The Ben Mulroney Show - Why has the vaccination of Measles suddenly gotten so polarizing?

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Why has the vaccination of Measles suddenly gotten so polarizing? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Happy Thursday to everybody listening on CFPL in London on 640 Toronto. You might be listening on the iHeartRadio app, or as you know, we like to take parts of the show, package them up and throw them up on all the podcast platforms that you enjoy. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music. Wherever you find us, we say thank you and welcome to this Thursday. And yes, indeed, I am in Washington. I'm here for personal reasons, but also professional. I wanted to come down here and take advantage of the fact that I'm going to

spend a few days with a lot of Americans, a lot of politicians, a lot of Washingtonians who have been close to the action on all of these tariffs. And the goal is going to be to strike up relationships with them. And hopefully, convince them that where they need to be is the Ben Mulroney show. So that we can ask them in the over the course of the next few days, weeks, months, and indeed years to give us the lay of the land from Washington. I think the more you're talking, the more you're winning. And I want to talk with as many Americans as

possible, so that our listeners can understand best what the perspective is from here and why these things are happening. Now, that's a good decision that I've made. I'm sticking to that. A bad decision that I made was to maybe get my winter tires taken off my car a little bit early. I don't think it's early to have done it at the beginning of April, living in Toronto. I don't I know a number of people who opened their pools a few weeks ago. So I don't think I'm crazy. I think what we witnessed yesterday, not necessarily an aberration, but certainly not a hard and fast rule that should dictate that should force

me to consider putting my getting my winter tires off in May. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. If I lived in Montreal, sure Quebec City, absolutely. Two places I have lived. There's no way I was going to do that here. Despite that it was a it was tricky on the roads yesterday. I hope everybody got home safe at the end of the day I mean whiteout conditions in April that was something to see and Then of course that made it really hard to get to the airport and even harder to get out yesterday

But once I did I found myself down here, and I am now in a beautiful studio And we've got a great show for you today, a really great show. At the end of today's show, we're gonna talk to two people who know more about the requirements of being a leader in this country than most Jason Kenney, the former premier of Alberta, as well as a former cabinet minister under Stephen Harper.

We also have a conversation with Jean Cher, the former premier of Quebec, he was also a cabinet minister and he was the he was also the federal leader of the progressive Progressive Conservative Party. So we're going to have two great conversations with them to close out the Ben Mulroney show today. So while I was at the airport yesterday, I like so many people were glued to either television or their social show today. So while I was at the airport yesterday, I like so many people were glued to either television or their social media

waiting for Donald Trump's Liberation Day to be explained to the world because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to all of us on the receiving end of it. And we were treated to pageantry that you only get from Donald Trump, showing us graphs and charts and a list, a two page list on giant Bristol boards of all the countries that have abused of the United States and the consequences that were going to come from that abuse. And I don't know if you're like me, but I had a screenshot of those pieces of paper, of those big Bristol boards, and I was zooming in to see where Canada was.

And Canada was not on the list. And so if you were on social media, you were subjected to everyone's immediate hot takes. Canada dodged a bullet. Everything's fine. This is the greatest day ever. And or you heard, let's not forget, the automotive industry is still hit. Let's not forget the steel and aluminum workers. Let's not forget that all of this happened because Donald Trump made up a crisis about fentanyl and usurp the power of Congress to apply tariffs in an emergency situation. And there is no emergency. And the reason we know there's no emergency is because Tulsi Gabbard of the National Security Agency went by I believe, gave her report to Congress on all

the crises in the world, including fentanyl in Canada was not mentioned in the fentanyl crisis. So as part of Mark Carney and the government's plan to fight these tariffs, I know that there is a challenge, a legal challenge to the very principle of these tariffs. And I do hope that that is brought up in in their challenge. Mark Carney did stand in front of cameras yesterday and he gave us his take on day one of liberation day. Let's listen to his assessment on what what Donald Trump has preserved in our relationship. President Trump has just announced a series of measures

that are going to fundamentally change the international trading system. Now in doing so, he has preserved a number of important elements of our relationship, the commercial relationship between Canada and the United States. But the fentanyl tariffs still remain in place, as do the tariffs for steel and aluminum. As of this evening, the tariffs on automobiles will enter into force, and the US has signaled that there will be additional tariffs

