The Besties - Mario + Hulk + Red Faction = Donkey Kong Bananza

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Donkey Kong Bananza isn't the game we expected Nintendo would create to launch the Switch 2. But we're so glad they made this weird, wonderful, and inverted platformer. Who needs to jump when you can smash? Plus, what other Nintendo series deserve the AAA treatment? Get the full list of games (and other stuff) discussed at www.besties.fan. Want more episodes? Join us at patreon.com/thebesties for three bonus episodes each month!

Chris plant here's the deal. I have a the sides in front of me and Really, we just have one line that we need you to do and hopefully you can take as many tries as you want You don't need to get it perfect the first time through but if you just read this line for us just however you want to deliver it and And we'll go from there. Okay. Oh, banana. Okay.

You don't sound so excited about the banana. I want a little more enthusiasm. Like you just found a banana and you're pretty pumped about it. Oh, banana? Okay, now you're just confused. You don't know what a banana is. You've never seen a banana in your life. Oh, banana? Okay, now you're just confused. You don't know what a banana is.

You've never seen a banana in your life. You love bananas. You're a banana loving creature. So I want to hear that in the delivery. Oh, banana. Okay, that's just I don't know what that is. Can you give me one more try? Yeah, one more try.

Go for it. Oh, banana. Okay, there it is. Can you give me one more try? Yeah, one more try. Go for it. Oh, manana! Okay, there it is. Check the gate. We got it. He's got the job. Congrats Chris Plant. New voice of Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong! Well, no, no, no. We don't... The rap is already taken care of. We don't need anyone for the wrap. Sorry, you know what? I'm sorry for wasting your time. I'll see you soon. I appreciate it. Stephanie, I don't, I'm doing it first. My name is Ross Froschek and I know the best game of the week.

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the week and the best game in a very long time. What a game. Welcome to the besties where the best. Oh, no, that's not how we do it. Welcome to the besties. It's a video game club. And just by listening, you remember they've come a long way since Pacman.

They sure have. And today it's just plant and I. The McElroy boys are dealing with some family stuff and they were unable to join because of some very last-minute scenarios I'm sure we will hear about their opinions on this game on the subsequent episode that we do But for right now we wanted to make sure that you guys heard just an initial Donkey Kong Bonanza episode Chris plant what is Donkey Kong Bonanza?

Donkey Kong Bonanza, it's like that Super Mario Odyssey game that you love so much, except for now you're Donkey Kong and you can break the shit out of everything. In the words of Fred Durst, give me something to break. And we did, Nintendo gave us something to break everything in this video game. I thank Fred, I thank Nintendo, and I thank Donkey Kong. Let's get into it.

Okay, so I played, I mentioned this before, but I played Donkey Kong Bonanza briefly at the Nintendo Switch 2, like the first hands-on preview ever. Bragg. And I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah. I did not think the entire game was gonna be as focused

on the blowing shit up that this game is focused on, but man, they just like commit to the idea that you're Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong loves bananas, the bananas are in the rocks for some reason, and you need to get at them. Yes. The way to think about this game as a platformer or whatever you want to call it in the Mario style is if Mario is about jumping to get to various areas around a platform and kind of fast movement, this is about carving straight through. A lot of the puzzles in this game, a lot of them, are about being able to create paths through the environment.

So that means at the very beginning of a level, you might just say, I wonder what happens if I go straight down. And if you bury, bury, bury, or dig, dig, dig, you will find that there is a banana, which is the equivalent of the gold stars in the Mario games. It's waiting right there for you. So one, it just rewards discovery. But two, you might find that there's a puzzle where there's a tube of steel that cannot be broken by by bashing. Oh, no, what are we going to do? You have to find

other things that can be destroyed to create the path into that that giant, I don't know, destroyed to create the path into that that giant I don't know super protective tube it is right the puzzles of the game are the smashing and the bashing and the boring and the digging not boring but boring bull yes like you are a subway bore yeah it's it's interesting because when you first start out, like the early environments tend to be like, like where is the challenge in this? Because you're really just going through and just like dig, dig, dig. Oh, I see a banana because of my like ability

to sonar my way through the environment. But there isn't a lot that's in your way. And then obviously as time goes on, it seems like the environments get more, a little more level designed, like less just like you can explode this entire level and a little more like, I wouldn't say guided, but just like structurally,

you're not necessarily just like able to dig straight down for 50 meters for no reason. It feels like a game we're going to figure out how smart it is in like a year or two or five. Because it is so unlike anything that I've played. And by that, I mean, you play any big open world platformer game where you need to go and collect stuff, right? There's types of signposting and things, tricks that are guiding your eye on where to

