The Besties - Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree is a LOT

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

Can the game of the year be a DLC expansion? This week, The Besties discuss Elden Ring: The Shadow of the Erdtree, the highly anticipated addition to one of the greatest games of all time. Is it too hard? How is it different from the original game? Can The Besties get gud? In the back half, what do we want from FromSoftware moving forward? Listen to find out! Get the full list of games (and other stuff) discussed at www.besties.fan. Want more episodes? Join us at patreon.com/thebesties for three bonus episodes each month!

Good news, guys. It's been a while. Started in the mid-80s, but it's been working its way through the courts, but my trademark finally came in. So you don't need to worry anymore. Things are gonna be great, and I'm gonna bring you guys with me.

Don't worry. So I'm so excited to find out what joke you're about to make. I've been working a while, and- And more, you know, okay, Griffin, did you think the next thing out of his mouth was gonna be more peddling up? Cause I did not think he was gonna,

I thought he had realized how big of a ramp he had made and I did not expect him to lay a few more bricks on there. No, I'm stoked though. You know, for a while it's been like something that I've been trying to do. Wow, and yet he persisted inspiring that it was gonna happen at times but eventually it happened and the trademark finally came in yeah now a lot of people might know Jesus Christ Russ righty tighty

but what they might not know is that there's a second part of it. Yeah. Back in the mid 80s, all anyone was really saying was righty tighty. But I came in and was like, what if there could be a little bit more? Yeah. That's cool.

And my phrase, you've probably heard of it at this point, cause I think it's reached the site guys, is lefty Lucy. Yeah. Okay. That was you. That was, guys, is Lefty Lucy. Yeah. Okay. That was you. That was me. You did Lefty Lucy. Yeah, around the mid-80s, or 86, 87.

That's so cool, man. Can I say, actually, I thought this story was gonna be made up, but I could see people in the mid-80s be like, hey, righty tighty. And then Russ dips in behind him and is like, Lefty Lucy. Well, we knew, but there's only the other way.

That's right. I don't think we needed lefty Lucy. We didn't need lefty Lucy. And yet there's a reason why it reached this level of general knowledge and reached the zeitgeist in such a powerful way. And I think the person that originated it should see some of that, should benefit in some way.

And that's you. And that's me. And that's me. And you came up with Lefty Lucy. And when I came up with Lefty Lucy, yes. Okay. Okay. So really all I need from everyone, first of all, if you say Lefty Lucy, please follow it with TM.

Pretty reasonable. That's easy. Anyone can do that. Secondly, just, I think we worked it out, it was like three and a half cents per usage. So you can just like, That's good. You can bundle that you don't need to send individual checks for each time. Wait until you've done a few. Annually, do it annually.

December 15th is like a good time to kind of do it. Just make sure it's a calendar because we're not doing it. Russ is not paying us good. That's fine. Yeah, thank you. And just a huge thanks. I heard from them, Russ, the drag community wanted me to thank you for giving them a really powerful name In lefty Lucy that just a lot of them were able to use and yeah now certainly do they owe you money or?

Incredibly an enormous amount of money. Oh man. I wish you'd been recording all this shoot Why don't we put stuff like this in the show? People would like you worked hard on that. And now no one's hearing it. Great. ["Spring Day in the City"] My name is Justin McIlroy and I know the best game of the week. Your foul Tarnished made Atlas without light. I'm Griffin McIlroy Tarnished.

Oh, I know the best game of the week too. My name is Russ Frustick. Hi Tarnished. This week we're going to be talking about Elden Ring, Shadow of the Erd Tree. But what's that, Griffin? That's the new DLC for Elden Ring, and it's the size approximately of one Elden Ring.

Yeah, it's a big one, and we're gonna talk about all of it, every square inch. We're gonna spoil the hell out of it. I don't know that we're doing it. We're not going to spoil it. We're not going to do that. We're just the beginning parts. We'll see.

We'll see you on the other side. So, Justin, I want to start with the adventure that you took to begin. Yeah. So you can't. I started this game and I had my 125 level big boy no Recalling how any of it worked? I remembered somehow that by the end of it. I had into the game I had an infinite man a death ray that I used on everybody. Yeah, that got nerf. That doesn't work anymore Yeah, it doesn't work anymore. I had no memory of any of that stuff. So I

Started playing and then I realized I didn't have any grace points I got to have any teleport points and I realized that I'd started a new game plus big mistake Right at the end just to see what what else is going on Yeah, can't revert that or anything and then I would have to play through the stuff again and including that Radon fight that I just, I'm only going to do once in my life, I don't want to do again. And I think they made it easier. I just found a save that was approximate to what I had that, and use that. Uh, and it was fine.

Cause like not as much of your, at least I got the sense that not as much of your power from Elden Ring is necessarily transferring over, it's more concerned with your Skadu Tree fragments and your secret ash. Gotta numb me down on those Skadu Tree fragments, man. Gotta eat the Skadu Tree. Yeah, it is a comical amount of steps.

If you're starting from scratch, from a new game plot specifically, you really have to go through some hoops to get through to the DLC. So, I think we should talk first maybe about the kind of like difficulty, right? Because I feel like the response to this DLC has been really interesting. Because FromSoft games usually attract a crowd

that is very exclusionary, very gatekeep-y, very get-goody. And there has been a lot of discussion about this DLC. The way that it balances power is you basically, as you start the DLC, you have access to this blessing that is only active when you're in the new DLC area. And when you start, you have none of it and you are considerably weaker.

