The Best of Car Talk - #24102: A Mechanic's Koan

Episode Date: December 21, 2024

A koan is a paradoxical statement that tries to make sense of ambiguity. Sort of like, "The Best of Car Talk". Hear one of our favorite mechanics' koan all the way from Alabama on this episode.Get access to hundreds of episodes in the Car Talk archive when you sign up for Car Talk+ at plus.npr.org/cartalkLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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O-R-G. That's plus dot npr dot o r g that's plus dot npr dot o r g and thanks. Hello and welcome to Car Talk from National Public Radio with us, Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers and we're broadcasting this week from the Center for Automotive Desirability here at Car Talk Plaza. Oh, we're going to talk about my doctorate? A subject that my brother knows a lot about. You are kidding.

I have here in my hot little hand the list of what some would say are the most desirable cars in the country. Really? Yeah. Okay. It's actually a list of the cars that were stolen most often in 1996. This is very, very interesting. First car, a 94 Honda Accord.

Now, you'll notice a pattern here when I read this. Second most stolen car, an 88 Honda Accord. Third, a 92 Honda Accord. Fourth, an 87 Olds Cutlass Supreme. Fifth, a 95 Ford Mustang. Sixth, an 86 Olds Cutlass Supreme. Then we go back to Hondas. Number seven, a 95 Honda Accord. Number number seven a 95 Honda Accord number

eight and 90 Honda Accord number nine and 89 Toyota Camry and number ten a 92 Honda Accord one two three yeah I counted them already five six Honda's six out of ten and they're all Honda's and they're all Accords my first reaction of course was how come all the Honda Accords and the heck is it old Cutlass Supreme doing in there? Here's the explanation. Yeah. Now the Cutlass, everyone knows the Cutlass is interchangeable with a bunch of other GM

cars from the 80s. This is the legacy of Roger Smith, man. This is what you complained about for 20 years. I did. And okay, so what Roger Smith has accomplished is he has made cars that get to be stolen the most because they're all the same. That's right, you steal an Oldsmobile, you've stolen parts from Buick, Chevys, and Pontiacs too.

One stop shopping. One stop shopping. Now the Accord, it's not that the parts can be used on other cars, it's just that one, there are lots of Accords out there, I mean, so that doesn't surprise me, they're on the list a lot of times. True.

Because there are lots of Accords, but there are lots of Sables and Tauruses, and they're not on the list. They're not on the list a lot of times. True. Because there are lots of accords, but there are lots of sables and toruses and they're not on the list. They're not on the list at all. But the accord body style stays the same for four years at a time. So for Thief Steel's like a 94 accord, he can sell body panels for 91, 92, 93 and 94. That's one of the reasons the accord is so popular among thieves.

Well, it's interesting. I think it's very interesting and I'm shocked that Dodge darts are not on the list. Yeah. I mean, in your owner's manual, didn't it tell you to when you were done driving and you parked to leave the key under the mat? You know, I brought my car to the gas station the other day to have the inspection items taken care of. And the guy fixes my car up and he locks the doors, puts up the top and locks the doors. I go to pick up

the car, I can't get in it. The door locks don't work, they work to close the car, but the key doesn't open the doors. I had to break into my own car! With a razor blade? No, with a Jimmy. Oh, you and Jimmy broke in? Jimmy and I broke in. He's the kid who works at the gas station. If you want to call us about your car, the number is 1-800-332-9287. Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hi, I'm Cathy calling from Connecticut. Hi Cathy. Cathy with a K?

