The Besties - Herdling is Beautiful, But is it Fun?

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

This week, The Besties wrangle fantastical beasts in the new herding game, Herdling. It’s a beautiful throwback to the atmospheric games of the PS2 era. But your enjoyment will depend on your gaming preferences. In the back half, we open the listener mailbag, and Justin shares his thoughts on an alternate, more modifiable video game industry. Get the full list of games (and other stuff) discussed at www.besties.fan. Want more episodes? Join us at patreon.com/thebesties for three bonus episodes each month!

Before the recording began, before the pot, in the cold, cold or open, we were discussing Metal Gear Solid for whatever reason. And we're talking about Hideo Kijima and some words of wisdom and stuff. And I wanted to tell you guys the one thing he ever said to me. And it was, I hold, I really keep in my heart. We were at E3 and I saw Hideo Kajima with a colleague of mine who knew him pretty well. They were like pals. So he'd go over and he said he was going to see a movie He was there with his translator and his translator said he was going to go see a movie

And I said oh cool what are you seeing And Hideojima looked to me and said Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun It's like oh cool Terminator nice have fun That's the only thing Hittonogime ever said to me Awesome He broke the language barrier with the state from Terminator It kicked ass

That's awesome that universal language Yes the universal language It was awesome I feel like he probably gleaned a lot from What I assume was the Most Recent Terminator movie Which wasn't like honestly There's secretly been 80 of them

I don't know like I can't keep up But it was one of one of them was around I'm just saying if you look at some of the stuff That guy has to say about machines And computers and machines Of the future computers and machines It could all have started right there You may have been there

The most important day of his life and now he's all about tar what does that say oh he saw tar he saw tar he saw tar he saw tar he saw tar a little more of a language barrier there but still

I think he basically got it Cape Blanchet turned in a great performance but I'm all about that sticky oily nasty stuff he walked out halfway through he's like this is not what I signed up this movie did not deliver I'm sorry

I need a second I do want to start the show but the idea of him coming out of tar and I know this is not a comedy forward podcast but you guys have to understand it the idea of Hiraogu going into to see the film tar

and then leaving halfway through because no tar was contained therein is really powerful My name is Justin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week. My name is Griffin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week. My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week. My name is Russ Frustach. I know. I know the best game. best game of the week. Welcome to the besties where we talk about the latest and greatest and home

interactive entertainment. It's a video game club just by listening. You, my friend, have become a member. Now, as everyone knows, Griffin and I are members of the Marshall Thundering Herd, proud alumni. But today we're thinking a little smaller. From the ashes, we rise. From the ashes, we rise. We find glory. We are. Marshall Funerals in today. Thank you so much, Justin. I agree. But today we're talking, thinking a little smaller with herdlings? What's a herdling? Heardling is a video game about herding these mythical, fantastical creatures that kind of look like giant, I don't know, ox, but with way too much hair. They look like cursed yaks, sort of.

If a yak had a curse put on it. Yeah, like if the Muppet organization was responsible for a never-ending story eight, maybe this would be a creature that would show up. in it and you heard them through a pseudo dystopic but also beautiful setting and that's the whole that's the game that's the game all right well let's talk about that uh right after this have you guys played any of uh i believe it's okomotives other games far and yes the other yeah yeah so i know them from the far series i believe there are two of them and i played through the first one i don't think i played the second one but i really really like the first one but i really like the first one and there's actually a lot of connections from the first not lower connections just like from

a game design standpoint connections from the first one to this game which is far i think it was called loan sales that was the one i think like ios or something does that sound right it's on like everything but uh the premise was basically you were just this like little teeny little guy and you had a giant like boat effectively like an airboat or whatever actually went on land so it was a landboat a car and you tried to move it from one position in the world to another and to do that you had to go through a lot of trials where like oh no there's a giant pit or oh no how are you going to get this thing from here to there using you have to like bring parts back to the ship there's like a lot of like ferrying this giant mechanical beast through this world and obviously in herdling which is their newest game you are ferrying this herd of creatures many big beings Big beasts. Yes. An increasing number of big beasts.

You'll reach times where, like, certainly, I'm not going to have any more big beasts than I currently have. They keep them coming. No, you're going to get more. Yeah. Griffin, you had played those games? I played loan sales. I didn't play the other one. I'll be honest, it was wild for me playing this game the week after we did sort of the C.

Yeah. Because I think you could make the argument that Herdling kind of slots into. to this like atmospheric, dialogue-free, very interpretive, very lovely, kind of curated, you know, story experience. And sort of the sea does that same thing as well. It's just that the, let's say, the tempo of those two games could not be any more fundamentally different. If sort of the sea is a roller coaster,

this is like a dark ride to use the Disney parlance. Very, very generous in terms of pacing as you're describing that. I would say it was sort of the sea as like a roller coaster. This is like having to walk across a balance beam. It is very, very, the progression is the total opposite. So let's get into actually what you're doing in this game. Yeah. The whole mechanic of the game is you collect your herd of herdlings or whatever.

