The Ben Mulroney Show - Truth and Reconciliation -- some perspective, some honesty, and a chilling story

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

- Evelyn Korkmaz is a Cree survivor of the notorious St. Anne’s Residential School   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠��⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then, you had to go to the bank. Deposit it, and wait for it to clear.

Your pay really meant something. Payroll is incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor, a national day to recognize payroll professionals?

I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives. We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals.

We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the nation. National payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the backseat.

The whole way? The whole way. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on this Tuesday, September 30th. And today is Canada's National Truth and Reconciliation Day. It is now a national statutory holiday. And it is, it's fairly new. It is, there are certain, there are certain people who still don't know what it is. And I believe it's incumbent upon shows.

like mine to help foster that conversation. Because that's what today is about. Today is about understanding the ills of the past so that we can fix them moving forward. I've said many times that Canada as an idea, Canada as a nation is a net positive in the world. We have contributed far more. We have made the world far better than the ills that we are responsible for. But that in no way negates or minimizes the ills for which we are responsible. I've also said, I have no desire to take on the ills of other countries, the failings of other people. We in this country have a lot to answer for.

We have skeletons in the closet and we have ghosts that still linger in our souls and we have to deal with them. This is our original sin. This is our original sin. And this is the one that we have to hold. we need to be held to account for. I've said many times that the prime minister who is responsible for and who can achieve real reconciliation

and achieve a nation-to-nation, respectful relationship with First Nations, Inou and Métis people across this country, will be remembered as one of our great prime ministers. It feels like an impossible task to achieve, but I think part of getting us there is to have honest conversations on days like today. And later today, near the end of our show, we will have a conversation with Evelyn Corkmas.

She is a Cree survivor of the notorious St. Anne's residential school. That was operated from 1903 to 1976 by the Catholic Church in her home community of Fort Albany, First Nation. She was there from the ages of 10 to 15, and she experienced nothing short of horrors. I'm not going to get into them right now, but I am not exaggerating. I know what that word means, and I know her story.

And so I know that what I just told you is accurate. And if you are somebody who has said, you know what, we give them enough money, that should be enough, get over whatever problem you have, listen to Evelyn's story later today, and then ask yourself, is any amount of money enough to get over that? Or is there something else that needs to be brought into this dynamic besides money to find real reconciliation and then ask yourself who were you at 10 years old what kind of person were you at 10 what would have how much did you need your parents at 10 years old how much did you need them for your identity for your safety for your security for you to become the person

you are today and ask yourself what would happen had you been ripped from the arms of your family from the embrace of your parents from the safety of your home and you had been thrown into a school where you were told everything about you was evil and wrong and it needed to be peeled away and you needed to be turned into somebody else. And when you hear her story, I hope you do so with an open heart and an open mind because that's what today is about. Now look, truth and reconciliation is about truth. So we have to be honest about the conversations that we're having. And I can atone for, and I can take responsibility for what I'm responsible for.

But that in no way takes care of the entire equation. Are there issues inside indigenous communities? Absolutely. Can the federal government solve it all by themselves? No. Are you or I responsible for what happened back then? No, of course not. We weren't there.

Have the now adults who were part of the residential school system suffered? Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And we need to learn about it. I just said at 1130 today, in our final hour of this show, we're going to tell you a story that will unequivocally demonstrate the evils of the residential school system. And if you're somebody who pooh-poo's the notion of intergenerational trauma, listen to her story and ask yourself, is that you sure that that's not something to get passed down? You sure? This is a woman who testified in front of the UN committee. for human rights and the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, the UN Committee Against Torture and the World Organization Against Torture. She had a private audience with the Pope in 2022 when he visited Canada to deliver his

apology to residential school survivors. So let's talk about where we are because the Truth and Reconciliation Committee issued there. We're 10 years in after the commission laid forth their report. 40% of the 94 calls to action remain stalled. only some like creating this national day for truth and reconciliation

have been realized now there is public awareness good stuff has happened new polling shows that 67% of Canadians are now familiar with residential schools I didn't know about them

when I was a kid a droulde did you? No, not at all do you feel that that number is accurate yeah because I think a lot of is happening in schools but when you talk to friends, colleagues?