Cathy with a C. Next time I have a name that says like Mary, it only starts with an M. Yeah. My mother made my life difficult. Yeah, well, mothers do that. Tell me. So you ready for my problem, because I know you're going to help me. Certainly we are. mothers do that. Tell me. So you're ready for my problem, because I know you're going to help me. If not, I'm on the way. Soitnly we are. Soitnly. Go ahead, Catherine. I'll tell you my problem. I'm one of the little nice ladies that takes care

of my car, flush the antifreeze. It's as clean as a whistle. My head gasket blows at about 46,000 miles, even though the car at that point was about, it's a Nissan Sentra, was about eight, eight and a half years old so they don't tell me why they feel well the car overheated we don't know why queens uh... well from manhattan from an ad but you see a state and she lives in connecticut yeah i think they did i have on here on good behavior

uh... manhattan and the lower east side of the very tough neighborhood yelling sound tough very tough they. Yeah, well you are. You sound tough. Very tough. Very tough. They don't, they don't, I don't scare them here in Connecticut though. How long ago did you escape? Well, 12 years. 12 years? It takes two lifetimes to get rid of the Manhattan accent, especially Lower East Side. That's why, you know, I had to think the other day, those witness protection things,

they take all those thugs out of you. Yeah. All those guys say, yeah, I take two sugars in my coffee coffee and they try to relocate them to like Billings, Montana. I mean are these guys going to fit in? You know that might be my next career, witness protection. They think I was on their side. So your head gasket blew at 46k. My head gasket blew. It could be big box with some of the more on that with local because i could drive the car so i pay him so now he gave me one year warranty right well one year two months

later when i was fifty seven thousand miles surprise head get the boat again really so i get into the dealership here up in shelton connecticut now i'm screaming i think what the heck how could a head get get blow with again now the car you know almost ten years old but i'm taking care of it at fifty seven thousand miles they could well the first job wasn't done right because you didn't have it done at the d or who

now we're talking yes they can hardly wait for these things to happen right they wait for me you know i'm i'm a little small person if they find it very funny can't grand to grand for the second head gasket now we tell you don't worry it's going to be like no so i live in fear of the car that this happening again and you know when it's going to the warranty is over they didn't give you a warranty did they they gave me a year yeah so i'm getting up here but it is a problem uh... when i drive on the highway which i usually do to go to work, it's fine.

The heat gauge is right sort of in the middle, looks great. So I go into a parking lot, I'm looking for a spot at a building and I'm not finding a parking spot. So I'm going maybe seven minutes, you know, stop and go, I'm looking left, right at a very slow pace. That heat gauge was not into the H area, but almost to the end of that space. Oh. Had you ever noticed this before, Kathy? No.

This was the first time? First time, the only time I noticed it was the day that the head gasket blew, because I am pretty observant and I watch my speed and so forth, and I saw it coming up, and that's the day that the head gasket blew. These guys, can I go back a step? Please. Two steps, I would go back two steps. That's a Texas dance the head gas get blue. Now these guys, can I go back a step? Please.

Two steps, I would go back two steps. That's a Texas dance. Alright. For two thousand bucks, what did these guys do? They did more than the head gas. Yeah, they did some, oh god now... Did they replace the cylinder head? They must have. Yes, they did the cylinder head.

They also did some other things, not like a tuner, but belts that need to be replaced. They said everything is going to be like brand new, perfect, you'll never see us again. No. No, they didn't find the cause, they rather found the effect. Exactly right. And the cause is that the fan is not coming on at the right time, I suspect, and cooling the engine off. That's why it overheats when you're stopped.

Yes. Because there's an electric fan that's supposed to come on, operated by a thermostatic control that's supposed to cool the engine off. So that thing shouldn't get beyond three-quarters and that fan should come on when it gets to three-quarters. So you think it's a fan? I think the fan either is not the fan is not working in my estimation either because the thermal sensor is bad or there's something wrong with the fan or there's a wire disconnected. It could be in any number of things but they'll figure it out and it's

important that they figure it out because when you allow the engine to get hot the gasket gets worked in other words it gets stretched because the head stretches more the hotter the engine gets and when the head stretches and it cools off and contracts you're stretching that gasket and then asking it to go back to its original shape and the more you work it to the limit like that the greater the chances you're gonna break it and all of a sudden it just cracks and that's the end of it it rips I see first of all that head gasket should not have blown either of these times This engine is way too young to have

Circles under the headlights does it need Kathy good luck going yell at these guys Thank you much I love I really thank you for being there because you know even more for women and not to be sexist But I don't trust men with with with jumpsuits that you know I just don't trust them so I'm very grateful for you guys men in jumpsuits You know we're in a jump suit. Oh, yeah No, we do the show naked

Well, my brother wears leopard skin, but I do the show buck naked. See you, Kathy. Kathy, it's a pleasure talking to you. They're gonna miss you on the Lower East Side. They do. They're coming after me now. I got a line. Thanks so much. So long. Bye-bye. I want to live next door to her.

