The Ben Mulroney Show - Tumbler Ridge day 2 -- LGB alliance on the trans debate

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

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Well, I hope that after the day that we as a nation had yesterday, focusing our care, our love, our well wishes on the people of Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia for the terrible loss that they say. suffered at the hands of a school shooter. I hope everybody was able to get home. And if you've got somebody to hug, I hope you hugged them real, real hard, real hard. But we got to jump right back in. And sadly, the news of Tumblr Ridge continues as more information about the victims and the shooter are coming out. But before we do that, we want to turn our attention to Ajax, Ontario. The Durham Regional Police have issued a statement about a mail arrested after a firearms investigation at his school.

There's a 17-year-old male from Ajax. And here are the charges that he is facing. Carry concealed weapon, unauthorized possession of a firearm, unauthorized possession of a prohibited device, possess weapon that's dangerous, possess firearm with ammunition, possess Schedule 1 substance for purposes of trafficking, failed to comply with release order. He was held for a bail hearing and remanded to a youth detention center. This, yeah, this is...

Look, I'm glad they got the guy. I'm glad they found him before he could have done something with this stuff. They received information that a student at the school may be in possession of a firearm and they located him, took him into custody, no incident.

They found drugs in a firearm, but with the prohibited extended magazine were located in the male's possession as well. To me, this is the system working. This is the system working. Being held, held for a bail hearing and remanded to a youth detention facility. Yeah. That's what you do with someone like this. You hold them. So I commend the Durham Regional Police for identifying that this kid was a problem, arresting him, finding out that yes, in fact, the stories about whether or not he had those

those guns in his possession. Yeah, they were true. And here's what we do when we find out that somebody is dangerous. We lock them up before trial. That's what you do. That's what we should do. So congratulations to them. And now back to the story that has been dominating not just the headlines, but our hearts, our heavy broken hearts, the mass shooting in Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia. before we jump into it, we have some, a little bit of audio for you. This is a Tumblridge parent,

talking about being called by their kid. And then from 2.30 on to like almost 6 o'clock, it was tears and wondering how when and how our kids are going to get out of there and what's going on. And at this time, we had no idea there was any kids even killed at all. I was crying outside of the school. I'll tell you that right now.

I was in tears. and I still, it's so hard to talk about right now because of the kids that we lost, and I've watched these kids grow up since preschool. I've seen them all right through soccer and hockey and whatever else. It's devastating to see what's going on with our kids right now. I give two shits about what the shooter is all about. I give two shits about that. I don't care.

we're here for the victims of these kids and these families about these kids that lost their lives for absolutely no reason whatsoever and I'm sorry for crying but it's this is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life ever and to coach my kids through this is going to be a difficult thing to do we are here for the victims and make no mistake

the victims aren't just the children who lost their lives isn't just the teacher who lost her life. Even the mother and certainly the stepbrother who were killed. They're victims too, but the families of everyone in that town, they are all victims of this. They're all victims of this shooting and this shooter. So I want to read to you a little bit about some of these people who passed away. A young man by the name of Abel Mwanza Jr.

He's remembered by his parents as bright. curious, scientifically minded, and his death resonated in Zambia, where his family has deep roots. Ezekiel Schoenfield, 13. He played forward for the under 15 Tumblr Ridge Raptors. His grandfather wrote that the family is, quote, absolutely broken and grieving alongside all affected families.

Kylie Mae Smith, 12. She was called a princess. She left for school with her brother. He survived and she didn't. Her mother described her as gentle, artistic, loving, and full of light. A go-fund meet for her family has raised more than $22,000. Let's listen to the parents of Kylie Smith. I let her off. I let her go to school with her brother Ethan in the morning and just, I soaked in that moment watching them walk in the door together for whatever reason.

I didn't know it would be the last time they'd go to school together. The police didn't tell us anything. We had to find out through the community and through kids and rumors in the stands. We had to count because we were watching the news put up body counts and we weren't being told anything. And so we were doing numbers and math and figuring out, is our kid in a helicopter or is our kid dead? Like, it was so much confusing.