Oh yeah, yeah absolutely it's something that's been in the news and look you know I was asked earlier today, what do you think of, you know, the sort of the supposed evidence of the unmarked graves? And look, no bodies have been recovered. I find that curious.

To me, that's not germane to this conversation. As a matter of fact, that's a canard. That takes us down the wrong path. There are very real ills that need to be addressed. I'm not going to deal with speculative ills, right? Yeah, talking about the grave situation is a story unto itself. What happened in these residential schools is bad enough. And again, Evelyn's story will give you some chills.

Yeah. And overall, 62% of Canadians and 66% of indigenous respondents are optimistic about reconciliation's future. Now, that's great. That's good news. That's very good news. But again, truth has to happen in both directions. There has to be accountability on both sides. I very much want the Canadian government to be responsible for what they can change.

But there has to be accountability on the First Nation side as well. And I've said before, there is a very sizable amount of money, federal funds, that are pushed into Aboriginal communities each and every year to the tune this year, or against last year, of $21 billion. Now, when you account for First Nations status and non-status combined, it's 1.7 million people in this country, Métis make up about 660,000, and in a way about 70,000. So the total indigenous population in Canada is about 2.4 million or roughly 6% of Canada's total

population. So let's say 2.5 million. When you, when you factor the fact, when you look at the fact that $21 billion goes in to service or to help or to the aid or to the benefit or whatever you want to call it, 2.4 million people, you would expect better outcomes than we're getting. I don't know what the, I don't know what machine this money goes into. All I know is that machine is churning out woefully underperforming results. And I don't know if it's bureaucratic. I don't know if it's grift. I don't know if it's anything like that.

I have no idea. And it's not for me to judge or it's not for, because I don't know. It's for the people in charge to figure out. But if we're having a conversation about truth, then that's a truth. Any system that you put $21 billion into to help less than 3 million people, we should have better outcomes. and it's incumbent upon us at some point to figure that out. If truth and reconciliation is as important to us as we need to look at the system that we have in place

and is it doing what we want it to do, is it working as intended? There's no way you can look at the system and say, absolutely, it's doing what needs to do. And so at some point, there needs to be some sort of accountability, some sort of audit, some sort of something as to where this money is going. and why it's not helping those it is supposed to help. That is my, as general as I can put it, because I generally don't know. I genuinely don't know what goes into these programs

and why it's not giving us the outcomes that we should have achieved by now, given how much money has been put into these programs and services over the course of decades, if not over a century. All right, so we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we want to hear from you on the Ben Mulroney Show.

How are we doing with this? How are we as a nation moving forward with truth and with reconciliation? Today is not about politics. It's about understanding. And has any of this hit home with you? Does any of it resonate? Do you feel that we're moving in the right direction? Or do you think we're just spinning our wheels?

We want to hear from you next on the Ben Wilmerney show. This episode is brought to by Tron Air. For the first time the captivating world of Tron breaks out of the grid. Aries, a highly advanced program, journeys into our world on a dangerous mission, marking humankind's first encounter with AI beings. Featuring an electrifying original soundtrack by 9-inch nails, Tron Aries is a must-see movie event, filmed for IMAX and made for the big screen. Experience it only in theaters, October 10.

Get tickets now. In the 70s, four young women were found down. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hixed, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer, and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon music

by asking Alexa to play the podcast, Crime Beat. Welcome. back to the Ben Mulroney show. And today is Canada's National Truth and Reconciliation Day. And I put the question to the listeners of the Ben Mulroney show, does this, does the event land with you? Does today land with you? Is it important to you? Do you feel that there is, there are ills from the past for us to atone for? Or do you think that, you know, there is a better way for us to spend our time? I think it's a fair conversation to have. And I want to hear what you have to say. So let's start with Shelley.

Shelly, welcome to the show. Hi, Ben. How are you? I'm well, thank you. Good. I have basically firsthand knowledge of this whole situation. My daughter-in-law is Cree. Okay.