go that once you've played enough of these, you know, the language You actually can see the way it's tricking you to get around. There are times here where I feel like a genius. Like I just happened to have just had this random decision to carve a path and then how could I possibly have known that it would lead to this banana. And I get the sense that they have so many little tricks in their utility belt to guide you through something that seems random and chaotic and happenstance. Yeah, the well, yeah, when I think about signposting, like there are moments where you'll like be running through a grass field. And there's like a circle that doesn't have any grass on it. And chances are if you dig in that spot,

something's going to happen. The other element, every area in the game and these environments are quite huge has like, I don't know, fucking 50 collectibles per area. It's like an astonishing because there's the bananas, which we've talked about. There's fossils that you can collect that unlock different clothing pieces, whatever. There's bigger fossils, and then there's super big fossils, and then there's these randomly appearing chests. So really, whenever you're digging,

it's kind of shocking if you don't find anything for two or three digs, because the environment is so littered with stuff, which again feels incredibly satisfying. They nailed that feeling incredibly well. Yes. The cool thing about the level design for me is it feels chaotic and it feels like you will, the very first time you go into a level, and I should clarify, the way the game works is you are going deeper and deeper into the core of a planet. But really you're just going from like deep one level to the next and these levels are larger and larger spaces that. When you first land in them you will dig and carve and you'll wind up exiting a hillside and not even know how you got

there or where you are. Cause you actually never even explored the surface of the level. And it feels like, well, how do I even know where to go in this space? But the, all of the destruction that you do is persistent, at least when you are in that level. It resets when you leave the level. And that does this, one of many cool magic tricks, it lets you know where you've been and you end up recognizing the scope, the geography of the level based off of the destruction that you've done to it, more than you actually do from the levels design itself. So it's this weird thing where you're kind of like almost creating your own map

through this big amorphous space. It's really trippy. The old version of that was like, very old. Wolfenstein 3D, oh, there's dead Nazis here. Clearly I've been. But this obviously, yeah, much more in depth and you can really, it just saves you the effort of like, oh, I don't need to dig here a ton

because I've really like plumbed the environment as much as I can, which again, when you're trying to get the most out of each and every area, that makes it so much easier. Do you, did you feel lost when you were playing the game at all? I mean, the map is pretty good. There is like a 3D map.

If you ever get lost, you're not sure, for example, like you want to find the store or whatever. There's a 3D map that lets you really just like scrub anywhere you want and set pins. So you can like, oh, I want to find the store. I'm going to set a pin on the store and it'll always appear on your radar. You can also hold down the, I think it's a left bumper,

whatever like causes you to sing. You can like whistle as Donkey Kong and we'll talk about her but Pauline is also in this game and she'll sing and it reveals like if you found any fossil maps, for example, they'll like stay on your radar on the HUD. So that I think really helps in terms of guidance, but there are certainly moments where again, you're underground, you have no fucking idea where you are,

you're just punching like a mad man, mad Donkey Kong, and suddenly you're like, yeah, you pop out and you like fall 50 feet because there's just water in front of you, which feels very Looney Tunes in that way. So I didn't have problems navigating, I would say. What about you? Yeah, I, anytime I felt lost,

it wasn't a bad type of lost. It was kind of the fun of it. It was that overwhelming experience at the beginning of a level where it's like, I don't even know where I'm going. And I am kind of okay with that. We've talked before on maybe on Rusty's about like weed games, or if you don't want to call them that because you live in certain states, podcast games maybe. But games that are, they benefit from a certain degree of zoning out.

And holy moly is that this game for me. Um, last night I was playing in, Mosi and Steffi, uh, had gone to bed and I was like, Oh, you know, I'll get a little bit in before the episode tomorrow. And I had YouTube on on the TV and, uh, that band Korangben came on. Oh yeah. Right. Like a vibey.

Very vibey jam band. Very vibey, very like modern day equivalent of like listening to The Dead or Fish. And I don't know, like two hours passed where I was just zipping through. And I hadn't, like, that was, I was stone cold sober, but the vibe was just there and I was completely entranced by it.

And I don't know. The weird thing about this game is I often don't even know if I'm on quest or missions. I'm just kind of carving through it. I, I, I don't know if I'm like, I don't know if I should be talking to more characters or if I should be like accepting quests or if I, if like my goal in the game is to just kind of destroy,

destroy, destroy until I get to a new area where I can hop down, uh, to the next layer. Um, but it seems to be okay with me doing that. And when I do talk to people, I think that, sorry, just very quickly, that I do want to highlight, which is one of the most brilliant decisions in this game. Everybody's so happy you're there and they're so happy you're breaking stuff, which is really important because I think the vibe and the energy of this game would just feel different if it was like, oh no, Donkey Kong's here.

