The Ben Mulroney Show - Where can Toronto find savings? Don't upgrade for legroom on Westjet!

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

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This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty. It's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control. and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed. You're allowed to say, I'm not okay right now. And trust me, I have been there.

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Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank.

Deposit it and wait for it to clear. Your pay really meant something. Payroll was incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor,

a national day to recognize payroll professionals? I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives? We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the next day

The payroll party to the nation. A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat.

The whole way? The whole way. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on Wednesday, October. First day of October, the weather is. gorgeous. I have a theory because I don't know if any of you remember. We didn't have a spring. It was so cold until all of a sudden it just became summertime. This to me is Mother Nature making amends for the fact that she gave us no warm weather in what April or May. So I thank you Mother Nature for the equilibrium that you have established here. We had to enjoy beautiful

weather through playoff baseball hopefully. I need to start with a problem I have with this city. Yesterday, all I wanted to do was go get my haircut. It had been way too long. It was getting harder to manage. Every day I wake up, I don't know what this is going to do. I have no idea what's going to happen. When I get out of the shower, the hair goes one way, one day.

It goes the other way. So the best way to do it is just keep it controlled with the haircut. So I had a plan to go to get my haircut. And as I'm driving down the street to go to the parking, before I go to my haircut, I get to the intersection where you can either take a left or a right. And the street's closed. I can't take a left towards the parking. Now, there was no announcement of this street closure a block ahead or two blocks earlier. Why doesn't the city ever let you know that you're going to be coming up against a closed street prior to getting to the closed street?

So I now have to go right. All right. Now I'm already late because I can't go to the parking. So now I'm already late. Now I have to find parking. I find parking on the street just a couple of blocks away from where I have to be. So I find a spot and I back into it. And I wanted to use the Green P app that I have on my phone.

But I just got a new phone. And everything transferred over seamlessly, including my banking app. I didn't have to do anything. I just, the banking app is there. But the green P app, no, no. This requires NSA level encryption. And for some reason, I tried to open it up. I can't do it.

Can't do it. Have to use some sort of double authentication. Don't know how that works. So I said, okay, I will use my credit card. Now, it's 2025. Do the parking meters in this city have a tap to pay? No, they don't. No, they don't.

You have to put your credit card into that slot, that recessed slot. So I do. And it gets in there and what happens? Doesn't come out. Doesn't come out. It's stuck in there. While I'm doing this, I am on the phone with the producers of the West Block because we have our meeting, our weekly meeting, prepping for the weekend show.

And I am trying to use my index finger and my thumb to pull this thing out with all the strength that I have. My fingers are still raw from the battle that I was waging with this machine from hell. People are walking past me laughing. I had to ask somebody if they had if they had tweezers or pliers like that's going to happen. Finally I had to get off the phone with my producers. I told them I'm going to explode. I can't I can't be on the phone with you right now. I'm so angry. I'm late for my my my haircut. And keep in mind, it doesn't take long to cut this. It takes like 20 minutes. So I only I only, I only, a walk off half an hour to get my hair cut. I'm 15 minutes late already. So I get off the phone

and I call the number. I call the number on the machine. And the guy, God love him, help me as best he could. He said, I'm going to send somebody over right now. We're going to get that. We're going to get that taken care of it. And I said, how long is that going to take? Is it 20 minutes? Is it 30 is an hour? I can't wait here. I'm already late. He said, well, what do you want me to do? I was like, I want you to just tell them not to give me a ticket because I'm trying to pay for. He says, well, you've called the wrong number for that. I said, So we're going to send somebody over now. I'm like, well, if you're going to send somebody over,

just tell them to take the card out and put it on my windshield or underneath my windshield. Oh, we can't do that. What if it gets stolen? I was like, I'm waving liability. Just put it there. He starts asking you why I'm screaming at him. I said, I'm not screaming at you. I'm trying to get you to appreciate.