She lived on a reserve when she, and she lived in foster homes until she was four because her mother was brought up in a residential school. And she did not come away from that unscathed. She had drinking problems. problems, drug problems, and could not take care of her children. So my daughter-in-law was taken away from her siblings and adopted by a white family. Okay. And when she was finally adopted, they got in the car. And before the car was even started, her adopted mother turned around to her.

She was in the back seat and said, firstly, from now on, your name is going to be Georgina. Of course, she had her own indigenous name. Yeah. And Gina is my daughter-in-law's name. And she had her doll with her. Her doll was taken away from her. Her hair was cut. And she was told that they were right away going to change her clothes and take her clothes shopping.

Yeah. And Gina said it wasn't until she was nine years old that she realized that this actually was her permanent home because she was always waiting to go to another foster home and another one and another one. So how is your daughter-in-law doing? She is doing wonderfully. She is the most amazing woman I have ever met, having gone through all of this. She is positive, loving. She's the most intelligent woman I have met.

Shelly, that's wonderful to hear. Has she done? Was there any work that she did on her end to, I don't know, get closure or to understand what happened to her? Has there been therapy? Yeah, tell me. She's a university-educated woman. She has raised seven children. Wow.

And they all have very good jobs. She is remarkable for having gone through. what she has gone through. Her mom is still alive. She seldom sees her. She has suffered with addiction due to being in a residential school. She was raised in a residential school. Well, Shelly, I want to thank you for sharing that story.

Please pass our best on to Gina. She seems like a remarkable woman. I thank you for telling us her story. My pleasure. Thank you. Bye-bye. Hey, let's welcome Shane to the conversation. Shane, what do you think on Truth in that, and Truth and Reconciliation Day.

Well, you guys aren't going to like what I have to say, Ben. Yeah, tell me. Good morning, first of all. Good morning. And like I said, Mr. Serena, I'm going to be very honest with you. My dad is a good way. He comes to the Alderville First Nations, which is north of Coburg, if you know where that is. And that's populated about 300 people.

My dad left the res years ago. And you know why? Because it has been nothing but banned chief corruption and counsel corruption all these years. Yeah. And I'm going to say something. White people, if you're listening right now, stop pandering to natives. They don't want you to do it.

You're embarrassing yourselves every day when you put an orange shirt on and you start pretending like you're sympathizing with them because you're not. You're showing them something that is completely false. What do you mean by that? Because, I mean, do people think putting on an orange shirt on a special day every year

it's going to accomplish anything? No. Do you want to know where the real corruption lies been? Where? is that our government gives billions of dollars away every year to reserves, whether it be the Tayananaga or the Aldervilles or any other reserves in this country. And you know what that money goes to? It goes to make more smoke shocks, more dispensaries. And at the end of the day, what does the government do?

They're double shooting themselves in the foot because you know what? They cry to the Canadian public. Oh, we're losing money on black market smoke, black market cannabis. You know what? You're the creators of your own problem. You should have somebody who's doing oversight on the native communities and the band chiefs and the council. And then you might start to see your money go to where it should be. And look, Shane, I sort of, I brought that up as a question that, you know, the amount of money that goes into services and programs is not giving us outcomes that we want.

You've given us your reason for that. And I think part of truth and reconciliation is to have that hard conversation on the First Nations side of the conversation. Oh, he left, but I'll continue this because you know what? I think what he brought up was a perspective that probably does need to be talked about. If we're having a conversation about truth and reconciliation, then we have to speak the truth. And if that's his truth, then we have to share it. And if this is as important, and look, wearing a white, an orange shirt every year doesn't solve anything. That's the height of performance and performative nonsense.

But if we are teaching our kids a part of our history that for a very long time was shrouded and mitigated and poohed and just tucked away and we do so by highlighting it with an orange shirt, then that generation as they grow up will be empowered to take different decisions and make different choices. And in that way, it's not performative. It's building a generation with more information than my generation had. that's not performative that's planning for the future and I think a lot of things can be true at the same time you can have corruption on

bands I can say that I had nothing to do with the residential school program I I'm not going to own that those crimes but this is my country

and I want this country to be the best version of itself and we can't be the best version of ourselves, locked into a history that we have not been held to account for. Justice has to, at some point, justice comes for everyone. And we should be, we should be, we should buy into that. And so that is, I think, I think all those things can be true at the same time. And I do appreciate that that gentleman called in.