Calicorns, they're called, and they're amazing. I love these guys. And at first, it's about the pleasure of just take them through a, space take them through a city take them through a field take them through a forest there's even like a DMV style like there's cones up and you're trying to just like bury them between like you're trying to get your calicorn license yeah uh and then as the game proceeds it gets a little a little tougher because you have more creatures and suddenly it's like oh you have to take sharp turns so you have to know how to stop your herd and then adjust and then move them and uh oh now there are

spiky objects and they can actually hurt your herd and you need to avoid those or you need to make sure they're not falling off of things and it becomes a slower game as you as you go through it where like sort of the sea is take pleasure in movement take pleasure in speed take pleasure and moving through this beautiful space this is i don't know it is it's rigid in a way that i i it's very much the opposite of sortnessy. Yeah, I think it, I mean, there are moments in this game when you've gone through like a particularly tight, narrow passageway or obstacles or what have you,

where it opens up and you get like five to ten minutes of like, we're going to sprint through this field as fast as we can. And the music kicks up and you get a nice vista and it's like kind of a breath of fresh air thing. But the actual core gameplay predominantly is like how might I get these like nine fucking oxen through this very dangerous scenario without having any of them beef it? You do that mostly through staying behind them and using your staff to kind of shepherd them.

So when you are behind them and, you know, using your shepherding power, they go, you know, away from you. And you can tell them to slow down and stop and sometimes charge to go faster. but it's it is very much a shepherding simulator in that like you're not in there with them moving sort of single-mindedly you're not like calling them to you where you it's it's very much like i mean it is it's hurting i mean i'm hurting a pack of i said it was like babe last week and people probably thought i was being fucking crazy but that's what i meant is it feels like you're you know controlling the sheep in babe it's very forgiving in that it's not i was genuinely worried it was going to be like that horrible minigame from twilight princess that you like start out and you have to just like go around a big field and like oh fuck that one wandered off to the left

I'm gonna oh no I went to get him four other ones wondered it it's not it is not that annoying the only timer it gets precarious is when it's like okay you gotta go through this like patch of brambles

and if you touch one the world's worst owl is going to come and kill you that is where the wheels kind of fell off a bit for me and I get that it's going for a different tone one that gets a little bit you know stressful or uh not scary necessarily but more more intense than a lot of games in this

genre typically go for but it uh i don't know man i just want to chill with my with my roadhogs and trot them out you know whoops how'd you feel about a juice on this one yeah um yeah it's it's pretty boring like it's really boring like To play it is incredibly boring. I didn't have any fun the whole time. No pleasure was found here. It's incredibly boring. Playing it, experiencing it is really boring.

It's very pretty to look at. Having to live through it, I found excruciating. When I started it, I felt like we were in a sort of tutorial sequence where maybe I was learning about how to interact with this world. Yeah. And then the game would begin where, not, it's not, it's not, the thing that I'm saying is dull is that there is almost no concession made for me as a player. I am an encumbrance to this, this whole thing. And it's really, it suffers in contrast, I think, to sort of the sea, which is so much about empowering you

and the freedom of movement and the joy, so that's not this game's fault, but like, uh, it was just so unpleasant to experience. I, and I, and I thought it was, a tutorial like a training thing and then the mechanics would get out of the way and we'd be like I'd be able to connect with it more because I wouldn't be so in my head about all the different like but it never does that

it's just you do exactly what it wants you to and then and if you get off that path God help you because sometimes a lot of the woods look like a lot of the other woods and you realize you've been going the wrong way for 10 minutes and that is a real kick in the nats but yeah yeah man I just found

the whole thing so boring And that is how I felt. I think when I was playing it, and I felt honestly not far off from how Justin felt, when I was playing it and when I was going through the tutorial, I was like, and this is a genuine reaction. Like, this is a really neat interaction. Like, I've never seen this in a game before where it's like you're standing behind and it feels like that, I guess in Twilight Princess, there was a fucking minigame. Good work, Griffin. But for me. A bad one.

One of the worst Zelda minigames of all times. But I don't remember having this sort of interaction. where the camera pulls back and you really do feel like you have very direct control over these creatures. And I was like, this is a really neat idea.

I'm very interested to see where they take this idea and like add gameplay levers to it to spice it up in interesting ways in the way that like games like Holo Night start with a very basic core input mechanic and then they evolve that mechanic in interesting ways.

And it doesn't feel, and I'm several hours into it at this point, it does not feel that they knew where to go after coming up with the idea. Like, they white-box the idea of, I want to control these creatures, and here's how it's going to work when I'm controlling them.

And then beyond the art design of the world, which does look beautiful, and the music is very good music. I like the music. It's lovely. But the actual interactions in the game, they didn't know what else to do beyond this is what you're doing

with these creatures. It's a shame, too, because they do nail another thing, which is that as you add more of these calicorns to your pack, they all have kind of different personalities, which is like genuinely a very neat idea for a shepherding game is like, I had one name Giuseppe and Giuseppe was just always,

he always needed validation from me. The others would be trotting along and he'd turn back around and be like, hey, I'm dirty and does that mean you don't love me anymore? And it's like, Giuseppe, fucking chill, dude. We're going to, like, that's hard. That's hard to nail, especially for a, you know, a tell. guy like me who doesn't really care about virtual or most

real life animals but yeah I felt the exact same way I would find a new thing a new mechanic a new type of puzzle a new calicorn to join my herd and I'd be like this is where it this is where it gets going and I don't know I don't really