That comes out, he breaks everything. We're here. There are characters made out of gems and you can like break them in half. And they're like, wow, that was such a cool idea doing that i'm so glad you tried that thank you i'm yeah there is like a yoshi story almost like a beatness to this entire world and everyone is like totally game for it except for like the villains who are obviously like not that. who are obviously like not that, but every other NPC you meet is like, yeah, super thrilled to be there, having a great time, you know, would like to have this problem addressed with Void Kong or whatever he's got going on,

but largely very happy to be there. I do wanna mention though, we've been talking a lot about like the vibey, just exploration, destroying shit parts. There are like, for lack of a better term, like challenge parts or even like puzzle parts where you'll find these warp areas and you'll enter them and they are like very contained

platforming challenges or puzzle challenges that usually have like a few bananas that you find just by like trying to complete the normal path and then like a hidden banana if you like go off the beaten path, the closest analog I could think of would be like in breath of the wild or tears of the kingdom, the shrines. It's like a very similar thing here where it's like just a very focused challenge.

Or like the tapes in Celeste, like the little one-off missions in Celeste. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. Like, yeah. Sure. Yeah, like yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's such a clever Solution for well if you can destroy everything, how do you create any order? How do you control the player? And by having that it's like oh, this is a thing that you've chosen to do you want a more controlled experience They're like in a minute and a half long. Yeah, they're right back into busting shit up Yeah, you mentioned Pauline. Oh

Yeah, can you tell people how Pauline works? Okay, well just a quick history lesson Pauline for those that aren't aware was the woman that was in the original Donkey Kong game So when Mario is climbing up the construction site and talking is up there throwing barrels He's doing it for his love of Pauline. So I haven't finished the game and I haven't looked up spoilers. I imagine it's addressed because Pauline in this game is only 13 years old.

So it is before, theoretically, the events of the Mario game where Pauline and Donkey Kong are I guess older. She's also the mayor of New Donk City in Super Mario Odyssey. Well that's in Mario Odyssey yeah. Yeah. Which we don't want to get too lost in the weeds here. I'm having Jeremy Parrish is coming on post games this week to talk about video game history and we'll have a whole lesson on the chronology, which is a disaster. Um, but her power is she sings is basically.

Yes, she sings. And that's true. That's a good note because obviously in Mario Odyssey, she's very famously singing. She has a big theme song that she sings. Um, so, but here she sings. And if you're playing in co-op, her power is fucking outrageous. Have you played co-op yet? I haven't. I saw a video of it and I was like, I don't know if I'm ready for this.

OK, so in co-op, the main character, the player one plays Donkey Kong, standard controls. But the second player plays as Pauline, who is riding on Donkey Kong's back, like a piggyback situation. And at any given time, the second player, using like a targeting radical on the screen, similar to like Mario, what is it? The space one, Mario Galaxy, very similar to that,

can fire off these shouts that Pauline can do, and the shouts can be different materials. So if you set it to be like grass, she'll like shoot these big grass clumps out, or if you set it to stone or even gold, you'll change what she's like shooting out. And there is no limit to this power. You can use it as much as you want, as often as you want. And it's buck wild, especially when you introduce a small child to the mix.

And let me tell you, my small child who is four, fucking loves this game and loves breaking shit. This is like the first time that he and I have played a new game that he is so jazzed about. Everything before this was like we're playing Animal Crossing, which obviously been out for a while and different games that have been out. This is the first new game and he is like Donkey Kong, Pilled up the wall. And he contributes like I will be running straight as Donkey Kong, and he is firing off bazookas' worth of ground-destructing capabilities.

Now, that doesn't make it easy to climb a hill, let me tell you, because he's just, like, destroying everything around me. But if I'm just looking to clear the map... it's going pretty well. I mean, you can just rubble that entire map in minutes. You really can can very quickly. It's pretty impressive actually.

Yeah, one of the materials for people is basically a bomb explosive material. So you can just truly wreck. Yeah, I haven't tried that one in turn. She can like copy the material if she's like aiming at it and he is not the best at aiming. So it's more just like a scattershot, cluster bomb approach to it. But it's pretty fun to play with a little kid. I wouldn't say you make a lot of progress from working your way through the story,

but all he cares about, and we haven't talked about it yet, is breaking shit with Pauline and character customization, which I am also deeply into. Yeah This is the first game that I can think of where there was like pretty extensive Donkey Kong Customization in it. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's weird. I'm I'm kind of torn on the customization

I love it in that it looks great. Yeah outfits are great and I like the new Donkey Kong design We'll get to that in a second. It's weird in that the clothes that you pick have powers and it's kind of in that, I don't know, Ubisoft Activision EA realm of save X many points to get 10% or 20% or 30% buff to your speed in mud and ice environments, which never really feels exciting to me. But- It's useful. And they're useful perk.

It's not like a 3% improvement to whatever. It'll be like, yeah, you can swim 30% faster or whatever. That's a useful skill, but it is weird to tie it to clothing, especially when it comes to little children, because my boy does not like it when Donkey Kong wears pants. So I'm continually a suboptimal build, because Donkey Kong cannot wear pants.