I'm having a human moment here where, you know, none of this is in my control and my day is effectively ruined. Anyway, all that to say, I eventually. just, I put a sign on my car, say, do not give me a ticket. I go get my haircut and I come back. Somebody somehow got the card out, put it on my car underneath my windshield. I don't know if it was the city that did it. If they did, I say thank you. I didn't get a ticket. But explain to me why in 2025 we don't have tap to pay on green pea machines. Just make that make sense. Please, I want to know. I'm asking the city, come on. And why is the greenie? App so hard to use.

And why don't you let me know a block ahead that you have closed a road? Just these are my three questions for the city of Toronto today because none of that, all of this was avoidable. All of it was avoidable in 2025. All right. I got that. I got that off my chest. And I would like to ask the mayor to look into these things.

But I think she's focused on other more important things. Yeah. So I have to salsa, the guacamole and the, I. different vegetables, different salads, and then different cheese, and then you have the chicken, and then you have the shrimp, and then you have the beef, you have soft taco, and then corn taco, and this kind of taco, like, yeah, so I love having taco party. Everybody loves a taco party, and everybody loves a taco party, and I'm there with the mayor, and perhaps she would like to come to my next taco party, because I have a song,

I sing every time I have a taco party. White people Taco Night. We're getting taco shells from the grocery store and ground beef from the grocery store and shredded cheese from the grocery store. It's white people Taco Night, baby. That's one of my favorite songs on the Internet ever. Every time I have tacos, I sing that song to myself.

It's White People Taco Night. So, listen, lots of good news today that we're going to try to focus on good news. There's other news, obviously. But this is one of the first times in a long time that when the first time in a long time that the Blue Jays make the playoffs. But they get a buy, right? They get a buy in the first round. And so what do they do?

What are they going to do? How do they stay fresh? How do they stay sharp? Well, they're doing something I've never seen before. They're doing intrasquad games. So they're playing against each other. They're playing against themselves. And it's happening at Rogers,

uh, Rogers, uh, Rogers Stadium. Center. Oh, God, so many names. Stanor Arena. Skydome. And, um, Wednesday and Thursday, 4 p.m. The tickets are 10 bucks.

They're inviting fans to come in. 10 bucks. Some of the concession stands are going to be open. And the games are between four and five innings. This is like a perfect way to enjoy an afternoon in this city, given the fact that the weather is going to be great. I commend them. This is, what a wonderful thing.

to get my friend Glenn to come with me, but he's decided to be a good dad and he's taking his kids to Universal Studios. I know. Like, come on, man. Drop the kids. Drop the kids. Drop the kids. Drop the kids. Forget the kids. Forget Universal. Go forget going down to Florida. Come to a game with me. Anyway, so that's, I really think this is just a wonderful bonus. It's bonus baseball. And you get to cheer for both sides, right? Because there's no, there's no losing here. I think that's a wonderful thing. And finally, I think we want to end on what happens when a Blue Jay and a horse meet in a bar. I guess is that how it would go? In a bar? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm making it up. So, yeah, so the Toronto Police

Service has a horse named Blue Jay, right? And they introduced, but some of us knew about it before, but for those who didn't, they introduced it on social media. Let's, let's, let's, let's be introduced to Blue Jay by the TPS. Hey George, we're looking for a ride down, Bremner. We just might have the horse for you. So if the Toronto Blue Jays can bring the World Series back to Toronto, this Blue Jay just might give you that ride. Looking forward to October baseball.

Go, Jay's goal. Yeah, so of course, they want George Springer to ride the horse, because I think he said something about that once, right? No, just after they won on Sunday, he was saying, okay, time to get on the horse and he wanted to ride the horse down the street. Yeah. Which is similar to what an old Yankee Wade Boggs did years ago and he rode a horse around the stadium after they won the World Series.

