The Best One Yet - 💪 “How David Bar Flexed Virality” — Our Interview with Peter Rahal of David Protein

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

In his twenties, he founded RXBAR and sold it to Kellogg for $600M. In his thirties, he launched David Protein, which competes with RXBAR, and it’s already worth $725M. Peter Rahal tells the secrets on how he launched two companies in the same category all before he turned 35. And he shares his latest numbers.In this interview episode, you’ll hear…What the RX Bar founder learned from dealing drugsWhat non-dyslexic people can learn from dyslexicsThe niche RXBar found: paleo bars for CrossFit dudes How to make packaging stand outSelling RX Bar to Kellogg for $600mCompeting against RX Bar with his new venture: DavidThe 3 principles of nutritionPeter announces David’s revenue numbers Why they made the brand’s packaging goldWhy David acquired a top secret super protein company: Epogee His biggest failurePS: Peter’s Linkedin is epic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-rahal-037bba43/Watch the interview on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tboypod NEWSLETTER:https://tboypod.com/newsletter OUR 2ND SHOW:Want more business storytelling from us? Check our weekly deepdive show, The Best Idea Yet: The untold origin story of the products you're obsessed with. Listen for free to The Best Idea Yet: https://wondery.com/links/the-best-idea-yet/NEW LISTENERSFill out our 2 minute survey: https://qualtricsxm88y5r986q.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_dp1FDYiJgt6lHy6GET ON THE POD: Submit a shoutout or fact: https://tboypod.com/shoutouts SOCIALS:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tboypod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tboypodYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tboypod Linkedin (Nick): https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolas-martell/Linkedin (Jack): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-crivici-kramer/Anything else: https://tboypod.com/ About Us: The daily pop-biz news show making today’s top stories your business. Formerly known as Robinhood Snacks, The Best One Yet is hosted by Jack Crivici-Kramer & Nick Martell. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I had this plan. It was around re-reserrecting Power Bar. And I just told enough people. And I told so many people that I had to do it. Your reputation was on the line. Aren't you doing another bar, man? And then so I was like, all right, October 6th was my non-compete expiration. And as it got closer, I was like, all right, let's get to figure this out.

So then you launched David Bar. You're now back with the subject of today's show, the David Bar. Although, got to point out, before we dive in T-Boy style to David Barr, you're operating in the same industry competing with your first company, RX Bar. Is that like awkward with Kellogg? Was Kellogg pissed? Yeah. Yeties, bust out your biceps, test out your triceps, and crank up those calves. Because our guest today has created more protein than a herd of cows on leg day.

Peter Hall is the co-founder of David Protein, the most viral food brand of the year. The name, David, it is inspired by the Renaissance sculpture. And the subliminal message there? Eat David, get a 12-pack abs just like the statue. Less than one year since launching, David has hit a $725 million valuation. Jack, get this guy a cuff. This business is going to have to take a steroid test. This company is so committed to protein.

They launched a cod bar just to prove a point. It's true. Their latest protein bar, it's a filet of fish. And before launching all this, Peter, founded a different protein bar, the RX bar, that Kellogg was so thirsty for, they dropped 600 million bucks on it. Nick, Peter's taste for trends is so cutting edge, he's like a human knife. Jack, his instinct for branding is so far ahead, he's more artist than entrepreneur. Besties, please welcome to the pod, the Prince of Protein, the Baron of Bars. The Lord of Longevity.

Peter Rahal is the co-founder of David Protein, and he's about to unwrap how he made the most viral product of the year. So Yetis, sit back, relax, and pause that Pilates class. Because today's interview with Peter is the best one yet. Wow. There we go. Okay. Nice.

Best intro I've ever received. Fantastic. Any fact checks? Are you going to... Prince of protein. I'll take it. It's not going to show up on your LinkedIn now? You can run with it, Peter.

So, Peter, you're actually the first founder we've interviewed, whose first venture was illegal. Yeah. You sold drugs. I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you could help us here, if you could frame this as a cringy LinkedIn post,

what did selling marijuana in high school teach you about entrepreneurship? Cultivating and selling marijuana taught me to always have a nose for demand and see that there's demand in the market. If there's demand and you create supply, you have a great business. I've noticed the cannabis industry always calls it cultivate. I always get corrected when I say grow or produce. It's cultivating. Well, that's what you would put on a LinkedIn program, Jack.

It reminds me of a line you once said we noticed in our research, Peter, which was, great entrepreneurs can't break the law, but you have to bend the rules a little bit. Especially in anything innovation. It usually is that way. Now a quick word from our sponsor. You know, Peter, as we were studying your background, we noticed you grew up in Chicago, raised just outside the city. Your parents were in the food industry, Lebanese immigrants.

you grew up thinking that you were not successful. Like something was not working for you, right? It turned out you had dyslexia. Yeah, yeah. So, and the whole system is designed for procedural learning and reading. And so it took me more time. And yeah, I just more or less funded it and failed. Peter, we've heard that dyslexic people are overrepresented

when it comes to successful founders of businesses. So maybe this is a funny question for you, but what can a not dyslexic person learn from dyslexics? So I'll define dyslexia because it's pretty abstract for someone who doesn't experience it. So I'll start with defining it. Yeah. And it's really hard to understand if you don't experience it. But here's how it works. So the dyslexic mind really struggles with anything in a sequence.

