The Best One Yet - ☎️ HOTLINE: The Hailey Bieber Smoothie (of Investing) & Your Boss’ Instagram

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Nick & Jack take your calls & discuss…Rebranding the Irish goodbyeThe “test” for before you merge finances Nick’s “3rd circle” lesson from therapyThe best hiring tactic from biz school Jack’s credit card statement “dates”  Sit down (literally) with the voices of pop-business, Nick & Jack — The ex-Wall Streeters (now besties) answer questions on investing, entrepreneurship, work, life, and the financially responsible way to eat a strawberry. Guac is always extra, but this advice isn’t. Send a Question — [e-mail] (we love voice messages)Saturday Newsletter — https://bit.ly/3KwrmuuWatch on YouTube — bit.ly/4cad4ev Instagram — https://bit.ly/3KvMYXE TikTok — https://bit.ly/3Wv1dSr00:00 - intro02:09 - Rebranding the Irish goodbye 04:12 - Nick’s circular lesson from therapy 09:05 - The “test” for before you split finances 16:51 - Credit card statements “dates”22:13 - Befriending your boss23:14 - Your income % for rent 27:43 - The Hailey Bieber Smoothie (of Investing) 33:18 - Who should be your 1st hire38:27 - TBOY (Cofounder) Matchmaking  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So Yetis, we recorded this hotline episode on the last day of Nick's visit to Vermont, where he spent a full week with me, what I'm calling Camp Kramer. I had the top bunk. It was a wonderful situation. I had a buddy system going, buddy, buddy, everyone was happy. It was fantastic. Marshmellas and mores. Nick was part of our morning routine and our evening routine, which involves a lot of toddlers, okay? So we dropped off while they're at school all three days of this week. We did. Daddy Daycare. Wilder was wearing an alligator backpack. And Nick was also wearing an alligator backpack. Jack, I came prepared. I read that itinerary for the day. You can't miss that thing.

And then last night when I was reading Wilder a book in his tent, which is a really lovely, you know, pre-bedtime experience, out of nowhere, Nick knocks on the door of the tent and crawls in next to us and we're reading a book together. That's what you do for the campfire vibes, Jack. That's how you do it. Seriously, Nick, I saw a special side of you this week, and I'm so glad to have seen it. It was wonderful. I saw your silly side.

You were really silly with Wilder. Oh, you know my go-to move with anyone under three years old. You ready? What's that? Chik-tac-ch-tac-chic-tac-chic-tac-chac-chic-a-chic-a-ch-ch-a-ch-ch-a-h. And then they always end up laughing. Once you get to their tummy, it's a secret to happiness for those little kids. Brooks couldn't get enough of that.

It's real special having you in the place where we met 17 years ago. Jack, it was incredible. The only feedback I had. I didn't ask for feedback, by the last. I thought there'd be more popsicles. I honestly thought there'd be more popsicles. I honestly thought there'd be more popsicles. We did have ice cream every single night.

We did have enough ice cream. We did have the ice cream. Anyway, Nick, you're officially in the will because of your performance as the podfather this weekend. It was all part of the plan, Jack. Should we shift over to the show? You want to hit the hotline now? Let's hit the show, maybe.

What do we got going on? Why do you lead it off, Jack? Let's get to Hotline episode four with no further ado. Jack and I are going to tell you about our budget brunches and more. Jack, let's hit the hotline. Hey, you've reached Nick and Jack at the T-Boy Hotline. We couldn't get to the phone right now. But you know what to do.

Leave a message after the beep. Leave a message. Ask us any question, and we will answer your question live on the T-Boy Hotline podcast. We'll get back to you. You know what to do. Your Irish exiting on me?

I'm Irish exiting. You know what? That's the best kind of exit, frankly. Tell me. Tell me more. You know what? Make your case. Okay, it gets a bad rap.

People think, oh, it's a negative. He didn't say goodbye. Where'd that person go? But otherwise, you leave the party, and everyone feels worse that you're going. When you say goodbye at a party, suddenly it's like, oh, they're gone. Oh, should we head out? It changes the entire vibe. So I don't want to burden you with that. I'm just going to bounce. No, I know you don't watch Ted Lassau, but this was Ted Lassow season 3.

You're kidding. Yeah, Ted Lasson got to this first. Stole my idea. Did they rebrand the Irish goodbye? Because it needs a rebranding. Yeah. How should they rebrand it? Should you read it? Okay, it's not. So basically you're saying goodbye at a party is a bit of a downer. It is.

And so just eliminate that. Get out of there. And it's not an impolite thing to do. It's actually the way to keep the party vibes high. Exactly. It's the better way to goodbye. If we rebranded it, it's like you're a ninja. You're doing a service. It's like a ninja slide.

You're out of there and no one even notices. So we're not going to have a hug for goodbye? I'm going to have a friendship fade. And that's how I'm leaving. You know what? The Irish exit. The goodbye, the friendship fade, the ninja slide is really, it's not a goodbye. It's the best buy.