So he wants to do the same. Shame on you. Wade Boggs will forever be a red sock. I know. Shame on you for saying that. Wade Boggs is a red sock now and forever just because he won once with the Yankees. I think he's more of a Tampa Big Ray. All right, we're going to take a quick break here. But Olivia Chow says she'll raise taxes if the feds don't pay for asylum shelter hotels.

But why is that the only option? We're going to dig into the city's books next. We can either stop sheltering refugees claimants, leave them on the street, which will make homelessness worse, reversing the progress we made on reducing the number of encampments. Or Torontoians will have to pay for it through their property taxes. Neither is fair. This is the Ben Mulroney Show.

Welcome back to the show. Oh, and obviously that is the mayor of this city, sort of explaining the paradigm as she sees it. We have winter approaching, cold weather approaching. We have asylum seekers and refugees and a growing homelessness problem in this city. And we have a federal government who allowed for and welcomed these homeless, these asylum seekers into the country and have decided in their infinite wisdom that they are going to stop. helping a city like Toronto deal with this problem that they essentially created. And the way Olivia Chow sees it, there's only one way to, it's either the feds pay for it or

the taxpayer pays for it. She seems to forget that when she says the feds, she's talking about the taxpayer. There's only one taxpayer, you and me. And yesterday on this show, I mused sort of casually that one of my issues with Olivia Chow, while I take her point, this is a problem of, that was. created by the feds you know there is a lot of spending that happens at the at the municipal level that maybe shouldn't happen and if we could get that under control maybe we'd be able to afford things like this i'd have done no research into it but that's a good thing because our next

guest has done that research please welcome to the show uh from post media joe warmington joe thanks so much for being here yeah you're really great to be with you i heard the show yesterday with uh you know yourself and anthony fury talking about some of this stuff i'd talk to anthony right before that, he indicated that you were on this as well. And I thought it was an important point to make is that when you're going to go back to the taxpayers one more time, as they've done, to kind of cover for the sins of all these different politicians and the different things that they've done to us, you know, let's look internal a little bit and see what we can cut first. And I think that your show covered that. And I certainly did in the column in the Toronto Sun

today. Yeah. And I appreciate that. We're going to get into that. I think fundamentally, like we got a level set. If our mayor is saying that these are the only options, that either the feds, we do nothing, we stop housing these people, which I do not like. I think a city like Toronto, I think anybody with a beating heart should want to make sure that nobody is on the streets. So we either turn our backs on these people, which I am against, or the feds give us money, or she comes and gets more money from you and me, the taxpayers of Toronto. If she's saying that, in good faith, I want to believe that every other avenue has been exhausted. And you are here to say that is not the case. No, I mean, you know, right off the bat,

there's so many things that jump out. And if you're listening now, feel free to send in your own list. I mean, we've seen so much waste. But, you know, the one that I, that jumped out of me was their $33,000 a year increase to the counselors over like just 24, 25 of them. So it's a lot of money. You know, they didn't offer to say, look, we've got to sort of tighten her own belt. Let's start with us. We'll take a pay cut. Nobody's got an increase like they received in the last 10 or 15 years. People are struggling. I mean, you know, you know yourself raising a family. It is not an easy thing to do. And, you know, it was insulting for her to suggest that. You know, we've also got this thing with this World Cup that's coming up. And every level of

government is in on that. It's going to end up being a billion dollars, I'm sure, to the Canadian taxpayers. Yes, it'll be five exciting football games with some of the best players in the world and all that stuff. But, you know, it would be nice to go on a cruise or a trip somewhere, but if you can't afford to go, you can't go. Yeah. And so, you know, I don't understand this thing, well, let's just throw, you'll borrow more money and then throw it at the taxpayers. I can't believe the taxpayers don't fight back. You know, in Toronto, and It's not any different in the other cities in the GTA, not quite as bad, but it's, you know, it's also very big annual increases in the municipal levy.

