The Big Flop - American Airlines' Ultimate Travel Scam with Katie Boyle and Erin Jackson | 95

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

What happens when you give two men unlimited first-class flights for life? American Airlines found out the hard way when their "brilliant" cash-grab turned into a multi-million dollar nightmare, complete with impromptu Paris lunch dates, suspicious companion passes, and an airline determined to ground frequent flyers forever.Katie Boyle (The Shift, I'll Do It Myself) and Erin Jackson (Grudgery, The Upshaws)join Misha for a first class conversation about American Airlines AirpassBe the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to The Big Flop on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-big-flop/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Before we dive into today's tale of catastrophe, I have to tell you about Wondery+. If you're someone who craves the juicy details behind the biggest flops, Wondery+, is exactly what you need. Add free episodes and early access to new stories that will take you even deeper into the world of business blunders. Trust me, it's a game changer. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcast. Oh besties, is there any greater fantasy than flying first class up in the skies, bopping champagne and just living your best life. Well, not for two former American Airlines Airpass users who paid a few hundred grand

for what they believed would be a lifetime of free first class flights. Y'all, buckle up. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. $125,000 and this card entitles you for the rest of your life. Me and somebody else. You and someone else can fly for free anywhere. Security agents cornered them at airports, revoked their passes

and told them they would never fly on American Airlines again. Other travelers like them were costing the airline more than $1 million a year. Las Vegas excitement into the palm of your hand. Take your seat at Premium Blackjack Pro, where strategy meets top-tier gameplay. Drop in on the exciting Sugar Rush and Crazy Time slot games, or play the dazzling MGM Grand Emerald Nights, a slot experience that captures the magic of MGM. With so many games, it's time to make your move. Download the app and visit BedMGM Ontario today to experience the next level of gaming. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only.

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A message from the City of Toronto. From Wondery and Atwill Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar, and I believe I can fly. Woo! At your bestie Misha. And on our show today, we have a comedian, a friend,

and a writer. It's Erin Jackson. Hey, bestie. Oh, hey. Hey. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Me too. Also joining Erin is a comedian and host of The Shift Podcast. It's Katie Boyle. The crowd goes wild. Thanks for having me. So, okay, I have a question before we jump into American Airlines. If you could fly anywhere, first class, completely free,

where would you go? Probably Sydney. Ooh, nice. That's a really good one. I love Sydney. Bali? Yes, me too. I used to sing on cruise ships. I love Sydney. Bali? Yes, me too!

I used to sing on cruise ships. I've traveled all over the world. But I never got to Bali and the ships go there all the time. So I have like severe FOMO. So that was like my first thought as well. Oh my goodness, I was a ship comedian too. Yes, yeah. I've been on a ship and I didn't like it. I don't like boats. No? We won't be on boats today. We're going to be in the air for this episode. So no worries

there because today we are talking about American Airlines Air Pass. Now the Air Pass debuted back in 1981 with a truly unhinged promotional offer. First class flights anywhere for the rest of your life. So the Airpass was supposed to raise a bunch of cash for the airline but there was one thing the company didn't count on and that was two guys who would squeeze every last drop of juice out of the Airpass system. I'm not kidding one of these guys took a flight just to go get a sandwich. One of these guys took a flight just to go get a sandwich. So these two Airpass power users wound up costing the airline more than they bargained for to the tune of millions of dollars. So our story starts with the brains behind Airpass, Robert Crandall.

And because Crandall is distractingly silly, today we'll just call him Bob. So let's take a look at a photo of Bob. Can you describe him for the listeners only? He does not look like he knows he's making a huge mistake. No, he doesn't. He's so happy. It's like the first ever selfie. Yeah, I was just talking to our producer before the show.

I feel like all men from this era look like they're on a commercial. Absolutely. Bob was born in 1935, and while growing up, he moves around a lot because of his dad's work as an insurance salesman. And when I say Bob moves around a lot, I mean it. Like, a lot.