Kathy's great. Not in the same house, just next door. I'll be right back, right after these messages. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit wise.com, T's and C's apply. In college, Mustafa Suleyman started a helpline for young British Muslims. People were just looking to find support

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So as a new administration promises action on the cost of living, taxes, and home prices, The S&P 500 biggest post-election day spike ever. Follow all the big changes and what they mean for you. Make America affordable again. Listen to The Indicator, the daily economics podcast from NPR. All right, since the puzzler is what? What? Listen to The Indicator, the Daily Economics podcast from NPR. All right, since the puzzler is what? What?

Living it up like Don King on vacation at the moment. I don't have a puzzler to answer from last week. But for both of you diehard puzzler fans, we have posted a puzzler from the archives this week at our website, Cartalk.msn.com. So each week this summer, while you should be working, you can instead be pondering one of our classic conundrums. Just another time-wasting service from the good folks here at Car Talk Plaza. In the meantime, you can still call us at 1-800-332-9287.

Hello, you're on Car Talk. This is James from Stovermont. James. James, how are you? Not too bad. What's up? I got a 94 Toyota pickup, two-wheel drive, and when I try to take the front tires off, you need a sledgehammer.

Uh-huh. I talked to one dealer and he said, yep, that's standard procedure. I talked to a different Toyota dealer and he said, never heard of that problem. No, the wheels are just rusted to the disc rotor hubs. They are not. They're not rusted. Once you get them off, it's clean. Well, something's got to be rusted.

Something's stuck. Well, you got any theories? If it's not rust, what do you figure it is? Magnetism. My mechanic and I took it apart one time to check the brakes because they were making a funny noise, but that wasn't it. And he put anti-seize around the edge. Very good. Exactly what I'd recommend. And then when he tried to pull the rims back off again, that same day you still had to

get behind it with a crowbar or a hammer and pry them or knock them off. The same day? Same day. Whoa, that's good. It's almost like the hub is too big for the center of the rim. That's what it sounds like, doesn't it? I put six different rims on the front end and they're all tight. You're done for. I mean, the never-seize is the answer, but I would take and sandpaper the inside of that thing. Yeah. With coarse sandpaper and widen

that out a little bit. Don't forget that center hole doesn't do anything. What determines the position of the wheel on the hub is the lugs. And once you've tightened the wheel nuts down, that center hole makes no difference whatsoever. So I would sand that and make the hole bigger if I could, grease it up and put it together and carry a sledgehammer behind the seat so you can get them off if you've got a flat. That'll be fun. Yeah. Okay. See you, James. Thanks a bunch. Bye bye. 1-800-332-9287. Hello you're on Car Talk. This is Anne. Where you calling from Anne?

I'm calling from Florence, Alabama. Florence, Alabama? You might be more familiar with Florence, Italy. I am. Maybe a little bit. Wait is it Anne with an E on the end or not? No it's not the Royal Anne It's just a regular old Southern Anne Southern Anne has no second name All of us Southern girls have two names and it's you know, we go by Betty Sue or yeah or Leslie Anne Although so what's your other name? Oh, well, we won't talk about that. I go by the second Come on, how are we gonna be friends here? If you're not gonna lie to us? We're going to start on our relationship with a lie. I'm afraid you'll accuse me of driving a Camaro or something. Is it Donna Anne?

No, it's Patsy. Patsy? Either that or I could own a beauty shop, right? Patsy Anne. Oh, I love it. I kind of like it. Yeah, I do too. I think you should use it.