I played a whole run through of this game over the past month and a half to get ready for this DLC. The original Elden Ring. The original Elden Ring. The original Elden Ring. And made just this crazy build that was so overpowered, I blew through the game, no problem. And then you show up in the world, and you're just like in this big open area,

you're like, oh, this is weird. And then you see a little mausoleum, you're like, I'll go in there, and you see a boss gate, you're like, no problem, and you go in there, it's just one little guy, and he's got a sword and a crossbow, and you're like, this little baby boy, I'm gonna smack his ass. And then he destroys you.

It's actually your ass. It's your ass that gets clapped, because you don't got those Skadu tree fragments, which is what you got to get. And to be clear, it works, the way it works is you have everything that you had previously, your stats carry over, the items that you found, the talismans, your spells, everything carries over,

but basically the scatter tree fragments are the equivalent of like, when you start, you're at like 10% of what your total power would be in terms of damage dealing. And then as you find more scatter tree fragments, presumably you reach 100%. It reaches 100%, yeah, if you find them all. So what happens is like, you are in way over your head immediately.

No matter how strong you are, you are in over your head. And you run around, you go to these, it's fucking huge, there's all kinds of like little dungeons and big legacy dungeons, but like every boss fight is a nightmare. It's so, so, so, so hard until you get up on your horse and you run around and you just explore

and you find new shit and you unlock a bunch of fast travel points and you find a bunch of those skeddity fragments and you start increasing your strength, maybe you find a spirit ash that you like that you can boost up some new weapons. And then you come back and you can hold your own. And in that sense, there has been a lot of people who have been very turned off by that

because they had these, you know, rune level 350 dimmy gods that they just like, you know, Hulkamania ran wild all over the base game. And then as soon as they get in here, everything kills them in one shot. But I think there is something very intrinsic to FromSoft Games and Elden Ring in what you have to do in order to succeed in the DLC, which is like,

run around, get stronger, find any edge you can get over your opposition. That's like, to me, that is core FromSoft shit. And so if it hadn't been that way, and I had just loaded in and beat every boss first try with my incredibly overpowered build, I don't know, that would have been a bummer. It would have been boring, right?

And so like, this is how they have balanced that. It is not communicated especially well, which I think is the big frustration. But once I sort of figured out like, I have to be smarter, I have to be more careful, I have to play this like I played the first Dark Souls, which is like go online and say like, I'm getting my ass whipped, like what am I doing wrong?

And then playing more conservatively, changing my build from being like this one shot, glass cannon, boss slayer to like, I actually need to like put on some talismans that make me quite a bit beefier. And I need to be way more concerned with like not getting hit rather than just like trying to face tank every single boss like I did in the base game.

What's funny is I, I'm gonna step on my snobby horse yet again, slap on hobby horse. I've not, I've been playing this game without looking anything up. That's like my classic move. I did it with Animal Well as we recall. I'm doing it with this game as well. And I have not had difficulty issues with this game, even though I know...

Fuck yeah, there he is. I know that there is... He had to know how it would sound and yet he said it anyway. He did it anyway. He had to. But there's a reason for that is- Because you're a monster. Because I'm a monster, but also my default style of play

is I'm not gonna do the next dungeon until I feel like I've thoroughly fucking combed the area. And that was not because of the scatter tree, that's just how I play these games. And so it paired perfectly with the fact that this system was in the game, because I was able to find all this shit just by playing how I normally play. Now I also have played through the first Elden Ring and now this, as like an almost entirely pure mage build, intelligence, sorcery, etc.

Which has made fights that I know people are like really struggling with, not so bad because I'm able to, you know, stay at range and cast and use spirits and some things. This is my big, this is where I bumped with it, actually. Cause I- Is bumped good or bad? Bad.

A bumped is bad. Okay. It was in a, I play the same kind of build, right? So I actually went and got the, there's like a sorcery sword in one of the things where you can do like spells and a little bit of attacking. It's bad at both. So I threw it in the garbage.

So I just stuck with the mage stuff, like you're talking about. Sure. The n the, the nukes and what have you. Uh, what is, what is tough for me about that with, with the way this is scaled is. I don't know so much of that is about min maxing and figuring out like the best order for these things to be in and then what spells to use at certain times or whatever. Sure. And a lot of that is information that's like, I don't, it disincentivizes experimentation

with your build, with your skills, with all that stuff. I'm afraid to put on a new talisman because I have them all set up the way that this build works. Well, but let me ask you. When you say this build works, And- Well, but let me ask you. Yes, please ask me. When you say this build works, where did you get that information from? Just from playing or did you read online,

hey, this is an optimal build? No, I experimented with different spells, right? Okay. On each boss and some were like had a quicker casting time or whatever, but it's like, if I looked up like, if you equip these different talismans, then you're going to get a great, you know, you'll get the best like setup for these spells. DPS, whatever. But it's like, if I looked up like, if you equip these different talismans, then you're going to get a great, you know, you'll get the best like set up for DPS spells. And a lot of the spells like I came into it with, right? Sure. I came into it with the gear that I

have. I came into it with spells that I have. And I played for a really long time and didn't really get anything that I like didn't have that I wanted to put on because it's already set up the way that I wanted to be. Right, I understand. And also the scattatry fragments for me, that was tough because I don't like to do the sort of like every single inch. I like to play through it and see the stuff.

And when I get to a fight, I wanna work on that fight until I know how to do it and not like run around and then come back to it later. Like I, I, I hate playing that way. Like I, I get to a thing and I want to play through it and do it that way. So the scatty tree fragments, the problem that I have with that, those being the, the, the marker is a lot of those are so random, like, or they feel random. Like there's dudes running around with pots on their heads. And if you hit those dudes,

you get this essential item that you need to level up. Yeah. Why? I thought they were all at the markers of- No, there's 50 of them scattered across the floor. I didn't know that. Right, so not to be like, not to like, spoiler-weather, but yet again, it's like, if you want to do this, you gotta have a guide in your other hand.

