The Ben Mulroney Show - University Campus' celebrating Oct. 7// Marineland woes get more confusing

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

GUEST:  KEVIN VUONG/Former MP  GUEST:  Phil Demers / former Marineland whale trainer If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠���⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank.

Deposit it and wait for it to clear. Your pay really meant something. Payroll was incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor,

a national day to recognize payroll professionals? I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives? We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the next day

The payroll party to the nation. A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan. You know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What?

And I'm sitting in the back seat. The whole way? The whole way. Welcome to the Ben Mulrini show. Today is Tuesday, October 7th. Two years ago today, the world was thrown into chaos by the death cult Hamas, who perpetrated the single greatest crime against the Jews since the Holocaust. We're going to talk about that a little bit later.

That will inform a great many of our conversations today. But before we jump into that, I wanted to share a story that is unique to me, but you may find interesting. And a lot to be proud of in my family, a lot to be proud of with what my siblings. have accomplished. And yesterday, I was proud to hop on a plane, middle of the day, to go to Ottawa, to go to the French embassy, where my sister was honored with one of the highest awards that the French government can bestow on anybody, the Chevalier de Lesion d'Henard. And this was an honor that was founded, believe it or not, by Napoleon Bonaparte in 1804, I think.

And eventually it came to, it was originally for military honors. And eventually it was adopted by successive French governments beyond Napoleon to honor all sorts of accomplishments. And if I guess, if you want to win it as a non-French citizen, you do so for supporting and strengthening La Francophonie, French culture in any way that you can. sister, who has been a member of the Doug Ford government for years, has been the minister in charge of Francophone Affairs. And a lot of accomplishments under her watch, most notably the creation of the Universite de L' Ontario Francai, the first of its kind, modernization of the French Languages Services Act.

Under her tenure, the Franco-O-Oterian flag was designated as an official emblem of Ontario in 2020. She announced that Franco-O-O-Oterians could request the free replacement of a driver's. I like this one. Driver's license and photo ID that would then include the accents on their name. That hadn't happened yet, and not for nothing, that doesn't happen in Quebec. She did something in Ontario that doesn't happen anywhere else. She worked to raise Ontario's Francophone profile internationally, including Ontario's observance. observer status at the Organization International de la Francophonie. She's done a lot of great things for

the Francophone culture here in Ontario, honored yesterday with the Chevalier de la Légion Donore. And in 2016, my father got that award. I don't know how many families can claim to have two knights in their family. I got two and proud of them. So that was the basis for why I was in Ottawa. I had also never been to the French embassy before. Now, that's interesting because for nine years, I lived right next door to the French embassy, 24 Sussex, right next to 100 Sussex, and that's the French embassy. And so I went in, and what I saw was a majestic embassy. The plot of land that the French embassy sits on probably about the same size as 24 Sussex, probably about the same size. And what they've done there, the structure that the French ambassador holds court in,

is daunting and majestic and the kind of place that when you walk in, you feel a sense of history and the importance of that country because that country built that building for that ambassador to say this is how we are representing ourselves in Canada. So why haven't we done that right next door at 24 Sussex? What is stopping us from doing that? I have told you before. I think that that house is garbage.

It needs to be raised to the ground. And they need to build in its stead something significant. Something that tells people who visit, we as a nation take the leadership of this nation seriously. We need a home field advantage so that when Mark Carney or whoever is prime minister invites Donald Trump over. Donald Trump appreciates that we are a nation whose identity matters to us.

We respect the office of the prime minister to defend us against somebody like Donald Trump. Instead, our prime minister is living in a cottage across the street because we can't get our act together to build a house for the prime minister. That is a housing crisis in and of itself. My humble opinion is we take that thing down to the studs. You build three sub-basements down.