It's not a goodbye. It's a great buy. Okay. All right. Once it's good stuff. You're not leaving. I didn't need to say that, actually. Get back here.

We got an episode to produce. Now a quick word from our sponsor. This is Nick. This is Jack. And today's Hotline Pod is the best one yet. It's T-Boy. This is episode four, so we got to bring in Rachel. Yes.

The T-boy Pod creative director, who's the operator of all things T-boy Hotline. Rachel, ding. Well, ding, ding, ding, the phone lines are lighting up. It's like on the switchboard, I'm seeing a lot of reds, a lot of lights. Rachel, first question, who we got? This question is coming from your voicemail. This is Mel B from sunny Denver, Colorado.

Nick and Jack, you two truly seem like besties. Is there anything you guys fight about or disagree on behind the scenes? Spill the tea. Spill the tea. Wow. Is there anything we disagree on behind the scenes? So I can say we don't agree on everything. We've had some disagreements, but we talk them through.

And the strength of our friendship is on our willingness to talk things out. And if one of us has a feeling that this story is the wrong story or we're doing it the wrong way, we share it with each other in an incredibly honest way with each other. Absolutely. And we both trust that the other has the right intention. and we are besties. You're right. We are besties. And I was freshman year

of roommates with Nick. I was roommates again after college with Nick. Nick visited me in Berlin when I was studying a Brock. Yeah. I do trust him. I know his heart

is in the best place when it comes to me and the company that we've built together. And so we hear each other out. We listen to each other. We validate each other's feelings that we're having.

And we often find a third circle. Yes, yes, yes, we do. The third circle was big. I got that from couples therapy. So honestly, Jack in my relationship's like couples. Well, Nick shares all of his therapy events. Can you share the third circle?

Because I got that from you. I love sharing my takeaways from therapy with Jack. First of all, it's twice the bang for my back. So what's the third circle theory? By the way, does that mean my therapy is right off? Yes. The third circle theory is fantastic. It's a great way to deal with couples challenges.

is a great way to do with questions you have with your co-founder. Best illustrated with what should we get for dinner today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, if a couple is having this classic argument, what do we want to get for dinner? One of you's like, I really want to get Vietnamese food. And the other one's like, I really want to get Mexican food tonight.

Now, if you were to compromise, what you might say is, you know what, let's just get something neither of us wants. We're going to get burgers. We're going to get burgers, and you're both unhappy. Or you could say, let's do Vietnamese tonight. Yeah.

And we'll do Mexican some other night. But then you don't end up getting Mexican the next day and then resentment builds. Correct. The next thing you know, that relationship to work out. So what's the third circle? The third circle is you identify what is the higher level element of what you both actually want. If I want Vietnamese, maybe it means I really just want something that's spicy. And if I want Mexican, it means I also kind of want something that's spicy.

And then you say, you know what? let's land in the middle on a spicy cuisine in the middle like paella. The next thing you know, you're having paella and you're having a fantastic time. So the first circle was Vietnamese. Right. The second circle was Mexican. The third circle is always out there. And it makes both parties happy.

Paella. It's kind of like a compromise, but I don't think that's the right word. No, no, no. It's a third circle. So anyway, Nick and I, if we have disagreements like editorially or where the business is going, we share them extremely open. with each other. We do.

We both validate each other's feelings. Absolutely. We are sensitive with each other. We both know that not sharing it, the worst thing you could do. And it could explode later on, which is never good in any relationship. No. So we're both very good at right on the spot sharing relationships. Communication is everything.

Jack and I try to find the metaphorical paella in any situation. Jack and I have so many differences that in a fun way, but like when we walked into Ben and Jerry's this week on Church Street, the first. ever, Ben and Jerry's ever. We've a totally different approach to things. Like in terms of ordering, Jack's going in with the full plan. He's got a checklist. Jack already like planned it all out. I'm looking to get inspired by those flavors. And I think my four samples maybe wasn't what you would have done because you didn't get any flavor samples. But that's like a difference that we have that we don't let come between us. We embrace the other person's differences. And that's the other thing

is we recognize areas where we're different, and we pumped them up. Like, I think it's awesome that Jack went in and knew 100% of time he was going to get that sweet milk and cookies. Yeah. No, there'll be a time I'll say, like, fine, we'll do it that way. And you'll be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want you to be happy.

Right. We haven't found the third circle. I want you to be happy. And I'm like, all right, he's right. And so we'll keep working and we'll find a third circle. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We'll find the paella. Mel, thank you for listening to the show.