It makes all the difference now. Now I can visualize you. You want to visualize the car now? What kind is it? It's a Forenza. An old-smobile Forenza. It's that little one they made for a little while. Yeah, it means Florence. It does. That's interesting. You live in Florence. That's the Italian word for Florence. Fidenze. It actually says Fidenze.

It's with an E at the end, but it's close enough. They threatened to sue General Motors. for using the name inappropriately. Is that why they quit making them? Yeah. Anyway, it's an 87. Okay, 87 Frenza. Okay, all I want to do is get the car cleaned up. About once every year, I at least try to get my car detailed.

My wife does that once a year when they go in there and chisel off the bananas that have been welded to the floor for the last seven months. Exactly. That's what she defines as detailing. But there's a problem. There's a major problem. What's that? You can't get it detailed if you're constantly dirtying it.

There's some kind of black gummy substance that's blowing out of the ventilating system onto the floor, as the heat would on on your feet and also out of the vents that you know blow into your face there really open election system panel vents and also into the For the defroster. Yeah, and I can't wear anything but black shoes now You see is it is if you were to touch this stuff would it almost feel like a powder but little rubbery No, I tell you you what it's like. It looks like a fiber. It's almost got a little glitter to it.

But then when you take it and rub it between your fingers, it turns to almost a wax, a real gummy wax. And you can't tell that there's any fiber in it at all. I can't make out what the stuff is. Neither can any of the people here in Florence. Sure. make out what stuff is. Neither can any other people here in Florence. Well, well, you may have to send the sample to our laboratory so we can have Murky do his research. He hasn't done anything for two years. What I think it is... Yeah, I think I know what it is too.

It's the blower motor disintegrating. Oh. The blower motor disintegrating oh the blower motor yes that is the electric motor that turns the fan that blows the heat into your car I think the motor itself is disintegrating and pieces of it are winding up getting blown into the passenger compartment I think you're crazy I know I think I'm right wouldn't that be more solid pieces rather than this? No, it depends on what it is. I don't like it.

I don't like it. I love it. Can I tell you what somebody else suggested it might be? Yeah. I took it to a local guy. I'm new to this area, so I picked him out of the yellow pages, you know, and he looks at it and he tells me, no, I don't know what it is, but it's going to cost you $800 to $1000 to fix it. thing now i don't know what it is but it's not a copy eight hundred two thousand off the pick up

uh... it doesn't know what it is but it's not a but it's not a so it's a good time to go with him uh... i like it i don't know what it is with the president of the other cases that if that's what it is and they have been committed to the dealership that i take it to the dealership and i it to the dealership and i take it back to the detail shop and i start

calling their mechanics up there and i get the first mechanic and he looked at it he read the between fingers and he said i don't know what it is i've never seen anything like that like all over another mechanic and he read the between his fingers and he said i don't know what this is i've never seen anything like that i've been in the business twenty years meanwhile the first and can go to a fall

he comes back with an estimate to clean it up copy the extent a telemark or yeah but he gets an estimate of taken that complete dashboard out cleaning out the vietnam put all the fact that together and everything four hundred bucks meanwhile they're still calling in mechanics. Yeah.

They're calling up. So after about the fourth mechanic shows, well actually, I'm not sure he was a mechanic. He was real, real clean. They drove him over in a car. He didn't even have to drive himself. Oh, he may have been... Oh, he may have been Mr. Mechanic. Yeah.

Dr. Mechanic. They were bowing as it came up. Yeah. And he looked yeah and and he looked at it and he said all if the evaporator core yeah and it's coming apart and it's blowing out through the pants and they said how's your air conditioning work it's not going to work I said well so turn air conditioning on it works fine everything seems to work fine yeah just got the

stuff blowing up well he may be right. I like it. I, I, I, it's better than that hair-brained thing I came up with. But, of course, he gave me an estimate to fix it. Do you know how much it was? Oh, I didn't want a thousand bucks. 963 bucks. Oh yeah, sure. So, I just... I have to say that I have never heard of an evaporator deteriorating like this.