You get rid of that stupid pool that Pierre Trudeau built. I liked using that pool, but is it really the best use of the space? There should be a dedicated wing where there are government officials working 24-7, like a West Wing. So the prime minister at any point can go to work morning, noon, or night. And it's always active. There's always work going on there. You could build the single greatest leaders home on the planet built with Canadian architecture, Canadian ingenuity, Canadian lumber, Canadian iron ore, Canadian everything,

Canadian labor. It could be the greenest home on the planet displaying Canadian green initiatives. It could have not only a zero carbon footprint, it could push energy back onto the grid. It could be a sign to the world that Canada is forward thinking. Canada is inclusive. I mean, imagine if it was designed by a First Nations architectural firm. Just think about that. Think about what that would say to the world. And like I said, home field advantage. We need leaders who walk into that house to feel what Canada is. So that guys like Donald Trump go home and reconsider the nonsense that we are the 50 first state. Anyway, that is my two cents on that.

At the end of the night, after that was done, we went to a restaurant and you know that I love talking about food. There is a restaurant in Ottawa called Cantina Gia. It is owned by the same owners who, years ago, opened a great restaurant called North and Navy. We had a family-style dinner. My sister's friend, Darcy, treated all of us to an incredible family-style meal. Every single thing on that menu was one of the best versions of that thing I've ever had. The Insalada Mista, one of the best. The Caesar style was good.

It wasn't one of the best I've ever had, but it was good. The Arancini, phenomenal. The tuna crudo, phenomenal. And then when we ultimately got to the main courses, the steak, I'm not a big fan of Italian steak, this was phenomenal. Phenomenal. The roasted carrots, loved them. But the caccio pepe rigatoni, come on. And the pomodoro, don't even get me started on the pomodoro.

It was incredible. It was incredible. If you are in Ottawa and you want a wonderful Italian meal, I cannot recommend that restaurant high enough. I cannot. It was phenomenal. Cantina Gia. And listen, when I lived in Ottawa, the restaurants, they sucked. The restaurant scene was terrible.

I think we had Chi-Chi's, Mexicali roses. You had L.A. wings. I used to go into the market with my friends on a Friday. We'd have L.A. wings and we'd sit and we'd count the hookers that were in the in the buyward market. That was the fun that we would have. Count the hookers. And now there are.

And, yeah, now there are, there's a thriving restaurant scene in that city. Clearly, you want to say something about counting the hookers? I played that same game when I was at public school growing up. Yeah. Downtown Toronto. I'd be like, let's show, hey, let's watch the ladies of the night on the street during the day. I mean, there wasn't a lot of fun to be had in Ottawa when you were my age. You could go to the, you could go to the museums for free.

That was awesome. want to do on a Friday night. My public school is across the street from Philmore's strip club, so the entertainment was there. Oh, look, good on you. Yeah. Good on you. Sex ed.

Free sex ed. Exactly. What do you think? We learned a lot. All right. We've got a big show, including the author of a new book, The Prime Ministers. I'm going to ask him about, I don't know, maybe he knows something about my dad that I don't know about.

That's coming up. But, hey, some October 7th remembrance ceremonies, they're taking a different approach to remembering the massacre of innocent people. It's one of the grossest aspects of today, and we're going to dig in after the break on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And yes, I'll be reminding you all day that today is the horrible anniversary of October 7th,

when the single greatest crime against the Jewish people was perpetrated. Since the Holocaust was perpetrated on this day two years ago when Hamas broke across the border into Israel and kidnapped, raped, and wreaked havoc through the countryside of southern Israel until they retreated with hostages, some of whom are still being held underneath the rubble that is a big chunk of Gaza. And perhaps we're living in a time where there might be peace on the horizon, but we're not there yet. And a lot of us have been wondering why Toronto and Canada and the Western world has been besieged the way it has by protests. I contend and smarter people than I have the knowledge to back it up and the facts to back it up that this is a concerted effort that is not organic. It is bought and paid for by forces on the other side of the world. But the state of play on a day like today where we should be remembering the victims of October 7th, yes, we should always hold in our hearts the innocence. that have died since October 7th, but today is October 7th, and it would be the right thing to do

to remember those who lost their lives today, and remember the reason that the Middle East is in a state of war because of what happened today. Today was the flashpoint that lit the match that started the flame and the war in Gaza. That's why it started today. And on this day, I mean, we can, listen, we can start with the state of play in Canada. M.P. Roman Baber gave us a really interesting social media post yesterday. When I first saw this post, I thought Roman Baber was on the other side of the world. It looked like he was in the Middle East. No, he's in Midtown, Toronto, right outside a synagogue.