You're right. We are besties. And thank you for. asking that question. Thank you, Mel. And if you disagree with what we just said, maybe we'll find a third circle on a real answer. Rachel, what do we got? This question is coming from Massachusetts. Press play. Second question. Here we go. Hey, Nick and Jack, this is Jesse from Cambridge, Massachusetts. And I had a question for you guys. How do you suggest handling finances when you and your partner make a significantly different amount of money? Thanks. So I've mixed finances with two

significant to others. The first is my now X and the second is my now wife. With the then X, I shared rent proportionally after moving in based on our incomes. So that's how I did it. That was the extent of our co-mingling. And that was the situation where you had similar incomes? No, I made 60% more. Okay. So I paid 60% more rent the choice. I see. Okay, okay, okay. So it was proportional to your salary. So it was like equal amounts out of each year, equivalent amounts out of each year paid. Proportional amounts. The second time I co-mingled funds. with my wife. Nice. And we have completely joint bank accounts, complete everything. On a previous hotline, we discussed why I don't have a pre-up. And it's kind of because we started our like financial

lives with the start of our wedding. You started at the at the foundation level. You were building together. So we've completely commingled everything. We both have like two cards issued for each credit card, two debit cards issued for each bank account. Like we're all in there together. So it's not a proportional equal thing. It's all coming out of the same account. It's all coming on the same account. And your boat just contribute. But we still have different incomes and we want to kind of be transparent and open and and clear and accountable with each other. So what we do is we have a once monthly meeting where we go through all of our finances. That's it. Once a month, we talk about her spending. Basically, I have a massive Google spreadsheet where I go through all of our credit card and all of our

spending accounts. And my wife and I look through everything. And we're like, oh, you bought that? And she's like, oh, you about this? But can we quick land this up for a sec? Because this is a big deal. Like the fact that we would have transparency with our partners, that's the most important thing in a relationship potentially, is transparency around money. That relieves so much tension. So that's why Jack and I've always described this as, you need to have that monthly

meeting. It should be like a romantic monthly meeting. It's a budget brunch. It's something to be excited about to look forward to. This is like what helps grow and extend your relationship. We do it with a glass of a week. wine. Nice. We do it on the 15th of the month. Okay, that's your day. Our day is the third. Yeah, we do it every 15th of the month. Our credit card bills will do like the third or the fifth.

So we do our budget brunch on like the third or the first. I wouldn't say it's always romantic for us. But it is really nice when we can see that our finances are going in the right direction. So at the top of the spreadsheet, we have all of our recurring payments like rent, utilities, et cetera. Then we have our credit card balances. Then we have our bank account balances. And then we have our debt accounts. And then we have our investment accounts. At the very bottom is a net worth number. But the really interesting part is the credit card statements. Oh, yeah. That's what are we spending on this month. That's where the juice comes out. Is it kind of like what we co-agreed to? And then if our finances are going in the wrong direction, which we have a lot of months,

you know, like our net worth is shrinking because we spent too much. Then we adjust. And we say, we got to come up with a budget for how much we spend on restaurants, how much we spend on shopping. and we agree to it and we kind of set goals for the next month for the next 15th of the month. And then we come together. And if we've achieved that, that is a really cool celebratory moment. It's a nice little celebrate the wins. Yeties, one of the best things you can do for your relationship is set aside $100 every month. Choose that one day for Jackets, it's the 15th.

For me, it's the third, every month where you're going to have your budget brunch. Go out with that $100 in cash and treat yourself to look over all of your spending. That's a great idea. Everything you saved. Know that that $100 is set aside. You can just splurge. That's a mimosa brunch. That's a great idea. That's a mimosa brunch and pancakes. I never thought about budgeting for this day of the month. And you celebrate because most of the time you're going to have something to celebrate there. And when you're seeing your career successes in that meal and talking about what your dreams are and what you want to spend on in the next vacation and the next party and that next trip over to Buenos Aires, that's somebody to celebrate and you can do it all in your budget brunch. And if your numbers are going in the right direction and you think you're, yeah. You know, your savings account for your home you're trying to buy is growing, then celebrate that.

If they're going in the wrong direction, they're shrinking, you got to make a course correction. We didn't say get two rounds of mimosis. Say you one round of mimosis. No, you got to say, like, look, we want to buy a house. Yeah, we need to get 50 grand for a down payment. But that's such an exciting conversation, too. You're doing it together. That's why you do it.

You make sure you do it every month. You prioritize it, but you make it a celebratory thing. You make it feel like a date night. So to answer Jesse's question, first I did it proportionally. Yes. Then I got married and we were all in together and it's all about transparency. Jack, can we back it up a second? Because there's one thing implied in Jesse's question that every couple has a question about.

And that question is, should we combine our finances? And the best way to answer that question is with our trip test. So the trip test is basically just a little test to see how do we handle things as a couple if we merge finances. Okay. And kind of like the brunch idea. Yeah, yeah. The romantic like budgeting date, it sort of does it in a sexy glamorous way. Oh, totally. Because there is nothing that tests a relationship like a vacation. Like you are traveling, you know, the trains late, you don't speak the local language. Suddenly you're paying and you don't know if you do tips. Someone forgets this. Your handbag gets lost. It's stressful being on a trip. But when you're on that trip, how you spend money can be a microcosm of the whole relationship. So what's the test? Okay, so here's how the test goes down. Let's say you're going on vacation, you're going to Lisbon.

