The Ben Mulroney Show - Toronto Heat and the Hands of Iran protest

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Toronto Iran Protest -Carrie Silberberg If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://link.chtbl.com/bms Also, on youtube -- https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Ben Mulrooney Show. Thank you so much for joining us on Monday, June 23rd. It was a heck of a weekend in the City of Toronto, but let's start the show with some great Canadian news. Shay Gildes Alexander, the standout Canadian basketball player for Oklahoma, has just made history by winning, well, he's joined a very elite club. First of all, congratulations to his team for becoming NBA champions,

but he just joined a very select group of elite players in the NBA, because he won the league MVP, the scoring title and the finals MVP all in the same season. Now the only time that that has ever been done in the past was twice by Michael Jordan, once by Shaquille O'Neal, and once by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. So this is the Carter effect as we discuss a lot about how Vince Carter helped popularize

a sport that had very little foundational support and history and tradition in this country was fast-tracked to the point that today, Canada is competing internationally and competing for elite status as a nation because of that one player and what he did with the Toronto Raptors. Also, he was a leading scorer for Oklahoma, but Benedict Mathurin from Montreal was the leading scorer on the losing team,

the Indiana Pacers. And interesting, I didn't know that there was a second spelling of Benedict. My name is Benedict, B-E-N-E-D-I-C-T. His is B-E-N-N-E-D-I-C-T. So same, but not quite the same. And also two other Canadians who played in these finals. So four Canadians.

Back in the day, you couldn't find four Canadians in the league, and you found four of them in the NBA finals. So congratulations to all involved and if you are somebody who simply loves waving the maple leaf in sport wherever you find it then it was a great, great finals for you. I was, I lived in a part of town here in Toronto that experienced a blackout yesterday. Power went out at about 2.30 PM. Didn't come back on till close to six. And we were getting really concerned because around four o'clock we started planning like what are we gonna make for dinner?

And then we realized we had no power. We couldn't use the oven, couldn't use the air fryer. We could have used the stove top, but not for what we wanted to make last night. So we took the kids out and we went to St. Louis. Tip of the hat to St. Louis. I just love love you know, anytime I can get ribs in 15 minutes. I'm a happy guy.

Everyone was happy. We had a great meal went home power was back on but it spoke to in my opinion, you know how many people were turning their air conditioner on yesterday given how hot it was. And I've never pretended that I don't I'm not a very fortunate person. And we have a pool at our house, very happy we have a pool. I remember when we bought our house,

we walked in the house, didn't even know it had a pool. And I said, I didn't even know I wanted a pool until I saw a pool in this backyard. And now I can't imagine not putting an offer in on this house. So very lucky to have had that yesterday. My appreciation for what that means for my family is not lost on me.

But that also means I appreciate the service that the city of Toronto provides to those who are not as fortunate as I to avail themselves of public pools on days like yesterday. And I was putting myself in the shoes of a mother and a father who worked a long week, right? And their kids worked a long week. And they might live in an apartment

that doesn't have air conditioning, and they've got to sleep with the windows open and hope to get a cross draft. And I guarantee you there was someone in this city that told their kids, kids, I know it's hot tonight, but tomorrow morning we're going to wake up and we are going to go to the pool. That's around the corner. We're going to spend the whole day outside.

We're going to be cool in the pool and we're going to have ice cream and popsicles and, and, and we're going to, it'll, it'll be beautiful. It'll be wonderful. And the kids were so excited as well. And they woke up and they waited in line like hundreds of other people at pools across the city, only to find out upon getting there that the pools had to be closed because according to the City of Toronto, given provincial requirements related to heat and humidex protocols, some outdoor pools had intermittent closures today to ensure staff health and safety. Staff remained on site to reopen the

pools as soon as possible. Please check individual pool webpages for updates. So the city closed some of the pools because it was too hot. I may be lacking nuance here, but I thought the whole point or one of the points to have these pools was to have them open when it's too hot.