No one told us anything all day. Hold your kids tight, telling you about them every day. You never know. You never know. Yeah, I saw the picture of Kylie. She's my daughter. She's Ivy. Gentle, artistic, loving, full of light.

Could be describing my daughter. God love them. There's also the 39-year-old female teacher who is among the dead. And there's two other girls who have not yet been publicly identified. Now, something a little odd about what I've just described to you. We got a lot of this information from the Toronto Star. And in that article, it was a list of the victims describing the victims. And right after they were done with all of these people, they listed the shooter and described the shooter.

In the same paragraph, in the same formatting as they did the victims. I'm not reading too much into this. You've been a page break. Then you tell us about the killer, the murderer, the mass shooter. I want to understand what happened to the shooter. I want to understand how it got to that point. But make no mistake, my understanding is not so I can feel bad for this person. This person destroyed a community.

This person blew a hole in the heart of a nation. The parents of Kylie Smith, 12-year-old, will never see their daughter again. I don't have any empathy for the shooter. I want to understand what happened to them. I want to make sure that if there was something that could have been done to ensure this didn't happen, it was. And if it wasn't, I want accountability.

But this person was not a good person. Bad things might have happened to them. I'm sure bad things happened to them. Bad things happen to a lot of people and they do not go down this path. So I want to understand and I'm going to do so respectfully. But to the Toronto Star, do not gaslight your readers. Do not casually add the death, the passing of the shooter, alongside the people that they killed in a visual turn that makes us lump them all together.

No, no, no, no, no. My heart is full with the sadness caused by this killer. Do not put them in the same list of people who did nothing wrong that day. That to me is really shady journalism, really shady journalism. I'm getting really tired, really tired of the narrative that journalists writ large, everyone, because you're a journalist, you live up to an ethical code. This is a failure. And it could be even worse than that.

This could be deliberate. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. Keep that person's name away from the rest of them. You do not lump them together in the same paragraph under the same formatting. Give me a GD break. All right. When we come back, much more on this story.

This is the Ben Mulroney show. Is this really the best use of my time? Can my clients quick tax questions ever be quick? Is this really the best use of my time? Well, busy season always end in Barnow. Is this really the best use of my time? Do I have to turn down partner to spend enough time with my kids? With Blue Jay, you'll have more time to do what's important to you?

by completing hours of tax research in seconds. Get better answers to tough questions. BlueJay, AI for tax experts. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. We want to talk about, you know, yesterday we said, did being trans impact this shooting? So we don't know, but we also don't know if it didn't impact it. And one of the things that we really want to drill down into today

is the mental health aspect of this shooter. And it seems like the more we learn, the more we uncover. And I suspected as much yesterday, I think when the tale of the tape is told of this tragedy, I think that the general consensus will be that this was a person riddled with myriad intersecting mental health issues. And the trans aspect will be a sliver. of that larger narrative.

But yesterday on the David, David Cooper show, a professor of psychology from the U of T, Steve Jordans, Jordans, rather, they had a long, long conversation. But he quoted Desmond Tutu, and I think I want to use this as the launching pad for this conversation. We're seeing it.

So Desmond Tutu has a famous quote where he says at some point, some of us have to stop pulling people out of the river and go upstream and find out why they're falling in in the first place, which is much more about preventative mental health. Like, let's get them early. Let's find out what the root causes are. And let's try to do something about it then. That's the promise that social health offers. I think if we really do take it seriously, it's the right way to address a vast majority of mental health, physical

health and happiness issues. And even the division we see in schools. I think it's, you know, if there's one thing that we need to be focusing on, that's the variable. I was under the impression that we had the tools to do a lot of that already. I was under the impression that, I don't know, if the police were called to your home and they noticed that someone was in a mental health crisis. There also happened to be guns in the home. I don't know. Maybe the cops might take a look at their social media footprint and see what's what. Like, I thought that to me is the definition of preventative justice.

