The Besties - Best Console (Not Including the Games) (Patreon Bonus)

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

As a holiday treat, the Besties brings one of our most beloved Patreon bracket episodes to the main feed.What is the greatest video game console of all time? Before you answer that, we have one huge caveat: you can't factor in the quality of the games. We literally mean "what is the best chunk of plastic, chips, power cords, and peripherals?" Is this the most ridiculous question the Besties have sought to answer? We will leave you to decide. Get the full list of games (and other stuff) discussed at www.besties.fan. Want more episodes? Join us at patreon.com/thebesties for three bonus episodes each month!

Hey everyone, we have a very special gift for y'all. You're about to hear an episode we had a lot of fun recording. It was a Bracket Battles episode, one of many that we've recorded on the Patreon that's behind the paywall. But everyone gets it for free! And this is the one that the Patreon members picked. You guys remember recording this episode? It was pretty fun. It's like a fever dream. Yeah, it's an unhinged episode where we pick the best console

that don't talk about games. Well, I'll be damned. What the fuck? It's me, magical Texas giraffe. This is supposed to be a gift. This is like an intro. I am a Patreon subscriber, and I didn't know that on top of being a lawyer who has been graciously funding

this series that you would be releasing one of my behind the scenes episodes, and yet I do declare one of the best episodes, I'll grant you this time to share it with the public on my behalf So if you want more Texas magic giraffe patreon.com slash the besties he's huge over there She was a whole alternate fiction. I'll show myself out Good are you sure yourself in it seems only fair?

This is an episode where he picked the best console, but don't talk about video games at all. It's really good. Enjoy. Enjoy Dreamcast the best Dreamcast the best you say. Wait let me try let me try again because I need to say I'm more authoritative because I'm trying to say this a little bit at a time. It sounded like you were taking it sounded like you were taking a bong rip when you said that. I was trying to get my like that was my voice I was going for Guys, Dreamcast the best. I was trying to see if I could skip the episode, if I could just be like, Dreamcast the best. Whenever it'd be like, Dreamcast. And then it wouldn't even be an episode.

I mean, Plant is on board for Dreamcast the best. I was ready for it, but- You just walk away. I figure we owe the people what they want, you know? We have to at least put on the charade. I forgot. For probably a little more than just Dreamcast the best. I forgot about our wild rubric though.

I don't know if it's gonna come out on top, but I thought it would be worth floating Dreamcast the Best and then just see how it played. Griffin, do you think Dreamcast the Best? I don't know about the Best. It makes me sad that we don't live in a world where Sega was allowed to keep fucking up in huge and expensive and spectacular ways.

Because Dreamcast not the Best, but Dreamcast does have the VMU but Dreamcast does have the VMU, Dreamcast does have Phantasy Star Online and Shenmue. No, fuck it, Dreamcast's the best, what am I saying? Justin is- You can't bring games into it, but Dreamcast's the best. Justin, book a 19th century- I didn't expect to rush to pick up Dreamcast the best

so fast, but the way it got on so quick really tickled me. I feel like I just sent out a fax to everybody in town, and I know the best console of all time. My name is Griffin McElroy. I know the best console of all time. My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best console of all time if you take away the games, which would seem to be self-defeating But it's what we're here to do today. Don't you undo progress? We're about to make before we even make it My name is Ross Russian. I'm the best game of the week. This is the besties

It's video game club and just by listening you are a member But you know this spiel because you're here for our exclusive behind the velvet rope extra sexy after dark super naughty. I do not agree to battle that. We even made like new exclusive box art. McKay made like album art specific to this feed. The B4. B4, the bonus besties battle, baby.

The bony's. Welcome to the bony's. Welcome to the bony's. The bonus besties battle, baby. The B4. B4 bony's welcome to the bone ease welcome to the bony's the bonus besties battle, baby the before before bony's Hey listen, we're gonna be picking the best video game console But we can't talk about the games well we can like me like the games aren't part of the rubric, right? You mention the title of a game. I'm gonna lose my fucking mind You can't win. You mention the title of a game, I'm gonna lose my fucking mind.

You cannot, a console cannot win in a matchup because it had a game that was better than the other consoles. That's right. So let's dive into the rubric then. How does a console win without its games? Very valid question. So ordinarily, if you've been a regular listener of these bracket battles episodes, you know that we've had a pretty simple rubric.

It's usually two points and then a tiebreaker point in case the two points are tied. I thought in this case, actually I really tried to boil the rubric down, but in this case was unable to. And now we have six points and a tiebreaker. The first fucking question is which box looks cooler? Yeah, that is important.

That has to be the backbone of the conversation every time. I don't know what else we're talking about. It's true, it's true. It's priorities. Okay, so. I think it's pretty straightforward. So here's the rubric, I'll read through it quickly because we have a lot to cover.

Rubric one, which box looks cooler? Pretty straightforward. Two, which was more innovative in terms of features? So this is like, oh, this was the first that had a rumble pack, this was the first that had like online support, shit like that. Okay. Three, which has the more comfortable controller?

Pretty straightforward. Four, which has the cooler looking controller? Which controller do you wanna have sex with more? Oh, that's very important. Rose, I'm not actually doing that. Just, it's like subtext. So five is which has the better system UI, and that's obviously assuming if it exists,

some of these don't even have a system UI. And then six, which is more portable if you had to bring it to a friend's house? I will say up ahead, GameCube's fucking winning that one every time because it has a fucking handle. That's all it's got. That's a lock.

The intro stinger and the handle is the only thing the GameCube really has. Now, here's my question about this. In your head, Russ, do you feel like this is an up and down six point thing or do you think this more holistic rubric? It's a conversation starter. It's just more conversational.

Or do you think it's like you win? I think if it's tough to decide, we should do an up and down. Okay, I hope this is the rubric we're using generally. I like that, I think that's gonna be more fruitful. We have not shared the tiebreaker, which is which name is cooler. Yeah, so what we're saying is,

we're gonna use this to come to a consensus And if we can't come to a consensus Then we'll have to rely rigidly on the room right and if the rubric still ties out The name we're well it won't because it has a tiebreaker. That's I mean that's when we'll go to the yes If it's a tie we use the tiebreaker,breaker. I think we all agree on that. I like this. So issue two, before we get started, there's too many fucking consoles. Way too many. True.

And to get it down to 16, which is what we normally do, and to keep this focused, we're gonna have to cut all but two PlayStations and two Xboxes. Yes, I like that. So if anyone has any initial thoughts, and just as a reminder, we're talking about PlayStation 1 through PlayStation 5, and Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox One.

I refuse, I fucking refuse to consider the Series X versus the Series S as too different. For the purposes of our conversation it is Outrageous to think that we have very different boxes. Let me put it this way I don't think we need to worry about that. We're certainly not gonna do the Xbox one I think we can hey listen right now We're just throwing the pool cues in into the pit and there is no rules here We're just we're just gonna take two of them with them you you eight decide who makes it out We don't care God God's light doesn't make it here.

PlayStation 2 is gonna be there, right? That seems safe to us. I think, yeah, I think PlayStation 2, I think any of the four of us could make a pretty good case for the PlayStation 2 being there. In terms of ahead of its times-ness, in terms of like introducing a user interface. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I think it's the PlayStation 2 and the PlayStation 5, because I think the PlayStation 5

has the controller aspects, and it's certainly the one that everyone is most- I see, I would say four over five. I would say four over five, as evidenced by the fact that I played my four a lot, and I've played my five to play Sony exclusive PlayStation 5 games pretty much exclusively. That's a fair cop.

And then never again. Okay, okay. I think PS4 I- I was looking back, compat. I have a slight issue here with the system UI rubric, right? Are we, I mean, is that fair in these contexts because that's very much iterative, right? So like you could argue that five and four

have the best UI of the PlayStations because that they've much iterative, right? So like, you could argue that five and four have the best UI of the PlayStations because they've been building on, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know that it makes sense to limit. Yeah, is there ever, like, is a UI from 10 years ever gonna be better? I feel like that's always gonna be a... Although I would argue the Blades on the Xbox 360.

If you like the Xbox One interface more than the Xbox 360 interface, you are a... a fudnut. Okay, that's actually true. Yeah, fair. Well, I think the Xbox answers this question very well. I think the Xbox normal, the original, and the Xbox 360 are the two to go forward. I would agree with that. Yeah, right?

The Xbox is a significant console. It's a weird fucking console that did a ton of shit. Yes. Yeah, okay, a very cool name too. I would agree. So, uh, and 360 was obviously like the peak of where Xbox ever was. Okay, I agree with that. It's been a down slide since 360. We all know that. They had a blaze of gear. Okay, so that leaves us with,

we're bringing forward the PlayStation 2 and the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox and the Xbox 360, correct? Okay. Argument on the PlayStation? It's not an argument on the PlayStation. I think it's, the proximity to the Dreamcast limits a lot of why PlayStation seems so sort of like

groundbreaking at the time. Like the leap from cartridge to CD-like media, I don't know that there's a more significant jump in terms of consoles. I would do PlayStation 1 and PS2 for that reason. I agree. I think there's a more interesting conversation to be had about the original PlayStation. Then PlayStation, I think a lot of the points I would make about PlayStation 4 are upgraded versions of the points

I'd make about to it's like yeah, it's not just DVD y'all. It's a blu-ray this time. What about hey? Can I throw this out there and this may be kind of anecdotal what about reliability? Oh? well then Yeah, I mean Oh, well then, because like, you know what I'm saying? I like that. I like that a lot. Well, there goes the 360. The 360's gone. A lot. Yeah. I mean, the 360, if we're talking about what is box is best, one of the boxes you had to

wrap a towel around and bring back to life. Do we want to kill the UI thing in favor of reliability? Yes. I like that. No, I think the UI thing is, maybe we fold it into something else. Hey, can we get, can we just make three can we combine? Better like who are looking and more comfortable controller into one Say I like to know

I also just remind you before we get too lost in in in the the rubric the whole change here is that it is conversation starters that in theory we won't even have to get down to the nitty gritty of like Yeah, and I would I would say if you want to talk if you want to talk about the UI stuff that it is conversation starters. That in theory we won't even have to get down into the nitty gritty of like, yeah, check my, check my. And I would say if you wanna talk, if you wanna talk about the UI stuff, you can talk about it in the context of features. Yeah. So we have a rubric for features.