I might be missing something because we don't open them in the in the winter. So the idea that it could be too hot like it there it I get we keep them closed when it's too cold but we have them open when it's hot. That to me if I'm someone who doesn't own a pool and it's hot like yesterday, I'm thinking to myself, tax dollars well spent. I don't like where all my tax dollars go, but gosh darn it. On a day like yesterday, I sure am glad I could take a dip in the pool, do something for a few hours with my kids to break the heat. No, too hot.

And the city says it's too hot because of provincial regulations. Well, we went and looked at the Ontario regulations. And please, if you're listening to this and my interpretation of this is wrong, call me and call me out. I would like to be corrected on the record, but there is no specific temperature limit in Ontario law that dictates when it's too hot to work. This is because workplace conditions vary greatly. Now there is an employer duty to protect. Employers are legally obligated to take all reasonable measures to protect workers from hazardous heat exposure.

So does that mean by the way that you closed all of the municipal golf courses as well? Because my sense is probably, hotter on a golf course than it is say next to a body of water. And when it comes to duty to protect, we saw this coming. We've been talking about this heat wave all week. Your duty to protect could have begun and ended with, I don't know, going to Dollarama and buying a bunch of brooms and buying a bunch of umbrellas and some duct tape.

And what you do is you MacGyver this stuff. You duct tape the broom as a stick to the lifeguard tower, and then you duct tape an umbrella to the stick. And therefore you've created a parasol. That is your duty to protect. And what do you do with that? With that one investment of, oh, I don't know, let's call it five bucks,

you allow hundreds of people to escape the heat. This is the easiest stuff that a city can do. This is, it is dumbfounding how our, on the hottest day of the year that we saw coming, our city thought that it made sense to close even one pool for even one minute, depriving taxpayers from their ability to escape the heat. This is what I say about this city.

We thrive despite the people that run it. This is insulting to the Instagram. My heart goes out to anybody who had promised their kids a day by a pool and they were deprived of it because it was quote unquote too hot. Let's hope they've learned their lesson. Let's hope they listen to this. Let's hope they send somebody down to the dollar store and we give some parasols to the to the lifeguards or hey I don't know maybe tell maybe tell the tell the lifeguards hey you know what you should do every five minutes every ten minutes jump in the pool get out of heat. There you go

problem solved. I should be doing this for a living. Oh no I say that and then people are gonna think I want to run for mayor. I do not want to run for mayor. Alright listen when we come back we've got a lot to get to. So much more to come on the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. I want to read you something from the website of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. Very simply, just Google, what is the mission of CUPE? CUPE's mission is to improve the quality of life

for its members by securing the best possible pay, benefits, working conditions, job security, and pensions, comma, while also promoting equality, social justice, and strong communities. Now, implicit in that second part is because, because the subject of the first part is its members, then implied in that statement is the promoting of equality, social justice, and strong communities is also for its members than implied in that statement is the promoting of equality, social justice,

and strong communities is also for its members. So that's the mission of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. So when I saw after October 7th, 2023, that Fred Hahn, who at the time, I can't remember what his leadership position was inside of QP Ontario, was to declare that the one day Holocaust perpetrated by the terrorist organization Hamas against innocent civilians in Israel was an act of resistance. And his constant tweeting and posting in support of these genocidal murderers

it was happening in real time. And then when I saw that the membership of QP Ontario reelected him and allowed him to exceed to the position of president of QP Ontario, I thought I'm taking crazy pills. How does that jive with this mission? And then I asked myself, what if you were a Jewish member of QP

and you were paying dues into this toxic organization that had clearly lost the plot. Well, lo and behold, we found ourselves exactly that over the summer. We had a conversation with Kerry Silverberg, who was a Jewish member of CUPE and took great umbrage to what I think is one of the greatest insults that any organization can perpetrate

against one of its members. And she is currently involved in a legal challenge with CUPI and Fred Hahn. And to give us the lay of the land today, as let's remember, CUPI and Fred Hahn were very loud about supporting a protest called Hands Off Iran, flying yet again in the face of their very mission. So joining us to talk about the nonsensical BS of it all,

we welcome Carrie Silverberg to the show. Carrie, welcome. Thank you for joining us on this Monday. Hi, Ben. Thanks for having me. So, yeah. I was just gonna say, listening to your little synopsis there

brought tears to my eyes yet again. Oh, well, I'm, again, I'm sorry. And like, I want to level set with people like people know I'm a center center, right kind of guy. I managed in my own head to reconcile sort of the idea of like, let's say you're a right winger and you are a teacher. I it makes sense in my worldview that you join a union that may espouse different politics than you and you pay dues because the larger mission of that union is to make sure that you are taken care of. And so you can focus on being a teacher and they are there to make sure that, that you have a contract that will allow you to live in dignity and do your job with respect.

