The Ben Mulroney Show - Toronto city council and shelters -- what they're NOT saying

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

 - City Councillor Stephen Holyday   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠���⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty, it's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed.

You're allowed to say, I'm not okay right now. And trust me, I have been there. Whether it's the state of the world stress at home, or just feeling like you've got to have it all together and have all the answers, you don't have to hold it in. Better help is here to help with the world's largest network of licensed therapists. They've already supported over 5 million people, you can connect with a therapist online from wherever you are, no waitlist, no office visits. And if it's not the right fit you can switch anytime it's time to put your mental health on the agenda talk it out with better help visit better help comm slash Mulrooney today to get 10% off your first month that's better help HELP comm Ben Mulroney show on this Thursday.

What's the date today? Today's Thursday, July 24th. One of these days I'm going to come in here knowing the date. But until that day, I'm always going to check my phone. I hope everybody had a great end to their Wednesday. I know we've got a lot that we're paying attention to today on the show, most notably, as we know, it looks like the trial for the hockey players is going to end today with a verdict that we're expecting

somewhere in the third hour of the show today. That's what we're expecting. And of course, look, I'm not going to go off half-cocked. If we get the news, we're going to somewhere in the third hour of the show today. That's what we're expecting. And of course, look, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go off half cocked. If we get the news, we'll, we'll, we'll tell you the news and then we will work and endeavor to bring you analysis and breakdown of that news as it becomes available. But to be honest, I don't like following trials personally. I don't follow the minutia of trials in the way that I probably did back in the day. I just don't, I didn't follow.

And it's not, it doesn't matter what type of trial it is. I didn't follow the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, and that was on TV every day. And I was working in that world. I just don't, I don't do it until, for me that's like watching process. I care about the result of those, of that process, but I don't need to watch the sausage get made.

And at some point, you know, at some point, you know, somebody is gonna make a Netflix documentary or they're gonna do one of those true crime, dramatic retellings like they did with the OJ trial. And that, cause that one was on, was on, I think it was on FX in the States. It was so perfectly cast with the exception of the guy who played OJ, because it was the show me the money guy from Cuba Gooding Jr. Great actor, very good actor, looks nothing like OJ. But besides that, everyone look great.

So that's what I do. I wait until that happens. In other words, when we get to the end of this road, you're not gonna have in me someone with a wealth of knowledge just to everything that happened along the way. So I'm not that guy for you. We will find those people, we will bring them onto the show

and we will see if we can add context and see if we can answer some questions that may be lingering one way or another. Today is a very good day because, and every time I talk about the Blue Jays, I look over at Dave, who is, he is, he's a great fan of the Blue Jays. But are you at this point, Dave, because now that they've won two out of three games against the Yankees, and they have broken a 40-year franchise record for most home wins in a row,

40 year franchise record for most home wins in a row. Are you feeling like the elevated play of this team is not an aberration anymore, but this is what they're capable of? For sure, yeah. This is who they are. This is for real. Yeah. Whatever, you can disagree with me, whatever,

but this is for real. They always like, this is their motto. Their team right now is find a way. they have been finding ways teams have been making errors guys have been stepping up it's not just the big boys like Vlad E Bo Springer it's been everybody it's fun to watch it's exciting it gives me like straight up 2015 2016 vibes it's so cool to see I'm all in I look forward to watching these games every day. Yeah, yeah. I agree, but spoken like a true Toronto sports fan. Well, yeah.

I'm as big a fan as you. Okay, so, okay, so, so gentlemen, so with, do you think that that sentiment, that, that wind in our sails explains this other record that was shattered as well. A new benchmark for hot dogs eaten in the team's popular loony dogs day. Word number one. So apparently back in the day, the former high water mark was 76,627 set in 2023. Okay, Toronto, I don't think you're ready to hear this new number because it got smashed.