in so-called strategic sectors, pharmaceuticals, lumber, and semiconductors. He can never get to the semiconductors. I think every time he's about to say it, he remembers his little foot in mouth problem where he said that we provide Americans with the vast majority of their semiconductors. I think every time he's about to say it, he remembers his little foot in mouth problem where he said that we provide Americans with the vast majority of their semiconductors. I think he's allergic to that word now. He went on to talk about the ways that we as Canadians will fight. We're going to fight these tariffs with countermeasures. We are going to protect our workers and we are going to build the strongest

con in the G7. In a crisis, it's important to come together and it's essential to act with purpose and with force and that's what we will do. That's great and I think every Canadian wants this government and the next one whoever leads that government to be as successful as possible fighting these tariffs but we're in the middle of an election campaign with a prime minister who is a relative unknown and saying one thing one day and something different another it would be really nice if when he stood in front of cameras, for somebody who attacks Pierre Poliev on slogans, like show me one thing he said in that last clip that wasn't a slogan. Every word was a slogan. None of it means anything. Canadians deserve to know what you're going to do and I get that some

of it happens behind closed doors but for the love of God we need to know who you are. We need to know what you stand for. When you say you're gonna fight with what tools that will give us a sense of how you see the Canadian government and how you see your role and how you think you can best fight for Canadian interest. Anything else is unhelpful. And for the love of God, just let us in a little bit. I know that the Liberal Party has bubble-wrapped you like a piece of china on moving day, but for the love of God, just crack the door a little bit so we can see who you are.

Anything else is just, it's not enough and it makes me anxious. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and now it's time to take your calls. I am indeed in Washington, but that doesn't mean that my heart and my mind have left Canada. And that's, we're gonna be talking about,

I think a really important story right now. So give me a call, 416-870-66400 or 1-888-225-TALK. If you've got kids in the public school system, if you've got kids in any school system, then you send them out there and you hope to God they come home healthy, right? That's the job of every parent. Please don't come home with something. I don't want to have to deal with it and take a day off of work tomorrow. But it's our lot in life. It's what you do when you throw your kids with the weather that we have and the ages that they're at, when you throw them into a petri dish with other kids, so they're gonna come home with a runny nose or a cough,

maybe a rash every now and then. It's just what happens. But there are certain things that should be unacceptable. I do not want to send my kid to school and have them exposed to measles. It's 2025. And I don't want them exposed to measles. Call me crazy. But there's an Ontario Public Health Unit that has ordered the suspension of over 1600 elementary school students for out of date vaccination cards.

So this in Waterloo, it's Waterloo public health. And a whole bunch of kids have out of date vaccinations. And there is a law prohibiting this. The immunization of school pupils, the immunization of school pupils act rather requires students to get vaccinated against all sorts of things diphtheria tetanus polio polio, you know, call me crazy. But you know, we should be we thought we got rid of it. And it's because of this measles

mumps rubella pertussis and a number of other ones. And 1600 kids don't have the requisite immunization. So they were sent home. And look, I know that we're living in a world where the COVID pandemic made certain people, I don't know, reticent, cynical of vaccines. But if you believe, like, I'll give you the point. I'll concede it for the sake of this argument, foricent, cynical vaccines. But if you believe, like I'll give you the point, I'll concede it for the sake of this argument, for the sake of this conversation.

If you're one of these people who says it was rushed, the vaccines were rushed, and they weren't properly vetted, how could we come up with something that quickly and make sure that it was okay? I'll give you that. That is not this. If the pandemic made you cynical and weary of all vaccines, then you should be weary of anything

that the government has its fingers and toes on and hands in. And that includes the public school system. So my recommendation to you is if you are weary of the measles vaccine, then you should also be weary of the public school system. And I urge you to have the courage of your convictions and pull your kid who is a hotbed of disease

out of the system and teach them from home, homeschool them. That's the most responsible thing you can do. And the most responsible thing in keeping with your values. But if you think that it's okay, that your outrage over vaccines allows you to expose my kid to measles and polio, you got another thing coming. So for me, there's a line in the sand. Like, this is my kids, man. So I'm not messing around. I think Public Health Ontario did the right thing here.