Nor have I. Here's my theory. As you know, that heat in the air conditioning stuff underneath there under the dashboard Go in various places. They he can either come out the floor out through the dashboard or up through the the defroster and The way it goes in various directions is there are doors down there opening and closing Here's my theory. Oh I want you to sit down for this Pat. My brother is gonna love this theory. Here's my theory.

I want you to sit down for this, Patrick. My brother is gonna love this theory. He's gonna love it. He's gonna say, geez, why didn't I think of that? I think that in order to make those doors seal tightly, they have around all of them, this stuff right here. Yes, like a foam gasket. Like a foam, you ever buy stuff, electronic stuff, and it's packed in this soft foamy stuff?

Uh huh. That's the stuff that's deteriorating. And that's the stuff that's turning to dust. And that's the stuff that when you roll it between your fingers it gets waxy. That's what it is, and which means that when they go down there to open up these little passageways like the detailing guy wants to do he's gonna find all of these little sealers all falling apart. Silence on my end. Well, yeah, mine too. I'm wondering what would cause them to do that.

Oh, age. Nah, the car's only ten years old. Well, yeah, mine too. I'm wondering what would cause them to do that. Oh, age. Nah, the car's only ten years old. You might find this in your old junk box. This is only ten years old? This is a General Motors product here we're talking about. It's a miracle that it's ten years old. Would it cause it to kind of do it all at one time? Because this is why a star is long ago and now it's just pouring out, you know, everything. Sure. I mean, as soon as it happens, it happens to all of the stuff. I don't like any of the answers, to be perfectly honest, but again, I- You've just never seen anything like this before.

No, never. I mean, I've never heard of an evaporator deteriorating the way this- although this guy that came in on the limo, I mean, he must have been some guy. Were they kissing his ring and all that stuff? They were bowing and backing up from it. Yeah, hey, uh. Here comes John now. John'll know.

Yeah, and John, he just came right out with it. Uh-huh, he says. I would go back to the first guy. You would too. He doesn't know what it is, but it's gonna cost a thousand bucks. Yeah, I think I'd have him do it. Well, he was honest at least. None of these guys knows what it is.

And by authoritatively saying to you, it's gonna be a thousand bucks, they've covered all the bases. No matter what it is, for a thousand bucks they're gonna fix it. I would still go at it in a piecemeal fashion. I would take apart the easiest stuff first and see if that yields an answer Yeah, I agree with that. It's easiest to take out the blower motor and it's easiest then to look around and maybe try to

Vacuum some of the stuff out and maybe trying to see where it's coming from once you've gotten to that point Okay, if it turns out that my brother is right God forbid it would be an amazing thing God forbid. It would be an amazing thing. It really would. And I have to say that in this case, since no one has any idea, there's a very high probability that I'm right. And they will notice when they pull out the blow motor, they'll probably see all of these

little sealers and they'll say, my God, he was right. Well, Patsy and good luck. Okay. I appreciate it guys. Don't move because more calls are coming right up. There are celebrity interview shows and then there's Wild Card. It's a podcast from NPR that the New York Times just named as one of the 10 best of 2024. It's hosted by me, Rachel Martin. I ask guests like Issa Rae and Bo and Yang, revealing questions like what's a place you consider sacred? Has ambition ever led you astray? And I'm

telling you, it is such a good time. Listen to Wild Card wherever you get your podcasts. Donald Trump promised to change Washington, D.C., a place where there's an old saying that personnel is policy. That's why we have created a new podcast called Trump's Terms, where you can follow NPR's coverage of the incoming Trump administration, from cabinet secretaries to political advisors and top military leaders, to understand who they are, what they believe, and how they'll govern. Listen to Trump's Term terms from NPR.

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Dennis Gittinger from who knows where, from the great cyber world sent us the top plays that Shakespeare chose not to publish. I'll just give you a few here. How about Fast Times at Verona High. How about Hamlet 2? Where the hell is everybody? He actually wrote all these, huh? Oh, he did, yeah. He penned them all, and of course. I like Romeo and Steve.

