The Ben Mulroney Show - Transparent Talk on Trans Violence

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

A horrific hockey game that ends in violence, bullets and burials. A trans shooter is the alleged culprit, but is that germane to the discussion, or is it on the periphery? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠   Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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With Blue Jay, you can help your firm stay ahead by giving your team a tax research tool they'll actually want to use. Get better answers to tough questions. BlueJ. AI for tax experts. As we in Canada are still reeling from and dealing with the sadness and the violence that befell the small town of Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia, following a school shooting last week, a little bit more than a week ago. Another shooting occurred in Rhode Island

when a shooter during a hockey game, a youth hockey game, allegedly shot his ex-wife and son, and while one of the sons was playing hockey and the daughter was there as well. and it has come to light that the shooter identified as a trans woman, born a man, but living as a woman. And there is no way to, these things happen so close to each other. I'm sorry.

I wish it wasn't the case, but they happen so close to each other that this is the place we are going to have the conversations that some people say we're not allowed to have. I don't like that. I don't like that. And so we brought back two people with whom I had wonderful, respectful, and I think eye-opening conversations last week. So please welcome back to the show, Dr. Laura Targovnik, I'm sorry, Associate Professor of Medicine and Director of the Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology at the University of Toronto. Also a trans woman in her 50s and National Post columnist Adam Zivo. To the both of you, I say, happy hump day. Happyonte. When I saw this crime that was perpetrated in Rhode Island, I thought, I really want to focus everything on our issue in British Columbia. But then this happened. And I was so caught off guard by how many people were telling us we couldn't talk about the shooter's identity and how they identified. We're told you can't do that. Can't do that.

That's transphobic. And then it happened again as I kind of have to now, Adam. Well, what I really want to emphasize before we say anything else is that the vast majority of people who identify as transgender are people and nonviolent. Of course. Of course. Frankly, I think that having a simple conversation like this and the tone that we're taking and the concern, I don't think it should have to be said. But if it does need to be said, of course. my goal in having these conversations is to ensure it never happens again.

And I want to have them in a way where the vast, the vast majority of trans people are kept out of it. Like, I'm not having that conversation. I'm talking about two people with guns. Well, so, I mean, and so to build on my previous point, although the vast majority of trans people are nonviolence, I think it's becoming evident that there are some people who are very unwell and dysfunctional who gravitate towards transgenderism, as a way to cope with their problems and their trauma. And we saw that yesterday, with me,

sorry, last week with Jesse, and we see it with this shooter, you know, who had a SS, like, had Nazi symbols on his arm. And I think it's okay for us to acknowledge

that there's this tendency, but at the same time to say that this doesn't represent all trans people, but it is still something that we should talk about. Well, and Dr. Laura, my question is what Adam just said there, I wish I heard from,

trans activists. These shooters don't represent the trans community. They don't represent the vast majority of trans people. Instead, what I'm hearing is you can't ask questions about the person's identity or risk being labeled a transphobe. And I don't understand why. Yeah. So I don't know if I characterize it that way. So like, you know, I'm, you know, I obviously in context of people in the trans community. I'm an advocate on social media, and people are talking about this. I think what the, you know, I think the challenge here is that if you say you can't talk about it, which I'm not saying is happening, if you say you can't talk about it, people are going to start to think you have something to hide. I think it's perfectly reasonable to mention that this person

had a trans identity. But, you know, however you define that identity, you know, this person, And as Adam's for described, while they identified as a trans woman by appearance, had probably one of the most tenuous connections to womanhood of anyone that I would ever say put that label onto. Can I ask what you mean by that? You know, this is a person who was not, you know, so this is a person, yes, they had gotten access to hormones. He apparently had surgery, but was living in a world in a way that sort of, what strike me

as being belittling of the experience of being female. You know, this person did not, appearance-wise, was obviously, you know, was hanging on to a lot of vestiges of masculinity. But, you know, setting that aside, you know, I agree that, you know, when we have a number of events that are clustered together, if you don't mention the identity, it looks like you're trying to hide something. I think we need, I think trans people especially need to be out in the open and talking about this so we can talk about it in a reason.

way because if we don't talk about it, people who are inclined to think trans people are dangerous are going to take control of the narrative and put the worst possible framing on this. When trans people are part of the conversation, we can at least contextualize this properly. Well, yeah, and that's one of the reasons I want to have this conversation with you is I want to make sure that as we have these conversations, the proper context informs how we ask the questions and where we go next. and I agree with you that trans people should be part of the conversations. I'm just, I'm surprised, I'm surprised by the, like I've said before on this show that I'm, you know,

when it comes to trans rights and the goals of the trans community, I'm probably 85% of the way there as, as an ally. You know, I have the issues a lot of people have with sports and, and shared locker rooms. But I think there are ways around that. I think there are a third options that could be explored. And because I'm not 100% of the way there, I have been deemed, you know, I'm the opposition.