Let's listen to a little bit of Roman Baber describing the scene here in Toronto. There's all sorts of security activity all around me, drones, police drones. And as you can see, there's metal detectors entering a synagogue in Midtown Toronto to commemorate October 7. It is shameful that this is how Canadians live now. Enough with platitudes. We don't want tweets. We don't want to say that hate is unacceptable. we need to understand the source of it

and the source of this fear is the Islamic jihad that has now made its way into Canada this is on all of us yeah it is and one of the things that surprised me the most after October 7th was the how well organized

the other side was on day one almost immediately the celebrations started and they have not abated in any significant way as far as I'm concerned. On October 7th, sorry, help me out here. What are we looking at? This is new. No, it's just the police are saying that they expect issues.

Yeah, of course they expect issues. Why do they expect issues? Because this city has laid the groundwork to allow for this for two free. in years. For the last two years, protests have popped up with impunity whenever they decide they want to choke this city, deprive us of our rights to walk and feel safe in this city. Protesters descend on one intersection or another. The most disgusting times was when they decided that for whatever reasons, they were going to protest in residential areas. They're predominantly Jewish, if that doesn't show you how rabidly anti-Semitic they are, I don't know what

will because there's no reason to, no reason to ever protest a residential area in this city unless your goal is to intimidate the people who live there. And the cops watching them sit there idly while protests invaded the personal space of Jews in this city was to me a shame that we as a city have to carry forever. So that's what we've been enjoying as a city. That's what we've been paying for to the tune of $20 million a year for the past two years. Oh, let's listen to the police and what they say about these demonstrations. Our responsibility is to safeguard the public while upholding the freedoms that define our city.

We urge anyone who witnesses or experiences hate-motivated behavior to report it. Our expanded hate crime unit is actively investigating all reports, including those arising at demonstrations. Yeah, I mean, those words ring hollow to me. I've seen a few arrests. I've seen a fewer arrests. But the amount, the amount of hate I've heard at these protests compared to how many arrests I've seen, it's, they don't compare. Like there's no, the outcomes do not reflect the hate that's being put into the system. And so I sure report to what end, to what end?

What are you going to put in a file and write it down and then put it in a, put it in a drawer, never to be seen again. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I don't buy it. Jews don't feel safe and haven't felt safe for years. And that's on the cops. And so, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Now, meanwhile, in Ottawa, there's a government bill C-9 called the Combating Hate Act. They're clarifying what hatred is.

The bill defines hatred, more precisely for the purposes of hate propaganda offenses. Under this definition, hatred is the emotion that involves detestation or vilification that is stronger than disdain or dislike. Jesus. It also clarifies what does not constitute hatred, e.g. speech that merely discredits, humiliates, hurts or offense. Why are we telling you about Bill C9? Well, because we have proof of hate that is happening today across the country. There is a today at 3 p.m. on the day that Hamas started this war that Israel most certainly will finish. They are holding a celebration, quote, honoring our martyrs.