If you want to play through this in a reasonable amount of time that isn't hundreds of rust rustic hours, like scouring every inch, like again, it's got to be like, okay, you go over this hill, and then it starts to feel so mechanical. And what I miss is that fun arc of getting those little things that are making me incrementally more powerful

and survivable and like having to cobble together a build because I don't have the stuff that I need exactly and gaining all these things that really are upgrades for me. And so none of the carrots were there. And even like playing through the bosses, when I beat a boss, it didn't matter. Like, I don't, it didn't,

it doesn't really have an effect. And that feels really bad. I think the like shadow blessing system where it's like everything scales just in the DLC area is a really elegant system executed kind of inelegantly. Because the, what Justin said is absolutely right. Like, you, these scattered tree fragments are everywhere and they are not like easily trackable, right?

It's not easy, you don't have like scattered tree fragment radar. What they are kind of doing here is what happened in Sekiro, which in Sekiro, like after you beat certain bosses, you would get a permanent upgrade to your strength with like the item that they dropped, right? Right. Or as you beat many bosses, they drop those little things that gave you extra flask charges or whatever. And that's what I thought they were gonna do with it when they were talking about it.

I thought it was gonna be tied to bosses specifically. Yes, and so instead like they've tied progression explicitly to exploration, which I like, but I also think, I don't know, there are other ways of doing that that are a bit easier to kind of just like do on just a blind playthrough. You almost think that it should have been at the end of any mini dungeon, like a little side dungeon that maybe takes you 20, 30 minutes, you're guaranteed the thing rather than hiding the things just all over the map. It would be like if in Breath of the Wild

and Tears of the Kingdom, instead of having the upgrade items in these incredibly clearly visible little puzzle dungeons that you do, they're just like, there's a guy with a fucking pot in a cave that you have to like track down. Yeah, I don't wanna, I think it will dominate probably the rest of the conversation if we focus too much.

I think that is, these are all like totally legit issues that again, I didn't run into just because of my play style, but I do appreciate that people that don't. It broke the motivation loop for me. I was really, I was struggling to keep up. just because of my play style, but I do appreciate that people that don't. It broke the motivation loop for me. I was really, I was struggling to keep up. That said, the things that I did explore while I was in it,

and I got through a good chunk of a lot of boss, well, I don't know how much of the elephant I ate. Did you go through Castle Enos, which is like a, you did, okay. Yes. That feels like, there's one big legacy dungeon at the beginning with, which is like a, you did, okay. Yes. That feels like there's like two, there's one big legacy dungeon at the beginning with a, there's like a drag, a dragon dancer fight.

Yeah. I imagine you probably did that, Juce? Yes. And then there's the Castle Enis, which is like a sort of a big fight that opens, like once you get through that area, it like opens the map enormously. Like you can really go way more places.

And I found that once I got to that point, it was very clear to me that it's like, hey, the next big place is like right in front of you, there's a giant fucking castle right there. And I was like, nope. And I went and I just ran everywhere. I was going south, I was following rivers. I was like listening to a ghost who was like,

I used to go in a coffin to slide down here to a purple land of majesty. And I was having so much fucking fun doing that. And like, yeah, I mean, again, I understand the frustration, but like that Elden Ring has always been that for me It's never been bosses progressing bosses has always been the low points for me because it always felt like a Either a skill check or a stat check whereas exploration was always in my control and this I think this game

Does the exploration part of it very very well is, there's some areas in this game that like fucking crush anything that was in the original. So fucking cool. So fucking cool. Amazing, amazing. Did you guys go up the mountain, by the way? Yes, yes, there's a very shitty mountain with a very shitty mean guy on top of it.

He sucks the worst. I really like the bosses, actually. I'm a huge fan of the bosses because it forced me for the first time. I was getting really frustrated. There is a fiery guy with a spear who sucks shit. He's so mean. He's such a mean asshole.

Yeah, he is a mean asshole. He's a mean asshole, and I just kept getting my ass just kicked by him over and over again, so I ran around, I got a little bit stronger, I'd come back, still got my ass kicked. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go online, I'm gonna summon some other players. And so I would do that, I did that with a few bosses,

and it never worked for me because it scales the enemy also. Like as you bring in other real players, it scales the enemy's HP and the strength which they hit. I never beat any bosses with help from other people because I found that they were just as clueless as I was and now the boss has three times as much health. Yeah. And so for the first time in, honestly, forever,

because when I played Elden Ring the first time, I had the same infinite mana death ray build where I was just like, this boss too hard, boop, dead. For the first time I was like, oh, I gotta just try this over and over again until it works. And so I just fought that guy over and over and over and over again until finally I like figured him out

and beat him. And it was so thrilling because I didn't think that Elden Ring could still like do that. I didn't know that, that is a really tricky feat to pull off because otherwise I would just go online and be like, what's the OP build? What's the strong build? And there isn't there really isn't one. There's like a couple pretty fucking wild things you can do once you've reached like the end of the DLC and have all the

shit, but when you're just like up against a boss it really does encourage you to just like keep trying. This is where I really struggle with it because I I don't mind to work at a boss. Like I did it in Sekiro, right? But I don't wanna waste time trying to get good if I don't have the optimal stuff. I'd rather go get the optimal stuff and have the best chance

and make it as easy on myself as possible because I don't wanna waste a lot of time learning patterns. And this really disincentivizes that because first of all, that's not really necessarily an option. And the other thing that's wild that we haven't talked about is that in the way that they've changed the leveling up, they've really changed what I think is the core loop

of the whole souls-like thing, right? Because, like, deaths aren't a... They don't matter. Like, they don't matter. Like it doesn't matter. What do you mean? Like the souls that you get, you could still use to level up. Sure.