Everyone's going to Portugal right now, so let's go with Portugal. What you would do is you would set a budget for that trip. You could actually combine Venmo accounts for that trip. You could even just take out cash every day, 300 euros, and have that in your little fanny pack while you're walking around Lisbon as your joint spending.

What that trip does is it gives you a bordered, barri-coucraste test of relational. test of relationship spending where you're spending on everything together. You're spending on your shopping or you're buying that cute top. You're spending on dinners 9 p.m. X for Neal. Are you going to do that or not? The vineyard, the wines you get. Everything is going to be like relationship spending back home, but limited to that trip. And that's a great way to test how you both handle money and how you could handle the owner of person's money habits. Yeah. And so you set a budget prior what you plan to spend for that weekend trip? Totally. And that budget is what you put in your Venmo account.

Or it's what you take out and withdraw to keeping your fanning. So I love this because you do this when you're starting to get serious with the person. Yeah, you do. But maybe like haven't moved in with them. Exactly. So this is like the first financial leap you've taken together. Oh, yeah. And you know what?

It's just a test to see how you handle those stakes. And it's a great way to find red flags. Great way to find red flags. Yeah. Because if you're like looking in that fanny pack and you're like, wait, where'd all the cash go? And they go, honey, you're not going to believe it. I just got 14 different caprinias. You're going to know that may be an issue.

And maybe the revelation is like, we totally underestimated how much we would spend in this trip. Yeah. And we need to double it. Like, maybe you're halfway through the trip and you're like, this is the wrong budget. No, no, you're totally right. And we came up with the wrong number. And if you both agree to do it, then that's good.

Or maybe you're testing each other's discipline. Yeah, you are. Yeah. And you do not increase the budget. And the rest of the trip is freebies. Oh, and total like promo, you want to, like, show off to your spouse? Like, the final night, you could be like, you know what? We've saved an extra $30.

let's go out and get that extra round. Love it. And then you come back and you kind of feel cool. Rachel, what's the next question? This next one is from Anonymous. How do you navigate workplace friendships, especially if your manager is becoming your good friend? Your manager is becoming a friend.

Okay. That's... I played golf a bunch of times with one of my managers. I had my manager at our wedding. Oh, yeah. Dude, I spent a weekend in Germany at my manager's German house. And we had too many spetzluss. Isn't there like a rice pudding?

So this is interesting. I have had managers become friends. I've had managers become friends too. And honestly, one of the great joys in life is having friends at work. Something like 10% of married couples met at work. Like something like 25% of your friends are people you met at work. Like after college, work is a wonderful place to meet people. It's a good reason to go back to the office to meet people and build friendships.

There's no question that work is a great place to find friends. It gets a little complicated when that friend is your manager. That's the key difference. And it definitely can still be wonderful, though, because if your boss likes you as a person and likes you as a friend, they're going to be more invested in your success. They're going to teach you more tricks of the trade. They'll bring you into the office to tell you about a phone call they're about to make and coach you up on how they're about to execute it. And there's some wonderful learnings you could get if that person really, really likes you. What Jack's saying is that the best friend you can have at work is a mentor.

That's the best friend you can have. If your manager is also your friend, they're de facto your mentor. I think that's kind of the definition of a mentor in some ways. Of course, a mentor could be outside of the work. But wait, Jack, there is this. You shared once with me like a real estate analogy. Like a real estate analogy for managers and friendships. That was amazing.

If your manager is also your friend, it's like having a house on the beach. It's freaking awesome having a house on the beach. And it's also awesome having a manager. Who's your friend? On the beach, you get to play in the sand and go swimming. It's wonderful. If your manager is your boss, you get to have more fun at work and more fun on business trips. Maybe they're going to expense out and take you another great meal.

Awesome. And like I said, they'll be your mentor and they'll teach you some wonderful things and help you with your career. But just like a house on a beach, there's some tension here if the manager is your boss. Yes, there is. Your house might get hit by a hurricane. Right. And a natural disaster could strike. and the natural disaster, if your manager is also your friend,

is that you ask for a pay raise, but they're not able to give it to. Or like the hurricane hitting your house on the beach is the equivalent of there being layoffs at work and your manager having to sadly lay off. That would be brutal. Yeah. Or you having to leave and having to tell your boss you're going to leave. That would be tough too. So I think the key if your manager is also your friend is that you manage your expectations.

just like if you have a house on the beach. You know a hurricane might come. You know that if you have a beach house. And you're aware that it could come. It almost might come, you know? Like there's a decent chance it does come. And it's the same with having a manager who's your boss. You're managing expectations.

The tension could flare up in a moment where you ask for money or they need to do layoffs or they need to reassign you or assign you to a position you don't like. There's just an inherent little conflict, a little under the radar issue, that could happen. Okay, do you remember we were at dinner two nights ago? And we were having that really nice conversation about making friends when you're in your 30s,

especially as a guy. It's a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. When you're a parent too. Yeah, it's tough. Because also maintaining friendships, making new friends, I thought an interesting takeaway from that that we both had after we enjoyed that incredible Hulumi.