Wow. Which is, yeah, it probably should have just been like a badge that you equip or something that doesn't have a visual impact on the character, because I would collect pants, just as a matter of course I love that you just said that was such certainty um yeah I I agree you you mentioned not getting much done in this story a cool thing about the destruction though is there's gold everywhere. Yeah.

And gold ends up being the way that they gate you in this game between various things. So as you get deeper into the game, there are even like small little quest that will have a character say, hey, I can unlock that area for 1000 gold, or I can like unlock blank for 500 gold or whatever. So you end up wanting to you're rewarded for the grind a little bit. I haven't even called it grind because it, it's kind of the whole heart and soul of the game. But the game wants you to explore into the story stuff and to really find and discover new things. It seems like it will punish you if you try to just mainline the game. If you try to go from point A to point B. I'm really curious what speed runs of this game will look like because of its gating. I don't know, it could look cool, like how people harvest gold very quickly will be interesting. There is a bit of RNG, I think. Yeah, in terms of what's actually in the ground, I agree. And the treasure chests tend to be,

I think, RNG based as well. So the gold gating that you're talking about is really just like when you reach like certain moments, they'll be like, oh, we actually need 10,000 gold to like open this thing, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Though I think you can still, there are other ways of like progressing the core levels. There are just certain, I've started to come across more things

where they're asking me for gold to keep moving. And I'm curious how much that happens. What's funny is that because of playing co-op with him and him not really wanting to do anything but like dig, gold is like so not a problem. I have so much fucking gold. I'm drowning in it and it constantly respawns and it's everywhere.

And honestly, like even when I see gold, like the urge to break it up is incredible because it feels so good when you do that. So I haven't hit that wall, but I, yeah, it will be interesting to see if people figure out a way to like get enough to get to the next area and the next area. Yeah, yeah.

Any other kind of thoughts on it about, you know, did it feel overpowered for you? I mean, you mentioned that in co-op, and even if it does, like, do you mind? No, I don't care. I mean, it does feel overpowered for you? I mean, you mentioned that in co-op, and even if it does, do you mind? No, I don't care. I mean, it does feel overpowered, but I don't care. I don't think Nintendo cares. I think they just want it to feel good.

You certainly feel very powerful as Donkey Kong, whether you're playing in co-op or not, to the point where a lot of the fights that I've done, like the larger fights, tend to be like, well, fuck that guy up. You can turn into, we haven't talked about it, you can turn into like the equivalent of like super forms of Donkey Kong that have different powers,

but the base, the first one you're getting, is really just, you turn into a giant Donkey Kong, and you're much more powerful than you were previously. Yeah. And so that, you know, activating that in the first third of the game, feels like a cheat code that you know activating that in the first third of the game feels like a cheat code that you're entering because you are just so astonishingly powerful as that Donkey Kong and it you just trivialize

basically any bosses that you come across this seems to be the new model of Nintendo game design of if you want to be ultra powerful and you want to just crush the game beneath you, you can. If you want to give yourself more challenge and come up with like a more creative way to beat something, you can also do that. And it's going to rely on you to make that decision. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, with Don with tears of the kingdom, like, I don't think that's the case. Like, here's the kingdom. I don't. I mean, with Don... With Tears of the Kingdom, like, I don't think that's the case. Like, I think Tears of the Kingdom... I don't... I mean, you... Theoretically, if you, like, look at guides or whatever,

I guess you could... whatever, break it with, like, abusing the systems, like, respawn, zone-ite, whatever the fuck. But I think, broadly speaking, like, for, like, the first 10 hours of that game, you feel pretty weak. I think that's true, but I guess I feel like with Tears of the Kingdom, there are a few contraptions that you can build to solve pretty much every puzzle.

Yeah. Or you can get really creative, like it's up to you. But yes, this is the most, the far end of that spectrum. Again, we haven't talked about the powers. I don't wanna go too much into the powers because I think that is like a spoilery thing that you should discover. But as Donkey Kong gets his Donkey Kong superpowers, you can really bust through this game. I mean, they are the perpetual cheat code and you charge them up up and it's very silly because there's

an option to like make it charge faster. There's all these upgrades you can get. And I have yet to have any reason to do that because I'm just constantly charged up. Um, it feels like I can just live in superhero mode all the time. Uh, yeah, I, I, I really, I really dug it. I look forward to talking about it more once we have the boys back because I'm sure it will be part of the Game of the Year conversation. And I think it'll also be good to talk about what the end game looks like.

We've run into this a few times with like Kirby, where we really, really enjoy the game and then you get to see the real challenging stuff and it becomes a whole separate thing that we love. And I'm curious where that is. I think I'm probably about five or six hours from the end. So yeah, we'll follow up on it. Cool.