So like reading is very sequential. It's a formula. There's a system, a letter. and then that sequence, you have to follow. So like counting, sequencing of things, like paying the bills, for example, like that process is really hard. And what many dyslexic experience is that, like, the brain sort of melu functions with that.

And so the way dyslexics learn to read is typically memorization or just visualizing, like, the whole word. Like, so like when I read, I don't do it sort of phonetically. I like memorize that word. And then I see it as like a whole word end to end. And so a lot of times like the vowels in the middle don't mean anything to me. So instead of moving from left to right down the word and, you know, making out the sounds, you had to memorize every word?

Basically, yeah. Wow. It's sort of like going through school with a weighted vest. And so it's like you're going uphill. So you can often, they'll just develop a great work ethic. And then they also will develop strategies to solve that problem. It's like making something harder, so it's like great training. Yeah.

But then like neurologically speaking, dyslexic are very good at association or pattern recognition. So connecting dots, also known as like holistic thinking. So it's really, it turns out that's really good in entrepreneurship. And being a CEO where you need like interdisciplinary skill sets to connect dots. So it's sort of one, there's like an environmental component. and then second there's a neurological component. So you, Richard Branson, Charles Schwab, all dyslexics who went on to pattern recognize your way into entrepreneurship.

And it's just like outside the box thinking. I think it's helpful. I'm trying to think like, how can I connect the dots better? How can Jack become dyslexic? No, no, no. I mean, what is connecting the dots in business? It's just having like smart insights and then acting on those smart insights. Yeah, it's understanding the gist of why certain things work or why certain things don't work,

and then being able to find those associations and then apply. Well, let's look at the first huge example of when you applied those instincts, which was your first legal business, RX bar. You invented a radically clean protein bar in 2013, just four ingredients per bar, egg whites, almonds, figs, and one other item, maybe maple syrup. And, you know, I love the RX bar. Sometimes I pause at the egg white, because you've got to cook that to make sure it's safe, right? How is an RX bar actually made?

And, like, what keeps the ingredients stuck together in a bar form? So the egg whites are, they're pasteurized and they're dried so the water's removed. So they do go through a kill step. And pasteurizing is just like heating. Yeah, exactly. So that's a validated kill step. They're very stable. And then what binds them together would be dates.

Wow. I assume the egg white was the sticky part. Okay. Was it your Lebanese background related to the date inclusion there? Yeah, I mean, we grew up eating them. So that was a dot that I had, right? Like, oh, this is a great thing. It's used in other bars like Laura Barr. But yeah, I would give some credit to my ancestry there. So what we were really fascinated with with our X bar was how you came to market. Because Jack and I have a theory we call Snobos. Snobo stands for SNABO. Small niches are big opportunities. Yeah, I mean, Peter, you're a big CrossFit guy.

Your small niche was CrossFit and like big rugby dudes who were just looking for pure protein to feed those muscles after a workout. Yes. Can you tell us more about how you delivered to that market early on? Yeah, so I went to a cross-ed gym and that was basically my like petri dish to learn.

So I would bring in samples, get feedback, process the feedback. And I remember we dropped off, you know, two boxes, 24 bars, and they sold out in, like, in two hours. So we had really strong signs of product market fit in this little across the gym. And actually the insight, you know, like entrepreneurship is like so fragile. If the wind blows the wrong way, you could die or the idea can die. And I remember at my gym, a cliff bar rep, they got a sample of like 12 peanut butter plus bars, the energy bar, the original one. And I remember seeing them, like, it was like radioactive.

No one would touch them. Yeah. The reason why is because it was not paleo. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, like, that's an obvious dot to connect. Like, oh, if I made one that was paleo, like, I bet I thought people would like them. You know, like there's demand there. that was really the kind of the genesis of like, all right, there's maybe a market here.

And the other thing was like, I remember looking at going to Whole Foods, where I like every sort of food entrepreneur's dream is Whole Foods. And I remember looking at the category. And then people have this reaction today. It's like there's so much competition. And I remember looking at it would be like, no way I can compete there. Like, I don't even know how to get in there. And so I was like, well, I need a route to market.

And CrossFit was booming. And it was like a perfect route to market. Yeah. because you're basically saying, yeah, I could have gone the general way and just like tried to get into Whole Foods. But then I'm like, I'm filled with a mess of other bars and I'm trying to stand out in this sea of brands. On the other hand, you just focus on CrossFit where everyone's rejecting the other bars out there, the cliff bars. And suddenly you can kind of get this deeper connection. Yeah.

So it was to your niche point, it was a perfectly, it was an totally uncompetitive market. Yeah. No one else was allowed in. You had the right of passengers to be paleo, and we were the only ones that were pale. You know, Nick and I have always said, the best markets to be in are the ones where there's no competition. Now, it's hard to find a market with no competition.