That makes sense to me. This does not. This is, this makes me feel like Mugatu that I've taken crazy pills. And so I, so, so let's start at the beginning. Where is, talk to me about the legal challenge that you brought forth, I guess, a few months ago, or almost a year ago at this point. Actually, I think it's been closer to almost two years. Okay. It was not long after October 7th that we filed our first document. So we are waiting patiently for our turn to be to come up at the Human Rights Tribunal because there are so many of us and it's such a big case.

I think that could be part of the reason why it's taking so long. But another frustration in our system is that it's taking so long and in the meantime, Fred Hahn and QB continue to shout from the rooftops as loudly as they can and quite honestly insult and hurt and do whatever they can to their Jewish members and other members. Well, yeah, I mean, and other members who are not Jewish.

You don't have to be Jewish to look at this and say, you have derogated from your mission to such an extreme that I question the validity of the union itself. If you're spending this much time focusing on something that has nothing to do with your core mission and in fact flies in the face of the human dignity of a great many of your members, then in my mind, you've lost, I mean, you've lost a lot. It's not up to me to say they've lost the legitimacy that's up to members to decide.

But in my mind, they've lost any right to be viewed as a good faith actor and a responsible player in any sort of debate. I would have to agree with you. And as a member, I can say I believe they've lost the legitimacy long ago. Yeah. So, besides the legal challenge that you've brought forth, what other options are there? I mean, I know that people have thrown around the idea of decertification, which seems like an extreme thing, but if you can't count on the union

that you are paying into to act in your best interest and to follow its own mission, then surely that's a conversation that could come up. Although, like you and I have talked about this before, this used to be an issue with Fred Hahn, who has espoused some toxic and disgusting positions. But when CUPI membership, it came forth in a vote and elected him,

not only elected him, but elected him to a higher office. It became a CUPI problem. It became a union-wide problem. So actually, let me just clarify. He was actually the president of CUPI Ontario before this last election. He's been the president of CUPI Ontario, I'm not sure for how many years,

but for a fair number of years. But let me explain something to you. For as much as Fred Hahn stands there and says, he was democratically elected, democracy means that there's power held by the people. So let me tell you some of the numbers. So I was at the convention last year in 2024 when there was in fact an election when he did get re-elected and I was very upset. But let's just explain. There are 290,000, approximately, members of CUPI Ontario. Fred got a total of 594 votes to win that election.

What? So if my — Wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. 590 people voted for him out of a possible 290,000? 590,000? 594. Yes. Uh, okay. Does that speak to low voter turnout?

Explain that math to me. Okay. So only the people at convention get to vote. And the only people that get to go to convention are the people that are, I guess, privileged enough to be chosen, I guess, by their local, usually it's their local executives, some have a little bit of a vote there too, but this is not voter advocacy. I don't know what it would be if everyone was allowed to go. So, Carrie, hold on, you guys don't have, CUPE doesn't allow for mail-in voting or online voting. You have to be at the convention to vote. Yes. And so let me give you an example. My local, which is over 3000 people, I think

it's about 3200 people, only 14 people up to 14 people can go. So that doesn't necessarily mean 14 are going to go, but up to 14 can go. So up to 14 have a vote. So that's only about four tenths of one percent of our local. Yeah. And since there's a cost to each person going, not all locals can send us the maximum number of people. So it's a system that, well, Fred keeps saying I was democratically elected. It makes me like so frustrated because then people, you know, put on social media, talk about it.