So I think that's a good place to talk about UI and we'll add reliability here as well. And you can follow along at home if you want. I'm loving it. So are we saying- The rubric is probably in the newsletter. So are we saying PlayStation 1 and 2 and then the Xbox 1 and 360 completely- If we're talking about reliability, I gotta revisit one now.

Because I had a lot of pals that had to play Tonya Hart Pro Skater with that bad boy flipped upside down because it no longer responded properly. Yeah, that's a good point. Let's I would say I will I think PlayStation 2 and and 4 That's where my that's where my heart is leading me. I Mean reliability is only one point on the rubric for what it's worth. Yeah, so innovate I mean looks cool. What do you guys think about the look of the PlayStation 1? I think it looks fucking awesome. Good right like in? Like, in terms of a console design, I wanna eat it. It's up there with the Dreamcast. I think, I would say, real talk, I think it looks better than any other PlayStation console

ever made. I don't disagree. I think they've all been kind of blobby black shapes. We gotta get into the main thing. Yeah, we do. You're right. Okay. I think it's PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2.

Okay. That's where I've landed. I think those are both very representative of the biggest leaps that have happened and everything else after that, while there have been highlights, has been iterative. Okay, I agree. I would push towards PlayStation 2 and 3

because I think the online jump in 3 is such a massive change. There was online in 2. You could play online. You could. So calm, baby. You could, but it's could. So calm, baby. You could, but it's like very much a not built to do, like that is not the part of it.

Certainly not built with the Spider-Man font in mind. So that is something in favor of the original. I will say the original PlayStation 3 controller was so bad. And yeah. Also terrible. That was a lot of stuff. The PlayStation 3.

We do have to make these choices. One and two, one and two, one and two, one and two. One and two, and then the Xbox and the 360. Okay, I think we're right. Is this a problem? If you think about what has just happened with our system as designed, we old men pick the two oldest boxes in each category.

Is that- I don't think so. Are we okay? We did, but like- I know we, no, no, no, I know we did, but I specifically don't think it's old man thinking I think video game consoles have gotten increasingly boring and devolved into just being PCs there's not a lot to talk about because a lot and that's like in some ways for the better because They were figuring out what the hell a console even was the switch is here

The switch is doing new shit, but like the difference between a PS4 and a PS5 is like, congratulations, you have to turn off the thing that makes it hurt your fingers when you pull on the triggers. Yeah. It is quite limited. Also, like, I think that that would be a problem if we were including games. The game catalogs for these things, which is the major differentiator between modern console cycles. I made a bracket, so you don't need to worry, just scroll down. I got us all taken care of. We're ready to go.

And may I kick off this fantastic episode with what I just don't think anybody gives a shit about. Sega Master System for everyone who played not the Genesis, but the thing before the Genesis versus the TurboGrafx-16. The clear winner, oh fuck, I can't say it because it had bonk. I immediately ran into the main problem.

I can't say bonk. No, TurboGrafx-16 to me is, if you knew a rich kid, their parents might have taken a flyer on the TurboGrafx-16. We stayed at a fancy hotel once that had a TurboGrafx-16 in it, and I felt like I was one of the Rockefellers. I felt like we had finally been raised above our station

and now could live, this is what the wealthy kids play. This is, they're playing with this power, the is what the wealthy kids play. They're playing with this power, the TurboGrafx-16. And they also managed to pull off, not exactly what the Switch is doing, but pretty fucking close, where they managed to shrink the TurboGrafx-16 down to the point where you could play

your full console games in a handheld format. True. Which is crazy. They were quick to do that. We're not discussing handhelds in this. We should make this clear also. No, you're right. We are not. Yeah. Which is, they were quick to do that. Crazy. We're not discussing handhelds in this. We should make this clear also. No, you're right. We are not. Yeah.

Which is like, I feel like that, I could get way fucking rowdier on that one. As I think a lot of us could. Maybe someday we will. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, hey, right off the top here, we're talking about the box, right? And talk about a actual challenging face-off.

The TurboGraf turbo graphics 16 box is Actually, what would happen if you took gamer culture of the 1990s and you distilled it into like orange Cardboard hell it is really bad. It looks like I'm dumped a Josta on a VCR. Yeah but the Sega Master System box is One of my favorite boxes of all time. It's so fucking cool. You get to the black and red, like... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and there's a... I'm looking at... I'm talking about the graph paper one. The white box with the blue... Oh, you're talking about the box? Yeah, there's a Japanese... You're talking about the box box. Yes, okay. Yeah. Got you. I thought you meant the box.

Oh, and I think both. I think also the hardware looks like you're gonna, you know, like launch nuclear weapons and like the beginning of the Cold War. There is these. Look at this Sega Master System power base. Like look at, it's like sleek and black. It's got this red panel with killer design. It looks like, I mean,

it looks like a fucking Cylon turbo truck. Or cyber, I mean. Cyber truck? I forget what they're called. Are they called turbo trucks or cyber trucks? Cylon turbo truck. Or Cyber-Truck? I forget what they're called. Are they called Turbo Trucks or Cyber Trucks? Just look in your garage and tell us. I actually prefer the Sega Mark III Master System, which is like a white, it looks like a,

I mean, it looks like a Yamaha sort of, some synthesizer of some sort. It says computer TV game on the front, which is how you know you're about to have fun. Yeah. These both look the same. All the Master systems looks better. Like all the, yeah.

I agree. What else do we have? Which is more innovative in terms of features or UI? Are we gonna sit here and pretend like we all have? Okay, so the termographics had... No, but I think if we are not using the rubric, at least to like structure these conversations, especially when we're-

This helps especially because I don't think any of us are like that in depth familiar with these consoles in particular. These are some of the oldest consoles that we've got on this list. Yeah, sure. TurboGrafx-16 is a 16-bit graphics card, and the Master System was eight. So, well. That's true. 16 is bigger than-bit graphics card, and the Master System was eight.

So, well. 16 is bigger than eight. Yeah. It's unfair, I think, to things. Also, the TurboGrafx had cards, like credit cards as the games, and that's pretty fucking cool. That's pretty sick.

It is kinda cool. And that's a cool feature. Yeah. How about controllers here? Oh boy, yeah. Right, two things that, you things that you're gonna experience, serious hand strain, minutes after playing either of these consoles.

I think that the TurboGrafx-16 comes out ahead. Both of them have that kind of NES, very simple controller look. TurboGrafx-16 has a little bit more ergonomic shape. It's not literally just a pure box Has a little curve to it on the back But I guess it depends on the controller because there is a rounded version of the master system controller I guess it's the mark 3. Yeah, that looks a little more ergonomic

I prefer the master system to like this is a controller This looks like a controller that was issued to you by some sort of government agency. This is controller. And it's very minimalist, and I think it looks way better than any of the TurboGrafx ones, which is like, this world's smallest buttons on the world's biggest rectangular piece of plastic.

The TurboGrafx one looks like if like Power A was in control of like releasing the first party controllers and they just sort of like farted out. Hey, I use a Power A controller exclusively to play Nintendo Switch. And I'm not gonna sit here and let you besmirch Power A. I think this looks much- What's the shittier peripheral example that we could use?

There was one in Days of Yore that was like no one wanted it. Madcatz. Madcatz did make some shit. But they also made the Guitar Hero controllers, so you can't stay too mad at them. Fair. I think we can just decide a winner on this one. I don't think we need to go too deep here. Yeah, because this one ain't beaten the next round, whatever it may be.

This is also already one of the most surreal episodes of an audio show where we just talk about buttons on old video games. Yeah, fair. You know. It'll be easier once we dive into controllers and things like that. You're so right, you're so right. But let's pick one here. I'm gonna say Sega Master System wins because the box is absolutely sick. The hardware itself looks beautiful and you can plug one of those little laser zapper guns into it, even in the early days. I mean... Congratulations. Love it.

Well done. Congratulations Sega Master System for moving on. Now things are gonna get interesting. Mm-hmm. Okay, now we're in it. A little spicy, even. Okay. Okay. We've got Sega Saturn versus the Nintendo GameCube. Dang man. Griffin, do you want to sing the intro song for the Nintendo GameCube? Sure.

Buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh. Brum. That was actually pretty good. It was really good. I didn't know I had that inside of me. it scared me a little bit. See how good it was. Okay, so these are both consoles that are, I would say, you know what's nice about these? These are sorta, I feel like these both have a little bit of the black sheep stink, huh? A little bit? I think they, but well, Wii U is probably a little bit more of a problem child

for Nintendo, but yeah. These both have a little bit more of a problem child for Nintendo, but yeah. These both have a little bit of the software slump, even though it's neither of their software projects. Yeah. I would say this, Sega Saturn was like, when it came out, a little bit ahead of the game, right? In terms of like, horsepower.

That's kind of- No, I mean, Sega Saturn was way ahead, like, it had a lot of Sega does what Nintendo, like, power under the hood. It was just- It could do 3D stuff better, I guess. It was just the sort of commercial strategies behind the Sega Saturn and the- The disasters.