That's good. He didn't think that some of these would have a mass market appeal. No. Well, yeah. Well, I think today, and you know, in retrospect, today, maybe if we can get the manuscripts. Oh, they're out there. But if they're not, someone's working on them right now. I'm discovering them. Okay, now what? Are we going to do the puzzler? Well, this is normally when we introduce the the puzzler well this is normally new puzzle

We introduced a new puzzle, but there is no puzzle this week because I'm sorry we sent the puzzle on a mandatory unpaid leave of absence Oh, we don't call it a vacation Anyone now he's on leave mandatory unpaid unpaid leave of absence yeah Huh anyway if you're dying for a puzzle this, all you have to do is go to the radio section of our website where you'll find a car talk puzzler from the archives. I can hardly wait. I'm gonna do that right now. As soon as we get out of this studio, I'm gonna go and get myself a puzzler on the website.

Geez. Well, we keep the website hopping all summer so that those of you who have to work will have a way to goof off while everyone else is on vacation. Now if you'd like to call us with a question about your... I think we need a vacation. I need a vacation from you, man. Jeez. I'm going to take a mandatory... You're taking a mandatory 8 count.

Go to your corner. Go to your corner. Jeez. I'm gonna bite your ear. 1-800-332-9287. Hello, you're on Car Talk. You're making it snappy. I want to get out of here.

Who is this? This is Anthony from San Jose. Anthony. Anthony. Can we call you Tony or is Anthony preferred? Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit shorter. Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit shorter. Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit shorter. Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit shorter. Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit shorter. Tony is this? This is Anthony from San Jose. Anthony. Can we call you Tony or is Anthony preferred?

Tony is probably shorter so it's a little bit easier. He would have said Tony if he wanted us to call him Tony. Well, Brits use Tony all the time. Tony. Tony's a Brit. Tony's a Brit. How about Tony the Australian? Australian. Yeah. An Australian? From where? Australia maybe. Which end? The

eastern end, Sydney. Sydney? Wow. Yeah. So what's up Anthony? Well the car I've got is a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback. I think you should start with a Paul Hogan joke or something. Oh yeah, no, we won't even touch it. I mean, you had to buy this car. You had to, didn't you? I had to, yeah. It's actually a great car for Australia where we've got long roads, bad conditions, and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, but you don't live in Australia.

No, but I thought I might go to the snow too, so who knows what happens. Sure, aha. I've had it about a year, done 15,000 miles, and the problem I've got is a curious one. When I'm driving at different speeds, different revs, the clutch pedal vibrates very loudly. Really?

The clutch itself is a little bit soft or it doesn't have a nice smooth uptake, if you will. And this- So it's vibrating while you're driving along, it's say 60 miles an hour. You can hear and feel the pedal shaking back and forth because it's feeding back through the cable. That's correct.

Has it done this right from the beginning? Well, that's the interesting part. It's done it, the noise has been there basically right from the beginning. We took it back to the dealer, and as far as I'm aware, they replaced the entire clutch mechanism. The problem went away for a very brief period

of time and when I say brief I mean really brief like 20 miles later I could just hear the vibration starting again and now it's come back so it's... They replaced the disc in the in the crutch cover and the release bearing they did all that stuff? That's what they're telling me yeah really yeah I I would hate to suggest that a dealer would lie well but the chances of of you are having the problem in two clutches is so small that I guess I'm gonna have to say that they lied I mean the other possibility is there is something wrong with the collar that holds the release bearing or the maybe the input shaft

Of the transmission is is running out of true if that were the case it might shake that collar enough Yep, and and trans that's the vibration up through the case and that vibration up through the cable Okay, so you may they may have to go and replace parts of the transmission. And you don't see this vibration when you're sitting at idle and neutral. If you're at a traffic light you don't see this. No, it usually happens at say 2000 RPM or perhaps 3000 RPM. It's got set RPM speeds where it'll be really noticeable the rest of the time that it'll be quiet. I mean if it's true that they really did replace the clutch and everything, if they replaced everything,

then it's probably the transmission. So what should I ask them to do when I head back in? Well, seeing they've already replaced everything, ask them to replace everything else. That they didn't replace the first time. I think they're going to have to take apart the gearbox. Okay. So tell them to go to town on it. Yeah, this will be a challenge for them.