think it does there's a certain type of listener who is going to really enjoy this game and is the person who loves that feeling you used to get playing Eco or Shadow of the Colossus or those PS2 games where you are a silent protagonist and the story comes from the environment and it's somewhat of like this dystopic apocalyptic setting and then you go on your journey and at the end you have a big emotional swell of music and I want to

say that like maybe that will be you listener who is hearing this. The problem for me and to go to but everything y'all said is I think we try to meet a game on what did it set out to do and did it do that well and for me it fails to do a lot of the things that I think it's clearly setting out to do Griffin mentioned that you know you get the hurdling and maybe one or two you connect with they have you name these characters you're supposed to clearly care about all these the problem is you're getting a new one every like 15 minutes. And they all look kind of the same, kind of different, maybe they're different sizes. And I had forgotten their names, I mean, basically right away, you know, by the two or three

hour mark, I have, you know, eight or nine or ten of these or whatever. Yeah, I had like a loose family structure in my head at first. I, you know, at first it was like, oh, I got like a parent one and like a couple kid ones. And it was like, by the end of it, it's like fucking full house. Like, I don't know. I got a, I got a Jesse's weird grandma that comes over for three episodes. that I forgot her name. Yeah, and then as an environmental storytelling game, there's just not that much story, especially for the first two or three hours.

I mean, and again, if I am being generous and I'm trying to like read into it, the story is especially overly familiar, which is like, you start in a city, and then you get out into nature, and nature is beautiful, but nature is also dangerous. It's like, yeah, I've seen children's movies of the 1980s. It's fun enough,

The herding mechanic is better than it has any right to be. It is truly one of my least enjoyable mechanics in video games shepherding around AI characters, let alone many of them. And it makes it fun-ish, though it does feel more like shepherding AI than it does shepherding creatures that you care about. But, yeah, it is really weird. The Stampede mechanic is one that I feel like for me is really emblematic of a lot of this stuff. like at hour or so in you get this ability to like

you run through colorful flowers or feed your calicorns and they will have the ability to like run quickly they call it stampeding right and there's a bar at the bottom that is represented by each of your calicorns and it seems like you can maybe dash or stampede more times in sequences you collect more of them and it's so strange because first of all

when you get the stampede ability and you feel like things are about to open up to me the fact that you cannot do it all the time and mechanically you would not want to do it most of the time because it's about avoiding danger but it does feel like this concession that it doesn't feel good normally like it usually does not feel good to play

you do need to speed it up to make it pleasant like you would want to experience it at this speed right and that's not a mechanical thing that's a getting around the world thing I want to like that to be part of the game because the game part is at a snail's pace and it is dull. That is so helpful for making that comparison with Sword of the Sea and where I wonder almost like, is this just really brutal timing for us, especially for this game? Because this is a game about it being uncomfortable, about it being frustrating to herd these things around that don't want to go wherever you want them. and then yes every once in a while you come across that big open space and suddenly it's a breath of fresh air and in the tension gets to be released but then you go back to the game which is frustrating managing a whole bunch of like ox children versus sort of the sea which is the opposite which is it's always fresh air there's always you know some thing to zip around the music is always swelling and then maybe you have a few

seconds here and there where you're squeezing through a crevice to get through the next level. The ratios are the complete opposite. And I will say, like, even sort of the sea actually mimics some of this pacing, but the baseline is so much more exciting than the baseline of this game. But there are moments in sort of the sea where, like, you jump on the fucking dolphin and have this like dolphin moment. And that's what they're trying to do, at least my interpretation of it, that's what they're trying to do with those stampede moments where, again, it's like a breath of fresh air.

it just doesn't have that impact. I also think part of the challenge is we talked previously about how many calicorns you get. And you really do, like, I think if you're collecting all of them over a dozen at one point, like it is an astonishing number of fucking calicorns that are falling around. And I think the reason for that is they wanted tension because they wanted you to name the calicorns and care about them because some of them can die. some of them can fall off cliffs or get eaten by an owl or whatever the fuck bad things can happen so you should be sad so they couldn't only have two or three which is when when there's companions and it means a lot to you like the horse in shadow colossus it's because there's one horse or even like if there were three companions it's like you remember those three companions when you're talking about a dozen it's so many that even if one died look i was bummed when one died i wasn't thrilled about it But I wasn't, it wasn't a memorable experience to me because there's so many other fucking ones running around here.

And honestly, that one kind of deserved it a little bit. He was a bit of an asshole. So I just, I just, man. Okay. If it's not about the story, and it's not, because there's very little, like, story being communicated here, aesthetically taking it in is like, is really nice. It looks nice and it's, it sounds nice. But you're experiencing it at a speed where those charms.