George, let's hear what you have to say. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, good morning, Ben. Well, I mean, same with your last caller there. I mean, I'm all for teaching it, explaining to the kids, like you said, it's our part of history. But at the end of the day, they're going about it the wrong way. It seems like they're forcing it down people's throats. I think people had more respect and felt more for the indigenous people prior to this day.

I mean, you're saying we should be held to account. Who would be held to account? No, the country. Not you and me. It is not my personal burden to carry. It's our nation's burden to carry. And look, listen, I agree with you. There are some bad actors who are taking advantage and, you know, this, the idea of, you know, respecting, are there better ways for us to make sure we honor our treaties?

Yes. Do I respect this entire land back nonsense as if I'm living on stolen land? No, I don't respect that. And I think that is unhelpful to the conversation. So, but we have to be able to have real conversations. and not all of them are complementary to ourselves, but I'm sorry, I'm taking over, George. You continue.

Well, sorry, yeah, last point. If we want to help people to account the politicians and people who are working in government, how about they donate their monthly check every reconciliation day back to indigenous camps? Because they're the ones who are benefiting from taking over their land. You don't see a politician volunteering anything. All they want you to do is, like, the last caller said, go buy a Tim Horton's orange donut and wear a shirt.

You want true feelings and true. reward and make people feel for it, start with government. They're sitting on this land and they're benefiting from it. Not me. I pay enough tax. Well, listen, George, I want to thank you very much. I want to thank everybody for calling. And this was a, you know, these are tough discussions. Not everybody who's participating is participating in good faith. This is a relatively new process that we are on. We're not going to get it right every time. But we are, you know, We have decided as a nation that we had the English, the French, and First Nations. They are the founding peoples of Canada.

That's what we've decided as a country. And it is incumbent upon us to make sure that everybody is able to take advantage of this country and the benefit of being Canadian as possible. There is a path for it. I don't know if we're 100% there. I don't know if we're on the right path. But we're on a path. And I appreciate the work that's been done thus far.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney Show and welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show on this National Truth and Reconciliation Day. And I've been saying it all morning that, you know, for our children, for the youngest amongst us, Truth and Reconciliation Day for as long as they can remember, has been part of their education. It's that annual thing that they do every year. and the polls are are bearing out that awareness of the residential school system is taking purchase. When I was a kid, I didn't hear about it. I know that my producer can say the same thing.

And you can't fix what you don't know. And so on that front, I think a great, a positive is occurring in this country. But for older Canadians, we tend to default. to the path of least resistance. And that means saying there's nothing to see here. Sure, there's some work that needs to be done, but by and large, we know what we need to know to move forward. I challenge you to say that after this next conversation.

We're joined now by Evelyn Corkmas. She's a Cree survivor of the St. Anne's Residential School, which operated from 1903 to 1976 by the Catholic Church in her home community of Fort Albany, First Nation. She has been a staunch voice sharing her story both with the UN as well as directly with the Pope himself in 2022 when he visited Canada to deliver an apology to residential school survivors. Evelyn, I want to thank you for coming to the Ben Mulroney show to share your story on this day. I appreciate it. Thank you very much and welcome. Well, thank you for having me.

So you, I tried to talk to our listeners before that you were there from the age of 10. 10 to 15. Do you remember what life was like at 10 years old before you went to the school? Before I went to the school, yes. I was a happy child. I did what all children should do, ride your bicycle, you know, skip with a skipping rope. You were 10 years old? Yes.

You're 10 years old, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and do you remember, do you remember the moment, or do you remember the feeling of leaving that existence and going to St. Anne's? Well, of course, yes. It's very, uh, traumatic for a child to leave their parents and go to an, an environment, an environment that you're not, you know, sure what to expect or, you know, um, what you're surroundings are going to be like you don't know if you're being removed forever or just for a short period of time. No one explains this to, you know, you as a child. Were you made aware of the reason behind it? Did they tell you it was for your education or for your good, what, what justification did they have for taking you away from what sounds like a fairly lovely childhood?