But protein bars for Crossfitters, who tend to be paleo, there was no competition, and you filled that void. I thought you were going to share the three-week experience you had with CrossFit. Now, Peter, you do go through this insane inflection point, which is leading up to all this, you are packaging the bars in your basement with your mom. She's like mist stamping the labels over here. The design kind of looked like it was made on PowerPoint.

And then the inflection point is that you changed the packaging. The packaging became the product. What did you do differently with your packaging that really helped you take off? So a strategy was to be the bar of CrossFit, get to some scale, and then figure out how to compete in the broader market. Now, we had tried the PowerPoint packaging in some local, smaller markets that were representative of the mature competitive market.

And it didn't work. Like just lost in the sea of sameness. Totally. And so we're like, all right, we have to do something cool. We can't follow the same design. architecture that everyone does like big brand name claims flavor like the only thing people cared about about our product is when we talked about it was like an rx bar is like eating three egg whites two dates six almonds for cash and actually that calculus or the equation was on the back of the

packet oh that was the ingredient list is how people described your brand i feel like that's reversed yeah yeah and so we really dramatically needed to improve our communication of our value proposition to stand out. And we went for it. And it was a bit of a contrarian thing because it was like the brand was super small. It was like a stamp on the upper corner. There was no appetite appeal. There was no really bad flavor communication.

It was sort of like not good classically trained design for CBG. It was like actually not good. But, you know, a lot of communications inherent in. the format, right? If you're in the bar set, you don't need to tell someone, it's like obvious it's a bar. Brand kind of doesn't really matter that much. So we just really chose, you know, strategies choosing what not to do. We just pick the only thing that people care about and just went online on that. The ingredients. So the RX bar just says the ingredients on the front instead of just on the back. And that's what caught people's attention. And does that first package,

does it look pretty much the same as what we see today on the shelves? Yeah. So then the exit, four years later, that's it. You're like 30 years old. You sell the Kellogg for $600 million. Got to be like the fastest, biggest food exit since sliced bread, right, Jack? Yeah, what's the first thing you did after selling the company? For $600 million.

Honestly, I just went back to work. Yeah, I didn't really do anything. Didn't want to celebrate. I know this sounds psychotic perhaps, but no champagne because you were keto at the time or something? Well, I think the real reason is like myself as a shareholder sold. Yeah. But I was I was the CEO and I didn't lose, like I still had my job. So I really decoupled like, I don't, founder doesn't mean anything. So like as a shareholder I sold, but I'm still the CEO and I didn't want to convolut or like, you know, those are two separate things. And I think entrepreneurs getting real trouble when they basically take advantage of those like being an owner or something.

So that's how I thought about it. And I wanted to show to my team that like, you know, nope, we're still going. Did you have a vested interest in their success at Kellogg? No, I had no economic incentive or anything, but I stayed around for just sort of ethically was the right thing to do. I stayed around for about a year and a half to transition it. Well, also, we got to point out this small legal detail here that actually is a big impact on your life. you had a five-year non-compete. Like, for five years, you could not get into the bar business again.

The only bar you could work for was the RX bar at Kellogg. Right. So, like, what did you do with that time for five years? Are you, are you bored? Are you testing ideas? Are you investing? Like, where are you going with this time?

Yeah. So I was bored. Like, there's, like, this crisis of identity of it because, like, I was the RX bar guy and now it's not me anymore. So that was annoying. because I decoupled emotionally pretty quickly. And so I always, you know, I love business.

I love projects. I love making stuff. I love being useful. So I kind of quickly started the journey of like, all right, what's next? And then, you know, started wandering. And then part of that like discovery process of wandering, I do think is like investing, learning about other companies, different markets, different sectors. And I like go towards an idea, sort of chicken out.

And then like, you know, go towards an idea. chicken out because like when I commit it's like you know I get sort of like pretty deep into something so I got like kind of fear of commitment issues and then when my the horizon emerged of the termination of the non-compete I was like I have to do I guess I got to do this going back in I'm the bar guy and when I'm like tombstone it's going to say the bar guy I'm totally okay with that So were you like telling people like, all right, I might do another bar. I'm thinking of bar ideas. Basically, what I did is I told enough.

I had this like plan. It was around re-reserrecting power bar. And I just told enough people. And I told so many people that I had to do it. You created pressure on yourself kind of accidentally. Yes. Indirectly. The momentum was unstoppable.

Your reputation was on the line. They're like, aren't you doing another bar, man? Yeah. And like that really happened. So. What did you tell people? I'm going to do a better bar than the RX bar? I didn't say that.

I don't compare it. I was just like, I got this plan. My non-compete's coming up. There's this iconic brand that has a lot of equity that is six feet underground. This is my idea. And we're going to do it. And then so I was like, all right, October 6th was my non-compete expiration. And like, as it got closer, I was like, all right, let's get to figure this out.

So then you launch David Barr. You're now back with the subject of today's show, the David Bar. Although, got to point out, before we dive in T-boy style to David Bar, you're operating in the same industry competing with your first company, RX Bar. Is that like awkward with Kellogg? Was Kellogg pissed? Yeah. You know, Kellogg, they sold to Cal and they sold to Mars.