The catalog, which we're not discussing, failed it tremendously. Okay. We're also not talking about price, but if I recall correctly, I think the Sega Saturn was comically expensive. Is that right? No, I don't know, I can't remember. The Sega Saturn was very expensive.

That's how Sony just undercut it with price alone. It was rushed out the door. It is, if we're talking about features set or just how it works, for all intents and purposes, a disaster to design for. And that is why it has been a nightmare for emulation in the past, because it was having to do things like pull power

from the sound card. It is not great. And I say this as somebody who absolutely loved the Sega Saturn when it came out. I played a Sega Saturn once at a Blockbuster video. I played Knights into Dreams on a Sega Saturn demo unit that they had there. And then I swear to God, you guys,

I never touched one again. We did not own one. I don't know much about the Sega Saturn except that they announced it and released it on the same day And put it under everybody's chairs or some shit at the press conference or they announced it to a bunch of freebies away The look is a gimme the look goes to GameCube. Yeah, it's a lovely thing to look at that's easy Colors so many color options Nintendo does it the best for?

Fucking orange one wasn't there? Yeah, it's like a purple one. Most, what's next here? Love it, most innovative. I mean, I don't. GameCube, I think pretty easily. So the reason I would say that is Sega had a challenge here with building to the Saturn, and that they just kept putting shit out.

So they're like, here's the Genesis, here's the Sega CD, so we have CDs out. here's the 32X, we have the Power Boost and 3D graphics, and then they kind of rushed from that to the Saturn. So there was no like, it's kind of actually what I feel like has happened with the Xbox Series X from the last console generation, where there's so many little spots in between

and such like a lack of a power curve that it's hard to justify what the console is. And you can kind of see it with the controller because the controller is like spot on exactly like the Genesis. And then they had to release a new controller for Nights into Dreams, which is recognizing that. And they're kind of building the airplane mid-flight.

Most, and really the only stuff that you could, a lot of the stuff that you could point to that was like innovative about the Saturn compared to the Genesis, like, it is almost immediately seceded by, and superseded by this Nintendo 64, which doesn't have the disc drive leaps forward by, that the Saturn has,

and the Saturn still gets its lunch eaten. So I don't even think you can make a real innovative features thing when this console that should have been completely outclassed by the Saturn almost immediately ate its lunch. Yeah, blasted it. I think we're gonna talk a lot about the GameCube, but I think in this matchup specifically,

it smokes the Saturn pretty good. Yeah, I think that's a great choice. The Sega Saturn controller is an abomination. And he touched it once, so. And I touched it one time, and I still remember how bad it felt in the hands. It's like holding a ciabatta loaf. Congratulations to Nintendo's GameCube

for your very fortunate pairing. Yeah, because your controller ain't great either, partner. Speaking of fortunate pairings... I love that controller, by the way. We'll talk about it. The Nintendo Wii versus the Nintendo Wii U. Okay. Now, 2KF. Now, hold on. Now, hold on.

No, no, please. Three of us simultaneously were like, let me clear my throat. Ah-ha, ah, please. Three of the simultaneously like, let me clear my throat. Ah ha, ah ha. You've mentioned one console and then you mentioned some other words that didn't sound like anything. So you mentioned the Wii, the Nintendo Wii. And then what did you say after that?

The Nintendo Wii U. Yeah, that doesn't- It's mine, just goes to set. Here's mine, I'll use that. Let's have like a Clarence Darrow one, just do the Atticus Fitch one one Hail Mary I'll go to the fucking map. I'll go to the fucking map Yeah, if you guys need a champion for that, I will be your huckleberry all day. Hey without it. We don't have the switch

It is you know what else we don't have It's the clear path to the switch because what they did is they made what the switch should have been and then they're like Oh, it can't matter right like it can't matter in like that's how innovation works, right? I'm It's not very innovative Gonna win let me give it a decent funeral I'm just trying to put out a cheese plate and you're like knocking me over and you like all... Could you draw even a loose profile of the Wii U console from memory? Yeah, it's called a rounded rectangle. Done. I'm done. It's so easy. And then you want me to draw the controller?

Okay, I just drew the screen on the back of your airplane seat and then I put two little knobs next to it. Can I say credit to Nintendo? If it. Congratulations, gang. Can I say, credit to Nintendo. If I could just say briefly. Credit. Credit to Nintendo, when they walked in to start planning for the Switch, they walk into the room where the Wii U is sitting

and they look at both of the components of the Wii U and somebody in that office picks up the console part and they're like, this is the problem. This is what people hate. We gotta get rid of this. They love this thing. This is working. It's the console we have to get rid of.

And everyone's like, yep, let's do it. You're right, the console's the problem. Well, I mean, even if you look at the box, the box is the Wii U controller and then the console peeking out from behind it. I'm still here. I'm still doing it. There was a chapter in the history of modern gaming where second screen experiences was something

that people were trying to make happen. And that moment has passed, I would say, largely speaking. Xbox got in on it with a lot of shit. Glass. Yeah shit. Glass. Yeah, Microsoft Cloud. I mean, you could also connect your phone to drop ordinances in battle, one of the battlefield games for Xbox.

Also, the fucking DS was huge. Well, and they also wanted the idea of- That is not the type of thing I'm talking about. I'm talking about one play, people looking at a TV, but then you also have a little pad that you can do shit on and the Wii U, not to talk about specific games, had a lot of fucking rad applications of that.

I think that it was a weird little bubble, but it was like a thing that I found very exciting. I really liked games that could create these neat, asymmetrical experiences in like a multiplayer setting. And the Wii U did that, and it was the most that I think a major company went all in on this idea that ultimately the idea itself kind of collapsed in on itself, which I think is a shame

because I think that we are all using a phone while we're watching TV or playing a game or whatever anyways. on itself, which I think is a shame because I think that we are all using a phone while we're watching TV or playing a game or whatever anyways. I think it's wild that this thing was such a bubble that it first. I think Netflix is the heir to this idea. Oh, absolutely. I think Netflix's gaming is very interested in exactly what you're talking about. I like to imagine that Griffin is standing behind a pulpit next to an open grave and

there's all these empty folding chairs in front of him, and we're standing there with our shovels and our watches. We have another one to do in 20 minutes. We really gotta wrap this up. You are burdened, overburdened, by consideration of catalog. I invite you to remove that consideration entirely and then give me an objective look at this.

Do you realize that this conversation has only been able to continue because we are not mentioning the Wii like it's behind our back like this? Like, well, we could- okay, hold on. Wait a second. Okay. You mean the Wii, the thing that the Wii U could do all the same stuff as? And also have the little screen- yeah, sorry! The Wii U does what the Wii don't! Nope. Okay, okay.

The- Let me first start by saying, this might have been unclear, but when I said which box looks cooler, I meant the physical console box, not like the marketing box. Ah, that's too bad, because I was wondering why that conversation kept rearing its head. In both cases, the Wii still wins, so I'm fine with that. The Wii just looks like the Wii. I actually think the box of the Wii U looks better than the box of the Wii, for what it's worth.

Like the white monolith, just like. I mean, they're both white monolith. I mean, in a way, one is just like a little rounder. I gotta disagree with you here. I do, I think the Wii looks cooler. I think the Wii hardware, just the box, just like a sleek cyber truck. It doesn't get so smudgy. Yeah, and cyber traffic so smudgy

Yeah, the we looked yeah, okay. That's fair. He was awful Okay, we here's the thing looks nice has the motion controls that you know like shook the world it got it Got grandma moving her booty. You know down at the exercise place You could use two candles for that shit, and it's the work. It was crazy I know it also features wise Brought the virtual console to our world which at the time was awesome You would look forward to like the Wednesday drops of like new new old games, and that was so exciting You had it's easy to take that for granted now, but like that was huge you had all the me stuff you can make your own characters yeah that verges on

talking about a game but not quite no it's part of the UI yeah I think when I when we talked about doing this episode like in my mind I feel like Nintendo is such a front-runner in terms of like what is exciting to me about like gaming hardware and that it does they do weird shit. They do really weird shit with their stuff and sometimes it's on a hardware level, sometimes it's on like an OS level, but they're the only ones doing really,

I guess Xbox did Xbox Live avatars for a while, which were not great, but I don't know, the weed really was, everything was channels when you turned it on. It looked like a little TV and everything was the Wii Shop channel or the Wii News channel or that shit's so bad. Okay, okay, okay, so the box, the Wii looks cooler.

Even if you want, I mean, the Wii has to be more innovative. I mean- We said enough nice things about the Wii. We can just acknowledge that. More comfortable controller. Well, but there are some interesting matchups here. I'll go very quickly. Neither. Cool looking controller. I mean, you look like a fucking dork using the Wii U controller.

Like, let's be real. Yeah, and you look fucking so cool using a Wii remote. Yeah, I was swinging the fucking master sword around. You look like a future tennis person. You did look cool. Yeah, sure. Sure. Can't beat the portability of the Wii.

On the reliability point. Yeah. Okay, fine. Wii wins. I just didn't... Wait, wait, wait. And portable, the Wii U does take portable because you could technically play the Wii U without, like, a screen.

Yeah. You could play it without a screen. Could you? Yeah, people did. People would like bring it onto their airplane and plug it into the power source. You just need a power... You just need a power thing in there. They would keep the console in their bag and then play on the tablet.

That's great. I love that. It is unfortunately the least cool name ever for any console Congratulations. We win this round. Push it forward. Push it on. Never. Next up. Now we're freaking talking. The bloodbath. Let's go.

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis. Yes, this is when the console wars were wars, man. Okay, I'm getting up my reference materials here because I don't want to say anything wrong. I still feel afraid. All these books hitting the ground. Because I don't know how I feel yet and I really like this rubric because it's full of me.