arms wear off before that and what you're really left with is the experience right it's the experience of doing it and i think that that's what's powerful about video games is that they can use experience to communicate like we were talking about last week was sort of the sea like using experience to communicate narrative without words and i feel like if you look at the experience that they set out to create here i i don't need to experience this? Like, I don't need to feel the feeling that is being, that this game is trying to get across to me. I feel this all the time, man. You know, like, I genuinely, it feels like I have the, that game, like, sort of the sea, especially, like, right now where I'm at, the idea of, like,

having this experience that is, like, escapist and taking you somewhere fun and letting you do something fun, that is something that I was, like, hungry for and needed and found, like, so bracing. I don't know. who is not getting enough of this sensation in their day to day life that they need to virtually double down on it. And I'll put just a light tweak on that

for me is I don't mind a game or a movie or a book that is challenging and doesn't make me feel good. He loves it, guys. This guy loves it. That's his whole shit. But it needs to serve something. And like, it

can't just be that. Like, it's for what, right? like for what and this the juice wasn't quite worse to squeeze um also the game's like four hours um so that's the other thing get them like

no that's a good that's a good thing quite honestly I'm not because I didn't care for the game but like I'd rather short games that leave an impact like sort of the seas is a short game yeah man these guys are going to hate Sword of the Sea so fucking much

people are going to bring up Sword the Sea in 10 years and be like no actually fuck that game for real it's wild I have not played a game like this in such a long time and then I played two two in a row for DeBestis

so it's this is I think it's super clarifying though I'm really kind of happy right because for me I think experiential games got a bad rap when it was all indie developers wanted to make like 10 years ago

and I feel like these two are a really good example of how you can make a bad one of these and you can make a good one of these. Yeah I mean, that's true of any genre, but it is wild. It is wild that it all kind of came together so quickly here. Can we do, can we talk about something else? You bet.

Hey, I wanted to tell you guys about experience that I just finished, that I thought was really interesting as a jumping off point for discussion. Because I feel like this is a place where gaming could expand and is on the verge of expanding. And we're close. But anyway, you know, I've been messing around with, like, some of these retro handels and stuff. Yes. And building some of these to serve as, like, museum pieces or collections or stuff. And I think that that's fascinating to do.

But there is this, like, problem with iteration in the space. And there's a problem with iteration in the mainstream consoles, too, right? Where we're getting a console. And then they're wanting an upgrade to that console. Well, let me tell you what I just did with my Prusa Mark 4. What is that? Prusa Mark 4. a 3D printer. It's one of the 3D printers that Prusa, it's a company, a very well-regarded 3D printing

company sells. They'll sell you a Prusa Mark 4, and that's a kind of an older model. And recently, Prusa started selling the, not recently, it's actually been like a year or so ago, but anyway, Prusa started selling the Mark 4S, right? And I don't need to tell you guys, you've been in the game long enough to know. That's good. That's better than the Mark 4. It's better than Mark 4. This one's amazing. With the Xbox Series S, that's the worst one. So, So, yes, that part is confusing. But think about more like S rank. Got it.

Sure. So what is really cool is, if you have a Mark 4, like I did, the Mark 4S comes out, Prusa will sell you a $100 kit to upgrade your Mark 4 to a Mark 4S. What's cool is... It's just like a sticker that says S on it. It comes with a sticker that says... It comes with a new serial... No, no, no, Russ.

You lie. You joke. It comes with a lot of the proofs of Mark 4 and a lot of the proofs of printers in general are 3D printed. So a lot of it is... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The printers are 3D printed? Yeah, Russ. The printers are 3D4. Oh, my God.

It's the free... But what was the first one? Think about it this way. Think about it this way. If something breaks, you can make another one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's amazing, right? So they sent me these parts. I take the parts from the old machine and I throw them in the garbage. And then they send a new... No. In my filament recycling bin, actually. So this new kit comes with a new fan and a new hot end and a new, basically a lot of a new belt, a new belt for the printer.

It doesn't matter the parts. The thing is, I had to take apart the Wi-Fi, I had to take apart the networking, I had to take apart the belt, I had to take apart the hot end and take off the fan to put on a new fan. In the process of doing this, when I bought this printer, you could buy it assembled or as a kit. I bought it assembled because I didn't know what I was doing. In the process of doing this upgrade, now I have the upgraded Mark 4S. It even has like my serial number has been taken off. I've updated the firmware. It is no different from Mark 4S at this point. I've upgraded my

own thing. I've learned so much about this. Like, understand this thing so much better than I did when I started. It took six hours. It was a gigantic pain in the ass. I mean, unfathable. But it was a joy to do because the instructions that this company gives you are fantastic. They have videos. They have individual like blown up sections to show you exactly color coded what is going where. My favorite, it comes to the pack of gummy bears. And they tell you exactly. They tell you how many, it's a Haribo pack, right? I tell you how many gummy bears are in there. And then as you're going through the instruction manual, they tell you how many gummy bears you can eat at the end of each section as your reward.

And they're like, don't fool around with this. Don't kid around. Like, you have to do it perfect. And y'all, I got to tell you, the best fucking gummy bear I ever ate is when I finally got that fucking LCD in place. And I finally got it screwed in. I was like feeling like such an idiot. And then I got that beautiful gummy bear and started chewing it.

I felt like an absolute superhero. I want to do this in video games. And I feel like what is hard is this hobby, video games writ large, should have been a cool space for like makers and hackers and it has been but it's never been like an encouraged thing like an other way pc gaming is really the only space yeah absolutely right yeah absolutely and that is different like obviously like pc gaming is its own is its own thing right but this idea of we still have a lot of consoles that are still the best way of playing these old consoles like we need people

I think in order to like keep gaming history preserved I think we need more people that are fluent in at least the basics of this stuff you know what I mean like how to the replace a battery things like that ejector on an NES cartridge thing broke

the battery in like old cartridges is one that we're like they just stop working like it's a it's a kind of like basic skill set that we I feel like gaming makes it really hard to start getting into those mods without it. There's not an easy fun way to like hobbyist into it until you're like whipping solder

around in the guts of your console, you know? Yeah, I agree. I think we're like somewhere weirdly in the middle, which is you can go and find so many different versions of Dreamcast uprisers and various connectors and tweakers and of ways to put SD mini into your dreamcast, mini SD. But you're right, there isn't the, there's no pleasure in it. It's mostly people being like, well, Sega's not going to do it. And we need to get by.

