The Best Idea Yet - 🐢Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The “Dumbest” Best Idea Yet | 28

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird were just trying to get work. These two broke illustrators were scraping by on side hustles and instant ramen… until, one fateful night, Kevin drew a doodle to get Peter to laugh: a nunchuck-wielding turtle in a ninja mask. But this one “dumb” drawing would launch the most successful self-published, creator-owned comic in history. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles— crime-fighting reptiles named for Renaissance painters— have taken on many forms, from gritty comic to kiddie cartoon to box-office sensation. They were also the third-bestselling action figure of all time, right behind GI Joe and Star Wars. Learn how Kevin and Peter turned a “yes-and” improv game into a multi-billion-dollar franchise, and why the Remix Effect helps you go viral. (Also, we have the goods on how these Turtles came to love pizza.) Here’s why the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are the best idea yet.Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterFollow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting www.wondery.com/links/the-best-idea-yet/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to the best idea yet early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Hey, Jack, how many episodes of our daily show are we up to now? 1,500 episodes. Okay, how many times we had to pause the podcast because we were laughing too hard? I have burned more calories recording our podcast from laughter than any physical activity I've ever been involved in. Well, Jack, I was thinking about this and so much of the inspiration for us doing a

daily business show are actually from improv comedy. So like the idea of like burstiness of working off the other person, there are no wrong answers kind of a thing. Whatever the last person said, you say yes, and then add your own spin to it. The yes and approach, that's it, Jack. Laughter, joking around, it's the key ingredient that makes our show come to life.

In fact, it was the key ingredient that made the subject of today's episode a massive success, totally. It started as a scrappy self-published comic book that would spawn TV shows, movies, video games and a merchandising gold rush to become a multi-billion dollar brand. But if it sounds like we're teeing up an episode about Marvel right now, close, but no pepperoni. Because we're talking about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Or TMNT, if you know, you know. Oh, and I know, Jack. As a kid, I only wore Ninja Turtle underwear. Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, and Raphael, four crime-fighting pizza-eating radioactive turtles named after Italian Renaissance artists and raised by a sewer rat with ninjitsu skills? It kind of sounds like a marketing mad-lip, doesn't it, man? It does. But the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles actually began as a self-published black and white comic book in 1984, made by two broke artists just trying to make each other laugh. Forget about the best idea yet. These guys were going for the dumbest idea yet.

Not our judgment, that is straight from the creators themselves. But this so-called dumb idea became the most successful self-published creator owned comic in history. And they drew up a playbook that much, much larger franchises would follow. Because before the MCU, there was the TMNTU. And the craziest part, this story was one cocktail napkin away from never happening at all.

We're going to go deep into the New York sewers for the Turtles origin story. And we'll be plumbing the inner workings of the $16 billion comic book industry. Along the way, we'll find out how the remix effect can keep a business thriving. And how Juliette was wrong. A rose by any other name might not actually smell as sweet. Jack, hold the anchovies. Here's why Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is the best idea yet. From Wondery and T-Boy, I'm Nick Martell.

And I'm Jack Travici-Kramer. And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products you're obsessed with. And the bold risk takers who made them go viral. They change the game in one single day. Save the everyday with deals from Amazon. On a cold November night, in the living room of a little clapper house, the glowing light of a TV set flickers across the walls.

From the street, you can faintly hear the theme song from Love Connection fade away. Inside that living room, everything is brown, including the old wallpaper of Kris Kross and Ivy. The only decorations are a calendar, some sketches, and a handwritten checklist held up by a couple of thumbtacks. This place doesn't look much like a comic book startup run by two 20-somethings, but spoiler, that's exactly what this is. We are in Dover, New Hampshire. It's 1983, and the 20-somethings in question are Kevin Eastman and Peter Lair. The house is Peter's, which he shares with his girlfriend and a few roommates, including Kevin, who's staying while he and Peter work to get their illustration business

off the ground. Peter is 29, with glasses, a high forehead, and a wardrobe that leans business casual. An art school grad, Peter is supporting himself barely as a commercial illustrator. If you're a supermarket chain and you need some beautifully drawn broccoli, then Peter, he's your guy. Kevin is eight years younger, just 21, with a mop of curly black hair. He's been doing odd jobs since high school, making comics on the side. And his most reliable gig is as a line cook at a Maine lobster restaurant during the summers. Now, Peter, he's the introverted one.