But here in Toronto, in the last three years, and Mayor Tori was the first budget, and then the last couple were Mayor Chow, were up over 25% if she does this 2%. It's already at 23.5% in increases. So 23 and a half more percent for your taxes really is two years, but over three fiscal years. Yeah. And you're noticing it. And I know you notice it. I know Mike Drolea notices it, your producer and all your audience notices it.

And I know I do. I'm raising a family too. And it's out of control. Well, and what it is, Joe, what we've noticed is, you know, for the past few years, as these property taxes have gone up, we've said, okay, you're taking more of our money, but we're not seeing a commensurate rise in services. And then it's become painfully clear. It's because of issues like this one. that we have, all of a sudden we have these new burdens, these new costs that, you know, 10 years ago did not exist at the level that they do.

And so the, you know, the, the, the, the, the Tarantonian, the average Toronto taxpayer is being asked to shoulder a burden that, that did not, was not born here, but we are now responsible for it. And that's why you're seeing people taking matters into their own hands. I mean, they cut down the, the, the, the, the speed. cameras every time they put it up, they cut it down. I mean, you know, obviously that's illegal activity. We don't like that. But you can see why people are doing it. People are starting to carry baseball bats. Even Councilor Brad Bradford has talked about that. The services are down.

I had to call them in with Daryl Monaghan, a former Toronto police officer who caught a guy taking $250 worth of the meat out of the Loblaws. It was the second time he allegedly had done that day, followed the guy. I'm not recommended anyone do that. The police I feel sorry for because they try their best. I mean, they're out there. You know that. And every day they make arrests and, of course, just throw it out. If it's considered a minor arrest, LCBO theft or whatever, but it's not minor because

all of that bill comes back and it's thrown on to, throwing on to the taxpayer. So, you know, Joe, I want to talk about, like, where we could get this money, right? Like, let's say it's $108 million, I think that was the number. We're in the city budget, could we find the most amount of money immediately to free up to then help with this hole that we're in? Well, it's a good question. I mean, I think the, you know, I think there's like $30 million in so many different files and there's some of these bigger ones. But I think it should be a committee that put together. I mean, you kind of caught me off guard with what specific one.

Well, no, but there's that sanctuary city thing that Anthony Furious. Okay, let's talk about the Sanctuary City. I mean, if that's where you were heading with it. You know, that was designated, I think, in 2013, well-intentioned. But what it's done is created a perennial, like, you know, ongoing street culture where it's really unsafe. People invest a lot of money in their businesses, and there's so many drugs and that kind of stuff.

But I think it comes down to the drugs, the fentanyl and all that stuff. It's so lethal and potent. The Sanctuary City designation would be nice to go because a lot of people just to abuse the system, the command, we don't know who they are, they don't know where they came from, and you're not allowed to say anything. And, you know, you're not allowed to deport people. I mean, there's people that don't belong here that aren't Canadian, that commit crimes, and they stay in the system, and then eventually they're released, and obviously right away, sometimes on bail. And, you know, you're not allowed to say, look, you're from wherever, and send

them back. Americans are starting to do that, and it's upsetting people. So I think that's it. And, of course, this whole thing with the Palestinian pro-Hamas crowd, I mean, they've really tied up the streets for two years. Yeah. And, you know, and all the anti-Semitism and all the things that go with it. And it's become, you know, they beat such a loud drum that you're afraid to deal with it. And the police, I mean, you know, what do they do? They sort of try to be in the middle of it and all that kind of stuff. Maybe it's time to not be in the middle of it and say, look, we're not going to tolerate it.

We'd take real leadership to do that. And it's hard to find that. Well, I want to thank you very much. People can find your article at the Toronto Sun.com. It's how to avoid a 2% tax hike. Joe Warmington has a few suggestions. We appreciate your time today, my friend. Thank you so much.