This is the difference, Chris, that I want to highlight here. This is Prusa doing it. Yeah, well, that's what I mean is that's why I mean by the stuck in the middle. It's not full soldering anymore. There are people who are creating slightly easier ways of doing it, but they're still having to step in and fill in on Sega's behalf. And that means that you don't get the, like, pleasure, you don't get that level of detail, you don't get the ease that the actual company could do. In your case, Prusa, you know, is taken out upon itself. Yeah.

I think that there could be a space, like, and I will say this. Also, I've mentioned the retro hand-hill thing. There is not, I do not know of, with the notable exception of Retroid has just released their like dual screen add-on for the Retroid Pocket 5 and several other, you know, handhelds that have a similar form factor. But that's more of like an add-on, like not exactly an upgrade in the way that I'm thinking, like it doesn't take one to the next. But I think the speed at which you're starting to see some of these like independent consoles get released and iterated on, I think you could start to see a sort of. of like a company that fills in that middle ground between hobbyist and Microsoft Nintendo, you know, Sony. Yeah.

Yeah. I think you're starting to also. You're also seeing it. And again, this is fan base, but I think companies are kind of picking up on it, like, whether it's changing the guts or even just like, hey, I'm going to design a CAD file for a grip for these specific handhelds. I think not only shows that like, hey, there's a demand for that, but also shows the company. is like, hey, maybe you should be offering these sorts of, like, aftermarket add-ons for people

that actually want them. So, yeah, I agree with plan. I think it is kind of in this middle ground. It's hard for me to imagine, like, an Xbox, like, selling you the parts to turn your Xbox into an Xbox to whatever the fuck they're going to do next. Yes. You say that, but they talked about doing that for a long time of doing modular systems where you could upgrade with some regularity.

But it never really took off, right? They would sell those hard drives for, like, way more than market value, and it just wouldn't necessarily work. I think it's really compelling, but, again, the second you make it, like, very modular to the point where it only works on this device ever, I think that's where it gets very expensive and kind of seals off the market a little bit. Do you feel like analog is doing a version of this? Well, no, because there's shit's way more boutique and, I don't know how to describe it, but I mean, they're pretty intense about like, you know, this is not a emulator first thing. It's all whatever it is, FGLP, kind of. FGA, FGA, FGA.

Yeah, I thought there was an L in there, but I guess not. And there's a place for that, too, obviously, like, I think those devices rule. but it's like almost the opposite sort of thing. There's an ethos, I think, that I would love to see that is at play here. And part of it is definitely the 3D printing is open source in a way that I find kind of like moving a little bit. It's like genuinely like a really open thing. And I find that like you find people iterating on stuff so quickly that having like that is an open platform and an open way of iterating on that stuff. And Prusa has really, like, embraced that, like, that sort of, like, open source idea.

And I think that that, and there's a ton of care there for customers, too, like, the idea that, like, you would care about people enough that you would want to give them an upgrade path. They didn't have to buy the newest thing, you know, and they could spend $100 and just upgrade it. I'm going to guess this is not a publicly trading company. I am going to assume you're probably right. I'll tell you this. Two weeks before I got this thing, and part of what made me want to get it, I had a. problem that was my fault with a nozzle and I was

contacting them about it and they said you know you've never asked us for any sorts of replacements or anything so let's send you a whole hot end replacement rather than just the nozzle and that'll be a lot easier for you to replace and you know those wear down eventually like they sent more than I asked them to for my warranty replacement that's awesome

very interesting do we have a reader we have yeah we have a few letters from the readers this one comes from Bethany The sunshine disrespect This is in reference to my dragging Super Mario Sunshine The sunshine disrespect

From my favorite video game Podcasters hurts my soul I know it's not the most popular Mario But still to this day It's my favorite Mario game Flaws in awe And I'm still hoping out For a sequel one day

I do want to comment on this You can like a Super Mario game But it can't make it your favorite Your Sunshine can't be your favorite Okay come on Have you played the other one? ones, though. Come to the Odyssey.

Like, listen to that, you know? Do do, do, do, do, do. Even nostalgia, I'd give you, I'd give you nostalgia. But not, that flood? Look, look, look. Spin Doctors, when I was a 12-year-old, was all happening, and even today, I still listen to the Spin Doctors. I like their live album.

I like that Pocketful of Kryptonite album. I'm sure they've done other music that I've never listened to you. gave some good advice for when people love something that maybe we don't love can't be wrong. Russ? Willemus can't be wrong. Would you say would you say that your favorite band is the Spin Doctors? Not publicly.

I do want to say this about Mario Sunshine. It kills me that I don't care for this game because I love the theming, the like Paradise Theaming. I think it looks visually great. It introduces one of my favorite Mario characters of all time baby Bowser, sorry, Bowser Jr.