Yeah. So I think like right before I started, David, they sold. And so they were kind of checked out. You're not even like buddies with those guys anymore. You could have violated non-compete. Nobody would have noticed. I don't know about that. No, if I would have launched before, they would have enforced it.

Okay, so David Barr, you launch something. And as Jack and I are looking at David Barr, the most viral bar of the year, here's how we're looking at it. It kind of almost appears like you're doing the opposite of the RX bar, right? Like instead of four ingredients, it's like 40 ingredients. Instead of this simple colored packaging, it's all gold packaging. Instead of a kind of confusing name that alludes to CrossFit, it's named after a Renaissance sculpture.

And it is hyper-focused on one thing, delivering you protein as efficiently as possible. I'm looking at the label right now, 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, zero sugar. Okay, so what made you create something? That's the opposite of the first thing you created that you sold for millions of dollars. So in studying the market and studying consumers,

the question is like, what do people really want in a protein bar? And what people really want is a protein delivery system with as much protein and the least amount of calories. So that's what we set out to design. And nutrition, I've been in nutrition since I was like 14. It's mostly emotional. It's not really intellectual. And so you see these passing trends of these restriction diets that don't have much logic. They're just, they're simple hacks to explain something.

But they're fundamentally reducing calories. are reducing, restricting something. Like, nutrition's come a long way, and we're sort of, I was just became agnostic to nutrition trends and more focused on some like principles underlying nutrition. And so the three principles that I follow for nutrition around first, the first tenet is really getting adequate amount of protein is really important. You don't have to overdo it, but like it's, it's the most essential macronutrient. The other two are energy.

and it turns out we have no problem getting energy in our society today. The second one would be calories do matter. Like, it turns out just don't overeat calories. It's so, so important. Even if you overeat 200 calories every day, like after 10 years, it's a problem. So calories matter. And then three, don't over, don't over consume sugar. Like, you don't want that.

And so those are the three principles that were that we used to design. our nutrition phosphate, influence our product. Okay, so just to sum those up also for the Yeti's listening, your three principles on fundamental food are getting adequate amounts of protein, calories do matter, and don't over-consume sugar. Yes. So those are the three things set on the package.

Yeah, and that's what matters in a protein book. That's what you launched with David, and what are the latest numbers from David, because it's been less than a year since you launched, but as of August 2025. What sales are you expecting for the first 12 months of the business? I think 100 million first 12 months. Our first full year will be around 150, 160.

Nice. Once again, this product launched less than a year ago, Besties. On pace for 150 million this year. Now a quick word from our sponsor. So the brand is called David. It's named after the statue that Michelangelo carved in Italy. It evokes perfection. I've never seen it in person.

Nick has, and Nick has told me. me about it. I've gone back three times, Jack, because it left me breathless. Now, the David statute is chiseled. Is the subliminal message you will be, too, if this is your protein bar? Wait, was that a question? It was. It was. Or is the answer obviously yes. Yeah, it's obvious. Yeah. Well, what is your fundamental philosophy here for a great brand, considering you're doing something so different with David Barr than you do with RX bar? Brands kind of abstracts. So I try to see like a great brand is, it's just identity.

It's very similar to a human, right? What is its name? Who are as parents or her parents? What are their values? What language do they speak? How do they speak? What clothes do they wear? Who do they not like?

What are their values? So the clearer those are and the more consistent you are, the stronger the brand typically is. And how did that lead you to a purely gold bar? Is there any psychology behind the way you guys have done something so different? Jack and I always say, don't be better, be different. You guys have created something different with a pure gold bar. It reminds us of Charlie and the chocolate factory.

So the big strategy, this is like a very tactful one, but I think it's important. I think the audience will like it. So if you looked at the protein bar or nutrition bar market and the category, if you just shop it, it's actually defined by flavor, not brand. So for example, our export, for example, you shop it, it's organized by flavor, and then there's a small mark for the brand. So the brand is a secondary part of communication. Okay, I see this now. Yeah.

So our strategy, very taxable, was we want brand to be the primary communication. And so if you see in the store, it's all gold. And so when you see it, it really works hard. It's called a brand block. And so that was like no one else is doing that in the cat. leading with brand is the primary color, and then communicating flavor as a secondary color. So those are very intentional, tactical thing.

And when it's done, it just works hard on shelf. Yeah, like the rest of bars, and I think about it, they're all different colors to reflect the flavor. Red for raspberry, blue for blueberry. Yes. But you guys are just one color. And so you literally take up more eye space. Yeah, like the categories, like it's very similar to like craft beer.

If you go to like craft beer and Whole Foods, it looks like a kaleoscope. Yeah. I'm just like, I'm just like, they all look good, I guess. And so that was very intentional, tactical thing. And then gold, so just like look up the meaning of gold. It's premium. It's luxurious.