Why is the membership keeping on voting? No, that's not what's actually happening. Because the game is rigged. The game is rigged to ensure that the outcome is predetermined. We don't have a lot of time left, Kerry, but I do want to sort of shift the focus to what we saw this weekend, this hands off Iran demonstration in front of the US consulate that was sponsored in part by QP Ontario.

When I hear sponsored in part by QP Ontario, I hear that your dues in some way, shape or form went to this event. Again, that's gotta rub you the wrong way. Yes, it does. And I have no idea how much money goes to it. But you got to figure at least like manpower is going to it, which is still which is also money, but I'm sure they're also contributing financially.

And you know, it's not just the Jewish members. There are many, many, many members who are really upset about this. But most of them won't speak up. But did you have I mean, is there a is there a movement of foot to try to figure out how to deal with this as one cohesive opposition within QP Ontario, and we only have about 30 seconds left, Carrie? I think the problem is people. That's where a lot of advocacy

comes in, like they're frustrated with trying to deal with it. So they're just like, well, I'm just going to not deal with it. I'm just going to, you know, they'll pay my dues, and, and, you know, let them do what they want. Because I can't change it. Like people are just so frustrated with trying to change it. But I do think there are people that are starting to band together and are starting to, you know, I know that there were locals that sent letters trying to have spread removed. And again, those were locals that didn't have a single Jewish member in. Thank you so much for joining us. I wish you all the best. Please come back anytime. Thank you, Ben. Take care. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And we are going to get to calls about the ever-changing,

ever-evolving situation in the Middle East and also its implications here in the United States. So, we're going to get to the questions that you've been asking. And then we'll going to get to calls about the ever-changing, ever-evolving situation in the Middle East, and also its implications here in the city of Toronto, because protests popped up following the U.S. bombing of Iranian nuclear facilities, because why not? Anything that's in defense of Western values or Western culture or anything that originates in the West is worthy of protest on the streets of Toronto.

We're gonna get to that. But first, wanna remind everybody that in our previous segment, we had a tremendous conversation with Carrie Silverberg. She's a member of QP Ontario. She's Jewish and she has taken great offense to the position that that union and its president, Fred Hahn, have been taking since October 7th,

involved in a legal spat with the union, Union and and its president Fred Hahn have been taking since October 7th Involved in a legal spat with the Union, of course with the protest this weekend Hands-off Iran sponsored in part by QP, Ontario all the more reason to speak with Kerry and we were discussing a little bit about sort of the Undemocratic anti-democratic path by which Fred Hahn became president. It shocked me. He was elected out of 290,000 members. He was elected with under 600 votes, democracy in action. And I guess it compelled our next caller to call in.

This is Jamie. He's a local president of CUPE. And I'm sure you've got some thoughts, Jamie. Thank you for calling on this Monday. Oh, I should have. Yes, go ahead. Go ahead, Jamie. Thank you for taking my call and good morning. Good morning. Um, where do I begin? So I've stood with Carrie Silverberg at the microphone on a couple of occasions. I stood at the microphone with other Jewish members just recently in May at the Ontario Convention. The problem I'm seeing is, you know, we have an equality statement and a code of conduct and an oath of office

and an oath of membership and they're not being respected. Those are the foundations of our union. We need to focus on, you know, better wages, safe working conditions, all the things that a union is supposed to focus on. It's in QP's mission. I've got it right in front of me. Improve the quality of life for its members by securing the best possible pay, benefits, working conditions, job securities, and pensions. And then there's this next part after a comma that says, while also promoting equality,

social justice, and strong communities. And so the way I choose to read that, and that part's open to interpretation, but the promoting equality, social justice, and strong communities has to be read in the context of the membership. That's what, so it's not about equality and social justice on the other side of the world, however you want to interpret it.

