The Best One Yet - ☎️ HOTLINE: How to save $100K w/ Tori Dunlap

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

In front of a live studio audience in Seattle (presented by Audible), Tori Dunlap helps us answer your Qs about your money. Tori Dunlap (@herfirst100k) is the host of the Financial Feminist podcast & NYT Best-Selling author. Tori is a money expert that guides over 5M followers to feel more financially free. This episode covers…How to frame your goals How to negotiate your salary How everything is negotiable, from hotels to healthcareThe #1 financial trick shot for parentsCrypto…yes or no? Our best-performing investment (and worst)FOR MORE TORI DUNLAP: Financial Feminist podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0b5qzMiw22wHBfe1x9LfaQ?si=d88710845db14aa0 TORI’S SOCIALS:Insta: @herfirst100kTikTok: @herfirst100k WATCH THIS EP. IN VIDEOYouTube: www.youtube.com/@tboypod THANKS TO OUR PRESENTING SPONSOR, AUDIBLE!#sponsored00:00 - intro01:36 - Hello Seattle05:25 - Who is the Financial Feminist 08:00 - Who is “future you”  11:48 - Framing the $100k goal18:45 - Tori’s Financial Trickshots26:15 - Retirement 20129:50 - How to negotiate36:39 - Financing for parents41:00 - Passive income & side hustles44:40 - Crypto…yes or no?  47:50 - Tori’s Money Takeaway49:00 - Buddy Timmy’s Best Fact Yet  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Yeties, we are so excited to bring you the first ever T-boy Hotline live episode presented by Audible. Thank you to Audible for bringing this amazing event to life. With Audible, there's more to imagine when you listen. Besties, keep on listening. Jack, let's hit the mics. Here we go. My dad negotiated every bill we ever had growing up. You can do this. I save thousands of dollars a year doing this. Call if you have cable. But call your cable company. Call your phone. Call your phone company. Call your car insurance. And what my dad does is please steal this. script, he goes, how many years have been a customer with you all? And they'll go, oh, it looks like

10 years, Mr. Dunlap. And he goes, wow, 10 years, that's a long time. How can we make it 11? 50%, that's a fat tip. Tea Boy City on your at list. If you know, you know, because we read to go. We can't wait no more, so just start the show. He's in the crowd. This is Jack. And today's live, first ever, hotline Todd of Teboy, presented by Audible, is the best one yet. If you're listening, I wish you were watching. Because this stage, oh my goodness! Can you sprinkle on some context?

I'm looking at a 20-foot T-boy sign in Slammin'C-Pink right now. I mean, this is like an architectural marvel. This is twice the size of you. This is like two lifts. Do I see, do I see, Yeti teddy bears in T-Boy T-T-Boid T-shirts? There are real Yeti teddy bears. These are based on real Yetis.

We have an ice cream scoop truck. Yes. We have a mocktail bar. Slamin salmon. With custom mocktails in Teaboy vernacular. Also flavored salmon slamming. This is incredible. This is wild. But seriously, Eddie's jumping. This is a Hollywood style set. If you were just listening, the tea in Teaboy is

twice the size of us and Samoan. We are here in Seattle. The land of Microsoft, the land of Starbucks Machiatas, and the land of Baclamar. Jack, I check the data, and 106% of this audience are Costco members. This is actually a Kirkland brand of

stage we're standing on. Oh, actually. Costco reports earnings tomorrow, so that's where everyone's going to be in this. The stock prices become Costco sized up. Yes, yes, as it has. Also, Jack, this is my first time in Seattle. It's not mine. Really? It's the first time I've seen Mount Rainier. Last time it was cloudy. That mountain is gigantic. It's delicious. Also, this is the first time where it's been my first time, but not your first time. True. I beat you to Seattle. You're the traveling. I'm very impressed by that, Jack. Well, this episode is a T-boy hotline. So we're answering your questions. That's the theme. And the number one type of question we get from our audience is about money. It's about personal finance. It's about cash. It's about what do I do with my mulu.

And you know us. We like to sprinkle in our best insights every day into our takeaways. But for this episode, we're dedicating everything to personal finance, investing, money, retirement, because these are subjects that are very important, but also very complicated, could be exciting, but also anxiety-inducing. What you do today, actually what you do right after this show at our post-drink celebration with all of you, actually could have an impact on what you do 50 years from now when it comes to finances. You're going to learn some great insights tonight that can pay dividends for the future. But before we get into that, we want to see some hands.

We want to see some hands. We want to ask you a question. Paul McCartney wrote an entire song about When I'm 64. Yes. Who can picture their 64-year-old selves? and who wants to share it with us? What is your life like at 64? Jack, can we kick things off?

My wife told me she wants a homestead with tons of land and egg-laying chickens. So we can crack her on Friday eggs. That's beautiful. I want my own fleet of E-Mountain bikes, so me and my buddies and my grandkids maybe can bike up the mountain and not get too sweaty. It's very ex-games of you.

Yes, what do we got? Shout it right out. Where are you going to be? What are we here? Have a farm? We want to have a farm over here. Traveling. Traveling.

Fantastic. Where, too? Everywhere. Love that idea. What are you not going to be doing? Worker. Okay, that's the common frame. Now, the reason we open with this question is because it's the first question posed in financial feminist,

which is written by our guest. Our sponsor, Audible, believes listening can expand our imagination, and I agree. That's why I listened to financial feminists with my wife. And when we heard that question, what do you want your life to be like when you're 65? We'd never thought about it. We'd never considered it. And now we have these goals and this dream that we're aligned on, and it's glorious. It's a beautiful feeling.

So we're actually going to bring on the author of that book. But before we do, we want to thank Wondering. We want to thank Audible, and we want to thank our guest. Nick, who is our guest? Our guest today, Jack, is Tori Dunlap. Tori is the Bill Gates of Seattle. She has built up enough financial advice to make a career out of it.