But if you've leveled up like to the extent that I think a lot of people will go into this DLC, like you're not gonna be getting another level like with the amount of souls that you're getting frequently enough that it's gonna, like the 20,000 souls you're carrying around running around, it's going to matter. So I, I, um, I started the DLC at level one 50.

Yeah. Um, and I was like intentionally not leveling up because I, the general understanding of the first game was like the Meadow's around one 50, if you want to do PVP, which I never really did, but I just stayed there. Once I started the DLC, I was like, Meadow's around 150 if you wanna do PvP, which I never really did, but I just stayed there. Once I started the DLC, I was like, no, I'm gonna start going a little bit higher, maybe 175 or something like that.

And so I have been leveling up using this, and you do get a fuckload of souls from playing this game. And it's allowed me to unlock more capabilities of my character where previously previously was like pure intelligence. Now I can do like faith buffs and things like that. So I am still... I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is you kill a boss, you probably get enough souls to do a level.

Fine. I'm saying that like moment to moment exploring, you're not carrying around enough souls that it matters if you die. Whatever. I lost 10,000 souls. I would agree with that. I think for me, the biggest changes have been getting enough scattered tree fragments

to increase my overall blessing, and then just sort of looking at my whole build and taking it apart and putting it back together again in a much more defensive manner. There is something missing in, when I level up, it doesn't feel, I'm at 190 now, and so when I level up it's like, who gives a shit, like it really is not that big of a difference.

And also like you said, like, I'm still rocking the Blasphemous Blade, like I have not. I found a few things that I've gotten, and even upgraded to like level nine or level 10, and, still not. That's the other thing, man. It takes so much resources to level stuff up to a point where it could even be competitive

with the gear that you already have. And you don't know, again, unless you're going online and reading guides, you don't know if it's going to be better once it's all leveled up. You don't know if it's going to be worth the investment in resources. Yeah, but you're drowning in runes to level stuff up and you've basically got infinite upgrade materials

using the bell bearings from the first game, in theory, if you've played the whole first game. I understand what you're saying, but I think that there is a more elegant way of doing it. Again, if you're running around this area with a fully upgraded weapon, just have the shit that drops be more upgraded. Hala, Destiny's been doing this for years, right? Yeah, toss all your old trash. Upgraded weapon just have the shit that drops be more up be more upgrade

Destiny's been doing this for years, right? Yeah toss all your old trash like your old trash is no good here get new trash Yeah, that's I like to get new trash. Yeah, new trash. I'm gonna every season with destiny I will say I have been very pleased by Experimenting with the gear that I have found Yeah, even though I realize that like, you're right, like I'm used to using this setup and this gear, whatever. I found a light great sword. It's like a new weapon type. That's what you're talking about.

Milady? Milady is what it's called. And it's a weapon, like I never use great swords because I don't have the strength to carry them, whatever. But this is like a lighter one that kind of works a little bit like a fencing sword and then it's got like this whole secondary skill using stances that gets like comically awesome where you're You like hold the sword out parallel to the ground in like the most badass way fashion jump in midair and do like this diving dash attack and

the most badass way fashion, jump in midair and do like this diving dash attack. And fucking with that stuff where I like, oh, I find new gear, I'm gonna see what the Ash of War does. Is this gonna help me at all? Is this like fun? Is this more fun than what I was doing? Like that sort of experimentation I find really engaging. And I don't mind burning if it's gonna be 50,000 runes

to fully get it to max 10. And then I see, oh, this isn't very good. Eh, it's gonna be 50,000 runes to fully get it to max 10 and then I see, oh, this isn't very good, eh, it's fine. Yeah, it's not that huge of an investment, but I have found some shit that I think is really fun. There's fist weapons that are crazy. There's perfumer bottles that just let you throw sparks and shit around, but even when I find those and I upgrade them, the way that you build your character

is so specific and so arcane that like, I will find that stuff, upgrade it. I got these two swords, one does magic damage, one does fire damage, it's like fucking crazy. I upgraded all the way, I changed my stats a little bit, I went out there and it hit like a fucking wet noodle. So it's like, the stuff is fun.

I haven't played this joint since 2022. I don't remember why I even have this stuff. Right. I don't even wanna get in there and mess with it cause I don't know why I have it. I read some nerd on Reddit saying that was a good shit to get. I did it and beat the game.

So that's why I have it. You know what? This is a lesson. Okay. This is a lesson. Tell me what's the lesson. Don't you think this would all be way more satisfying if you hadn't read the nerd on Reddit.

Okay. Cause you could have beaten the game without the nerd and you wouldn't read the nerd on Reddit. Okay. Because you could have beaten the game without the nerd and you wouldn't have done it as fast, that's true. But you could have beaten the game without the nerd on Reddit, right? I mean, you're assuming a different reality where I don't have to play a different video game every week.

Like that's a different, and I'm not saying, and I mean like, or I don't do other stuff. Like I- No, sure. I mean, I don't, I understand. You wanna focus on other things that- I'm not even saying this is like negative about Elden Ring, the shadow of the Ur tree. I'm saying I'm somebody who really likes these games. And for me, the curve was broken enough

that I didn't enjoy engaging with it. And that's kind of like the headline for me. You may not feel that way. And I bet and I'm sure that if I had like started back at zero with a bunch of different gear and experimented and like, I could have rebuilt my character, I could have learned how to play a different, a completely different character type and learn to change everything that I was doing and whatever. But to me, what makes the most sense is I played this game as a mage for the entire time.