Yeah. Was that with any kind of a friendship, you really have to manage expectations. Because if you expect the same thing. from all of your friends, then someone's going to bother you, someone's going to disappoint you. No one can live up maybe to the standards you expect. So you kind of have to have different expectations for different friends, knowing like how everyone is different. Everyone is different enegrams. Everyone has different personalities. And a management relationship, a relationship with your boss, is the same as how you should treat your other friendships. You need a different set of

expectations for each one of your friends. Yeah. I have one buddy, funniest guy in the world. He's great. He's actually very much like kind of right there with you. you in terms of funniness. Appreciate that. You two are like kind of like, he's almost this fun. Lift and Uber kind of situation. I'll be the Uber. Oh, you know what I'm talking about?

I think I do. And I want to be the Uber in this situation. So great, great guy. Love hanging out with him. Love him. Really good guy. But he's also kind of flaky sometimes. And we'll bail last second.

And I kind of know that the bailing frustrated or disappointed. No, I'm aware now that a bailing last second might happen. And I do not let that get in the way of the friendship. I've managed my expectations, and I know that if I'm planning to see him, it might get canceled. So you've managed your expectations on how to handle this friend. If you didn't manage them, you'd probably be frustrated and you would never hang out with them. And then you'd lose that friend. Same with Jack's boss relationship analogy.

You have to have different expectations for what it's like having a friend who's your boss, then a friend who's just a regular friend. And I honestly think that visual of the beach house is perfect. It can be wonderful. And it is wonderful. Yeah. But be aware that there's a risk. Oh, wait, Rachel's got a branch off question.

Rachel, what we got? Should you let your boss follow you on Instagram if you're friends and vice versa from the manager perspective? I think so. Absolutely. I think so. I actually feel like I got ahead at work by sharing my personal life and everybody. Totally.

On Mondays, I would come in and tell everybody what I did for the weekend. And this was in my 20s. Yeah. When like what I did on the weekend included a lot of partying. Like there was a little bit of a risk sharing that I went to Austin for the weekend and like had a mustache and shared. my beard and looked ridiculous. Yes.

But people really kind of liked hearing my stories on the weekends. I shared a lot about my personal life. I think it's, it made people like me at work. And I personally think if you put yourself out there, you'll, it'll pay off for you because people will like you. Most things in life come down to a yes or no, should I or shouldn't die. This is one of those questions where it's like should or shouldn't I. In general, are on the side of yes.

When it comes to showing off who your authentic self is. Yeah. Your Instagram might have some filters on it, but it is a reflection of who you are. All right, Rachel, next question. Who we got? Our next question is from Aaron McConnell in Mission Viejo, California. What percent of your income should be spent on housing? We have such a good answer for that question.

First, let's hit the ad, though. We'll answer it after the short break. What percent of your income should be spent on housing? This reminds me of our budget question that we did on that last hotline about what percentage your budget should be spent on venue. Because venue was the biggest part of a wedding budget. The venue is like 50% of your wedding budget. And when it comes to life, rent is the venue of your life.

So there is a historical guideline that economists and financial advisors give. This is one of those rare questions where there is a specific single numerical answer. Historically speaking, maximum 30%. In other words, you should not spend more than 30% on your income on your health. housing, whether that's rent or a mortgage. And Jack, we share why economists say 30% is what you should spend. Well, I think they look at the other 70%. And they know how much clothing, food, transportation, medicine, healthcare costs. If you have children, how much that costs. And it's kind of like, that's 70%. And so 30 is sort of like, that's all you got left for housing, man. Once you go higher than

30%, 40%, you start cutting into other necessities. And it's like, okay, I get to listen. And it's like, okay, I get to live in a mansion. In a really nice mansion, but I don't eat lunch. I'm eating ramen noodles. Yeah. So here's the issue, though, with the 30% maximum that you should be spending on your rent. That is an outdated number and the housing market is insane. So the reality we see is it's also dependent on which market you're in. If you're living in certain markets like San Francisco or New York, the way housing isn't so expensive, I think anyone I've ever spoken to is spending like 40% of their income on rent. Okay. If you look at the nationwide average, this year for the first time ever, the average renter is paying 30% of their income as their rent.

So what's supposed to call the maximum. Which means that more than half of American renters are paying more than the advisable amount that they should pay on rent. Right. That is a brutal situation. And I've lived in New York City. I've lived in San Francisco. Yes. Outrageous rents.

But I live in Vermont right now. And we have outrageous rents here. Oh, yeah, everywhere. Nationwide, we have an issue that there just is not enough housing. Oh, yeah. this is why Jack and I have done so many takeaways on like the cure for so much of our economy would be simply more housing.

In the last 20 years, I don't remember the exact numbers, but let me ballpark it. Yeah. Let's say there's been 20 million new households formed. There's only been 10 million new houses. That is, there's simply not enough homes. Right. And since there are not enough homes,

landlords can charge basically whatever they want and we have to pay. Although, I've got to be honestly to the Jack, if you gave me an elevator building in the West Village, I would give up lunch and I would do the ramen once a day. No, everyone has tradeoffs. 30% is just the guideline. But I think to help more people get to that 30%.