And so it genuinely kills me. And it has a lot of the same problems that Mario 64 does, which is, a lot of it is just you fighting the camera. The problem is it's way more fighting the camera when you're fucking launching yourself in the air with a jetpack. Yeah. So those are my issues. I'm glad people love it. I think there are people that were raised with this as their first 3D Mario game, so I kind of get it. But yeah, it's really super de-duper, not for me, unfortunately.

Kidding aside, if you're the sort of person that likes to do this sort of thing, there is a mod called Super Mario Sunburn that make, so this is, I'm reading this list because there's a lot. Yeah. Essentially, it makes Super Mario Sunshine play more like 64. There's a toggleable options menu. It's open world, so you can free travel stage to stage. You can do multiple missions at once and collect shines out of order. Shines don't always kick you out of levels. There's an auto save. 100 coin missions possible on every mission. It's sense of collection engine and bug fixes an actual reward for getting all 120 shines. It's like an overall, many, many years in development. If you're the sort of person that is inclined to do this sort of thing, I think sunburn is well we're checking out. It's extremely cool. Sunshine's cool, too. I was getting a hard time.

But sunburn is really neat. That sounds awesome. Yeah. Look it up. And it is frequently updated. The 2.0 update came out two months ago. So sunburn is still very active. okay we have another complaint and this was not the only person mentioning it but

Caleb mentioned it specifically people people didn't care for the disrespect on the Lego game specifically I found I've completely justified myself to the last person and I'm happy to do it here I do have a question though Justin have you played like a recent ish one how would I know I came out in the last I don't know five years how could I know I mean How would I know? How would I know? My point is if I put Lego, if I put Lego into any console or storefront, the thing just fucking explodes. That's true.

The whole thing just melts down. That's true. How do I know what if I played a new one? What I would say is I think they are games in the way they were in games. I agree they are games. On this, we are United. My, my favorite thing with the Lego games right now is the ones that are trying to do something different. And I think that there are more and more of those happening.

I think Horizon Adventures, you know, that sort of stuff. And I will say the Skywalker Saga, I enjoyed that one. It was nice. That was really good. I really liked that one. I've just been burned so many times. I've tried to play so many of these games with Henry, and absolutely none of them have really stuck.

So for me, it's a kind of personal vendetta. I don't have anything against the games. Justin does, but that's okay. Listen, I don't have anything. all of Lego-Ninjago movie video game and he's never recovered anyone would have that reaction

that's all that was his Bain origin story Okay we have one more letter This comes from Does this person want to fucking get their nose bloodied about Beetle bat It says hey y'all

You should check out Chebby Robo It recently got added to the GameCube Classics collection My favorite game of all time And I'm glad people finally can play it. For those who are you turned off by it looking too much like a cozy game, let me assure you it's much more like an adventure game. I have never played Cheeby Robo, and I basically know nothing about it.

I played the 3DS one quite a bit. It's not the one with the mouse and the cats and the running a line. No, it's the little metal guy and he has a power cable attached to him that he carries around and you can plug it in this stuff. You were thinking of Choochoo Rocket. You were thinking of Choochoo Rocket. This is Chibi Robo. Plug it to Adventure. It's a great game. I have not played it since, you know, it came out first on GameCube.

I would love to return to it. He helps a family, and he's a cute little robot guy. He's great. Oh, it's like one of those games where it's set in a big house, and each level is like a different room. Everything is big around you, and you are a tiny little guy pie. Yeah. I love those games.

I have a recommendation for our listener. There is another Cheeby Robo game that you have probably never played. are a number of them. There's a photo one. There's a DS one. There's a second DS one that never came out in the U.S. Okairi, Chibi-Robo, happy Richie Osogi.

And it's more Chibi-Robo. So if you have ever been just saying, I got to get more Chibi-Robo, you should check it out. Weirdly, got pretty good reviews. I'm looking at the Fimitsu score, 34 out of 40.

Solid. Why is that weird? Why is that It's weird, Chris. It's weird. Well, it's weird because its sales did not reflect that. It sold like 130,000 units, which is not enough to get more games made. But yeah, it's such a good series. In just one of the cutest character designs that there is. That's great. I'm glad Cheeby Robo is getting some respect. Please spell the name of whatever that was. Is there an English translation? Because I don't speak Japanese. Is there an English translation? There's always an English translation on the Internet. There appears to be one. I'm not sure if it is actually successful or not, but the translation looks like it came out in 2016. And I will include all of this on the newsletter.

Thank you. Honorable mentions time. I have an honorable mention I wanted to call out. Please. It is very well timed. because when this episode goes up, we will be, it'll be like four-ish, five-ish days before the launch of Hollow Night Silk Song,

a video game that, in theory, is happening on September 4th. If you have played Hollow Night before, chances are you beat the game and didn't know what the fuck the story was about, but you still had a great time like me. And if that's the case, I'm going to throw in a link or Plant's going to drop this link into the newsletter

to a video that explains the point, plot of Hollow Night to normal human beings. It's a fun, it's a little, a little meamy from like mid-2018 era. So just be aware there might be some references that feel a little dated. But broadly speaking, it's a very good explanation for what the hell is going on in that game from a plot standpoint. And given the fact that there are continuing characters, specifically Hornet, is in both games. You might want to know what the fuck the deal is with Hornet.