At the age of 22, Tori set a goal of having $100,000 saved in her account. She accomplished that before she was 25. And to make sure we all learned from her journey, she published the whole thing publicly on her blog. As a result, Tori now has 5 million followers across social media. And she's the CEO of Fighters. Financial feminist.

Here's the reality. She's a podcaster. Yes. She's a New York Times bestseller. True. And we got her here tonight. Because if you want to talk money, you got to talk to Tori. So besties and yetis.

Let's give it up T-boy style to Tori Dunlap. Tori. He's going to go over the seat with a little Yeti. Honestly, he's like my emotional support animal, so he's going to be great. Can he sit here the whole time? I think so. Can he ask his permission for us? Is he?

Ask his consent? Do you consent to me on my lap? He said, yes, okay. So everyone gets a plus one. You are a New York Times bestseller. You have the top personal finance podcast. Five million people have clicked follow to learn what it is you're doing

and what smart insights you have. How did you become the financial feminist? The big thing for me was I realized that when I had money, I had options. when I had the ability to leave toxic situations I didn't want to be in anymore, when I had the ability to travel or to donate to causes I believed in or to start a business, everything opened up to me. And that was the feeling I wanted for every single person and specifically every single woman on this planet.

And there was something about financial freedom and financial flexibility that made the rest of my life come together. Everything got easier when I had money. And not only easier, but became more fruitful and more exciting and, you know, was so so crucial to unlocking a lot of other parts of my life. And so I was like, I want this feeling for every single person. So we stole that question about where do you want to be when you're 64 from you? We put our tea boy pop biz twist on it by thinking, hey, Paul McCartney wanted to know where he was when he was 64. Yeah.

So for you, what do you envision when you're 64? Oh, I always joke that I'm going to be like drinking stock. Blanc with lunch and flirting with my much younger Pilates instructor named Luca. Like, 65-year-old me is somehow even cooler than I am now, and I'm like, I can't wait to meet her. But I pose that question to you all because I think, especially if you're younger, you're not thinking about your own retirement. You're not thinking about, you know, 10, 20, 30 years away. It's too hard to realize. And we know from stats that actually younger millennials in Gen Z, the number one reason they're not saving for retirement is because they don't think the world's going to be there by the time they're retiring.

Yeah, that's a disincentive. Totally. Time value of money. You really waited towards the now. And we also have, you know, you have a million other things to think about. You have student loans and you have the cost of living and you just have all of these other goals too. And so I think that when you visualize that it's not just this like far off goal that, is unobtainable or inaccessible, but actually you, current you taking care of future you,

it makes it makes it real. And so, you know, I give the joke of, yeah, I'm adopting dogs in Italy, but like I love the, you know, the asking the audience, like, what is the goal? And so while you're thinking about how do I take care of present me and how do I make sure I'm going on trips and doing cool things, like how do I protect Grandma Tori? How do I protect her? Because I want her to have a really, really great life, not just when she's 30, but when she's 65 and 72 and 80 and beyond. And making moves today can make that goal of reality. Yeah. And protecting what she needs and what she wants. I think that, yeah, it's just so important to not only think and plan about right now, but also plan for the future and realize that is an actual thing, not just something that will eventually happen. Well, first of all, save the date because we'd like to interview Grandma Tori.

in 30 years. Our podcast still existing. Same time, same place, everybody. Does that work for everybody in the audience? Okay, great. This is the beginning of a romantic comedy. We're all going to be back here in 35 years before the train departs. Yes.

And if you're not here at the time, I'll be holding a red rose in my hand. So you know what's me. Can I call this Rom-Cap, romantic capitalism? We're big believers in that as a genre. Perfect. That's a story for another pod, though. That sounds so Hunger Games. Like, so.

Not the Capitol. Yes, really. So you mentioned goals and plans multiple times already. And when I listened to your audiobook, you said something that stuck with both my wife and me. A goal without a plan is just a wish. And anyone can wish. And like I've been wishing since I was a kid, but I'm not a kid anymore. Yeah.

And it's so funny when you talk about financial goals because Nick and I both asked each other, what are our financial goals? You know what our answer was? We'd like to have more money next year than this year. Yeah, we'd like a little more money than last year. That's not our life goal. Like we're not motivated by money. It's just that if you asked our financial goal,

it's, yeah, more money next year compared to this year. Which is so uninspiring. Yes. Like, I so much prefer to think about my life when I'm 65 and that fleet of e-mountain bikes. Like, that's way more exciting to work towards. And my wife and I, you know, we have the budget brunches once a month. Yes, yes, yes.

But we check in on all our finances and we look at all our accounts and we see, like, are we going in the right direction and the wrong direction? Yeah. But it's felt a little empty at the end because, like, yeah, right direction, but direction to where? So it's a great quote. We loved it in your title when we listened to it. Create a goal because a goal without a plan is just a wish. So how do you start with a goal to become that grandmatory?

Yeah, so I will say, I did not come up with that quote. I did use it for the book. I'm going to use your example and I'm going to poll the audience. How many of you have said, I want to be better with money? Pretty much everybody, right? Or I'm going to save more money this year. That's not quantifiable, y'all. like and the same thing is like I want more money the next year that's a little better right because at least it's more specific yes but I do hear the like I want to get better with money you can have an entire year go by and then convince yourself okay I saved one dollar so I guess I'm better with money and a lot of us do this we're motivated goal oriented people but we just think especially with money because it's taboo and you don't want to think about it and it feels scary you're like okay this is the year I'm going to get my stuff together this is the year. And then what happens is you don't have a plan to get there. So I'm big on actionable things.