At the Student Center, at the University of Toronto, Mississauga campus, at 3 p.m., honoring our martyrs. They're not, listen, they are not martyrs. They are murderers. They are rapists. They are terrorists. They are the worst aspects of humanity that all got together, crossed a border and killed babies, beheaded people, raped women, took hostages, murdered senior citizens. You want to call them martyrs? That is terrorism. You honor them. You are honoring them. That is hate speech. That is hate speech. And if you think it's just Toronto, it ain't in Montreal at Concordia. There's an October 7th rally. And the picture of this is a celebration of these terrorists. There's a second protest in Montreal because Montreal's got a special place in its heart for anti-Semitism. resistance until liberation that's that's what this one's called at the plastays are at 7 p.m.

tonight resistance until liberation well and what does liberation mean well we hear we've heard them chant it since the beginning from the river to the sea and what does that mean they want to push the Jews into the sea and drown them all and so we said it yesterday on this show there is absolutely no space in the world for the people who support this for Israel to be a nation state. None. None. They don't care. They do not care that they could end this war by putting pressure on Hamas to accept the terms of this ceasefire. Because that's not what it's about. It's not about a ceasefire. What do I see here? I mean, the posters. Yeah, the images in the posters are of kaffia clad, masked men. It's, it's dark. It's insidious. The one,

Montreal protest poster, those look like Hamas fighters. Yeah, they are from. Yeah, they look like Amos fighters. And for some reason, I guess because our friends in, where is this one from? Edmonton, Edmonton does it differently. They're doing a car rally for Palestine marking two years of genocide. I mean, I'm going to say it again. Like, it's a height of projection. The only genocide is the genocide that Hamas has been striving to perpetrate

on the Jews. It's in their goddamn charter. All right, don't go anywhere. When we come back, a former MP weighs in on the government's role in tamping down on hatred. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. It is October 7th, and I would like to make space on this show for people I respect, people who have stood up. for what is right since day one and there is a no better person to share this time with

than one of the staunchest allies of the Jewish people of this city and indeed the state of Israel than Kevin Vaughn. Kevin, welcome the show. Thanks for having me, Ben. Apparently you just sent some information to my producer about something going on at Concordia. Obviously,

Concordia has been a hotbed of anti-Semitism and pro-Hamas propaganda since almost day one. and you sent him some information. Tell me about what you just sent him. So I've gotten to know Concordia Jewish students who I've tried to support through this entire ordeal and they're actually now suing the university.

But they sent me today notification that Concordia has actually had to close down their campus because yesterday there were two people arrested for disrupting a class midterm exam. And guess what? They weren't Concordia students, but one of them was found in possession of a metal bar and several incendiary devices.

And they were getting ready. Buddy, like, this is what happens when you allow for this, when you do not tamp down on it on day one. Like, look, I actually was, I was just going to use some imagery that I probably would have used in private had I said in public I would have gotten in trouble. So I'm not going to say what I thought I was about to say. but the point is if the police don't establish where the line is and say you cannot cross this line

if the administration of a school doesn't tell its students there will be consequences if you break our rules they will break those rules and then they will go to the next step and the next step they will escalate it is the natural order of disorder and we as a society have given permission to these people to behave in in, in, in, uh, in, uh, in, um, sort of anarchist ways for far too long. And this is the next logical step. And not for nothing, my friend, but when that story came out in the national post about the, um, the anti-Semitic, uh, conversations that were taking place over WhatsApp at

I can't remember what university it was. It was an Ontario university. Um, and, and, and, and, at Western, if any, Anybody thinks that was specific and unique to Western? They are naive beyond any sort of, there's just naive. And so of course that was happening at Concordia. So of course somebody was actually going to go move from words to actions and show up with incendiary devices.

Of course that was going to happen. Yeah. No, listen, when authorities do not act, they will become complicit. Because in effect, what the message they're sending is that what these people are doing is okay. Yeah. And from Montreal to Toronto and different parts of this country, it has become normalized. Yeah. Our mayor here, Olivia Chow, is complicit because she is not acting.

Inaction is a choice. You have to choose not to do anything. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. And Kevin, like this is, there's the rubber's meeting in the road. I mean, yesterday, the group unapologetically Jewish sued Olivia Chow and the mayor of Montreal, Valerie Plont, as well as the cities themselves, as well as their police boards, as well as their police chiefs for exactly that, for creating this environment that has made Jews feel unsafe. And I guess, I mean, you could argue it's a charter violation of their right to life and safety.

