The Ben Mulroney Show - This week in politics panel with Ben Mulroney - Monday edition

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Guests and Topics: Guest: Max Fawcett, Lead Columnist for Canada's National Observer Guest:  Guest: Sharan Kaur, Political strategist, former Deputy Chief to the Minister of Finance If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, so what did you want to talk about? Well, I want to tell you about Wagovie. Wagovie? Yeah, Wagovie. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No. Just ask your doctor.

About Wagovie? Yeah. Ask for it by name. Okay. So why did you bring me to this circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.ca for savings. Exclusions may apply. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and time to convene our This Week in Politics

panel because the week is kicking off in full force with the launch of the G7 Summit in Kenanaskis. So let's welcome to the show Max Fawcett, lead columnist for Canada's National Observer and Sharon Carr, political strategist and former deputy chief to the Minister of Finance. To both of you I say happy Monday. Happy Monday. Good morning. Happy Monday. All right, so- Good morning.

Good morning. So consistently, if there's one thing I've, I think we've all observed about our new Prime Minister, Mark Carney, is that he is ambitious. Like he's got ambitious plans for this government. And it seems like this summit is equally ambitious in terms of all of the featured players that have been brought on board

in all of my time attending them as the son of the guy. I never saw this many extra world leaders show up at a G7 Summit. You've got the leader of the Ukraine, of Ukraine, of South Africa, leader of the Ukraine of Ukraine of South Africa, India, I know I'm forgetting one, but that's there that that's a lot of side conversations Sharon is this is this par for the course is this what we should be expecting of Mark Carney moving forward that he's just gonna be doing like if he's got a mantra these days it's more so this is actually normal I know people don't think it is because it's not talked about as much and it's never as newsworthy. But from my time in government, this was actually something that did happen.

Often there could be times when when we hosted the finance ministers G7 back in 2018, we had a number of countries and their developing development ministers coming in to talk about foreign aid and stuff like that. So it is normal. But in this case, I think at a leaders level, I think what we're seeing here is a strategy on the part of Prime Minister Carney to invite leaders from across the world to potentially for two reasons. One, the US is no longer a, I would say, reliable trading partner. So he's expanding the players at the table. And number two, maybe just strategically, he's inviting folks to help temper Donald

Trump from having any type of tantrum on site. So I think there's a number of reasons, but this is actually quite normal. We're just hearing more about it because it's the who's love the day. Australia, that's the one I forgot. Max, I don't think that that having more people in the room would change Donald Trump's behavior one bit. But I do think it speaks to, you know, whether you like this liberal government or not,

this is a prime minister who seems to have the bandwidth to do many things at once. Agree, yeah, no, I mean, it definitely won't change Donald Trump's behavior, but I think the more you can spread the agenda and spread the focus out to a bunch of different issues, it takes the spotlight away from him and it makes, you know, his comments, his remarks, whatever it might be less volatile, less potentially explosive. And I think that's a good strategy.

But you know, to your point, this does feel unusual to me. I yield to Sharon's experience here, but, you know, we're dealing with the war in Ukraine. We're dealing with now apparently a war in Israel. We're dealing with, you know, the trade war with the Americans, but there's a lot on his plate here. And, you know, maybe it would have been smarter

to kind of shrink things down and make them a little more manageable. But like you say, this it would have been smarter to kind of shrink things down and make them a little more manageable. But like you say, this seems to be his style. He is willing to take on big issues, big challenges, and take big swings. Yeah, and a lot of them, I mean, just in reporting on what the files that he has on his desk, I have to give him credit where credit is due.

He's not shying away and he's not punting the ball. He's working on a number of crises simultaneously. So I will give him credit for that. Now he's gotta get us out of those crises, but that's something for another day. Now all of that is great, but there's that great line, if you ever wanna make God laugh, tell him about your plans.