Great to be with you, Ben. All the best. Have a great rest of the week. Thanks so much. And look, one other way that we could find this money, this is from casino.ca. I don't know if anyone knows this, but the information that we've discovered is that there are so many

unclaimed prizes in in in uh in uh in the in the casinos in this province and over 10 years uh nearly a quarter billion dollars have been left unclaimed now I know that that's a provincial thing but perhaps Olivia Chow can talk to Doug Ford about possibly freeing up some of that money that has gone unclaimed it's just a small um suggestion on my part all right the lottery winnings 236 million in Ontario our next

story is going to be a contentious one, what WestJet is doing about reclining seats. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show on Wednesday, October 1st. All right. When we travel in the air, everything is heightened. We are closer together. We get on each other's nervous.

in ways that we don't typically do on the ground. And we have to be more cognizant of sharing space in a way that we don't have to when we are free to roam the world. And, well, let's, here, listen, the reclining of seats on planes has forever been a question, to recline or not to recline. And some people, some people take it very, very personally. Let's listen to one example of this problem with shared space.

No, you did not. Yes, I did. You've been kicking my chair. You leaned your chair back. The chair's lean back for comfort. Not that far. Man, yes, as far as it goes, that's the farther I put it. Well, you know what?

I need leg room. I'm giving you that, but the chair goes back. Legroom! Yeah, and that, listen, that happens all the time. I want to hear from you at 416870-6400 or 1-3-2-25 talk because WestJet is trying to change that paradigm. I'm currently all of the seats on their 737-8 maxes and the other aircrafts are economy fair and the vast majority can recline. But under their new design, the cabin will include a new premium section in the front with 12 seats that have ergonomically contoured seat cushions, reclining seatbacks and a large headrest with four-way adjustment capability.

And all the rest of the seats on the plane will not recline. And I got a producer here who thinks that that's how it should be. It should be. I believe that if a seat can recline, you have the right to recline. And my 6'5 producer wants his height to be my problem. I disagree with that. I also look at what WestJet has done as a cash grab.

They've taken away something that we used to get for free, i.e. reclining a seat, and they're turning it into a premium add-on that you can pay for. Do you know what's not my problem? When people can't reach things on the top shelf of the grocery store. Okay, we're not talking about it. that man we are talking about reclining seats all you young kings and queens i help you guys out with reaching for things all the time i'm six two dude i don't need your help what i do need is to rest on a

plane if it's a long flight and i need to recline i can fall asleep on pretty much any flight and the problem is when i'm sitting upright i have to catch myself from because i fall asleep and my neck falls forward and i just need a little bit of a of a recline so that my neck doesn't fall fall forward. But this nonsense that because a seat, because the person behind me doesn't want me to recline, I shouldn't be able to recline. No, no. If the seat does it, that's my right. That's how I see it. And I'd love to hear from you, 416-870-6400. I see this as the nickel and diming of air travel. It's the nickel and diming of air travel. And look, if I've got somebody behind me who doesn't want me to recline, then it should be incumbent upon that person to be moved to a seat

behind somebody who isn't going to recline. If I have a seat that reclines, I deserve to recline. And if you have a problem with that, that's a you problem, not a me problem. We just got a call from Sandra who said, you know, when you recline your seat, you can still stretch your legs out. And I said to her, actually, you can't because it's your knees don't bend in a certain way. And she goes, oh, I didn't realize that. Well, I guess you're right.

And then she went away. No. I educated her on the fact that you educated her. Again, your issue is not my issue. I remember what it was like to be, not your height, but I remember what it was like to be short, but people who are short don't know what it's like to be tall. Again, I take that you're tall.

You're not me. I'm sitting in my seat. You are sitting in yours. And if you want to sit behind somebody who isn't reclining, ask to be moved. ask to sit behind somebody who isn't reclining. But I'm sorry. And I'm a fairly considerate person.