And don't forget, measles are so contagious that one infected person can spread it to 16 others. Public Health Ontario says that there have been 572 cases since an outbreak began in October. Of those, 42 people required hospitalization, two needed to be in intensive care, and 36 were children, most of them unsurprisingly, unvaccinated. So give us a call at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225. Talk. I don't think that I'm being overly harsh here. This is the health of kids. This is the health of families, is the health of communities. And if you are so concerned with the vaccine for measles, then you should do the responsible thing. You shouldn't trust, you shouldn't trust anything the government does. And that includes sending your kids to public school. So take them out, take them home, teach them on a farm, teach them in the country. I don't care. But keep them away from the kids who are playing by the rules. Keep them away from the kids whose parents are trusting a vaccine that's been around forever. And let's not forget that it's the polio vaccine

that effectively eradicated polio from our lives was 100 years ago. So it works. It's been tested, it's been tried. It's safe. It's well within the margin of error, whatever you want to call it, that requires people to feel comfortable giving their kid that vaccine. And if you're not comfortable with that, then you shouldn't be comfortable with a whole lot

that the government does. Let's see we've got cam on the line cam welcome to the show. I fully agree with you. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, we have to get them out of school get them properly vaccinated and they stay home until they do. Yeah, and if they don't if the parents don't want to get them vaccinated, I suppose that's the right of the parent, but have the courage of your convictions. Follow the train to its logical conclusion. If you don't trust that the authorities and the powers that be and the systems that we have in place are designed to keep you safe, then you should believe that the school system is also all bunk too. But thank you very much for your call, Cam. Let's welcome Jen to system is also all bunk too. But thank you very much for

your call cam. Let's welcome Jen to the Ben Mulroney show. Jen, thanks so much for calling in. No problem, Ben. How are you? I'm well, thank you. Good. I just am thinking if these measles vaccines work, then what's your worry? What's your concern? You should have no problem putting your child in a school with a child that's not vaccinated because the risk is only on the vaccinated child, not the or on the unvaccinated child, not the vaccinated child. If you're vaccinated, you have no worries.

Even though we have a law that says everyone should be vaccinated, a parent who decides they want to flout the law, that's okay, because everybody else is vaccinated. Why is it on me to protect your kid? Why is it on me? It's not your kid is fine. Your kids vaccinated your kids fine if I want to put my kid at risk and not vaccinate them that's on me. But you have nothing to worry about your own kids if the vaccine is there. Oh, I doubt that very much. I'm sure I could get an expert in here who would say that these are positive reinforcing elements. That if my kids vaccinate and your kids vaccinate, they have a higher chance of not getting it. A vaccine is never 100% effective, ever. So the more unvaccinated kids that are in there, if I've got one vaccinated kid and 100 unvaccinated kids, the chance that the vaccinated kid gets the measles goes up exponentially, exponentially. And I don't have to be an expert to know that.

That's a fact. So again, this is parents, that's even worse, Jen, if the parents are like, oh, I just don't wanna vaccinate my kid, but they'll be okay because everybody else is vaccinated. No, no,'s even worse, Jen. If the parents are like, oh, I just don't want to vaccinate my kid, but they'll be okay because everybody else is vaccinated. No, no, no, no, no. It is not my job to keep your kids safe. We're all in this together. And that is a slogan I believe in in this case. Absolutely not. That's the height of parental irresponsibility. And I would actually suggest that there should be penalties associated with that kind of logic. That's nonsense.

But thank you very much for bringing it up. That got my goose. Steve, welcome to the show. Are you serious? You believe Dr. Fauci and Bill Gates still? I feel sorry for you. No, no, no. Steve, Steve, Steve, if you listen to the beginning, if you listened to the beginning of what I said, I conceded, I said for the purpose of this argument, I am willing to concede that people are cynical of the vaccines that were created during the pandemic. This is not that Anthony Fauci and Bill Clever, whoever had nothing to do with the measles vaccine to suggest otherwise. I can't help you, man. I can't have a conversation with you.