Kevin, he's the outgoing one. But artistically, their drawing styles complement each other so well that they can work on the same illustration and it looks like it's done by one person. Peter and Kevin, they've been trying to get illustration work as a team and they call themselves Mirage Studios. Kind of cute, Joe. I like it. I like it too.

But there's actually a subtle meaning here. It's actually just them in Peter's living room with the brown wallpaper building their portfolio and making homegrown comics that they hope to sell to a publisher. So it's kind of a mirage. Now their first project is called Fugitoid, which is a comic about a scientist whose mind gets transplanted into the body of his robot. But no publisher's bite. So Kevin and Peter self-release Fugitoid.

They lump it together with a bunch of their other original drawings and stories in a comic that they call Gobbledygook. I like these guys. I like these guys too, man. So they print out 150 copies at the copy shop and staple each one of them by hand. And then they sell them for a buck 50 each at a comics convention in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

Now, Fugitoid does not set the world on fire. No, good point, Jack. After two printings, they still have copies of Gobbledygook boxed up around the house. But honestly, they are not giving up. On this cold night in November, Peter and Kevin are still plugging away in that living room as the TV blares in the background. As the Love Connections credits dissolve into commercials, Kevin starts doodling and starts

to smile. Finally, he shoves the paper he's been doodling on towards Peter. He's drawn an oversized turtle standing on two legs like a person. Now this reptile is wearing a cloth ninja mask and knee pads even though he doesn't seem to have knees. He's got nunchucks and he is ready to attack. And at the top of the paper, Kevin wrote two fateful words, Ninja Turtle. Peter takes one look and immediately starts cracking up. I mean, it's hard not to when

you see this thing. I mean, a Ninja Turtle makes about as much sense as a ballerina otter or a jujitsu giraffe. But Peter grabs a pen and dashes off his own version. And Kevin sees that Peter's turtle looks way cooler. This is a good old fashioned cartoon hop. So Kevin grabs the paper and draws four turtles this time. And he gives them other deadly weapons. One's got a katana, a super sharp sword, and one's got a wooden staff. Each is striking a deadly looking pose. And together they're like an elite fighting squad ready for battle. But Kevin's drawing is all in pencil, so Peter snatches it back and inks it.

Then he adds something that will change the course of comic book history forever. Peter adds two more words, Teenage Mutant in front of the Ninja Turtle name. And together, the pair look down at this. They just burst out laughing. They're both thinking the same exact thing as they stare at those four words. This is the dumbest thing ever. This is so dumb.

Yet is this is about to be their core operating principle. It's going to be absurdity. The first turtle drawings may have come in a flash of inspiration, Absurdity. The first turtle drawings may have come in a flash of inspiration, but the rest of the idea is more like a slow burn. Yeah, Peter and Kevin, they don't have a next project lined up. So they start to think, you know what?

These turtles made us laugh. Maybe these things have some potential. But it's not enough to have four awesome looking turtles. Any published product from comic books to rom-com movies need a compelling narrative. What made these turtles mutants? Why teenagers? If they're ninjas, who are they fighting? Relationships, weaknesses, desires.

That's what makes a franchise connect and succeed. They start fleshing out the story here and they take inspiration from their favorite comic creators like Jack Kirby, who co-created Captain America, or Frank Miller, whose run on the Marvel series Daredevil is considered one of the best. Peter and Kevin actually decide to make the Ninja Turtles plot kind of a Daredevil parody. In Daredevil, the main character is hit by a rogue canister of radioactive material. And he goes blind, but also gets a bunch of sweet powers. So Peter and Kevin think, what if after it hit Daredevil, that radioactive canister also hits someone else?

Like an innocent bystander carrying a fishball full of his pet baby turtles. And what if the baby turtles and the glowing green ooze drop into an open manhole where they're discovered by a rat previously owned by a ninja master? Yeah! And then the ooze makes the turtles and the rat intelligent creatures capable of learning the ancient art of ninjitsu. Okay! And maybe, maybe these turtles seek justice in the human world by... fighting crime?