When it's time to eat, I will move my seat back up. And I most of the time don't recline all the way, especially if I know the seats behind me are small. But I am going to recline a little bit because you know what? It reclines. It reclines. And I get that we're living shoulder to shoulder and back to back and knees to back. But if you have a problem with me reclining, ask to move and sit behind somebody who

will not recline. But beyond that, I want to ask you, what do you make of this with WestJet? Because they are claiming that this is, they are trying to respond to what people want. Let's ask Brad. Brad, welcome to the show. What say you on this matter? Thanks, Ben. I totally agree with you. Thank you. And yeah, no, because it's common sense. They what a wild thing. I wish we live in a world where we could take the criers, the whiners, and say, stuff. Seats are going to decline. If you don't like it, don't fly. Well, yeah, I struggle to understand the justification. Like, I get that it's uncomfortable

for you, but there is somebody else on the plane that isn't going to recline. Sit behind them. Ask to be moved. But being offended that I am using the chair as intended is nonsense. I'm not playing that game. If the seat reclines, I have the right to recline. And if you have a problem with that, find somewhere else to sit. Thank you very much, my friend. Adam, you're up. Listen, Ben, if you've got a problem with people putting their seat back, pay for a seat, pay for business, pay for premium economy, pay for first class. Yeah. As long as you're in the back of the plane or you're in the, you know, the cheaper seats, that's what you get.

Yeah. This is the world that these airlines have set up for us. They're the ones who've been taking your space away. It has nothing to do with me. I paid for my seat, the seat reclines, I'm going to recline. And if WestJet is going to pull this, I mean, listen, it all depends on what the, what the, what the, the, the pitch of the, of this, these new seats are. Because I don't necessarily, especially on, on short haul flights, I don't need to recline that much. I just need enough so that if I, if I do fall asleep, my neck doesn't fall forward. I'm pretty, I'm pretty basic about that sort of thing.

So I would have to... Air Canada will be next to follow, along with Porter, along with every airline in Canada and the U.S. Well, I think it's going to depend on how successful this is, because if they don't see an uptick in people using their flights and if more people flocked Air Canada into Porter, maybe they'll have to reverse course on this. Hey, thank you for the call. Mani, what say you? Hey, Ben. Hey, recline or not to recline? Oh, recline 100%. But, listen, they built the planes with the option to recline, so some guy, six-foot-six behind me can't take that option away from me.

You know, like, I was just mentioning to yours a screener there, if he goes and rent the car and he's 6-6, he's not going to rent a smart car. He's going to rent something, you know, that's good enough for him to be comfortable. Exactly. If I go into, like, WestJet wants to build these planes without the recliner option, and I know that going into it, I'm okay with that. Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

Yeah, and that's true. Mandy, thank you very much. And look, here's what I would do if my producer were being unruly behind me, upset that I was exercising my right to recline my seat. If he were to do that, I would not get into a fight with him. In fact, I wouldn't even engage with him. I would press the call button, and the flight attendant would come up, and the flight attendants are paid to do a number of things.

And one of those things is to deal with issues between passengers. And I would use that flight attendant as a middle person. And I would say, I have a person behind me who has a problem with me reclining. If that's the case, please find them somewhere else to sit. But I'm tired. I need to rest. I have a business meeting when I land. And I intend to sleep.

And so if they have a problem, please find somewhere else for them to sit. But under no circumstances, I'm not, am I not reclining my seat? And I would not even engage with Mike drollay and his nonsense behind me. And that's how I see it. Frank, are you for or against reclining? I'm 100% against reclining. I think that West Sheds, their plan to do this in the future is a smart idea. I think they're actually reducing the incidence of conflict on planes.

I'm six foot two. And sadly, I have to put up a little inconvenience or a little bit of uncomfortableness. Then so be it. I just want to put my headphones on and not interact with someone behind me or in front of me. So the best way to do that, don't recline. And look, maybe this is what they're doing. Maybe they want to be that not reclining airline. So if you want to be able to recline, you go on Air Canada.

And if you don't want to recline, you go on WestJet. Maybe this is a market differentiator. And if that's the case, you're probably right. You know, if more people want to live in a world where they don't recline, you know what you're getting when you buy a WestJet ticket. Maybe that's the way to go, having one airline that reclines and one that doesn't. And I know where I'm going to park my money. I'm going to go where I can actually have a little bit of an option every now and then.