Well, we were told that we needed to go to school, but because I come from the reserve that the school was located on, I didn't really understand why I had to board at the school. Why couldn't I, you know, come home every day? Sure, sure. But in my case, I did not board at the school for the whole. year. I just went there during a time called Breakup where it was difficult to cross from one island to another island. Fort Albany consists of three different islands and you have to cross them in order to go to the store or go to school. So during that time, it's a difficult time to cross from one island to the other island. So I had to stay there for a duration of

maybe two months out of the year. Okay. And there were, Evelyn, there were, you know, there, there are pictures of life inside these residential schools. And I'm, I'm sure that for some people and at some schools, they were schools. They were places where people got educated. I, I can't, I can't believe that every single residential experience, residential school experience was yours. But that doesn't negate what yours was. And it feels to me in learning your story that your experience at a residential school was, I mean, it was a school in name only. It, it, it, the name belied a, uh, a far darker purpose.

Can you tell me about your experience there? Well, you know, you walk into the school, it's made out of concrete, it's very cold. Before I went to St. Anne's, I also went to a convent called Cumbermere. It was called St. Mary's Convent in Cumbermore, Ontario. those nuns were very friendly and very nice to me you know yeah so when i went to st anne's i expected the same treatment that these nuns at st anne's were that's totally opposite um they weren't friendly they were um very rigid um you know it was like joining the army basically you know except you were 10 years old yes you had a line up for lunch

you know, it was just not a very good experience. No child should go through that. And, you know, it would be a nightmare for me if I ever learned that my grandchildren, you know, would have to go through that. I would not allow that. No. And I have to believe that there was an element of life there that was, I don't know if it was by design, but, or if this was the goal. but chipping away at how you saw yourself, chipping away at the identity that you had.

And in that way, it wasn't educational. It was re-educational. Well, in my household, my father used to tell myself and my sister that we could do anything we wanted to do if we set our minds to it. But that all changed when you went to, the residential school, you were, you know, not worthy of being heard. All the ideas you had were ridiculous, you know.

So if you were having a conversation about what you wanted to be when you grew up, the adults would tell you why you couldn't do that. Oh, yes, yeah. So it wasn't about letting you know that the future was yours and that tomorrow was better than today. It was about letting you know that you had limits on your capability. You had limits on your capacity. You had limits on your future. You had limits on yourself and you better recognize them right now. Yes. And did you start believing that? Well, of course, yes. I didn't think I had a future ahead of me. I didn't have the self-confidence I had before I entered the school.

But there were things that happened, too. We went on the grade 8 trip, I think it was. And I remember coming down south here in Ottawa, and we went to visit our pen pals. Yeah. And I remember their life. It had a big impression on me that they were free. The household was loving, you know.

uh they lived on a farm where we were able to ride horses it was just so you know you couldn't compare the world we came from to the world they were living and in that moment evelyn were you able to say to yourself when you saw that did you say what why am i living this life and they're living that life or had they had you been successfully programmed to believe that you didn't deserve the life that you were witnessing A little bit of both, actually. I wondered why, you know, they were so free and, you know, to be able to get up on a horse, you know, and just, you know, ride away and why we didn't feel the way they felt, you know, I would look at them in amazement, I guess, or just a little bit of envy, you know, if you will. and I kind of wish that, you know, they would have adopted me.

We were going to talk about what takes this school and the experience of this school from just being god-awful to notorious and that I think brought you to the UN Commission on torture. And I couldn't believe this when my producer told me, Evelyn, but there was at this school, there was an electric chair. Yes, there was. It was before my time, but I had heard rumors of this electric chair way before the Indian residential school settlement agreement took place. And then I heard it was dismantled, but I never personally sat on the chair.

I have friends and relatives that did. Yeah. So they created this chair for entertainment purposes, as I hear. Yeah. And they put the children on the chair, and there was a buzzer that would give them a shock and their legs would, you know, move up. And then everybody would laugh.