And if you want to take notes, pull out your phone. We're going to do this. Okay. Three things with your goals. I need you to be specific. So not just do I want to save money. How much do you want to save? For me, it was 100K. That was the goal. I want to save 100K. I want to save $100,000. The second thing is it needs to be timely. By the end of this year, I want to pay off my debt in three years. For me, it was I want to save 100K by the day I turn before I turned 26. So I can save 100K at 25 and it still counts. Like that was that was the joke. And then I need you to put a mission or a why behind it because especially with financial goals, what will happen is you get started paying off your debt or you get started saving your emergency funder. You get started saving for

your retirement. And then something happens. You get laid off. Somebody invites you on this really cool trip to Cabo and you're like, suddenly I have money to go spend on that. And like you end up self-sabotaging. You have to give yourself a reason to care. And especially when things get hard, you have to remind yourself, why am I doing this? So this is where the visualization piece comes in as well. So for me, it was I want to save 100K specific at 25, timely, so that I can quit my job and run my company full time. Because that's what I really wanted to do. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to impact women. Like, that's what I wanted to do. I want to, to save $2,000 to go to Japan next year so I can eat authentic ramen, right? Like make it something

you can taste or smell, right? Like something that feels very visceral. And so I think that's how we get one step closer to actually achieving our goals as opposed to just, oh, I'm going to be better with money. And then having no backup plan to that. I also feel like there's then a more fulfillment when you accomplish it. Like the ramen does taste better when it was part of a goal. They actually have studies that show that the anticipation of the thing is often better than the thing itself. That's why, you know, the two weeks leading up to, you know, yeah, the Italian vacation, you're like, oh, my God, I just want to be on a beach. Right. Like that, and then you get to the beach and it's still fun, but like the actual anticipation of the thing is more exciting. Yes.

And then you also get to validate yourself. You're like, hell, yes, I did this thing. It wasn't just this, you know, goal I set. And then you also feel like crap later, right? If you just say, I'm going to be better with money. And then, you know, December 31st rolls around and you're like, I didn't get any better with money this year. It wasn't specific. You need to know either I hit this thing or I didn't hit this thing. And also I'll say one last thing. I remember setting my 100 K goal and literally my dad called me. And he's like, so you set this goal and you've announced it publicly. What happens if you don't hit it? And this is my parents. Like what happens if you don't do it? And I was like, okay, then I have 80K at 25. Like I have 70K. Okay, it's still great.

Like, I purposely set goals that feel a little scary because they're not goals if you're like, yeah, that's a Tuesday. Yeah. That's not a goal. That's just a normal day. This also reminds me of something Jack and I have been doing when we're doing business planning. Like when we're planning for 20, 25 right now. And one thing Jack and I say is, if it's just in your head, then it's not going to happen. Great studies on how when you actually write down the goal, it increases the chance of you accomplishing it by 42%.

Yeah. So one thing Jack and I like to think about is, you know, writing it down, telling a friend, and putting it on your calendar. Because if you write it down, you're more likely to do it. If you tell a friend, there's a little bit of that peer pressure to actually do it. And if you put it on your calendar, when that flashes up, you're like, oh, yeah, I got to get on that. We're about to launch something that we've been talking about for three years. Yes, we have. And when you wrote it in a Google Doc and sent it to me, everything changed.

It was incredible. I took the Google Doc, I turned it into a deck. You started typing. And then it changed even more. And each step came closer and closer to fruition. We can't tell you what that is right now. What a team. But we can't tell you we're really excited.

And it was three years and it began with us writing it down. Can I give you one last hack too before we move on? Write your goals down as if they've already happened. Oh, like the framing of them. That is my favorite hack. Can you give us an example of how that sounds? Does anybody watch the Try Guys? Does anybody know who the Try Guys?

Thank you. Thank God somebody. Okay. Try Guys are my favorite. I love them. I've seen every video multiple times. and way back when I started watching them in like 2018, 2019. I'm sorry, what are they?

The tri-guet? They're like a YouTube. Oh, the tri-guess. Yeah. 8 million followers. They had a fun couch controversy like two years ago, but we don't talk about that. Second try. Yes, second try.

LLC. Thank you. Yeah. So I was watching them. I was just such a fan and I was like, I want to be on the show. Like, I want to collab with them. And so rather than saying, you know, okay, my even the goal of example I gave, okay, I'm going to work with the try guys by this year.

I literally said in my journal, I, I would write, I loved working with the Try Guys. It was such a great experience. For me, with my book, being a New York Times best selling author was life-changing. Wow. Before it had happened, before I even had a book, before I knew how I was going to get there. And I will say every goal I've ever done that, too, has worked. Like, I've achieved it.

So not just writing down, reframing it. It's Anderson-Pock. It's lyric. If I know I can get it, then I've already had it. We'll take it. It works great. So we'd actually love another hack from you. Nick and I, according to term, financial trick shots,

these are low or no-cost moves you can make that will improve your financial situation. Nick, it actually originated with fancy takeout. Yeah, fancy takeout. When is your original trick-out? Financial trick-shot. The food can be fantastic, but if you're eating it out of a plastic container, that's not glamorous. Doesn't last?

The condensation on the top of the lid. So Nick takes his takeout and he puts it onto his finest china, lights a candle, and has a date night. It's wonderful. Yeah, it's a low. cost investment with a high ROI because that dinner then feels like you're on your honeymoon because you have the wedding chine out even though you're just having like a few noodles. You're dating yourself.

Yes, it's a beautiful way. That's really important self-care. Everybody, date yourself. So Jack and I are always looking for like financial trick shots out there. When it comes to investing or personal finance, what are some of your best ones? Oh, gosh, I have so many. Okay, first one, I need you to automate everything you possibly can in your financial life. I think there's this misconception that you're going to get a gold source.

star if you make things harder than they have to be. You know, like, oh, I've got to really earn it. Like, I do this when I, like, have a meeting next week and I don't write it down. I'm like, I should remember it. I don't remember it ever. And then I, you know, beat myself up because I show up late to the meeting. It's just like, write it down. Automate everything you possibly can.

So a lot of us know we can automate our bills. You can automate your savings. You can set up an automatic transfer from your checking account to your savings account to happen whenever you want. Or a lot of, if you're like a typical 9 to 5, or you can set up automatic transfers. to have a portion of your paycheck go immediately into your savings. Before you even see it. Right.