Over the course of 12 years, he goes to 14 different schools. So Bob puts himself through college, then business school, and after graduating, he bops around between a bunch of random corporate jobs until 1973 when he finally lands in an industry he really loves, the airline industry. Bob starts working at American Airlines in 1973 as the Senior Vice President of Finance. Now, let me give everyone a moment to catch their breath because I know there's nothing more exciting than hearing the words, Senior Vice President of Finance, right? But good for Bob, huh?

Yeah, Bob. Good for trying new things. I'm sure he didn't have a lot of friends if he was always moving. So you know, he was making something of himself. He actually does some unprecedented stuff when he gets to American Airlines. And as a result, in 1980, Bob gets a major promotion. He becomes president of the whole company. Oh, wow.

Go ahead, Pa. Rags to riches. Dad was a traveling insurance door to door salesman and now he's the president of American Airlines. Though, I will say, at this point in her history, it's just a medium-sized airline and mostly just flu domestic. Now, as the new president of the company, Bob wants to take the American into the big leagues.

But there's a problem. American Airlines was in serious financial trouble. By 1980, they're almost $80 million in debt, which is like $300 million adjusted for inflation. Same. Same. Can relate. Yep. So, if Bob's going to turn things around and expand the company, American Airlines is going to need money.

Lots of it, pronto. So the first thing Bob does is try to find ways to save money. Okay, Katie, I have a question. If you were big airline president exec, how would you cut costs to save money? I don't know. There's a reason why I would never be a big exec. That's why I host a podcast. I tried to be a beer salesperson, but I got fired because I couldn't sell the beer.

Because every time I would go in, people would be like, that's way too expensive for pale ale. And I'd be like, you're so right. Honestly, you should not buy this. I'm embarrassed to even be asking. Yeah. So I'd be like free flights for everybody. I'm a socialist even be asking. So I'd be like free flights for everybody, you know, I'm a socialist, I think. I love it. Maybe they could cut back on the three course meals they used to give everybody in the 70s

on the planes, right? Right. Well, Bob's ideas for cutting costs, they aren't just the standard things that you'd expect. He gets creative with it. Like one idea he has is to replace a security guard at one American Airlines building with a guard dog. But then he decides that the dog is too expensive. So he replaces the dog with a recording of a parking dog. Wow. So he's a little

kooky, but that's okay. We love Bob for that. Aaron, kind of on the same train of thought you had, another one of Bob's penny pitching ideas was so simple it was actually brilliant. He has the company remove one single solitary olive from all of the salads served as part of the in-flight meals. Now we might be thinking okay, one olive, like how much money could that possibly save? But it turns out those little olives were adding up and subtracting one of those olives saves the company a yearly $40,000. Get rid of all the olives, so why just one? Yeah, all of them.

Most people don't even eat them. Get rid of all of them. But you know, cutting cost, it wasn't enough. Bob knows that American Airlines needs cash flow. And ordinarily, when a company needs a lot of extra cash, they just go borrow it from a bank, right? But at the time, interest rates were skyrocketing. So taking out a loan is going to be more pricey than American could afford.

And that's where Robert comes up with an idea that will allow them to just get money from their loyal customers. So Robert's idea is this, a lifetime pass that will allow you to travel first class on American airlines as much as you want, wherever you want. So how does the idea of a lifetime pass sound to you?

You sound like a sucker to come up with that. Man, that sounds amazing. I would take that. I would save up all my money so I can go anywhere for the rest of my life. You sound like a sucker to come up with that. Man, that sounds amazing. I would take it. I would take that. Yeah. I would save up all my money so I can go anywhere for the rest of my life. You could have all my money. I wouldn't do it because I don't trust anything. I'm like, no, I don't like anything.

That's for free as well. I'm just like, ah, don't trust it. I feel like if you travel long distances, this would be worth it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know? True. I always go basic. I'm very like, I just don't like spending

my money on stuff that I don't feel like we need or whatever. So I was headlining this place and the opener came with me. I also booked a hotel that was like murder hotel. I didn't think it would be, it was like 200 for the hotel for a night. There was like some sort of something on the wall. They didn't give us proper sheets. The opener was just like, this is crazy. And then she was like, where are we on the flight to Vegas? I go just like basic economy. And she took my phone. She put her credit card in and she upgraded herself. So when we got on the plane, the opener was sitting up top and the headliner was sitting in the back of the plane. She

was just so traumatized from the hotel. She was like, I need comfort. I need some a little bit of comfort. Katie's like, I'm just doing it for the plot at this point. Like murder hotel. That's so fun. 20 years ago, on July 7th, 2005, the 7-7 bombings rocked London. My first memory was of flying through the air. The use of suicide as a means of attack, that was something which we never saw.