We, as a country, we've said it so many times on our pot. The takeaway is that we need to build baby build. Everywhere in this country, we need to allow more houses, more apartment buildings to get built so that more people can have a roof on for their head for an affordable price. That's I actually get the price of all this stuff down. And that's when it becomes a smaller and smaller portion. And that's when you can start saving because you're spending less than 30% of your income on rent so that you can buy something eventually. Big reason we don't have enough homes is NIMBY.

Yeah. Not in my backyard. Oh, totally. People are all for there being more housing built. Uh-huh. But then when there's someone who petitions to build a new apartment building near them, they say, I don't think I want more traffic. It's going to affect my home. Yeah, I don't want outsiders coming into my town.

I'm not that cool with it. Here's the issue. Everyone does that. It's like kind of a financial incentive to do it. We need to not do that. We need to all build. Build baby, build. So, Aaron, the rule for rent is 30%.

The rule for rent is 30% or less of your income that you should be spending. Although half of us are breaking that rule. Half of us are breaking that rule. Full disclosure, me too. Yeah. Hence the solution. Build baby build. We got to have more houses.

We got to have more houses. That's why Jack and out getting that jack cameras out. Put it on a bumper sticker. Put it on bumper sticking. Build, baby, build. All right, Rachel. What do we got next? We've got a message from Canada in your voicemail.

Push and play. Hello, Jack and Nick. My name is Danela Akinslili. I'm from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. And my question today is how do I start investing? How do you start investing? The best way to start investing is, ironically, to order a smith. I think when Nick's getting out is to order an ETF.

To order the Haley Bieber smoothie from Arawan. So Danielle, the ETF is actually the biggest thing I have my money invested in. Okay, this is a funny fact about Jack and me is that we always disclose the stocks we own on the show. Yeah, this is Nick. I own Lulu Lemon. This is Jack and on Spotify. Yeah. And we've invested in a whole range of stocks.

It's a really fun list. Of individual stocks. Yes. But there is one investment we have made that I have has outperformed all others that we talk about the least. It's the easiest investment of all. And what is it, Jack? We invest in an ETF of the S&P 500.

An ETF of the SB 500. Here's what that is. It's our best, coolest investment and is our boringest, simplest investment. It's a financial smoothie. Yes. And we recommend it to anyone who's thinking about investing. Yeah, we do. It is a financial smoothie with 500 ingredients.

And those 500 ingredients are the 500 most valuable publicly traded companies in the United States. And an exchange traded fund, it is a fund. And so it owns all of those companies, and all you have to do is buy the S&P 500 SPY shares. Yeah. And that gives you access to all 500. It's like ordering a smoothie. It is. A smoothie has a whole bunch of ingredients in it.

Oh, yeah. So does this ETF. Jack, it's like the Haley Bieber smoothie, Arawan. It's got some beetball on in there. It's got some blueberries, some cloud milk, some milk. Well, let me ask you this. What's the base ingredient? Like, what's the milk in the Haley Bieber smoothie?

I think it's pistachio apricot. Okay. Okay, that's the fanciest thing I've ever heard. But it's the same with this ETF in the S&P 500. The biggest ingredient is the most valuable company in the United States, which is Microsoft right now. So when you buy an S&P 500 ETF, you're going to get access to like Nvidia, Microsoft, and the big tech companies. But you're also getting access to your Nikes, your Ralph Laurenstocks and fashion. You're getting access to your Chipotle's and your McDonald's and food.

And the nice thing about this diversified ETF that we're talking about, it does. it does really well in good times. In a straw. And it does not that badly in bad times because it's diversified. That's why when Jack and I made stock investments, we've done really badly in bad times. We did really well in good times. But this balanced out in a way that has outperformed every other share we've owned.

So, Nick's and my, this is a confession. This is true. Our portfolio of individual stocks does worse than the simple ETF of the S&P 500. professions of a podcast host pair who always talk about the stock market. In other words, the stocks that we make our own decision and say, I want that because I believe in that. Yeah, we're like, that's like a flay mignon. That's a cool piece of money. Does worse than the cruise control option. Just invest simply in the market. So this question from Danielle was about where to start investing. We started investing like decade ago. And yet we still use this. Yeah. And it reminds me of our analogy about

video games. The stock market is like Nintendo. Go on. Everyone thinks that when it comes to investing, you want to get up a level, up a level, up a level, improving, growing, more challenges, level 10, you shig, you save the princess, level 14, Mario jumps on Yoshi. Like, they think it's like Nintendo. We're investing, you want to go higher and higher and higher. And get more and more advanced. But the reality is, in investing, you can simply play at level one and you will win the game. Yeah, that's a big secret of finance. Right. If you invest in a simple ETF of the stock market, you'll do better than your stock jockey buddies who brag about the things they're investing.