And it's called paying yourself first in the industry, but it allows you to do the hard thing first. Too many people wait to the end of the month to start saving or investing, and then they don't have any money left over, right? And then they beat those selves up about that. So like, do the hard thing first, take care of that so that you know any money that's left over is either expenses for your life or fun stuff, right?

So you can automate your investments. You can automate your savings. The second one I hear, speaking of like, get a gold star because you think it'll be better. I don't pick hot stocks. Like, I don't do that. I have Timothy Shalloway, YouTube compilations to watch. Like, I got better things to do with my life. Any professional stock picker is statistically not great at their job. Like, it's very, very difficult to pick a hot stock and write it to the moon. I invest in like VTI, which is a total stock market index fund, and index funds are groups of stocks.

So rather than trying to pick the hot stock, I've picked the hot stock every single time because I've just set it and forget it. It's in that smoothie of an ETF investment. Yeah, well, and it is well diversified, and it takes the guesswork out. And it also, like, every time I have money to invest, I'm not like racking my brain, spending six hours researching, like, what is Jim Kramer telling me to do today? You know? I have to live.

Yeah, Jim Primer. So I think that for me, like, that was something my dad taught me, and that was something that, like, truly has made a difference in my investing journey and has turned me into a millionaire. I spend less than, like, two hours, probably every six months on my investing strategy, because it's literally just, I'm just plug in and playing. And it's automatic, too. It's low cost because you're not doing all that research. No. And it's higher return, literally. Yep.

And your fees are, you know, 0.03% for something like VTI. You know what we should get Tori's opinion on? the story we just covered on the pot, the other financial trick shot on the signing bonus. Our latest financial trick shot. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We know you're a negotiator. And one financial trick shot, Nick and I have always practiced, is if you ever get offered a job, ask for a little more before you accept. The signing bonus is having a moment right now.

Like, get the stats on this. The number of companies offering signing bonuses has doubled in the last five years. Interesting. Because if someone's making. making the move to offer you a job, they're committed to you. And they're not offering you the most they're willing to pay. That's almost a guarantee. True, true. So ask for a little more because they have a little more budget that they'll give you a if you ask for it. And that's the thing that no one realizes is that when you get the job offer, the leverage has totally shifted. It's no longer with the employer.

It's now with you because they've committed all this to you and they want to hire you. So something like 70% of signing bonuses come from someone requesting it after they got the offer. So any advice on how to do that request? Oh my gosh. I could give you an hour long workshop right now. We do have a chapter in the book, shameless plug. But I will give you quick, quick and dirty. Okay, a couple things.

One, you're exactly right. You have more leverage when you are applying for jobs than you will ever have again at your entire tenure at that company. Wow. Yeah. So if you're not negotiating then, you're going to have a way harder time after that. I know the stats, especially for women,

women who do not negotiate lose a million dollars over the course of their lifetime compared to women who do. How does it add up to a million dollars? Compound interest. Right, because think about if you're investing part of that money, the gains over your lifetime, but also think about, okay, if you got offered 50K and you negotiated up to 55,

well, the next job you're going to be at 65, as opposed to 57. And the next job you're at 70 as opposed to 60, You can see how even your earning history goes up as you progress in your career. It anchors you lower and lower than when you could have been. Totally. So when it comes to negotiating, you're exactly right. Ask for more money than you want or then you've realized is your market rate.

So you're going to go out and do your research. You're not only go on like a glass door, but you're also going to like talk to people. Also shout out pay scale because they're a Seattle based company. They're great. But also like have conversations with people. talk to recruiters that you know, talk to people in your industry, right? My background was in marketing. I'd go to other marketers and be like, hey, based on this job description as well as the experience you know I bring to the table, what should I be asking for? Get a range. If that range, again, let's say easy math is 60 to 70 and the job's trying to offer you 45 or something, you're going to say, you know, thank you so much for this offer. This is fantastic. I'm really looking forward to working with you. You're going to start there. And you're going to say to be compensated fairly, I'm looking for a range of, you're not going to give the range that you found because that's where you're trying to land. You're going to ask for 60 to 70 as opposed to 50 to 60 because if they're at 45 and you ask for

50, well, you're going to be at like 47, right? But if they're offering you 45 and you ask for 60 to 70, well, now you're going to be at 55, 58, which is right where we want to be. If they will not budge, if they will not negotiate with you, there are way more things you can negotiate besides salary. And I have a whole list in my book. PTO, health benefits, a signing bonus, a relocation bonus, remote work, a travel stip. Like, there's so many other things that you can negotiate because we're not just talking about salary. We're talking about a total compensation package here. Yeah, you're saying it's not just a signing bonus. It's a signing perk. And the moment to ask is have to get the job offer. And it's a financial trick shot because the cost of asking is basically just like

the awkwardness of asking. Truly. And I think especially for women, because I talk to so many women, they feel, oh, they're going to rescind my offer, they're going to be mad at me, they're going to view me as ungrateful. And it's like, if they rescind your offer, they just did you a huge favor. Because they are not interested in talking about salary. They're not going to talk to you about your worth during your entire tenure of employment there. If they're not willing to have a tough conversation with you that feels a little uncomfortable, like, they're not going to have tough conversations with you ever again. I want to talk about tax advantage accounts, which has the worst branding in front of them. We've been trying to rebrand tax

advantage account since like 2019. Tax advantage accounts, in my opinion, are tricks to legally not pay taxes. In fact, it's so legal the government wants you to do it. We've been coming up a ways we're trying to describe them as like a tax advantage account is like a fast pass at Disney

World. It lets you... You're speaking my language. The line. Disneyland is my favorite place on Earth. It's my worst quality but I absolutely love it. It's like an invisibility cloak from paying taxes. That's the other way I've been working with. Can you tell us a little bit Actually, can you describe tax advantage accounts in a way that they're exciting because we think they are?