I mean crushed. 84,731 dogs sold in one day. It's one day, right? One day. So how many, how many, how many, you got what, 40,000 seats there? 42,000 roughly. 42,000. So that's almost two dogs a person. And these are the big dogs. These are the street meat dogs. No, no roughly 42,000 so that's almost two dogs a person and these are the big dogs these are

the street meat dogs no no no no they're the like the schneider's redhots they're like the tiny one oh they're the little ones but it's a lot it's more bun than wiener okay so okay so just for context for context more bun than wiener okay we're right there at nine o'clock in the morning um okay so my favorite hot dog in the world is a Montreal toast day. It just is, as far as I'm concerned, it is the perfect food on the go. It's, they're, first of all, they're small. They are two biters, as far as I'm concerned. I get them down two. And back, when I was a kid, and I had a metabolism that actually worked, and I would go to hockey games with my dad, I would eat three per,

why am I thinking? Inning. Not inning, no, in hockey. Game, game. No, three per period, thank you. I don't know where my brain was there. Three per period. And if it went into overtime, I would have one bonus dog bringing it up to 10

in about three hours. The dogs on the street here in Toronto are far more substantial, far more substantial. And they're also, that's like a five or six or seven, that's a meal in a lot of ways. But these, the ones that you're saying at this, at the game are the smaller ones. Yeah, they're the Schneider's, right?

If you go to the grocery store, you can see them. Okay. Still though, that is great. I love living in a world where we are smashing hot dog records here in the city of Toronto. Those are records I can get behind. They're talking my language. Anyway, congratulations to the Jays

and congratulations to all the hot dog fairing people out there. You are a people after my own heart. All right, so city council, it looks like they're going on summer break soon and they are going to be closing up shop until about October. And so there are a few things that they are trying to get in under the wire.

From September 24th to September 30th, that's when they're on break. And so a couple of things that they've been trying to get past, some of them have passed already, most notably Toronto's council approved priority transit lanes on Bathurst and Dufferin. And so you'll remember, and these things are popping up everywhere. Like I didn't know what was going on just outside our office here where the city just started painting some of the lanes red. With obviously, because it's Toronto, no education program around that sort of thing. I don't know, I don't know how I'm supposed to, what I'm legally allowed to do to get from one side to the other.

Am I allowed crossing that red lane? I don't know. Nobody told me. I'm assuming I can. I'm assuming that the rules are not the rules of the Flores lava, because I suspect that some people will think that. But yeah, it is what it is. Now they're going to do that to essentially create priority lanes. Right now, is this the Dave, Mike, is this the half measure that they've approved? Is this the one that goes to Bloor or the one that goes all the way north?

For the sixplexes. No, no, for the dedicated transit lanes. I think it's just to Bloor. I think it just goes to Bloor, yes. Just going to Bloor. And look, I don't inherently have a problem with this because from what I understand, it's not just a bus lane, it's a bus lane, it's a bike lane, it's a cab lane,

I think it's a priority lane. And frankly, I'll be honest. I'm not on- It takes away the car lane. Of course it takes away the car lane. And they're pointing out that on Dufferin, it's gonna save five minutes per trip and on Bathurst, seven minutes per trip.

Councilor John Burnside pointed out that the, the, how rich it is that when you're talking about transit, it's all about how much time is saved. But when you talk about the commensurate lift required for drivers who need to find themselves on less and less real estate on the roads, they poo poo how much time they're going to be in the car. It doesn't matter. You know, it's just a couple more minutes in your car. But it's all about time saved for the buses. And you never hear about time saved for the drivers. Why? Because there is no time saved. We've got some audio of John Burnside. Let's listen. When we put in a bike lane, maybe it's Bloor Street, maybe it's Yonge Street,

we get a report back and it's two, maybe three minutes extra time for a vehicle and we say, hey that's nothing. Two or three minutes, that's nothing at all. It's inconsequential. But then when we want to put in a dedicated transit lane we say, wow we can save two or three minutes. And you can't have both. Two or three minutes either means something or it doesn't. And to me two or three minutes. And you can't have both two or three minutes either means something or it doesn't. And to me, two or three minutes is is a very small amount of time. And to go through all that effort for two or three minutes, and I don't I don't see that as a good use of funds. Well, he's listening, he's right to point it out. But he's wrong. You can have it both ways. If you're on city council, on a particular side of the aisle, you can absolutely have it one way when it suits

