The Ben Mulroney Show - Why young adults increasingly saying no to alcohol

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

GUEST:  Alanna Stern  /  CATC - Canadian Addiction Treatment Centers If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠��⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do, business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. You know, one of the things that we talk about a lot on this show is the changing likes and dislikes of this group or that group.

And as it relates to alcohol, there is certainly a massive change between the, the traditions of one generation versus the next. And so today we want to focus on young adult use of alcohol and what it means and why it is where it is. And so we're joined by Alana Stern. She's from the Canadian Addiction Treatment Center. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Okay. So let's level set. Young adult means what?

Early 20s, mid-20s, yeah. And the statistics are that, 67% of Canadians age 18 to 22, for example, reported having no alcohol at all in the past week. I can tell you that it's a 50-year-old man, I've had no alcohol today. Yeah, exactly. And far higher, by the way, we're not, I'm not going to be making jokes or anything. These are serious things we're talking about. But every now and then you can chuckle about certain things.

Some of these statistics are interesting, and they're so different from what I know, to be the truth from my generation or even previous generations that it begs certain questions. Like why? You know, high risk drinking is about half of what it was for the Canadian average. 22% of Gen Z say they've never consumed alcohol compared with 12% of millennials. So what do you think it's attributable to? Well, I think, you know, I'd like to think that it's less stigmatized. It's talked about more.

there's a lot more of a wellness and holistic approach to talking about this. But I do think from my experience working at CATC and working with clients is that we just see a shift in the pattern of use. Okay. So with the legalization of cannabis, we see a lot more young adults really focusing on polysubstance use. So although alcohol use may be declining, what we're also seeing is that there can be an increase in overdoses. from fentanyl, you. So we definitely have a crisis still happening. And even still, alcohol is still the most prominent form of death.

So I've got to wonder whether it is a collision of a few different facts. That's right. And again, wild speculation on my part. But I got to believe that the pandemic had something to do with it. The fact that so many kids grew up in isolation. Absolutely. That there isn't this tradition of getting together. and having a few beers or having a cocktail.

You know, the idea of pre-gaming before you would go out. I don't even know if kids go out anymore. That's right. So I've got to wonder if that has something to do with it. Absolutely. I think that kids are young adults are more likely to be at home, playing video games on social media, isolating, doing other things. Yeah.

But the underbelly of addiction, the things that drive addiction are still very prevalent. Well, yeah, because those things don't change. And, you know, you were here the last time. I spoke to some people from the Canadian Addiction Treatment Center, which was, you know, I pointed out that thought that the opposite of addiction isn't necessarily sobriety. It's connection. And because of that, that this might, these numbers might suggest, oh, well, they're not really relying on alcohol necessarily. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a crisis that could even be larger.

That's right. And so I also think that there might be something to do with, misunderstanding of the things that they're doing instead of alcohol, right? The fact that mushrooms or cannabis, they think that these are the things of the earth and therefore they are more holistic. That's exactly right. And they can play into a lifestyle. It's normalized more.

So they think it's okay. It's less harmful to do. But it's actually quite the opposite. We have a lot more young adults coming into treatment for severe cannabis use disorder. And tell my listeners what that means. means because I grew up, we grew up in a time where those who were proponents of marijuana would say nobody has ever

had an overdose of marijuana. Remember that was the thing. Those who would push back against the gateway drug, they'd say it's natural, it's an herb from the earth. God intended for it. Yeah, exactly. And no one ever, no one's ever been harmed by it. But we're not talking the same, you know, we're not, we're not not at all. We're not talking about something that's like grown in your home or in your backyard. We're talking

about something that is incredibly potent, very powerful and incredibly dangerous. And that is what people are using. And that is why the severity of mental health issues as a result of that is so high. Yeah. And I think they probably think that if they're not smoking it, it's even better for them, right? But something like that that is 10, 15 times more potent than anything that their uncle or or aunt or father or mother ingested. And because some of them are probably ingesting it very young,

I mean, the mental, the synaptic pathways in your head aren't set yet at that age. That's exactly right. So what are you seeing, what kind of damage, what knock on effect are you seeing at the CATCs? Well, we're seeing, number one, we're seeing a lot more young adults coming into treatment to get help. We're offering, what we offer is personalized treatment plan. So we work with people across polysubstances inpatient. I would say that people that have severe cannabis use disorder are coming in with some hallucinations, paranoia, like extreme mental health complex issues.

And I also just want to point out that, you know, we're talking in isolation about young adults' pattern of use. But what we're seeing also is that anyone from between the ages of 30 and up have an increase of use of other substances. Wait, so repeat that for me? I'm going to wrap my head around that. So what we're seeing is that people who are, you know, 30 to 40 age range have an increased use of other substances. So they're adding to it. Exactly. And that, I have to assume, has to be peeled away.