I don't like how I feel. I don't like how I. Can we go to, can we, can we, I feel like we are all struggling to begin talking about, I think let's, I think let's lean on the rubric here. I think let's go piece by piece for this matchup, the Titan, of gaming console matchups. The first one is like, which looks cooler? They both look so cool.

And they're two different types of cool. Yeah. I think the Super Famicom, if we can consider that, instead of the American SNES box, I think is so fucking good. It looks so rad, it's got that blue, red, yellow, green little thing icon on it. I mean, I agree with you, but is that part of it?

I mean, I guess it has to be, for no one else to just- Yeah, I think that's part of it. Permutations. It is really good looking. I've always loved that Super Famicom color palette. But the Genesis is sleek, especially when they got it down to just a square. It just looked, it looks so cool.

And what about when you stack on three tracks, a Sega CD, and pull out the two-er books? Then it loses guy on top. Yeah. Get his saddlebags going. I think we got a raw dog. I think we got a raw dog straight Genesis to the dome and do not attach any peripherals to this. Now I know, sorry, but the expandability

of the Sega Genesis is a promise that came from the Nintendo side of things that never actually delivered on the Sega delivered on that expandability. And I think that- think that wow did they deliver with us with a suite of Go on hit games of what of what can't talk? something It looked like a Jenga tower give it that that's like the dumbest

Look at let's call it Look At Ty. I give it to Nintendo. I would give it to the SNES. I would give it to Nintendo. I think Nintendo wins this. I think Genesis. I will say that Genesis looks like a lot of other consoles that we've looked at so far.

Just a cooler version. A little bit more character. Innovative features, I think it's Genesis. I think so too. Yeah, definitely. How so? Because of all that wild fucking shit They had glass processing. They would try anything

SNES had the super FX chip, but really that was in the cartridge. I think that wasn't hardware hardware bound. Oh, yeah SNES just looked good and had a lot of stuff on it That was fun to interact with but it didn't it wasn't the most exciting in terms of, it was not the most feature-rich of gaming hardware. It really did the one thing pretty good. With what you said about Nintendo, Griffin, SNES is the contradiction, right? SNES is we did the NES, but we did it better

and we did it simpler. Like, they had more experimentation with the NES than they did with like, the NES just driving all those things with Super Nintendo. They kind of just knew what they wanted and they stuck to it. Well, that was very much like their place in the market. I feel like this is when Nintendo is a kid's,

is the kid's one, like Nintendo's the kid's one, Genesis is for cooler. Like that's always the conversation, right? To contextualize this for our younger listeners, like these were arguments that were had in my school a lot of Sega or Nintendo, which one's cooler. And the subtext of those conversations is always like, well, Nintendo's little kid shit and Sega is like,

is pretty raw and pretty cool. I won't talk about the games, but Sega had blood. Sega had blood on it. Yes. I mean, yeah, we don't have policy here. So the simplicity of SNES is, I think, by design. And it certainly worked for them. When I say the simplicity worked for them

and maybe against them, kind of what Hoops, I think you were getting at with like not expanding on the console is why we have a PlayStation. Like they had the opportunity to add CD functionality. They didn't, Sony was like, cool, we'll go do our own thing. If we're talking about more, it says more innovative. And I mean, you can't say that the SNES writ large innovated and evolved like more than the Genesis.

No, I would agree with that. I agree. I agree. Yeah. Here's a weird one. We have removed the SNES, we have Solomon's style cut the hair of the SNES by not talking about its truly remarkable,

solid gold library of games. Yeah, well, what can you do? Ooh. I don't like the Genesis controller. I never have six or three buttons. I never liked holding it. I know that the ergonomics of the SNES are not good, but like just the sounds, man.

I can picture, like I think that would be, I hope that would go SNES for that one. I think the SNES controller is pretty ergonomic. This is a controller that I- We understand more about how you should grip things, right? The idea that it doesn't, I mean, compared to modern controllers, there is a bit more heft to the Genesis,

and if you're talking about which is better in the hands to hold long-term, it may be the Genesis, because the profile is a little bit closer to- Like, what- The human. Yeah, exactly. And in terms of reliability, so many Super Nintendo controllers ate shit

while I was using them as a kid. So many- Oh really? Yeah, so many frayed, so many buttons got stuck. Like I constantly had trouble with that. It's fucking ridiculous we're still talking about this. Look at these two controllers side by side and then look at every other controller

that ever came out after them and tell me which one got copied by everyone. It's fucking crazy that you guys are like, yeah, the one with 60 million fucking buttons on it that nobody knew how to use is the bit, like that's crazy. It's the SNES with a bullet. Yeah, okay.

Cooler looking controller, still SNES, I think. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, aesthetically, it's certainly an aesthetic choice, but yeah, I think unless you are into like, how they design like, motherboard boxes. Reliability, I would go SNES just because if we're giving it the benefit of the doubt

for its innovation, then I think the reliability of those has to be taken into account. And that whole setup, once you started, like once you plugged everything in, it was really one of those like, okay, hold on everybody, I'm turning it on. We'll see what happens.

Here comes Sewer Shark. Something's gonna come out, yeah. It's spinning up, you can hear that baby purring So the fact that the SNES was not really trying any of that stuff except for maybe the multi tap Yeah, I think in terms of reliability like I think that's probably I don't think we need to get into more portable They're basically the same and I wouldn't agree. I didn't know one. I Think you like yeah, Super Nintendo takes. Genesis, you're dead forever. Alright. Hey, good try.

Uh, I'll miss you, childhood. This is another easy one. This is dirty. Y'all done us dirty with this one. They're all gonna feel bad. This better be an easy one. If there's conflict here, I'm gonna fucking be pissed. Nintendo 64. Sega Dreamcast. Dreamcast the best. Dreamcast the best. Dreamcast the best.

We did discuss it earlier that Dreamcast is the best, but I think we need to go through and confirm. It is hard for me guys to lobotomize myself and not think about the N64 games I enjoy. If you look at the hardware of these two consoles, Dreamcast the best by so... Dreamcast, the best device. Like... DREAMCAST LAUGHS DREAMCAST LAUGHS DREAMCAST LAUGHS DREAMCAST LAUGHS

Dreamcast had the virtual memory unit, which may be the most exciting bit of gaming hardware that was dropped like a... It was exciting failed gaming hardware. Like a hot stone. Can we actually, can we pause? I want you to have your entire VMU moment. Dreamcast is gonna get so much talk,

because it is the best, later on, that I would hate for you to burn your best material on something as filthy and shameful as the Nintendo 64 hardware. Which, like, congrats, yeah, they added Rumble Pak. They also added, remember the little power boost that you had to put in its gut, like Iron Man? Yeah, it needed more memory. Oh, that fucking console.

That's so weird. That always weirded me out because it's like, when you bought the Nintendo 64 and you got it home, you're like, hell yeah, time to play video games. And then you look down, you're like, it seems like there's a little flap here. What's under that? And then it's like, don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it for a little while. But then when Star Fox 64, I forget which one was, no, Majora's Mask, right? Was the one that was like- I thought it was Donkey Kong. It was one of those games. Yeah, I think it was Donkey Kong. Had the extension pack?

Yeah, that required it. Required it was, Perfect Dark did. So it it, it was the perfect dark, did it? So it's like, why did you guys, if this was- That was a pack as well. Yeah. If you guys were always kind of planning on this as evidenced by the fact that you did have a little hole here from the beginning,

why not put the thing in there from the beginning? Yeah, that expansion pack is not so much an upgrade. It's an upgrade in the sense that like, when people get metal discs in their spine, it's an upgrade. It's like, yeah, well, that's a medical assistant device that you have there. You need that to live.

They also put it in such a prevalent spot that was like, you could not, it was like someone got a tattoo on their forehead. They knew they had to make it easy. There's no missing that slot. Because people were gonna need to, everybody was gonna need to do it. The controller is also like,

when you go to Chicago and somebody in a bar is like, you gotta have some Malort. You haven't been to Chicago if you haven't drinking the Malort. And you're like, yeah, I mean, sure, I'm glad I did that. That was fun. We had a good time. It was not a good experience.

Does the N64 win any of the categories of the reverse? It's lucky we're not able to talk about what the games look like. No. It's probably pretty excited about that, honestly. Okay, it doesn't win boxes core, it doesn't win innovative, it doesn't win comfortable control, or certainly. Guys, this really is Dreamcast's episode to win.

Like all of this shit is so good. All that stuff. Let's keep going. But that's not fair to N64, because it should get its day in court. The controller is one of the worst things I've ever seen. And I've seen multiple car crashes, reliability. And they break.

Awful. It's awful. Some of the worst controller. Yeah. They break all the time, which is more portable. Like I don't think you'd want to bring it over to someone else could see that you had it, right? It's like so embarrassing.

No. Okay. This is one. Okay. No, okay, this is one, this is one where I definitely have moved the Nintendo 64 to more places than I have moved any of these other consoles because of reasons that we can't discuss. But I definitely brought that down to a lot of dorm rooms and dens and you know, I think that's a good point in terms of reliability. I have definitely brought that around to a lot of dorm rooms and dens and you know,

I hold that thing around a lot. I don't think it wins on reliability no matter what. Cause again, those controllers died. But portability. Portability, yeah. I don't think the fact that you had a reason to make it portable is a point in its favor for portability. But the cartridges versus the disks is a lot easier chucking a bag.

You don't have a fucking CD binder? Dog, I will say that the Dreamcast is maybe- Can it have one? It's like a pure victory at best, man. No, I think that this one is fair because I think the Dreamcast disc read error was a real, it was an epidemic. So it's not fair to just only lay that out.