you. And any other way, when it doesn't. That's just, oh, and that's actually unfair. That's not just for, for the left, it happens all the time. Consistency is in short order order at all levels of government and people's situational outrage over one thing and then they don't remember what their position was when they were against it, but when their side is representing that problem then all of a sudden they're for it. So that's something that did get accomplished yesterday. The sixplexes and shelters, those are on the docket as well. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. And because it's the Ben Mulroney Show, we got caught on a little bit of a tangent called

Ben's Love of Hot Dogs. And I probably spoke on that for just a little too long. I got caught up and I ran out of time to talk about what's on the docket at city council before they arise for the summer. And they'll be back on September 30th. They're talking, they're looking at sixplexes, but the conversation that we wanna have right now

is about a deferred motion by Toronto city council on building six new shelters. That deferred motion comes up today. And given the conversation that we've been having on the Ben Mulroney show all week, what I feel the city is not saying is these are no longer just conversations about homeless shelters.

They are, homeless shelters are a cover for a very intense bout of social engineering by certain people on the left. Drug kits will be made available, but supervision of drug use will not. And we're even talking about managed alcohol programs that are being considered for implementation by shelters. So booze and drugs are going to be in and around these shelters. And we had a pretty difficult time getting a progressive voice from city council to even consider talking to us on the Ben Mulroney show. If you're going to do this, you should own it. And we're not finding people with the courage of their convictions.

However, we are very happy to have Stephen Holliday join us. Stephen, thank you so much for being here. We know you got a hard out in about 10 minutes because you got to get back in there for a vote. Yeah, that's right, Ben. Good morning to you. Good morning. And getting my sleeves rolled up for another day at council,

another day of battling on the floor. But you know, it's a great introduction. One of the things we're talking about today is one of the gates of many of the approvals of shelters at City Council. And I think, you know, you talked a lot about the uncertainty about what happens inside the shelters. We don't know all of the details about how these programs will unfold.

But the core of this is that a lot of these decisions are made with information that is kept secret. Yeah. And it doesn't allow the public to become involved. And so what we have today, we're going to be talking about the zoning requirements around six shelter sites. Yeah. I can back up really quickly. The city made a decision to open 20 new shelters with about 1,600 beds spread across them. So around 80 beds on average per shelter. And they did this in response to the

shelter hotels that were created during the pandemic. We all know what happened with those, they didn't go so well, so they're trying to move people out of those and consciously into communities across the city. That's important because it's not about necessarily locating them where the need is, it's about spreading them across the city. The catch is even counselors don't know and if they do know they find out at the very end and they're muzzled, where these sites are going to be until they're announced and when they're announced, it's typically too late.

Yep. And we saw we saw one of those conversations at the end of last week, where Councillor Gord Perks was sort of going back and forth with MP Roman Bavar, who was taking issue with, I believe one, in the Downsview area. And the points that the MP were bringing up were the points that I think would be on the minds of any Torontonian. And he was being stymied by a city councilor

who was more concerned with process than he was with hearing out the concerns of people who felt that their voices hadn't been heard. Yeah, nothing new to that. You know, they don't like debate. They don't like questions. There is a process to do that. But frustrating, very, very frustrating is trying to get this information out to the public so that the public can react to these things and just simply provide counsel their opinion. And there's lots of valid questions. You know, take the most basic one. Why choose X site to put in Y shelter program? And you know, how does that match with the community? Or is it just simply a convenience of the city to find a scrap of real estate that they

think that they can develop? So here we have a process that the city has to do by law, right? Which is to rezone these things. And you know, no one should be surprised that there was incredible backlash from various parts of the city saying, Hey, you know, we're not happy with this. Involve us. Well, let's see what happens at city council today. But explain to me the motivation. Already the idea of putting a shelter in any one community is gonna be a fight. You're always gonna have people that are gonna say, love the idea of shelters, just not in my backyard.