Hey, thanks so much for the call. Oh, we're done. Thank you everybody for calling in. I appreciate it. All right, when we come back, up next, it's been a bumpy road to get to this point, but Barry Averich's documentary that won at Tiff is said to be released in theaters.

We're going to catch up with him next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show, and let's give you a recap of one of the wildest roller coasters of any film release that I've seen in a very long time, you could argue that the story of the getting this movie scene was as dramatic or on par with the subject matter in the film. So Canadian producer and director Barry Averich and his team put together what is a thrilling and heart-wrenching story of a father trying to save his family. in the aftermath of October 7th.

And he received a spot, coveted spot at the Toronto International Film Festival. Barry, of course, is well-known and well-respected film producer and director here in Canada. So how fitting was it that he would receive a spot to premiere his film in his hometown

at the Toronto International Film Festival? And for whatever reasons, the film festival balked and asked to pull the movie out and rescinded that invitation that garnered worldwide attention. It's the Barbara Streisand effect. And more people heard about this movie because of that than any successful PR push could have given them. They ended up getting back into the festival, winning the People's Choice Award.

And now finally the film is going to be in theaters. I'm going to see the movie on Friday, by the way. And so now I'm joined by the director. Barry Averts, as well as producer Mark Selby, of The Road Between Us, premiering in theaters shortly. Gentlemen, welcome and congratulations. Thank you, Ben. Great to be back.

Good morning, Ben. Okay, so let's talk about this. Like, getting the movie to premiere at TIF was one thing. And then winning the People's Choice Award, talk to me about that because I haven't talked to you since then. Well, I was finally sitting at my office on a Sunday morning after that, harrowing experience of getting the film back into TIF and having that great moment of Mark and I walking on the stage of Roy Thompson Hall, 1,800 people standing ovation before they'd even seen the film. Amazing. So I'm finally back in my office Sunday morning to dig through hundreds of emails and get some work done. And Cameron Bailey, the CEO of Tiff calls at 845 in the morning and says, I've got some news for you. You've won the People's Choice Award. Will you be attending a ceremony? When's that? 10 a.m. Yes, we will be there.

Called Mark, woke him up or close to it and said, Mark, I'll be picking you up in 20 minutes. We've won the People's Choice Award. And off we went down to the TIF's headquarters to accept the award, which was at the end of a journey, incredibly validating, Ben, because the people chose it. Not a jury, not TIF administration, the people. So it was great. And Mark, how does the people's choice? award work. I think a lot of people are wondering, do you have to have seen the film in order to vote? Yes. Actually, it's a great question, Ben. You know, a lot of people were

trying to be helpful in messaging me saying, I want to vote for your film. And I said, I appreciate that, but it's not going to count. All the tickets through TIF are through Ticket master. They know who attends. And, you know, while I appreciate, you know, communities rallying around the film, if a film gets 10,000 votes, but only 1,800 people see it, everyone knows something is up. Right. Tiff knows this. And so they have a very fair way of doing it.

It's actually based on percentages. And this way, a film that plays in a smaller venue has just as much of a chance of winning the People's Choice Award as a film that's a larger. And that's what I was going to ask, because you guys only had one screening. We only had the one screening at Roy Thompson Hall. But, you know, as did another documentary, the John Candy film, which comes out later this month. They were at Roy Thompson Hall, but they had subsequent screenings.

Therefore, more people had the opportunity to vote for it. And that's why Tiff works on this percentage system. I don't really know the full details of it, but that's part of what makes the whole experience is Barry says validating and vindicating after the struggles. They do check the IP address and how people are voted. So, I mean, I got emails, as did Mark, from hundreds and hundreds of people from around the world saying, I voted, I helped. And it's like, we voted.