Yeah! Okay, alright! There we go. Daredevil Sensei was named Stick, so they named the Turtles Rat Sensei Splinter. And the evil crime syndicate from Daredevil is the Hand. So in the Turtles universe, the bad guys are called... The Foot. Peter and Kevin's story is chock full of Easter eggs

and knowing winks, especially for comic nerds. They also create a whole bunch of original characters too, like April O'Neil, the turtle's human pal. And a proper villain to lead the Foot Clan, a fearsome villain named Shredder, whose spiky costume happens to be inspired by a metal cheese grater. But the most important element of all this world building? It's the four Ninja Turtles themselves. At first, Peter and Kevin tried giving the characters Japanese names, since Splinter, the rat who names the turtles, had belonged to a Japanese ninja master. But none of the names feel absurd enough, so they ask, huh, what if Splinter is a rat

who also appreciates the fine arts? Maybe he enjoys painting and frescoes and 16th century European sculpture. So they grab an art textbook from Peter's bookshelf and flip backwards through history and they land on a quartet of Italian Renaissance Artists, you know the names already Leonardo Michelangelo Donatello and Raphael It's so ridiculous that they just crack themselves up all over again. It's the operating principle. Absolute absurdity. And these turtles will eventually develop their own unique personalities.

But at first, what sets them apart from each other are their weapons. Leonardo has katana blades, Michelangelo's got nunchucks, Donatello's got a long wooden staff called a bow, and Raphael has a pair of sai, that's S-A-I, that kind of look like tridents with a long middle point. But Peter and Kevin do something else to separate the characters from the crowd. That's gonna be a powerful differentiator.

They write them sort of like bratty teenagers. They're not noble, like or brooding like Batman. They squabble, they party, and they still have a lot to learn. It's like they're going through puberty. Actually, they are going through puberty. They're pretty relatable for mutant reptiles. Now, once Peter and Kevin get all the lore sorted out and hit

those key core universal human traits, they get out their drawing lap boards, they nestle into that living room sofa, and they start sketching. Time to bring the Ninja Turtles out of the sewers and into the world. For their first Ninja Turtles issue, Peter and Kevin's workflow is extremely collaborative. Kevin works out the storyline and sketches a draft of the character action, then Peter dives in to refine the dialogue. This complementary combo pulled double duty on penciling and inking the final drafts. Remember, they're working out of Peter's

living room so they can literally just trade pages back and forth like a bag of Doritos. They keep the illustrations in black and white. It's cheaper that way. With a cover that incorporates just one additional color. Blood red for the Turtles masks. Now Peter and Kevin, they keep working into the spring of 1984. That's four months scraping by on just ramen and savings. But finally they are done.

And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles issue number one is born. This 40 page comic, it is full of elaborate illustrations, snappy dialogue, and heart racing action. Jack, can you do a little dramatic reading here from page one, issue one? My name is Leonardo. We made a wrong turn somewhere. Now we're caught with our backs to the wall in this trash, stern alley. Barring the way out are 15 members of the Purple Dragons, the toughest street gang on

the East Side. The only way they'll let us out of here is if we're dead. Now that's a lot more goth than the Ninja Turtles I remember, by the way. Sounds like Leonardo is channeling Quentin Tarantino. Now the first version is kind of hardcore. The turtles curse sometimes, and when they street fight, you see some blood splatter across the scene. Honestly, it's a little less PG, a little more R. While Ninja Turtles Number One isn't written with kids in mind, its target is comic fans,

the types of fans that go to Comic Con and don't need a parent's permission. They want to see someone lose a limb in these books. Which brings us to their next big decision as a team. What to do next? Remember, with their first comic, their goal was to sign with a publisher. Publishing houses, they've got distribution relationships, marketing budgets, editors. That is the surest path to really make it in the industry. And distribution is destiny.

But their last attempt to get published professionally failed miserably. Yeah, it did. So this time they don't even bother approaching any publishers. Instead, they're going to get it printed themselves and take it to this year's Portsmouth Mini-Con, the same convention where they first sold those hand-stapled issues of gobbledygook. Those last copies didn't sell so well, but Peter and Kevin have reason to think self-publishing will go better this time. But they'll need to upgrade their quality. No more printing off copies at Kinko's. They'll need to pay for

professional help. So they get a quote from the print shop in Dover, New Hampshire. 3,200 copies? That's gonna cost them two grand for context two grand is a third of Peter's illustration income For the entire past year, but these guys get scrappy and they literally scraped together Kevin's five hundred dollar tax refund a 1300 dollar loan from his uncle and the last 200 bucks in Peter's bank account This add it all up is their start of capital. $2,000 plus 12-15 weeks of sweat equity. These two unsuccessful illustrators are betting everything they have on four turtles named

after dead Italians. Is this actually the dumbest idea ever? So they pull the trigger on the printing, which should be ready right in time for minicon. Hang on a sec, you said 3,200 copies? Wasn't the last batch only 150? Yeah, here's the problem Jack. Commercial printers, they don't really do small runs like that. So these guys, they either got to go big or keep themselves warm next winter by burning unsold issues of their comic. So Peter and Kevin, they need some buzz, which hopefully will lead to sales, and they get strategic about who they're targeting. First they buy an ad in an industry magazine called Comics Buyer's Guide.