It's beauty. It's actually feminine. And so that was another tension point around like David's super masculine. Protein's arguably masculine, but then gold is quite feminine. Yeah. And that's a beautiful, great brands have this. beautiful tension. And so that's another component. Another tension point is that the David Bar is best in market in terms of protein per calorie. So that's that's efficiency. Yes. But the statute of

David is not efficiency. It's beauty and perfection. That's just another interesting tension point. Yeah. We want we wanted to objectively measure to make something objective, nutrition, super subjective and emotional. How do we make it objective? The way you should be looking at snacks or processed food is how much of the food's calories are coming from protein, the higher the better. It's more value. And then if you do that, the outcome is beauty. The statute. Well, what was the second place idea behind David?

That's a really good question. So David was clearly the outlier. There was really no second. But I think the second was like pylon. something like I'm like, we're not going to any words, but it won't kill us. You know, that's the goal. Don't kill us. Sounds like it didn't get past the ideation phase. Peter, David Barr is the most viral food of 2025, not just because you recently hit a $725 million

valuation, but because you launched fish, cod fish. We covered this on the pot a couple months ago. Our takeaway when we covered it is that you are selling a virtue signal. Yeah. You showed the world just how committed you were to protein by offering a borderline ridiculous product because it wasn't about the product. It was about what the product signals.

The pursuit of protein in a package. You basically made all your competition look like a snack bar and you guys a protein company. So we were curious, what's your takeaway? Why'd you guys launch it? A couple, couple things. One would be my second time. And I just want to do bold things a bit.

And then, and then two, it was like, I think we thought it was like a clever riddle to showcase the value of our core product. Like, turns out getting 20 grams, like getting a lot of protein in a bar, format like ours is really difficult and usually expensive. And another thing, so one, it communicates the value of a product. Two, there are people who are expecting RX bar 2.0 who are like too many ingredients. And it's like, okay, like you're not like don't eat a protein bar then because it's a processed food. So, so we wanted to come out with a single ingredient innovation. That is more reminiscent of RX bar. A folia fish.

And it just shows, yeah, it's expensive and inconvenient. And, like, I think a lot of people underappreciate, like, taste, convenience, and price. Okay, so you're kind of, like, also showing attention here with your actual product. You're basically saying, okay, we're launching a codfish because if you want a single ingredient product, this is it in one form. It's the best protein to calorie ratio of product out there. You're kind of challenging them to do it, right? It's like, okay, you don't want to process bark?

Okay, go have a codfish. Yeah, and you still have to process it once you get it because you've got to boil it. Right. It's kind of like going on a double date and picking your ugliest friend to come with you to showcase how beautiful you are. You look better by comparison. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm thinking of all these times you invite me to dinner, Jack, with Alex. We also were curious though, Peter, you know, as you were brainstorming this idea to launch codfish as a protein bar company, were there some runners up?

Like, were you guys considering bison? Were you going to ship steaks? Like, well, what else it was on the drawing? Well, no, it was just this. because when we launched the company, we wanted a comparison table. And we didn't want to be number one. You can't, like, believe the comparison table

if you're number one. It just sort of throws it off the window. We want to be number two. And so this was really, credit goes to our Peter Attia for this. He was like, we can't be number one. And so he started searching for, like, what is a better of protein to calorie ratio product?

And it was boiled cod. And it's just funny because it's like cod. It's like a funny word, actually. and then like, it has to be boiled, which is like an appetizing thing. And so it was just funny. We left it there. Like, that was our launch thing. Yeah.

It started getting picked up. And so then it was just like, all right, like, we should just start selling it. It's the best. So the sushi restaurant is on the year two agenda, is what you're saying. David sushi. Don't just close our secrets. It's off the record. So, Peter, you recently raised $75 million at a $725,000.

million dollar valuation. Incredible achievement for such a young company. So we were curious because we're also on our second company. We're second time entrepreneurs in the same industry. How much of that valuation is simply because you're a second time founder and you know what the heck you're doing this time? Probably, you know, I think having experience in a pedigree gives investors a lot of confidence, just demonstrating good judgment. So it certainly helps. And it also helps with the acquisition about epigy because their team, you know, we merge with them as well. So like they had confidence in the leader that has the experience to do things. Yeah, so it probably had a lot to do with it.

And let's talk about epigies. Yeah, because we just talked about your viral moment. We should also talk about your most controversial moment. Let's do it. So you use that fundraise to acquire the critical protein supplier for your products. And interrupt me if I'm saying anything is wrong. Epigy makes, let's call it super protein. It effectively lets your protein bar have a higher protein-calorie ratio than any other ingredient.

You acquire that supplier, and your competitors actually sue you for it on anti-competitive grounds, claiming you've created a monopoly. And then Jack and I noticed, as we were researching the story, you actually said, we're taking all the supply of protein. Which was probably quoted verbatim in the lawsuit as evidence of the anti-competitive behavior. So because you got sued by your competitors, you bought the critical ingredient maker to so many protein companies. And it turned into a bit of a PR catastrophe. How do you feel about it? Any regrets? Or was it the right move? Is it the right move? David is Epigy's biggest customer. We are running the businesses. It's a subsidiary. So it's standing alone. And David's the biggest customer. David has a contract to buy all the available supply.