Like that's- Maybe. But no, but that will be a fight. How intense a fight it is depends entirely on the circumstance. So explain to me why, if that is the priority, why there are people from a certain political bent who are adding to the difficulty of this by quietly and under the cover of, I think, secrecy,

quietly and under the cover of I think secrecy, using these, these, these shelters as places to, you know, conduct social engineering experiments on with by offering up all of these drug kits. And now we're hearing about alcohol programs that this is, this is this is not the conversation that we need to be having right now. and it muddies the waters and it makes it more difficult to find consensus. Well, part of that conversation is about what happens in shelters and many of the advocates will will put them

under the banner they are housing, you know, partly true is where people go and sleep and they live and they live in a congregate setting. And if you dig a little deeper, you find out things like food are provided for them, laundry is provided for them, many of the daily necessities, but many others, self included, would argue that they are institutional uses.

Look, obviously there are people that are going into them with mental health issues, with addiction issues, they require treatment, they might be getting those services, but if you're bringing something of that level of institutional involvement, and you're plunking it into a neighborhood, and you're not telling people until it's too late, then we have a problem. Yeah, absolutely we have a problem because you're telling people it's one thing.

And if they have an issue with that one thing, how can you be against caring for and helping for helping those who need our help the most? You are a heartless terrible human being that you do not want to help the homeless. Okay, so I've lost that battle on moral grounds but then you find out that that's not exactly and entirely what's happening in these planned shelters. I mean, look, Stephen, if this were a shelter for addicts, there would be a different discussion to be had. But I have to believe that within these shelters, you have people who are in them for all sorts of reasons.

And there are some people who have never seen nor ever want to see a drug. And to put them ass to elbow next to people who are literally being given all the tools they need to consume drugs. To me, that is a cruel and unusual punishment to somebody who is already suffering. You got the addict who's suffering, and then you have the person who's trying to lead their best life under difficult circumstances being asked to collide in their very difficult life with with something that is wildly addictive and even more destructive.

You know, potentially those are the scenarios in the different categories of shelter. Some shelter will be for youth, some shelters will be for women, some shelters will be for mixed couples, some will be for men, some will be for those that are struggling with addiction and mental health. We also heard that great story about the one that was going to be just for black people run by black people. So the providers come in and they might have specific

audiences, but are there situations where that can occur as you described quite possibly. I don't necessarily know the breakdown of how all of these are. And we don't necessarily know because they could change throughout the shelter process. Women's shelter might be embraced by the community, but could that change in time? Without a doubt, it's up to the city. And again, people are just asking to be involved

in those conversations, it's their community. And it's not just about the shelter, but it's about the external impacts, right? If things were just contained on the grounds of the shelter, that's one thing, but I think the stories in the news will tell you that sometimes problems spill over into the community. That's why people care. Yeah. So, so tell me again, what, what is the point of the today's as is a rezoning vote? Yeah. So with, with any land use, you want to build a building of a certain size, you've to get approvals regardless of what happens inside of it right could be an apartment building so that particular aspect of six of these shelter sites will be discussed at council but it is it was a surrogate opportunity

for the community to come out and say hey this is our chance to have our voice heard they let council have it and and as you know it went went on for a long time, planning and housing committee, because there's a pent up backlash. Yeah, and it goes back to the root of when these shelters were established, council took this vote for 20. Council didn't even know the addresses of where they are. They were all I remember that they didn't even know they did. Yeah, this is this is for something that that people claim is this important. It just feels like it's being rushed or it's being

done unseriously or it is there aspects of it that are shrouded in secrecy when this entire process should be out there for everybody. Steven Holliday, thank you so much for joining us and I wish you the very best of luck today. Thank you, Ben. Thanks for talking about something so important. Ready to flip your idea of shawarma? Introducing the about something so important. mozzarella cheese, and drizzle with Osmos signature sauces, all served straight inside a bag of sweet chili heat Doritos. It's crunchy, it's saucy, it's straight up fire,

and you can customize it your way. No forks, no plates, no rules, just bold handheld flavor that walks with you. Perfect for summer hangs, beach days, movie nights, or those late night cravings that hit different. But heads up, this bold mashup is only around for a limited time, so don't miss your chance to taste what everyone's talking about. Get to your nearest Osmos and try the Walking Schwarmah today.