And I want to be an ally. But because I'm not 100% of the way there, I'm sometimes deemed a problem to be overcome. And in a case like this that has hurt all of us, I think we all need to be allies in this conversation, doctor. I agree. I agree there's been sentiment in the trans community that if you give in on anything, that people will see this as sort of like, you know, the first domino to fall or you give

an inch, they're going to take a mile. I think there, like as you say, I think there are some legitimate points where the rights of trans people intersect on the rights of non-trans people that need to be negotiated. And I think when we have a hard line on these things and refuse to talk about them, I think it does the community a disservice. That having been said, I think the community has made mistakes in the past when we have refused to talk about contentious issues. We've abdicated the framing of those issues to our enemies who have basically gone on the offense and left us out of the conversation. And when that happens, we end up losing a lot of the hard-wanted accommodations and privileges that I think the trans community has gained in the last 15, 20 years that I've been a beneficiary of.

I think we need to be people. We need to have a seat at the stable. And it's uncomfortable as it is, I know for many in the trans community who feel put upon, who feel like they shouldn't have to negotiate things like their human rights. That might be a nice sentiment.

But if we're not part of the conversation, people will be making decisions for us and it's not necessarily going to be in our best interests. Adam, might this have absolutely nothing, speaking specifically of Rhode Island? Might this have had nothing to do with the shooter being trans? Could it just be a very angry ex? Well, so the divorce papers that the ex-wife file called this, you know, this the shooter, a narcissist.

And it seems to suggest that there was something mentally ill with the shooter. So, I mean, this could be comparable to any situation where you have a male who is mentally unstable and who spirals out of control and burns their relationships and then turns violence. But this goes back to my earlier point sometimes where deeply unstable people can sometimes identify as trans on somewhat specious grounds. and that we should understand these individuals as being different from the more well-adjusted and quotidian forms of trans people that, you know, we mostly thought of when we discussed the trans community up until recently. So, you know, I think that there isn't a huge difference between this shooter and these other violent males, but I think that's the point.

Yeah. Well, we are going to continue this conversation after the break. You know, one of the lessons I think we can glean thus far from Tumblr Ridge, is it seems that everything that Jesse should have been able to rely on, the systems that should have been in place for that person to rely on on guidance and help failed that person. And there could be a silver lining to that as we come out, a lesson that we can talk about when we come back from this break. But don't go anywhere.

More in my conversation with Dr. Laura and Adam, when we come back on the Ben Mulrudey show. What does top talent really want? Do our tax research tools make us seem out there? What does top talent really want? How can we stop losing people to our competitors? What does top talent really want? What if new grads don't want to work like it's 1999?

With BlueJ, you can give your people the tools they need to succeed. Tools that make it possible to go from tax question to client comms in minutes. Get better answers to tough questions. BlueJ. AI for tax experts. Adam, it feels from the few details that we, yet have. I think we're all hungry for more. It feels like there were two checks that should have triggered some sort of red flag in the case of a Tumblr Ridge. And one was the guns and

one was mental health. And neither of them seemed to have been triggered. And, you know, the results are what they are. And it feels to me like that is a perfect roadmap for the transcripts. community to say, yeah, if this had been done properly, if if the checks and balances that were in place to ensure that this person was in the right frame of mind at the right time to be taking the steps that they were taking to transition, we could have avoided some of this. And therefore, it feels like the trans community from a, call it a PR standpoint, could be insoling. from some of the bad actors out there.

Well, so as mentioned earlier, you know, we have these mentally ill people who are speciously identifying as transgender. And there's a problem where gender clinics haven't, until recently, focused on filtering these particular patients out because they focused on automatically affirming people's gender and then getting them onto a transition pathway as soon as possible. This was widely reported upon in the United Kingdom. There's a great book called Time to Think by Hannah Barnes. which I very much recommend to anyone who's interested in this story.

And we also know that this is happening in Canada, in the United States as well, although there is less reporting on it in these jurisdictions. So what I would argue is that if we know that some mentally people are presenting to gender clinics, you know, maybe we should put more additional resources there so that clinicians have the ability to not only screen them out, but flag them for additional mental health supports. We can think of this as a net to catch people who are really really, spiraling out of control and to loop them back into the healthcare system in a way that ensures

that they don't prey upon other people and that they get the support that they need. Dr. Laura, what's your reaction to that? Yeah, so I think, you know, like while I think the trans community has a role in terms of, in speaking out and condemning this, what the real failure here is, is, you know, I don't want to condemn Canada's mental health system, but clearly we had someone who had mental issues, mental health issues independent of their trans status that were quite impactful. And this person obviously was getting some help, but clearly didn't get all the help that they needed. And I think one of the bigger failures is, and I'm sure more reporting is going to come