I definitely had that issue as well. Listen, we get it. Nintendo 64 had its time. We are debating whether it gets three consecutive life sentences or four. Right. I don't really care. I mostly just wanna get out in time for lunch.

Yeah, Drink Kift is the best. Drink Kift is the best. Drink Kift is the best. Oh boy. Okay. This is great grandfather versus little baby boy. Okay. This is Great Grandfather vs. Little Baby Boy. NES vs. Nintendo Switch.

Yeah, I mean, the Nintendo Switch is fucking incredible. It's so good, and it does a lot of stuff no other console has ever done before. I feel like someone has handed me a marker and asked me to circle the wrinkles on my nonny.

I don't like this feeling, but we are feeling that we have to stand in front of the NES and just start sadly pulling out bricks until it's almost like a Jenga tower. Oh boy. Yeah, I mean, if you talk about, I mean, in any category, guys, one of these consoles came out 50 fucking years after the other one,

it's gonna win in all of them. It's gonna beat the shit out of them. I would say that the Nintendo Entertainment System looks better than the Nintendo Switch. I would agree. The Nintendo Switch has very little character and it's really, it's just a slimmed down Wii U at the end of the day and if you throw in the dock The dock is horrible Visually speed the docks not great. Okay, so yeah, I got one win good the switch light though

I think looks great, especially when you you mod it, you know, but I guess if you could also But you know what's not on this this list is the switch light Yeah, it also does the switch look different than like half the emulator hand-helds that come across your desk I don't think yes looks at so any as looks. Yeah, I guess fair. I yeah, I think any s is cooler I mean fuck innovated innovative is where things get a little tricky because we're talking about like Popularizing home we should explain Yeah, we should have mentioned this up front, but and I'll just speak for myself like popularizing home interactive entertainment. We should have mentioned this upfront,

but I'll just speak for myself. I don't wanna speak for you guys, but I have what could at best be described as a very limited understanding of computation, broadly speaking. So some people might be like, but what about the chip? Or you know what I mean? Or like the other chip that everybody knows about.

Like I, you know, I'm sure there's architecture. Last processing. Yeah, there's architecture things that I simply don't understand. In addition to the architecture, it's worth considering that the NES did have its own robot and its own gun. Switch with the gun. The gun was good. That was a really good gun and a really shitty robot.

It also had a glove and a hoop and a mat that you ran on. Now wait a minute, there's a lot of things that the NES could- I mean, you're listening to a lot of different stuff. You're right. Yeah, all of it sucked absolute dog shit except for the Zapper, but yeah, otherwise you have a really good point. More innovative in terms of features. innovative in terms of features. I mean, the Switch, you can play on the go or at home on it. That alone, I feel like we are pretending that is not sort of the dream scenario for us having kids and traveling as much as we do.

The dream scenario of video games our entire lives. It was the forever fantasy. What if my Game Boy played the games that I actually like? Right, and it does it, and it does it pretty good. I mean, obviously it's aging, but it does it pretty good. It's just hard, because we were all more or less babies when the NES came out out so the frame of reference Well, I don't know what the world was like before and after we just don't have I don't I don't think that's I don't think

that's really fair though because Plenty like consoles had existed before the NES Boom of consoles had happened before the NES just cuz we're babies babies doesn't mean we don't know what history is. As a baby, I didn't. I think right now we might be discounting a little bit. Just because we can't talk about the specific quality of the games, what the leap forward in terms of what this looked like.

Yeah, you can talk about graphics. Graphically speaking, at that time, especially if you had grown up with a lot of different games and seeing how all that evolved, seeing NES was the wildest jump forward. In our heads, at that time, we had all seen several console generations because the Atari had had three or four different big releases, 2600, and we thought, this is each one of these is a step forward. The NES was such a massive jump in terms of like backgrounds and character fidelity and like all that stuff.

It's such old man shit, but it is true when you played the original Super Mario Brothers in the game scrolled and you weren't locked in the screen was mind blowing. I think we played our flag here. It was like actually mind blowing. Go back, if you have access to like some ways of playing older games, whatever that may be, go play the stuff that came out the year

the NES was released on Atari. Look for Atari games released in that year and then see like where things were at. Like, and even like it is such a massive jump, it's really hard to contextualize. Especially because kind of a lot of people thought games were dead. Like that was it. They had run their course. Like.

Hmm. This one's tough. I think for the conversation we're having here, it's For me, it is the Nintendo Switch. I feel like I'd be lying. I play it more than any other, of all the other consoles here listed, I play it more than any of the other ones. And it did manifest a total sea change.

I've gone back and you're right, there is an enhancement playing 7800 Atari versus the NES. But like side by side, screenshot wise, it's not that different. Like it's pretty close. We have the rubric. I think the Switch is more intimate. There's one other great thing that we have here.

We always afford ourselves one pick that can go to the final five five if we so choose, right? Yeah, I don't know if it's going to be the NES though. I'm just saying it could be. It's a tie. So do you think the Switch is a better name? Because I'm assuming you're using the tiebreaker, right? Have we even gotten to the tiebreaker?

We haven't gotten to the rubric. I mean, you're talking about Chris is saying it wins the rubric, so I just thought we'd not do the rubric. Yeah, so I would say which box looks cooler? NES. NES. Which was way more innovative in terms of features UI? Switch. I think it's Switch.

Which has the more comfortable controller? Switch. Switch. Which has the cooler looking controller? NES. I think the NES is... NES. Okay.

Reliability. That's NES. Talk to me about Joy-Con Drift. No, wait. No, no, no, no. Are you fucking kidding me? Talk to me about Joy-Con Drift. Talk to me about Joy-Con Drift. No, are you fucking kidding me? Talk to me about Joy-Con Drift. Talk to me about Joy-Con Drift. Guys, Joy-Con Drift though, I want to stay focused on Joy-Con Drift.

Joy-Con Drift versus every game failing eventually. Joy-Con Drift versus every game eventually fails and stops working. And one is a portable console. To recap, we are at 3 to 2. Switch has 3, NES has 2. Question 6, which is more portable?

Right, yeah, that's a slam dunk. Out of curiosity, which do you guys think is the cooler name? Nintendo Entertainment System. It's the best. It's fucking so good. It's right on the Nintendo's serial system and there's a great names and stuff. So good. Okay, rest on the Nintendo serial system and there's a great nature stuff. So good.

Okay, rest in peace, Nintendo NES. Next matchup, we have the original Xbox versus the Xbox 360. Look, if we're talking, if this conversation is, I think, largely spearheaded by aesthetics, I think that the spearheaded by aesthetics. I think that the Xbox doesn't look very good. I think it's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. I'm trying to be nice. I think it looks not great.

I don't think it's Microsoft's best looking piece of hardware. I think the original controller was a mistake. Was a mistake. Abomination. Was it the. Was an abomination. Was it the Duke? Was the Duke the big one? The Duke. The Duke was the first one.

Yeah. It was so bad. It was sucked so bad to hold that controller. It was like, it was like the Dreamcast controller without any of the cool features. So if you got like that shape, but none of the cool stuff. It bums me out that so many people listening to this, never held one of these things, because you think it's people who are blowing it out of proportion.

But the first time you held that thing, it really was, most people's reaction was like, oh, not, I mean, not this, right? It can't be this size, certainly not this. I remember Juice got an Xbox and was staying in an apartment, was living in an apartment at the time, and I came to stay and you had, not oblivion, Morrowind.

You had Morrowind on there, and I was like, all right, cool. We're not counting this, this is not part of the conversation, this is purely anecdotal, but as soon as I picked up the controller, I was like, oh, uh-oh. I was really looking forward to spending time with Morrowind, but this sucks so fucking bad to interact with. But I also, I recognize its place in history, and it's not like the Xbox 360, the box itself is like gorgeous or anything.

No, it's nice. But I do think if we are doing- Has there been a better console design since the 360? Since? Probably the Switch. But like, that's a long time. I guess it depends what you're into. You can switch the faceplate out of the 360.

Listen, I think 360 is gonna beat the shit out of the Xbox in every conceivable way. With the 360 though, I gotta give credit for, it is one of the only consoles that I could think of where I know there was a design philosophy because they talked about it. They talked about the inhale, and there was thought put into it. A lot of 360 decisions, they're kind of off the wall,

but I think it's a really fun design. I will say, for the original Xbox, a few things in its favor Play DVDs CDs basically was Trying to be a computer it kind of set the pace for where video game consoles went Where they're like we're gonna use parts that are inside computers We're gonna use and in play graphic card as well though very much into, like, we're going to make cell processing, or like any of that sort of stuff.

But it could play DVDs. Yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah. Yes, I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I building where PlayStation was like a home entertainment system for lack of a better word a Sony home entertainment system Xbox I think was building towards even at this early stage this like your video game console is more like a PC and I think that's interesting and I think that is where video game consoles ended up going ironically I think there were times where Microsoft ran away from that own internal direction but also it is kind of like the air to the Dreamcast ended up going. Ironically, I think there were times where Microsoft ran away from that

own internal direction. But also it is kind of like the heir to the Dreamcast. It is Xbox Live. It has the Ethernet port. It has features that you don't know. I think in terms of our rubrics specifically, there is only one of the six starting rubrics that the original Xbox wins, and that is reliability. And that is only because the Xbox 360 failed at such great numbers that it just wins by default. That's fine. I'm fine with us going 360 and talking about it more in the next round. Oh, sorry. If it made it to the tiebreaker, it would also win which name is cooler.

Yeah, the Xbox 360 is like a cool stunt you can do. They've been trying to recapture the magic of Xbox 360 as a name. Oh no, I like Xbox. Really? I think that's cooler than Xbox 360. Xbox 360 is stupid, and it was a bad name, and everybody made fun of it.