I think the way I describe it is the government is incentivizing you to save for your own retirement by offering you tax breaks. And they're dangling a carrot in front of you and they're like, hey, if you save some of your own money, we will give you a little bit of a benefit so that basically we don't have to pay for you as much when you retire. Like really, that's what they're doing. That's a good way to put it. So this is the only time where it feels like we get any tax breaks as like normal individuals. So I think that I highly advantage or I highly encourage everybody to take advantage of them. And what we're talking about when we're talking about tax advantage accounts is retirement accounts typically. So 401ks, Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs, even HSAs.

These are tax advantage accounts, usually for retirement where the government's being like, here, here you go. You can have this little, little tiny snack if you contribute a little bit of money. Yeah, you're going to have expenses when you turn 60. 100%. And you can save for them now. and then pay for them when you're 60. But you're going to pay taxes on that unless you put it in a tax-advantged account. Yeah.

So, you know, that's why these accounts exist because, who knows if Social Security will be around when, you know, we're all retiring. And it's also, again, our way of protecting 65-year-old us and either paying less taxes now or less taxes when you do take that money out. So, yeah, 401Ks, I like just really simplifying it for folks in the room who, like, have heard that but don't know exactly what that means. You cannot open a 401k if you are a nine to fiver unless your employer offers it. So it is an employer benefit that you want to look for when we're negotiating. As of this recording today, it's $23,000 a year for anybody over or under

55 years old. And so you can contribute anything up to that amount, which is incredibly, I mean, it's like the most generous thing our government's done, unfortunately. But like it's $23,000. And so if you have a traditional 401K, that means that you are paying the tax later versus a Roth 401K or a Roth IRA means you pay the tax now so you can take it out tax free. I personally like the Roth, either 401k or IRA for a couple reasons. One, it's like giving 65-year-old me a little gift. It's like, hey, here take this money, go with Hot Luca on a cool trip, like have fun, right? Second thing is I have no idea what the hell taxes are going to be when we're set to retire, right? It could be better.

It could be hunger games, right? and it probably will be Hunger Games. And also, it's more security knowing that, like, I know what's going on right now. So I can just take care of this. And then IRAs, again, comes in two flavors, traditional or Roth. Traditional means that you're paying the tax later. Roth means you're paying the tax now. And $7,000 a year right now.

The government's giving us a tax break. That's so easy. Like, we know that corporations and rich people love tax breaks. This is one available to everyone. Of course I want a tax break. It needs the rebrand. Disney's got to get on this thing. I don't know how to make it sexy, though.

I really don't. It's hard. The four initials, 401K, don't help. It helps. It comes from the tax code. And my favorite is the TikTok jokes where it's like, 401K, you want me to run how far? Thank you.

Thank you. Pity laugh. I really appreciate it. You could have taken full credit for that one, I got to give credit where credits do. But, you know, I just love that. 401K, I have to run how far? Can we talk about another kind of range of

uncomfortable conversations because we went from the salary negotiation. As comfortable as this conversation. Yeah, yeah. I want Tori, I mean, she makes uncomfortable things comfortable. She does. That's nice. We heard in financial feminists that from an early age, you learned from your father about things being negotiable.

Oh, yeah. Dean Dunlap is the master negotiator. What are some things that you negotiate? Because Jack and I are of the opinion that everything on a daily business. basis is essentially negotiable. There's something every day that you could negotiate. Like actually, our hotel where we're staying here. Oh, you took mine.

Go ahead. No, go ahead. You run with it. Own it. Own it. Own it. All right. I'll take it.

You know, we could have just taken that rate. We also could have taken like the Tripit Fizer discount rate. But instead we called the hotel and said, hey, we're actually booking rooms for a whole team. We got a group here. What can you do for that? And they give us a rate that was off the books. That was negotiable.

And that was pretty satisfying. And then when you show up to the hotel, what you do is you go, hey, I'm so excited to be here. How are you doing? You always want to ask how they're doing, both because you're a kind, nice person and also you're more likely to get what you want if you're nice. And then you go, hey, are there any complimentary upgrades available? Eight, thank you again. That was so easy.

Eight times out of ten, maybe even nine. Oh, they don't know who I am, right? Because that's the thing is. You know, you have following on Instagram. They have no idea who I am. I just go, do you have any complimentary upgrades available? They want to make your day better. It's just a random person, right, doing their job.

And if they can give you an extra room, they know they're not going to sell it that night, most likely. So the amount of room upgrades I've got, like, corner sweets. Like, it's just, it's so easy. I know you like fried chicken. Thank you. I was at a Michigan football game, and I got food for all my brothers. And I only have two hands. And so I got chicken fingers with French fries.

And I said, this is for all my brothers. Can I have a few more chicken fingers? Boom. You're even braver than me. Wow. Right? Yeah. Also, like, you know, there's plenty of times we've been on an airplane and like, do they even have like, you know, screens on the back of your, I guess on international flights? I'm like, what decade am I in? But like, if something doesn't go right, if you're like, C doesn't recline or like your bags were lost, they'll just give you airline miles. Like, just ask them. Like, hey, I want to have a great experience today. How can you help make that happen? This is usually Jack's role, but I just want to whip up a quick takeaway here. It sounds like the first rule to negotiating is ask.

Oh, is ask. And there's plenty of times where they're like, no, I'm missed on that, but you don't have any complimentary room upgrades. And then I'm like, okay, no worries. Like, I can either sit there and go, oh, no, like, what have I done? Or it's just like, you know what it is. And it's less about getting what I want and it's more building the muscle of hearing no. Okay, yeah. Right?

It's more like when I was single, I would go up to men and ask them out. Because it was like, it wasn't about whether they said yes or not. It was about me getting up the courage to do something scary. And it's the same thing with negotiating. And my dad negotiated every bill. we ever had growing up. You can do this. I save thousands of dollars a year doing this. Call if you have cable, but call your cable company, call your phone, call your phone company, call your car insurance. And what my dad does, please steal this script. He goes, how many years

have been a customer with you all? And they'll go, oh, it looks like 10 years, Mr. Dunlap. And he goes, wow, 10 years, that's a long time. How can we make it 11? And it works like a charm. And he also, when he's on the phone, he goes immediately to the canceled department. Like when it's like, yes, thank you. When it's like, you know, press one. If you want a representative, press two. If you want to cancel, he's like two immediately.