Like give, tell me my old spells are trash and give me a new spell. Yes. Like, or, or don't make the one new spell type that there is that, that I have heard people talk about, like being useful, these like finger type spells be a weird arcane path that you have to take to get there to get the one new thing. I don't know. I get it just like that the curve did not work for me.

I will also always push back against the idea that there is something inherently virtuous about playing these games without going online or- I'm not saying it's virtuous. Well, I'm saying to provide a counter argument, I am saying that like for me, the community aspect of this game is what makes it, right? It is that schoolyard, Castlevania, you know,

issue of like, oh, well actually, if you hit this block right here, you find the meat that you need to, like, that shit I love. I love that. And it does, you know, it's built into the game. I played a lot of this game on tour this past week, and so I played it offline on my Steam Deck. And so I played it without the messages,

and then the first time I took it online, I remembered like, oh shit, like this is, this is huge. Just to have, just to be wandering through a cave and see little messages like, uh, on your left. Like that stuff is like- There's nothing like it. I mean, I can't even imagine a video and see little messages like on your left like that The game is designed with that stuff in mind, I don't know that the game is designed with wikis in mind I think it is designed with notes and ghosts and and other things in mind. So I yeah, I completely agree that I'm really enjoying the DLC. I'm gonna finish it. I feel like there are, my main disappointment is that it looks gorgeous.

I've had a lot of fun exploring. I feel super satisfied when I beat a boss. I do feel like I'm getting stronger. I just wish that like the new stuff that there is to find had genuinely any, I'm not using any of the new incantations. I'm not, and maybe I could, like I'm sure I could. I'm sure I could mix stuff up enough. But like, I will try something and it will be half

as effective as the build that I came into it with. And there is something wrong with the math of the game, if that is true. And I just feel like, oh, this is a cool, great sword. It scales with the same stats that I scale with. I've upgraded it and it's still not doing as good. Like it's too hard to integrate stuff and too hard to change.

Even though you can re-spec it anytime, like it is still too much of a pain in the ass. It's a learning at this point. There's like so much knowledge that you have to take on just to make a change like that. If you haven't been playing, I just don't like engaging with games in that way. I don't enjoy, I wanna play them

and not have to think about math basically. Like just tell me which one does the best math. And I love the notes, the notes are the way to play it. It got hard though when even the notes that were pointing me towards treasure, I would go pick it up. It's like, what do I do with this? I don't need it.

There's a lot of very snarky notes where you'll be approaching an item you see in the distance and just see a note on the ground that's like dung ahead and then you open it and it's like another fuckin' somber smithing stone plus four. It's like, right. I guess for people that are wondering, I think there's probably a lot of people

I know plant was in this party that like play a lot of Elden Ring, the original didn't necessarily finish it. To me, it feels like there's no real reason to buy and play the DLC until you finished the main game with the note being don't start a new game. Don't start a new game. Jesus Christ, no. Because there's a lot of good stuff,

a lot of good stuff in the latter part of the game. Not so much the snow field, but certainly the howling tree and Faram Azula, whatever that is. But if you weren't enjoying the dope shit that happens at the end of Elden Ring, you will not enjoy this. You are not on board for this.

Correct. You don't wanna do this. I will also say, like, counterpoint, like, there's a YouTube video online that's like, okay, so as soon as you load into the DLC, we're gonna show you a route you can run that'll get your blessing up to like level 12, and then you can just, now you can go play it.

And be like, and be fine, and be strong enough to like have a decent chance of taking down some of the bosses. I think that's- I was able to get it to like five taking down some of the bosses. I think that's- I was able to get it to five in the first hour or so. Yeah. And it was challenging, but not impossible.

And also, again, focus on staying alive. There's a talisman called the Ritual Shield talisman that I never used in the core game. And all it does is when you have full health, when you take a hit, it reduces the damage significantly. Which as it turns out is like a pretty good way to not get one shot by every fucking boss in the game. And so like I slapped that on

and it completely changed everything for me. So like you have to play it differently. I think if you're a big Elden Ring fan, you're already playing it and who gives a shit what we say. But if you did not enjoy Elden Ring, I do not think this is going to win you over. Which is kind of why it makes sense that the DLC is such an arcane nonsense starting point

because it really is just for the fucking hardcore Elden Ring people. Which is a shame because some of the bosses are fucking incredible. Yeah, I've had a good time. It also, and I won't spoil this here, it reveals within a very subtle side dungeon, the origins of the pot people.

Oh my God. And it's the most fucked up thing you could possibly imagine. The most fucked up thing I've ever seen in a FromSoft game. I hate those little guys. Let's take a break, and then we'll come back, and we'll spend time together just as friends. No video games, nothing else, just three pals.

And then some light video games. So what do we want from this team next, from FromSoft next? We're obviously taking Bloodborne 2 off the table because that's the only answer. from this team next, from FromSoft next. We're obviously taking Bloodborne 2 off the table because that's the only answer. Man, I'll take Bloodborne 1. Just give me Bloodborne. I don't want to dig out my fucking PS4 to play Bloodborne.

Just give me Bloodborne. I guess the question I have, this is kind of a weird moment for this genre because all of these other teams are coming in and doing like a very good job at making effectively like early FromSoft games. Like Lies of P I think is a good example of that, where it feels like great.