And I think that's the gist of it. And you know what? Good on them. Good on them. Because for years this has been happening. And people like you and me have been saying, unless you do something, things will get worse and they have done nothing. That's right. And unfortunately, cities, governments writ large operate based on liability. So you have to sue them to get action if they're not going to do, you know, if the moral argument, if doing their duty, if standing up for Canadian, values or Toronto's values is not going to convince them, then the only way left is the stick. And I can tell you as someone who, you know, used to get the city to fill potholes,

fixed sidewalks, and take down dead trees based on positioning it as a liability issue, because we would try the nice way. We'd ask the city counselor. We'd go to the city and nothing. And then also I'm like, oh, this tree. branch looks like it's going to fall because it's dead and it's going to hurt someone and then all of a sudden the next day Ben it is gone and addressed. Yeah. Yeah. And that's all they that's all they understand. And meanwhile, so how do you like what we've just talked about is is is a lawsuit that I think is is is the right thing. Uh, at well, there's no right time where there should never, this should never have happened. But what do you make of Toronto metropolitan university students, uh,

suing the school for, I guess they believe they were liable, calling them anti-Semitic. If you go back to the genesis of all this, the letter that they wrote saying that Israel is not a real state, they said some virulently anti-Semitic things. But as far as I'm concerned, there are no winners here. You've got the racist kids and you've got the feckless leadership of the university. They didn't have the courage to stand up for their university itself against the pushback that Erickson, Edgerton Ryerson was a racist. He was not. And they allow that university to be consumed by misinformation and propaganda. So of course this was going to happen. You got feckless leaders and you've got anti-Semites and they're going to be fighting it out in court. To me, good, good. This is exactly what should be happening. It's the natural progression, right? Eventually, they're going to start to eat their own.

Yeah, yeah. Because there is no, unless you adopt wholeheartedly, every single thing that the other side wants, you are a traitor. Oh, yeah. They deal in absolutes. Yeah. And so you can never truly satisfy them because eventually at some point, they're just going to get down to the fact that they hate you anyway.

Yeah. They hate Canada and our Canadian. values. So you can never truly satisfy this foreign interest. Well, listen, I've been saying it forever. Everything will never be enough. No matter what you give them, everything will never be enough. You want to explain to me why this is the most pro-Palestinian government in the history of Canada and Milanese-Holi's house got protested?

You want to explain to me why protests are still going on after this government recognized for the first time ever a Palestinian state? and why those protesters haven't turned around and tried to put pressure on Hamas to accept the terms of the ceasefire because everything will never be enough because it's not about that. It was not about peace.

It's not about a fictitious genocide or a starvation campaign that isn't happening. It was always about destroying Israel. That's what this is about, full stop. And the proof is before us. And I said it yesterday and I'll say it again, Kevin, we don't have enough members of the media calling that side out. Got plenty of people calling me out saying that I'm unfair to people who call in claiming a genocide without any proof.

But instead, where is the response, where is the focus on journalists doing the responsible thing and asking these protesters, why are you not now demanding that Hamas accept this ceasefire? That's a good question. I can tell you as someone who has been booked for interviews. On CP 24, on the way to the interview, magically all of a sudden being canceled by the producer. Why? That's a good question. And there is a clear infiltration, you know, and this isn't conspiratorial.

No. I'm not saying, you know, these people are working for Hamas, whatever. But this ideology, this toxic radical ideology of a death cult. has infiltrated and permeate so many aspects of Canadian society. And we see it manifest in so many different ways beyond just this conflict, right? The same ideology that wants to break this city and why we see the shelter being forced undemocratically on New Toronto and so many other neighborhoods that they then have to come up with their own lawsuit, with their own money. And by the way, they're the third neighborhood in the city of Toronto to have to do. do that. Yeah, I've never seen this before. I've never seen this many lawsuits lining up for all

sorts of different reasons against the city simultaneously. I've never seen this before. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, buddy, listen, I got a run. I'm up against a clock. I didn't realize that sometimes when I have great conversations, I don't even look at the clock. But hey, thanks so much. Thanks so much for everything you do. Be well. Best to you and your family. Go J's go. Thank you, Ben. And may the hostages be returned home to their family. 100%. Thank you, my friend. All the best to you. All right. Up next, the marine land story is get more contentious by the day. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney's show.