I'm Thomas Small, the co-host of Conflicted, a podcast about radical Islam. In this special documentary series, we'll tell you the story of 7-7, as you've never heard it before, from the inside. And to tell that story, I've got some help from my old friend and the co-host of Conflicted, ex-Al-Qaeda terrorist turned MI6 spy, Eamon Dean. I actually encountered three of the perpetrators of 7-7 in late 2002. Binge all episodes of 7-7 The Inside Story exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondry+. Start your free trial of Wondry+, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the Wondry app. Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17-year-old cradles her newborn son in her arms.

They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me. Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families ship their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes and force them to secretly place their babies for adoption. In hidden corners across America, it's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me. The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern evangelical right flying American back in the day. So, let's take a look at an American Airlines commercial from 1983 to get a sense of what

it was like flying American back in the day. The clip is fancied with men in three-piece suits and women with that famous Princess Diana haircut. It's giving money, honey. Can't fly in first class to New York? Try American Airlines Business Class. Free drinks, headsets, added leggram and more at a very comfortable price. First class idea.

So how we feel? Are you excited to fly? I am. I want to hear how much. That's like a great deal. Like the first thing in that commercial that caught my eye though was like the cloth seats. Like remember back in like cars too, just like everything was cloth and you just, all that cigarette smoke smell just stuck to it. Uh, I'm old enough that I remember ashtrays on planes.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, crazy times. Very different from today. That, that probably smelled great, and just sitting in cross-country sweat, uh, embedded into the cloth. But Bob's not in charge of the seats. He's in charge of the prices. So the key question for Bob is how much should a pass that gives you unlimited air travel cost? After all, if it's too low, the company will wind up losing money on them.

But if it's too high, nobody's going to buy one. Right. Okay, Erin, how much would you pay for this pass? For the rest of my life, anywhere I wanted to go first class in the 80s, I mean, I'd have paid eight grand. Wow. That's my guess. I have no idea.

I'm sure it was more than that. Bob decides that the pass should cost $250,000. Oh,000. Oh, okay. So yeah, I was way off. I meant, I meant, I meant, that's what I would have paid. That was the down payment. I was wondering if it was a bad deal. That's why I was guessing that it was really, really,

really bad. So that's where my eight grand came from, but that makes more sense. And I would never have been able to participate in this program. Yeah, not very many people could. I wouldn't be able to afford to go to the places like, right, where you can just be like sleeping on the beach. Right.

So this was for one person $250,000 was for one person for an extra 150. You could also have the option to get a free ticket for anyone you want to travel with you, a companion pass. You also get access to the ultra fancy American Airlines lounge and you still get frequent flyer miles. But considering that this is a lifetime pass, do you think that he landed on the right price? Well, that sounds like exclusive and that it would make money. I mean, because I was thinking it was like going to be something that was like, all you can eat buffet bad. Like, because that's a bad, you know what I mean? Like, that's a bad deal.

Yeah, red lobster, all you can eat shrimp, bad. Right, right. Okay. Wow. Yeah, so you were asking about the price of a trip. So at this time, a round trip domestic ticket would set you back about $175. Okay. So that means you'd have to take over 1400 flights before you

start making your money back. That's a lot of flights. But Bob's gamble is basically that anyone who buys an air pass will wind up doing way less than that amount of flying or at the very least, if air pass holders do wind up using more than 250 grand worth of air travel, that extra amount will still cost American less than paying interest on a very substantial loan. Best case scenario for Bob, someone buys an air pass and then immediately develops a fear of flying. Never uses it. Yeah, or passes away. Right.