That's right. In a more complex way? Yeah. I mean, what we're seeing is an increase in overdoses from opiate use, right? Yeah. We're seeing a lot of mixed use. So someone could be drinking in. and smoking marijuana and coming in with a whole morbid sort of a concoction of.

Yeah. Now, you know, I always thought that, you know, you could have the best of intentions and you, and then you go out and you have a few drinks. And then what does alcohol do? It lowers your inhibitions, right? And also that's when you become more friendly and you may, you might have a one night stand you regret. But there are also people who will go down a path and consume something beyond alcohol that they otherwise wouldn't. Like if they stayed stone cold sober that night, they wouldn't do that other thing. That's right. With with with with alcohol not being the sort of at the starter gate for a lot of these young adults, does that change that dynamic or or is there a lowering of inhibitions that comes from

cannabis use as well that can lead to okay well I just I'm I'm having so much fun. I'll take this extra this other drug. I'll, I'll, I'll, yeah, I definitely still believe that it is a gateway drug as well. But I, I think that, you know, my experience, my personal experience as a person in recovery and also my experience working at CATC is that essentially what it does is it really does isolate you. Yeah. And so for someone that has severe substance use disorder, it essentially takes the weight of

being around people and lifts it off you so that you can do these things. So yes, you still see a lack of impulse control. You still see all those things. But what you also see is people tending to normally want to isolate and trying to push themselves to get out there by having the sense of ease and comfort. Yeah, it feels like almost like a shell game. Like these numbers sound good.

Like, what was it? In the U.S., 49% of adults say they are actively trying to drink less, with Gen Z leading the, quote, sober curious trend. Yes, exactly. These all sound like top level, very positive. But you're saying that it belies sort of just a transference into something else. Yeah, I think that what we see is mental health issues increasing. And so that ultimately is the underbelly of all this.

So I'd like to think, you know, I'd like to be positive and think that it's a sober curious movement. And maybe it is. I'm not saying that it's not. I'm just saying that it doesn't take away the anxiety and the depression and the trauma. and the trauma underneath it that drives a lot of this. And so you see it coming up in other ways or in different patterns of behavior and use. Elena Stern, if people want to get in touch,

if they've heard anything today, and they're saying, you know what, it's raising a red flag for me. How can they get in touch with Canadian addiction treatment centers? They can go to our website, which is cATC recovery.ca. I also happen to be part of the front line of admission so they can always ask for me,

Alana Stern. I am more than happy to talk to them. This is like a privilege and an honor. Hold that thought because we're going to be talking on the other side of this break as well. We got lots to get to, so don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mority show. We are continuing our conversation with Elena Stern from the Canadian Addiction Treatment Centers. And we've been talking about youth, young adult alcoholism that maybe isn't necessarily the problem that it might have been in previous generations.

But that doesn't mean that that generation is, out of the woods, that instead they're, they're replacing, they might be replacing one vice with another. That's correct. And you're on the front lines. You're seeing the end, you're seeing the end result of abuse, that's right. And leading to seeking help. So you, you would know as well as anybody that, that there are, if, I mean, if they're using it as a coping mechanism, then they're just, they're just not choosing that vice. That's right. And they're not, they're not reaching out for help because they're normalizing their use and thinking that, oh, it's, it's less harmful. Like there's nothing wrong with this.

Yeah. And families tend to seem to be protecting people. Well, that's what I was going to say. Because they're minimizing or rationalizing or justifying it. So in, you know, in university where you test your limits and you've got freedom for the first time in a lot of cases, a lot of kids go buck wild, right? And some kids, I think, I don't know if it's most, but a lot of people will eventually find the path towards normalcy.

and to have a healthy relationship with alcohol. And others don't. But while you're there, you know, you see that behavior reflected in the general society of your university, your college. And so it's just normal. And for a lot of young adults today, my theory that I sort of threw your way

during the commercial break is, you know, we know that the affordability crisis is making it so a lot of people who, in our generation, would have cut out on their own and got their first apartment. are living at home with their parents. And so experiencing what would be the impact of that negative behavior,

or experiencing, I mean, in some cases, rock bottom. That rock bottom is going to be, the blow is going to be softened by the parents who love you so much. That's right. I mean, it works both ways. At CATC, we work with a ton of families who are trying to get support for a loved one or a child. And what we find is that, yes, there is a little bit of that soft. off cushioning where they're living at home, they don't have any reasons to change, they're supportive, but then there's also families who are part of this sort of sober curious movement

or part of this wellness, understanding, and recognize that something is fundamentally wrong and don't know how to help this person. And so they call us and we're able to sort of guide them through the process. Do you have experiences where the young adult will come in with the parents and one of the parents is almost in a state of denial. No, no, my kid's fine. Absolutely. Really, huh? So what do you do in those cases?