Picture comic book guy from The Simpsons, he's the one reading this magazine, and it is crucial that they get his buy-in, because he's the guy buying these comics in bulk and stocking the shelves. Peter and Kevin are hoping the name, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will pique buyers attention. It's fresh, it's new, it tells you exactly what the comics about while also provoking a million questions because it's such a dumb name. A grabby name like this it's actually something we call buzz branding. It's a marketing one-shot. The name

itself is both the description and the advertisement all in one. It's not easy to pull off, but if you do, it is gold. But to generate buzz, Peter and Kevin also use the entrepreneur's greatest natural resource, their local library. Deep in the stacks, the duo finds a book listing all the major media outlets in the Northeast. That's print, radio, television, and they use it to create a mailing list of 200 different outlets. And then they send each one of those organizations a one-page press release with two pages of sample artwork. And then our scrappy duo spend a whole day meticulously stuffing and labeling and stamping 200 envelopes.

Then Peter and Kevin cart the press packets off to the mailbox. Now all they can do is wait. This is either going to work perfectly or their fireplaces are going to be stocked with comic book kindling come next November. lives and let us focus on what really matters. We use Amazon. It saves us time and saves brain space too. The bane of every high producer's existence is a to-do list. Well, one way to eliminate a to-do list, you have an Amazon app on your phone. When you realize you need something, don't add it to your list. Just add it to your cart. Boom, you just cleared mental mind space because that thing you need is already in the cart. Out of detergent, add it to the cart. Sun's grown out of his shoes, add a pair of size 10s to the cart. He's growing fast, man.

Short on TP, add a 24-pack to the cart before it's too late. At the end of the week, we push order and it's consolidated into one single delivery. Our mental mind space is scarce. Put your mind at ease by letting Amazon handle your shopping. Don't add it to your list, add it to your cart. That way, you can come up with your own best idea yet. Save the everyday with deals from Amazon. Jack, you know that feeling when you show up somewhere new for the first time only to realize these are my people. It's a great feeling. Well, if you're a comics fan,

that's exactly how you feel. Stepping into the Howard Johnson Motor Lodge, to the Portsmouth Mini-Con on May 5th, 1984. Everywhere you look, you see hundreds of other comic book fans lining up around the room to meet their favorite creators. This is a safe space, people. Now, at the back of the room, between the restroom sign and an emergency exit, Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird

are sitting at a folding table. They do not look like big shots. Kevin, he's actually wearing a Thor t-shirt, looking just like any other attendee. But if you step closer, you can see what they've been up to. Tacked up on the wall behind them is a poster that says Mirage Studios.

And another that's a beautiful painting of the Turtle Warriors in action. And on the table, along with the back issues of Gobbledygook, are stacks of their new comic and a sign, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. One dollar, fifty cents. Kevin and Peter do not end up selling all 3200 copies at this convention. But here, a bet that Peter and Kevin made earlier pays off. Big time.

Remember those 200 press releases they sent out? Well that actually works. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' radically unusual name and description piques the interest of a journalist from United Press International. That's a wire service where one article can go to hundreds of outlets at once. The writer interviews Peter and Kevin and even sends a photographer to their house. And this leads to mentions in newspapers nationwide. That's a huge break for these two. All the comic book store guys see this turtle reference in the press

because of this article. That is not only validating, it gets these comic book shop owners to start ordering copies. Oh, that's huge, Jack. Mirage? They actually sell out their first run in just a matter of weeks. And then a second printing of 6,000 copies? That sells out too. In just two months, these Ninja Turtle creators have made enough to repay the loan from Kevin's uncle and split a $200 profit. But get this, after the second printing sells out, Kevin goes back to Maine to resume his

summer job cooking lobsters. He does not know how to process the success he's just had. So when he gets back in the fall, Peter's like, where are you, bad man? Peter's like, all summer long, I've been getting requests for Ninja Turtles number two. So Kevin's basically like, my bad, man. You're right. Let's do this. So they go for it.