I'd be afraid that they'd like put a hitch job on you. I know. Bob also assumes that these are primarily going to be bought by businesses. It would certainly make sense for companies with employees who travel a lot to get this. He's thinking that it's mostly going to be used for business trips. After all, the average person doesn't

have an extra quarter of a million dollars lying around. Either way, the Air Pass debuts in 1981. And for the first few years it seems like the program is working exactly as Bob intended. The people who are buying Air Passes are elite customers like legendary baseball player Willie Mays gets one, as does Michael Dell of Dell Computers, and Mark Cuban who calls it one of the best purchases he's ever made. It's always Mark Cuban. The Airpass is bringing in some badly needed money, and between that crucial cash infusion

and Bob's shrewd management, over the next decade, American Airlines is able to expand in huge ways. Not only does American finally start flying all over the world, they also become one of the biggest airlines in the world. And they go from being almost 80 million in the red to making profits of over $20 billion. Okay, Bob.

They didn't bring in 20 billion from this AirPass, it's just they gave them the opportunity to just keep expanding the business, which was, I mean, that's what he wanted. But just a few short years after Airpass debuts, two people joined the program who are going to make American Airlines seriously regret that they ever introduced it in the first place.

Was it Trump? It was not, no. It wasn't Trump. Nope, they were just random guys. So the first person who winds up making Bob and American Airlines rue the day they ever created the Airpass is Chicago investment banker Steve Rothstein, who gets into the program in 1987.

He already flies a ton, so American Airlines actually reaches out to him to see if he wants to buy an Airpass. Big mistake. Steve thinks this Airpass sounds like a pretty sweet deal, maybe an even better deal than the company realizes, so he drops $383,000 on the pass plus a companion ticket. That's over a million bucks adjusted for inflation, by the way. And then in 1989, in Texas, another person at the center of our story also buys an air pass with a companion

ticket. The man's name is, get ready for this, Jacques Vroom. I swear, that's his real name, I'm not making that up. Now Jacques works as a mail order catalog consultant, whatever the heck that is, which has me wondering how can he afford an Airpass on a mail order catalog consultant's salary? Well, Jacques thinks that Airpass is such a great deal, he takes out a loan to buy one. So, you know he's planning to get his money's worth. Wow. I know. I would never take out a $300-and-something-thousand thousand dollar loan for an airline ticket? I won't even take it out for a house.

No, and Jacques had a side hustle, there's no way. Yeah. Yeah. How did Jacques get a $300,000 loan as the Sears catalog guy? I don't know what that means, but I don't know. Ooh, maybe he needed it to like sell his drugs. And he was like, I'll just go first class

all around the world. I'll just go first class all around the world. I'll just go first class. And they didn't have sniffer dogs back then, they just had recordings of barking. Just recordings of barking. So he could get you with all of his coke. Well Steven Jock take the unlimited part of unlimited free travel extremely seriously. They make sure they get the most out of those air passes. Now, some people fly because of their jobs. These guys fly like it is their job.

Over the next 25 years, Steve racks up almost 40 million miles. That's over a million and a half miles per year. And he books over 10,000 flights. That's 400 flights per year, which means some days he was taking multiple flights. That's crazy. That's crazy. And Jacques puts up similar, but if you're keeping score, slightly better stats. He also hits almost 40 million miles in just 23 years. Now, I don't know about you, but at a certain point, I'm just not sure that I'd want to spend that much time in an airplane, even in first class. Were they battling each other?

They didn't even know each other. Oh, okay. I thought maybe they were they trying to go for the Guinness against each other? What is going on? Two random rich guys. I'm surprised they didn't get blood clots. Or something. And back then, there probably wasn't lines the way there is now. There wasn't like TSA and all of that. So it's probably just as if going to get the train. Yeah, just going

right through and hopping on. Absolutely. When did he sell catalog? There was no internet. Like he was just always flying. I'm just, I'm very curious. So in addition to using his pass to be the bareman own best dad ever, Jacques also isn't shy about popping over to Europe for a quick lunch date with a pal. I mean, when you've got an air pass, heading to Paris for a meal is as easy as hitting up the salad spot just down the road. So Jacques and Steve are flying so much, flight attendants even start recognizing them and having their in-flight meal preferences memorized. It's like a way more expensive version of making friends with the barista at your local coffee shop. And Steve flies so much that he and Bob even cross paths at one point when they both wind