to this and days to come is, how did this person get access to firearms? Firearms had been taken away from this person's house and then reintroduced to them. And, you know, I think one of the legitimate questions was when they're doing a risk assessment is did they consider Jesse to be male or female because that may have a different impact on the risk assessment when you're deciding whether you're returned someone's firearms to someone's house. But the real failure here is not, if we don't know, we have no data or we have no evidence to suggest that Jesse did this because they were trans. They did this because we're deeply disturbed and in a crisis and did not have the,

and did not have the resilience of the tools to deal with it in a pro-social way. So, but what I think, we're, I think the role of the trans community is, is we can't be hiding. We have to sort of acknowledge, yes, this person identified as trans. We don't know what there's, we don't think there's a direct relationship to this person's trans status and their actions. In other words, if this person was a cis male and had all the other similar mental health issues, this same outcome could have occurred. But we, but as Adam says, I think what's more important to me is trying to understand why do people like this? Why do people who are in the throes of mental health crises?

Why are some of them, and probably a very small number of them, latching on to trans status? And to what extent in the medical community are people sort of saying, oh, trans status, maybe this is the answer. Let's go with this and see if it makes you better. This is dangerous to the trans community when we get people who are deeply disturbed attaching that label because what their actions end up impacting what people, people think of the trans community in general, who, as Adam said earlier, are the vast majority are law-abiding, pro-social people who are just trying to make the way in the world and contribute to it.

And that's why I'm so glad we're having this conversation because I can see an outcome of this of this broad debate that we're having that could lead to more understanding by people on the outside of the trans community of. the trans community and more appreciation of the journey of trans people and the value of of being able to live your life as as you as you choose. I can see that happening if this conversation sort of stays on point at him. And I agree. And look, so what I want to the point I want to make here is that I was able to find that there was a statistically significant correlation between being transgender and, you know, being a shooter of a K-12 school in the United States.

And that since 2015 to 2025, I was able to find, you know, 75 mass shootings with an active shooter, of which three were transgender. So that's a 4% rate, even though in the United States, about 1% of Americans are transgender. So what that means is that we can think of, you know, transgenderism as a potential risk factor for people who might be school shooters. But that doesn't mean that we should cast suspicion upon all trans people and imagine that all of them are at risk of shooting up the school, much in the same way, how we know that being a male is a risk factor for being a school. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that we should treat

all men as if they're about to shoot up the school. No, absolutely. We can take that middle around where we can be realistic about risks, while at the same time, not attacking an entire community on the basis of a few very bad apples. Yeah. Yeah. And, but, but Adam, I've seen, I've seen some of the invective that's sent your way when you try to have these conversations dispassionately, and it can get pretty heated. It can, and it's unfortunate. I think that's really counterproductive. I think that the trans community in general, at least trans activists,

who are very different from like normie trans people who just live their lives. Transactive tend to be quite strident and quite aggressive, and there is an increasing awareness amongst them that this approach, which is hypermilitant, is not working. So I'm not surprised that, you know, they're attacking me quite aggressively on social media. And I just hope for their sake that they realize sooner rather than later that they need to change their tactics that they are going to protect their basic rights. Dr. Laura, did law enforcement do the trans community any favors by bringing out terms like gun person? No, I, you know, obviously you can get different opinions across the community.

I think we need to be honest in terms of, you know, so the issue that comes up is you had someone who there was an active shooter at one point and there's a community that's probably in fear and trying to take protective steps and also people who are trying to find this person. And it does nobody any favors if you are trying to apprehend this person and you're saying, I want to look for a woman. If this person clearly looks like a man, you know, people are not going to be looking for the right things. So I think there, and I think,

also when the police come after them and say gun person or even just say female, it really does rub people the wrong way. And it almost looks like they are trying to protect. And I understand the impulse here. The police understand that trans people are at risk for repercussions. And I think there's good intent behind trying to protect them. But I think there's a backfiring effect when it looks like they're doing something when it looks like there's they're trying to hide something now i recognize that there are many in the trans community who firmly believe and i understand the reasons why that if someone for whatever reason adopts a trans identity we should respect their pronouns in all circumstances um i think we need to be a little less hard line on on on on that you know especially when

someone like this gets involved in some of this clearly male coded violence um it's an i can understand i'm insulted. Yeah. Personally, I'm not saying to speak for all trans people, but I'm insulted when that person's referred to as female because, once again, it rubs off on every law-abiding trans person who was just trying to make their way when they have to be associated with this kind of person. Well, Dr. Laura, Adam, I want to thank you for coming back again for trusting me to have a conversation that I do hope it was of benefit.

And I thank you both for educating me so that we can keep this conversation. conversation. Like I said, focused on what matters, ensuring that this sort of tragedy doesn't happen again, and ensuring that the trans community is not targeted unfairly. Just as Adam just pointed out, most shootings are done by men. And I personally don't feel targeted when those discussions happen. So how can we make sure that that happens? And that this conversation leads to an outcome where everyone benefits. To the both of you, I say thank you very much and enjoy the rest of your week. Thanks, Robert.

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