Bold meets Schwarmah. Your taste buds will thank you. Trust. The Walking Schwarmah. Only available at Osmos for a limited time. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And right before the break, we're talking with city counselor, Stephen Holliday, about a vote that he was about to go into at city council, addressing the zoning issues around the homeless shelters that the city is hell bent on placing in neighborhoods across the city without what feels to me like the proper and adequate level of consultation.

And that's the proper level of consultation has not been met even for a good faith decision by the city. This is not a good faith decision because as we've learned on this show through various conversations, these things are our homeless shelters feels like in name only, they feels like they are vehicles for social engineering, vehicles for advocates and, and, you know, single issue people to push their agenda, which is to make it so that if you want to avail yourself of the most destructive drugs in the world,

you can do that with the help of this city. And the vehicle to do that is going to be our shelter system. And I wanna hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. How do you feel about this entire thing? I have real doubts about whether or not a number of these actors are good faith actors. But let's hear what you have to say

and let's welcome Colleen to the conversation. Colleen, you're the first caller today on the show. Happy Thursday. Happy Thursday to you, Ben. I just wanted to let you know about my morning. I live in Ajax. We had a homeless shelter foisted upon us with no consultation about three, maybe four years ago. And we, this morning I went for a coffee to my local Tim Horton's at 5 30 and was asked by a drug addict for money, shaking his cup in my face. Then I went shopping at nine o'clock to our little market,

which is about maybe a hundred meters from the homeless shelter. And was accosted again, asking for money and then sworn at when I won't give money because there's not enough money to give to all of them. And then I got a coffee on my way back and there was another homeless person different asking for more money.

Yeah. And this was this was all before 930 this morning. Colleen, I say it almost every day when we talk about these things. I saw an interview with a recovering drug addict on on a podcast and he said a drug addict will always take the path of least resistance. The hardest thing for a drug addict to do is to get clean. So what about politicians, Ben? Well, listen, they've got a big mountain to climb these days because a lot of this information is coming to light right when they don't want it to come to light. And between now and the election, I think it's incumbent upon good investigative journalists to follow these documents, follow the money and find out who's behind this. Find out who is leading the charge,

quietly leading the charge, telling Torontonians that something is what it is not. And the complaints that you have, because there are people out there, Colleen, who would say, you're just not being a good neighbor. You're not being a good Torontonian. You clearly don't care about those who are suffering. And we as a city, we as a city have to be there for them.

Ben, I had never been to a civic meeting in Ajax until all this started. Our mayor has been MIA, didn't even show up to the first meeting. Our council, it's a hands-off approach. They can do whatever they want. They just have moved it off the main drag onto the first side street commercial to that,

to try and appease. Our neighborhood fought very hard to stop the safe injection site they planned on putting on, or putting in, in the neighbourhood as well. Yeah. So how do you feel it, you know, if the situation is analogous to Toronto, safe injection site may go the way of the dodo bird, but that's okay because if you've got militant activists within city staff, they're going to find a way to get everything to the drug addict that they need. And they're going to do it at the at the homeless shelter. The

difference is that that at the safe injection site, at least it happened indoors. Now it's not going to happen indoors, they're going to get all their products, they're going to get their syringes, they're going to get their crack and meth pipes, they're going to get those inside, but they're gonna be told use them outdoors. Right. And that's one of the things I'm going to investigate to see if we are doing it here as well. Yeah. Well, please keep everybody likes all the secrets. Colleen, keep us posted. Will you we appreciate the call and we appreciate the sort of the passion that you have for your for your where you live and for your community.