Well, we've seen some of the posts that this person made. Yeah. They're disturbing, to say the least. Yeah, well, let's, again, let's remind you what the RCMP said yesterday about how the shooter was on their radar because they went to this person's home. Comments on that. Police had attended that residence on multiple occasions over the past several years, dealing with concerns of mental health. with respect to our suspect. Now, I want to be clear, again, I want a level set,

and I want everybody to know where we're coming from when we do this show. There's been a lot of talk about how, you know, the undercurrent of violence in the trans community, the allegations that more and more mass shootings are perpetrated by the trans community. The statistics are showing that the majority of mass shootings are perpetrated by men. It's written here as cisgender men. I'm not doing that. Men.

The Violence Prevention Project at Hamline University of Minnesota found that in mass shootings, which they define as four or more fatalities in public spaces with no connection to criminal activity, fewer than 1% of shooters were transgender. I kind of don't care about that. Like, I want to put that out there as what they say as fact. I don't kind of care about that. In Canada, we don't have a lot of school shootings. We had La Losh, Saskatchewan, we had Polytechnique, we've got this one.

Beyond that, I mean, there's some smaller ones after that, but that's, those are the, those are the three legs of the table. And so you don't have enough shooters to build out a data set. So to me that's irrelevant. I'm talking about the here and the now and this shooting and this crime and this tragedy and this loss of life. That's all that matters to me right now. I'm not looking for trends.

I'm not looking for buckets to put people into. I want to talk about this shooter and this crime and this town. And in this instance, the RCMP had attended to this person's house multiple times on mental health checks, on concerns from neighbors. Jesse von Rootsilar had serious mental health issues. Full stop. The police took guns away. begs the question, how are they able to get them back? That's an unanswered question.

And to get those, the SSRIs, the medicine that you take for depression and anxiety, you need a mental health assessment. Did the system fail, Jesse? I'm kind of starting to think it did. Does that excuse what they did? Absolutely not. Murderer, mass murderer, killer, vile. Absolutely. But Jesse didn't wake up one day and just wasn't born to kill people. So we got to understand how they got there. Years and years apparently of mental health and substance use and abuse struggles, according to friends and family.

It had hallucinations, set the fires, sometimes in the house during drug-induced breaks from reality, had stopped going to school as their condition worsened. I think a lot of us have seen the video online, which we did our best to see if it could be debunked. By all accounts, it seems real, of Jesse with short hair and what looks like makeup on to emulate Heath Ledger's The Joker. sitting down and cackling and laughing in a way that doesn't make me think they should be around guns.

I'll put it that way. This was a person. And to me, there was no joy there. This was a cry for help. That's what it looked like to me. There's a Reddit account, believed to be Jesse von Rout-Selars, described, quote, going crazy and accidentally burning down part of the home after using psychedelic mushrooms. The Reddit posts detailed depression, drug use, frustration over delays and accessing gender-affirming hormone therapy in rural British Columbia, which speaks to the isolation we talked about yesterday.

In one post, they wrote the long wait for treatment was so distressing and made them suicidal. Von Routselaard had recently been hospitalized and diagnosed with multiple disorders, but wasn't under any enhanced supervision at the time. Why not? It doesn't make any sense. this idea that oh my god i was saying yesterday if only we knew we knew then what we know now what else did we need to know what else did we need to know this was a a person that was struggling so deeply isolated i don't we don't even know yet if there was bullying but we do know they weren't in school so socializing wasn't a thing right there was no if you haven't

been in school since you were 14, maybe even before that, because the numbers are really tough to track at this point. But let's say 13. I mean, we talked about our kids and how they missed out on the ability to socialize during COVID. This is COVID times three sitting at home alone as the world passes you by and you are dealing with mental health issues. You are not coming out the other side a well-positioned human being at all, at all.

Now, I don't know why they still don't know. There's so much we don't know. And I'm getting frustrated. It feels like we should know by now. But we don't know when they left school. Was it of their own volition? Did the teachers recommend it? Did the school board recommend it?

Did the mother ask for it? Like, you know, there's hints being dropped online. And I'm loathe to quote this stuff because there's so much misinformation out there. but there are those reporting that the mother was enthusiastic about their child transitioning. And we haven't been able to confirm it or not. But if there's an element of that that's true, did she help accelerate this transition? And there's so much we don't know. But all I know is if your priority is to raise a happy, well-adjusted kid,

keeping them at home and on drugs over the course of years in a small town where they are transitioning and there's no one else around who can help them build community, I don't know that I can say that you're doing your job as a good mother. I don't. I need more information. But if those things line up, that's my conclusion. You're watching your child descend into darkness. And you are not doing everything you can to help them. And then one day they wake up and they turn a gun on you.