They can play around and replace things. These are big things they have to replace. Lots of labor. Now, were they very reasonable about doing the clutch or did they have to fight with you and was there much gnashing of teeth? They're actually being very nice. No, I mean... They weren't much gnashing of teeth at all. Yeah, and they... nice no I mean I'm patient hate that all it yeah and they have to say they didn't really

cheap out I mean they replaced everything well that's right whatever everything actually is yeah they'll have to replace the transmission next okay and and I tell you I would even though they are allowed to do it I would if they are going to take apart the transmission I would try to lobby hard and strong and long for another transmission. Because I don't think you want them to try to fix this one. Because whatever is wrong with this may not be fixable. And if they do fix it, I suspect you'll have troubles later on in the car's life.

Okay, got it. I appreciate it. Good luck, Anthony. Thanks very much. See you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. You know what it's time for? What? Time to apologize to the San Jose Subaru dealerships? Good luck, Anthony. Thanks very much. See you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Do you know what it's time for? What?

Time to apologize to the San Jose Subaru dealerships? No, no, no! It's time to play Stump the Chumps! It's Stump the Chumps, our chance to see if we were right or wrong and whether any life-threatening injuries resulted. All right, Tommy, who's waiting in the wings ready to make us eat crow today? Today's chump stumper is Heather from Arcata, California, and as you may remember, I don't remember but you might, sweet young Heather brought her 84 Volvo diesel to her trusted

mechanic Helmut. Remember Helmut? Oh, I remember this. And she got a little more than she bargained for. Calgon, take me away. Helmut. Yeah. Well, I hope he's not listening.

Anyway, so Helmut fixed a lot of things in my car. I took it in, I said Helmut, my glove compartment's stuck. And three weeks later and $3,000 later, I in my car. I took it in, I said, how am I, my glove compartment's stuck. And three weeks later, and $3,000 later, I got my car back. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha the glove box, I mean I would have charged only like $2,500. Well, actually it says here that $3,000 was for a new fuel injection system, but then Heather's real troubles began. Her car started to die in here at high altitudes, and with the help of some topographic maps, she figured out that it would shut off right when it reached 4,500 feet above sea level. Good!

And what brilliant answer did we deduce from those facts? Well, none really. We weren't sure exactly what was causing the car to shut off, but we went out on a limb and said that, are you ready for this? Yeah. It had absolutely something to do with the altitude. And she laughed at our faces, right? No, no, no.

She was too nice. In our defense, I should say that Helmut was trying to convince Heather that the altitude had nothing to do with it. Oh. And we told Heather that Helmut was full of it. All right. Let's bring Heather out. Heather! Hi! How are you? I'm fine, thank you. Here's the deal Heather. Is it true that you have not been offered any cash or prizes by members of our staff, National Public Radio or Helmets House of Fuel

Injection in exchange for favorable testimony here today on Stump the Chumps. Is that true? It's very true. Okay, well, tell us what happened. Okay. I took the car back to Helmet after it died the second time. And I was really surprised because he called and told me that my car was ready. And I was shocked.

So I went to pick it up and I walked through the doors and the place looked like it had been deserted. I mean, there was no one there except one little guy that was already blushing behind the counter. And I walked up to him and I said, I'm here to pick up my bottle. And he said, I know. And he handed me the bill and he said, we've fixed the problem. And I looked down at the bill and the bill said $156 or something. And I said, well, this has already cost me an enormous amount of money. So you need to tell me what you've done. You need to convince me further than we've fixed it." And he said, well, we found the problem and this is what it is. You ready?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're ready, sure. The way you're talking, it sounds as though Helmut made some mistake that he fixed. He did. He made a mistake and fixed it and tried to charge me for it. The mistake was that the fuel injector pump has two sensors or solenoids on it one turns the car off if it is for some reason on fire or propelling at its own speed right if you know the emergency shut off yeah and the other changes the timing at 4,500 feet so when they put the new fuel injector pump in,

they switched the wires. Oh. So it shut it off and went out. Hello! If you don't have a boy, oh boy, oh boy. But why did he charge you $156? Well, that's what I said. I go.