Because it gets you to the people who can actually make decisions. Yeah, true. And you're right. It is not just the little hotel of Grimney wanted because Jack really wanted that view of Puget Sound, which he did. and he is going to get. Yay. It's also health insurance. You can call your health insurance and say, this bill, the other day we just said, the bill was

like really big. Like getting anything done in California is expensive. That's wild. I got an emergency room visit bill slash by $1,000. Yeah. Because I asked it. It was wild. Health care is a whole other thing.

We have, again, a script in the book, too, that talks about negotiating medical bills because especially if they're going to ask you if it's a bigger bill and they want to put you on a payment plan and you can pay for it in full. Like, I remember when I got my wisdom teeth out and it was kind of, me like $1,400. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so much money. And they're like, okay, well, we can do, you know, a 12-month payment plan. But they don't want me to hypothetically get to month six and not be able to pay anymore.

So I would, you know, you can say something like, hey, I'll give you $1,200 or $1,000 right now and I'll just pay it in full. And they'll usually take you up on that. They want to just get the deal done. Yeah, because I'd rather get guaranteed money right now. And if that doesn't work, you just say, I'm Tori's dad. I just stick my dad on them and see what happens. Besties, it's time for us to tell you more.

about our presenting sponsor, Audible. Because Jack and I don't just consume content. We chug content. We're commuting to the studio, weekend road trips, waiting in line for anything. Our go-to app during all those times, it's Audible. Why? One reason is to make sure that our show is the best one yet. We've got to find new insights, information, and insider secrets that we can whip into our

takeaways. So we listen to podcasts, audiobooks, and other titles, and we do it on Audible. We're listening to memoirs, histories, biographies, autobiography. My epigraphies. Our audible shelf is stacked. All right, Jack, I just discovered new title on Audible I listened to on the way to this show called The Story of Jay-Z. Actually, it's the story of Jay-Z. You told me about it. It's how the rapper went from street corner to corner office. It's called Empire State of Mind, and I will never listen to another Jay-Z lyric again in the same way after hearing this.

Allow me to reintroduce my audiobook. It's about Jay-Z's business. Yeah, you listen to a lot of Jay-Z already, Yetis. But now you'll really listen after listening to this audio. The Audible title. Another thing I love about Audible, the narrators. The JZ one doesn't have JZ as the narrator, but the man whose voice it is, you played it for me? Voice of an Angel. Classic voice of an angel. Now, I'll also listen to Trevor Noah's audiobook, narrated by Trevor Noah, and that one is just special, because he actually hears his voice.

Coming from the horse's mouth. Yeties, as an Audible member, you can choose one bestseller or new release every month, plus listen all you want to thousands of included titles. If you think T-Boy is truly the best one yet, our listening on Audible had something to do with it. is giving our listeners a very special offer. New members can get their first audiobook free when they sign up for a free 30-day trial. Visit audible.com slash T-boy or text T-boy to 500-500.

That's audible.com slash T-boy or text T-boy to 500-500. Let's get back to the show. Now, it wouldn't be T-Boy hotline if we didn't take questions from the Yetis and the Busties. We have a few great ones. And these aren't voicemails.

These are the live, in-person, real Yetis who are in the audience with us right now. I think Ty's going to kick it off for us. Hey, Ty from Seattle, big fan of the show, both of your shows. My wife and I are new parents. We have a six-week-old at home. Congratulations. Our second date night, it's great.

How would you suggest us as new parents help prepare her for her life ahead of her? And then as she gets older, help her on her path to financial literacy. Ty, what's your new baby's name again? Max. Max? Max. Maxine. Maxine.

Guys. You call your son. I know that's what we call her a son. All right, guys, first of all, quick round of applause for the new parents in the audience on their second date night out. So I am a huge, I think there's glory in the stock market for many reasons. I mean, we cover it on our show all the time. One of the first things I like to do as a gift for my brothers and even for Nick, I kicked off a $529 savings account. on behalf of Nick's son.

And I hooked Nick son up with a little pair of baby Nike's and one single share of Nike stock. Jack and I now call this tradition the birthday business gift. Nick hooked my son up with Hasbro because he's big Hot Wheels guy. I bought $100 worth his shares of Mattel for your son. And then for the Podson, I bought $100 worth of Disney because he loves Toy Story. Oh, yeah, Toy Story BuzzLay.

Yeah, that was there. Luca. Hey, can you tell us about... I just should point out, though, you know, the two stocks I bought your sons are up, and Nike stock has been down... Since I bought it for you, I know. For Maxi's entire life.

And I might take the loss for tax reasons for Maxi, but Jack, if you could take better stocks for our son, that would be good. Yeah, I think 529s are great. I think, obviously, this is a massive privilege position, but I was really lucky to have, you know, parents and family who always bought me gifts, you know, at Christmas and birthdays. And it got to the point where I remember as a kid, I was like playing with one or two and it just got to be too much. And it's like if you can be intentional with, you know, folks in your life who are, you know, giving gifts and want to celebrate.

Yeah, 529. I always do the fun gift, exactly what you guys are talking about, actually. I do the fun gift and then I do the practical gift. So I remember I had a friend who was like, you know, turning 16 and I was like, okay, I'm going to give you. you your first investment for a Raphaira, and I'm also going to get you Sephora, right? Like, I'm going to get you the two things you really like. I will also say very practical advice, but not necessarily, like, you know, strictly about money. Please educate her about money. That is the best gift you can give her because that was the gift my parents gave me. And like, I wouldn't be standing here or sitting here. I wouldn't be sitting here with you had I not have the privilege of

a financial education for my parents. And we see, unfortunately, if you do get a financial education, it's usually for sons. It's usually for boys. It's not in the same way for girls. So educate her about money. Teach her about investing. Teach her about as she gets older how to use money as a tool to build the life that she wants to. And that's honestly, in addition to the practical 529 advice, that's the best gift you can give her. I should point out that our son, Max, he can't speak yet, but Jackie has told me that he's interested in Vindia stock. So maybe second birthday gift. How about a fractional share? You know, I think he mouthed out whole share.