We have been following as closely as we can what is happening at Marine Land and the 30-some-odd whales that have been held in captivity, that if something is not done soon to find sort of a place for them to live out the next chapter of their lives, really bad stuff is going to happen to them

and this marine land for the longest time since a lot of people's eyes were open to so this is just not how we treat animals like a lot of us went there as kids and thought it was fun and takes a while for society to sort of realize what we've actually created and what we created is not good

it was not good and I was shocked earlier on when we first started telling this story but to how many whales are in captivity I assumed it was like three or four. It's 30 some odd. That's too many whales. And this was really highlighted for us by Melissa Matlow as a campaign director at World Animal

Protection Canada. And not only did she highlight the problem for us, but she presented a solution. She told us, like, the solution could be off the coast of Nova Scotia, where if the government there could force the hand of a few people who own some seaside property, they could finalize a marine preserve where these animals could live out their lives. We're not there, right? We're stuck in this middle ground. And so to talk about where we are today and what we could be doing,

we're joined by former marine land whale trainer, Phil de Maris. Phil, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Phil, so give me, so I just gave you the lay of the land as I see it. Add to it if you can. Tell me things that we should know that we aren't talking about right now. Well, first off, the site in Nova Scotia for that proposal, Whale Sanctuary is not suitable, is not viable, and it's far, the logistical issues are far beyond

that of the lack of support from the landowners. Okay, wait, hold on it. So that's absolute news to me, and thank you so much for sharing your insight. Tell me why it's not suitable. They've got environmental woes. They've got logistical, structural woes, permitting woes with the government, especially in and around the environmental issues. the cost alone and what it would require to remediate the land that's been proposed.

It's just, it's not feasible. And I mean, I visited the site a number of years ago, bear in mind, I was one of the more vocal supporters, financial as well, you know, big supporter of this project. And it wasn't until, you know, you start scratching where it sniffs and realizing that there's more to this. So they've never been an actual option, frankly. That's interesting. Okay.

Yeah, it's a non-starter with the property owners. Okay. Beyond that, so then tell me, in an ideal world, if knowing what you know, what would you do, if you could wave a magic wand and all of a sudden these whales are somewhere else, where are they, you know, that treats them with respect and allows them to live out their lives in the best possible scenario? Well, there's a number of facilities in the U.S., which has at least some animal oversight, and, you know, they've got some, they've got rules, quality. of care, guidance, et cetera. And moreover, they can, they would adhere, or, you know, again, in a perfect world, they would adhere to the laws and the spirit of the law of 2019's ban, Canada's ban on whale captivity and breeding.

And so if they were to be seized, for instance, by the government and sent to the U.S., because the U.S. is not incentivized to pay for any of these beluga whales, as that's blown up in their faces dealing with marine land in the past, then I think there's a conversation if a coalition of facilities might engage with the government and getting them. Now, there's not enough space for 30, unfortunately. So that would leave us with some animals

in the void. I personally was in favor of having the animals move to China because the conditions are immediately better. So, Phil, are we talking about finding like, just finding

something that is markedly better than what they are currently living? Like, it's never going to be perfect. We can't give them the absolute best ideal situation. It's about making their lives just markedly better than they are now. More we wait for the perfect situation, the more whales will die. We've been waiting for decades for, you know, speaking of and looking at theories. And, you know, there's nothing out there, unfortunately. The only moves for these whales are sideways. I like to think sideways north in the sense that it's a little bit better. But that's really, that's the reality. And time is against them.