Yeah. So it's a great video. it's about an hour and 15 minutes long, buckle up. Can we talk about Silk Song? Because when we recorded last time, we were very transparent. The Gamescom show had just happened. Keeley had gotten on stage and said,

here's some news about Silk Song. It's coming out this year. And then two days later, Team Cherry did their own announcement where they said, it's coming out September. It's coming out in two weeks. No one has wedged Jeff Keely more than Team Cherry.

What could have possibly happened behind the scenes there where he could be so thoroughly, I don't want to say cuckolded by, like, announcement, it's tasteful. It's just tasteful to say that, but it feels accurate. So, like, I'm trying to find a better way of saying. Accurate, yet, this tasteful. It's just wild to me for him to get this announcement

and show off this gameplay footage. And then two days later, Team Cherry's like, yeah, two weeks, y'all, see you there. It's real, it's happening. It's just wild. I'm so excited. Couldn't be more excited. I'm so excited.

I've been on total black. I didn't watch the announcement trailer. I haven't watched any gameplay. Every time it pops up in my YouTube, I close my eyes and run away. I'm going in as we know. So you have not seen Miss Hollow Night. I mean, in a way, not wrong

because Hornet, I know, is the protagonist. But yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty part of time. It's a shame you can only get married once. What a loss. Yeah, fuck I am worried And I've spoken to a few people about this That the discourse is going to turn on this game

And like a bad way When the game comes out As is all things that people are really excited about But maybe I'll be wrong And people would just be real I mean it'll go quick I think I think it'll be like Oh this is the best

Oh this is actually the worst Actually it's nothing And then I did hear That it does have weapon durability in this game. I hope that's not an issue for people. As weapon or ability? That was a joke. Oh, no, Jesus. You can't do that to me.

What else is going on? I've been reading a book. It's called A Drop of Corruption. It is the second in the I forget the name of the trilogy. It is a fantasy murder mystery.

I'm finally going to read that book. You keep Keep saying that, man. No, I'm like, like, I say that, I mean it. Here's how you know I mean it. I'm going to do it while we're just doing the show. Oh, okay, good. That's how you know I'm serious. It's the sequel to the Tainted Cup, which I brought a couple months back, which I finished.

Oh, wait. I remember why I never get it, because I hear the name and I think it doesn't sound very good. Oh, no. It's fucking rad. And this one is also really great. I'm nearly done with it, and it's just another great, great mystery in a world of magic plants and kaiju. Uh, it's, it's just really great.

Some of the best things he ever read. Is that the same author of City of Stairs? It is. Robert Jackson Bennett. But a different, is that a different. Different saga. Different, different. Yeah, he's got, he's whipped up quite a few of these.

Is it a connected? Does he do a connected thing? Is it like a, a Cosmere? Not in the Cosmere way. No, not in any way that at least I have, I've read a few of his sort of, um, uh, trilogies and I haven't noticed much connective tissue. That's not to say that it's not there. Are the Kaiju fucking?

Is it one of those books? No, they're being harvested for their blood, which gives people superpowers, basically. That sounds like a kink. Yeah, I guess. I guess if you want it to be. Also, this season of American Ninja Warrior just wrapped up, and I just want to give them their flowers. Fucking great, great season. They adopted a tournament-style all-racing structure that was just absolutely thrilling,

watching some of my favorite old dogs up against the young guns. What does that mean all-racing structure? so historically in the past it's been a like you qualify you go to city finals and then there's stage one and stage two but it's like get through this course in this amount of time or get through this course without failing or whatever and now once you qualify it's just races nonstop and if you lose you're knocked out and then they take that to the final victor and i don't know that shows still corny as hell most of the time but it's pretty exciting watching people be extraordinarily good at going through obstacles. Rachel and I, we don't talk about it a lot because I think there's an understandable amount of shame for being into this particular television program. Justin's nodding in agreement. I was looking at something on the ground.

Oh, repeatedly. I was looking at something on the ground repeatedly. Over and over and over again. But yeah, it's a show about people who are extraordinarily enthusiastic about this one thing that will not be applicable in any other part of their lives. So there's always a lot on the line. But it has gone on long enough that it does seem like a more applicable skill, right? It feels like if a show's on long enough that it is like, I don't know, he's good at Survivor.

That's the one thing you can say about him. They've also in recent years reduced the, like, age requirement to go on the show. So there's a lot of just like, you know, 14-year-olds who's, you know, muscle to weight ratio is so fucked up and insane. and they are they smash the course and they're going up against these 40 year old veterans who are just like trying to try to stay for one more round just so they don't have to go and parent parent their kids tonight uh it's it's really genuinely uh it was a thrilling season and uh i still don't i wouldn't talk about it publicly but i felt like this is a safe space it is it is justin's not making it feel very safe but justin knows justin knows how nasty

I get with this shit. He knows I'm a dirty dirty dog. Justin, you got anything? Been riding a bike. Like a bike that moves around? Yeah, riding a bike around. That's fun. That sounds pretty nice. I've seen a road hog over here. It's a cool bike. Cool bike. Yeah, it's like, cool. I'm running around. It's not a

deal. Is there anything else? No. Jumps? No. No jumps? I mainly, I don't play video games so much. It's like I move them around. You know? I move them from one device onto another device. You don't ask a librarian

if they read books, you know what I mean? I don't read a book. I mean, you don't want to read books. Remember when we asked Good Russ whether he enjoys playing video games? Oh, no. No, you asked him if he enjoyed not enjoy to play video games.