You're too young to remember, maybe. I don't know. It sounds like something you would do on a vert ramp, and I like that. And it was a bad name and everybody made fun of it. You're too young to remember maybe I don't know Sounds like something you would do on a vert ramp, and I like that I guess I'm They're both pretty good It's only and I think they only named it that because they realized they'd be going up against the PlayStation 2 and they wanted a bigger Well, or they were trying to keep pace with the PlayStation 3 they wanted you to go to the back Yes, it's a great in that term. It is so funny The only thing that would have been funnier is calling it the Xbox three there is no law

If they drop the three can you imagine how excited everyone I mean the next console was called the Xbox one So they were fucking running off the rails I know but at this point they could make an argument that the next one is because they restarted this franchise next month's right okay we have our fun okay so 360 take that one well done and then we are a final matchup which is PlayStation 1 versus PlayStation 2 spicy okay PlayStation PlayStation 1 looks Spicy. Ah. Okay. PlayStation, PlayStation 1 looks better, but PlayStation 2 looks really, I think, kinda cool.

The Slimline PS2 is one of my favorite pieces of gaming hardware. That thing, that, everything was so big, everything disc-based was so fucking big, and the Slimline PS2 was like, what's the thickness? I gotta look this up. I gotta look at the thickness on this bad boy, because it was unreal.

Have you guys seen though, the mini PS1? Yes, I have one. It's beautiful. You know that cute little guy with the rounded, I think that thing is fucking gorgeous. It's, yes. It's so adorable. The PlayStation 2 Slim had a height of 1.1 inches. It's fucking wild. I mean, imagine fucking it's gorgeous. Yes, it's the playstation 2 slim had a height of 1.1 inches I mean, it's wild. Yeah, really small. I mean

Let's talk about PlayStation 1 just coming into existence that Sony is you know Codeveloping an idea for something like this with Nintendo Doesn't work out and they're like we're just gonna go do our own damn thing. Sony who is not even in the video game scene at this point. And they just leap in with this right off the bat. And they leap in with the DualShock that, yeah, it doesn't have the joysticks, but it's effectively the same.

It does eventually. It does eventually. And it's the same design that they've been using up until the PS5, when they kind of finally changed away from it. Um, pretty bold. Did they... Were they first or was Nintendo first on the analog stick? I think it was Nintendo, right? Nintendo was first with, I think, the 360 analog...

Or the 64, yeah. PlayStation was first with the dual analog sticks. You can play Ape Escape with it, which we won't talk about. It's fucking wild how there was a period of such rapid evolution of the fundamental ways that you interact with video games. When the dual stick came out on the PlayStation 1,

I remember being like, oh, so I can finally move and look around. Yeah, I can move and look around at the same time. That kicks ass. That's actually a good thing. You don't have to use like C button. There's definitely a, I think that this period that we're talking about

is the period where we're trying to re-imagine everything about interacting with video games because of the switch to three dimensions, right? Your pad makes perfect sense in two dimensions. And what you're seeing, a lot of the flailing, I think at this point is like, okay, how do we make it okay to interact with this world? Like, what is the language that makes the most sense?

Because you have so many more things to consider. I mean, infinitely more in a certain sense, because you've expanded like the planes in which you're operating. Yeah, so Nintendo went ahead and made, and took a bunch of peyote, and then, like, kinda drew something on a squiggle board. Yeah, PlayStation, meanwhile, didn't do them, and then looked around like, oh no, this is not working.

This is not how you interact with 3D worlds, we need something else. So mid-console, they put out the... And ended up doing it better than Nintendo by quite a bit. Yeah. So, okay. It's tough, man. This is the hardest category for me to remove the history of it from,

because I mean, the cartridge to disc leap was outrageous. Yeah, I think the PlayStation 1 is more innovative than the PlayStation 2. The PlayStation 2, obviously, software-wise, which we're not talking about, incredible. But like, in terms of features. Interface-wise, I think you cannot undersell the interface of the PlayStation 2.

That's the first one I remember being like, oh, okay, so like like I manage all of the, I manage everything through this, right? Like I manage my memory card data through this. I manage, did the PlayStation 1 have like a- You should look at the PlayStation. It did. Before you lay too many more plaudits on the PS2 UI,

you should look up a video of the PlayStation 1 AI. Because a lot of the stuff that you are talking about is baked in. Yeah, you can manage like memory cards and stuff because that's how, you know, you think about about is baked in. Yeah, you can manage memory cards and stuff because that's how you think about Metal Gear Solid 1. Oh my God, this looks so rough though, guys. Well, yeah, it was the PlayStation 1. It was the PlayStation 1.

I mean, it's before the PlayStation 2, Griffin. I think when I watch videos of the PlayStation 2 UI, which I do frequently. I just looked down at the game and it's so bad. It looks like an official PlayStation magazine fell down a well of stairs. Demo disc, yeah. Yeah.

But you also could watch DVDs on the PS2. It was like a multimedia machine and it was pitched as such. And the DVD thing is so huge because it was cheaper than most DVD players at the time. That's true. Yeah. Which one made it like the default best DVD player you can get. Plus how many people did it bring into video games just because they bought it just to

have a DVD player and they're like, oh, now I can play video games. I don't think I would ever be as pumped as I was for a new console as I was when we got the PlayStation 2 at Christmas because that was also our first DVD player at our house and some of the biggest fights that we had, the time on that thing was strictly managed because we were all wanting to use it all the time. Yeah, you could watch The Matrix now. You could watch the Matrix on it. You could also

connect to the internet if you had the ethernet adapter. You could also use the iToy and the buzz controller. PlayStation 2 had a lot of good... I think this is PlayStation 2, guys. Yeah. I mean, do we go... I would give it, yeah, I would give it the PlayStation 2. I still think the box is cooler or the PS1. 1.1 inches tall. The PlayStation 1 does have a cooler box. That's because it's little doesn't mean it's cool looking. PlayStation 1 has a cooler looking box.

Okay, so they're tied, and then we go to most comfortable controller, which is tied, I guess. No, it's the two. The two does round the edges. It's a little bit more ergonomic. Oh, right. The three was the one that was the worst controller.

Yes. And also, I believe PlayStation 1 took a while to get all four top buttons. I think it was just two top buttons. No, they always had two. It was the Dual Six. They didn't have them. Pretty sure they always had L1 and R1.

I think that's right. So OK, so we're going to cooler looking controller. It's really down to, do you like the gray or the black, right, at that point? I mean, you could get some. There was a multitude of colors for each of it. We're splitting hairs talking about the differences of the controllers between these two consoles.

Yeah, they're very close. Do we have any insight on the reliability? Someone was talking about games not running unless there was upside down, right? I know that that was a thing. I mean, definitely they were less reliable. PlayStation 1 definitely had a lot more discreet errors, et cetera, et cetera.

And PlayStation 1 died off much faster. My old PlayStation 1, it had a very clear shelf life. For my PS2 I've still dug it out and it still works. And then on the portability front are we counting the little one-inch baby? I guess it was an offshoot but yeah I mean definitely I definitely brought the PS2 with me to places like if I would go to a friend's house to play Burnout I would bring it with me because it was so fucking little and it was no problem at all.

Seems very close, it seems like we might. So there's one problem with portability and it's that the PlayStation Portable had a screen that you could attach to it. That was cool. Wait, the PlayStation, the original PlayStation you're saying? No, the PlayStation Portable. So PlayStation 1 Portable.

Okay, well the PlayStation Portable is a PSP, which is... Oh, no, sorry, I mean the, um, whatever, the smaller version of it. Whatever that was called. The PS1. It was called the PS1, spelled out as one. Yes. That, there was a, like was a game hatch screen you can put on top Was this a first party device? I'm pretty sure it was right? Yeah Yeah, yeah the back of the PS1 and it flipped up and it was a look at it

It seems pretty fucking portable to me. It's you don't even need a TV. Yeah, it was real cool I think it probably takes the edge on portability with that. Yeah in mind. I It was real cool. I think it probably takes the edge on portability with that in mind. I'm fine with that. Tied? They are the same. Oh yeah, let's talk about what's a cooler name,

PlayStation or PlayStation 2. PlayStation 2, maybe. Now, let me stop you right there. It's twice as good. Although, It's twice as good. I was gonna say, hold on. You've got, let's look at the abbreviations for a second.

PS2 or PSX. PISX? I didn't say PISX, I said P-S-X. Also, I don't, I think PISX is something we came up with recently as a way to truncate that. I don't think it'd be in- I am not gonna have this discussion with you guys. It's pissing me off.

PlayStation is a name of a box. Nintendo Entertainment System,. Nintendo Entertainment System, super Nintendo Entertainment System, the Wii, the Saturn, Genesis, Mega Drive. That's something. PlayStation 2 ruined it for everybody because they put a number on there and then it's like, and then everybody has to do

the numbers thing. You couldn't just have these cool conversations about Saturn's and and ultra sixty four. Pluto's and all that damn. This is actually a really good point that I've never considered. I like that point. I did, too. All right, let's do a piece one then PlayStation is a PlayStation's

a very good pull. Like it's a very good. Oh, yeah. Branding wise, crushed. I think I think PlayStation 1 somehow takes this congratulations So I station one you did it Okay We are moving on to round two And we've got some matchups coming at you. We're gonna start with a bv1 Xbox 360

versus PlayStation One I'm gonna open this in a separate tab and another tab So I don't have to keep scrolling all the way back up to the rubric to reference it. All right, 360 versus PlayStation 1? Yes. Guys, the 360 did so much shit. I feel like the 360 came out when I started to really play

a lot of fucking games, a lot, and it had new ways of getting those games, with like the Xbox Live Arcade, and playing those games online from the jump with all my buddies. Like, that's Halcyon Days level shit for me. So that's tough to argue. I think the 360 does very well in the matchup because I think it definitely looks cooler. I think we can all agree on that. It's more innovative in terms of features.