And so Mark Carney may have grand plans for this, but the new front in the war in the Middle East, Israel versus Iran, could derail all of that. And it's changing every second. Do you think that that, Sharon, could be the wild card that changes the focus of this summit? I think it'll probably definitely pivot the focus a little bit, but I don't think it's going to change the focus that much. There are as important and I think everyone's eyes are on watching what's happening between Israel and Iran.

I do think that the other topics of agenda such as global trade wars are still going to be front and center It will definitely have people's ears perked up, but I don't think it's gonna derail the meeting whatsoever Max the last time that these G7 summit was in Canada There was a it was a big kerfuffle because of the the president in the United States Donald Trump Refused to sign on to the group communique that is typically hammered out

in anticipation of the summit. Everyone agrees on it before they even get there. And that week, we could see something like, the last thing you want is to have a summit where nothing gets done or doesn't get done with everybody signing on. And so I do think that that is a big, big challenge for the prime minister.

Well, they've smartly taken that off the table this time. They've agreed in advance that there is gonna be no community coming over. They don't have to deal with Trump not signing it or what have you. Yeah, that's great. You know, the Israel-Iran issue, I think, They don't have to deal with Trump not signing it or what have you. Yeah, that's great. The Israel-Iran issue, I think, is an opportunity for Carney here to say to Trump, look, let's

wrap up this trade war. He's already concluded a deal apparently with China. He clearly has lost the appetite for this fight on tariffs. And Carney can say to him, look, let's get a deal done. We're spending more on defense. Let's wrap this up. Let's make things great in Canada and America. And let's focus on peace in the Middle East

because that to him, to Trump, is I think his big selling feature. He sees himself as a peacemaker, as someone who doesn't have wars start under him. And suddenly he is at risk of having one of the biggest wars perhaps starting under his leadership. That's a very good point. How much bluster did he lead with when he wasn't in office,

saying, if I were there, the war in Ukraine wouldn't have started, and there would be peace in the Middle East, and as soon as I get back in office, I'm going to fix this in like a day. And the fact that neither of those things have improved, in fact, they have worsened. You're right, Sharon, our prime minister could have an opportunity to sort of whisper in his ear and say, listen, you know, there's a path forward where we can all, we can make the world a safer place, but we've got to put this other stuff away. Yeah, and I do think that that type

of conversation will take place. Nobody, I would say nobody at that table wants what is happening right now between Iran and Israel. I think the way this can escalate, it can escalate really quickly and it's going to potentially be really bad. And we've seen Donald Trump specifically have more interest in the Middle Eastern region. We've seen him talking to Qatar and Saudi and UAE. And I think that given what's happening in the region, he's gonna wanna stabilize it. So I think it's an opportunity for everyone to kind of come together and try to temper

the temperature out there. Oh, I forgot, South Africa is gonna be there too. There's another one I forgot. We had South Africa in 2018 as well. Sure, yes, but alongside Ukraine and, I mean, bring everybody, it's practically a G20 at this point. You know, it definitely is a strategy, but when you're hosting the presidency,

I think this is a carnage way of kind of one, showing who his allies or his friends are at the table, and also like, let's just have a carny's way of kind of one showing who his allies or his friends are at the table and also like, let's just have a party while we're at it, guys. No, it's a Max. I think it's very, very smart to look, he's got all these people there he could he could be talking to the Australian Prime Minister and say, Well, you know what we got, I got the Italian Prime Minister in the other room, let's go talk to him. And, oh, you want to do a deal with on x, y and z with with the UK. All right, well, let's walk down the hallway and