It's not as high end as a FromSoft game, but very, very good. So they, I don't think FromSoft proper can ever go back to that unless they just re-released like a Bloodborne. I think we, because of forces that are probably that unless they just re-release like a Bloodborne. I think we, because of forces that are probably outside of their control, this whole like sub sub genre

is getting real inundated. I feel like it's getting really crowded with a lot of stuff. And I would love to see them take that as an opportunity to re-examine some of these things that are, have been sort of, there's a lot of things I feel like in this sort of sub-series of things that are not fun or pleasurable or good, but are just sort of part of it, you know what I mean? And I would love to see a little bit more analysis of like, what is good and what is fun and what is like, what- So like multiplayer is an example of that.

The way that multiplayer works in this game. The way multiplayer still handles this is pretty crazy, yeah. Yeah, it's a wild, yeah, a lot of the arcane, like having nine different types of smithing stones just in the somber subgenre, it isn't good. Like we should all be able to agree that if you're splitting somber smithing stones into nine different levels of quality,

that's not a good thing for your video game. I agree, but there is a design logic behind that where they wanted to ensure that if you just grinded smithing stones for an hour, you wouldn't have enough to fully max out a weapon in the original game. That's the rationale for breaking them out. I guess-

So change something else other than having nine smithing stones. I think the math- You're still incorrect. There is a version of this that they did, and it's called Sekiro, and it slaps ass, which is a FromSoft game without math. Without all of these considerations. When you find a new item in a Sekiro and it slaps ass which is a from soft game without math Without all of these considerate when you find a new item in a Sekiro game You can slap that shit on right away, right? There's some upgrades for your prosthesis, right?

But they work pretty fucking good and they let you do Dramatically different stuff just from from the jump right right like that to me first of all. I just want another Sekiro. It's Like pound-for-pound. I should probably play that game, right? Right. Like that to me, first of all, I just want another Sekiro. It's like pound for pound. I should probably play that game, huh? You never played Sekiro? I played like an hour or two of it. Oh man, it's fucking good. I'm gonna play it on Steam Deck after it opens. I've never been prouder of myself as a man

and as a father when I beat Sekiro. Yeah, same. I think there is something there that no other FromSoft game has really been able to capture. I think there's a hybrid version of the Souls and Elden Ring space and Sekiro, which is like- Exploration. Exploration, huge exploration, tons of items,

tons to find and equip and experiment with without having this artificial barrier of upgrades. Knowing what the soft cap is and the hard cap. If you wanna talk about some place where maybe AI does have a place in games where we could put it to use, having something that would look at the gear that I have equipped and changes to that

and be able to talk to me about that more holistically than like- A real Cortana who like pops up and is like, hi Justin. He's like, this is dog shit. You've got a bunch of mud on you like a dirty mud man. And your sword is made of cotton candy and everyone's gonna kill you.

Like something that can analyze to tell me like, oh, this is pretty good. Good job, good idea. This is gonna work for you good. You're gonna do good hits with this. Like that would be great. So I didn't have to worry about that stuff. My number one dream for a FromSoft game

is for them to make a 2D game. That's crazy. Because I think that they'll spend 10 years, a part of the reason that Elden Ring takes so long to design is because it was a 3D fully explorable world, but their design mentality for the most part, their game design mentality is so strong that I would love to see something that they could put out

in like two years, three years maybe. I mean, I say that in silk song, it's still not out, but they have more people than that. I'd be really fascinated to see what they could do in the 2D space. I fully disagree. There is nothing, when you load into this new shit and you wander, some of the vistas that you see

in this game is like, no one does it like this. What do you want those people to do while they're making this 2D, John? Just have a side team that's like the team that worked on fucking Dave the diver have have 15 people in a room So your big plan for what from soft should do next another smaller from soft inside of its belly Yeah, to make your to be sure that already exists because we got armored corps last year Oh, yeah, their office isn't even near the other guys They don't even know how to find the Armored Core guys.

I would just be curious to see what they could do with like a smaller project, because otherwise, we're waiting another fucking 10 years for Elden Ring 2. I don't think we're gonna be waiting that long for whatever it is. No. FromSoft is, I think, pound for pound, right up there with like, in my mind,

Nintendo with just the best game developers. You look at the hit rate, it's 100%. Everything they make is fucking baller. And these games are some of my favorite video games ever, so I just kind of want them to, don't change a thing, guys, you're fucking crushing it. I do not feel qualified. Keep those somber stones where they are.

Well, maybe change some of the bad stuff. Maybe, yeah. I think the math stuff. Maybe. I think that the dream for me would be something that takes like, that would be a more multiplayer experience that takes classes seriously where like, you could just be a, like being able to have a team composition and then going into a dungeon that like scales would be so cool.

Like going in with with people actually simulating the thrill of having someone else in there with you fighting the bosses, but it being not having this weird abstraction of the ghosts there in between it. So good news, Justin. There's a mod called Schemeless Multiplayer, and it basically allows you to do all of that stuff without the nonsense of like, you just beat a boss,

so they're gonna get unsummoned for no reason. So if you wanna mess with that, you can't- So your counter argument to what FromSoft should do next is actually- I'm not a counter argument, I'm just saying for you- Their army of unpaid nerds is actually already kind of doing it badly. That's your counter.

Just saying for you, it might bring you joy to know that this option exists. What part of this last hour makes you think that I want to be a dirty dog rolling around in the numbers dirt with the Elden Ring perverts? I want them digging through the dirt for truffles and then they find the truffles and they bring them to me. That's how I want this. Or I'm over here pitching AI, stealing these dudes jobs. You know what I mean?