Let's take a quick break and then we've got a little more coming at you after the break. Okay we are back and I am so happy that Nintendo gave Donkey Kong another shot. Donkey Kong disrespected. Donkey Kong the original Nintendo icon. He performs one rap on the Nintendo 64 and suddenly he can't get AAA games anymore. I think that's bullshit.

So I'm happy that Donkey Kong is getting his, you know, his return, his moment in time. For what it's worth, I do think, I guess that was the last one, right? That was the last one. Yeah, that was the last one, was N64 Donkey Kong. The rest of them have been like either spin-offs or throwbacks to the Donkey Kong Country style. Those were great, but I would agree that they're not like full on huge, huge titles.

And what I realized is there's a lot of brands that just get in this disrespect. And sure, I understand Nintendo. They know exactly what they're doing. You don't need to tell me this. But also like, why haven't I gotten my Earthbound AAA game? Just saying. So I thought what we could do,

is we can go through a list of the games that are either fully ignored, they haven't been getting anything in a while, or they've been bumped down to the B or the C tier list in Maker. Where they'll have like, oh, here's a card game version of this. That's all. Yeah. Or like 99. You know, those series were like F zero. Oh yeah. You can start with F zero. F zero 99. Congratulations. It's, you know, a novelty that we'll take

off the store once we're done with it. Yeah. once we're done with it. Let's start there. F-Zero. Do you think it has any chance in hell of coming back as a major Nintendo series? Yes, I do. I think the last time that there was like a major F-Zero game was, what, on GameCube? And then there was like an arcade version of that. But I think right now they've got, the only hesitation I have is like, they are a little top heavy on racing games right now,

because they have Mario Kart, they have Kirby's Air Ride is coming. So I wouldn't necessarily see, I wouldn't expect to see an F-Zero game in the next year, but it's like the other big racing franchise for them. And it has the ability, in the same way that, what did we play? That fast fusion, whatever that game was on,

it has the ability to like be a real showpiece for the hardware, because everything is moving so quickly that it wouldn't surprise me. It's also as they've shown with F-Zero 99, like it's great for online play. So it wouldn't totally shock me. I would like to see something more story-based or like character development-based,

but I don't know that maybe that goes in conflict to like what F zero is, which is really just like an arcade racer in the style of wipe out. Or I guess wipe out was in the style of F zero. So I could see it, but it might be a few years. That's the problem for me is I don't know why they make another racing game series when they've made it clear that they will put all the eggs in the Mario Kart basket. Yeah, you know, throughout a console's life cycle and I'm well and Kirby air ride they're making sure that's that's true and still wild to me in the same year. But F zero for me, I would love either a game that is more of a story-based racer game a racing RPG like we used to get a long time ago or

Handed over to an indie studio there is a Time where I felt like Nintendo is doing a bit more of that of trusting, you know Crypt of the Necro dancer developers to make the Zelda game. Is that the only example that I can think of? I could have sworn that there was more. You're right I started to say that I was like you have to do that a few times and now I'm like I think it might be just the one otherwise they'll work with like Namco and things like that. Yeah but it feels like it would be a good partnership you're right and then Namco Bantai. Okay

I'm gonna put what would you put the odds at for that one? I think there's a in the lifespan of the Switch 2. Yeah. I'd say there's a 20% chance of getting an F-Zero game in the lifespan. Yeah. Next one I have is the Earthbound Mother series. Three percent chance. I think you're right. I don't know if we need to say much more for people who don't know. Earthbound was a cult favorite RPG for the Super Nintendo. There was a prequel or a predecessor that was not released in the US. There was a sequel called Mother 3 that was not released in the US. The hardcore fans have been badgering Nintendo for more

Earthbound forever. And not without reason because Earthbound's main characters have appeared in Smash Brothers from the very beginning. Ness is the protagonist of EarthBound, so EarthBound has just always been part of Nintendo IP. But I agree with you in that it almost feels like it's been so long that it's a lose-lose. That it's not a big enough name that it will make you a lot of money and the fan base is so rabid that

The odds of you messing up are really high. So I also don't even know how big that fan base it I know they're they are rabid. I know they're intense But like is is it... Hundreds. Millions. Yeah, it's hundreds of people. Right? That's the problem.

Yeah. Okay, so the next one is... Wait, wait, wait, let me do a caveat. There were how many EarthBound games were there? Three. Three. And didn't the third one never get released in the US? Correct.

I could definitely see the third one getting a port with the translation. My friend, here is where you are wrong. Here's where you are being schooled by a real fan. Okay. There are a few things in it that have not aged well. Oh no. And they will never release it. Okay.

Yeah, so I would not count on that. I think there's a reason that they have been very okay with a fan translation of that game. Sure. That is a compromise. Love that game. But there are some parts that would need work. Okay. 3%.