I'll get you a meeting there. So it's it's it's an ability to broker conversations that would otherwise be impossible to broker. Why weren't we invited guys? I feel like we should be there. I mean, yeah, I agree. I have a lot to offer. I would have loved interview everybody. I think I think it you know he he is a different obviously a different prime minister than than his predecessor and I don't think people

are going to be spending a lot of time you know doing tourism in in Kananaskis. It is going to be deal making it is going to be hard conversations and he is going to be shepherding and leading those because I think he does want to establish a different view of Canada in the world than perhaps the one that has set in over the last 10 years. Yeah, I think that's a very good point. Like I said, I wish him well because if he does that, then we all win. All right, you guys don't go anywhere. We've got more to talk about, including the disaster that is Canadian military procurement and why, because of that, maybe we should ditch the F-35s and purchase some drones. We'll explain and talk about it after the break. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and welcome back to Max Fawcett and Sharon Carr for this week in politics and last week max last week a huge announcement that we are going to get to our 2% of GDP military spending to align with our commitment with with NATO this year originally it was going to be in 10 years and in five years well we found a way to make it happen for this year. And central to that, Max, is this the purchase of our F-35s from the US. But now there's a thought piece in the Globe and Mail that suggests maybe we should get away from these expensive pieces of hardware and invest in the future technology of drones that require less upkeep and they can you know your pilots can can do it from anywhere and they don't need the specialized training and it's a great piece but what it allows me to think is our procurement system is a mess this is this is an example of

what we've done so many times in the past, which is pay for something, reverse course, and start the whole process again. It is a mess, and it seems to be this sort of intractable problem that we can't figure out no matter who's in government. And I do think the drones offer us perhaps a way out of this. The problem with the F-35s and with the military aircrafts

is we have to buy them from someone else. We don't manufacture them here and so we're having to pick from different suppliers and get into the politics of it all. With the drones and we've seen just how incredibly powerful drones are with that amazing military operation in Ukraine, they're a perfect fit for what we have to do, which is patrol the North, patrol our borders and keep eyes on things. And like you said, we can do it with lower costs, you know, lower upkeep.

We don't have to train new pilots. And it feels like a way of getting out of the F-35 contract without insulting the Americans. But something to tell that Max, I have to believe that in that contract there's a penalty for canceling the contract, which again, we've done so many times and we've repeated this behavior before and Sharon, if we do this, I guarantee you we're going to have the same problem later because by the time we take possession of these drones or by the time they're ready for us to take

over, there will be a change in government, which means a change of priorities and someone's gonna say no no no it's not drones it's f-35s we're going back to the f-35s and it's a song and dance of probably the most broken procurement system that we could possibly have yeah I would say one of my biggest issues during time in government and it's not just for defense. It's basically procurement in general in how the government operates and how it works. It's what would take something in the private sector like less than a year to think about,

to research, sign, seal and deliver. It takes the government like a bajillion years and it becomes irrelevant. And I would say most contracts specifically with defense items do have really large penalties. I remember during my time, during my time there was a, um, a threat of pulling out a contract, uh, of labs that by the, by the third party, which was going to cost not only a ton of money,

but a ton of jobs. So it would have to look at the fine print, but our drones, the solution, I think drones are going to play a part in it. I think we have to shift the entire procurement process so that it's not something that can be changed and shifted. We've heard Prime Minister Carney say our fleet of everything is depleted. So we do need these things, but how quickly can we get them? Sharon, I want to stay with you on this front because I want you to put me in the mind of this government as I'm trying to get to know them and you know them better than I. But immediately following Israel's preemptive attack

on Iran, our foreign minister, Anita Anon, came out calling for a ceasefire. I don't understand that. They called for, her predecessor called for a ceasefire right after October 7th and Israel attacked Hamas. This knee-jerk reaction to stop, not all hostilities are bad hostilities if they lead to a better outcome. And if this volley by Israel could

lead to stopping Iran from getting a nuclear weapon and possibly toppling this illegal occupation by the Iranian regime of the Iranian people, then it's a net benefit. But I don't understand this knee-jerk, almost naive call for a ceasefire at every possible opportunity. ceasefire at every possible opportunity? Well, and I think we might disagree respectfully on this matter specifically, but I too personally have been of the view of ceasefire. Now in this case, I think that we can agree that what Israel is doing in targeting Iran's nuclear systems might have value in the long term.