In October 1984, they published issue number two, this time 15,000 copies. And to their surprise, those sell out too. They just five X'd. Peter and Kevin work out their profits and losses and they realize, holy guacamole, they're about to be $2,000 in the black. That's more profit on one project than they've ever made in their entire lives, tips included. And Jack, they realize, hey, if we start releasing bi-monthly issues, then we can make drawing Ninja Turtles a full-time job.

This is a beautiful moment in their startup journey. Oh, this is wonderful. The we can actually live off this moment. The we don't have to cook lobsters at a restaurant in main moment, Jack. Seeing that first revenue come into your bank account, it can be really affirming. Oh, absolutely. And Peter and Kevin start hiring to keep up with that bi-monthly publishing schedule. They bring on a letter, an inker, a penciler. They even hire a business manager

for this little budding company. And by issue number eight, they're selling 135,000 copies. Pretty good for a couple of guys with less than a grand between them to start. But to quote the rapper Biggie Smalls, no money, no problems. True in rapping, true in business. Windows are open, letting a light summer breeze drift into the new digs. Drop cloths cover the floors, and Peter and Kevin dip their rollers into aluminum pans of paint. Kevin's sneakers are splattered with a mist of eggshell white. It's a summer day in 1986 and Mirage Studios has moved into office space in Northampton, Massachusetts. The buzzer rings. Their midday appointment is here. Peter and Kevin, they walk

downstairs, don't change their clothes, and greet their guest with smiles. But the guest is looking a little uncomfortable because he's wearing his one good suit. This is Mark Friedman. Mark is a licensing agent. He represents creative properties and finds them partnership opportunities.

Mark actually got his start repping characters like Scooby-Doo and the Flintstones, but at the moment his licensing business is not doing great because right now his actual number of active clients is zero. But Mark? Mark's hungry and he's been scouting licensing opportunities where the big players are not, like Specialty Comics and Dungeons & Dragons gaming shops at your local strip mall. He sees upside in the industry's underbelly. He's going where no one else is willing to go. Like Northampton, Massachusetts.

And the more Mark learns about the turtle's ridiculous lore, the more excited he is. Great characters and story arcs. Elaborate names and mutant animals. These are great licensing opportunities. Now, Mark explains all of this to Peter and Kevin. How they haven't even touched the surface of their creation's commercial potential. How comics can leverage their IP into brand extensions and merchandise from action figures to TV to movies. That is how you build brand recognition. And that is where the real money is made. Just ask Disney. Or ask the kid who's wearing Paw Patrol Band-Aids.

Now, Peter and Kevin didn't start their comic to get rich. They're just happy to be making a living and laughing while doing it. This was the dream they wanted. Yeah. But they also like this Mark guy. So they all go out for ice cream and in that ice cream shop, they actually hash out a deal. And they sign their first agreement on a paper napkin honestly one gust of wind and that whole business plan could have been done for so here's the deal Mark's got

60 days to bring them some merchandising opportunities so he hits the road he pitches toy companies like Mattel to talk about Ninja Turtles action figures with their dynamic fighting stances and rad accessories seems like a no-brainer oh totally you get these turtles on a lunchbox I mean Jack that's the action figures. With their dynamic fighting stances and rad accessories, seems like a no brainer. Oh totally, you get these turtles on a lunch box? I mean Jack, that's the threshold of brand obsession. The parents buy it, the kids use it every day. Let's make it happen Mattel. But Mattel is not biting. They say the idea is too niche, too clever, and too underground. Mattel is thinking about their massive nationwide distribution. If they're going to sell a toy,

it's got to be able to sell on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and the middle of Idaho. Mark actually hears this same critique everywhere he tries. So it's looking grim. Until finally, he scores a meeting with a family-friendly toy company called Playmates Toys. Playmates is interested, but there is one catch. Most of Playmates toys are actually geared toward little kids. We're talking ages 4 to 8. And the comic book version of the Ninja Turtles are not. Remember, the turtles got that gritty vibe when they're street brawling and casual curse

words. If a mutant rat gets stabbed in the trachea, 8-year-old Ethan isn't sleeping through the night anytime soon. Plus, retail stores like Toys R Us, they're kind of hesitant about selling katanas to 6-year-olds. But then, the licensing mastermind Mark Friedman comes up with a way to play out the turtle's natural humor and play down the violence.