I want AI to put them out of business. I'm not gonna go in there. Oh, have you smelled it in the Elden Ring room? No way, I'm not going in, Russ. I really like, my favorite thing about Bloodborne is, I mean the whole shit, the whole aesthetic and everything, but the Chalice Dungeons system was so fucking cool. It was just like, yeah, you make a randomized dungeon

and then you can go explore it with multiplayer and it's not a big deal. Having a repeatable, farmable sort of thing like that, I really, really enjoyed it and it's something they have not fucked with a little bit since that game came out. There's so many good ideas across so many of their games, right, and it feels like, I think Elden Ring to its merit

does do a lot of this, of taking a lot of the stuff from other games that has worked and incorporating it. I think that they have come up with even more and better ideas since Elden Ring came out, and we're ready for another, you know, another experiment. Do we want to guess, to close this segment out, do we want to guess when Elden Ring 2 actually will?

I don't think Elden Ring 2 is the next thing. I agree with that. I think it is outrageous that a Bloodborne re-release hasn't happened yet. It feels, I mean. I mean, it is tied up in corporate issues with Sony and the previous studio that doesn't exist anymore. That's why it hasn't happened, is my understanding. So it's not for lack of interest.

I'm just saying, look at their history, right? We've gotten a Dark Souls 1 and 2 remaster. We've, I feel, we got a Demon Souls remake from, obviously from another studio, like it feels outrageous that there has not been this. Yeah, the demand is there, I think as a studio they want it, it's just. I really hope they don't do another Elden Ring.

Really? Yeah, I just, I really would love to see them challenge themselves with a world that is just a little bit more cogent and less like, that was part of my issue with this DLC is it just started to feel like more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, and I lost a sense, like I don't have any idea of like the story of the world or what's happening in it.

Oh man, we didn't even talk about that. I am narrative. I mean, just by intent. Well, you see, Kindly Mickeleh has charmed us all with his great rune. There's stuff that happens in like weird dialogue pop-ups in this game that I'm like, that feels important. I don't know why it's just popping up in a text box

at the bottom of the screen. But I would love to see them take narrative a bit more, like to challenge themselves with a bit more concrete narrative. I mean, have they, here of the screen. But I would love to see them take narrative a bit more, like challenge themselves with a bit more concrete narrative. I mean, here's the question, have they ever? And I ask that by saying, have you ever played through a FromSoft game without reading stuff online or watching YouTube videos

and known what the fuck was going on? Sekiro. Yeah, Sekiro. But here's the other thing I'll say is because they're not meant to be that, right? They're meant to be these Experiential worlds, right? So I don't want to experience this world again I want them to make a new like and I don't want to go to Bloodborne world again

Make a new world make a space space Space world. Space world 2000 does not represent all of our views here Bloodborne world is the one I would most like to go through because it's the coolest aesthetic. Coolest shit. Elden Ring is like, the aesthetic is like, dark souls tried to clean up because their mom came over. Sorry guys, you can't just put angels in it and pretend.

I like, I always like the Elden Ring aesthetic when you turn a corner and there's just alien, like alien shit and like fingers coming out of the ceiling and it's like, whoa, what's going on? But I feel like again, Bloodborne did that stuff way, They did. way better. With coats, with long coats. With long cool coats and yeah.

We have a few reader mail things to talk about, mostly from the Nintendo discussion last week. But before we do that, we have a letter. This comes from Bass Toad. Uh, listening to you guys talk about Destiny feels like you're talking about a game that was made up for an episode of CSI. Not a question. Just wanted to say this extremely good joke.

That's fair. Russ and I played some Destiny last night. Had a great fucking time. Did that dual Destiny mission, that two player mission, it's the best stuff that that game has to offer, man. Incredibly good, I think it is my last hurrah for Destiny. I do not necessarily have a drive to keep playing and mastering my build for a game that is essentially

like gonna be pretty much dead, but it was a blast and it was a great ending. Great send off, it was fun playing Destiny with someone who was like, man, I'm gonna miss this. I'm gonna miss these guys. It's a reminder, that mission in particular, which I know a lot of people will probably never ever play,

but maybe watch a video of it. It's a reminder that there's so much great stuff in Destiny that is locked behind things like raids, where you have to spend fucking six hours throwing yourself at it with a bunch of people, that really they need to move into the main game. And I think this is a good example of that. Also the final mission where you finish off the witness

is a great example of that, of recreating the panache and spectacle of Raid Destiny in a game that most people can actually access. Right, yeah. So bravo for them in doing that and goodbye to Destiny forever. Not for me, I'm still playing it a lot. We have another letter, this comes from Jakey.

Rest in peace, Alpha Dream, this is in reference to the Mario and Luigi games. I feel people are insufficiently suspicious of whether or not the magic of their Mario and Luigi games can be replicated by another studio. Those games are special. I agree. I do know there were a number of people we don't know how many but a number of people that were in the previous Mario and Luigi studio, Alpha Dream that got shuttered that went on to get jobs in Nintendo proper, and I imagine some of those are working on Mario and Luigi, I think it's tough because a lot of that is writing,

and so you need to make sure that you have good writing people on your team. And Nintendo, not necessarily known as a writing place, but their RPGs, I think, tend to be written quite well. So hopefully they- I think Nintendo's earned the fact that they're good stewards of these things, I like to think, with a lot of the, most of the brands.

Kind of. I mean, this one is touchy, right? This is the touchy one, because the Mario RPG sort of subgenre has really fucking fallen off, right? Since the Wii era, it was a dry spell there of the games coming out not being, I mean the last three Paper Mario games were not good games.

I just figured I'd outgrown them and that's why I wasn't playing them. No, there's more to it than that. Yeah, it just didn't delight me anymore, I felt like. No. My heart would come too hardened. Jonah was asking why we didn't mention Mario Party. Cause we don't give a shit.