I love the controller. Love the controller. The controller is fantastic. It looks great. It's comfortable to hold. Reliability, not so much. Probably loses the original PlayStation on reliability, and probably loses on portability. But the first four categories...

Those two are also hand in hand, because if you moved your Xbox 360 around in the wrong way, it broke forever. Shut down. Right. But I think it takes the first four, which means it's got the majority of the rubric there. And I think it's a very strong pick, as much as I love the PlayStation, as we just established. I want to give Griffin his time to talk about the VMU again. But here we are, once again, with a showdown, where Dreamcast is the best. There's not a conversation to be had here.

The Sega Master System versus the Dreamcast. I think... Get this fucking bullshit off my plate. Get this off of... I think the defense of the VMU is yet to come. We'll get to it. I'm on the edge of my seat, but for the moment, Dreamcast is the best. Dreamcast is the best.

And we will get down to the point of where we're discussing the Final Five, and I think at that point the VMU treatise will be over fast. Sure. Okay, the GameCube versus the Nintendo Wii um Fun fact the Nintendo Wii is better in practically every way I had a good time humoring y'all as if the GameCube was ever a cool game. Cuse trash I don't know how the worst console of all time made it to a list of the best ones. It's impossible stinks to a list of the best ones. It's impossible. Everything stinks. I hate the GameCube, those fiddly little discs. Keep them, this is a man's hand.

I need a man's disc. I like the game disc. Strong disagree on almost every form. Wow, okay. Which box looks cooler? The fucking GameCube is maybe the best console. That's not even close. Okay, okay, okay.

And also when you turn on the Wii, I mean you did get pretty good music. You didn't get the buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh bu good reason I think it became a lot more function centric safer that because so much of it was interacted with and like couldn't just be an aesthetic thing but yeah okay innovative I definitely agree that the Wii takes it yes easy which has the more comfortable controller I will die on this hill it is definitely the game you're nice you fucking not be more wrong then I'll wait bud let's just step away let's try I love I love holding the GameCube controller. It fits perfectly in my hands.

All the buttons are easily accessible. They have crazy shapes. So you don't need to look down to remember what your thumb is resting on. I love that controller. It would win for me for both more comfortable and cool. You know when they're like nine out of 10 dentists recommend you brush your teeth?

You're the one dentist who's over here like, just let it, let the grime come up. The game you've been trolling- This is so wrong! Russ, this is the most problematic thing I've ever heard you say, and I've known you for a long time. Let me just say one more thing. Anybody could play the Nintendo Wii.

Anybody. It was the most intuitive thing. That has nothing to do with it. What do you mean it has nothing to do with it? Just because people can play it, that is not the rubric. It That has nothing to do with it. What do you mean it has nothing to do with it? Just because people can play it, that is not the rubric. It's whether it's comfortable to hold. Okay, okay. This is an interesting wrinkle that I'm willing to...

I don't, I don't think it's gonna work. Yeah, so this one did one of these... Hold on. Yeah, I think I see where it's going. While you're playing tennis, it's fine to hold. Try playing fucking Excite Truck and see how you want to hold that control. I would even make the argument, guys guys that I was a game journalist in 8-7 and like this is one of the consoles that that hat came with a surgeon general's warning for don't huck this guy in the

Wrong way you're gonna shatter your TV. Don't I don't know if most comfortable. It was maybe propulsive Too comfortable to hold that you start to fucking lose your your focus a little bit They gave you a strap to hold it better No, not only not just a strap a rubberized condom. I loved I did love having a little Jimmy Cap for my Because you got me with the wording and I feel like you planted the seed Months ago that you've all been building up to knowing that this moment would happen. Because if the question was, which is the better controller, we with a bullet. But if the question is, most comfortable controller,

then like, yeah, you're right. They put the thing in a damn condom because it was like so uncomfortable to hold a candy bar for a video game controller. And on the cool we're looking front, have you seen the movie Existence? It looks like, I was just thinking about Existence. The GameCube controller looks like the fucking Existence controller.

I'm sorry, we're all having a lot of fun here, but the GameCube controller can't have, like that, that is one of the worst things you could look at. You can't, well, let's see. So if the game, we say that the GameCube controller takes one, the Wii takes the features and UI, the GameCube controller takes more comfortable, GameCube controller gets cooler, on the reliability front, probably the Wii is more reliable? Is that fair to say? Wii still works today. Yeah, I think Wii is more reliable is that fair to say we still works today yeah you could use your candles okay that's sorry we gotta go back no I'm sorry Russ I can't but I was trying to have really but like I'm sorry the first thing is I came up with the comfortable controller thing and

then I'm thinking what if I go to heaven and God's like, if you love it so much, hold it forever. And I'm like, no, I was kidding to torment Russ. I didn't mean it. It's a bad controller. That is definitely not the most more comfortable than the Wii controller. I'm sorry. No, I can't.

I will say when you're holding the Wii controller, if you're playing something for a long time, you have to do this a lot. So it's like the controller itself may be good to Hold but you do have to flail in order to operate It's just like the games that weren't motion games that controller fucking sucked It was like holding the NES controller worse even because it had that divot for where the trigger was Can we do like a survivor vote to like see where we're at here? Yeah, sure. Okay. I vote...

We. We. Okay. I disagree. You're heard. Okay, let me do a- Gamecube. That felt unfair to you for a second.

Wait, wait, wait. Let me do a rubric real quick. Which looks cooler? Okay, do a rubric. The... Gamecube. Gamecube. More innovative in terms of features.

We. We. More comfortable controller. We. Cooler looking controller. Meh. Think about it. I just talked about how much I hated it, Russ.

That's not a, I was trying to see if you were listening. No, that's definitely not GameCube. So that's we, reliability. Okay. Give it to GameCube. That's GameCube. Why? Okay. Oh, and we, reliability, okay. Give it to GameCube. That's GameCube. Why? Because of motion tracking, motion tracking,

and having to fix the light bar. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And now we've got another rubric to discuss. Which is more portable, GameCube. So it comes down to which name is cooler, and there's no fucking way you're gonna say GameCube is cooler than Wii. Wii is iconic.

Hold on, actually. This is tough actually for me, Chris. Actually, Chris. This is tough for me actually, Chris. I'm realizing with horror. This was 20 minutes ago that I realized this is how it was gonna play out, and I'm so glad that it did. And I weight GameCube is a much better name than Wii.

GameCube kicks ass. That's such a fucking cool name for a thing. The GameCube. We retire. We'll settle this in the GameCube. It's so fucking cool name for a thing the game cube we retire will settle this in the game cube It's so fucking good Okay, so there you go game cube wins I don't think what's worse than game cube winning is your little fucking plan coming into place

He laid it out from the beginning. He said he said just so you know He gave us all the clues. He said just just so you know, that is winning most portable. He gave it to us. Yeah, that's true. Okay, so the GameCube takes it. We're down to the final matchup, which is Super NES versus Nintendo Switch. I mean, I think the SNES kind of limped into its victory

because its hardware is not very exciting and it sort of has a much stronger catalog of games. But if it's a straight up and down in the rubric, if the rubric is a straight up and down, we are saying that each of those is equally important. So are we really saying we value which is the most portable against which is the most innovative in terms of features?

Also remember, the rubric is to get us talking. We do have the ability to say. I don't like the GameCube. I really don't feel good about the GameCube in this. Too late. The rubric made contrast. Don't worry, I think the Wii's gonna come back for the top five.

All right. Okay. I would agree that the NES, based on the rubric, will struggle because we are not talking about games and everything else about the NES. The Super NES. The Super NES, I should say, is pretty... I want to get to the top five, then. Let's do this.

Why waste our time? The Nintendo Switch wins. I think the five that we we're gonna talk about here are The the four winners the Xbox 360 the Sega Dreamcast the Nintendo GameCube and the Nintendo switch And then I think the Nintendo Wii is the other Entry that will be going into the top. I don't know about that. Yeah versus what? What do you think? Because we should figure this out before we... Versus the original NES?

Like what would it be? Maybe just the NES. The NES was the only other one that I think had like a real competition shot at making it to the top five. Man, I don't think you can discount that. Having a PlayStation product in the top five makes sense to me. And I think PS PlayStation having a PlayStation product in the top five makes sense to me And I think PS one we could we could probably make the argument for oh man. I know what you're saying, but like

Nintendo Wii Changed so like the innovation of the Nintendo Wii we don't have a rubric for this part So it's more about gut but like that chain that was We don't have a rubric for this part, so it's more about gut, but that chain, that was foundational. That shook everything. Does it impact anything that that foundation was later reverted and everyone realized it was a big mistake? Yes. I don't think it was because it got people playing.

I think a huge challenge with video games at that time was just getting people to try them. And I think in the same way that like touch based games on iPhones brought a lot of people into the circle, you need that space. You need the kind of like learning area. And yeah, we don't need that as much anymore because now it's more common for everybody to play. Yeah. But don't, if you're going to make that argument, doesn't the NES do that better?

No, I actually, I don't if you're gonna make that argument doesn't the NES do that better? No, I actually I don't think it does I'm maybe the super Nintendo, but like the NES was not The barn burner that brought people into video games compared to even something like Pac-Man or pong like it was good It saved a video game industry that was spiraling out of you know, the full collapse, but I don't think it was like the system that got us to where we need to be. Okay, that's fair. I think it was pulling up on, it was the pilot saving the airplane

from crashing into the ground. I'd be fine putting the Wii at five. Okay, I think that's a good, I think this is a sound argument. All right. You're only saying that because you know that means the GameCube is gonna get higher. I see exactly what you're doing.