All right. Thank you very much. Let's go to April April in Etobicoke. I've always wanted to talk to you, Ben. Well, thank you for calling. Yes. My name is Ruth Mary and I live in South Etobicoke and your father was a great man. Oh, thank you very much. I agree. I agree. I concur. Now I'm going to get down to the site down there. I lived in, I was born in the Etobicoke area, about 40, 45 years.

And I know all about New Toronto and everything. I went down and I lived in the Alderwood area. I went down, I wanted to see Alderwood area. I went down. I wanted to see where they were going to put that building and everything else. No, you don't put it there. Yeah. And that area, it's a, and the new Toronto is quite a built up area and a lot of people and there's homeless down there. know. I give money to some of the homelessness that people that I see or even some food if I can get some. And, but I, Amber Morley, I don't know where she is. Is Amber Morley your counselor? Oh, yeah. When I start laughing,

I have, I've got another issue, but I'm not going to bring that up. This is serious. And another thing I want to say, it shouldn't be put there. I never even knew about it either. None of us knew. Yeah. Yeah. You know, this is word, uh, you know, word, whatever it is. And I'm very passionate when I call because of this. Yeah. I just, you know, I don't really understand. Something's going wrong. Sorry. At down in the city hall. Why are they doing this? It's an interesting thing. When, when people are on a self righteous mission by and large,

they want to play by rules that they don't expect anybody else to live by. Because, because their mission is so just, it is so noble, it is so right that they cannot be expected to waste their time doing all the things that they would demand of anybody else. Accountability, transparency, respect of process, the appearance of propriety, none of that stuff matters when you are on a mission from God and it's almost universal.

When somebody feels that they are on a noble mission, that is their higher calling, they are willing to do anything, including break the very rules that they depend on to get this thing done. I wanna thank you for your call. We only have time for a few more. Thank you very much.

Thank you, take care. Who do we have? We got Liz. Hey, back to back to back women on the show. Thanks so much for calling Liz. Hi, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to highlight that these kits in the shelters are, the staff is handing them out, will be handing them out to

anyone who asks for them. So it attracts people, it attracts addicts to the shelter, regardless of whether the residents are struggling with addiction themselves, it brings addicts into the community. Yeah, listen, and I'll point out again, the same people who don't want us to build more roads because of quote unquote induced demand, refuse to see the induced demand that is going to be caused by saying, hey, come get your drug paraphernalia at this new shelter. Right, exactly. And I totally agree with the point you made earlier, that people who are trying to live a clean life

and are just down on their luck will be bedding shoulder to shoulder, elbow to elbow, with people who are being enabled with their addiction issues by having all this available to them. Yeah. Do you not think that drug dealers aren't going to set up shop right outside the door of these shelters? It's going to be like shooting fish in a barrel. And one after another, hey, the first taste is free. Oh, you've never done drugs before? Wow, you've been on the streets for 30 years and you've never done drugs.

Well, I promise you, first taste is free and you are going to feel like Superman. Like, don't tell me that can't happen, please. Exactly. Anyway, I gotta run, I gotta run, but thank you so much for the call, Liz. I really appreciate it. And thanks to everybody for calling in.

I'm Jordan Bonaparte and this is your invitation to join me for an exploration of Canadian crime, mysteries, and the just plain weird on the Nighttime Podcast. Over the years, we've dove deep into many of Canada's most unique cases. From the haunting disappearance of Jack and Lily Sullivan in Nova Scotia, to the bizarre mystery of the unexplained death at a Halif Walmart. Walmart says a large bakery oven will be removed. And of course we provide a weekly roundup of Canada's weird news stories. The psychic said he could make the woman fall madly in love with him. The girl loves you more. It's like that.

If you give $12,000. Yeah. Through interviews with those closest to the case, to deep dive investigations and listener voices we shine a light where few others take the time to look. So if you're interested in Canadian crime, mysteries, and the weird, get caught up on everything you missed by subscribing to Nighttime right now wherever you get podcasts.