But ultimately, it was the people that saw the film. So it was great. It was a great feeling. Well, as I said, I'm going to go see it on Friday. I'm going to give my review of it on Monday when I come in. And Barry, you told me when you came. into studio prior to the screening at Tiff that, you know, it is, it is not a political movie. It's a story of a father's love for his family. And is that the reaction that you got from

the people in the audience? Did you put forth a movie that you, did you get the reaction you hoped you would get? I did. It was so emotional. I mean, you know, my father, who was not the film of business, always said, watch the audience, not the film. And, and Mark And I sat there through the film, you know, after seeing it probably 80 times, watching the audience and watching them react and, you know, a standing, a sustained standing ovation for five or six minutes or something like that after. And people were emotional and weeping. And, oh, it's what we, it's what we wanted. We know that there'll be people that, that write, you know, about what about the politics? And, you know, there was a review recently that said, you know, so much left unsaid about October 7th. It wasn't a film about October 7th. It was a Noam T. Bonn and his family, and you're a father. You get it. What would you do for your family if you got that same text message?

Well, I saw the trailer and, you know, there's a moment in the trailer when Noah gets into his, he gets into his car and he's got his sidearm with him and he puts it in the in the cup holder. And I thought that that's what a dad would do in that moment. If he could, if I were, if I were in that position, I don't know that I would do what he did as, as a trained soldier and, uh, but I, I do hope I would do that. I really do. And I, you know, you would do everything that you could. Everything that I could. And I cannot, I can't, I can't, I can't wait to see it, but I have to ask. So, you know, the road between us. What's the road ahead of you for the road between us? Because, you know, there is, there are award seasons coming. And if you win the people's choice award, maybe you think to yourself, Could this film make it onto the big awards circuit in the United States? Well, we're going to try. It's, you know, it's a complicated process. The film, you know, it would be easier if the film, I mean, we're, you know, we're seeking a streamer to buy it in the United States.

And that certainly helps the voters who want to support streamers that buy their films, the Academy, and others. And so we're going to certainly try. We will enter all those big award ceremonies and we'll work hard. It takes a lot of time, a lot of money to get there. But we're going to certainly try. But, you know, other awards would be nice. Yeah.

But ultimately, the road ahead is making sure that whether you're Jewish or not Jewish, if you care about your family, if you care about people, you see this film. So we're going to try to have the largest experience for people to go to the theater and see it and send a message that, you know, you want to see this film. And I will say, Ben, too, that, you know, this release. this week qualifies us for these awards. So we're across Canada and in the United States, and people can go to The Road Between Us.com.

No WWW in front, just The Road Between Us.com. They can find out where it's playing in their local communities, and I hope they tell their friends and family to go see it. It is not for one community. It's for everybody. Mark, I got to ask, as a producer, I assume you've worked on a number of films. And the work of a producer, I used to assume, ended once the film was in the can.

But I have to assume you guys have been working overtime even after the film was finished. Well, you'd be right. I mean, Barry and I are essentially a two-person operation here. We are part and very much involved in all stages and aspects of development, pre-production, production, and everything that comes after that. So, you know, we had a film that premiered at Hot Docs last year, the Hot Docs Festival in Toronto called Born Hungry, and it's still making the festival rounds. It's opening in India later this month. So even though that film premiered 18 months ago, we are still actively involved in getting it out to the world.

So, no, once, you know, you make a film and it still lives with you for a long time. And, you know, I know that you guys are going to keep making stories that are important to you. But a humble suggestion, maybe as a cleansing tonic, you just do a simple wrong. Com next. I just throw that at you. Hey, guys, thank you so much. Thank you. That is the plan. Oh, good. Good. All right. Barry Averich, Mark Selby, producers and director of the road between us in theaters very shortly. As I said, I'm going to see it on Friday. Congratulations to the both of you. So far, the story of this film is exactly what I had hoped it would be. I wish you both a great success. Thanks, Ben.

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