And we didn't expect this sort of demand or revenue. So, you know, building an ingredient supply chain takes a lot of time. And in general, for the company, it's a huge risk. It's not like you can go to other places to buy this ingredient. So securing the supply, buying them, and scaling the manufacturing of the EPG was like mission critical. It's almost like this is your rare. metal is this protein bar company. And if you're going to make computer chips,

you know, you need access to this random silicon bifosphorate, but you guys needed a protein company. So does Epigy have IP protection and they're the only one who can make this stuff? Yeah, they have process patents and application patents. So it's intellectual property. Is there any possibility that you'd scale up production

and sell to other companies? Protein as a service, basically? Yeah. We do, once, we get supply and capacity, we plan to run an epigy as its own business with its own goals. I mean, it's a huge public health thing. If we can remove a ton of calories for the American diet,

that's what you want to do. You're going to go to court and be like, chill out plaintiffs. We're going to scale up production. We'll eventually get to you. But right now, all our supplies go into the David Bar. Eventually we'll become a pass company. Protein as a surface.

Well, let's talk about snobos again. Can you remind us of that abbreviation, Yes, I can, Jack. That would be small niches are big opportunities. And with RX bar, your snobo was CrossFit. CrossFit users. So with David Barr, do you have a snobo? Is your snobo considering these protein ratios, OZempic users? It's certainly not comparable to RX. Like, RX was a cross-fit. The cross-tune niches was like 2 million people. The early adopters of David are probably around like 40 million people. You know, it's like people who are health conscious, people who listen to Atia and Huberman, you know, you could be Ozambic people

or people who are trying to lose weight, people who are trying to get one gram of protein per pound of body weight. But it's not the same niche. I don't, it's a pretty big market. So like, we didn't follow that strategy necessarily. Okay. So David Barr is going more mainstream than you did with RX Bar. Especially given that protein is. It's been so. Jack, I want to talk some numbers here? Well, let's talk your cap table. It includes Peter Attia, who you've mentioned already. and Andrew Huberman, the big health podcaster. How important do you think it is for founders to get strategic partners who have a vested interest in your success? Yeah, these like-minded, maybe highly influential investors like Huberman.

So it depends. Of course, it depends on the game or the market or the marketing problem you need to solve. As it relates to nutrition, you know, I think it's really important from a credibility standpoint. and Dr. Atia is basically America's doctor. Like, and he's going to have a voice for a long time. He's incredible. He's rigorous. He's really impressive.

And then Huberman, I call him America's researcher. Like, he synthesizes cool, new things and health and wellness. He's going to have a voice for a long time. He's rigorous. He's incredible. So it certainly helps. And particularly nutrition where there's this massive confusion. Like, our society is totally confused on nutrition.

Everyone with a mic sort of just talks about it. And so having authoritarian figures who are rigorous, I think is super, super important. Was it part of the strategy? Like Jack and I were curious, like, when you were brainstorming, I'm going to launch David Barber. We're like, I got to get Huberman involved. I got to get this big health podcaster involved on the team, invested and incentivized. Or was that just a happy accident? No, it was very intentional.

So the way we think about it is like there are muses. You know, like the fashion houses that we use is they designed for. There are two muses. We designed for them. Peter, Atia, and Andrew Huberman. Did they influence your launch? Did they say, like, I'll get on board if you do this? I don't, the relationship we have is like, I don't, we don't ask for stuff.

You don't want to be an annoying partner and be like, can you do this? But I love this vision. I mean, there's something very kind of like Italian 15th century. renaissance of you guys between the muses and the sculptures. Like there's an artistic way of thinking about the whole company beyond entrepreneurship. Yeah. Like what I love about the business and the market we're in is it's this beautiful combination of art and science.

Mm-hmm. And I love them. Well, when it comes to trends in working out, I should point out, Peter, Jack always used to bench press me in college. Jack always used to spot me on the bench press in college because he could bench so much more than me. I actually would need support if I were helping him out. But we've noticed these trends throughout our lives. You know, boomers were focused on diets as their primary form of health. Millennials focused on wellness. Gen Z seems to want to live forever. So are we

experiencing a new shift today into longevity? And is David Barr a part of that? Yeah, I'd say so. And it's probably driven by boomers getting old and dying. Or, you know, like, so it's not, I don't I think it's just Jim Z. And there's a lot of influential people shaping that, you know, Brian Johnson, Tia. So I don't see it going away either. But I do, you know, these things come like they peak and then slow down. I don't know what's next, though.

I think that's the right question. It's like, what is next? Where does this meander to? Because that's always fun to predict, but I don't know where it's going. We love your theory that you need three moats to have a sustainable, defendable business. Can you share with us your three modes theory? Yeah.

You've talked before about competitive advantages. You can't just rely on one anymore. Yeah, I would say it's really important. And consumer goods, one of them is brand, which is abstract and takes a long time. And it's very hard to build a brand. You've got to be super consistent. The brand is one. Another one would be sort of, you call it sort of distribution, like scale, trade secrets even.