Great. We're moving along. Here's a weird one. Pokemon. I know what you're saying. Pokemon already has big games out there. What I'm asking is, is this really, is this really the peak? Is this really triple A Pokemon when we see this stuff?

Because I look at these Pokemon games, I need so much shit for this. I love when I say something I'm like, I can already feel the rage. They don't look visually great. Like at all, we can all agree on that, right? Like they kind of look busted. Uh, I would say, I thought, yeah, I would say the most recent one certainly was like, I think incredibly hamstrung by the hardware

to the point where they designed it for hardware, they couldn't run it, and even then it still looked pretty bad. Yeah. It does, I agree, it doesn't look certainly on the tier of something like Donkey Kong Bonanza. No. So it'd be nice to have that level of quality attached to it.

But this one in particular seems unlikely to me that it would ever get that level of polish because they don't need to. These games still sell astonishingly well. And it makes them at a much faster rate. Like a much faster rate. Like a much faster rate. Uh, I also think that like, uh, there was a new trailer for, uh, Pokemon legends, what is it? ZX, whatever it is, X, A, whatever it is, uh, the new one. And it looks fun.

It looks good enough to me. Like it's not, it's not jaw dropping, but it's, it's okay. Good enough is truly the, uh, the Pokemon way when it comes to this. Well, when Good Enough sells astonishing numbers of copies. Yeah, that's- You're right. You're right. Unfortunately.

Okay, so we're gonna put that as NA. We're not gonna give a percentage there. Here's one that definitely could or couldn't happen. I don't know where to go with this. Yoshi. Okay. So Yoshi is interesting because before Kirby got Kirby's big game, I would have said like, why would you ever make another big top tier Yoshi? Because Yoshi is the little kid brand. Yeah. But now I don't know. I mean, I think Nintendo has realized that you don't need, theoretically,

you don't need little kid brands. You can design games that are fun for both little kids and for adults. And Kirby Forgotten Land is the like, epitome of that, as honestly as Donkey Kong, Bonanza. Yeah. Like perfect example. So I don't think they need to like silo,

oh, this game needs to be so easy that babies can play it, which I think is pretty much what the latest Yoshi games have been. They've been like very approachable, very cute and like amazingly like art designed, but very, very simple. So I guess the question I would have for you is like, would you consider like another Yoshi's Crafted world,

like a triple A on the level of Donkey Kong? No, I don't think so. I think it would need to be a big game. And you know, you talked about this, that they wanna have different levels of budgets for different projects, because that's the sustainable way of doing things. I think Yoshi, maybe more than any franchise is trapped in

that weird liminal space. And that it is not doomed like F-Zero or we're going to talk about pilot wings. But also by not being doomed, it has no chance of a comeback. It's doing just well enough that they will continue to make these games that are still targeting little kids because they're not getting the support to be a game for everybody a multi quadrant game or whatever you'd want to call it I would put like a big budget the all the only thing and this would be the most Nintendo thing to do so it makes my the percentage increase quite a bit here. Nintendo releasing Donkey Kong Bonanza from the Mario Odyssey team. Five years pass.

I'm like, wait, are we ever gonna get Mario Odyssey 2? And like, we hurried you. New Yoshi's Island 2 Odyssey. We're doing it. And it's like, the next Mario game is actually a Yoshi's Island game. In the same way that the original Yoshi's Island game was indeed a Mario Brothers 4. 100%.

Whatever it was. And that feels so Nintendo that the Switch 2 would never get a true Mario game and that we would get a Donkey Kong game and a Yoshi's Island game. Yeah. That feels right in some really twisted way. I mean, the interesting thing about Donkey Kong is it's a reminder that they, if they don't have like a drastically new idea,

Oh yeah. they kind of just won't do it. So obviously in Super Mario Odyssey, the drastically new idea, you were like transforming into different creatures using the hat and whatever. And that was like a pretty drastic idea. Donkey Kong, you were destroying the environments

in ways we've never seen previously. I don't see them doing, hey, here's Super Mario Odyssey, but more levels. The only time that I can remember them really doing that was with Galaxy 2. But I think it's been too long since Mario Odyssey came out for them to just like, here's Mario Odyssey with new levels. I think they would need a pretty substantially different

mechanic to justify the return of Mario to like a big new game. Yeah, I think that's right. Well, so then where does that put the percentage for you for Yoshi? For like a big Yoshi game? I think if you're not counting those side scrolling games very low, I would put it at like 10 or 15%

because I think that's how it's gonna manifest. It's like, Yoshi will be like on off years when they're not doing either a big 3D Mario game or or like a Mario wonder for example like Yoshi will get slotted in as like their 2D platforming solution that's my guess. I agree with that. Let's I'm going to bash some of these together. Wario Star Fox.