Yeah, it's a simple tweak, but it's a powerful tweak. What about this, guys? An animated series. They're the world's most fearsome fighting team. We're really hip. They're heroes in the house show and they're green. It's this animated series that probably introduced you to the turtles in the first place.

Right, most eight-year-olds aren't hanging around comic book shops on the strip malls, but they're definitely watching Saturday morning cartoons, which are really 30-minute toy commercials if you think about it. These days, it's assumed that the most valuable path for your IP is to go to a TV show or a feature film. Picture the Barbie movie. It's a one and a half billion dollar box office success.

The toy that becomes the hit movie or TV show, that's the dream, right? But in the late 1980s, it's actually the other way around. A TV show or a movie existed back then to steer more kids toward the toys. The toys were the real profit puppy. So in 1987, Mark Friedman convinces playmates to order five episodes of an animated Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TV show to test its viability. If kids like it, they'll make more. If not, well, this two-dimensional animation is pretty cheap to make. The company won't be out that much money. Great mini risk to take. Now for Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird, this is kind of an emotional moment. It's more or less the first time that their product is going to be out of their hands. Yeah, they're going to be advising on the project and contributing

new character designs, but the main task of adapting their gritty reptilian comic to a kid's format falls to an animation studio that they can't control. Earlier, we mentioned the joy of the entrepreneurial moment. This is the flip side, the moment you have to give up control of your baby. But Peter and Kevin, they think back to their days laughing on that couch, and they know that they're down for their next big bed. The new team's job is to soften the edges of the comic and make it more suitable to kids. Take it from a rated R down to a rated G. The new team's job is to soften the edges of the comic and make it more suitable to kids. Take it from a rated R down to a rated G.

You could just hear some VP of marketing going, do they have to fight with nunchucks? Can we keep Trekkies intact in this new show? So Michelangelo, he does get to keep the chucks. But the studio also comes up with some strategic solutions to make the characters more kid appropriate. Like changing the saltyty language to Surfer Slay. And that's how we get Cowabunga. No belief is necessary when you drop a Cowabunga. But it's not just the lingo. They also give the turtles a food indulgence that kids can really relate to. They give them pizza. So much pizza.

Oh, so much pizza. And then April O'Neil, the turtle's human friend, goes from a complicated computer programmer in the comics to a Lois Lane type that often needs to be rescued so that her story arc is simpler for kids to comprehend. Oh, and Shredder's evil Foot Clan army? They transform from humans in the comics to robots in the animated series, so there are no actual deaths when the turtles take them down. No blood in those bots. But remember, the more characters,

the more the merch opportunities. You gotta maximize that IP for profitability, man. So Shredder also gets some new sidekicks in this TV show. He gets Bebop, who's a mutant warthog, and he gets Rocksteady. He's a mutant rhino and he's dressed like a barista in Bushwick The animated show also needs to make it easier for children to tell all these turtles apart So they each get their own bandana color Leonardo's blue Michelangelo's orange Donatello's purple and Raphael the og red And if that's not enough the show's theme song is there to give you their defining character traits. As literal as these lyrics are, there's actually a really strategic point to them. Giving each character differentiated traits helps the audience connect with them more deeply.

The pilot of the newly kid-friendly Ninja Turtles airs in December 1987. Crucially, the week right after Christmas, when the kids are home from school and so ready for a new cartoon to watch. And that timing pays off. The show takes off and reviews start popping up everywhere, including from columnists that have nothing to do with television. Like the sports writer Mike Lupica from the New York Daily News. Jack, he declared, my new favorite show for 1988 is a show I haven't even seen and it's called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I don't care what it's about, it's my new favorite show. It's all in the name. This isn't an unusual reaction either.

The title really does hook people's attention, at least enough to get them to check out the show. That is some buzz branding. Now there are just two people in America who aren't into all this at the moment. And unfortunately, it's the Turtles original creators, Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman. The buddies are less than thrilled

with the kiddie show version of their comic, especially when it comes to Shredder. For them, even cartoon villains should provoke some sense of danger. But the Turtles cartoon is careful not to make any villain too scary. Remember, we want Ethan sleeping through the night. You may be wondering at this point, isn't it still their IP? Why don't they push back on these changes that they don't like? Well, in later interviews, Peter says he wishes that they had. But there are reasons for just going with the flow. First, vetoing the changes would probably kill the toy deal.