It's to the benefit of the members. Yes. Yeah, you're right. And it's, and it's all members. It's not, I'm going to pick and choose which, which group of members I'm going to uphold the equality statement or, or the mission. It's all members I'm going to pick and choose which group of members I'm going to uphold the equality statement or the mission. It's all members across the board. And there is a big

divide within QP. And it's very concerning. I'm okay with international solidarity with other worker groups and unions across the world. Yeah. That's fine, but getting involved in these conflicts and wars, it just, especially in a place like Iran. Where they have unions in name only, they are there to serve, they're there to snitch. Like that's what they are. They are organizations built to snitch on the workers. And if the workers are saying anything against the regime,

the union snitches on them and those people suffer the consequences. Well, you're right. And what about women's rights? Yeah. What about the two S LGBTQIA? I apologize if I didn't get that completely right. What about those rights?

They're non-existent. Yeah, because it's illegal to be a part of those groups. It's not even, they don't even view it as a moral wrong. They view it as illegal and it's up there with being a murderer or a rapist. This to me is, and let me say, because I said it before and I'll say it again to you, Jamie, is I may not subscribe to every element of a union,

I'm sort of right of center, but I absolutely appreciate the need within our system for a strong union to protect workers, to be their voice, to bring them together and have them protected by a union who will stand up for them staunchly. But time is binary, my friend, and money is binary. And every dollar that's spent on a hands-off Iran protest

is money not spent in furtherance of its mission. And every moment spent by its leadership focusing on planning and organizing a hands-off Iran protest is time not spent focusing on its mission. Yeah, I can't argue with you there. So what do you do then? Because it seems to me like the system is designed

to consolidate power around a guy like Fred Hawn if only 600 people vote for him out of 290,000. And he gets to say he was democratically elected. To me, the game is rigged. And it seems like it's designed not to allow people like Kerry and yourself to create some sort of opposition within QP to this sort of irresponsible, destructive and toxic behavior.

So there's over 750,000 within the country. And yes, 290,000 in Ontario. The way it's set up by our constitution is that the delegates at convention vote. So each local sends, according to the amount of members in your local, you're allowed so many delegates at convention. So our, we're allowed four delegates at convention because we're smaller local.

But Jamie, Jamie, like I remember brokered conventions in, in politics. I mean, my, one of my favorite moments was watching when my father became the leader of the progressive conservative party with all those delegates and you saw the sea of people. That's not how things are done in political parties anymore. By and large, we've moved towards a one-member, one-vote situation, a lot of it done remotely, a lot of it done online, mail-in ballots. Every single person's vote counts.

I would think it shocks me that a public service union that is all about the rights of the worker would not prioritize every single member having a vote to sort of to do it in that old brokered way is I mean it's a relic of a time gone by. Well, in order to change it, a constitutional amendment has to be written and presented at a national convention, which is every other year. And that's how you change things is through the QP national constitution. But Jamie, do you have conversations? And I wouldn't ask you to give me names, but do you have conversations with people like off the record within your organization who are, you know, who are the

ones spearheading these, these social justice. And I don't even, I wouldn't call it social justice because there's nothing just about supporting Iran. I mean, do you talk to people who are in support of this, these sorts of decisions? None of my members that I know of are in support of that. We do calls to our members every six months to see how everything's going and maybe they have questions that they were afraid to ask and we've heard nothing

and we just recently did our calls. So we've heard nothing about this. So we've heard nothing about this. My workers in my local want what every worker group wants is good benefits, pay, working conditions. They're focused on the workplace. They're not focused on elsewhere. It just really shocks me because, you know, whenever it comes time to, for a big contract negotiation, you know, we look to the unions, whether you agree with a union or not, we

look to them for moral clarity on certain issues, right? Like I want to hear from union leaders when it comes time for a big negotiation that takes place in public. I struggle to see, I can't look at the leadership of CUPE. I'm not a member, so I don't have a stake in it, but I look to them now as broken, as flawed, and as having abdicated moral leadership because of issues like this.

If they can't get this right, I don't know how membership can look to them and say, we trust you with the big stuff. Yeah, it's, it's definitely posed some barriers and some struggles. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know. It's looking pretty bad and it's divided. It's definitely divided. We've got a divided union, 100%. And I don't know how it's going to get fixed. Jamie, thank you for calling in. I think this is a conversation that we should keep having.

And I really appreciate you calling in and spending so much time with us. Really eye-opening stuff. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Have a great day.