Do you see either of those games? There will be a Wario Wario where Fox. Do you see either of those games? There will be a Wario... WarioWare equivalent game. I guarantee it. No question about it. It'll have online play, whatever it is. As much as I'm dying for, like... While I was playing Donkey Kong, I was like, this maybe should have been a Wario game because Wario loves gold and...

Uh, breaking shit. So I think it kind of dashed those hopes. I don't think he's going to star in like a big AAA game, but there will be another Wario weird game. So if we're saying what are the odds of a AAA, I would put it at 2%. Very, very low. Very low. Yes.

With Star Fox, if I could merge these together, I have Star Fox, Kid Icarus, and F-Zero. If you, if I could do, it's not a reverse parlay, I don't know how you'd describe this, but if you could say, hey, one of those games is going to get turned into a major third-person open world franchise that is like Nintendo's version of a third-person action game. I would 100% believe that. Mostly because they've tried to do it at different times with, I think, all of them. And it feels like a natural fit.

All of them have these cool worlds that you want to be in. They have great characters. But the core games themselves have aged poorly. You know, F-Zero still somewhat holds up. Star Fox, the original thing is not great. I mean, they barely run, so yeah. Yeah.

Kid Icarus, the original game, that's not spoken of. But they are great IPs that they, you know they seem to return to every 15 or so years. So I don't think any of them individually have much of a chance, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them somehow popped out during this period. I'll tell you what I want, is like a space exploration Star Fox game where you're like going from planet to planet and like moving, like you're like a space trader but you're

Star Fox. No Man's Sky. Yeah, like a No Man's Sky thing with Star Fox. Hey, I wouldn't mind it. Speaking of zipping around Pilotwings and Wave Race, are those sorts of games. Do you think we'll ever get the, I don't even know what to call these oddities of the Nintendo. I mean, Wave Race, no, I'll just say right here,

I'll be direct and say 1% chance of Wave Race. Because who knows what the future, but very, very, very unlike, it's too obvious, it's too limited. You're just like, oh, it's a jet ski game. Like, I don't think there's a lot of interest in that, something that's that limited. 1080 degrees snowboarding didn't even make our list.

And it is in that same, that same pool. Pilotwings, maybe. I could see a pilot, I could see another piloting games. I think I could see another pilot wings game. I think the last one was on 3DS, I believe. I like those games a lot. And I think they are again, a good demonstration of system power.

And it allows Nintendo to make like smaller experiences that aren't like a full on game. And then you sort of just cobble them all together. But like a big open world pilot wings game in the style of like forza horizon be fucking awesome Yeah, that'd be great. I put it at like 10 10% Yeah, yeah, I mean I I think the lesson from this exercise is There's no way of ever knowing what Nintendo will do. It's so completely unpredictable and there is no consistency or rhyme or reason to them doing these things.

I mean, I even with, I remember before Tears of the Kingdom was announced, I had no idea if they would give that type of Zelda another shot despite it being the most successful game imaginable. And I still don't like that. I don't know what the next Zelda looks like. I think it'll be not a direct like it won't be in the same environment, but I think it'll be in the same spirit. Yeah, I mean, that's the other side of the coin for everything that we just talked about too is as they are figuring out different budgets, I am curious what gets shrunken down, what we get really small versions of. Like do we get a wave raise 99?

Do we get these things that are kind of meant to humor you that are the one-off baubles? I don't know. I'm very curious. that are the you know one-off baubles I Know I'm very curious. I have a feeling that they have a lot of weird stuff Coming and even before the end of the year If I feel like they have not Put all their hands or all the cards on the table just yet. Yeah, I think so, too Do we have some reader mail? We have a few things.

We had this letter, this one came from James. This is in reference to PP Strelo, which we talked about last week. This is wild. Y'all are covering a game in the style of a GBA Zelda. And I was just coming here to recommend Master Key, a one-bit graphics, but plays like a GBA Zelda. If it had been on handheld 20 years ago, it would have been my favorite game, absolutely worth your time.

I have not played this, but it looks fucking dope. The visuals are killer. Yeah. Yeah, I'll make sure that we include that in the newsletter because I am definitely digging it. It's also 40% off on Steam right now. I mean, it only cost 12 bucks normally and cost seven bucks now. But yeah, this looks cool. I also love that only one person I know owns this game and it is Chris Grant, Polygon founder and a longtime nerd.

That's pretty awesome. What else do we got in the mailbag? We got another letter. This one comes from Connor. Y'all should check out Battle Train, the second train-based roguelite deck building game of the year. It has neat track laying mechanics and a fun TV game show vibe. This seems like Justin Fodder to me, if I had to guess. But I know Griffin was really getting into Monster Train 2 as well.