up on the same Concorde flight. And Steve takes this opportunity to tell Bob how much he loves the AirPass program. But at this point, we assume that Bob has no idea how much Steve is costing him in American Airlines. Otherwise, he might have been just like, what are you doing? Cool it. But yes, all this travel that Jacque and Steve are doing is starting to add up and it's really costing American Airlines. And though they might be the two most prolific AirPass users, they're surely not the only ones putting the hurt to American Airlines bottom line. But only 66 people have gotten into the program.

That's it. 66. And those 66 people are costing American way more than they expected. I'm, we're talking millions of dollars. Like, for example, one person who bought an air pass makes back his 125 grand in just three and a half weeks with 16 round trip flights to London. three and a half weeks with 16 round trip flights to London. Jesus. Wow. And then he has the rest of his life to just be like eating into American's bottom line.

So after almost a decade of the Airpass program, American finally gets around to taking a look at how it's affecting their bottom line and realizes we've made a huge mistake. The Airpass is costing them way more than it's bringing in at this point. Bob himself would later admit, quote, the public is way smarter than any corporation. People immediately figured out we'd made a mistake pricing wise. So, okay, if you're American Airlines, what do you do to stop the Airpass from losing you so much money? Blackout days? But I don't know.

I don't know what I would do. They're like, we're going to start charging for the olives. You can fly for free, but the food's not. You're going to start paying for that. Well, Bob and American have noticed that the Air Pass is costing the company more than expected, but they aren't going to take the passes away from folks who already have them. And for some reason, they don't want to just end the program either, not end it completely anyway. So what do they do?

Well, first, they think that maybe the solution is to raise the price of an AirPass. Seems pretty reasonable. In 1990, they jack up the price of an AirPass to the equivalent of almost $1.5 million 2025. But they realize, oops, still not enough to offset the cost of the program. So just three years later, they raised the price to over $2 million in today's money. Now we're getting crazy. $2 million for unlimited air travel. That sounds too crazy. If you have $2 million, you have a jet, right? If you have $2 million, you have a jet. Right? Yeah. If you have $2 million, like you don't care. The cost of air travel is not your

issue. That's not the issue. I know that seems really crazy to me. Did any other airline do this? I mean, did they not notice that nobody else thought this was a good idea? The other ones were like, no, no. But even $2 million was not enough. And in 1994, they decide, you know what, enough is enough. They've bit off way more than they could chew with this program. And they end the sale of unlimited air passes. And not long after the unlimited air pass leaves American Airlines, so does Robert. He retires in 1998. However, anyone who already has an air pass gets to keep it. So Jacques and Steve and those 64 other lucky people are still going to be costing American major bucks.

That's why we're paying for everything. It's for these two. Somebody's got to end Jacques and Steve. Somebody's got to go after him. If either of you are fans of this show, we are coming for you. We acting bad, bad, bad, bad. We ain't trying to hurt nobody. For decades, he was untouchable. I'm going from Harlem to Hollywood. But now, it's all coming undone.

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Now, those unlimited Air Pass members, they get to keep flying as much as they want and manage to fly under the radar, pun definitely intended, for almost another decade. But then, in 2007, everything changes. In 2007, American Airlines hit some financial turbulence, shall we say. The company once again needs to find a way to save cash, and some people have suggested that as a result, American decided they needed to find a way to stop the bleeding of money because of Airpass once and for all. Enter Bridget Cade. A woman to the rescue, who would have guessed?

Bridget's been with American Airlines since 1990, and by 2007 she's worked her way up to a gig with the company's revenue integrity team. Now, if American suspects that someone's been trying to pull a fast one on the airline, Bridget's revenue integrity team gets sent in to investigate. And so, Bridget's given a mission. Figure out if Steve and Jacques are misusing their air passes. If those two have been violating the terms of their air pass deal, that would not only explain why they were racking up such big expenses for American, it would also potentially

let American take those passes away. Bridget begins her investigation and the first thing she does is figure out exactly how much money American is losing on Steve and Jacques. So, how much do you think the two of them were costing the company? I'm not guessing any more numbers. I'm clearly bad at this. No, I don't want to play.