You just, what you did is- Oh, GameCube is five. I'm not saying that Wii is fifth. We can't say that the GameCube beats the Wii in one round and then in the very next round say that the Wii is better than the GameCube. That's unhinged. That's unhinged right here.

Hey, you're right, you're right. That's a pretty big fart. Even for the besties, it's a bit much. Okay, we is five. Okay. What other ones did we put in? Gamecube is four. Gamecube is four.

You had a good run. Good job, buddy, I love you. Dreamcast's best. Little purple boy. So it's like Dreamcast did it one. I think Xbox 3603, and now we can have the real conversation, which is Switch versus Dreamcast. I actually know. It's actually know coming towards this really

I disagree. I think I think I love the switch. I think switch 3 Xbox 360 2 Dreamcast to pass Can you just tell us why Dreamcast to best because we've been dancing around to this whole episode and it needs its time Dreamcast You know that scene in Alien? When Alien shows up and he's like, oh fuck, how is this guy gonna kill this guy?

And he opens his mouth like, oh he's gonna eat him. But then another smaller alien comes out of the alien's mouth to eat him. That's what it was like the first time I popped the virtual memory unit out. And was like, wait a minute, this game console just shit out a small game console that I can take with me to school to feed my KO school.

If you didn't know, it was a memory card that had a tiny screen and even tinier buttons on it. And it was incredible, you would be playing Shenmue and you would fucking see a prompt on the screen that's like, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, press B, but you would also see it on your VMU if you were looking down at your controller for some reason and that's fucking great.

That's killer. Do we not get it all for the fact that even though it was basically a mandatory attachment to your console, it was not included in the box? I think it was included in the box eventually, no? I think there might've been a bundle, but by default, the VMU was not included. It's a little game console.

It's not gonna be free. Wait, that can't... Yeah, also, it's still part of it. We've been including things that are outside of the box itself for a while here. Fair enough. It's such a wild thing to have that. It gets so much more, too,

because like, Griffin, it had multiplayer. You could plug a VMU into another VMU. Like in Avatar. Like a gigapet. Just like in Avatar's gigapet. Do you guys think the Dreamcast is the best looking video game console of all time? I think it looks so cool.

I think it looks so cool. It looks so cool that It's round and square. Are you kidding me with this? It's round and square at the same time. How's that possible? In the logo? It's rounded square, and then it's got a giant triangle on it like hey How many video game consoles have a logo that is not like a letter mark that you remember? I mean the super Famicom for sure That's why I might be it I might be so I think and the controller looks great I will say though guys the dreamcast controller to hold Not a blast not a real treat

It's a to you and if you don't have a VMU because you didn't buy one, it does look very shitty to just have a hole in your controller. The triggers are also pretty rotten on the Dreamcast controller. I remember the squeakiness of these triggers. They would get very squeaky over time. And again, even though I acknowledge, I guess we're putting it up against what, the Switch? Switch and the 360.

We're talking about three examples of very unreliable consoles, because each one of them, either a disc read error or stick drift, or the three lights on the front of your Xbox 360. Yeah. So I guess it's a wash at that point. Yeah. Yeah, the controller kind of fails the Dreamcast a bit. Hey, other things for the Dreamcast a bit. Hey, other things for the Dreamcast here though. Built with dual booting capacity for Windows. So if we're talking about like-

Yeah, but you would have to be a super fucking huge dork to do that. Okay. Like how big of a dork would you have to be? I mean the Dreamcast was the first console- I get it, I was a dork. You don't have to say it out loud. The Dreamcast was the first console I got online

to play Phantasy Star Online. Yes. And that was pretty easy to do. All right, the first game I played online was NFL 2K. Yeah. Known sports guy. Also, you can get an adapter to go beyond 56K when you wanted to go online.

That's true. 57 if you wanted to play with the big boys. Big stuff. The interface also, if that is something you care about, is kind of iconic. I feel like anytime you had to manage your data through the Dreamcast interface, it was always, I don't know, it had such, that is such a vibe to me of the era.

I mean, I think the 360 interface is like, that's the gold standard of this era. Yeah, I guess I look at it as Dreamcast in terms of innovation and setting the template, does a little bit of everything. It gets people online before that is common. It gets them online fast, which was even more unusual. Its online features were like quite robust in terms of, it's hard not to talk about the games here, but something like more unusual. Its online features were quite robust in terms of,

it's hard not to talk about the games here, but something like Phantasy Star Online having a literally translation features in it is, I don't know, okay, okay, okay. Sorry. We can't consider that. The Switch, ignoring that, the Switch is a more innovative console

by like a fucking mile. I think in terms of just, yes, it's a portable thing, but I think it's like really hard to ignore the fact that the Dreamcast literally had windows built into it and made it so you could develop for it. That is a huge thing. I can get it, it's not as like, it's not as sexy. Forget that, like what percentage of people

actually fucking did that? Nobody. Nobody ever. Uh, I guess they're all... What do you mean? I think, I think, oh god. Let's do the rubric. I know that the Switch is going to win here, which is weird, but I want to just go through the rubric. I think Dreamcast to best. I'm still firmlyirmly in camp dreamcast at best. I think it's fine

I'm a I'm a sucker for like the history of the end dreamcast changed fucking everything and then it failed Catastrophically in doing so it died for our sins so that it walked and fell over and died so that other consoles could run One of its features you could just pirate all of the games if you want I'm not in every fucking game on the tree One of its features you could just pirate all of the games if you wanted I pirated every fucking game on the Dreamcast. So easy! Yeah! Nobody talks about that feature.

Okay, which box looks cooler? Congratulations, Dreamcast. Which is more innovative in terms of features UI? I think it's the Switch. Let's give it to the Switch for now. Which has the more comfortable controller? The Dreamcast, ironically. I think we just discussed how it was and it was a misery to hold. Which has the more comfortable controller? The Dreamcast, ironically.

I think we just discussed how it wasn't, and it was a misery to hold. I held Joy-Cons? I mean, if you're saying that I really... Okay, now, I really hate using the Joy-Cons. I really hate using the Joy-Cons. What about Pro Controller? Do we count that? I mean, that's, you gotta pay extra. I mean- We've been considering that for everything else.

And I love, I think the Pro Controller is pretty solid. Yeah, the Pro Controller is- I think the Switch beats the Dreamcast. Think about those triggers, guys. It sucks. Yeah, uncomfort, I'll give it to you. I think cooler controller, Dreamcast, I'm fine with that. Reliability, they're all pretty shitty in different ways.

Which is more portable Switch. Switch. I think the Switch wins. I think Dreamcast is not the best. You don't have to be married to the rubric though. Again, it is a starting point. I put a ring on it. Why are we giving reliability to the Switch? We're not giving it to anybody. Yeah, it's a... Okay, but can you... Ugh. So it's just a tie.

It's like, doesn't count. But what if it did, right? Just because, like, is there any way for us to quantify that? It sucks that we can't- Yeah, well I usually- That we're removing one of the rubrics in the final consideration.

We can keep it. And let's look at the reliability issues. When the Xbox 360 fails, you just don't have a console. When the Dreamcast fails, you can't play certain discs. You have to put a dictionary on top of the system. When the Nintendo Switch fails, sometimes Link runs around when you don't want him to run around. I guess you're saying that, yes, it is less catastrophic, these failures. Yeah, I don't hear a lot about just switches

just not fucking working anymore. Yeah. I'm sure that it happens, but yeah, I guess. Yeah, I think reliability, I think, in that case, does go to Switch. Damn it, I really- I mean, I think Dreamcast is a more interesting winner, but I think if we, the scientists that we are,

we need to look at the rubric. I agree. I would make, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's a Switch. Switch the best? Switch the best. Dreamcast not the best. Dreamcast?

I still feel pretty certain Dreamcast the best, so I don't know where to go from here, guys. The way I see it, Dreamcast the best. I mean, do we want to go from here guys. Cause I, the way I see it Dreamcast to best. I mean, do we want to re-litigate it from the jump again and see if we get the same result? Let's start back at the beginning. Let's start back at the beginning.

Which was cooler, Dreamcast, which is more innovative in terms of UI and features. Dreamcast, it has the VMU, which has the more comfortable controller. No, the fucking Switch was a portable. That was the Switch, cause it transformed portability in gaming consoles. So did the fucking VMU. the VM you did that first you got a lot of

Followers have been a lot of things like the VM use since that that's true fucking counting the game boy the switch doesn't even happen if I Shit because Sega said what if it was a Consolid could play at home and on the go and And Nintendo was like, yeah, we'll steal that idea. In 20 years. Wow. Okay, fair enough. Awesome.

You know what? Guess what, guys? Dreamcast. I knew it! I knew it! Yeah! I knew it! Thank you, my bias.

You did it again. My biases have been confirmed. Thank you, besties. Listen, if you're feeling sore about that, Nintendo's got three fucking consoles in the top five. And also Sega doesn't even get to make these anymore. So let us have a moment for them. Let them have fun.

It's the only context in which, I mean, it does kind of feel like in hindsight that we created a contest that only the Dreamcast could win. Yes. But congratulations to the Dreamcast. Thanks to you for listening. We appreciate you.

We have run very long here. So let's wrap up quickly and just say, thank you so much for your support. I hope you're pleased with the outcome. All right, that's gonna do it for us at the Besties. Until next time, be sure to join us again next month for the Besties, because should the world's best friends pick the world's best games? Besties!