And that's a lot of money to say no to. Also, they're young guys, and this is their first big licensing deal. It can be hard in these situations to stand up for yourself, even if on paper, you're legally the one in charge. Absolutely, Jack. And can I add one more reason? It can be hard in these situations to stand up for yourself, even if on paper you're legally the one in charge. Absolutely, Jack. And can I add one more reason I think they don't push back on these changes? Kids freaking love the show.

The turtles, the pizza, the bebop, the rocksteady. So the toy company Playmates orders a bunch more episodes for the 1988 season. And suddenly, kids everywhere are playing Ninja Turtles, assigning turtle names to each other pre-recess. Easiest group Halloween costume ever. Forget the Zodiac. 1988, the year of Jack's and my birth, it becomes the year of the turtle. That holiday shopping season,

the general public is in the throes of turtle mania. That's actually what people call the back bed. True story. We're talking t-shirts, underwear, bedsheets, lunch boxes, beach towels, even birthday party supplies. Oh, and then Jack, there are the action figures. Oh, the action figures.

Playmates makes 400 unique designs for action figures. Between 1988 and 1992, the Turtles franchise earns a billion dollars in toy sales alone, making the Turtles the third biggest selling action figure of all time, right behind G.I. Joe and Star Wars. Not too shabby. In fact, in 1991, Kevin Eastman estimates he personally grosses $50 million on the TurtleMania. Oh, and this kind of payout takes the sting

out of any creative differences Peter and Kevin might have with the show. Especially since the deal doesn't prevent Kevin and Peter from continuing the original comics exactly the way they want. Blood, guts, severed tracheas and all. But hang on to your shells, because we haven't even gotten to the craziest part of this story. Coming up, we'll hear how the most creative dude of the 20th century got a case of turtle mania too.

At 24 I lost my narrative or rather it was stolen from me and the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names,

about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Jack and I have studied major media brands for years. In fact, there is a whole Walt Disney playbook to scaling intellectual property. Once you have a hit TV show, the next obvious step is a major motion picture. And in March 1990, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the feature film debuts with one big surprise, live action.

We don't mean that fake CGI live action they used in the recent Lion King. No, no. good point, Jack. We're talking real puppetry here. Turtle suits, animatronic heads, the whole shebang. And those suits are created by a visual effects lab called The Creature Shop, founded by certified genius and best idea yet alum Jim Henson, the man behind The Muppets and Sesame Street. And this live action film sprinkles back on some of the grittiness that Peter and Kevin felt were missing from the animated kids show. And the fans like it

too. Basically, the Turtles are graduating from G-rated to at least PG. And the financial results, Jack. The only word that describes them is cowabunga. The first Turtles film grosses over $200 million worldwide on a budget of less than $14 million. That is a 13x return. And that's not even counting a massive endorsement deal with Pizza Hut, because pizza. But man, that movie was one of the greatest ROI's in Hollywood history. Now the success of the film, it also reveals something bigger about the Turtles franchise. It shows that the Ninja Turtles aren't just one thing. There can be multiple versions across different media, each reaching a different audience. And that

widens the appeal overall, and it widens the revenue opportunities. Now, fans of the OG comic already knew that, of course. But for most of the viewing public that only knows the kitty cartoon, this is a revelation. The grittier 1990 film opens up all sorts of growth opportunities. Its sequel comes one year later, The Secret of the Ooze, and it swings way back to silly and absurd. It's not every Turtles movie that's going to feature a cameo from Vanilla Ice. But it has adapted with the times with each new iteration. So far, there have been seven Ninja Turtles feature films and counting plus five TV adaptations and video games from arcade to Xbox. And that includes the 2023 animated film co-written by Seth Rogen with a cast targeting Gen Z, including I.O.I. Debris, Post Malone, and Mr. Beast. And that one grossed 200 million bucks too.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise is like a kaleidoscope, changing colors and shapes every time you turn it, but each time staying so absurd that it works. What had started in the den of two broke artists trying to out-dumb each other in New Hampshire is now a franchise worth billions.

Eventually, the weight of managing the turtle licensing empire takes a toll on the founder's friendship. Kevin moves to California, Peter stays in New England, and then they stop working together at all. Heavy is the bandana, as they say. In the year 2000, Kevin sells his shares of the Ninja Turtles back to Peter. And in 2009, Peter sells the franchise rights to Viacom for $60 million. But Peter and Kevin can't ever really turn their backs on their signature creation. Today, you can find recent pictures of the two of them together, showing up for events like Comic Con.