The polio vaccine, the polio vaccine, we eradicated polio. If you are going to be cynical about all of them, and fine, Steve, you wanna be cynical about all of them? No problem, we don't even have to have a conversation about it. Just leave the city, take your kids away, teach them on your own, move to a farm,

but you have no business being in a society where we have agreed on certain principles and certain rules. I got time for one more call real quick. Mike, welcome. Hey, good morning. I just want to point out how you're promoting misinformation. We never eradicated polio. They just changed the definitions of things.

So iron lungs are now ventilators and so on and most of the polio cases are derived from the polio vaccine themselves i would encourage everyone to listen to dr susan humphrey read her book and you can see what actual doctors are saying not what a radio host is promoting misinformation okay sure thank you thank you misinformation i love it okay well listen it takes all kinds have these great conversations and i appreciate it oh we got information. OK, sure. Thank you. Misinformation. I love it. OK, well, listen, it takes all kinds to have these great conversations and I appreciate it. Oh, we got time for one more.

Shannon, welcome to the show. Hi there. I was just wanting to respond to what your caller Jen said about, you know, if her kid is unvaccinated, she's the only one that has to worry about it. But it's not true because there's some children that can't get vaccinated. I have a one-year-old baby boy that wasn't allowed to get his measles shot until he was one years old. And he's unprotected.

The only way to protect him is to vaccinate the people around him to keep him safe. And if you're living in a civilized community, you don't just have a responsibility to yourself and your kid, you have a responsibility to other people. Well, thank you very much. We're gonna end on that very level-headed comment. I appreciate it.

And I do appreciate everybody calling in just because it gets heated doesn't mean I don't want to hear from you. I do appreciate it. And by the way, last thing, I do not peddle misinformation to suggest otherwise is slander. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And in our previous segment, we had a rather heated conversation about whether or not you should vaccinate your kids. For measles, there's an outbreak in Ontario and 1600 kids were asked to stay home from school because their vaccinations were out of date. And I was accused of peddling misinformation. And I was because you should listen to doctors and not some talk radio host and the gentleman suggested the name of a single doctor who says that polio has not been eradicated and that's that's misinformation. Okay, so the last case of wild polio virus acquired in Canada was in 1977. In 1994,

Canada was certified as being free of wild polio virus by the World Health Organization. Only rare cases of paralytic polio have been reported since Canada and the region of the Americas were declared to have eliminated endemic wild polio virus. Now I know what's going to happen. Someone's going to say, oh, who can trust the World Health Organization? Okay. Well, if you, if you, if your contention is listen to a doctor and not a and not a talk radio host, the World Health Organization is made up of 8000 professionals, including doctors, epidemiologists, scientists and managers to address global health challenges. So to the person who told me believe a doctor and not Ben Mulrooney, I'm giving you 8000 of them to listen to. So you got to just be consistent in your debate. Just be consistent. If you keep shifting the goalposts, we can't play the game. But let's keep with a medical conversation. There was a family that brought their elderly

elderly relatives over from India. And right before leaving, they had purchased a basic super visa travel insurance plan. Now a super visa allows family members to come visit for extended periods of time. And so they got coverage of up to $100,000 from an insurance company, but for menu life, actually. But after the treatment, it was determined that she had a pre existing condition and her claim was denied. Now they went back and forth. Now they claimed the family claimed that she had been treated for a number of things, but at no point in any of her treatment or on any of her medication was the term, oh, congestive heart failure.

That's what she was treated for. But at no point in any of the medical documentation was she treated for congestive heart failure. The implication is she had these symptoms and she was treated for something, but nobody ever said that and nobody at manual life ever asked So she goes into the hospital. She's eventually put on a ventilator and the cost of her treatment exceeded $96,000 $96,311 good thing for the family right because they have a hundred thousand dollar policy. Well manual life denied the policy and and they were told that they would have to pay.

After a back and forth and being highlighted on the news, Manulife decided to honor the policy but not before some pretty stressful times for the family. So I put the question to you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. This had a positive outcome for the family. And I guess the question I would have for you is, do you purchase medical travel insurance? I look at this family, so they did the right thing, and I'm glad that Manulife,

congratulations to Manulife for not torturing this family. Medical bills can be torture, and they did the right thing, but that doesn't mean insurance companies always do the right thing. I think if you're smart enough and responsible enough to get travel insurance, that should help you. It should really help you. I've never done it.