Ah. Anyway, we've got a lot to talk about. Our next guest is joining us. We've been chasing this group for a very long time. There is a schism in the LGBTQ community. And we're talking to somebody from the LGBT, full stop, Alliance Canada. We've been chasing a guest from this organization for a long time. It just so happens that we're going to be.

We're able to organize it now. The timing is either fortuitous or uncomfortable. We'll have to see. But listen, as a straight man who worked in entertainment television, most of my colleagues, for the better part of my career, were either women or gay men. So I have a data set to mine from. And in my experience with my friends, I have noticed a frustration building up in, you know, the broader community, the alphabet community,

the LGBTQIA plus plus plus plus plus plus plus community. And a desire to get back to a simpler paradigm. And now it seems like one group has done that. You know, every time we say the letters, we go LGBTIQIA and some people go farther than that. But this group is the LGBT Alliance Canada, LGBT, lesbian, gay, by Sexual Alliance Canada. Short, sweet, and I think laser focused.

Please welcome to the show from LGBT Alliance Canada. Morgan Johnson. Morgan, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, Ben. It's very good, not uncomfortable at all. I think that, you know, given the circumstances, it's just a little bit too late for Canada.

but it's definitely never totally too late. And I hope we can work on. What do you mean it's too late? What's too late for what? Well, I should back up and say that just two days ago on February 10th, there was a mass shooting. And the mainstream establishment media has failed to report accurately that the shooter was a transgender individual. And of course, that this is always very painful to see a mass shooting, especially in Canada, which has far less mass shootings than the United States. And so, you know, it's very painful to see not only the regressive backlash against gay people, often, you know, being lumped in with transgender people.

but, you know, we have to work on this. And Canada is way behind the United States and the United Kingdom in comparison. So I know that in the United States, I mean, it's interesting. It's sort of a double-edged sword, isn't it? Because the sort of the pendulum swinging back to a less radical place in the United States is it also comes with it, the emboldening of some of those regressive voices that I think you're probably alluding to? Well, you know, it's actually extremely hard to separate the online Twitter brain and the memes,

which are always very hurtful, and I think it scares people. And it also gives mixed political signals. And comparing that with the actual data, in terms of hate or, you know, crime statistics and crime statistics statistics overall, Canada's really doing pretty badly either way you look at it. Canada's really in a mess. Generally speaking, since I believe it was Bill 16 that introduced gender as a protection into the Constitution.

And of course, I think since Trudeau's administration, you could say, just maybe a year into it or I would say into the later end of the last term, hate crimes were skyrocketing. It was just unbelievable the amount of backlash our communities were facing. And a lot of it was due to things that the public were perceiving as all lumped together. For example. Well, that's what Morgan, that's what I want to talk about with you.

Because if people go to LGBBI alliance.ca in big bold letters, as Canadian, lesbians, bisexuals, and gay men, we reject the new homophobia that calls itself, quote, progressive. The world is waking up to the new problems faced by LGBT people. And then it goes on all around the world, people are taking notice that over the past decade, radical and unscientific ideas about human sexuality, sex, and gender have been seeping into the mainstream without proper examination. LGBT and trans people are becoming alarmed at what's taking place. and we're mobilizing to restore reasonable fact-based discussion and open dialogue. Politicians and the media are increasingly spotlighting this issue.

Now, talk to me about the genesis of your, the LGBT, right? Because like I said, the alphabet name has typically been longer than that. What was the decision to cut yourself off from the TQIA Plus? Well, you know, I could probably begin anywhere because there's so many places to, to spiral off into. So you might need to actually interject to help me keep me on track. No problem. I will. Thank you for the tip. Oh, yeah, no worries at all. It's just, it's been a long go. I think Canada is,

I'm not giving up hope on Canada. I think we need to stay positive. But really what it boiled down to for me was jurisprudence. It was, you know, this idea of how are our rights defined and how are persons defined in legal terms and policy terms? And if we define persons by circumstances that do not exist, and we define our rights in ways that make no sense, or in my opinion, futile, not really a modern conception of rights anymore, where we were equals, that's a modern conception of equality, the replacement that has come in place of that is identity politics.