Katie, it's on you. I don't know, like billions. I guessed $8,000, Katie. $8,000. No, billions. $8, dollars a year. Steve and Jacques are costing American Airlines over a million dollars a year each. So that's not cute, plus the 64 other people who are using it.

Bridget also discovers that Steve is giving his companion seats away to random people he meets while traveling. Crazy. Now, to be fair, according to the fine print that's actually allowed. However, Steve also makes a ton of reservations and then cancels them. He's racked up more than 2000 cancellations in just one four-year period. So that he's taking seats away that could be sold, you know, and then just canceling last minute, which like begs the questions, why are you doing that? And Bridget's argument is that Steve knows that he's probably not actually going to ever keep those reservations, but he's booking them just to have the option.

Now I was just thinking maybe it's a vendetta against American Airlines, like maybe American Airlines killed his parents. Batman, but like of the plane. Exactly. But Bridget's argument, like he said, is it's... He knows he's probably not ever gonna go, but he wants to keep the option open. And so, Bridget decides that this maybe all adds up to fraud.

Is that a strong argument for you? I make plans all the time that I don't intend on keeping, so I don't know if that's fraud. I do it every weekend. So... You're like, I relate to Steve. No, I can see where he's coming from. Yeah. I don't know, Bridget. And if they don't have it in the contract saying like, now when you get like a Delta credit card, I just only know Delta. So I don't know American Airlines, but Everton

is like, Everton is fine print. Like even when you can use your companion plus who can use it. So like, if it's not in the contract, you know, if you reserve, you have to take it, then they can't really do anything. I know. That's, that's why contracts are getting longer and longer these days. So 2008, Steve is about to get on a flight when he gets served with the notice that his air pass is canceled, allegedly for fraudulent behavior. I mean, when he gets his air pass taken away, he's devastated. After all, this has been a huge part of his life for years. But eventually Steve rallies and decides he's not giving up his air pass without a fight.

And so he decides to sue American to get it back. Meanwhile, while looking into Jacques, Bridget has started to believe that he's been using his companion passes to make money selling his spare tickets to people who want to fly first class at a discount. Now, while you can give away your companion seats, selling them is a big no-no. The only catch is that Bridget has to prove that this is what Jacques has been up to. So what does she do? She sets up an ambush. In 2008, she gets American Airlines security at London Heathrow Airport to pull aside a person they suspect of being one of Jacques's customers. They take him to a back room. They try to get this guy to confess that he's paid Jacques for the ticket, but he doesn't admit to anything. So, failed attempt. But though this first attempt fails,

Bridget, she keeps trying to get a confession out of people connected to Jacques. She uses all kinds of tactics, threatening people's frequent flyer miles, offering free first class tickets in the hopes of getting someone to admit they paid Jacques. She even gets a pilot to fake crash a landing to prompt a deathbed confession. I'm just kidding. I was like, at this point, I'm not surprised. This airline's crazy. It's got to be never.

I was with it. I was like, mew-wah! It's like, oh, thank god I have Delta. OK, but now, how reasonable is it for American to continue to be going after all of these folks in this way? Like, do you think it's getting a little over the top or legit? Yeah, it's getting over the top. And I'm sure it costs money too.

Yeah, it costs all the staff, all of this paying the flight to go down. It just seems like they just keep spending more money. Even with all this pressure and promises of freebies, nobody cracks. And despite not having a confession, in 2008 American Airlines decides, you know what, we're going to go ahead and take away Jacques' air pass and sue him for selling those companion seats, which according to them amounts to fraud. But you better believe that Jacques sues them right back. I don't know, I'm a little bit on his side with this one. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah, you got to show me proof. You got to prove I did it.

And sorry, like I, if we're talking about a corporation or an individual, I'm going to go with the individual. You know? So both Steve and Jacques are now involved in legal battles with American Airlines. And these court cases are complicated and they go on for a very long time. It's not until 2014, after six years and multiple appeals, that Steve's case is finally decided and American wins. What? Nah. Wow. Yeah. Now, unfortunately, we don't know the ins and outs of how the judges came to this conclusion, but...