So I'd love to ask our listeners at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK, have you ever found yourself in a situation like this? Have you ever found yourself without travel insurance and you've had to go to the hospital? And what was the cost to you for that? I remember one time my wife and I were traveling to Florida there for two days, I had some work to do,

and the gland on the side of her face in about a matter of, eh, a matter of five seconds grew to the size of a ping pong ball. And it scared the ever loving crap out of me. I looked down at my, she was fine. I looked down at my food and when I looked back up, she had this big ping pong ball. And so we rushed to the hospital rushed to the

hospital. I called my doctor in Toronto, but he didn't pick up. So we go to the emergency room and they they help deal with it. I can't remember what they did. But by the time we were already had gone through intake. My doctor called me back and he said she just has a blocked salivary gland Ben just go get a jolly rancher get a sour candy and have a suck on that and that will unclog the salivary gland and she'll be fine. And while we were waiting, they I guess it hadn't been fully done yet. I got her a sour candy and the change was dramatic. Change was dramatic. Turns out that was in fact what the problem was. And we got a $5,000 US bill for the treatment in the hospital that would have been solved by a 69 cent Jolly Rancher. And that's a funny story and we were able to afford it. But that doesn't end up funny if you can't afford to find $5,000.

We've got Mike on the line. Mike, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, Ben. Hey. Just wanted to say I was really, really impressed with the way you honored your father's birthday and the issuance of the stamp. My father's also passed. And I do similar things around his birthday with my family. And yeah, he was a great man. And I lived through his, his leadership. And he was a great man straight up.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. So yeah, the insurance company needs to be held to task on this. Well, they were held, they were held and they did the right thing. But like I said, it does highlight a precarious situation. When you travel and you get that insurance, you are at your most vulnerable. You don't have your support staff from home.

You don't have the doctors you rely on. That's why you get the insurance. And it feels to me, there should be an added level of security for people who are trusting that the insurance that they have is going to help them as if they were at home. I exactly and I was just wondering if maybe this might introduce itself into a like a pre travel screening by a health

professional of something to to verify that there's no condition of impact that play or you know, potentially a more expensive rider on that policy. Or Mike, I was I was looking into the story and that there or potentially a more expensive rider on that policy. Or it'd be a- Yeah, well, that's a, Mike, I was looking into the story and they could have asked questions, but didn't ask questions. And there can be a questionnaire that is asked

of the person getting the insurance, but the insurance company did not ask for them to fill it out. And so you don't know what you don't know. You go get your travel insurance and you fill out all the forms. And so I think for those reasons, I think manual life, I think, turned down the heat and ended up honoring the the policy. Again, better angels and that's a great thing. But

but that's not necessarily how it'll always go. No, it certainly won't. Yeah, well, I appreciate the call. Mike, thank you so much. We've got time for one't. Yeah, well, I appreciate the call. Mike, thank you so much. We've got time for one more. John, welcome to the show. Hey, good morning, Ben. Morning. Morning. Yeah, I think travelers should look after themselves and, you know, get insurance when they're traveling. It's the prudent thing to do and it's about taking responsibility but secondly the and i

would like to hear the insurance company did uh... you know honor the uh... that the policy and and that you know your comment about well it doesn't always end that way or whoever's comment that was that's where we need accountability as well it It needs to be on both sides. And so it's great that Manulife did it this time, but they should all be held to account. Yeah, I agree. I listen, I'm not suggesting that everybody, every policy needs to be honored

every single time. Sometimes there are valid reasons to say no to a claim. But in this case, it really did feel like, oh yeah, maybe the insurance company could have asked more questions, but that feels like that's a you problem, not a me problem. And this family, they had so much to worry about. Their mom was on a ventilator in a hospital far from home. That's why you get the insurance, man.

So it just feels like manual life did the right thing. Very glad it all ended up well, but I do think it highlights a scenario that I think very few of us want to find ourselves in and be on the on the receiving end of the bad news that our claim is not being honored. There's no limit to how far criminals will go to cover their tracks, but investigators will go even further to uncover the truth. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News.

This season on Crime Beat, I'll take you from the crime scene to the courtroom and inside some of Canada's most high-profile cases and some you've likely never heard of before. Search for and listen to Crime Beat on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.