Jack and I have done options trading and complex iron condor stuff. And we worked on Wall Street. At the end of the day, our best performing stuff is the level one simplest game over stuff. The best way to start investing is also the best way to finish investing. Yes, exactly. Now, just want to say one more thing to Daniela. You can put any amount of money into the S&P 500. Yeah, you can.

Whether it's $1,000, or a million dollars. So you could come up with a budget that takes $500 a month of savings. And rather than put it in a totally risk-free savings account, maybe you have some cash cushion and you can invest it in the stock market and take a risk. long term, average, it goes up 10% per year historically. There's no guarantee it'll continue that in the future. And there's some years where it's down and there's some years where it's up. But overall, that's what Nick and I do with the extra money we have because long term,

we want to own companies, benefit from their profitability. Totally. And increase our wealth. So what we're saying is whether you're a beginner or an expert, whether you're Super Mario or regular Mario. investing simply with something like the S&P 500 SPY ETF is the smartest thing you can do. Oh, by the way, if it does grow 10% per year, not too shabby. After seven years, it will have doubled. Math.

It's a me, Mario. All right. Thank you, Rachel. What's our next question? Our next question is from Antita Roy in California. As an entrepreneur, what should be your first hire? As an entrepreneur, who should be your first hire? What kind of position?

I hate to say it depends, but it kind of depends. I hate the answer to depends. I'm going to start answering and hope that you come up with something better. I think I'm cooking on something. I think I'm cooking on something, John. All right. So if you already have a product, your first hire should be sales because you need to begin selling that product.

I like that. If you don't have a product yet, but you just have an idea, then you need an engineer to build the product that you have devised. If you don't even have a business model yet, then you might need a co-founder. I love this. Keep going. You're on a roll right now. That's all I got. Okay. I think I got something too. You ready? Yeah. The best way to approach your first hire as an entrepreneur is to use a strategy that they use in the venture capital community.

Go on. Okay. Okay. So in venture capital, there are mainly two types of funds. Either you invest as a VC in early stage startups or you invest in later stage startups. or you invest in later stage startups. Now, there's a difference in the approach, and here's the key difference. With later stage startups, you focus more on the business because the business has matured,

and you focus on what are the technicals, how's the product going, what is the customer, the product market thing. But when it comes to investing in an early stage business, VCs focus on the person, the founder, the creator. And what we think, because I'm speaking on your behalf here, Jack, is that that is the approach you should take

as a founder of a company. The same as an early stage VC would have to investing in an early stage company. So this is your early stage hiring period. Yes, thank you. Thank you. So you're not investing in the founder like a venture capital,

but you are investing in the employee. Right. So I guess what you're saying, Nick, is like think less about what role I need and think more about what person do I need. That's exactly. What kind of personality? If it's your first hire and this is a startup,

they're not just going to be a salesperson. They're not just going to be an engineer. They're not just going to be a co-founder. They're going to be involved in all sorts of things. Right. So actually, we should share what is the number one trait you and I look for when we're hiring? Because it's similar to this. Well, we're still a startup.

And I think we'll always be a startup, which I love. The main thing we look for is an ownership mentality. Yes. We look for someone who is going to treat the company like their own, take tasks and own them and bring them all the way to completion. and not require us to nudge them to finish the project because it's their baby and they're going to go with it. Jack and I believe that technical skills can be taught, a mentality can't be bought. You either come in with the mentality or you don't.

If you don't come in with skills, you can learn them. And that's why we always focus with our initial hires. We've always focused on ownership mentality. Let me ask you another question. How do you determine whether someone has an ownership mentality? It depends. No, I'm just kidding. The best way is to see a show not tell, like how it's been demonstrated with someone.

Like, how have they demonstrated an ownership mentality? And I think one of the things we've done in hiring... With something on the resume? Well, one thing we've done with hiring... I remember in business school they talked about this is like the best hiring tactic, is you give the applicant a task. And however they handle that task is how they're likely to handle the job. As part of the interview process.

Yeah. Like, I think with our first hire, we had Rachel write up. up like a newsletter. True. Right? We like had it. We were like, you're going to be working on the newsletter. We want you to craft an entire newsletter. And you know what? Some people saw that who we were hiring and they weren't interested. Or they were like, that's too much or they thought it was too much effort or they gave us like a pretty standard thing. But going above and beyond on that task was like perfect. I think we also paid for that test. We did. We did compensate. Yeah. If you're going to expect an applicant to do work as part of the application process,

we think it's a best practice to pay them something for it. Totally. But, They can also tell a wonderful story about a project they did, where they truly demonstrate that they owned that project. And you can kind of sense that their passion for their work is authentic and believe that they're going to continue that. That's another way. All right. So let's like whip out the whiteboard here.

I'm going to try to summarize what you said about a first hire. It depends. No, it doesn't matter. What Jack was saying was for your first hire as a startup, if you have the product, you need a salesperson. If you have the idea, you need an engineer or builder. and if you have neither, you need a co-founder. And let me try to summarize Nick's takeaway on this question. If you're hiring the first person at your startup,

then you need to hire a person, not a role. Yes. You're not hiring a salesperson or an engineer or a co-founder. You're hiring that person right there. And they're going to be right there with you building the company. So who is this person? Do they have an ownership mentality? And do you get along with them?