And, you know, by way of logistics, the facility in China wasn't ready to take these whales, and it wouldn't be for a number of years. So, you know, there's a lot of things that are not being discussed, or rather, there's elements of this that aren't transparent enough for the public to actually really get a sense of what the situation is. But, you know, I will stress this. Marine land claiming that they're going to be forced to euthanize the whales, this is largely bluster. It should be noted that marine land sits on 700 acres of prime Niagara Falls land. the owners have all passed away and there's a lawyer essentially you know he's there to feed

the family fund you know there's obviously still some heirs to it and there's a lot of money there so the concept of them being out of money is you know that yeah yeah just so for context for our listeners marine land has sent a letter to

to Premier Ford saying we want you to either pay us or seize the whales or we're going to have to kill them we're going to have to euthanize them Yeah, again, so bankrupting marine land on paper is a lot easier than actually bankrupting them in reality because, you know, they are, they have an estimated value of hundreds of millions of dollars in land there. So I think what you're seeing for out of marine land right now is more bluster and frustration than anything. They were looking to make a profit off those beluga whales, you know, not to say that the minister couldn't have sent some or that it wouldn't have resolved the issue largely if they had been sent away to other facilities. But, you know, it does leave marine land's animals currently in a void.

a timely one, one that needs to be addressed, one that's needed to be addressed for the longest time. But I stress that the situation they're in is not terribly different than the one they've been in for decades, because the reality is all of marine lands whales were going to die at marine land until people started to seemingly realize it. It wasn't until you started to actually process the thought of, oh, wait, those whales are just there waiting to die. Well, that's always been their reality. So that is the reality. Phil, I want to jump in before. I only have a little bit of time left. I want to talk to you so about your experiences there. Because as we talked about, people's eyes were opened. But, you know, you were a whale trainer there for a while?

When were you a whale trainer? At what point was, were your eyes open to what was happening? So I started in 2000. I lasted until 2012. I was a 22 year old kid when I went in there. And when you went in, what was your hope? What was your ambition? I wanted a job that wasn't boring. Frankly, it wasn't a lifelong dream of mine. I was sort of stuck in the Niagara region. I was sort of in a bind for what it is that I was going to do with my life. I had an audio engineering degree in a scuba license. And, you know, I thought, well, I'll just apply for this job that I found in the WAN ads. And was it fun for a while? Was it awesome? The people made it fun. The group made it fun. Of course, the animals, it had its highs and

lows. But the processing of what was their reality was always difficult because, you know, you would have assumed it was better conditions behind the scene. You would have assumed that Things would have been, it would have made more sense. And again, I was going in there as an ignorant person, so I just didn't know. And was there, was there a straw that broke your back? Yeah, the water disinfection unit breaking in and around the late 2010 into 2012 and Marine Land basically electing not to not to fix it because of, you know, they closed for eight months out of the year over the winter and it would open in the summer.

Well, over the course of that period of being closed over the winter of 2011 or 2012, deteriorate conditions got so bad. And the complacency of marine life actually doing anything led me to actually realize that I'm part of the problem if I don't actually speak up at this point because this is not being dealt with in-house. We've got to do something outside of the house.

So what would you like to see happen right now? Because, you know, I've got various stakeholders. There's some levers that the government can pull. We only have like in about 30 seconds. Just give me your lightning quick. What needs to happen in the next short little while just to mitigate this situation? make it better, and start getting us to a place where there's a solution in front of us?

Well, you know, there's going to require to be a coalition of sorts between activist groups, animal rights groups, and marine land, perhaps the government, et cetera. But I think that, you know, when marine land starts to threaten to kill animals, when marine land reject the idea that they've ever treated the animals poorly, when they're suing whistleblowers, et cetera, maybe they're not the best people to be in to be caring for those animals. So I do think that maybe the government should step in, seize the animals, animals and start to, you know, have a greater hand in what becomes of their fate rather than

leaving it to marine land. All right, Phil. Thank you so much for being here. And hopefully you can come back as this story progresses. We appreciate your insights and your candor. Anytime and always. Appreciate it. Survivor is chaos.

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