The bill was in front of me, and i mean i looked at the night that the absolutely no way i'm paying the bill it's real clear that it was your mistake and he said fine you could you write how much not here and i'm just getting i'm gonna rip the bill up so that i was great and i got home and i added up all the money that it cost me to go to portland because really i live at the level there's no way the car with the problem with the mission itself at the level i had to be a forty five hundred feet short so that i wouldn't that you know

that going from mount hood to portland with his responsibility and let all of the bill but i had paid sure to get it home well i read him and i think that i want to put back all that and i think how much of an i i really think that you should reimburse me for them and i'm not going to try to keep her to emotional damages but i think you you should reimburse me for this. I'm not going to charge you for emotional damages, but I need you to at least pay me the money that I'm out." And he said, I give you nothing.

I give you nothing. I spit on your photo. I sat down and I wrote him a letter and it was a really good letter. And he called me back a day later and he said, I'm going to send you a check. What a sweet guy. It was a real good thing for him to do it was very nice of him and by the way he wasn't Legally required to do this I'm really even though you have sustained costs Because of what he did and mental and I think

I suppose if you went to small claims court you might win. Uh-huh. But it was, he did the right thing. He did do the right thing. I'm gonna drum him out of the court. No. Good luck and say hello to Helmut Forrest. I think he's a nice guy and I think you have a nice relationship with him now. You could at least. Yeah I think so. See you Heather. Thanks so much.. I'm playing stump the jumps here. Bye bye I mean, I don't think we really deserve the dot that I thought that uh, because we didn't figure always said no It was related to the to the altitude, but it was relied that we said it was related to the work that he had done I think we we did but sure but

well That's like saying your car is broken. You know's like saying, your car is broken. You know, I think your car is broken. No, no, no. You're getting money for that? I mean, I had a snowball, the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of figuring that out. Because every time a Volvo diesel comes into our shop, we all run for the bathroom. We only have one toilet. We barely get five guys in there.

Oh, geez. All right, well, it's time to say goodbye to everyone else. You've done exactly what you should be doing in the summer. You've completely wasted an hour listening to car talk. Our esteemed producer is Doug the Subway Fugitive, not a slave to fashion Berman. Our associate producer and Dean of the College of Automusicology is Ken Bozo DuRogge. Man, does he need a haircut, huh? Our assistant producer is Catherine Cathode-Ray. Our engineer is Karen I've already given. And our technical, spiritual and menu advisor is John Bugsy, free lunch milk carton man lawler. Our public opinion pollster is Paul Murky of Murky Research, assisted by statistician Marginal Vera.

Our director of new product repair is Warranty My Foot. Our staff butler from the Car Talk Mumbai Division is Mahatma Ko. Our Document Security Expert from the Island of Jamaica is Euripides Uppman. Our Director of Upward Mobility in Eastern Europe is Zibignu Chrysler. And our Italian Governance is Donna Day Evalern. Donna Day Evalern. Our Avasive Driving Instructor is Vera Brutley. Our Marriage Counselor is Marion Haste. Our evasive driving instructor is Vera Brutley. Our marriage counselor is Marion Haste. Our director of moral support is Hugh DeMann. The chairman of... I'm still working on Hugh DeMann. Hugh DeMann!

Hugh DeMann! I get it. Okay. And our chief counselor from the law firm of Dewey Cheetahman Howe is Hugh Lewis Dewey. Known in the public fountains of Harvard Square as Huey Louie Dewey. Thanks so much for listening. We're Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers. And remember, whatever you do in life, don't do anything like my brother. We'll be back next week. Bye bye. And now, with an important announcement, here is Car Talk Plaza's chief mechanic, Vinnie

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