In these pictures, Peter is still dressed a bit like a retired professor and Kevin is still wearing a Thor t-shirt. But the best part of all, these two are together smiling. And it makes sense, Jack, because they really did fulfill their dream. They've made their living from an idea born out of pure fun, an idea lovingly called the dumbest idea yet. So Jack, now that we've heard the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle story, what's your takeaway?

There it is. Building a company or starting a business is like doing improv. Yeah. You have to say yes and. The turtles got their start because Peter and Kevin essentially had an improv session with sketchbooks in their living room that day. One said yes and to the other's idea,

and they kept building and building without stopping to say, hey, what if this is stupid? Or getting bogged down in a cycle of doubt. They didn't let their inner critic get in the way of their inner child. Now there is definitely a critique phase of every product or creative work, in a cycle of doubt. They didn't let their inner critic get in the way of their inner child. Now there is definitely a critique phase of every product or creative work, but in the beginning to give yourself joy and momentum, you have to say yes and. What about your neck?

What's your takeaway on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Mine is about what we call the remix effect. When you go full DJ on an idea to make it a viral product. You know how most social media platforms give users a way to sample, quote, tweet, add to, and otherwise remix another user's content? It works for building other products as well. Great point. And this isn't new. Shakespeare was one of the OG content remixers.

He would take classical myths, folktales, and actual history and remix them into a new form of masterpiece. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles began as a remix. They remixed Daredevil, another comic. They remixed Jack Kirby's Captain America, Japanese martial arts traditions. They remixed all of it to make their own thing. And then other people came along and remixed Ninja Turtles into whole different types of media. The remix effect is a great way for your product to have a long healthy life in the marketplace. Before we go, it's time for our favorite part of the show, the best facts yet. The hero stats, facts, and surprises we discovered in our research, but just couldn't fit into the

story. Jack hit me with, what do we got, man. New Yorkers. Did you know that Ninja Turtles were actually tourism ambassadors for the city back in 2016? Very official position, Jack. Very impressive. Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo and Raphael starred in a citywide marketing campaign encouraging visiting families to get the most out of their New York City experience. And being the biggest pizza head of the bunch, Michelangelo's recommendations were actually usually restaurants. Oh, but Jack, I got another one for you.

The first Cowabunga was actually used in the 1950s kid show, Howdy Doody, before it was adopted by surfers in California. Cowabunga! So that word wasn't even Peter and Kevin's idea? No it wasn't. In fact, they ended up getting sued by the Howdy Doody people and had to settle for 50,000 bucks over the term cowabunga.

I'm glad they didn't put Michelangelo up at the stand. And finally, if you're loving this 1990s nostalgia, try this one out. The voice of Shredder in the original animated TV show? It was an actor named James Avery. And Jack, where have we heard James Avery's voice before? Uncle Phil in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. He died in 2013, but his iconic voice will live on forever. No, it can't be. They've escaped. And that, my friends, is why Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is the best idea yet. Coming up on the next episode of the best idea yet, whip out your Starbucks app,

select your syrups and number of pumps because we're talking about the Frappuccino. Hey, if you have a product you're obsessed with but you wish you knew the backstory, drop us a comment. We'll look into it for you. Oh, and don't forget to rate and review the podcast. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of the best idea yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcast. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. The best idea yet is a production of Wondery, hosted by me, Nick Martel, and me, Jack Kraviche

Kramer. Our senior producers are Matt Beagle and Chris Gaultier. Peter Arcuni is our additional senior producer. Our senior managing producer is Nick Ryan and Taylor Sniffin is our managing producer. Our associate producer and researcher is H. Conley. This episode was written and produced by Katie Clark Gray. We use many sources in our research including Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Ultimate Visual History by Andrew Faragra. The Complete History of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by Rob Lamwe for Mental Floss. And the absolutely unhinged turtlepedia, Wiki on Fandom.

Sound Design and Mixing by CJ Drummler. Fact Checking by Brian Bunyan. Music Supervision by Scott Velazquez and Jolina Garcia for Freesan Sync. Our theme song is Got That Feeling Again by Blakalak. Executive producers for Nick and Jack Studios are me, Nick Martel, and me, Jack Ravici-Cramer. Executive producers for Wondery are Dave Easton, Jenny Lauer Beckman, Erin O'Flaherty, and Marshall Lewy. Thinking about the misfortunes your small business could suffer doesn't seem very zen, but meditate on this for a moment. Thinking leads to preparation. Preparation leads to peace of mind. You could call it

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