And this identity politics has slowly grown more extreme over the last 15 years. It's at a stage now where it is totalitarian. And if even as a gay man or many of my team are lesbians, if they were to disagree with. somebody who is of some kind of identity that the society really wants to pander to. For example, trans people. We would instantly lose our jobs. We may lose our careers.

We may end up in jail. We may end up with a defamation lawsuit. It's just a complete no-go for civil liberties. So was it that within the coalition, the alphabet coalition that there was, was it that on one side you had lesbians, gays and bisexuals who wanted to entrench the rights that they had fought for.

And those rights were, again, speculation, you tell me if I'm right. Those rights that were hard fought for were being targeted again because of a perceived militancy from the identity politics side of that bargain? Well, I should clarify that, you know, there's a lot of scared people. There's a lot of really fearful.

There's a whole new generation that has no idea what they're doing. There's supporters who really support gay rights and they just don't know what to support anymore. There's all these elements going on. But how I would describe it is that we knew by 24, that something was horribly wrong. That was after at the tail end of the Obama administration. I come from the left wing, of course, and nowadays I'm maybe not so much.

But I would say that we knew that there was a lot of crazy people. And it was pretty easy to spot them. You would just want to tiptoe around them and walk on eggshells And hope that they would freak out, you could just point them to freak out on somebody else and not on our own. It was very tribal. But I would say by 2020 or maybe 2021, it actually became a safety issue all over the world. It was just fanaticism, violence, and just complete incoherent identity politics. Morgan, we're so excited.

Let's take a beat right there. We're going to take a break and we come back. I want to talk about that, the safety issue. I want to drill down into the work that your organization does. And I want to talk about, you know, the uncomfortable conversation that we have to have around this shooter and see where we can see if we can come up with some answers. So don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulroney Show continues. We are continuing our conversation with Morgan Johnson from the LGBT Alliance Canada.

Morgan, what is your group's position? on the mass shooting that we as a country witnessed two days ago. Oh, boy. Well, that's hard to condense, but I'll do my best. I think that if I were to describe the old epistemic crisis that we were in, it would be wokeism. And what is happening two days ago is far, far worse than wokeism. We are seeing wokeism jihad. This is a something that, you know, I would refer to counterinsurgency studies or papers, you know, looking at why do people carry out mass shootings? Why do people get radicalized? And what is going on and what are the factors that we can learn from this so that we can prevent it in the future?

Well, and I think that's as as I do my job, that is what I am trying to do. I want to learn from this. I want to understand where the system failed this person. I'm not making excuses for them. They are a killer, a mass murderer. However, to understand them is to ensure that we can, we don't necessarily have to repeat these failures. But it feels to me like every single safeguard that should have been in place failed. The mental health safeguards failed. This person should have been on some sort of watch.

They should have had far more doctors' attention than they had. They were not socializing at all. They were staying at, from what I understand, staying at home. So there was no level of socialization. They didn't have a community. And then there's the guns element. The police knew of this person's mental health issues. There were mental health checks at the house.

They knew there were guns in the house. The guns were returned to the house. And so you put that all together in a blender. And a mass murderer comes out the other side. Well, you know, it's a real tragedy because these kinds of radicalizations are not as uncommon as we'd like to believe. And while I may push back a little bit on the far right, I know there's a lot of regressive pushback. I don't want to make it seem like I'm being soft, though, but, you know, the evidence that trans people themselves are just super violent, you know, it's mixed. And there's also a lot of barriers to studying the issue due to a fear of offending people.

Well, that's, Margaret, I mean, we're witnessing that. The police after this was over said they were going to respect this person's pronouns. And look, I want, I have to say it every day because people hear what they want to hear. So I'm going to make it very clear. I want people who have safely transitioned and who believe, who identify as trans, I want them to live as happily and as productively as possible.

