billion letters delivered annually, even though the number of households in Canada has increased. Where do I see the missed opportunity here?

The missed opportunity is that Prime Minister Harper put in place the policy. Trudeau canceled it. Carney is now reinstating it, but we're still missing the opportunity. For example, why can't Canada Post do what they've done in other countries? for it to become a bank, for it to become to offer financial services, insurance company, digital banking, you know, it's mail delivery will eventually no longer be a necessity. Therefore, we are just pushing off by 10 or 15 years. The end of Canada Post, just like Hudson's Bay Company shut down, you know, the oldest Canadian company. So unless Canada Post modernizes

and offers new services, you know, if it were to offer banking, guess who its number one client would be, the government of Canada. If it were to offer insurance, whether it's for vehicles, whether it's for buildings, guess who its top client would be, the government of Canada. So it's going to be interesting to see if the prime minister is actually going to move in that direction. But it just proves the point. Don't just go against what your opponent or he who you are trying to defeat is proposing. I remember in 1993, Jean-Cretchen was going to cancel the GST. Guess what?

He didn't. You know, Justin Trudeau was going to cancel the F-35 contract. He didn't. So this is cheap politics that eventually catches up to us. Yeah. Well, just not for nothing. Tomorrow on the show, we have two CEOs from two private companies in Canada who have decided that they want to offer a more reliable solution for small and medium-sized businesses in Canada.

They're going to tell us about their plan. And if there are more companies like them, out there. If there are more solutions-oriented private companies out there, by the time Canada Post and the workers get their act together, they're going to come back to a significantly smaller pie because, you know, the private sector waits for no one, and they will find solutions wherever they can make them. And if they can't find them, they'll make them themselves. And so we have that conversation coming up tomorrow. All right, let's talk about Israel, supposedly working on a new peace plan with the United States. And I wonder what you

you think where the pressure has come from, where the impetus has come from. Right after the recognition, Max, of by Canada and Australia and the UK of the Palestinian state, Netanyahu took to the airwaves in a very emboldened and angry speech where he made it sound like we don't, I don't care what these people are saying, we've got a job to do. And yet now it seems like water has been put in his wine. Where do you think that came from? Just the overwhelming weight of international pressure. You know, it's not just Canada.

It's almost every country in the world. And, of course, the one holdout was the United States, both under Biden and Trump. They gave Netanyahu's government a really long leash on, you know, a situation where it was kind of astonishing to me that there was never an obvious end game. You know, Netanyahu never said this is how it will end. This is how we will fix the problem. You know, we will get things back to a more normal state. It was just we're just going to keep going. And it's because he knows that if the war ends, his prime ministership ends.

And so maybe the pressure came from Donald Trump. I think he really wants that Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe he wants to do some land deals in Gaza. Who knows? But maybe that blank check from the U.S. is finally starting to run out. Demetri? I will remain skeptical on any peace plan until a peace plan is reached, signed, sealed, and delivered. There are reports out there about 21 point peace plan.

which talks about a long-term truce, the release of all hostages. They will exchange a thousand Palestinian prisoners in exchange for the 48, for the hostages that remain in Gaza, that Israel would gradually withdraw from Gaza. And the big one here, which is interesting because Prime Minister Carney hinted at that last week saying Canadian troops would be sent to Gaza along with other international forces, is that Gaza apparently would be ruled by a government with international supervision, that excluded Hamas. So that one, there's a big one for me.

Do we actually think Hamas will, they may accept it in writing, but do we think the Hamas terrorist organization will accept for Gaza to be ruled by international forces by a so-called local government with representatives from the Palestinian Authority? So I remain highly skeptical on two fronts that a terrorist organization like Hamas will agree to the final point.

And number two, to Max's point, Netanya, who knows, we're one year away from an election in Israel, that if when this war finishes, hopefully, not if, that his rule on Israel will end and then there will be other problems for him to deal with. So I don't see how either party politically wants to see an end to this. And again, let's not forget, we're around the corner from October, where we will now be marking two years since this heinous attack. unless Hamas is completely eradicated, there's a good percentage of the Jewish population,

the Israeli population, that will not accept such a peace deal. Lastly, I want your thoughts on this. It was a peculiarity of the American existence. We're following the assassination of Charlie Kirk, who is a deeply evangelical conservative, there seems to be a rise in at least interest in the evangelical movement. Now, if that actually translates into a larger active population as born-again's in the United States,

I wonder what that does. I mean, granted, a lot of them will be in very red states to begin with, but I wonder what that does to political discourse in the U.S. Max? I mean, I don't see how it could get worse, but, you know, never say never. I find it deeply ironic that the most unchristian man in American history, history is leading or responsible for the rise in sort of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity and Donald Trump.

You know, this is a man who has never seen a commandment he couldn't break. But that's, I guess, you know, sort of the irony, the irony of American politics, right, is the thing that shouldn't happen is the thing that happens. And all I would say is be careful what you wish for, evangelicals, because there was a book by a guy named Rick Wilson where he said, everything Trump touches dies. I would not want to ally my sense of Christianity and faith with a guy who acts in the way that he does. I don't think it will end well for anyone. Well, Larry Elder, the black conservative evangelical pointed out, he said, of course, this man's flawed,

but I like where the ball lands. He said, I'm not concerned with who's throwing it. I like to know where it's landing in terms of judges and laws and all of that stuff. And so that's the justification that a lot of evangelicals have made in their minds as to sort of doing a deal with a guy like Donald Trump. The last word goes to you, Dimitra, I'm going to give you about 20 seconds. Well, I'll go to the flip side of the coin in terms of Republicans versus Democrats.

Unless the Democrats get their house in order and shape up and offer a viable alternative or what were a year away from midterms, you may end up seeing Donald Trump holding on to both the House and the Senate. And obviously the objective here is for the Democrats to take away some of that power because it's going to be a long three years. And again, presidential election, my 20 seconds running out, who is going to run against the Republicans? And is Donald Trump going to run for a third term?

God help us. Hey, thank you guys very much. Enjoy your week. I'll talk to you soon. You too. We're renovating a hotel, expanding our resort, and breathing some life back into the lake house. Out of here. All while raising a family.

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