We educate the families. We talk to them about what it looks like. We talk to them about the progressive nature of this illness. We talk to them about how their child tends to cope with life and handle stress and handle anxiety. I think there's a huge education piece. Yes, families rely on us. We have a family program as well. so anyone who enters one of our treatment centers, the families automatically get put into a family

program as well. Yeah, well, because I can imagine. Yeah, it is a family illness. I can imagine a situation where one parent desperately wants help for their child. That's right. And the other parent feels that they are helping by, they don't either see it or don't want to see it. And I can see that placing tremendous stress on the relationship between the mom and the dad. Yes.

Right? And so in a lot of cases, you're probably not intending to do it, but you're probably saving a marriage. by treating the whole family, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And also the costs of addiction are so high. Like this thing progresses. We try to help families get in front of how bad things can actually get.

So before a loved one hits a rock bottom, we try to really, yeah, yeah, bring the family units together. There's intervention work that we do. There's a lot of, yeah. Is there, I mean, is a drug a drug? I mean, I get that certain ones, opioids are different than others, but is a young adult who comes in with the burden of addiction to alcohol, do you treat them the same as somebody who has been overusing marijuana?

So our programs are always personalized to the individual's need. But clinically, clinically I would say, yeah, I mean, the underbelly. I like to say the root cause of it is the same. So even though I personally am an alcoholic, I can feel the same feelings and feel the same challenges with life that someone who's on opiates would necessarily feel. So as you said, the opposite of addiction is connection. And so what we do through the work at our facilities is also bring people together under that. So this is the disease of addiction, not just alcohol use, not just cannabis use.

And we try to connect people to that. You can't do this alone. Can I ask you how you ultimately got help? Yeah, I went to treatment. But what spurred you on to go to treatment? Yeah, so again, a very, very loving family that believed in me when I couldn't believe in myself. I've talked about it on the show. The last time I was here, I went to treatment several times before I got well.

This thing does not discriminate. It does not care what you look like, your background, what's in your bank account. It does not care. And I had so much to live for, but I, I just could not see it. And so I actually, I don't talk about this a lot. I should is that I'm actually an alumni of Canadian addiction treatment center. And I went to Greenstone Recovery, which is one of our facilities in Muscoca.

And I got well. And what happened was is that I went to detox. And I thought, you know what? I'm treatment resistant. This is never going to work for me. I've done this before. I just want to get home. And I saw something happen there that was indescribable.

I saw people recovering. and they humanized me there and they helped me to understand how to emotionally regulate and they gave me all these tools and I just went all in. I finally got out of my own way. And I went all in

and I continued to work that through their aftercare program through their alumni programming through the apps, through fellowship, through AA, I continue to do all those things in my life is dramatically. How many years ago was that?

That was over five years ago. Congratulations. Thank you. But you know, you just brought up a really interesting case. You went so many times, right? And what did that, like the first time you're, I have to assume a parent, all things being equal, a parent thinks, all right, they're going to go to treatment and they're going to get better and then they're going to come home. And it doesn't work the first time. It doesn't work the second, third, fourth,

fifth, sixth, finally works the seventh. But I don't know that all families are prepared for the reality that you and your family experience, which was this is going to take, this might take as long as it needs to take. Look, relapse was a part of my story, but it doesn't have to be a part of everyone's story. So there are people who go to treatment and one time and they do get well and they continue on. But do you prepare parents? We do. This is a disease. Part of the denial that we talked about families sometimes feeling and also the loved one feeling. It's not so bad. I can do this. I can do this on my own. Part of that is one of the things that I experienced as well. So it's important to recognize that what we do is we try to provide a program of recovery and try

to keep people aware of how insidious and serious this is. Yes. Is there a difference between treating somebody who has an addiction to something that's legal versus something that's illegal? Because there is a, I mean, listen, not in the city of Toronto, where there's no stigma to anything, but is there, is, is that, is that thing that's taboo that's legal versus illegal? Does that change how they see their problem? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. So what do you make of, what do you make of a world that we've created where, um, there is dignity and drug use, which is sort of the, the reason d'etre for a certain type of, um, uh, person with an agenda in a city like Toronto. I think it's very dangerous. Like it is very, very dangerous. The fact that I was just

seeing you on the break, the fact that I, as a sober person, have to explain to people when I go out that don't know my story that, yeah, I'm not drinking tonight. And they look at me like, what is wrong with you? They wouldn't, they wouldn't say the same thing. I mean, in certain circles, I'm sure they would. But they wouldn't say the same thing if it was something illegal, they had to buy it on the corner. If I was like, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm not going to, you know, do. pop my pills tonight, right? So, yeah, so I think it's harmful and it's dangerous. And I also think on the flip side of that is that people who are using street drugs is so much

more harmful, the quality and it's fatal, right? Well, Elena Stern, thank you so much. I hope you come back. I love chatting with you. Thank you. I love being here. Thank you so much. Canadian Addiction Treatment Centers.

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