I want them to be as happy as I'm allowed to be. That's my dream for everybody. But this person was in crisis and they were transitioning at 12. The American Medical Association has come out and done a U-turn over their initial endorsement of gender affirming care at a young age.

So like, yeah, go on, sorry. Their family seemed quite supportive. You know, there was some indication that the mother was like trying to support their kid from being bullied or something. And this is awful that she, too, was murdered by this individual. And if I were to really make two really core points, and I mean, the first point is going to be a grave prognosis. And I don't mean to give a grave prognosis, but what we're seeing is social engineering. And the liberal milieu that produces the individual that is radicalized and extremely high risk, it's not just happening to these individuals that I may describe as trans,

you know, whether or not, you know, more on the right wing, I think we kind of describe them as maybe confused, that they're actually gay or maybe they're autistic. But if we look at this liberal milieu, which is, you know, this person may have been on a lot of pharmacology. Yeah. And they're also being bombarded in a filter bubble. So algorithms, trapped, lonely online, indications of, you. identity fusion, that they identify with a group, but they don't have much of a self. And that they have extreme views that are just inherited from the unbelievable ideology that young people are bombarded with. This dynamic of social engineering is actually hitting

all children today. It's not just some of them. This is civilization. This is civilization. It's really dangerous for us not to get to the bottom of it. And while my focus may be on sex-based rights versus gender ideology, that's just one of the neo-tribal groups. That's one of the identity groups that is rising up. But there's, you know, anybody could have an identity and then radicalize that identity. It's happening to everyone, Ben. Yeah. So I want to bring this back then to your group.

When something like this happens, does that emboldened you or does that reassure you that you have made the right choice? Because if I had to guess as to what the priorities of the LGBT alliance are, it's preserving the rights you have and making sure that they line up with the rights that everybody has. and and I wonder when you see something like this tragedy and a conversation naturally comes out of it about the trans identity and mental illness, are you, when you see you're like, thank goodness, we sort of started our own thing because otherwise we would have to,

we would have to be part of this conversation. Oh, well, Ben, there's no limits. We have got to do more. If we know better, we are responsible. to do better. And I'm going to make the case that this is not just for, you know, the little scope that we have. This matters for everybody. And I encourage everyone to get on board, work with us nonpartisanly. The key thing that we need to restore in order for even just the basic level of sanity is modern conceptions of rights. And the modern conception,

is based on equality rather than special people defined by things that don't exist, given special rights that shield them from all of reality. So that you're not even allowed to question them or they have unlimited power over you. Did the special rights that you're talking about, did that, was that the gasoline on the fire that consumed Tumblr Ridge? You know, I do not have enough sources enough to make that claim or that assertion. However, I can make the broader statement that especially with people who are extremely troubled and who are isolated alone and perhaps who have severe problems with their behavior, we need the equality. of rights with reasonable limits to be able to challenge that behavior in a reasonable way to say, hey, you did this thing, it is unbelievably unacceptable or whatever it is.

It could be anything. It could just be even the right to disagree with one of these people and not lose your job over it because on the basis of things that don't exist, identity politics, who is to say that somebody comes after you and it's even honest. It could be dishonest. It could be go way too far. Sorry, I only have a little bit of time left. And I want to finish on this because I've heard you say a few times that, you know,

rights based on things that don't exist that you must have gotten some pushback from previous, you know, people who are part of the broader, call it pride community. Well, you know, I last year at prehist, you know, I took everyone from my former university who had been cancelled. A lot of people had been expelled, some people got lawsuits. I signed them up with the, I think it was the Faculty Association of March with me in support of gay rights. And I believe we were attacked and then they called security and then security called the police on us. Oh gosh.

And nobody could communicate with us as to what was going on. Are there terrorists? Was there like some danger? And at the end of the day, when the police finally were able to communicate with us, they found out, oh, it's just, you know, Morgan tried to invite everyone who has canceled in real inclusion. Yes. Real inclusion.

Yeah. Just because. Real inclusion means hanging out with people you may not like. That's inclusion to me. Morgan Johnson, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate what I think was a conversation I've been looking forward to. So thank you so much. In market news, Sam's apartment fund is up 10 points after significant contributions over the last quarter.

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