Because you're going to spend a lot of time working with them. You're hiring a personality. not a skill. Just like an early stage VC. Thank you so much, Enkita, for the question, and good luck on that first hire. I think it's time to pivot

to a closing segment. T-boy matchmaking. Yes, T-boy matchmaking. Come on down. The Love Island of T-Boy. In our last hotline episode, we talked about Lila, who founded a company called Jerry Wipers,

and she told us about it on the show, and was looking for a co-founder. Because on T-Boy matchmaking, that's what we do. We have this incredible community of Yetis and Besties out there, and some of them were just looking for a co-founder, and the perfect fit would be a fellow Yeti or Bestie? Happy to report that Lila rent to a convention. She did.

Bumped into a bunch of Yeti. Yes, she did. We don't know specifically who the co-founder is or if she's found one yet, but she's headed in the right direction. She's on her way. But we have a new candidate this week. Yes, we got to find a T-boy match for this founder,

we got you. Davis Hagan in Atlanta, Georgia, whose company is called Sham Dude. Let's press play. Hey, Nick and Jack. My name is Davis Hagan here in Atlanta, Georgia. My business is Shamdued, a men's hair care and personal care business that uses all natural ingredients without skimping on the great scent and feel. I'm looking for a co-founder with an entrepreneurial spirit, preferably in the Atlanta area, to be a partner and help grow the business. Thanks. Okay, first of all, cue the Shark Tank casting team. Get this guy on TV. That is incredible voice. Can I share with you something?

Love the pitch. I already purchased this product. Oh, you did? You already ordered it? You're kidding. I ordered shampoo. No, I ordered cedar flavored. Yeah, I did order the beard oil.

I jumped it, T-boy style. I actually don't really get how beard oil works. Yeah, well, you're going to find out. I know. So I purchased the cedar flavored shampoo conditioner and beard oil. I love that. And it's coming from Atlanta, Georgia. So Davis is looking for a fellow co-founder who could help scale this cosmetics and men's-focused body care line.

I was going to say empire. In the Atlanta area, not too shabby. Okay, Yetis, you know what to do. If you're interested in an opportunity like this, we can connect you. I love how Davis didn't say, like, I'm looking for a salesperson or an engineer. He's looking for an early hire here. Totally. And he's looking for a person.

It's going to have an ownership mentality at sham dude. Not necessarily a man in finance, 6-5 Blue Eyes or Trust Fund. So hit us up at Nick and Jack, a T-Boy pod, if you're interested in connecting with Davis on this. You know how a lot of times at companies, they say, oh, we love it when like two people meet at our company and then get married and they get invited to, and then I get invited to the wedding as their boss. I think for us, if we can connect two Yetis through T-Boy matchmaking and then we go to the IPO when they go public with the company, that's our wedding. That's our wedding. That would be magnificent.

That'd be great. We'll see on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Davis. All right, Jack, could you whip up the takeaways for us for the hotline pod? If you're thinking about taking the next step in the relationship financially, kick it off with the travel test. A weekend trip with you and your boo where you combine finances and a budget for that weekend, and you have full financial transparency. You're in it together. Next takeaway, the budget brunch. Set aside 100 bucks every month and use that money to have a fantastic brunch. Go over your credit card bill. Celebrate the wins and only have one round of mimosis. Boss friendships treat them like a beachside condo. They're wonderful.

But manage your expectations because it could turn negative. The rental rule, you should have 30% or less of your income spent on rent. But half of us don't because rent is too dang high. So build baby built. And if you find a free two bedroom in the West Village, you may want to give up lunch for it. We would. Nixon, my most successful investing strategy is our boringest. is our easiest, most boring investment strategy.

We just put money in the S&P 500 with an ETF, which is like a smoothie for stocks. The Haley-Beber smoothie. And investing is not like video games. Don't treat it like Nintendo. It's not about level six. Everyone can succeed on level one. Beginners may actually perform better than so-called experts.

And finally, Jack, your first hire when it comes to your startup? You're hiring a person. You're not hiring a role. Hired this man. Yetis, you looked fantastic today, Jack. You're glowning that crew neck, man. Thank you. We got bonus questions that we couldn't answer on the show.

It's the best newsletter yet. You got to subscribe now. Can we also maybe share some BTS picks in this one? Absolutely. There's a link in the episode description. Last but not least, this is hotline. And it lives off your questions. So if you got a question for a future episode,

email Nick and me at Nick and Jack at T-Boypod.com. Leave us a voicemail, and we can get your voice on the pod. And your voice is going to sound fantastic. Now there's one more thing we said that I think we should show and not tell. That's true. We wanted to rebrand the Irish goodbye to the friend fade. It's not a goodbye, Jack. It's a great buy.

If you know...