He likes to play video games. It was enjoyed what he does. Oh, yeah. It was even more weirdly personal than that. That is a really, that time we have a good, that was a trigger moment for me. that episode, where it was like, after that episode, I went, like, absolutely mad. Yeah, that was the retro game for.

I've heard that man talk more than I've heard my own father speak to me in the last few years. Like, he is so important to me. I'm terrified if we get good Russ back on the show. I will pepper him with so many, like, minuscule questions. Like, so what is CD TV emulation? Why can't he ever catch up, dude? I'm so unplugged from social media. I do not know what the response is to how much we talk about this stuff.

It's just a really fucking interesting time for this space genuinely with the speed that things are evolving and new shit is coming out and new forms of emulation and new hardware are just like dropping every single week. And it truly is like, I don't know, a really exciting time to be kind of like part of that hobby. And it's really as these devices, what is really neat is like as these devices are released and like improved. and the technology gets better it's like better ways of experiencing certain libraries so there's certain games certain form factors that are like a

better experience overall because it's like emulating the closer to the size of the screen so you're not destroying the pixels so much or like the controls are more closely emulated and as I have more of these libraries set up on devices that are really a fit for them these libraries feel alive

to me in a way that they do not normally feel like I the library I've done so much of this like the library of Sega CD in my head the library of the Turbographic 16 I can kind of imagine

this shape and the scope of it like if I saw 10 games on that list I could tell you probably what libraries they are I know that three ninjas kick back is the first video game in the S&ES library alphabetically I've probably played that game

more than any other SDS game because it is like just the one my thumb hits that run and ah real monsters yeah And of course in the arcade world You can't be the 1941 franchise Because there's like eight of those There's no way you're gonna click through all those

I will say not to tackle on But I will say Justin's newest approach Which I think is a very interesting approach When you get one of these handhelds I think the default setting And certainly my setting is I'm gonna throw on as many games as I can On this individual device

And make it all work Just so I have it with me Justin has been taking individual devices And kind of dedicating them to a given platform or creator or maker. So like you have like a Sega specific handheld that just has Sega. I got this

retrooid pocket classic that is a six button model. So it looks very much like the second Genesis controller or the the Saturn controller. And it feels great. It's got like shoulder buttons on the back and it's more buttons than you need for these like old systems so you can map stuff like

quick load, quick save, shaders and things like that to like really emulate the experience. But it's really cool, like, historically, to see, uh, and, and, and, uh, all of these, like, laid into end, kind of see the progression throughout and, like, see what the history would have looked like from that perspective. And it's also, like, when I'm able to emulate a console and have an, an, an experience is like pretty close to what you might have had back then, like, we didn't have, uh, a mega, uh, a Sega mega, uh, sorry, master system, um, we didn't have,

like, we missed a generation of Atari. didn't have a Saturn. So it's like some of these libraries like I'm checking out for the first time and in a way where it doesn't feel like I've sort of like completely botched the experience. Something like where I can kind of get the idea.

That's been really cool. I think we did it. The point, you want to recap the games we talked about? Oh my gosh. We talked about so much stuff this week. We talked about hurling and then we talked about Okyri, Chibi Robo, Happy Richie Osogi. We talked about... What's the transition of that?

O'Cari is like returning home Chibi Robo I think Happy Richie Osogi is probably a character's names

like like welcome home Chibi Robo happy Richie Osoji So good Well A Hollow Night

Silk Song We talked about the book A Drop of Corruption We talked so much about all sorts of different emulator handhelds Next week

We'll be talking about Metal Gear Solid 3 Delta and new Kirby, new Kirby DLC. Not Kirby Air Ride, don't worry, that's going to be later this year. But there is a new update and expansion to our beloved Kirby game for the Nintendo Switch, just in time for the Nintendo Switch 2. So we'll be chatting about- Not just in time, a couple months late, pretty notably late.

Launch window. Some of us may have made certain promises to our children on the Switch 2 launch date, not realizing that the Kirby deal... We should also point out that they are not... Team Cherry is not distributing code for Silk Song early, which is why we're not doing that next time.

I'm a little bit thrilled, quite honestly. Week after. I'm fine with it. It's fine. We're going to play it alongside you guys, which is to say, yeah, we will not be talking about it at all on next week's episode.

It will be, I think, out for a day when that comes out. Yeah. So, join us for a week after. One real last quick thing. Thank you to our Patreon members over at patreon.com slash the besties. We have Brittany, we have Gabe G, we have Johnny Dean, and we have Expo Stalfa. Thank you for being members of Patreon.

It's great new content coming up, coming at you frequently. I think we have over 50 episodes of bonus content on there. Holy cow, including a new bracket episode, which is dropping the first Tuesday of September. We also have our new Resties out. So tons of stuff going on there at Patreon.com. So that's the besties. That's going to do for us this week on The Besties. Be sure to enjoy seeing it next time on The Besties.

Because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games. Besties.