It was entertainment. And, you know, I guess the children went along with it because they didn't know any better. No, of course. And sometimes, I mean, listen, when an adult is doing anything, you know, a lot of kids will default to, I'll just do what I have to do to get out of this situation. Evelyn, what happened when you were finally separated from this school? What sort of life did you go back to? Well, it wasn't very pleasant at first. I, because I had so much trauma, I went to therapy for many, many years.

I struggled with a post-sumatic stress system, the disorder. And I also have a speech impediment because what happened to me scared me so much, I guess. so when I speak and I hear myself stutter it reminds me why I stutter so it's something that you could never put away you know it just comes back to haunt you on daily basis

but you have to learn to live with it because you can't go back to the past and change things it is what it is you know you have to try to deal with it and move on and then also you have to count your blessings that you are one of the ones that are you know have survived and are not being searched today on you know the school grounds yes i i've got to ask i've got to ask you know you've testified before so many committees the u.n committee for human rights the rights of the child against torture the world organization against torture. The one that

sticks out to me is your private audience with the Pope in 2022 and he visited Canada to deliver an apology to people like yourselves who are victims of the residential school system. What was that audience like? What did the Pope say to you

when you recounted your story to him? Well, I didn't really tell him my story, really. I did say that, you know, we have waited 50 years. I have waited 50 years for this apology. And, you know, and I also said, we welcome you with open arms and this is, you know, the treatment we received. But there was no comment. He just nodded his head. And when I had a private meeting with him, I presented

an empty boxed and asked him, you know, to put the residential school documents that were sent to Rome in this box and send them back to Canada where they belong. This is our history, our indigenous Canadian history, you know. And a lot of people ask me, you know, why are these documents still so important to you? well we all know that clergy were notorious for keeping journals and the documenting everything these documents can hold you know the where our loved ones are buried on the school ground this would help us in so many ways instead of searching in site A if the document says they're in site B, it would be easier for us. It would be time-consuming, you know, like we're all getting older.

And we need to find where our loved ones or schoolmaids or, you know, ancestors are buried. Evelyn, I don't have a lot of time left. And I do want to talk to you about, you know, the fact that we are discussing this today, that for years and years, there was nowhere for you to put this trial. There was nowhere for you to discuss this trauma, and we find ourselves now in a world where a day like today exists, where we are living in a time where the opportunity and the need to have these discussions exists. And I wonder if there is a part of you that's optimistic for the future, because it does feel like there are, there is, we're reaching a tipping point where enough Canadians want to. be part of hearing these stories and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and the weight of the, you know, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the painful experience I had, you know, um, um, and about the children that never made it home. And it's about the 94 calls to action.

Only 13 of them have been implemented. We have a long way to go. You know, there's a lot of talk, but we need more action. You know, it's fine to listen, to learn, you know. But we need the government and the Catholic Church need to act. on the promises of reconciliation. Evelyn Corkmanz, we have to leave it there, but I want to thank you for coming on to the show

for sharing your story with me and for the listeners of the show. And on a day like today, I think it's very important. And I want to thank you for your honesty and your candor. And this is a story that I will not soon forget. And I want to thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

That was Evelyn Corkman. as a residential school survivor and you know on this day of truth and reconciliation stories like that they happened it's real it happened here in this country that a person like myself I love this country so much I'm proud of this country and and and in order to be proud of it you have to take it for what it is you have to take the bad with the good I'm not somebody who's going to sit here and pretend that everything this country has ever done has been is worthy of praise. There is, there is a shame and there is a stain on our past. And this is it. This is Canada's original sin. And we need to atone for it in any and all ways. And part of that

is to hear, hear these people and appreciate that what they are telling us is, is their truth. It's the truth. It's not their truth. It's ours as well. It is the truth. It is the truth. It is the truth of what Canada did to them. And I'm happy that we were able to have. that discussion with her today. I wish we could have done an hour with her. What are you taking away from today? I know you just spoke about that, the importance of hearing her story. I find what you say, yeah, it's not the, her truth. It's the truth. It is the truth. And, you know, where we go with these stories, you know, you got to sit with them, you got to live with them, you got to see what comes out of you after that. Anyway, it's been a heck of a day.

And I wish I thank you to everybody who's stuck around. Thank you.