And Berkshire for year three. You're on it. Ty, the reason we got him Disney Plus is because he does love cars. Like, Lightning McQueen is his deity. And I want to show him as he gets old enough that he actually owns part of the company that produced that film. And I want to show him that the value of that ownership can grow and pay dividends. And that's going to be my, like, kind of en route. to teaching him a little bit about.

So I'm typically not an individual stock guy, but I think there's value to them and sort of making an emotional, tangible understanding to what this whole stock ownership thing is. Yeah, you own a part of a company, and that's very powerful. And I think, yeah, we were talking about visualization this whole time that allows you to, like,

yeah, I own the thing that I watch or consume or like. Let's hit our second T-boy hotline question. Who we got, Rachel? Hey, this is Ken from Seattle as well, big fan. also parents. Question, when is it the right time to build multiple sources of income versus focusing on one job of business? Multiple sources of income.

When is the right time? Thank you guys so much for being Yetis and for coming out on this date night together, by the way. How about an applause for kin? So Jack and I have thought of this in the context of side hustles, typically. We started our business as a side hustle, and it led to becoming a second source of income. come while we were running a newsletter in secret while working at banks in New York.

So it was a risky side hustle, but it was a side hustle that started generating income and we eventually came clean on it. But one way we thought about when to start it was kind of when we thought it would be sustainable. And for us, that was this like kind of one three six rule we have about side hustles. If you're still thinking about that new business idea after one day, commit to it. If you're working on it after three months, you should probably launch it. And after six months, it's time to leave your job and turn that side hustle into a real hustle. But that's how Jack and I sometimes thought of when to do a side hustle and when to commit to it. First second, the second source of income I got was our side hustle.

The third was Airbnb in my place once I had my own apartment. Oh, nice. Yeah. Once I was no longer your roommate. And I could sort of do an Airbnb. Yeah, I was kind of like an Airbnb co-buddy in your apartment. Do you have any advice on second sources of income? Yeah, I think that side hustles, it was the same story for me. Her first 100K was the side hustle and when I felt like it was in a good enough position to take it full time, but I waited a lot longer than six months.

It was a couple of years. I think, you know, you asked when is the best time to do that. I mean, honestly, like now, yesterday, but now the other thing is that a lot of people don't realize that like second sources of income can be like the interest from your high yield savings account. Like, that's income. It's taxed as income. So it may as well, like, it's income. And that's completely passive. You're not doing anything except moving your money out of a account that's getting,

you know, 0.3% interest into something that's getting four or five. Like that's very powerful. That's an additional source of income. And I would also say, you know, if you're wholly reliant on one source of income, as much as it is important to, you know, focus on something and to be able to build your career and negotiate, it's also you're setting yourself up for a lot of volatility. If you get your hours cut, if you get laid off, if something happens to that primary source of income, there's not a lot of other options for you. So diversifying that income, I think,

is really important. Tori, this is why Jack and I have been following you for a while and while we have so much listening to your advice, is that you cut through so much to get at the simplicity. Jack and I just described launching a side hustle while we're out of our bank job, second source of income. And you're like, yeah, high yield savings account. That is way easier. No, it's also, though, I just want to give people flexibility because there is, you know, there's a lot of privilege in me starting a side hustle. You know, you have to have a lot the time to do that. You have to have a lot of, you know, that's, all of us work really hard and to think, like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have a second job now. Side hustle is a word that we use, you know,

as people who don't have to have second jobs in order to survive. Yes. Right. So side hustle, I think is the way that you potentially, you know, follow your passion or figure out, you know, if you want to be an entrepreneur. But if you don't want to be an entrepreneur, there's other ways that you can, you know, increase the sources of income that you have. Jack, should we hear a third live hotline question. Let's do it. Let's do it. My name is Rachel and I'm from Phoenix but living here in Seattle now. While the crypto business is doing just okay, how do you see it impacting the movement to decentralized financial services or do you see decentralized finance as kind of just a fad? Okay, crypto question. But first of all, Rachel, the hat looks awesome. So cool you're wearing a

T-boy hat. A shout out and a round of applause for Rachel for coming. up here. And with a great question. Rachel, predicting what's going to happen with crypto is, to me, a total fool's errand. Not worth it. I think what we can tell you is what Nick and I have done personally. At the end

of the show, you've heard of say, we own a Bitcoin. Yeah, a Bitcoin named Ben. Ben isn't here with us tonight, but he's kind of always around. And we have some Ethereum named Ethel. So we only invested, Nick and me individually, in crypto money that we were willing to completely.

lose because it is so risky and so volatile. We said literally, if this goes to zero, are we okay with them? We said, yeah, that amount of money. If we lost that, that's okay. At the same time, the Winklevoss twins say Bitcoin's going to a million dollars. And if that does happen, we don't want to miss out on that. No, we don't. Full disclosure. So we kind of call it our suckers insurance. Our investments in Bitcoin and Ethereum, which are relatively small. If they go to zero, we're okay with that. But if it does go somewhere, we have some in the game so we can be a part of that. And for that reason, we call it our suckers insurance policy.

I had to grab the Yeti for this because anything, we talk about crypto. I'm just like, I don't know. Tori is clutching for everyone listening. I am like, Jetty doll. You winced when I said Winklevoss. I honestly did. It was a visceral shutter. I don't like crypto.