Yeah. I just can't, I don't know what environment I would have to be in to play a Mario Party and have a good time again, I guess in a party. I could play a Mario Party with her and my kids and that's gonna be a pass or a reason. Exactly. Yeah. No way.

Because it'd be miserable? Yeah, it would be that like you can't. The idea of inviting Mario to my home to make my kids compete makes you want to strangle it. Just thinking about him. And he's one of my best digital friends. And the idea that he would come to my home and be like, she's a better at golf carts than he is.

Like, it's wild. I don't need that. The first time that I would land on a space that made Bowser come and eat all my kids' stars, not a joke, I'm getting heart palpitations. Cause you're saying it. That would lead to a thermonuclear, Oh, oh, oh.

devastation, cataclysmic event in my house. That would like, it would be a big deal. We would be talking about that for a long, long time. So like, no thank you. The larger problem is that you made it very easy for the internet to edit you saying, the first time we landed on a space to make Bowser come. That's just gonna happen now.

There is a, yeah, some of the boards, when you land on those green exclamation points, it makes Bowser come, and then you win? Which I think is fucked up. Like, I don't think making Bowser come should be a win condition. Oh boy. I have not been playing fucking anything else.

I've, it's outrageous to even think that that would be a possibility with Elden Ring DSM. Yeah, I would echo that. I would echo that. Didn't you watch, did you watch any movies on planes? Did you watch any TV? I've been watching the new season of The Boys. It's still, I mean, still basically the same shit.

It's got nasty folks doing really nasty stuff It's a really weird show man. It just keeps getting nastier. I don't know there's a point to it It's just like nasty shit I don't know why I I do still don't know why watch it I find myself compelled to watch it even though like I watch it. I'm like that's fucking gross, dog The satire the satire is pretty pointed for a show that is as widely watched as the boys is. Yes, and the characters are all great. It is a really well-made show.

It's just like, I don't watch anything else remotely like it. There's also a fascinating fight club effect with the sort of main antagonist, Homelander, who is very much the sort of Trump main antagonist, Homelander, who is like very much the sort of Trump stand in, you know, uber, uber-minch like type guy. And there's people who like the boys, who don't realize that the boys is ragging on them. And the boys is making it increasingly obvious.

Yeah. And it's still not clicking for some people. Yeah, I've not really. I watched pitch with Colin Firth. That's where we're at You watched you watched? The original fever pitch was a soccer movie. It was not a baseball movie with Colin Firth written by Nick Hornby It was so confusing. Yeah. Cause there was also Jimmy Fallon, wasn't it a Jimmy Fallon movie?

Yeah, that was the remake. That was the American remake where they made it about baseball. What's cool is that when you're playing soccer, you play on a pitch, but in baseball you pitch the ball so they didn't need to change the title. That's cool, man.

I like that. That's about the only thing cool about that movie. Great. Great. I think we did it. Watched all that jazz on the flight. Bob Fosse, all that jazz? Yeah.

It was amazing. Did that invent jazz hands? Was that the first time? No, I mean, Fosse is very much connected to some of the traditions that you're talking about there, but I never watched any of his movies, man. All that jazz, it's his life, it's a movie made by someone who had just about himself, starring Roy Schneider

about himself dying. Rob Schneider? Is in it? No, he's not Roy Schneider. He's playing a Bob Fosse standing called Joseph Gideon. And Bob Fosse had just had a heart attack and that was caused by his work and his stress and it almost killed him.

So he made a movie about what if the exact same thing happened to the guy but it did kill him. And the movie is about him dying. And it's got incredible dance scenes and ends with him and Ben Verene just singing their frigging hearts out. And it's amazing. Cool, if I go, that's how I want it.

You guys, you can't watch it anywhere. It's on archive.org. You can just look for it there and watch it there for free. Go for it. Hey, Russ, will you thank all the nice folks who have been supporting us on the tree? Yeah, real quick, I'm just going to recap the games we discussed. Elden Ring, Shadow of the Erd Tree, Destiny 2, The Final Shape. We also talked about the boys,

Fever Pitch, All That Jazz. Thank you to the following patrons on the Patreon, which is at patreon.com slash the besties, Annie the Feywild Therapist, Truth in Motion Studios, Soaring Chris and Logan McElroy. What? Do we know who that is? Impossible. Is that a friend of the family?

That's so rude, man. I don't ask you if you are related to everyone that says Mario wrong. Cool. Well, yeah, listen to the Patreon episodes. We have a new episode of Rest Eats. We've got a new bracket episode coming at you next week. So keep an eye out for that.

And we're also gonna be voting on what the next series of bracket episodes are gonna be. So keep an eye on the Patreon. We got a good batch. We just brainstormed them. They're gonna be good. We got some good stuff coming. What are we doing next week?

Well, next week, Russ, we're gonna be talking about Mario, Luigi's incredible, scary adventure, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD. That's right, the definitions are higher than ever with this little nobody, and he is busting, because it makes him feel real good, but not as good as it would if his brother Mario died.

That's his fondest dream. That's all he wants. Hope people don't talk about that. He's too chicken shit to do it. He's psyching himself up one day to do it with the the blast every time he's gonna be like he's sucking up a ghost Mario comes into the room. Yes, Luigi invited him in and he turns in the last second like and sucks him right into the blaster Yeah, well, no my brother. I guess I'm in charge. No That's your Luigi

It's my Luigi that I'm Luigi Okay, that's a ghost. I'll be sure to join us again next week for the best news because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games Besties!