That's a fragile mode. I think it's even cross it. And then the other one would be IP, intellectual property. It could be a form of trade secrets, but those are the three modes. And that was on the pitch deck that got you that fundraised, the $725 million valuation. Brand trade secrets and IP. I'd love to hear that you have all three of those things. How did you guys get the deck?

Page 15. By the way, Peter, why do you think you need three modes now? Why is that changed in the last 20 years? Why do entrepreneurs need to be able to defend themselves so deeply? the huge moat. The reason why is especially in American culture, there's always this insatiable need for novelty. So the tea sets in, food fashion, people want new stuff. You constantly have to do novelty. And then it's kind of easy to make stuff. So like someone's going to copy you. And what that does is just destroys your margin. You're competing on price. Yeah, it's violent.

The dup's coming after David. But Peter, we're actually on the same wavelength here. Right? Because you just mentioned two of the three Fs, right, Jack? One of our long-held thesis about the markets is that there are three industries most vulnerable to fads. You named two of them already, but they all start with an FAS. Fashion, fitness, and food. The three FFs of Fats.

Nick and I have been covering business news for 15 years, and we have seen fads every couple years in all three of those. It's wild. How consistent that the thing of the moment is not going to be the thing of the moment in a few years. We're still Peloton shareholders, for example. We're hoping for a comeback there, but who knows? We even knew during the IPO for Peloton, like we looked at Nordic Track, and we even asked

the Peloton co-founder, are you just the current Nordic track? He's like, of course we're not. Seems like he was. Someone knows this some money. But even in the food industry, you know, your core customer has moved through food fads from paleo to keto to fasting to carnivore. So we were curious, why is protein not a fad? Why would protein be a long-term trend, or is it not?

Two reasons. The first one, protein isn't just for bodybuilding. The evidence is like super clear. It's like the most valuable macronutrient. It's great for weight management or body composition. It's the most satiating one. So there's so much value. Unlike fat and carbohydrates, which are just energy. And again, it's easy to get that. So there's like a clear understanding and there's a health component. it. And so regardless of where health goes, it's pretty stable. It's pretty evidence-based that protein is that important. And then the second one is you go to Google Trends. Plot out, paleo, keto, fasting, carnivore. You see some sort of violent spike and decline. Protein would just be a slow ascend. And so if the faster something grows, the more, the more, you see some, the more grows, the more likely it is to die. The slower something grows, the least likely it is to die. Interesting. So you might feel that protein's peaking right now. And it's sure, it's like, it's accelerated compared to its past year over year. But this has been a long, slow journey

of awareness. And it's not, and it's also objective. It's measurable. It's objective. It's not, it's not like an emotional thing. Peter, Nick mentioned Ozzympic earlier. We were curious if you're targeting Ozempic users. But we actually have another thesis that OZempic is, you know, not just any old drug or any old fad. We think this is kind of a once-in-a-generation thing. And it's possible that the introduction of these GLP-1 drugs makes protein not a fad. Let's call it a perma-fat because OZepic is here for good. And we know OZempec users crave protein. Yeah, so we don't market to Zemphic. And here's the reason. If you take OZempec, the first message you're going to get is make sure you eat protein and do resistance training. That will

mitigate the downsides of OZemphic. So that messaging is what everyone's, every doctor is talking about. And so we don't really need to, we're just sort of surfing that wave. Yeah, that's kind of downer messaging. A couple other questions. for you, Peter. What's the most important failure you've had in your career? Because right now we've talked about all these incredible successes. I'm no stranger to failure. Okay. Well, the most important failure was my first marriage. It just taught me a lot and taught me how to be a better person and sort of was like a painful mirror into my weaknesses. What did it teach you?

seek feedback, slow the fuck down, be more compassionate. You know, I focused so much my career on my career in my 20s. I wasn't able to really develop some personal stuff as much. And then it turns out to be good in your career, you need like a good home. Like just shifting some of those, some of my focus towards making sure my home and like personal life is good. It was important. If you go home to chaos, you're not going to be good. You're like, you're just going to be distracted at work or you're just not going to

have the energy. Nick and I were side hustle entrepreneurs. We had a full-time day jobs in finance when we started this company. And I was constantly just moving a million miles an hour. It was hard to ever relax and not be reactive and be proactive. And yeah, I feel like I had a breakup, not a marriage breakup, but a breakup where it was like absolutely just a moment where I was like, Jesus. I need to like stop, pause, reflect, and like think to myself, should I keep doing the things I'm doing? Because I'm just so constantly in like cruise control, you know, trying to get to inbox zero, trying to tackle that task.

Yeah. I feel like I've had a moment of just like, pause, reflect, decide should I keep doing this. Yeah. Sometimes going slower to go faster. You know, in this journey you've been on, because, man, you've been on such an entrepreneurial journey. Like just, you know, beginning with your family in the food industry and then for you to get such a huge exit in the food industry. And then to come back, take a second swing and hit another home run, really a grand slam. Like you just mentioned this.