I mean, you can, hopefully I'm not, you know, you're playing this in five years being like, but I think it's a total scam. I completely agree, though, from my financial expert standpoint, any speculative investment, whether that's crypto, I invest in art because I like to feel fancy, and I own like a dot on a Warhol painting, and it makes me feel sophisticated. But I don't put more than 5% of my total portfolio in that,

because to your point, if it is a scam or if it doesn't end up going a million dollars, you don't want to put all of your eggs in one basket. And that's true for anything in personal finance. I don't want you putting all of your eggs in one basket, right? Just like you shouldn't keep all of your money in a checking account or all of your money in the stock market, right? So I think that if you're going to invest in anything, understand the level of risk that

you're willing to take, especially with something that's speculative, don't put more than 5% in. And I completely agree that trying to anticipate what's going to happen is just we can't do it. Even as experts, we can't do it. No, we can't. Ben the Bitcoin, he's kind of all over the place. Rachel, thank you very much for the question. So, Tori, this has been a wonderful interview.

Thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me. At the end of every one of our shows, we like to whip up the takeaways. Yes, we do. So, Tori, we got to ask you, what's the takeaway on Tori Dunlap and the financial feminist and everything on money for all of our Yeties and besties right here in person? Money means options.

It means choices. It means flexibility. money is not a morally corrupt thing. You can pursue money and pursue wealth to pursue options. It's not morally good or morally bad. It's neutral. And I want to see all of you in this room have enough money to be able to build the life that you want,

to be able to take care of your family, and to be able to use it as a tool to do all of those things. Thank you so much. Everybody give it up for Tori Dom Laugh. So same time 30 years from now, Grandma Tori and us. We're still gonna be doing the show. Same stage.

But Jack, we haven't fully done the show yet. Because in addition to having this wonderful stage with the giant emblem that is four times our size behind us, the TBOY, I gotta ask, is it time for the best fact yet? I think our buddy Timmy sent in. Our buddy Timmy did send in the best fact yet. Jack, you want to whip it up for us? So according to a fidelity analysis of 5 million investors

over a 10-year period ending in 2021. Women actually enjoyed better returns in the stock market than men do. Yeah, that's true. Now, women invest in the stock market less as a percentage of the population than men do, but maybe that'll change after you hear this. Women investing in the stock market in this study enjoyed a 0.4% per year better return than the men did. And Jack and I can attest this as two former men in finance

who rounded up are six foot and don't have blue eyes. Because we've had our SPAC era, we've all been through that, and those stocks have not performed as well. We've tried a lot of different things. We've traded options. This is Jack. I still own stock of Peloton. This is Nick. I still in stock of Pellotone. Really waiting for it to hit that $1 mark. Now, that fidelity analysis found that the reason women outperform is because they're more hands-off on their investments. They do less. They're less likely to try to time the market. Buy and sell every day based on little tweets or little bits of news.

They chill. And that is actually... historically, the best strategy in the stock market. And it's kind of one of our financial trick shots is our best performing investment is the S&P 500 ETF. Yeah, historically, that's been way better than kind of like our advanced portfolio where we're trying to do the Nvidia game that Nick mentioned. But the investing visual that we want to leave you with

is Nintendo. Because Jack and I believe great investing is doing the opposite of how you play video games. In video games, you want to get better and better, more advanced and complicated levels up to the high highest level and those are the top performers. But in investing, the best performers are kind of playing at level one beginner pretty basic. I mean, Troy just mentioned it. She invest in VTI. That's a diversified stock market portfolio. If tech stocks are doing well, you're going to

benefit because you own some of that. If tech stocks are doing poorly, you're probably still going to be doing decently well or at least better than the tech stocks which are down because you own stocks in food and oil and manufacturing and cars. It's a diversified portfolio that's just shockingly better than everything else. That's why our takeaway on investing is Kiss, K-I-S-S, keep it simple on stocks. The beginner investment strategy is actually outperforming the advanced strategy. Which is why there is only one exception, which is when Jack buys my son's stock. It's going to be Apple shares.

So, Yetis and Basties, thank you, Audible, our presenting sponsor. Audible is the Library of Alexandria with audiobooks, audio podcasts, and other audio exclusive titles. We love listening to. Tori's title is on Audible, and when Jack and I write a book, it'll also be on Audible. And we actually, we do have a few book ideas, and so, like, Audible, we should talk. We got some things. Will we narrate it ourselves? Yes.

Or will we ask Ben and Matt to do it? No, we can do it. Let's do it. We are huge fans of listening and letting our imagination take off, and that's what Audible is fantastic for. They have supported the show. What an amazing night we've had here. Thank you so much. So thank you to the Audible team for helping put this on.

Thank you to Tori for being here and bringing some fantastic takeaways. And thank you to the Wondery Team, Chelsea and Anna, for really making the magic happen here with some insanity, including the T-boy toys and this wild Hollywood-style set. we get to be in front of. So the night's not over. We have an hour that Nick and I are going to stick around after this. After that, we're going to Good Bar. We got the after party after this, Jack. If you join us, we're going to rebrand it, the best bar. It's going to be the best bar. And before we wrap up, Nick and I never answered the question, what do we want our 64-year-old

lives to look like? You're right. We didn't really answer Paul McCartney's question. What do we want it to look like when we're 64? The truth is, we want to still be doing this podcast. We kind of wanted Just look like this. And so this job does not feel like work to us. We are so lucky to have stumbled into this career. And it's all thanks to you for listening to the show. So for episode 8,746 on Jack's 64th birthday in March, we would love to be here with you, and we can't wait for it.

So thank you for being here with us and being a part of the show. We are celebrating a fantastic night tonight. And to anyone else celebrating something today, making a team boy celebrate the wins thank you all so much yetties there is nothing like having a live audience

thank you to audible for making this beautiful event happen jack says beautiful because if you're listening you should watch on YouTube the stage was an architectural marvel it was beautiful we had a 20 foot long t-boy sigh unprecedented in the meantime you should check out all the amazing audio content from our sponsor

Audible including from the guest of this episode, Tori Dunlap. Her financial feminist is on Audible, narrated by Tori yourself. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. And we're back tomorrow with our regular daily Tea Boy show. And that will be the best one yet.