But what we're, I think, being a bit too naive on in general when we say it's great what Israel is doing is that we're forgetting the casualties that can potentially come with all of this and the escalation. Whether it's in Gaza or whether it's in Iran, we saw Iran respond pretty forcefully. And I think what us as Canadians and with our principles and all that is that we would like to limit the risk to civilians and we would like to de-escalate. And I think, sure, maybe the outcome might be great if they can get rid of the Iranian regime, but do we know what's going to come next?

Like I think we, as people, naively assume that it means that Iranians will be free to roam the streets and govern the way they want, but that is not necessarily the case. We can look in other regions, like look at Syria, for example, in what's happened there. So was the government's response the right response? Some people can debate that,

but I think that the ceasefire comment is just our principles of wanting to limit risk to civilians as well. Max you know I take issue with people who try to create a parallel I mean when people say regime change it would be it's not it's not the same as trying to bring democracy to Afghanistan where the where democracy had never taken root. There is a secular tradition in Iran that was upended by a religious revolution. So it's not the same thing. I want to know how you see it from your vantage point.

I think Sharon hits the nail on the head there. We have this sense that when we change regimes or when we intervene or when there is intervention done, something better will naturally follow. And I think the last 25 years have shown us that oftentimes something much worse follows, especially when the intervention is coming from the West or it is coming from a Western aligned country. And so, I don't know how the politics would unfold, but I do know that if the regime was toppled by an Israeli attack, I'm not sure that that would rally people around,

a force that would be beneficial to the West. It could be very hostile to the West. And so, I think to Sharon's point, Canadians tend to call for cease fires because we're distant from that region, but we have a lot of people from different diasporas there and we want them to see civilian casualties kept to a minimum. And also, frankly, we don't have a real stake in it. You know, we don't have a military that can be involved or intervene. And so really all we can do is call for a

ceasefire. And maybe, maybe we should just keep our mouth shut on these things. call for a ceasefire. And maybe we should just keep our mouth shut on these things. I think on that point we will agree. Sharon, can we also agree that one of the priorities that Mark Carney should have is that when there are citizens, Canadian citizens in crisis in another country, that maybe the embassy services for those citizens should be available 24 seven. When Canadian citizens were trying to avail themselves of help from the Canadian embassy in Tel Aviv, they were told come back during working hours

as that city was being bombed. I think that would be money well spent, don't you? Yeah, and you know, I think this is something they're gonna have to change. I myself this is something they're gonna have to change. I myself this weekend was in communication with the foreign minister's office because of someone who I knew was stuck in Israel

and couldn't get out and it was challenging. And this has been the case in other countries as well during challenging times, specifically during periods of COVID, for example, when we were trying to get people out of other countries. So I think this will be something that the prime minister would probably think is vital specifically in regions that are more tumultuous than others. Max, the last word to you.

Yeah, if we want people to trust government and believe in government, then government has to be there for them at these sorts of moments. It can't be a nine to five sort of situation. So this has to be a top priority. Max Fossett, Sharon Carr, thank you so much for kicking off the week with us. We appreciate it. I hope you have a great one. See you later, Ben. My pleasure.

And thank you for joining us here on the Ben Mulroney Show. If you want to keep the conversation going, just follow me on Twitter at Ben Mulroney. Follow the show on Twitter as well on all social media platforms and now on YouTube. To celebrate the Days of Our Lives 60th anniversary W Network and Stack TV invite you to enter for a chance to win the ultimate fan experience by watching new episodes of Days of Our Lives. You and a guest could win a three-night stay in Los Angeles, a VIP Days of Our Lives set tour, a helicopter ride over LA, and so much more. Watch Weekdays at One and look for the weekly code word to enter.

Days of Our Lives. All new Weekdays at One. Only on W. Stream on StackTV.