Like you go so hard and so intense. You did CrossFit. Like, are there things you just get obsessed with that you are, that you care about beyond a reason? Yeah, I'm like really focused, really upset. and then I just like remove stuff like laser focused prioritization and that's why like when I was looking for my next move I had this commitment fear because like I knew if I go down that path like it's like you're in it you're in it you're in it and um so yeah just like I'm just very intense I think I was born that way or maybe I have a chip on my shoulder environmental and you know

in nature I don't know I know you mean, Peter, because one reason I didn't do drugs growing up is because I know I get so intense about stuff. It would have been a problem. Now a quick word from our sponsor. You know, another thing, Jack, I want to share with you, as we were researching the story, and we care about our subjects and go really deep on trying to understand them, but there's something we really admire about you. And it's the way you act publicly, like on LinkedIn, which is how we first became familiar with you.

You know, we noticed your comments are just real. You're snarky. There's nothing corporate. Like, there's no PR person holding you back. Like, there's one post we saw. Remember this, Jack, where someone commented that David Barr was going to fail because the founder, Peter, the co-founder, Peter, has no patience. And you commented on that post making fun of you. And you said, yeah, I got zero patience. We were like, that's amazing. Like, what other company would let someone do that? But you're just wrong with it. Where does that come from? Is it a strategy? or is it just personal fun? It's a little bit of personal fun, but like honesty is like a really important value of mine. Like I just like have to be honest. Like I can't lie.

And then I saw like I posted that. Like it's hilarious. And so I just like, you know, I wasn't tagged in it either. And so I just saw it. I'm like, he's basically saying like, he's basically saying like clouds of distraction

is Peter Bore. And I'm like, like, It was just funny because I'm actually like crazy focused, but I'm totally impatient. So I just saw it's funny. We'll drop the link to Peter's LinkedIn and the show notes. But so Peter, we do know that you're obsessed with protein efficiency in your products. What's something about David that you're obsessed with that might surprise people?

I'm obsessed with like the nuances of the product that are like just getting the texture right. texture and flavor right is what I'm obsessed with. How did you get chocolate chips in there without adding sugar? Yeah, they're protein chocolate chips. Is that one of your modes? Yeah, that's a trace of your mode. Oh, so can we not share that publicly on the pot? Let's slide 16 in the deck.

It's one of those things we're like, you can try to make protein chocolate. It's really hard. Yeah, you're like, good luck, guys. You know, Jack, as we're like, listen to all this, it's funny. You just said, you just said, Peter, that, like, it's, It's not simple. But like one theme of yours, and you just mentioned this with like being honest and the honesty that you love. And sharing that really powerful detail about your first marriage is simplicity.

Like with RX bar, the whole brand was about simplicity. David Barr, for all the ingredients, it comes down to a very simple concept. The way you interact with other people publicly, unlike any other CEO, it's just, it's driven by one thing. Honesty. It's simplicity. Is simplicity like your love language? I don't know who quoted this, but I use it all the time. If I had more time, I'd write a shorter essay.

Oh, that's Mark Twain. That's Mark Twins. We love it, too. And I think, like, getting to the gist is a real skill, just the way my brain is, or I don't know why, but I love getting the essence of something. I think making things simple is an art, and I think it's really important in business and communication. Yeah, so I would say simple. I love simplicity. Peter, we'd love to bring you down with some rapid-fire questions.

This show is called The Best One Yet. So we want to ask, what are your best ones yet? What industry is begging for its David Bar viral codfish moment? Chocolate. It's boring. What is your dream David collab? David, Emily Redottowska. What snack do you always have stocked?

That isn't a David bar. Dried mangoes. That's high sugar, man. Who's the best business leader you admire the most? I look at it up to Jeff Bezos as a manager. I think organizationally, what he did at Amazon is like as a model I look at. And then Elon actually as a leader, I think his messaging, communication, missions, and his cultures are really hardcore, but like super focused.

What's the best lesson you would share with other second time founders? It's all about people. The connections you made? No, recruiting the best talent. and that's what it was about. I got one more, Jack. I got one more. Peter, what is the best cheat day you've ever had?

I perform gluttony with pizza. And Chicago Deep Dish, just, that's the best cheat day. Tuesdays are for Deep Dish. Yes. Finally, we always let our guests tell us the takeaway on the show. So, Peter, can you tell us the takeaway on David Protein? The takeaway is, we've designed a scud missile of protein that is

and we have a lot of great stuff coming and building a generational company. Blink twice if one of them is a sushi restaurant, Peter. For those listening, may have been a blink. Mark McGuire would have hit 80 home runs if you'd just take a David Barr. And they would have bought them off the hook. All right.

Peter, this has been a really fun conversation. We love how fresh and unpolished and, let's say, unfiltered your responses have been. We think that that's what makes for a compelling person and a compelling leader these days. Thank you for getting so personal with this, too, and for sharing all these things, you know, from what it's like growing up with dyslexia to your marriage, to what you're obsessed with, which is everything you're building right now, which is incredible. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Really appreciate your time.

Love your guys show. Thank you.