Ugh. I'm sure they weren't given air passes, because that would be bribery. That would... I'm sure that never happened. I'm sure that's not what happened. And Steve had this pass since the 80s, and now it's just gone. He has to pay for his flights. I feel bad for him, but the experience leaves such a sour taste in his mouth that Steve says, I'd wish I'd never bought the thing.

Which that also is a little over the top because you flew literally everywhere in the world for decades. But what about Jacques? Well, remember how I mentioned that these cases were long? Jacques' suit has been going on for so long that it seems like it still hasn't been fully resolved. Years later, Jacques has not gotten his air pass back, but supposedly reached an out-of-court settlement with American Airlines

and maintains he didn't do anything wrong. In fact, he contends that he was unfairly targeted by American. Jacques has said, quote, "'American was hurting and went after "'the most vulnerable air pass holders to free up cash. People they knew couldn't fight back.

Yeah, why aren't they going after the richie people? The other 64. Yeah, Mark Cuban. He doesn't even need the pass. Get out of here, Mark. Yeah. So because remember Jacques is the one who took out a loan for this air pass. So he very, he could be still paying that loan back and not in a place where he can,

you know, fight back. Maybe he's right. But knowing that they have to go through all of this, how worth it do you think it was for Jacques and Steve to bought those air passes? Like they did get a lot of travel out of them, but then they spend six, seven years in court over them, I'd be like, that's too much of a hassle. Yeah, for the one that took the loan out, that's too much of a hassle. The guy that had the money, he did fine.

He did okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's do a little where are they now? Steve moved to New York where he still works as a trader. He also apparently prefers to fly United these days, which is understandable. Jacques is still living in Texas working as a substitute teacher. So okay, he's probably still paying that long. And the most recent reports indicate that neither of them has gotten their air pass back. American Airlines continued selling

a version of the air pass for a while, though it was very different and way more boring than the original Unlimited version purchased by Stephen Chuck. The new AirPass was kind of like a gift card. You'd put a bunch of money in advance and every time you bought a ticket some of that money would get deducted. To be fair, if you were in the program you would save money on the tickets you bought and you would get some perks but come on, that's so much more boring than unlimited world travel. So after turning it into a complete snooze fest, American finally gave up on the program and stopped selling air passes completely in November of 2022. But even though Stephen Jock never got their air passes back, as of 2018, there were 25 unlimited

air pass holders still out there using them to this day. And those 25 folks are presumably costing American Airlines an arm and a leg every time they fly. Still, American remains one of the US's largest airlines. They should give their companion pass to Jacques and that other lad, right? Yes. That's when you come together. That's when you come together. Yeah. Oh, that'd be so cute.

So here on The Big Flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high. So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from American Airlines' decision to do this air pass and unlimited world travel? I'm sure there are a lot of people in their lives that got to share time with their, with Jacques and Steve because they had this and they got opportunities to see the world. There we go. And people not admitting to getting the cheap tickets. That's just the best that people will come together against a corporation. Love that. Yeah. Absolutely. That part.

There were no snitches. There were no snitches. We love that. Well, now that you both know about the American Airlines Air Pass, which was supposed to help the airline turn a major profit, but wound up costing it millions, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? I would say this is probably a mega flop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm jealous I wasn't rich in the 80s. I know.

We could still be going everywhere our little hearts desired. Yeah, what about you, Katie? Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's still like a big airline. Like they're still working. So it obviously didn't affect them so much that they're not an airline anymore. They're still like one of the major airlines here. Right. That's true. That's true. Still kicking. Still a mega flop, but also they never they're doing grand.

Well, thank you so much to our first class guests, Katie Boyle and Aaron Jackson for joining us here on The Big Flop. And of course, thanks to all of you for listening and watching. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating or review or subscribe. And we'll be back next week with another flop. This famous actor and Scientologist thought he could produce and star in a sci-fi movie better than the Star Wars movies. It's John Travolta's Battlefield Earth.

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