Last letter, this one comes from Keaton, and I will preemptively apologize. Keaton writes, Russ called Kujo an innocent and lovable dog who contracted rabies from a bat, an asshole. That's true, I did, and I apologize. It's not Kujo's fault that he has rabies from a bat an asshole that's true I did and I apologize it's not Kujo's fault that he has rabies he seems very nice otherwise he just has rabies so I I'm sorry memory of Kujo I'm sorry Stephen King you're great okay honorable

mentions before you wrap up. I Yesterday Drove up to Los Angeles into the Vista theater one of I believe the many theaters now owned by Quentin Tarantino in Los Angeles and I saw kill Bill the whole bloody affair, which I had never actually seen which do you know about this? I mean, it's just I mean, I assume it's both movies it's a cut that brings the two movies together and there's like some changes. For example, the the crazy 88 fight sequence isn't in black and white. It's just in color. Oh, interesting.

A few a few changes. Did he make the cut? Yeah, it's his. He made the cut. And then the version that I saw was the same Reels that he showed it can film festival. So it had the French subtitles No on the bottom of honey. Very yeah, very silly. Yeah But hey, what a great movie And what a great movie when watched as a single movie.

I remember like more or less liking both of them when they came out, but it not being my favorite stuff. And this time it really, really worked for me. And it really does feel like just one humongous movie, more so than I expected it to, which I should have known. But it is playing, if you live in Southern California, it is playing at the Vista Theater, I think for the rest of the month, twice a day. It's like four, four hours? Four and a half hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow. But it's great. And the theater is gorgeous. It's like a really classic old school Los Angeles theater. But they've basically ripped out every other row. So there's just a lot of space between the seats now. So it feels way more comfortable and not so claustrophobic, like some of the older houses do. Wow.

Yeah, that sounds cool. I mean, I love both of those movies for different reasons. So it is funny. I mean, I guess I, I respect it. They just show his movies at that and the new Beverly just nonstop. I mean, like, yeah, if you, if you own it, you know, why, why wouldn't you? But you, well, and I also think his movies like our good fodder for you know Midnight screenings and things like that. It's very easy. I don't I don't think it's Although certainly part partially soft promotion. I'm sure the tickets sell. Oh, I mean this was a 1230 in the afternoon

Showing and it was packed. I mean, like completely sold out. How about you? What you got going? I finished Murderbot, which I thought was great. I know Griffin talked about it recently. I thought they just did a really good job of telling a very focused story. I don't know about the source material,

like where it goes from here and whether it's like a individual contained stories for each season or whether there's some continuity there, but I thought it was just really smart and really enjoyable and like, I mean, very gory, but also like a light watch, which I also appreciated. So check that out.

Nice, I really enjoyed that. I think, yeah, it's quite good. I think that's it. Wanted to thank some people. Oh, I have some news real quick. I'm no longer working at Polygon. Just plant aware. I mentioned it on my blue sky. So just letting you all know,

I mean, it doesn't really impact this show at all. Obviously this is a fully independent thing, but I have departed polygon. I am the last of the besties to do so. So we are now formally divorced of polygon, but there are still some lovely people that are still working there. So please be nice to them and also a great time to mention that we have a Patreon. Yeah. and also- And a great time to mention that we have a Patreon. Yeah, also-

For the resties and the resties. And if you enjoyed this episode, let me tell you, there's a lot more where this comes from over at the Patreon. Oh my God, so much more. We've got just tons of content. People who sign up now get like 55 episodes, I think. Yeah.

I mean, I'd- So much. Yeah, I don't wanna diminish the support of the previous people that have signed up because you made those 55 episodes happen. But if you have been late to the party, you're like, maybe I'll wait and see. You have now waited and seen, and now you have literally probably 80 to 90 hours

of content waiting for you to absorb if that is something you wanna do. So nice. If you have, you want us in your ears non-stop so you can do that over at the Patreon which is patreon.com slash the besties. We have a few new members to call out Trampoline Tales, we have Feltis, we have Michael and we have Bill, thank you to our Patreon members, we love you. You're great. great next week boys will be back Griffin and Justin will be back and I'm sure they'll talk about Donkey Kong some more I know

y'all probably want to hear what they have to say I actually have no idea what they think of this game this was not a game that I discussed with them prior so I don't know if they liked it or hated it so that'll be interesting the the focus of the game that week will be ninja Gaiden Ragebound, which is the 2D, I think, throwback style Ninja Gaiden game. And I believe that's coming from the developers of Blasphemous. Yes, not to be confused with the Shinobi update that we've covered on the resties and that will be officially releasing in a few months too. We are in an embarrassment of ninja

riches right now. Drowning in ninjas, I love to see it. Well I think that's gonna do it. Thank you Chris Plant for joining me with this very special episode. Thank you to everyone at home. This has been the besties. Where the best, no. Good try. This has been the besties. Where the besties. Shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game?

I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. You go ahead, no, you go ahead, you got it. This has been the besties because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game? Oh, banana! best game... OMANANA! Besties!